Viserys in HOTD is one of the best written characters ive ever seen. He's a genuinely good man who is deperately trying to balance what is right with what is necessary, but his flaw is that he's too trusting of those around him and refuses to acknowledge painful realities in an effort to stay loyal to both sides of his family. It was modern Shakespeare, pure and simple.
Virgin GoT Shills: "CG wings opening behind a woman standing in the center of the screen should be taught in film schools!!!" Chad HoTD: Makes a dying old man shambling towards a chair genuinely one of the best scenes in media.
That scene is the epitome of "framing." The shock and horror on Otto's face as he enters, then look of defeat when Viserys tells him "I will sit the throne today" was brilliant. Otto went through every stage of grief in a scene without a single word 😅
Viserys IS a bad king. In the show he is portrayed as a decent guy, but in both media he is the single person most responsible for the war of succession following his death. Yes, he is the only thing holding it together, but he is the one who sowed the cracks in the first place. Yes, the fighting is due to choices that Rhaenyra, Alicent, Otto and Daemon make independent of Viserys' wishes, and even contradicting them, but it was Viserys who pushed them all into this situation where they have a "kill or be killed" mindset. Viserys chose to remarry, because he was lonely or horny or unable to resist the pressures from courtiers to do so, and thus he opened the door to potential rivals for Rhaenyra's claim being born. He could have married an older woman, past her child-bearing years, or he could have refrained from sex wit Alicent, or put her on a strict birth control regimen. But he, instead, married and slept with a fertile young woman, and fathered sons, creating a problem for Rhaenyra's claim, and putting these children into a situation where their lives were a threat to the establishment. It's the same as the idea that Jaime & Cersei's crimes are justified because they are protecting their children, and if they don't murder people to cover up the secret, their kids might be murdered by Robert. This is not a case of "Oh dear, it's not our fault the world is prejudiced against our kids" it is a case of breaking the rules and laws of the society to have the kids, and then expecting to still get everything you want that society offers. Viserys: - should not have remarried, or at least, should not have had more children, if he was committed to Rhaenyra as his successor. - could have rolled with the law and expectations of all of society, and named Aegon as his heir and made other provisions for Rhaenyra. - could have sent Aegon to a monastery, Aemond to the Wall and their little brother to the Citadel to make it clear that they are not in the line of succession. - could have chosen ANYONE else as Hand, who did not have a vested familial interest in overthrowing his choice of succession. He could have named Daemon or Corlys or Lord Beesbury. Hell, he could (and probably should) have named Rhaenyra - could have kept Rhaenyra at court and given her actual power and authority, used her as a deputy, sent her on a royal progress to receive fealty, try criminals, adjudicate disputes and dispense royal largesse, reinforcing in everyone's eyes her association with the crown. Help her build relationships and secure allies to support her claim - could have refused to allow his sons to have dragons. - could have fired Otto when it was plain that he was working to marginalize Rhaenyra. The show makes it abundantly clear that both Rhaenyra and Alicent feel that they are in a "Win or die" scenario, that even with the best will in the world on the part of the other, she and her children are in danger from people who want the other side to prevail. Rhaenyra, as the named successor, and through her, her sons, are a threat to the legitimacy of Aegon's reign. The only thing she can do to protect herself is claim the throne. Alicent's children, as male offspring of the king, in a society that prefers the inheritance of sons over daughters, are threats to Rhaenyra and her sons, and the only way to ensure that they are not killed to protect Rhaenyra's line, is to claim the throne. This situation is ENTIRELY of VISERYS' making! And Viserys ought to know all of this. His grandfather, the Old King Jaehaerys, had an older brother who was killed, leaving two daughters, and an older sister, yet it was 14 year old Jaehaerys, not his adult sister, nor the daughters of his older brother, who took the crown. Then, when it came to the choice of grandsons, the lords selected the son of the younger brother, rather than the daughter of the elder, even though the latter had a son to succeed her, and the former only had a daughter. By the time Viserys' wife died and he named Rhaenyra as his successor, he KNEW what the situation was, what were the legal precedents and what the lords of Westeros would prefer. And in spite of this, he did nothing more than pick Rhaenyra and assume everything would go according to plan, while he kept impregnating his wife with sons, and then let his son marry and father MORE sons! Even Viserys' "good" actions cause problems, because he is being nice to people he loves, at the expense of the best decisions for the realm. He is indulging his wife or his daughter or his sons, and in doing so, creates problems for everyone else. Let's not forget that in his last episode, where he gets such props for his rising from his deathbed to defend his daughter's rights, while awesome on its own, in the context of the story, he is committing an act of tyranny, ordering the mutilation of Vaemon Velaryon for TELLING THE TRUTH. Any king who cuts out your tongue for telling the truth is basically in Joffrey territory. And it doesn't help Rhaenyra, since he is not effectively concealing the facts, as they are commonly known at court anyway. Rhaenyra might be more sympathetically depicted, but she is guilty of the exact same thing that Cersei did in the main series, and Viserys & Daemon are no more right to do what they did to Corlys' brother, than Jaime was for pushing Bran out the window.
