What Judson is talking about is the difference between melodic vocals, and harsh vocals which are more easily understood as a percussive instrument, and not a melofic delivery.
The bands last two albums haven’t been Halo themed. The album Melancholy is a dark supernatural horror story the vocalist wrote, and their most recent album Elegy is all about real historical battles, each song being a different event. I’d recommend more from these guys! Great reaction.
Having been a screaming vocalist since the very early 2000s I’ve come to the conclusion through writing and performing this style that it is almost more percussive than musical. Rhythm, cadence, attitude and tone are all conscious choices. It also falls into a spot similar to distorted guitars fall into. The tone and pitch can actually be quite musical. You can also mix actual note pitch into the performance (ie Joe from Gojira and the like). There is more to it than most people think.
On Judson words about harsh vocals: It may sound weird, but harsh vocals often function a little bit like rap vocals, although they are of course completely different. Screams and growls can differ a lot and can have either a distinct, melodic pitch depending on their technique, or a barely musical pitch that mainly alternates between high- mid- and low pitched. Rap on the other hand can incorporate melody, but often the vocalist just stay on the same pitch. But both rely a lot on cadence and rhythm to create more variation. So these are very rhythmic vocal styles. Now what they express is of course completely different and other aspects, like holding a long scream is something you can not get out of rap. It also adds to this, that ganster-rap intially probably wanted to sound cool, hard and though and it is hard to imagine something harder than heavy music with harsh vocals on top. Edit: If you want to listen to a more melodic style of still very harsh vocals, I recommend the Band Killswitch Engage especially with Howard Jones. They do extremely melodic music with very harsh vocals, but Howards screams have a very harmonic pitch to them, blending extremely well with the heavy and melodic music. You might want to check out the Band ONI with their song "Aura" too. It freatures Howard Jones, Josh Gilbert (Ex- As I lay Dying vocalist bassist and now part of Spiritbox). Some of metalcores best vocalists. Or maybe "Jaded" by Spiritbox, which recently was even nominated for the grammys.
Judson is underestimating the musical thought that goes into writing harsh vocals. There's plenty that goes into figuring out which styles and tones to use in each part of the song, to support and fit the music. And as much poetry than in any type of lyrics. The matter of intelligibility is completely an artistic choice, intelligibility varies in other genres as well.
@rand0m.u5er Ah yes, musical quality. The ephemeral definition. What is music? It's sound arranged within certain constrains. What is quality? A measure of value. What is value? An entirely subjective concept. In other words, musical quality is something we each know to ourselves and while we join in consensus we can not exclude another's definition other than from our own constraints. Musical quality is a useless metric in anything other than exclusion.
@@Lloocii And do you really believe this nonsense of subjectivity that is invented to confirm a certain statement that you already have in mind? Artistic quality has something to do with the presence of depth (and stillness). Just because someone cannot perceive depth and stillness does not mean that there are not other people who can recognize that presence of depth and stillness. The alleged subjectivity of everything is just a zeitgeist phenomenon that comes with mob rule. Rhythmic farting can certainly delight some people, but this subjective experience is independent of the fact that rhythmic farting does not reveal any depth. And certainly no stillness.
@@Lloocii youre confusing value for meaning. meaning is subjective. value is an objective measure of worth. kindly take your relativism somewhere where it's appreciated. a comment thread on youtube is not the place for that.
@kahwigulum Ah, a pedant. How quaint. I'm not confused in the least. You can call value an objective measure of worth, but worth is subjective as is value. They derive from "meaning." What is anything worth to you? Certainly, everything is not what it's worth to everyone else. By your very words, you make my point. Whether you call it meaning, value, or worth is irrelevant. At the end of the day, if it's meaning, that worth or value are derived from, a subjective measure, then your objective measure is really nothing but subjective. One can not have value or worth without meaning. Therefore, they are derivative, and you confirm my point but do so in a pedant's style. It's a sad position if ever there was one. I'll take my statement wherever I choose. Certainly, the youtube comments were a good enough place to educate you on origin.
I get what Judson is saying about harsh vocals but as others have mentioned it's best to think of them as an accompanying instrument rather than something that needs to be musical in itself the way that singing is. It's not trying to be singing, it's not really comparable.
