Drone Wars 5: Using Dedicated Military UAVs
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2024
- Consumer drones being used on the battlefield have gotten a lot of attention recently, but military drones have years of use to learn from. We talk to a MARSOC drone operator about his experiences and observations.
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Next drone wars: anti-drone and direction finding.
I don't understand why this hasn't happened in Ukraine already. Both sides are making extensive use of drones, nearly all of which broadcast live video feed to be used effectively. Often broadcasting as loud as possible to allow greater range and counter electronic warfare.
They are literally screaming here I am, if you just use the right sensors to look.
Why aren't we see the drone equivalent to HARM missiles? Seems a three element phased array (ie. three antenna) and a bit of software should be enough to track and engage such threats.
Denying vision and the ability to effectively strike.
I think we will eventually see a shift to more automated drones that don't broadcast all of the time and instead carry out a mission profile that includes identifying of potential targets communicated with burst comms.
@@nic.h there are plenty of jammer,, spoofing and especially detection systems in use in Ukraine. Most CUAS company's use the proxy war in Ukraine as R&D.
anduril pulsar has entered the chat
@@nic.hthe drone broadcasts the video. It can be detected pretty easily by a drone detector. Operator only broadcasts commands which are harder to locate
Saw a Ukraine Operator retrieve his quad only to get hit next second by a follower.
Disable your track back or land the thing 50 metres to one side then sneak over.
Live &: Learn.
Next drone wars topic: DIY
Your observations about people not really caring, or not really thinking about the threat presented by drones during the GWOT vs today in Ukraine are spot on. I've been teaching counter UAS since 2016, when we started almost no-one cared. As soon as all the fpv footage started coming out of Ukraine it was like everyone woke up all at the same time. Glad we collectively woke up but we're >10 years late to even acknowledging the problem.
I'm a Ukrainian drone operator.
If our today's drone infantry were put against our own military of late 2021 - it would be an extremely one-sided slaughter. The same is true for our adversaries.
I hope Western countries take notice. Both Ukrainian and Russian drones are produced in China. PLA do take efforts to have a new all-army drone doctrine. Ukraine might not hold forever and Russians repeatedly say they are NOT going to stop here.
I mean, part of the issue is Early to mid. . and even late GWoT drone warfare was still in its infancy.
As I said elsewhere, those drones - the reaper sand global hawks and all of them - are just planes without pilots onboard. They were still expensive, still large and required all the support infrastructure (at that time) only major powers had access to.
Jihad Johnny wasn't going to fly a predator into New York city and fire off a few hellfires.
The only people we had to worry about were China and Russia and, though we had reservations, we weren't super concerned about 'em because we didn't think either nation would risk global economies to start beef with anyone.
But now? Now everyone can have drones. Big, expensive drones and cheap small drones and everything in between. Countries like Turkey or Iran are churning out stuff like the Bayraktar TB2s and more specifically the HESA Shahed 136s on the relative cheap while anyone can go to a hobby store and pick up a racing drone to stuff with any kinda explosive they want. And now we got suicide boat drones! Was really hoping no one figured that was doable.
In hindsight, yeah, it's really weird we didn't think it'd come to this but at the time we were just getting over technological hurdles while commercial drones hadn't really saturated the market.
. . . . Annnnnd. . I'm sure we were still convinced we'd only be fighting unsophisticated terrorists who wouldn't possibly adapt or adopt new technologies.
Brand has just became even cooler than he was before. Fast operator AND drone operator? cool!
He's much cooler than video can convey.
Good job! He's come a long ways from the kid I knew playing laser tag at Penn State.
Honestly, I'm starting to like this channel more than the t-rex arms main channel.
Surveillance and communications are often so overlooked
Not to be that guy.
But I'm almost 90% positive I was Brandon's switchblade instructor years ago.
I worked the Project Office that bought these and gave them to units in the field, and managed the training team.
Very cool video and enjoyed hearing Brandon's experiences. I myself flew the MQ-1C for the Army for several years, I wasn't a cool door kicker but I got to engage my fair share of targets and coordinate with some of the platforms mentioned here while in Iraq. The future is definitely FPV quads and I love flying mine just for fun. The potential was recognized almost immediately a few years ago but once quads started being used on the battlefield its kind of thrown up a mini arms race. I love seeing groups like Prof-Worx trying to do the tacticool cqb avatas stuff.