Correct. Viserys was a good person but he was an awful king. He managed realm well enough, especially considering his condition but he mismanaged his succession so bad he caused a brutal civil war. He did love Aemma and Rhaenyra and he did want to do good by them but it ended up backfiring horribly. A good man trying to do good but goes about it foolishly naive and causes disaster as a result. It is tragic. Some of the choices you listed for him would only make things worse like sending his sons to the Wall or refusing to give them dragons. That would be a clear cut tyranny and a feminist-driven at that. He definitely gets a revolt on his hands and he definitely gets poisoned. Keeping Alicent on birth control or just not sleeping with her would be better but Otto would still find out. That said, I don't think he was sure Rhaenyra would be his heir after Aegon was born, until he commits to the idea near bonfire in Episode 3. At that point he is already tied to Hightowers. And he was fond and attracted to Alicent so he would still sleep with her. He sill could've prevented the Dance. For starts, it would go a long way if he stepped out of his Valyrian room and spend time with *all* of his children. Help raise Aegon and Aemond decent people instead of ignoring them. Do everything he can to prevent or at least mitigate the rivalry between the siblings. Take an interest in Rhaenyra's life. Intervene in time to stop his brother from grooming his daughter. Don't give Rhaenyra away to a gay man. It is one of the cases when being a bit of an overbearing father is for the best. None of those measures would've prevented the Dance but they would lay the groundwork to keep the peace later. And whatever the case, whether he did all that or just let things deteriorate to a knife fight at Driftmark, he could've still saved the situation by making a choice and strictly enforcing it: 1. Option A: get on the throne and publicly command Otto to call great lords to the King's Landing without telling anyone about his intentions. Once the conclave begins, publicly declare that it is his wish for Rhaenyra to be his heir. Then order her to step forward and question her if she wants to be the heir. In case she doesn't he would publicly acknowledge Aegon as his heir (if he refuses, give the throne to Aemond) and give Rhaenyra rights to Dragonstone. In case she does want to be his heir, order her to become the Hand and order the lords to reaffirm in no uncertain terms of their commitment to the idea of absolute cognatic primogeniture. Give Aegon the rights to Dragonstone and create new titles for Aemond and Daeron (if he is in the show). 2. Option B: just declare Aegon his heir and make the lords affirm this decision. Give Rhaenyra Dragonstone. That way everyone in the realm would know for certain who is the heir. It would still be disputed and there would still be grumbling, but the picture would be clear. And whoever holds Dragonstone would be safe from the Crown because of how easy it would be to protect the island. One who holds the Dragonstone automatically has more dragons and is safe from the Crown but the Crown is also safe because if the one on Dragonstone decides to take the throne, he or she would be violating the decision of the conclave and would receive little support.
@@tentonmotto6779 I don't see how refusing to give them dragons is tyranny. Who says they have a right to them? Normally it behooves the Targaryen kings to have their children ride dragons because they are incredible military & propaganda assets, but that's exactly why you don't want to let the people who are set up to rival your heirs have Westeros superweapons. If nothing else, refusing to let his sons have dragons sends the message that Viserys would want to send - that Rhaenyra is the only REAL Targaryen heir. As far as Option A, Viserys more or less did that. It didn't take. Option B would probably be the most sensible, but (jumping head to book lore here) nothing we know about Rhaenyra's character says she'd be content with a relatively weak holding. The show made explicit the point that neither Rhaenyra nor Alicent can take the chance of letting the other's branch take power, because her own is a threat to the security of their succession. Rhaenyra can't trust that Aegon will live and let live if she has Dragonstone. The place is too close to the Red Keep for safety, and having dragon superiority only emphasizes this. How can the crown be secure on Aegon & his line, when Rhaenyra's house is hanging over them like a Sword of Damocles? Can the royal Targaryens trust that the Dragonstone Targaryens will give them access to their eggs if those in the dragon pit run out? You can't really rule securely without a monopoly on dragons. Then there is the point that on its own, Dragonstone is not enough of a holding. Stannis was in a bad