Different forms of music use vocals differently, in Celine Dion’s music the music is to compliment and back up her singing. In a lot of harsher genres the vocals are meant to complement the music, and add to the overall sound. The lyrics are less important as the music and vocal delivery, let’s be honest most heavy bands with guttural vocals, are not really telling a story, with a few exceptions. For those who like this type of music as I do occupies different spot in me emotionally. Songs with more pronounced vocals, and focus on vocals, tickle a certain part of my brain, while deathcore and the like occupy a different part that allows me to flow with the music and vibe. It literally is vibes. More conventional songs can also provide that, but not as commonly, at least in my brain. I understand that coming from a more classical background your mind is focused on more traditional delivery, and it can be off putting to hear something like deathcore, with no buildup into the music. There is nothing wrong with that and most people and bands would be okay with that, they know that their style is not for the vast majority of music listeners. However for those who it clicks with, it clicks. I do not like all deathcore, lets be honest a lot of it is trash, but bands such as Shadow of Intent, make really good deathcore and I can just as easily vibe to a Shadow of Intent song, as I can to techno song, or a silly pop song. You taste in not liking the deathcore vocals is a valid opinion, and your argument from your perspective also makes sense, but I really think it comes down to how your brain is wired and what you in particular are looking for in music. For me, I would prefer to lick the inside of a dumpster, than listen to contemporary Country music, but gimme some Willie Nelson, or Patsy Cline all day long, and in those songs are where the my brain goes somewhere else, and I get a different kind of musical satisfaction, but not any less than good deathcore. Love those show and keep those opinions coming!! I think it’s always good that have conversations like this, to help understand how people are wired for music. Have a great day!!
Shadow of Intent is one of the bands I enjoy the lyrics of since they always have a story, the first two albums are based off the stories and lore of the Halo franchise.
Alright Richard…….can we “proceed” with Judson FINALLY watching and reviewing the music video for Cannibal by Vola…? I hope Judson hasn’t seen or heard it yet…because he’s gonna love it. Groovy bass lines, clean singing, Dream Theatre style drums, and the In Flames singer’s growls sprinkled in here and there. PRETTY PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE Richard?!? Judson will have a big smile, and the 3 of us will be head banging the whole time LOL I know I do when I watch it. Great choice on this one fellas. Big thumbs up from us Canadianas !
Generally, Deathcore isnt singing. It is Vocal. Theres a difference. Its a group of sounds that happen to be Vocal in origin. The same as when people say Jimi Hendrix made his Guitar "sing". It didn't actually sing! It wasn't singing. Same here. The Vocals in Deathcore are just another instrument who's sound happens to come from the mouth.
The vocalist of Wolfheart hit the nail on the head when he said to him harsh vocals are a rhythmical element. Rhythm is part of music, so it‘s musical. Just not melodic. Schooled, Judson. It also adds emotionality and atmosphere.
Chthonic have a whole acoustic compilation album where their vocalist sings what is normally screamed but does IN FACT have screams with acoustic accompaniment.
I'd say Judson is valid in how he feels towards it being musical, that's at times why I like it more. Sometimes I want music and vocals that in portions feel so muddled with sound and emotion that it feels it your brain white outs. As he said it's not exactly a feeling he likes from music but for me personally it's exactly what I want at times. Maybe it's a result of how I bonded with it over the years and growing up but for some people it simply isn't something that they personally value or look to have in their music. Not everyone wants creamer in their coffee sometimes.
The vocals are there to add to the brutality and also to be an occasional shock factor. There are many techniques used with the tongue placement, false vocal folds, nasality, etc. The lyrics tend to be well written though, especially in bands like Archspire and Shadow of Intent. The vocals should make you want to move, swing, or make a stank face like you bit into a lemon, haha.
Maybe you can think them as spices in food. Do you eat curry or pepper by its own? No you dont, but they add to the whole meal. And not all instruments sound that good on their own, particularly ambient and percussion instruments.
