One of the things about solar cells is that they are much more efficient when it is cold vs hot even though there is usually more sun when it is hot. The 3 inches that a rigid solar panel sits above the roof allow air to circulate underneath and cool them. You have just taught me that this is more more than a efficiency issue but is even more of a safety issue. Thanks for showing this because I have never seen this before. We all live and learn and it is so helpful when you share experience like this.
Thank goodness I just found this by accident. I'm glad the damage was minimal compared to what it could have been. I think you guys saved a lot of lives w this vid. Thank you!
THAT IS SO SCARY....of all the tips ,hints ,and reviews this is one of the best SAFETY AWARENESS vids Thanks for sharing and certainly glad you and rig are fine . You just proved the roof coating is worth it's weight in gold and made us all aware of hazards of flexible panels thank you for saving a few other souls 😲
Another factor that comes to mind is the tape around all the edges. If there is differential expansion/contraction between the roof and flexible module this could put a lot of mechanical stress on the solar module and more quickly damage them. Without the tape I'd be worried about wind damage. Tricky situation, glad there's no more damage!
The burning can happen if you don't fuse between panels if you are connecting them in parallel. The solar panel fails but still has voltage across its positive/negative from the other parallel panels. If they are wired in series you will notice much earlier that there is a failure because your entire array will go offline.
I’m so glad nobody was hurt you were able to get you RV repaired. Thank you so much for sharing this information. We own a Renogy portable solar kit and love it. Safe travels!
Our flexible panels are SunPower and are on many boats canvas roofs on Georgian Bay. Haven't heard of any issues and they have been around for years so I think it depends on what you buy. So glad you weren't hurt. Take care.
You should leave some space channels underneath the flexible panels for airflow to avoid the risk of getting fire. I use 3M Dual Lock Reclosable Fastener SJ3870 250 Black to attach on my roof
I have a 100ah Renogy lithium battery. The thing is a power brick. I installed it, Turned on everything in the RV, turned on the inverter and started to test it. I used a blow dryer on low for about 20 minutes, turned on the TV, turned one all the lights in the coach, turned on the big ceiling vent fan in the bathroom, turned on the stove hood fan and light and fridge, 2 hours later it was registering 96%. I have an old 100 watt flexible solar panel on the roof that only puts out 30 to 50 watts. I turned everything off, and in about 5 minutes the battery was showing 100%. I am sure it was still charging, but I could easily last overnight with regular usage over an overnight stop. No, you cant use the microwave or A/C. I can use a fan and be fine for a night. I am going to upgrade the solar controller to a Renogy 40 amp unit and a 200 watt Renogy rigid panel. I can see boon-docking for a week with no issues. Renogy rocks.
It's a good idea to have each panel being fused, If there is an issue with one panel, it'll blow the fuse & not effect the good remaining panels. Cheap cost for additional peace of mind.
I have been using SunPower flexible solar panels for 7 years, 1200w installation, they are in perfect condition, at the same level as rigid panels with the same years. The panels have been installed on an aluminum frame and brackets, spaced 1.5 inches from the ceiling. The coating of our panels is EFTE, which guarantees resistance to high temperatures much higher than cheap PET. Many manufacturers sell flexible panels such as EFTE being PET. The hot spots suffered by your solar panels is a failure that also occurs in rigid panels, caused by poor construction of the solar panel.
I'm about to put 5 panels on my roof. My friend kept telling me to get flexible and this is the proof that I won't be following that suggestion. Since my roof is rubber I'm going to use aluminum Unistrut on a slight stand off and a bunch of lap sealant into the roof studs. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for posting this. I was also favoring the flex panels after we purchase our RV soon. So sorry that this happened. We will be installing rigid now. Again...thanks!
That was super scary! I'm so glad that the damage wasn't worse and that your furbabies are safe! I had no idea they could catch fire. I guess that goes for the suitcase type which is what we'll be having.
I chose the rigid suitcase type of solar for my small Class C. Main reason was I prefer to camp in National Forest type places where there are more trees. I wanted something I could move around as needed. Plus I was worried about damage from above from all sorts of things. I've been using them for 3 years now and am very happy. Sure glad your situation wasn't worse!
From Will Prowses' Mobile Solar website: "Flexible Solar Panels? Don't Buy them! You have been warned: Every single flex panel on the market is garbage. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this. I have destroyed stacks of these things. The cells crack easily and take out a whole string of cells when the bus bars break. Or they have extreme degradation after a few months of summer. Even the latest "CIGS" panels that I was so excited about, are having delamination problems. Do yourself a favor, and avoid the flex panels. None of them are good." I am very thankful I went rigid instead with my build 2 years ago.
🤔 The solid panels are warrantee’d for 25+ years, they are less expensive than flex panels, they allow cooling air flow + an air gap below the panel, and lastly solid framed panels may be inclined (if so designed) to optimize the incident angle to the sun (increasing efficiency about 30%). Thanks for the valuable OE (Operational Experience). We are very happy for your home and kitties 🐱 🐱 salvation. 👏🙏👍.
Of COURSE the manufacturer says it wasn’t their fault. The fact that there were multiple failures when the panel is called FLEXIBLE but cracks and burns when flexed, is scary. I’m curious if this is common among other flexible manufacturers.
If the inverter has arc fault detection, then the inverter can shut down solar production so the panels don't catch fire. Some inverters can have this enabled or disabled as an option. Basically, arc fault detection can detect if there is sparking in the panel or connections.
This happened to my friend who loves solar panels. He installed them himself. It took over a year to get his RV fixed. Still is a big fan. Others have had this problem which is kept quiet.