Thank you trex team! We need more people like you
Next drone wars video should be about anti drone tech etc.
This video had more value than I expected. Thanks.
i am loving this series!! thanks brandon for coming on and teaching us as well, i had no idea you went to iraq!
keep pushing out this content, making us more ready!!
"I got an award sitation for it we can show it, I'm retired" doesn't show video.. well played
A fixed wing drone for civ use sounds absolutely amazing!
A parrot Disco drone has about 45 min flight time, and it's quadcopter cousin gets about 15 min flight time
Rc plane enthusiasts exist
there are RC planes with first person camera onboard . Many RC planes use gasoline combustion engine .
There are youtube creators that specialize in fixed wing foam and tape UAVs that are extremely easy to create and equip. They're long range focused and ling flight time. Most of them do not use a ginbal camera, if any. It's my intention to craft one and use it when i do bb wars to put some of this stuff into practice.
I'd suspect that these same drones could also be used for payload delivery, but not the kind everyone thinks of thanks to UKR. Rather supplies, messages, and other logistical needs a civilian might have. As mobility becomes restricted (see beoing flights failing, cars with remote shut-off, 15-min cities, etc), the need to communicate is key. And the beauty of these fixed wing drones is that they can be automated, so you can send them and not need to maintain a connection.
I do wonder if it would be possible to use LoRa with these drones. We could setup a meshtastic network that the drone can leverage in order to provide or receive simple updates.
Something to ponder for the next video.
All great use cases! The LORA is definitely Theoretically possible but the message would have to be small. Maybe a signal to switch between preprogrammed mission profiles or an “@CP 1” type thing.
@@gocoastgaurd721 people are working on it.
I vote for a video on fixed wing. The Skywalker looked interesting when I researched it a few years ago.
Great video 👍🏾
if you want to see the future of small drones, do a deep dive on DIY and open source avionics
FWIW, I have a FW drone with autonomous waypoint flight capability and 40+ mile total range, designed for mapping, available to build for under $1K. I'm waiting for the tac community to discover this.
This series is fire...I think that's what the kids say
Thank you for this video series
Naval drones next
Those anduril toys are pretty cool
I would love to see a crossover with @PeterSripol looking at fixed wing DIY drones.
That would be amazing. My kids love his channel.
I’d like to see more info on fixed wing stuff
Thanks for the hard work
Ukrainians and Russians both say they often can't hear drones above. They're used in such diverse ways you just never know what to think even if you do hear them
Because they wear shitty passive ear pro.
Thanks Isaac
Thanks, Trex Labs.
You guys should dabble a bit with pixhawk. I've built one drone sofar with a pixhawk flight controller so I'm extremely green when it comes to that system but it's an open source autopilot capiable system which can be used on tons of different airframes and even ground vehicles. Another cool thing about it is the telemetry radios which can both control the drone and be used to receive data from the drone broadcasts on 915mhz which if I'm not mistaken is the same as meshtastic.
Another labs video might be a diy radar. There's a guy on RUclips who published a aeries of videos on the subject. It might be worth looking into, wince detection of things in the sky is very tough.
Channel name?
We are gonna see drone carriers pretty soon. Big fixed wing aircraft with satellite link with 500km range dropping little fpvs with 5-10km range
We already have everything he wants to see on the consumer side, minus affordable, attainable optics that are worth a damn. That's the next step that needs figured out. You could definitely throw together a kamikaze quad for well under $300 though. You can easily buy one RTF for less than that, as far as FPV quads go anyway.
Would love to see a video on how they locate the position of the drone pilots.
Fixed wing drones carrying mesh nodes, along with ISR goodness!!!
Wow amazing 🤩
I'm building a civilian backup drone swarm system.
Fire detection, siren detection, and gunshot detection, inclement weather detection.
Outer band sight, no facial recognition, the purpose is the same as GPS satellites.
Marked with revolving colors, blue,. orange, red (danger close).
The model is individually paid for.
Ten bucks a month and your in.
It pays for everyone.
No stored data past 24 hours.
I need help building this thing, and I'd love to have people involved in this project.