Loving your choices Richard! Absolute Banger of a Song. Obligatory Comment of me wanting Judson to react to Ghost - Miasma or something like Ritual. Thank you
Ship names in Halo are great, both human and Covenant. Covenant: Shadow of Intent Long Night of Solace Truth and Reconciliation Harbinger of Piety UNSC: Pillar of Autumn In Amber Clad Forward Unto Dawn Unto the Breach
Yeah while harsh vocals are there to deliver the lyrics, that's not often their main job. I like the analogy of thinking harsh vocals as just another instrument, sometimes they're playing rhythmic bits, sometimes they deliver a melody (different pitches from different techniques and so on). Casual listener might not care for any instrument on it's own, same goes for vocals. There's not a whole lot of isolated harsh vocals (outside of vocal tutorial stuff), but first thing I found was: ruclips.net/video/7SPzZUBFEMY/видео.htmlsi=wQu3S7o6wnl67ma4 Also, is Master Chief a rapper? I mean kind of (Epic Rap Battles of History): ruclips.net/video/mgVwv0ZuPhM/видео.html
As someone whos been around the metal scene for a long time, i really dont think that most people would say that harsh vocals are considered singing, the term i most hear associated is screaming. I dont disagree with Judson, however to say its not "Musical" Is all subjective. I would agree too that on its own, screaming vocals are insanely difficult to listen to, it is not appealing. I would also agree, that without the music behind it its not appealing. However where i will argue Judson is on the process of building the music. Sometimes metal is just harshness for harshness's sake, however there is a fuck ton of different styles of harsh vocals, if you havent yet, you guys should watch "The charismatic voice's" Video breaking down Will Ramos, vocals. the one where the "Vocal scientists" are looking at his throat on an exray, and cant pick their jaws up off the floor. Also i think that as a classical pianist, your more skewed toward the instrumental side of music, vs the emotional side. A HUGE part of metal, is the lyricality. Lyricality doesnt need to be heard, i would argue (As someone who is not trained) That a single instrument, can take on lyricality, an instrument played well, can almost be understood as if it were speaking through how it is played, and that is part of what i think you need to absorb, the vocalist is just another instrument, whether or not they are singing opera, or they are screaming their eyes out. I would argue however that some screaming can be musically pleasing, if that were not the case, you wouldnt have so many bands, putting in Huge musical breaks, with wildly heavy vocal parts in the silence. Would i sit and listen to just the vocals from THIS song, no, would i listen to will Ramos scream an entire song solo no backing, yes. absolutely yes. However i have been listening to it for over 20 years at this point, and i can hear the nuances in screams that i am geussing you can not yet hear, because you are too blind sided by the overwhelming sound of it. But here is another thing, i dont think that musically, as a listener the nuances should matter, in fact i would pay a lot of money to be able to go back in time, and hear some of the songs that ive just heard recently, before i had the ear for them. and see how different it sounds to me. I would argue that this is more important. So you are closer to the version of someone that should hear it, as the nuances just become a part of the cacophony.
For some reason, all I could picture while listening to this song was Dani Filth riding an angry pig. Kind of cool and messed up at the same time. Much like life.
That was some excellent improving! And I gather that you’re twice-a-week kind of guys now. I’ll have any newbies know that Great Measures used to put out every day, but not so much in their old age.
Hey guys. Please react/listen to "Prognan - Tri Nacjie" "Bloodbath - Eaten" "Borknagar - Up North" "Satyricon - Mother North" "Immortal - Withstand the fall of time" "Taake - Myr"
Hey Judson, what about opera? In many cases the singer "gets in the way" of the delivery of the lyrics because the focus is not the lyrics but the "tonal performance" (idk how to say it in english).
C'Mon dude, you have to give Judson some Nevermore! Maybe Dreaming Neon Black to tickle his "sad bone". Being rude, have heard plenty of B list bands to date. It's time for an A-lister!
I agree with Judson. Ultimately, you can refine any sound and use it musically. But if it doesn't sound musical on its own, how can it add anything substantial to the music? I would give Judson some "Zen Metal" to listen to ("where do I place the one note that makes something complete out of almost nothing"). How about Bolt Thrower? You understand the words, the riff-based guitar playing is dynamic despite maximum distortion and there are also some bare bones there.