ALWAYS see that there is some space between the panel and the RV roof (no matter you use flexible panels or not)...for ventilation...so your mounting of the panels was incorrect ! You may be very lucky that the damage is restricted...
We followed the instructions of the panels. They are made to be directly applied. We had air gaps in the flexible panel installation before and they still failed. Flexible panels just not good for RV use.
So glad I have the aluminum framed glass type that allows for air circulation underneath, Have eight 200 watt panels with for 6 years now, with flawless operation on RV, however the MPPT charge controllers all sucked with voltage fluctuation, found small voltage regulators online with heat sinks and adjustable amperage and adjustable voltage and digital readout for only $10 each and utilized two for superb voltage consistency charging and low cost lithium titanate bundled batteries at 13.5 volts each.
GREAT video. We are looking to add solar to our 5th wheel and though about using flexible panel to keep down drag. I had always wondered about the heat buildup and being right on the roof. I think we will go with raised.
100% go with rigid and raised. We haven't noticed a big difference in drag for wind and is well worth the safety and longevity of the panels. Don't forget to shop for Renogy rigid with our link! 😉
Safety and application are Paramount with flexible solar panels. I’m adding several 200 W renogy panels the new style but I’m gonna have a 3/8” air gap running under each one with a drain area for water. Technically they’re not touching the roof and I won’t be ( taping the edges ), air circulation is Paramount using 3M-VHB 62 to hold down. 😎😎😎😎😎
I watched a RUclips video a while back discussing the different Solar Panel types, one what’s the flexible flush mount panels that you have. I believe the examples in the video was on an airstream, but one thing that they made clear, they produce heat, having space between the panels and the roof was critical, not just for heat dissipation, but for panel longevity as well. Heat makes things more brittle, roofs get hail, and heat flexes them too. Watching your installation one thing is clear… YOU NEED ABOUT AN INCH GAP BETWEEN THE ROOF AND THE PANELS. It did NOT look like you had that in your video. Be safe! ❤
@@EatSeeRV - I’m no expert, but the point they made was the air gap was for heat dissipation. If you don’t want the heat transferred to your RV, a gap is needed. I’d consider a little research before assuming their recommendation was correct. Trust but verify is a good motto. Good luck!
Same thinf has happen to my 6month flexible panel but on a small level. 4 dime size. Wasnt sure what or when this happen but panel still works because is has 48 blocking diodes and its on a ladder rack so not on my roof. I think a tree limb may have fallen on it
The rumor is that rigid panels are safer for rv roof applications….might be the reason that the Bplus Mfrs like Leisure changed to rigid panels. Glad you guys were ok.
It is highly recommended that anyone setting up a off grid/vehicle power system that you should invest in a thermal camera. Not just to inspect your solar panels but your electrical connections, batteries and wiring. Inspect at least least every 6 months. In a RV or mobile power station you should check more often. The panels you installed could catch fire in the same way the flex able ones did. All it takes is something falling on them witch is much more likely in a vehicle than a stationary array where you can negate most threats.
I have 4 all power Facilbles panels glued to a rounded roof of my camper van for the last 5 years with no problems. One of my wires broke on one of my panels one time and I able to easily solder the wire back into the little box on top of the panel and that was my felt.
Great information on WHY not to use flex panels on the roof...fortunately my little Airstream Basecamp comes with a solar charging port for the portable panels so that helps along with 180 watts on the roof, factory install
another disadvantage is that its life will be surprisingly shorten when exposing to rains. Mine is foldable CIGS, and it stopped working in few months after working a couple times under rain.
Whoa!!! So glad you’re ok; it could have been much, much worse. I read through all the comments and based on this video and those comments, I’d never use flexible solar panels. Not happening!
For what its worth, here is a quote from DOE "Design flaws, component defects, and faulty installation generally cause solar rooftop fires." This same info is quoted by a company in the UK, I believe in April 22 after a fire was reported as caused by solar panels.
Put XPS / Styrofoam or other insulation directly on the bottom skin of a rigid panel and you will see similar faults - not as immediate, because rigid panels are usually covered by glass on top and more heat resistive silicone on the bottom. However, this will reduce lifetime dramatically. Putting panels directly on an thermal insulated surface is always a bad idea.
Flexible flat mount panels are known to get hot and be inefficient. Ease of application over function and safety. Further, anyway you can cool a panel down and get airflow underneath it is good for the panel and its efficiency. I mounted mine on struts (granted I have a 5th wheel) and they are very secure, less homes, and plenty of airflow without affecting much of the aerodynamics. Glad you guys switch over!
So very sorry that this happened to you as who wants to pay multiple times for technology, but the good news is nobody was hurt and damage to your rig was reparable. Great PSA. Enjoy the Balloon Festival. I love solar & the independence that it offers.
I’ve had 4x 100w flexi panels on roof of my steel boat for the passed 4.5 years in full sun and the only fault I have is they have gone slightly cloudy, not so much as to look off but don’t look like new any more and output hasn’t dropped. PPS mine have been walked on a number of times, usually when one looses balance and this has not degraded the panels. I do think what you pay for panel can effect quality, for me I use them as don’t produce wind noise or can’t get things caught on them. But then my roof is 4mm thick steel, but does get hot enough to rain water to instant steam.
From Ames Description: "Ideal for curved and uneven surfaces. RVs, boats, bus, vans, utilities, golf carts, sewn to heavy duty material such as sun shades" So when they say it isn't their fault, they are 100% wrong. They market them for RVs and therefore if they knew the problem which, obviously they did, they ARE at fault and are financially liable for the damage to your RV and Solar Panels.