Very cool
In the US, since Sept. 16 of last year 2023. All UAV's over 250 grams must have a transponder that broadcasts aircraft location and altitude, launch location, operator location and identity. Any off the shelf system is required to have the transponder built in. Obviously DIY stuff does not, but builder/pilot is required to install a transponder. Halarious how FAA claims this makes US airspace safer. If I am a bad actor then I'm already not following laws. It's really the first step in monetizing the first 400' of the airspace. Prior to 107 first 400' RC pilots had use of. Now is regulated due to the BIG DRONE DELIVERY industrial complex wanting that space for their business model.
These would be much more capable if autonomous and ewar shielded. Wouldn't even be difficult. Add a micro computer and cover with copper.
Could probably make it stealthy.
Hell make it tilt rotor and solar charged. But they've probably already got something like that.
Awesome
drone balloons are quiet and can hover for hours . As for close-in observation, perhaps someone can further develop drones made out of "dead bird" ( it already exists but are experimental ) .
Awesome video as always. Y'all should really check out Black Powder Red Earth. It's a comic series that is made/inspired by special operators acting as contractors but the newest series heavily leans on loitering munitions
We need a lot of fixed wing with rocket engines. We need stratospheric gliders with high stealth to gather intelligence and drop a payload of FPV small quad copters
DEE - JAY - EYE
Say it with me now ……
17:50 it’s because “better men” are making the decisions with the hellfire but just any old grunt could use the switchblade.
What kind of software assist do the professional drones offer for final guidance (What guidance does an operator use? Does (s)he set waypoints or fly directly until the terminal ophase)? Of course, the fixed wing ones are cheaper, but they are a lot more difficult to fly into a moving vehicle or bunker.
Also there are reportrs of motherships (which launch smaller drones) and relay nodes. It needs automation to coordinate multiple drones.
I don't think the fixed wing platform may be as expensive as they could be? Take a large RC plane, possibly upgrade the antenna, but the pricey part would still be the camera/gimbal/erc.
DIY FPV drones are relatively cheap, fixed wings even more so. You can cut the bodies out of foam board and you only need to buy one motor instead of 4. The problem is when you need to observe from afar, making a camera stable enough to be used for detailed observation on a fixed wing platform gets expensive.
DIY gimbals aren't particularly expensive. It's basically just a frame, a couple of motors, a sensor and control board.
Hellfire are "war scale" weapons, when the enemies are numbers. Ex: 25 enemies KIA
Where the switchblade is a... "personnel scale" weapon, at which targets have names. Ex: "Oop! There goes muhammad and ahmed!"
I think that is the disconnect for people; somehow it is way more acceptable to annihilate a collective crowd than two individuals with names. The crowd is clearly 25 individuals with names, but from a military report and journalistic viewpoint, they simply aren't individuals anymore. This is the wrong mindset.
If you don’t wanna sit through this video. Here you go.
This video is about military drones flown in the Iraq and Syria area during the war on terror. Brandon, a former drone pilot who flew five different platforms, discusses his experiences and compares them to the drone footage coming out of Ukraine.
Military drones are designed for covert missions and prioritize staying hidden while providing intelligence. In contrast, the drones being used in Ukraine are cheaper, expendable, and can be flown more openly.
Here are some of the key points from the video:
Military drones are flown on pre-planned flight paths to gather intelligence on enemy positions and activities.
Pilots rely on pattern of life analysis to identify unusual activity that might indicate the presence of the enemy.
Covertness is essential for the safety of both the drone and the pilots controlling it.
Some of the drones Brandon flew included the Puma and Wasp. These drones could only fly for a couple of hours at a time, so they were often used in a “yo-yo” fashion, with one drone replacing another to provide continuous surveillance.
good summary!
Good job. Was this an AI summary?
Zoomer brainrot be like:
There was a drone that was viewing a large gas pumping plant near Phoenix a year or so ago. That the police helicopter caught on camera, the when the drone realized they were being seen. The drone was so fast that it outran the police pursuit.
recently watched a Mark Rober video with super low noise with some different drone blade configurations; and seen some people doing them with 3d printers etc for smaller drones; interesting if can have a play with that/get someone with authority in it to talk about how effective that actually becomes.
What about drone jamming? Can the EA 18G disable FPVs. Are there dedicated quads used for jamming radars in small combats?
whats the drone simulator you recommend?