I'd like to recommend you show J some Symphony X. Of Sins and Shadows is a great intro. Or something like Egypt. Or a deeper cut like A Winter's Dream Pts. I and II back to back. Work your way up to the more proggy stuff like The Odyssey, but don't start there.
Incorrect, if you isolate the vocals, its super fucking dope musically. what haha..its very rhythmic and is what it is, and its musically very well done, which is why it rules in.. music. sounds like after some songs, he hasn't connected with it and isn't actually listening to it, and by that I mean, He's not enjoying while hearing it so you're not hearing whats actually happening, as it is music. If you isolated, its going to be completely in time and rhythmic as the drums are and have notes in those vocals. bad take, Judson lol
For me those vocals were very musical, but it seems that i simply don't have the same definition of term musical. I am sure that he have taken the same amount of musical process than the other members to build is parts. Just making the choice of where in the song he will use different vocal techniques is one aspect of is work & we are not even taking about their execution. Making those vocals the way people that dig that will have a blast with the song; isn't just screaming in a Mic without forethought. I see that in the same way than distortion on an electric guitar. It can make some notes less clear & perceptible, but like in the Intent to make a chugging sound, it is often what is so good about some riffs. Itis less melodic to the ear but no less musical. For guttural & other harsh type of vocals, it's almost always more about what it will makes us feel than a delivery to make sure we understand all the lyrics.
They say harsh vocals are pitchless but there is vibration, so there is frequency because that is what frequency is. You not using you true vocal folds its false folds and epiglottis are vibrating.
Personally, I don't like vocals like this... to highlight a contrast, I watched Mgla video and you guys had 20 mins discussion about lyrics. Did you like those vocals or you're ok as long as you can understand it? I think I'd rather listen to something like Burzum than deathcore vocals, but thats just me. You still can't understand shit, but its more musical in my mind. Rock on.
If delivery of lyrics is the sole intent - choose speaking. There are types of singing in, for instance opera, rap, etc that are close to speaking. There is singing, just to make sound, wordless even, or in a made up language. And everything in between. It’s a style, an esthetic choice, right? Why limit how you think about this kind of expression? And besides, it’s more close to “normal” singing than plain shouting or screaming than not. Ask anyone who’s ever tried it, you can really do some damage to yourself if you try to “just scream” some lyrics.
What Judson is talking about is the difference between melodic vocals, and harsh vocals which are more easily understood as a percussive instrument, and not a melofic delivery.
Good explanation 😊
The bands last two albums haven’t been Halo themed. The album Melancholy is a dark supernatural horror story the vocalist wrote, and their most recent album Elegy is all about real historical battles, each song being a different event. I’d recommend more from these guys! Great reaction.
Having been a screaming vocalist since the very early 2000s I’ve come to the conclusion through writing and performing this style that it is almost more percussive than musical. Rhythm, cadence, attitude and tone are all conscious choices. It also falls into a spot similar to distorted guitars fall into. The tone and pitch can actually be quite musical. You can also mix actual note pitch into the performance (ie Joe from Gojira and the like). There is more to it than most people think.
Yeah it's how explain it to people also why it's impressive, and takes talent still.
This seems like the conversation Judson would have in the 1st week of listening to metal
Reclaimer is such a good album. And the best about it is that they released an instrumental version too.
On Judson words about harsh vocals:
It may sound weird, but harsh vocals often function a little bit like rap vocals, although they are of course completely different.
Screams and growls can differ a lot and can have either a distinct, melodic pitch depending on their technique, or a barely musical pitch that mainly alternates between high- mid- and low pitched. Rap on the other hand can incorporate melody, but often the vocalist just stay on the same pitch. But both rely a lot on cadence and rhythm to create more variation. So these are very rhythmic vocal styles. Now what they express is of course completely different and other aspects, like holding a long scream is something you can not get out of rap. It also adds to this, that ganster-rap intially probably wanted to sound cool, hard and though and it is hard to imagine something harder than heavy music with harsh vocals on top.
Edit: If you want to listen to a more melodic style of still very harsh vocals, I recommend the Band Killswitch Engage especially with Howard Jones. They do extremely melodic music with very harsh vocals, but Howards screams have a very harmonic pitch to them, blending extremely well with the heavy and melodic music.