Yep. You sir are 100% correct and sadly these two they naively believed every word of Ames story. NO BUSINESS is ever going to willingly admit liability for a fire as that puts them ON THE HOOK for every other event involving their panels.
@@EatSeeRV I was showing photos because I'd love for it to live in my yard. My office guy went to a local RV show this weekend. He needed to see how yours was set up.
Glad I saw your video. I just laid 2 of them on my camper van that I am building. I was hoping to keep a low profile without the panels being noticeable. But, possible fire is not worth it. Would it be worth trying a fire resistant something under the panels?
Are you sure it had nothing to do with the panel quality? Renogy has flexible panels and people swear by them - they look alot tougher then your AIMS.. Or the new CIGS panels that claim hurricane force hail resistance.
WOW!! How Crazy!! I am so glad your furry friends and you guys are okay. We will be purchasing a RV next year and planned on getting solar. I was really leaning toward flat / flexible panels like what you had on your RV. I had no idea they could catch fire like that. Thank you so very much for sharing your story. Thanks Again and Safe Travels.
I'm glad we could help you make a more informed decision. We had no idea this was even a risk when we were choosing! So scary. Congrats on the purchase and wishing you all well. - Liz
I don't like flexible solar panels buy residential rooftop panels they are UL certified. Also, NEC requires arc fault detection over 80V good idea to follow same standards when installing them on an RV even though not required. IMO RV is even worse if you have a fire then a home with the propane, and gasoline. The UL certifed inverters have arc and ground fault detection built in.
We bought the panels but did partner with Renogy for this video. Sorry you felt it was one big ad. We did the best job we could explaining what happened, why, and what we're doing to fix it.
Just 2 minutes in and you probably answer this and I will keep watching. But what did the manufacturer say about this type of mounting? Asking now because I might have to pause video and not come backfor an hour.
The manufacturer says you should adhere it to the roof tightly so no air can get in (tape on the sides isn't enough). But from further research that can cause hot spots since there's no breathability underneath the panel and can cause a fire that way. They simply aren't worth the risk!
@@EatSeeRV Thanks!!!! I thought you used them outside their scope, but you didn't. I was thinking where is the cooling effect, (breathability). These people need put out of business before they kill someone. I hope you pursue a settlement from them!
YIKES glad yall and RV are all okay. I thought you had or were selling that RV ?? It will be MUCH better now. I prefer rigid and elevated (maybe 1.5 inches) panels for the improved air circulation and cooling UNDERNEATH which can yield more energy harvest. Did you consider one or two 200 to 300 Watt individual panels that are around 39 x 64 inches IF your roof space allowed ?? Keep up the good work and videos. John T BSEE,JD Electrical Engineer and 50 year RV owner
Wow, that sucks. It's important to understand that this is a crystalline style flexible solar panel. The kind that are most abundant. They claim they can be bent to 30 degrees and whatnot. There is also another technology for flexible solar panels called CIGS. It's a much better design with longer life solar panels, big flexibility, and more efficient. The crystalline style solar panels are just a bad idea on the top of your RV. But for a mobile style solar system they work very well. Just keep in mind that not all flexible solar panels are built the same.
@@LaurieFloodTeacher our “new” trailer came with one panel on the roof & we use our suitcase when off grid (which we are doing now for about 2 months). Works great - we just go spin it around to face the sun!
Wow, glad I do not have flexible panels on my RV roof. You were lucky that you had the FlexArmor roof that is fire retardant. We loved our couple of days at Balloon Fiesta this year, even with rain and only one mass ascent day. Safe travels.
I have lately been wondering if there's like an anti fire material layer that could be put between panels and a roof, either for houses or RVs? Also, I'm curious... this problem specifically is happening to many people. So is it happening because of the guage of wire being wrong... the panel using concentrators/concentration too much?? or What? There must be a reason that most of the fires are happening at the panels instead of on the wires themselves or at the charge controller... ? If someone uses too low rating of wiring going from panel to charge controller this can be an issue. So can charge controller being too weak, unable to deal with the power, if the battery gets overcharged and its lithium that can be fire too. BUT what these people didn't tell you is that the fault being from different places means the fire and burnage would be in different places. NOT the same place. ... You can also check if the guage of the wire that's carrying your power load from the panels to your system is rated high enough for all the load its carrying. This is important. Like 10 guage wire is built for 30 amps typically. A lot of people are putting more than 30 amps through, which is roughly 4 100 watt panels.
I have a curious question. I have seen that these flexible panels have been melting like this also. But my question is, is the spray armor conductive or non conductive? Curious.
Flexible solar panels aren't the problem, the problem is "flexible" crystalline solar panels, crystalline cells don't tolerate any flexing for very long, your new ones will also be flexing and WILL develop micro fractures due to vibrations. You would be better off with CIGS solar panels, you'll also get more power because they aren't as dependent on perfect sun conditions. Another option is Amorphous Silicon panels, but you'd need to cover a much larger area for the same amount of power.
For the FlexArmor Roof? Sure thing you can see our video here: ruclips.net/video/xBAcvIqFtKc/видео.html Cost is determined by the length of your RV. But the website will give you a free quote based on your specific rig.
This should be entitled, "How to write a commercial" for RUclips. Yeah, it's bad this happened, but the point here is for you to use their link to buy this product.