way as Lord of Dragonstone, and Robert also gave him overlordship of its pre-Conquest vassals. No way the crown lets House Velaryon & High Tide & Spice Town go with Dragonstone, and all those dragons are just mouths to feed for Rhaenyra, if all she gets is the castle & its island. When Rhaena was on her own early in Jaehaerys' reign, she wore out her welcome wherever she went just feeding one dragon, including Casterly Rock with the Lannister fortune. The Starks were not thrilled about feeding Silverwing during Alysanne's visit. These are Lords Paramount with vastly more resources than the incomes of Dragonstone. Which means Rhaenyra's dragon advantage will have to be subsidized by the crown, and we're right back to a source of conflict. The whole crux of the division of the royal line is that when you have a credible alternative claimant, regardless of their good will or intentions, people with an axe to grind with the regime in power are going to turn to that claimant for the solution to their problems, or even use them as an excuse to move against the ruler on behalf of the "rightful" claimant. Rhaenyra was ALWAYS going to face opposition, even if Alicent had loved her like a sister all the way through and raised her children to look up to Rhaenyra and be loyal to her. People unhappy with her decisions or policies would grumble that Alicent's children, the rightful, male, heirs were being held hostage by their usurping sister and good men should rise up and free them. They would have malcontents whispering dissension in their ears 24/7 in hopes of getting the brothers to turn on Rhaenyra and lend legitimacy to the opposition. Also, WHEN you do this is important. Is she already married to Daemon when she is removed in favor of Aegon? Is Daemon going to take that lying down? He's been ambitious since Day 1, and who is to stop him pressing the claim on his wife's behalf? The Sea Snake was doing a lot of that, as per the show, and he didn't have a dragon of half of Daemon's recklessness. What about while she is married to Laenor? How will the Velaryons, with the Sea Snake being the richest man in Westeros, and the royal admiral, with a wife and two children with dragons, going to feel about being passed over AGAIN? You can also criticize Viserys for marrying Rhaenyra to a gay man, but the real problem was letting a clearly different man father her children. Laenor being unwilling or unable to get her pregnant did not force her to have Harwin's kids. And it was not Viserys' idea to marry them, the Velaryons were pushing for it. The problem with that marriage is that he didn't address the issues that arose. There have been homosexual kings IRL, who still managed to get their wives pregnant (contrary to Braveheart, Edward II probably WAS the father of Edward III, and William Wallace certainly was not). The first time Rhaenyra bore a brown-haired kid with features markedly different from her own, Viserys should have been taking drastic steps. The point of all this, is that there is not a single or simple cure-all for the issues created by Viserys naming his daughter as the heir to the throne, while continuing to have more children. That's kind of the point, that it would take a lot of work, and staying on the case, not just saying "this is the way it's going to be," and shutting down all arguments, and demanding that both halves of the family play nice with the people he has placed in zero-sum opposition to them. Making Rhaenyra's succession secure is going to be an ongoing effort, requiring careful responses to a variety of situations that could arise in reaction. Likewise for locking her (and Daemon) out of the succession in favor of his sons. Because it's not as simple as whom he names heir, it's how the various people with power and influence respond, and the point that his own brother is a wildcard in the whole thing. Remember, originally, when it looked like the choices were Rhaenyra vs Daemon, Otto Hightower and Alicent were Team Rhaenyra, but after the Hightowers were ascendant, Daemon & Rhaenyra allied against them. The situation is constantly evolving and the King has to keep on top of this. Viserys would rather divy up the prizes and use that justify his expectation that everyone get along and play nice. Why can't Rhaenyra let Alicent & her sons have nice things? She's going to inherit the crown someday. Why can't Alicent & Otto accept that? It's been Viserys' policy before their marriage, and Otto agreed to it! If Alicent is so concerned about her kids, why doesn't she try harder to get along with his beloved daughter and her former friend? This is his thinking, and he is willfully blind to how his generosity to both sides creates difficulties for the other side, that his daughter's gain is his wife's and sons' loss, and whatever he gives his sons, he takes from his daughter.