The i45 uses 15PM cameras. What kind of zoom ranges do those cameras need?
I mean the cost differential between the dedicated military drone and the civilian ones is astronomical. I have a hard time understanding the value of of that versus just a bunch of cheap disposable ones
Cost per unit is divided over the life of the program including replacement parts
The Anduril CEO explained it, they operate on a cost plus 6% (profit margin) Model. So to make money they pitch the most outrageous and over engineered Ideas they can get away with and than if the project is awarded don't deliver and increase cost for as much as they can get away with.
Ive been thinking that a 360° camera launched via slingshot with a parachute or glider wings could be a quieter "drone" replacement.
Range issues
edit: next episode do dive into uav signals and how to not get seen
why wouldn't a government worry about a $500 rocket anyone could build compared to a multi-million dollar weapon only the wealthiest militaries can afford?
The US better figure out how to start making drones a lot cheaper or we are going to get out numbered very quickly in the next conflict.
The reason people freak out about the smaller drones is because something larger requires finances and logistics outside the reach of most people. These smaller drones can be mimicked by the average citizen with impressive precision and lethality.
Your drone wars playlist is upside down. It starts with this episode and finishes with episode 1.
Ukraine soldiers said at 500 ft they can’t hear them. The small FPVs
So watching some drone attack videos i noticed something neat. One drone watching from a distance and then another drone that circled in on a tank. Layer back for a second then raced towards the tank like you could imagine a humming bird striking with it's sphere as a beak on a cartoon. And then the turret flys off and one man can carry the drone.
Typically they are being used in teams in Ukraine. At least 3 people, one flying observation, one dealing with arming kamikaze drone and one with flying kamikaze drone to identified target
Some small RC cameras can zoom to 10X
Flew a Puma myself for the army.
Next Dronewars video about a person who's flying FPV drones in UA 🎉
They use Analog for a reason..
Sincerely, an FPV pilot.
Don't forget to cover land drones and water based drones.
3:23 DJI m300 with the 20x gimbal could almost surely image effectively at 3000 feet.
isn't the federal govt banned from procuring DJI products?
@@the_rzh yes-ish. But were not the government, and if the government can't get better than what I could buy as a peasant for a few grand in 2021, we're in a very bad place.
@19:30 I think its more that a bigger drone only a gov can get there hands on and the smaller ones I can get off eBay
That video unavailable thing made me think for a second lol
No problem viewing the Vid France ??
Theres stuff I would never publicly release....and Ive been out of the Army for over 12 years lol
lancet is the best attack drone ❤
Why, what makes it better? Feature wise it's not particularly different to alternatives.
Wait, where can we see the video he won the award for 👀
You probably need to be inside the Pentagon for that.
@@T.REXLabs LOL!
🙋🏼 sir! Is it the same as flying a chopper on codm? 😕
We see that Tactical Games shirts. When does that video drop?
Soon...
The Appliance grave yard in Russia say a lot about drones. Appliances littering the landscape with only the processors removed. I wonder why???
I think the thing that scares people is ANYONE could build an fpv drone, but they'd have a bit of difficulty building a Reaper and hellfires in a bedroom or garage.
I think you missed the point. Of why Americans are scared, you don't operate them in your own country so why would people be scared of them?
Switchblade has probably been one of the biggest failures. It was another weapon pushed as a gamechanger yet it was not able to withstand Russian jamming, it couldnt be used.
Swtichblade 300 is no longer being procured. Price hit $80k per unit and results in Ukraine didn't justify it. Once enemy vehicles have been disabled, you still have to deal with dismounted infantry. There is a need for a one-time use anti-personnel drone that costs less than $10k per casualty generated.
Like Lancet. The Russkiys use them for faraway hard targets in a hurry.
T-90's are nice but slow.
FPV's can't take down an Abrams, Leopard or Challenger.
MLRS are for Clusters.
I built a fixed wing drone that Ive flow 18 miles away and still had signal for about 1k
How about a look at what the average citizen can do now with what's available - drone, ATAK, software, signal boosting, etc..
not suprised when and if not already have a ground unit controlled by air support/control. Like the movie Screamers, balls with blades seeking out men on the ground and in the trench then if no human it would find a vehicle to roll under and blow a secondary charge. Side not; why do we not have an American made drone to compete with DJI???