You guys are so lucky... i do have a serious question... why did the fuses or breakers not trip... that is what they are in the circuit. The arcing should have blown or tripped something... stay safe
photovoltaic/solar thermal technician here: proper terminology is required here. i know we're all in the same page as that they all produce electricity by converting the sun energy. monocrsytalline, polycrsytalline and amorphous are the three types of solar panels. monocrystalline and polycrystalline are the "rigid ones" amorphous is the "flexible panels" monocrystslline are more efficient than polycrystalline cells and can be smaller in size for the same output. polycrystalline are less efficient than monocrystalline solar cells and require a larger surface area for the same output. amorphous require twice as much surface area for the same power output as a monocrystalline, they are flexible and can handle higher temperatures better which to me is an oxymoron. handles temperature but not damage hence the fire. amourphous still has it's function i have some too. FYI Mono and Poly solar panels when on fire still are producing electricity and you can be electrocuted.
Thanks! We're glad all is well too. We had air flow under our last ones and they still failed a year and a half in. So while less fire hazard still not worth the money.
Flexable panels are far frailer than ridged - with a clear plastic insulator to the front and no circulation from the back the heat poured in with no way to get out - failure was inevitable eventually - the only effective solution is ridged panels mounted so air circulates under - I use rec twin peak on my RV and they work flawless - some of the tiled types are even better
Is it alright to cover with epoxy temp resistant covering entire glass to stop of any ingress of moisture water? cost if 550W panel is 100$ cant just throw like that But risk is there for any fire??? Although I connected all 5 panels + 3 slightly damaged in series got 300V + just for experiment But if I coonect permanently on the rooof what dangers can i expect??
Ouch! Two things - you seemed to have a lot of unused roof - yet only installed 3 x 100Watts. Later on - you seem to admit that 300Watts is not enough for all your needs - why didn't you add more PV's or simply try and cover the roof with PV panels. Could have gotten the extra threaded studs installed on the roof quite easily! And - you wired up the three panels in parallel - which suggests you are using a PWM device between PV's and Batteries. I would have though running a number of panels in series (as long as shade is not a problem) and feeding that through an MPPT controller would be more efficient and give you a slightly longer charging period per day. I'd also check that the panels have by-pass diodes - which helps with partial shading and could reduce issues with a bad cell.
300 watts was more than enough for our needs. We had 300 before and never had to turn our generator on. It was that a chassis charger alone was not enough for our needs.
☀ Get $50 off Renogy One products or your monthly subscription with code ONE50 using this link: link.eatseerv.com/renogyone
One of the things about solar cells is that they are much more efficient when it is cold vs hot even though there is usually more sun when it is hot. The 3 inches that a rigid solar panel sits above the roof allow air to circulate underneath and cool them. You have just taught me that this is more more than a efficiency issue but is even more of a safety issue. Thanks for showing this because I have never seen this before. We all live and learn and it is so helpful when you share experience like this.
Thank goodness I just found this by accident. I'm glad the damage was minimal compared to what it could have been. I think you guys saved a lot of lives w this vid. Thank you!
We hope so! It was a scary experience
WOW, you guys were so lucky. Glad the kitties are ok and you still have your RV. Thanks for sharing as I’m sure this will help other RV owners.
Definitely!
THAT IS SO SCARY....of all the tips ,hints ,and reviews this is one of the best SAFETY AWARENESS vids
Thanks for sharing and certainly glad you and rig are fine .
You just proved the roof coating is worth it's weight in gold and made us all aware of hazards of flexible panels thank you for saving a few other souls 😲
No kidding!
Another factor that comes to mind is the tape around all the edges. If there is differential expansion/contraction between the roof and flexible module this could put a lot of mechanical stress on the solar module and more quickly damage them. Without the tape I'd be worried about wind damage. Tricky situation, glad there's no more damage!
Yes glad we upgraded and don't have to worry anymore.
The burning can happen if you don't fuse between panels if you are connecting them in parallel. The solar panel fails but still has voltage across its positive/negative from the other parallel panels. If they are wired in series you will notice much earlier that there is a failure because your entire array will go offline.
I’m so glad nobody was hurt you were able to get you RV repaired. Thank you so much for sharing this information. We own a Renogy portable solar kit and love it. Safe travels!
That's great to hear! Thank you for the well wishes.
Our flexible panels are SunPower and are on many boats canvas roofs on Georgian Bay. Haven't heard of any issues and they have been around for years so I think it depends on what you buy. So glad you weren't hurt. Take care.
Thanks for sharing! We hadn't heard of any fires here either, until we did more digging and found it can happen.
You should leave some space channels underneath the flexible panels for airflow to avoid the risk of getting fire. I use 3M Dual Lock Reclosable Fastener SJ3870 250 Black to attach on my roof
I have a 100ah Renogy lithium battery. The thing is a power brick. I installed it, Turned on everything in the RV, turned on the inverter and started to test it. I used a blow dryer on low for about 20 minutes, turned on the TV, turned one all the lights in the coach, turned on the big ceiling vent fan in the bathroom, turned on the stove hood fan and light and fridge, 2 hours later it was registering 96%. I have an old 100 watt flexible solar panel on the roof that only puts out 30 to 50 watts. I turned everything off, and in about 5 minutes the battery was showing 100%. I am sure it was still charging, but I could easily last overnight with regular usage over an overnight stop. No, you cant use the microwave or A/C. I can use a fan and be fine for a night. I am going to upgrade the solar controller to a Renogy 40 amp unit and a 200 watt Renogy rigid panel. I can see boon-docking for a week with no issues. Renogy rocks.
It's a good idea to have each panel being fused, If there is an issue with one panel, it'll blow the fuse & not effect the good remaining panels. Cheap cost for additional peace of mind.
Thank you so much for sharing this! I was considering using flexible panels when I get my RV next year. Not any more.
I'm glad we could sway you toward rigid and learn from our very scary lesson.