@@Gunleaver 1. Refusal to give dragons to his other children would be a case of blatant mistreatment and favoritism. Even if Rhaenyra was male it would be a bad look and fester a ton of resentment and fear for Greens' safety. With Rhaenyra being female this looks even worse in the eyes of patriarchal Westeros, smallfolk in particular. Viserys would be known as weird arbitrary feminist who hates his own children and Greens would see him as an active threat. Most likely outcome is that Greens driven by paranoia would be forced to make some desperate move like poisoning both Viserys and Rhaenyra. And it is very likely that Aemond would still try something stupid like stealing a dragon for himself which could lead to some sort of tragedy. Also, such a refusal goes against feudal logic in general. As a feudal you want your family to be as prestigious and powerful as possible. Who know what would happen? 2. Viserys never reconfirmed Rhaenyra as his heir after Aegon was born. That was one of his crucial mistakes because legally it put Greens in the right and gave Hightowers, Lannisters and Baratheons a valid excuse to back Aegon. If she was reconfirmed the chances of pro-Green uprisal would be much lower. 3. Yes, a lot depends on the timing. If Viserys got out of his room and took an interest in succession early he could've done a lot to prevent the Dance. But after the situation already deteriorated (let's say after Driftmark) two sides already hate each other bitterly. More importantly they have valid reasons to fear each other. In this case giving all the power and advantage to one side and leaving other side at the mercy of a heir (same with refusal to give dragons) would result in some ugly consequences real quick. I know that giving two sides some sort of Cold War parity with King's Landing and Dragonstone would result in a shaky, uneasy peace situation. But any alternative is worse because it would force the losing side to do something desperate and stupid out of sheer fear, mainly fear of Daemon or Aemond. Leaving some of the children with nothing would make them vulnerable to repressions and in turn make them more likely to ususrp the throne, which in turn would justify the repressions. It is a vicious cycle that guarantees the conflict and some (or all) of Viserys children suffering, which presumably he does not want. Shaky parity at least has a chance to guarantee peace, as unlikely as it is. Dragons are equivalent to nukes in this story, so the Cold War logic applies here very well. 4. My main criticism is that Viserys did not care about situation at all. Rhaenyra already got in trouble because of her sexual adventure, proving that she has active sex drive. Viserys ought to know better than expect her to be satisfied with a homosexual partner. The probability of her being promiscous and giving birth to bastards is already there. 5. I agree that Viserys should've always taken an interest and responded to the situation in a dynamic way. It is alright for him to be generous to both sides for the reasons I gave, but at the same time he should've also made it very clear publicly who exactly should be the heir.
@@tentonmotto6779 1. My only argument here is that the feudal system is inherently geared toward favoritism, and a lord or king is EXPECTED to favor their heir. It helps reinforce the point that Rhaenyra gets a dragon because she's the heir. There is no established right or custom that the kids get dragons. Maegor did not get a dragon until Aegon I died. Aenys' sons did not have dragons in his lifetime. Aegon took Aenys' when he died, and Viserys never had one. Only 3 of Jaehaerys' kids got dragons, Aemon, Baelon & Alyssa. The bit with Daemon trying to give an egg to his kid by Mysaria proves that it's not automatic, and at the discretion of the king. You say the Greens might turn to poison, but if by some miracle Viserys and Rhaenyra die unnaturally after he refuses to give Aegon a dragon, that's when Daemon flies in on Caraxes, with the Velaryon fleet behind him (not to mention, Vhagar & Sea Smoke) and wrecks their shit. If just Rhaenyra dies, Daemon & the Velaryons are still going to be pissed (remember, Rhaenyra married Laenor when her brothers were little, so when the dragon issue comes to a head, the Velaryons are on Team Black) and accusing Otto from the get-go. His own ambitions aside, Daemon loves Rhaenyra avuncularly, and believes the worst of Otto and mistrusts his loyalty to Viserys. Basically, by taking a hard line that Rhaenyra is the heir and she gets the good stuff, Viserys would be put into a position where he would have to continually act to uphold that position. In OTL, he gave his sons enough to sow doubts, and make it seem like he was open to their succeeding, but putting them down or denying them would have the benefit of making it clear to everyone what the position of the crown is. That would be pretty understandable from a feudal standpoint. Yes, it's unfair to treat the boys as lessers and second class citizens, but that's the bed Viserys made when he named Rhaenyra heir. Keeping them down is ugly, but it increases Rhaenyra's chances of succeeding. 2. Maybe, but doing it over again could be seen as challenging the honor of the lords who swore the first time. It could also suggest that Viserys had doubts. Basically, people are going to read into it whatever they want. They can always argue the oaths were invalid because Rhaenyra does not have the right to succeed. Or that Rhaenyra's bastards relieved them of the obligation to uphold their oath, and so on. I don't think reinforcing the oaths would matter nearly as much as more practical steps to establish her as a political player, such as involving her in the governing of the realm, and delegating responsibilities to her, so people get into the habit of making their case to Rhaenyra and trying to please her, and seeing her as a source of political support. These things would go a lot further than another ceremony and empty promises. 