You might want to check out the Band ONI with their song "Aura" too. It freatures Howard Jones, Josh Gilbert (Ex- As I lay Dying vocalist bassist and now part of Spiritbox). Some of metalcores best vocalists.
Or maybe "Jaded" by Spiritbox, which recently was even nominated for the grammys.
Some Archspire songs would really highlight the "rap" aspect. Ollie, their vocalist has a very percussive and fast delivery.
Judson is underestimating the musical thought that goes into writing harsh vocals. There's plenty that goes into figuring out which styles and tones to use in each part of the song, to support and fit the music. And as much poetry than in any type of lyrics. The matter of intelligibility is completely an artistic choice, intelligibility varies in other genres as well.
Yes, but the level of sophistication says nothing about musical quality. This is a fact that has to be dealt with when making an argument.
@rand0m.u5er Ah yes, musical quality. The ephemeral definition. What is music? It's sound arranged within certain constrains. What is quality? A measure of value. What is value? An entirely subjective concept.
In other words, musical quality is something we each know to ourselves and while we join in consensus we can not exclude another's definition other than from our own constraints.
Musical quality is a useless metric in anything other than exclusion.
@@Lloocii And do you really believe this nonsense of subjectivity that is invented to confirm a certain statement that you already have in mind? Artistic quality has something to do with the presence of depth (and stillness). Just because someone cannot perceive depth and stillness does not mean that there are not other people who can recognize that presence of depth and stillness. The alleged subjectivity of everything is just a zeitgeist phenomenon that comes with mob rule. Rhythmic farting can certainly delight some people, but this subjective experience is independent of the fact that rhythmic farting does not reveal any depth. And certainly no stillness.
@@Lloocii youre confusing value for meaning. meaning is subjective. value is an objective measure of worth. kindly take your relativism somewhere where it's appreciated. a comment thread on youtube is not the place for that.
@kahwigulum Ah, a pedant. How quaint. I'm not confused in the least. You can call value an objective measure of worth, but worth is subjective as is value. They derive from "meaning." What is anything worth to you? Certainly, everything is not what it's worth to everyone else. By your very words, you make my point. Whether you call it meaning, value, or worth is irrelevant. At the end of the day, if it's meaning, that worth or value are derived from, a subjective measure, then your objective measure is really nothing but subjective. One can not have value or worth without meaning. Therefore, they are derivative, and you confirm my point but do so in a pedant's style. It's a sad position if ever there was one.
I'll take my statement wherever I choose. Certainly, the youtube comments were a good enough place to educate you on origin.
Seen them live last month ... one for the best concerts ive ever been to. Amazing live.
Oh man he’s gonna love this one, Judson be prepared lol. Thanks for this
I get what Judson is saying about harsh vocals but as others have mentioned it's best to think of them as an accompanying instrument rather than something that needs to be musical in itself the way that singing is. It's not trying to be singing, it's not really comparable.
To add to that: there's little research on harsh vocals, and we probably haven't even scratched the surface of what our voice is capable of yet.
Different forms of music use vocals differently, in Celine Dion’s music the music is to compliment and back up her singing. In a lot of harsher genres the vocals are meant to complement the music, and add to the overall sound. The lyrics are less important as the music and vocal delivery, let’s be honest most heavy bands with guttural vocals, are not really telling a story, with a few exceptions. For those who like this type of music as I do occupies different spot in me emotionally. Songs with more pronounced vocals, and focus on vocals, tickle a certain part of my brain, while deathcore and the like occupy a different part that allows me to flow with the music and vibe. It literally is vibes. More conventional songs can also provide that, but not as commonly, at least in my brain.
I understand that coming from a more classical background your mind is focused on more traditional delivery, and it can be off putting to hear something like deathcore, with no buildup into the music. There is nothing wrong with that and most people and bands would be okay with that, they know that their style is not for the vast majority of music listeners. However for those who it clicks with, it clicks. I do not like all deathcore, lets be honest a lot of it is trash, but bands such as Shadow of Intent, make really good deathcore and I can just as easily vibe to a Shadow of Intent song, as I can to techno song, or a silly pop song.