I have been using SunPower flexible solar panels for 7 years, 1200w installation, they are in perfect condition, at the same level as rigid panels with the same years. The panels have been installed on an aluminum frame and brackets, spaced 1.5 inches from the ceiling. The coating of our panels is EFTE, which guarantees resistance to high temperatures much higher than cheap PET. Many manufacturers sell flexible panels such as EFTE being PET. The hot spots suffered by your solar panels is a failure that also occurs in rigid panels, caused by poor construction of the solar panel.
Did you build the frames for the panels? and of course any details. please
Omg 🙀 most definitely a valuable lesson to share. One would think all panels would come with a warning for such.
AGREED! I'm glad we could share and keep this from happening to others. We had no idea this was a potential risk. So scary!
They dont come with a warning for such because that is NOT NORMAL. Those panels were faulty.
I'm about to put 5 panels on my roof. My friend kept telling me to get flexible and this is the proof that I won't be following that suggestion. Since my roof is rubber I'm going to use aluminum Unistrut on a slight stand off and a bunch of lap sealant into the roof studs. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for posting this. I was also favoring the flex panels after we purchase our RV soon. So sorry that this happened. We will be installing rigid now. Again...thanks!
Definitely the safer choice if your roof allows!
That was super scary! I'm so glad that the damage wasn't worse and that your furbabies are safe! I had no idea they could catch fire. I guess that goes for the suitcase type which is what we'll be having.
Us either! I think the suitcase type is less prone to failure, but I still think I'd get a rigid portable suitcase not flexible.
I chose the rigid suitcase type of solar for my small Class C. Main reason was I prefer to camp in National Forest type places where there are more trees. I wanted something I could move around as needed. Plus I was worried about damage from above from all sorts of things. I've been using them for 3 years now and am very happy. Sure glad your situation wasn't worse!
Glad you found something that works for you!
From Will Prowses' Mobile Solar website:
"Flexible Solar Panels? Don't Buy them!
You have been warned:
Every single flex panel on the market is garbage. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this. I have destroyed stacks of these things. The cells crack easily and take out a whole string of cells when the bus bars break. Or they have extreme degradation after a few months of summer. Even the latest "CIGS" panels that I was so excited about, are having delamination problems.
Do yourself a favor, and avoid the flex panels. None of them are good."
I am very thankful I went rigid instead with my build 2 years ago.
🤔
The solid panels are warrantee’d for 25+ years, they are less expensive than flex panels, they allow cooling air flow + an air gap below the panel, and lastly solid framed panels may be inclined (if so designed) to optimize the incident angle to the sun (increasing efficiency about 30%).
Thanks for the valuable OE (Operational Experience). We are very happy for your home and kitties 🐱 🐱 salvation. 👏🙏👍.
We are so glad the result was not worse!! You are right, for us flexible panels are not worth considering for any RV or mobile application.
Definitely! Thank you
Of COURSE the manufacturer says it wasn’t their fault. The fact that there were multiple failures when the panel is called FLEXIBLE but cracks and burns when flexed, is scary. I’m curious if this is common among other flexible manufacturers.
Holy cow. Soooo glad the final outcome was positive. Keep safe and happy.
Us too!
If the inverter has arc fault detection, then the inverter can shut down solar production so the panels don't catch fire. Some inverters can have this enabled or disabled as an option. Basically, arc fault detection can detect if there is sparking in the panel or connections.
Wow, go with solid panels and let them get some air underneath.
This happened to my friend who loves solar panels. He installed them himself. It took over a year to get his RV fixed. Still is a big fan. Others have had this problem which is kept quiet.
ALWAYS see that there is some space between the panel and the RV roof (no matter you use flexible panels or not)...for ventilation...so your mounting of the panels was incorrect ! You may be very lucky that the damage is restricted...
We followed the instructions of the panels. They are made to be directly applied. We had air gaps in the flexible panel installation before and they still failed. Flexible panels just not good for RV use.
So glad I have the aluminum framed glass type that allows for air circulation underneath, Have eight 200 watt panels with for 6 years now, with flawless operation on RV, however the MPPT charge controllers all sucked with voltage fluctuation, found small voltage regulators online with heat sinks and adjustable amperage and adjustable voltage and digital readout for only $10 each and utilized two for superb voltage consistency charging and low cost lithium titanate bundled batteries at 13.5 volts each.
Good tips and glad you have a situation that is safe and works for you!
Okay i know i am wrong but the crispy cats was hilarious 😆😆😆😆 i am sorry...
lol
GREAT video. We are looking to add solar to our 5th wheel and though about using flexible panel to keep down drag. I had always wondered about the heat buildup and being right on the roof. I think we will go with raised.
100% go with rigid and raised. We haven't noticed a big difference in drag for wind and is well worth the safety and longevity of the panels. Don't forget to shop for Renogy rigid with our link! 😉
Safety and application are Paramount with flexible solar panels. I’m adding several 200 W renogy panels the new style but I’m gonna have a 3/8” air gap running under each one with a drain area for water. Technically they’re not touching the roof and I won’t be ( taping the edges ), air circulation is Paramount using 3M-VHB 62 to hold down. 😎😎😎😎😎
0:51 look how wet they are underneath, moisture was getting in and not getting out, moisture and electricity don't mix
Had Solbian flexible panels develop burn spots on my van as well... and bunch of other problems - switching soon to ridgit
This is insane!!! Wow! I am glad you didn't lose your home.
Us too!