3. After Driftmark, it's too late. The Dance was inevitable by that point. But even there, once it became clear the degree of enmity between Alicent & Rhaenyra, and their children, and that Aemond had altered the dragon equation, then Rhaenyra and Daemon should have come back to court with Viserys, and Otto sent home to Oldtown, or better, into exile. Blame him for the rumors. If you are going to threaten people with losing their tongues, exiling the guy who is actively working against your succession plan is hardly noticeable on the scale of tyranny. Other steps need to happen too. Instead of sending Daeron to Oldtown to foster with the Hightowers and reinforce his ties to that family, he should be squiring for Daemon, or fostering at High Tide, after all, as a dragon prince, he should be educated by other dragonriders, yes? And the Blacks have a hostage. Give Aegon & Helaena a household somewhere out of the way, and under the eye of Black supporters. Marry Aemond to an underdog faction abroad, maybe to an Yronwood, so his, and Vhagar's, energies are focused on making trouble for the rulers of Dorne, instead of bringing his in-laws into the struggle on the Greens' side. These are things that are plausible from the feudal perspective, that don't give them cause for complaint, WITHOUT being tyrannical. Marrying Aemond to power a GOOD thing in those terms, it is nominally an opportunity to carve out his own sphere of power, and it hinders the adversaries of the realm. If Alicent and Aemond object, they are the ones putting their political agenda ahead of the benefit of the realm, they are the ones saying they don't trust Viserys to protect them. Or Viserys needs to do this stuff with Rhaenyra. Telling her "Nah, but keep Dragonstone" is not much different than saying "No, Alicent, Rhaenyra is my heir." If he wants Aegon to inherit, or believes that his succession is the best way to preserve peace, he has to take down the Blacks, not buy them off with assets to turn against Aegon. First of all, NO marriage between Daemon & Rhaenyra. Instead, Aemond marries a daughter of Laena, and the other twin is married to someone of Viserys' choosing. Baela & her husband are confirmed as heirs to Driftmark, and Viserys accepts the illegitimacy of Rhaenyra's sons as a fact. He gives them small holdings and smaller incomes, so they can't support their dragons and are dependant on the crown for their upkeep, necessitating keeping their dragons at the Dragonpit, thus reducing their independence. And their names are now Waters or Rivers, not Velaryon. He gives Corlys more offices or power in apology for Rhaenyra's actions and in condolence for the loss of Laena & Laenor. These things will pretty effectively take the Velaryons out of Rhaenyra's camp. Send Daemon back to Pentos or Dorne or whatever, as I suggested for Aemond above. If Rhaenyra & Daemon have married secretly and she is pregnant with Aegon the Younger before Viserys finds out, that kid gets bastardized and their marriage annulled. This should be REALLY easy, since at the this point, the High Septon lives in Oldtown and between the influence of the Hightowers & the King, will be more than inclined to repudiate any marriage of this nature. Also, as with Rhaenyra, if Aegon is going to be his successor, HE needs to be involved, so that the lords know that they are not just handing over the government to the overproud and arrogant Otto when Viserys passes. Proclamations, ceremonies and oaths are nice, but they don't get the job done. Viserys' problem is that he was not willing to go beyond those things. 4. First of all, homosexuality is not well understood in Westeros. The prevailing sentiment was "I do not like fish, but when fish is set before me, I eat it." They expected Laenor to do his duty, and impregnate Rhaenyra. For all the attractiveness of most of the actresses playing nobles (on both shows), the reality, IRL & in the books, is that there are plenty of lords who have to marry women they find unattractive and get them pregnant. That's the deal and that's why the brothels in Kings Landing are so nice. Expecting Viserys to "know better" when this is the prevailing attitude of EVERYONE in the realm, is more ludicrous than expecting Laenor & Rhaenyra to have kids together. Secondly, taking Rhaenyra's sex drive into account is another thing that is Not Done, because in the eyes of Westeros, it marks her out as a wanton and unfit to be a proper wife, let alone a ruling queen. And here, there is more grounds. You simply cannot fuck around and expect to reign smoothly as a queen. It's one of those sacrifices you have to make for power. Yes, it's not fair that husbands are permitted to sleep around and wives are not, but a husband can deceive his wife about the parentage of their children, his bastards cannot be mistaken for her trueborn children. This is the ONE thing that is absolutely NOT Viserys' fault. First of all, telling the proud and already slighted Corlys "Nope, my daughter won't be marrying your son, because he is not man enough to keep her satisfied in bed, much less give her heirs" is basically the worst thing he can do in that situation. And no matter how diplomatically he phrases it, that's how it will be perceived in Westeros. The Velaryons want the marriage, which means Laenor wants the marriage if he wants to keep riding the gravy train and make his boyfriend happy with nice presents, and Viserys is going to have to give them something huge that they would want more than a grandson on the Iron Throne. Aside from abdicating in favor of Rhaenys, or sending Alicent & the kids to a convent, and marrying Laena himself, there is really no way to placate Corlys other than the marriage to Laenor. Secondly, Rhaenyra's conduct is inexcusable here. You are not entitled to orgasms or sexual pleasure in your choice partner. You are also not entitled to a crown or a throne, and if you want one, you have to play by society's rules to get it. Forget whether or not she is right to rebel against the sexual mores of her society, while still expecting to reap the rewards reserved for those who follow them, having bastards by Harwin was just STUPID. Blatantly lying about their paternity and demanding violent punishment for anyone who points out the truth is more tyrannical than Viserys' shortchanging his sons. 5. The problem is, generosity to the non-heirs undermines his efforts to make clear who the heir is. He should have given Rhaenyra stuff he did not give Aegon & co. All he gave her was words, not resources or power. That's why I said don't let them have dragons. Dragon are power, and Viserys is giving his sons the same kind of power he is giving his daughter. And that his brother and cousins of Velaryon have, for that matter. To make it clear that Rhaenyra is the heir, he has to give her power he did not give the others, and he has to set her above them in a tangible way, not just with private gestures, while Alicent is allowed to defy her in the Small Council.