You taste in not liking the deathcore vocals is a valid opinion, and your argument from your perspective also makes sense, but I really think it comes down to how your brain is wired and what you in particular are looking for in music. For me, I would prefer to lick the inside of a dumpster, than listen to contemporary Country music, but gimme some Willie Nelson, or Patsy Cline all day long, and in those songs are where the my brain goes somewhere else, and I get a different kind of musical satisfaction, but not any less than good deathcore. Love those show and keep those opinions coming!! I think it’s always good that have conversations like this, to help understand how people are wired for music. Have a great day!!
Lovely
Shadow of Intent is one of the bands I enjoy the lyrics of since they always have a story, the first two albums are based off the stories and lore of the Halo franchise.
Let's gooooooo! Cant wait to see what he makes of this
Shadow of intent is peak,dope
Alright Richard…….can we “proceed” with Judson FINALLY watching and reviewing the music video for Cannibal by Vola…? I hope Judson hasn’t seen or heard it yet…because he’s gonna love it. Groovy bass lines, clean singing, Dream Theatre style drums, and the In Flames singer’s growls sprinkled in here and there. PRETTY PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE Richard?!? Judson will have a big smile, and the 3 of us will be head banging the whole time LOL I know I do when I watch it. Great choice on this one fellas. Big thumbs up from us Canadianas !
Planetary Duality by The Faceless, Mirrors by Fit For an Autopsy, and Eternal Suffering by Thy Art is Murder
Generally, Deathcore isnt singing. It is Vocal. Theres a difference. Its a group of sounds that happen to be Vocal in origin. The same as when people say Jimi Hendrix made his Guitar "sing". It didn't actually sing! It wasn't singing. Same here. The Vocals in Deathcore are just another instrument who's sound happens to come from the mouth.
The vocalist of Wolfheart hit the nail on the head when he said to him harsh vocals are a rhythmical element. Rhythm is part of music, so it‘s musical. Just not melodic. Schooled, Judson.
It also adds emotionality and atmosphere.
Yes, that is how I see it as well. Harsh vocals to me are mainly a rhythmical (and lyrical) element.
So it's like a tambourine that makes barf sounds. Real cool 🙄
@@spockhozzer7207 In the same way operatic singers are like violins making cat sounds, yes.
@@spockhozzer7207 ghey comment. its called death metal and its the best music on earth
He needs to listen to EPICA I’ve been waiting without requesting. Kingdom of heaven part two would be perfect
The Currents reaction would be nice after this one. Chris' riffs are dope.
Chthonic have a whole acoustic compilation album where their vocalist sings what is normally screamed but does IN FACT have screams with acoustic accompaniment.
I'd say Judson is valid in how he feels towards it being musical, that's at times why I like it more. Sometimes I want music and vocals that in portions feel so muddled with sound and emotion that it feels it your brain white outs. As he said it's not exactly a feeling he likes from music but for me personally it's exactly what I want at times. Maybe it's a result of how I bonded with it over the years and growing up but for some people it simply isn't something that they personally value or look to have in their music. Not everyone wants creamer in their coffee sometimes.
Dope song and nice Snuffed on Sight shirt too !
Really love the Opening theme !!
Super awesome shirt definitely have him listen to blunt cough or Time2Dip!
👿🔱😈..new band to me.. I dig it 🤘.. Thanks richard
👿🔱😈...tell Linus i really liked his melancholy piano intro... Sir you come up with some great stuff sometimes 🤘
The vocals are there to add to the brutality and also to be an occasional shock factor. There are many techniques used with the tongue placement, false vocal folds, nasality, etc. The lyrics tend to be well written though, especially in bands like Archspire and Shadow of Intent. The vocals should make you want to move, swing, or make a stank face like you bit into a lemon, haha.
Maybe you can think them as spices in food. Do you eat curry or pepper by its own? No you dont, but they add to the whole meal. And not all instruments sound that good on their own, particularly ambient and percussion instruments.
Loving your choices Richard! Absolute Banger of a Song.
Obligatory Comment of me wanting Judson to react to Ghost - Miasma or something like Ritual. Thank you
I would have shown him something from Elegy. "Farewell" or "The Coming Fire"?