I watched a RUclips video a while back discussing the different Solar Panel types, one what’s the flexible flush mount panels that you have. I believe the examples in the video was on an airstream, but one thing that they made clear, they produce heat, having space between the panels and the roof was critical, not just for heat dissipation, but for panel longevity as well. Heat makes things more brittle, roofs get hail, and heat flexes them too. Watching your installation one thing is clear… YOU NEED ABOUT AN INCH GAP BETWEEN THE ROOF AND THE PANELS. It did NOT look like you had that in your video. Be safe! ❤
We had the air gap on our first ones that failed. They actually recommend installing them directly to the roof. We followed their instructions.
@@EatSeeRV - I’m no expert, but the point they made was the air gap was for heat dissipation. If you don’t want the heat transferred to your RV, a gap is needed. I’d consider a little research before assuming their recommendation was correct. Trust but verify is a good motto. Good luck!
This video could save me and others. Thank you, big time.
Absolutely! Wish we didn't have to learn the hard way but hey.
Wow!! So glad you and your family, is safe. But thankyou for showing us this damage.
Same thinf has happen to my 6month flexible panel but on a small level. 4 dime size. Wasnt sure what or when this happen but panel still works because is has 48 blocking diodes and its on a ladder rack so not on my roof. I think a tree limb may have fallen on it
Excellent information, thank you very much for sharing your experience with us.. cordial greetings and continue enjoying your adventures!!
The rumor is that rigid panels are safer for rv roof applications….might be the reason that the Bplus Mfrs like Leisure changed to rigid panels. Glad you guys were ok.
Yes, it may be! I hope manufacturers get rid of this as an option for RVers. It's just not safe!
It is highly recommended that anyone setting up a off grid/vehicle power system that you should invest in a thermal camera. Not just to inspect your solar panels but your electrical connections, batteries and wiring. Inspect at least least every 6 months. In a RV or mobile power station you should check more often. The panels you installed could catch fire in the same way the flex able ones did. All it takes is something falling on them witch is much more likely in a vehicle than a stationary array where you can negate most threats.
I have 4 all power Facilbles panels glued to a rounded roof of my camper van for the last 5 years with no problems. One of my wires broke on one of my panels one time and I able to easily solder the wire back into the little box on top of the panel and that was my felt.
Awesome! Glad to hear it's worked out for you.
Live and learn. Thanks for sharing. Good luck with the new ones.
Great information on WHY not to use flex panels on the roof...fortunately my little Airstream Basecamp comes with a solar charging port for the portable panels so that helps along with 180 watts on the roof, factory install
Just keep an eye on them!
I wondered about those no air underside to cool.
Install fuses inline with the solar panels. This would have prevented the fire.
Glad to hear all is Ok n no more seriously issues happened prayers n May God Bless ya ll again n the new ones 😗😗🙏
I’ve been reading about flex panels. Glad you and kitties are ok.
Us too! I don't think the pro of flexibility or lighter weight is worth the risks. Rigid all the way!
another disadvantage is that its life will be surprisingly shorten when exposing to rains. Mine is foldable CIGS, and it stopped working in few months after working a couple times under rain.
Whoa!!! So glad you’re ok; it could have been much, much worse. I read through all the comments and based on this video and those comments, I’d never use flexible solar panels. Not happening!
For sure couldn't agree more.
they are great for portable fold outs; would never mount to RV or any other surface.
For what its worth, here is a quote from DOE "Design flaws, component defects, and faulty installation generally cause solar rooftop fires." This same info is quoted by a company in the UK, I believe in April 22 after a fire was reported as caused by solar panels.
Put XPS / Styrofoam or other insulation directly on the bottom skin of a rigid panel and you will see similar faults - not as immediate, because rigid panels are usually covered by glass on top and more heat resistive silicone on the bottom. However, this will reduce lifetime dramatically. Putting panels directly on an thermal insulated surface is always a bad idea.
Flexible flat mount panels are known to get hot and be inefficient. Ease of application over function and safety. Further, anyway you can cool a panel down and get airflow underneath it is good for the panel and its efficiency. I mounted mine on struts (granted I have a 5th wheel) and they are very secure, less homes, and plenty of airflow without affecting much of the aerodynamics. Glad you guys switch over!
Glad they're working for you. We had a similar mounting situation for our last ones and they still failed a year and a half in.
@@EatSeeRV correction, I mounted my ridged panels on struts haha. Not a fan of the flat stickies. 😁
So very sorry that this happened to you as who wants to pay multiple times for technology, but the good news is nobody was hurt and damage to your rig was reparable. Great PSA. Enjoy the Balloon Festival. I love solar & the independence that it offers.
Absolutely!
I’ve had 4x 100w flexi panels on roof of my steel boat for the passed 4.5 years in full sun and the only fault I have is they have gone slightly cloudy, not so much as to look off but don’t look like new any more and output hasn’t dropped. PPS mine have been walked on a number of times, usually when one looses balance and this has not degraded the panels. I do think what you pay for panel can effect quality, for me I use them as don’t produce wind noise or can’t get things caught on them. But then my roof is 4mm thick steel, but does get hot enough to rain water to instant steam.
From Ames Description: "Ideal for curved and uneven surfaces. RVs, boats, bus, vans, utilities, golf carts, sewn to heavy duty material such as sun shades" So when they say it isn't their fault, they are 100% wrong. They market them for RVs and therefore if they knew the problem which, obviously they did, they ARE at fault and are financially liable for the damage to your RV and Solar Panels.
Yep. You sir are 100% correct and sadly these two they naively believed every word of Ames story. NO BUSINESS is ever going to willingly admit liability for a fire as that puts them ON THE HOOK for every other event involving their panels.
Poor Maggie!
I was just showing a guy in my office some photos of the inside today. Glad you found it when you did.