@@tentonmotto6779 For the record, I really am enjoying the mutual engagement here. Please don't take my disagreement with your perspective for anger or resentment. We might disagree, but the arguments you make show you are putting thought into this, and have a better understanding of the issues than most commenters. I think we are pretty much in agreement in principle here, we just disagree on the ways to achieve what we agree must be done. Thanks.
I never would have imagined that an oldman slowly hobbling across a room and struggling to climb some stairs would carry such colossal emotional weight. But that’s top-tier writing for you.
Three scenes from episode 8 that got me all misty-eyed: - The long walk down the hall, with the crown drop & pick-up my Daemon. - The speech at the dinner table. ("I wish you see me as I am...the crown cannot stay strong if the house of the dragon remains divided. But set aside your grievances, if not for the sake of the crown, then for the sake of this old man who loves you all so dearly. ") - The dancing scene, with Viscerys staring wistfully, clearly overjoyed to see his family laughing and dancing. Brilliant stuff, it was. I can't think of a GOT episode that choked me up quite like this. I don't know if it will be topped.
As a father with a daughter, when he walked in to the throne room to defend his daughter hit me in the feels for sure. A good father will always stand for his baby girl no matter what.
Finally, a highlight of EFAP genuinely praising something! More of these, please! We gotta balance out the negativity! In all seriousness, highlights of hilarity, stupidity, and misery are great and all but it can get depressingly repetitive and this kind of stuff restores my faith in humanity, that we can tell great stories in great worlds with great characters.
@@denkerbosu3551 The second half of my comment clarifies this. I love ragging on terrible things as much as the next guy but when that’s all you do, it can take a toll on your psyche. This is crazy to think about, but there’s people who genuinely suffer from depression because they’re witnessing the destruction of what used to be their form of escapism. With that in mind, let’s try leading people desperate for a quick break toward what little escapism still remains instead of constantly forcing them to wage wars against the pricks defiling it. The latter only leads to even more suffering.
I've been thinking the same thing and intend to get more clips talking about things that're more positive. Arcane, Dead Space Remake, Andor, etc. I don't want this channel to just become all the moments everyone got angry and talked about how everything sucks, but also to celebrate the good stuff. I'd also like to eventually make meme compilations, like collecting all the Beuwen art segments. Those'll just take a bit more time. For now, the focus is getting anything I can from the latest EFAPs out in a timely manner and going through the most popular episodes of the show to compile some of the biggest clips first.
@EFAPhighlights I appreciate this, and agree with your thought process. It’s true that people focus on negativity more, most media is geared towards it. It’s nice to have wholesome stuff as well to counterbalance, otherwise you just get numb…and what’s more wholesome than a bunch of ppl gushing over a good bit of art?
Thanks wolf. Glad this isn’t all gonna just gonna be “look how dumb Doomer is” or “lolcow does lolcow thing, ridicule this person” (To be fair, Doomer said dumb stuff and couldn’t admit when he was wrong so it’s not like it’s unfair to point that out)
They mention how it came out the same time as TRoP but to add onto that... LOTR ended good. We got TRoP. GoT ended bad. We got HotD. Strange how that works out.
Hey, Wolf! Just wanna say thanks for the highlights. There's so many inside jokes and anecdotes I wanted to learn but never knew where to look for them (especially when they occur across multiple EFAPs). This channel remedies that. Appreciate it!
An hour after the season 2 trailers dropped. The timing is peak fire, bro. Either that or Wolf saw the trailers and rushed to get this done, in which case I correct to: Peak Wolf. Bro, he's absolute fire.