Oorah.
UCAV AIRLINES ONBOARD 😅
Boromir?? Really Isaac? 😅
please increase this technology
About that Covert part.... Need more infor about that Drone ID Crap and how to get around that...
How are the doin it in Ukraine ?
My Mavic Mini, is practically invisible (if you know where it is, you might be able to see it with binoculars) and completly silent after 200 yards up. The camera can pick out enough detail to identify individuals.
Mine is a Gen1, the newer Gens have a ton of autonomous with no bigger package and better camera.
I've had my kids be capable of identifying my mini drones while above 200 meters. They've also been able to hear it a couple times at that height. Frankly, I'm baffled at how, but my point is that it can be done by kids. Not that I'm looking for some Ender's Game action for my kids, but worth keeping in mind.
@@JamesMelton I can see that if youte activelly looking and listening for it. It would still be very difficult. Even then if the operator thinks theyve been spotted, just go higher. Or fly away, then circle back at a different altitude. Most ppl, if not all. Are not activelly looking in the sky for drones.
At 400ft I can not hear or see my mini 4 pro
Yeah, the minis are indeed pretty mini... Remember there was nothing quite like that when Brandon was in the sandbox.
Ukraine has the cost of adding thermal imaging down to sub $100.
who did it? $100 sounds too good to be true.
For that price you can only get low-light camera + IR flashlight. $200 is the cheapest thermal camera that I've heard is being used but for decent-ish quality you need $500+
Can we start using proper names like fixed wing or quad-copter. Drone is a propaganda term for UAS extended flight vehicles
UAV is online is so much cooler
NATO has a pretty good UAS classification system. Groups 1-4 based on size, mission, and capability.
100% agree. I've been in FPV for a while and it's like the magazine clip debate with guns. Fudds say drones and it drives me crazy 😂
@@xORLOCKxoh, grow up. They’re drones. The type might change but they’re drones
@davidtimus4026 lol calm down my dude. No one is seriously bothered. Don't get all fuddy on us.
22:15 I’ll get you a pacifier for your naivety.
Ali express ad before the movie. Good try China!
If draft enacted and accepted I'd attempt new department something like battery technologist. They might already have this but besides my firearm knowledge lithium technology primarily car audio is of major fascination. I mean Elon isn't the King for no reason.
128x zoom????????? OMG
So called military-grade switchblade drone just failed in Ukraine against technically equipped army. It’s designed to fight guys in flip-flops, not regular army
They didn't, they just got used up very quickly. Ukraine uses a hundred thousand FPV per month, a couple thousand switchblades can't compete
@@tedarcher9120 no, they did. The existing footages shown them completely useless. They aren’t tactically applicable in this type of war. They probably are capable of killing man in flip-flops(as per design), but not more. 300 is 10 times “heavier” in price than 7” quad, but carry lil grenade while quad can kill vehicles and tanks. 600 version was mostly in the titles but not on the battlefield. So yes, they’ve failed on the Ukraine’s battlefield badly
Because the Russian army is a modern army that jam all the gps other communication. Which makes the targeting useless or much worse.
@@RoniiNN switchblade doesn't need gps
@@tedarcher9120 yeah but they miss 70% more.
Yeah, where are they hellfire missiles in Ukraine?
Fired from what platform
@@nic.h Humvee, M113 or Stryker?
@@Alex4n3r true, I forget ground fired versions.
$500 FPV with rpg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palmer Lucky's overpriced turd.
15:00 he is your guest so I don't slight you for not correcting him. The US military is spending billions on small offense drones and how to counter such. While he is correct that the next war won't be like the last... small offensive drones, like in Ukraine, are here to stay.
As a FBV person for 13years. Drones will be banned
Hard to ban something that just gets easier to make and fly every day.
@@T.REXLabs Canada: "Hold my maple syrup..."
Seriously, they try to ban everything here.
@@gravijta936Oh bullshit, fly your drone in the countryside and relax. Luckily Canada is 99% trees and farmland.
i would say t othe guy what you are accustomed to is already very outdated. they fought almost civilians with overpriced single digit drones. even US command admitted that they are completely not ready for the modern drone war
Guys if you wanna play with all this drones plz don't do it in the Middle East just do it at home