Great pick! There's gotta be a Master Cheef out there somewhere. I suggest Draconian - Not Breathing for a great sad metal song 🤘
🌀🌀🌀👍👍👍 nice!
Ship names in Halo are great, both human and Covenant.
Covenant:
Shadow of Intent
Long Night of Solace
Truth and Reconciliation
Harbinger of Piety
UNSC:
Pillar of Autumn
In Amber Clad
Forward Unto Dawn
Unto the Breach
Yeah while harsh vocals are there to deliver the lyrics, that's not often their main job. I like the analogy of thinking harsh vocals as just another instrument, sometimes they're playing rhythmic bits, sometimes they deliver a melody (different pitches from different techniques and so on). Casual listener might not care for any instrument on it's own, same goes for vocals. There's not a whole lot of isolated harsh vocals (outside of vocal tutorial stuff), but first thing I found was: ruclips.net/video/7SPzZUBFEMY/видео.htmlsi=wQu3S7o6wnl67ma4
Also, is Master Chief a rapper? I mean kind of (Epic Rap Battles of History): ruclips.net/video/mgVwv0ZuPhM/видео.html
Hello, please do some old Amporphis, Into Hiding or Black Winter Day or anything else from The Tales From The Thousand Lakes.
As someone whos been around the metal scene for a long time, i really dont think that most people would say that harsh vocals are considered singing, the term i most hear associated is screaming. I dont disagree with Judson, however to say its not "Musical" Is all subjective. I would agree too that on its own, screaming vocals are insanely difficult to listen to, it is not appealing. I would also agree, that without the music behind it its not appealing.
However where i will argue Judson is on the process of building the music. Sometimes metal is just harshness for harshness's sake, however there is a fuck ton of different styles of harsh vocals, if you havent yet, you guys should watch "The charismatic voice's" Video breaking down Will Ramos, vocals. the one where the "Vocal scientists" are looking at his throat on an exray, and cant pick their jaws up off the floor.
Also i think that as a classical pianist, your more skewed toward the instrumental side of music, vs the emotional side. A HUGE part of metal, is the lyricality.
Lyricality doesnt need to be heard, i would argue (As someone who is not trained) That a single instrument, can take on lyricality, an instrument played well, can almost be understood as if it were speaking through how it is played, and that is part of what i think you need to absorb, the vocalist is just another instrument, whether or not they are singing opera, or they are screaming their eyes out. I would argue however that some screaming can be musically pleasing, if that were not the case, you wouldnt have so many bands, putting in Huge musical breaks, with wildly heavy vocal parts in the silence.
Would i sit and listen to just the vocals from THIS song, no, would i listen to will Ramos scream an entire song solo no backing, yes. absolutely yes. However i have been listening to it for over 20 years at this point, and i can hear the nuances in screams that i am geussing you can not yet hear, because you are too blind sided by the overwhelming sound of it. But here is another thing, i dont think that musically, as a listener the nuances should matter, in fact i would pay a lot of money to be able to go back in time, and hear some of the songs that ive just heard recently, before i had the ear for them. and see how different it sounds to me. I would argue that this is more important. So you are closer to the version of someone that should hear it, as the nuances just become a part of the cacophony.
For some reason, all I could picture while listening to this song was Dani Filth riding an angry pig. Kind of cool and messed up at the same time. Much like life.
New Swallow the Sun and Fit for an Autopsy are out (in 2 days)!!🤘🏻🤘🏻
Do Rolo Tomassi "Flood Of Light"! You will love it ❤
...Desconozco si ya reaccionaron al proyecto de Shadow of Intent
, Disembodied Tyrant
Reaccionaron a the poetic edda
That was some excellent improving!
And I gather that you’re twice-a-week kind of guys now. I’ll have any newbies know that Great Measures used to put out every day, but not so much in their old age.
Hey guys. Please react/listen to
"Prognan - Tri Nacjie"
"Bloodbath - Eaten"
"Borknagar - Up North"
"Satyricon - Mother North"
"Immortal - Withstand the fall of time"
"Taake - Myr"
Oh I would love Eaten 😂
@@BashUin2Pieces aha...