I don't know of any TV franchise which had such a turnaround as Game of Thrones. Season 8 basically wrote off nearly all wishes and wants for anything related to it. House of the Dragon had absolutely every single reason to fail, to be just a another part of the decline of the franchise. It is actually unbelievable how this ended up like it did. It's not perfect, but comparatively to what it potentially could've become with the current environment for TV productions, it's a small miracle.
Hollywood loves mistaking being “bigger” and “better” and looking at the trajectory of the story becoming more action-packed and bombastic, I feel dreaded. Sometimes less is more.
@jmaitland5709 Thankfully, the events of this story have already been written out by George. With that said, they could still fumble the execution or make more dumb changes, (like Rhaenys murdering thousands of people).
One of my favorite scenes I think is during the end of the Hunt, where Viserys kills the hart. Here's this purely recreational event put in in honor of him and his son, everyone's out to have a good time (and covertly politic), but when it comes time to actually to the deed, the mood completely changes. Instead of a big hoopla and celebration, the scene is tonally really dour and upsetting, as Viserys clearly takes no pleasure in the needless violence. He'll do what is absolutely necessary, for his family and for the sake of tradition, but no more. Plus it echoes those constant challenges of others questioning whether or not he is fit to be king; he didn't get the white hart they wanted, he missed the first stab, and overall it was just kind of a miserable time.
Paddy Constantine is up there with Doug Jones in his ability to take any role, and convey the emotions and current state of that character perfectly and COMPLETELY wordlessly.
Viserys was a terrible father to the Green Targaryens. He deserves more shit for that, honestly. He shows no sympathy or compassion for Aemond after he got an eye slashed out.
Imagine fearing a zombie invasion that gets solved in a day by a little girl with a knife. (This is sarcasm I know the books are different. I’m making fun of the show)
We don't know that the books are different. How and if the Army of the Dead and White Walkers are defeated hasn't been published yet. At this rate it won't be published ever.
@@VitalVampyr Yeah, when the showrunners had first started writing the show I remember they said George had told them how the book ends. My personal take is that what they did is literally what George was thinking, but they messed up the execution badly.
@@TheManofThings777 Well we can be pretty confident that the White Walkers storyline won't end with Arya killing the Night King because the Night King was created for the show (based very loosely on the books' Night's King who died centuries before the events of the books).
Marrying Alicent Hightower supposedly because she was nice to him during their chats and the influence of Otto, his Hand, was an unforgivable major mistake. Making his daughter heir over Daemon was another mistake that caused great unease and chaos within the realm weakening his rule. Marrying his daughter to Laenor knowing his "condition" was also a "semi-mistake" as Daemon would have been the stronger choice, not executing Cole for "murdering" someone during his daughter's wedding. These mistakes lead to Team Green existing in the first place, leads to Aegon and Armond both having dragons, leads to Armond losing an eye creating resentment and overcompensating as a warrior, leads to Laena dying in childbirth and losing her dragon to the other team, leads to Cole leading Team Green and becoming Hand, and the overall civil war. So, he was by no means a "good king" and I fear this group is promoting his virtues to talk trash the other characters. Now, that all said, the writing of King Viserys and his acting were the best of the year, but he was not a good king by any account.
Didn't watch the show but his insistence in the book that his daughter would follow him even though that ignored a law put in place that said sons inherit did if not cause the war helped it to happen. It sounds like the show played it differently.
@@Ganom-ng1zt the dance of dragons, the civil war that killed every Targaryen dragon and resulted in the regency of Aegon III, will be portrayed in the next season. Viserys actions and inactions (make a Woman the heir despite in opposition to Westorsi culture, failing to groom Rhaenyra for rule, not uniting his heirs with marriage, etc.) directly caused this civil war.
I love how the fappers are gushing over Viserys walking to the throne It's entirely styling on S8 finale where we got tons of walking, up the stairs, setting freaking chairs and HotD is like "Yea this is how you actually make it good and have meaning"
"Robert was right. Look at Season 8. They should've killed Danny." - basically Mauler. Huh. So, pregnant Danny gets murdered, making Drogo furious beyond belief, and without Danny there to calm his most brutal instincts, he brute forces the Dothraki across the narrow sea and absolutely decimate the realm, splitting it in half, if not more segments. Meanwhile there are no longer 3 dragons available, so the Night King marches south basically unimpeded, easily wiping out the North, and then gathering up a few ten thousand dead bodies for his army, and more and more as he marches south, with no one able to even come close to stopping him, his army growing with every step, until the entire realm falls, easily, within a year. ... Robert was absolutely not right. Love him that I do.
For anyone that doesn’t follow Paddy on instagram, he played his performance as a love story. Everything he just lets happen in the show is just him punishing himself for killing his wife.