Thanks for sharing! She's a beauty and I'm glad she wasn't lost in the fire.
@@EatSeeRV I was showing photos because I'd love for it to live in my yard.
My office guy went to a local RV show this weekend. He needed to see how yours was set up.
Glad I saw your video. I just laid 2 of them on my camper van that I am building. I was hoping to keep a low profile without the panels being noticeable. But, possible fire is not worth it. Would it be worth trying a fire resistant something under the panels?
Everyone says air gap but we were told by the manufacturer not to do that because it breaks the membranes with wind 🍃 we recommend hard panels
Renogy A1
I had flex panels for the same reason - weight. They lasted 3 months in southern Georgia Sun.
One reason I went with rigid panels. Not expecting fire, but with no cooling capabilities, they are less effecient.
Are you sure it had nothing to do with the panel quality? Renogy has flexible panels and people swear by them - they look alot tougher then your AIMS.. Or the new CIGS panels that claim hurricane force hail resistance.
WOW!! How Crazy!! I am so glad your furry friends and you guys are okay. We will be purchasing a RV next year and planned on getting solar. I was really leaning toward flat / flexible panels like what you had on your RV. I had no idea they could catch fire like that. Thank you so very much for sharing your story. Thanks Again and Safe Travels.
I'm glad we could help you make a more informed decision. We had no idea this was even a risk when we were choosing! So scary. Congrats on the purchase and wishing you all well. - Liz
I don't like flexible solar panels buy residential rooftop panels they are UL certified. Also, NEC requires arc fault detection over 80V good idea to follow same standards when installing them on an RV even though not required. IMO RV is even worse if you have a fire then a home with the propane, and gasoline. The UL certifed inverters have arc and ground fault detection built in.
Thanks for sharing this!
Wow! That's wild. Flat panels didn't even last us a year either. Suck a pain. Glad to see you guys are doing well 😁
Yes it's seriously so annoying! But glad we got rigid panels that will last longer! We are well, hope you are too ❤️
Well, that was one big ad. I hope Renogy gave you free panels.
We bought the panels but did partner with Renogy for this video. Sorry you felt it was one big ad. We did the best job we could explaining what happened, why, and what we're doing to fix it.
Thats why I use rigid panels and mount them up off the roof.
Definitely what we recommend!
Wow God Bless you guys , That was a close one
Just 2 minutes in and you probably answer this and I will keep watching. But what did the manufacturer say about this type of mounting? Asking now because I might have to pause video and not come backfor an hour.
The manufacturer says you should adhere it to the roof tightly so no air can get in (tape on the sides isn't enough). But from further research that can cause hot spots since there's no breathability underneath the panel and can cause a fire that way. They simply aren't worth the risk!
@@EatSeeRV Thanks!!!! I thought you used them outside their scope, but you didn't. I was thinking where is the cooling effect, (breathability). These people need put out of business before they kill someone. I hope you pursue a settlement from them!
YIKES glad yall and RV are all okay. I thought you had or were selling that RV ?? It will be MUCH better now. I prefer rigid and elevated (maybe 1.5 inches) panels for the improved air circulation and cooling UNDERNEATH which can yield more energy harvest. Did you consider one or two 200 to 300 Watt individual panels that are around 39 x 64 inches IF your roof space allowed ?? Keep up the good work and videos.
John T BSEE,JD Electrical Engineer and 50 year RV owner
We considered 200 at first but they didn't fit. Rigid our definitely our preference now too.
Wow, that sucks. It's important to understand that this is a crystalline style flexible solar panel. The kind that are most abundant. They claim they can be bent to 30 degrees and whatnot. There is also another technology for flexible solar panels called CIGS. It's a much better design with longer life solar panels, big flexibility, and more efficient.
The crystalline style solar panels are just a bad idea on the top of your RV. But for a mobile style solar system they work very well. Just keep in mind that not all flexible solar panels are built the same.
We totally understand! Our flexible panels on the Rpod did something similar. Scared the crap out of us. We have a Renogy suitcase set we put out.
Oh my gosh! So scary. I'm glad nothing worse happened!
@@TravelSmallLiveBig I like that idea in order to move the panels towards the sun.
@@LaurieFloodTeacher our “new” trailer came with one panel on the roof & we use our suitcase when off grid (which we are doing now for about 2 months). Works great - we just go spin it around to face the sun!
YE HAW Technology don't ya just love it
Wild for sure
Holly Molly, that was scary! Luckily the story ends well, and replacement panels look great.
Anne & Eric
Yes 🙌 couldn't agree more
Wow this incredible to learn...so glad you guys are ok
Crazy right?!
You do Fantastic Commericals. I hope you go Big Time.
Wow, glad I do not have flexible panels on my RV roof. You were lucky that you had the FlexArmor roof that is fire retardant. We loved our couple of days at Balloon Fiesta this year, even with rain and only one mass ascent day. Safe travels.
Glad you don't either! Balloon fiesta rain or shine is magical for sure. So glad you enjoyed it
I have lately been wondering if there's like an anti fire material layer that could be put between panels and a roof, either for houses or RVs?
Also, I'm curious... this problem specifically is happening to many people. So is it happening because of the guage of wire being wrong... the panel using concentrators/concentration too much?? or What? There must be a reason that most of the fires are happening at the panels instead of on the wires themselves or at the charge controller... ?
If someone uses too low rating of wiring going from panel to charge controller this can be an issue. So can charge controller being too weak, unable to deal with the power, if the battery gets overcharged and its lithium that can be fire too. BUT what these people didn't tell you is that the fault being from different places means the fire and burnage would be in different places. NOT the same place.