Try Keep of Kalessin, namely Epistemology album
Snuffed on Sight when??
Time to try some Insomnium or Kaunis Kuolematon
the golden age of SoI ^^
uh oh LOL 😂
Hey Judson, what about opera? In many cases the singer "gets in the way" of the delivery of the lyrics because the focus is not the lyrics but the "tonal performance" (idk how to say it in english).
C'Mon dude, you have to give Judson some Nevermore! Maybe Dreaming Neon Black to tickle his "sad bone". Being rude, have heard plenty of B list bands to date. It's time for an A-lister!
I agree with Judson. Ultimately, you can refine any sound and use it musically. But if it doesn't sound musical on its own, how can it add anything substantial to the music?
I would give Judson some "Zen Metal" to listen to ("where do I place the one note that makes something complete out of almost nothing").
How about Bolt Thrower? You understand the words, the riff-based guitar playing is dynamic despite maximum distortion and there are also some bare bones there.
Zen metal?! Gotta hear this stuff~j
Borknagar _ Up North
Day 11 of requesting Diablo Swing Orchestra.
Love me some Shadow of Intent.
I'd like to recommend you show J some Symphony X.
Of Sins and Shadows is a great intro. Or something like Egypt. Or a deeper cut like A Winter's Dream Pts. I and II back to back. Work your way up to the more proggy stuff like The Odyssey, but don't start there.
Incorrect, if you isolate the vocals, its super fucking dope musically. what haha..its very rhythmic and is what it is, and its musically very well done, which is why it rules in.. music. sounds like after some songs, he hasn't connected with it and isn't actually listening to it, and by that I mean, He's not enjoying while hearing it so you're not hearing whats actually happening, as it is music. If you isolated, its going to be completely in time and rhythmic as the drums are and have notes in those vocals. bad take, Judson lol
still not done protest the hero? reckon judson would get a kick out of 'from the sky' or anything off the last record 🤷🏻♂️
music.ruclips.net/video/q4L6fe5v8_Y/видео.html&si=lUDW_yS77LF0on1G
Judson’s intro reminded me of this for some reason…
Think about it as Japanese rap - and it comes down to cadence and maybe melody. That's it.
For me those vocals were very musical, but it seems that i simply don't have the same definition of term musical. I am sure that he have taken the same amount of musical process than the other members to build is parts. Just making the choice of where in the song he will use different vocal techniques is one aspect of is work & we are not even taking about their execution. Making those vocals the way people that dig that will have a blast with the song; isn't just screaming in a Mic without forethought.
I see that in the same way than distortion on an electric guitar. It can make some notes less clear & perceptible, but like in the Intent to make a chugging sound, it is often what is so good about some riffs. Itis less melodic to the ear but no less musical. For guttural & other harsh type of vocals, it's almost always more about what it will makes us feel than a delivery to make sure we understand all the lyrics.
They say harsh vocals are pitchless but there is vibration, so there is frequency because that is what frequency is. You not using you true vocal folds its false folds and epiglottis are vibrating.
Personally, I don't like vocals like this... to highlight a contrast, I watched Mgla video and you guys had 20 mins discussion about lyrics. Did you like those vocals or you're ok as long as you can understand it? I think I'd rather listen to something like Burzum than deathcore vocals, but thats just me. You still can't understand shit, but its more musical in my mind. Rock on.
I can't with those vocals. While I was listening I was thinking "this must be deathcore, cuz I can't stand it. It's deathcore isn't it?"
It is a mixture of techno, hardcore and rap vibes, implemented with the usual instrumentalization in metal.
@@rand0m.u5er I don't mind the music that much, with better vocals I might dig it.
@@casachezdoom2588 Thank you.
If delivery of lyrics is the sole intent - choose speaking. There are types of singing in, for instance opera, rap, etc that are close to speaking. There is singing, just to make sound, wordless even, or in a made up language. And everything in between. It’s a style, an esthetic choice, right?
Why limit how you think about this kind of expression? And besides, it’s more close to “normal” singing than plain shouting or screaming than not. Ask anyone who’s ever tried it, you can really do some damage to yourself if you try to “just scream” some lyrics.