...
You can also check if the guage of the wire that's carrying your power load from the panels to your system is rated high enough for all the load its carrying. This is important. Like 10 guage wire is built for 30 amps typically. A lot of people are putting more than 30 amps through, which is roughly 4 100 watt panels.
This is because you stick them with out air gap underneath
I have a curious question. I have seen that these flexible panels have been melting like this also. But my question is, is the spray armor conductive or non conductive? Curious.
We haven't had any other issues with flexarmor burning with other applications on the roof. The issue is the flexible panels.
Lucky 7….. It was bad. Glad it wasn’t worse. Stay safe guys.
We're SO glad it wasn't worse! Thank you for your well wishes.
0:52 It was kinda of a funny joke, I did laugh lol
Haha
Flexible solar panels aren't the problem, the problem is "flexible" crystalline solar panels, crystalline cells don't tolerate any flexing for very long, your new ones will also be flexing and WILL develop micro fractures due to vibrations. You would be better off with CIGS solar panels, you'll also get more power because they aren't as dependent on perfect sun conditions. Another option is Amorphous Silicon panels, but you'd need to cover a much larger area for the same amount of power.
Thanks for the tips!
Would you please share info regarding the added roof protection you’ve added on, approx cost for such or a link where I might obtain info. 🚌
For the FlexArmor Roof? Sure thing you can see our video here: ruclips.net/video/xBAcvIqFtKc/видео.html Cost is determined by the length of your RV. But the website will give you a free quote based on your specific rig.
This should be entitled, "How to write a commercial" for RUclips. Yeah, it's bad this happened, but the point here is for you to use their link to buy this product.
Glad I saw this. Thanks.
Glad you found it too
So out of a 7:59 video more than 1:20 minutes was nothing but an advertisement for Renogy products 😞 As if we don't deluged with ads already
You guys are so lucky... i do have a serious question... why did the fuses or breakers not trip... that is what they are in the circuit. The arcing should have blown or tripped something... stay safe
Because it combusted in the panels not from power going to the panels. The fuses were never involved.
Scary!!! Glad it turned out well!
Yes us too thank you
That’s scary ! Glad to know y’all are okay 👍👍👍👍
Us too! Thanks :)
photovoltaic/solar thermal technician here: proper terminology is required here. i know we're all in the same page as that they all produce electricity by converting the sun energy.
monocrsytalline, polycrsytalline and amorphous are the three types of solar panels.
monocrystalline and polycrystalline are the "rigid ones"
amorphous is the "flexible panels"
monocrystslline are more efficient than polycrystalline cells and can be smaller in size for the same output. polycrystalline are less efficient than monocrystalline solar cells and require a larger surface area for the same output. amorphous require twice as much surface area for the same power output as a monocrystalline, they are flexible and can handle higher temperatures better which to me is an oxymoron. handles temperature but not damage hence the fire. amourphous still has it's function i have some too. FYI Mono and Poly solar panels when on fire still are producing electricity and you can be electrocuted.
Is there a reason the cables from the panels are so short, wouldn't it be neater to either have longer cables or plug directly into the panels?
Oh wow. That is scary. Crazy you'd only had the panels 5 weeks.
Right!!
Yup need air flow under panels. That's why I would never use stick down panels,not worth weight savings.... Sorry for this,glad your ok.
Thanks! We're glad all is well too. We had air flow under our last ones and they still failed a year and a half in. So while less fire hazard still not worth the money.
Flexable panels are far frailer than ridged - with a clear plastic insulator to the front and no circulation from the back the heat poured in with no way to get out - failure was inevitable eventually - the only effective solution is ridged panels mounted so air circulates under - I use rec twin peak on my RV and they work flawless - some of the tiled types are even better
I just wanted to know were they recently pressure washed? it can do it too.
They've never been pressure washed
Is it alright to cover with epoxy temp resistant covering entire glass to stop of any ingress of moisture water?
cost if 550W panel is 100$
cant just throw like that
But risk is there for any fire???
Although I connected all 5 panels + 3 slightly damaged in series got 300V +
just for experiment
But if I coonect permanently on the rooof what dangers can i expect??
ok who in the heck thought it was ok to mount them directly to the roof with no air gap.? thats like common knowledge.
The panel instructions say they can be attached directly to the roof. We used an air gap previously and they still failed.
Ouch!
Two things - you seemed to have a lot of unused roof - yet only installed 3 x 100Watts. Later on - you seem to admit that 300Watts is not enough for all your needs - why didn't you add more PV's or simply try and cover the roof with PV panels. Could have gotten the extra threaded studs installed on the roof quite easily!
And - you wired up the three panels in parallel - which suggests you are using a PWM device between PV's and Batteries. I would have though running a number of panels in series (as long as shade is not a problem) and feeding that through an MPPT controller would be more efficient and give you a slightly longer charging period per day.
I'd also check that the panels have by-pass diodes - which helps with partial shading and could reduce issues with a bad cell.
300 watts was more than enough for our needs. We had 300 before and never had to turn our generator on. It was that a chassis charger alone was not enough for our needs.
Scary! Glad y'all are okay. Sorry we didn't cross paths in ABQ! 🎈
Me too! I can't believe we missed you ❤️ Did you enjoy it? We had a BLAST!
@@EatSeeRV it was great, despite the cool and rainy weather. So impressed by the captains and crews.
Yes it's amazing!
Thank God. It could have been so much worse! Sounds like the FlexArmor roof coat made the difference! Take it from a Fire I nspector. 💖🙏✌️
Hahaha yes I do! Glad we had the extra safety from the roof