That... does make sense in a way? Though I don't think the script really obviously points to that, but I can sort of see it. He starts by blaming himself for the death of his wife, he probably believes is given another chance at love with his second wife, and deceives himself thinking all is fine? The actor put on a phenomenal performance, true
Hey Wolf! Dare I ask what you have been reading recently? Myself, I have been steadily going through what you and Shad had recommended, I'm on volume nine of Wheel of Time right now, will be going to A Song of Ice and Fire next. I still need to finish Dark Tower, The Expanse and Stormlight Archives, though I enjoyed what I read of those as well. I finally read "all" of The Lord of the Rings, right at the start of the year, I skimmed through the Tom Bombadil part, knowing how... odd... it was. I plan to get English copies of those and The Hobbit (I own translations of them) for my birthday this year (around the same time as Bilbo's and Frodo's as it happens, will definitely read The Hobbit on Sep 22nd). Well, good health to you, sir, for all it's worth!
Well, finish The Expanse because its ending is spectacular (and pick up the novella collection, one of the stories takes place after the final book). Otherwise, I'm currently on the fifth Red Rising book, "Dark Age." The series has quickly become one of my favorite sci-fi stories, the first three books going on a similar arc as the original Star Wars films, though with an emphasis on politics and class divide, and the latter books being what I wish the sequel trilogy would have been. Very very good stuff, and the audiobooks are fantastic.
@@EFAPHighlightsgood to hear that the series ended and that the ending was great I was hesitant for years since i don't want to start another unifinished series but now I'm definetly picking it up
@@EFAPHighlights Good to hear your enjoying red rising, I remember it was one of the books you showed off on Twitter before leaving. If I may be so bold, are you still working on your fantasy book? That preview you released a few years ago now was very promising and I've read Iridescent twice now I think. It's was clear that writing is something you are passionate about, your videos about creative writing were my favourite videos of yours. Why people like horror, what makes good horror, how good writers can turn bad ideas into great stories. They are genuinely fascinating videos. Those horror ones got me into reading Mountains of madness. It was you who actually got me into writing, which came at a point where I was completely directionless. I'm still currently working on my own book, nearing the end of the planning phase and getting close to starting writing. (I hope.) Glad that your doing better now and if I could make a book suggestion, I would suggest some of the recent Alien novels by Titan books. The cold forge, it's sequel 'Into Charybdis, along with Phalanx and Aliens: Bishop are some of the best novels I've read in the Alien franchise period. There was a time where those Titan Alien novels were keeping the franchise on life support. Out of all of them, Into Charybdis was my personal favourite. It was a rollercoaster of emotions and I found it as good as the best of the Expanse. (This being Babylon's Ashes, however I am a massive Alien nut so I have a strong bias.) However if you do read I.C, best to read Cold forge first.
I was surprised by how much I loved it, especially since MauLer and I spent months shitting on it before it came out, but it totally won us over. Definitely looking forward to Season 2. I made it about halfway through Fire and Blood before bailing, I thought it was really boringly told.
@@EFAPHighlights Listen to the audiobook, Simon Vance is an awesome narrator it's 26 hours and 24 minutes long, so compared to your EFAP episodes it's a piece of cake. If you want to avoid spoilers read only until the heirs of the dragon a question of succession.
Personally, I'm hoping that they adapt the War of the Ninepenny Kings. It's an almost direct prequel to Robert's rebellion which features Ned and Robert's dads, as well as Jon Arryn, and a young Barristan Selmy fighting a two-headed Pirate King.
Viserys was a good king that did a good job. Until he failed laughably at the final stretch. Part of the job of a monarch is ensuring stability of the realm, especially with regards to the transition of power.
The difference between robert and viserys was that Robert’s vices and selfishness put the kingdom in a horrible situation. Think of Robert like Henry the 8th, but swap out the wars with whores, both kings bankrupted the kingdom with their selfish day to day spending. Viserys was not a great king, but he certainly wasn’t bad by any standards, fantasy or by our own historical standards.
i wonder the ending are they are showing us how dragons are gone? what happens with alys rivers? in the books, she vanishes. that it. we never hear about her again.
Rob was an awful king, he ignored his responsibilities and bankrupted his kingdom. Its his responsibility to rule the kingdom not the council they're there to advise him, not make decisions.
@@thesaintzor625 yeah, I was gonna write SOFI. then i thought does this even makes sense 😂. I still got it wrong. Shows how much I care. 😀 PS i am a fire over ice guy so the mistake. I like ice if fire doesn't exist
Completely. It takes place 200 years before game of thrones and it’s very easy to follow with the amount of characters + conflict. The “dance of dragons” war that will take place is even referred to in game of thrones iirc, it really is a true prequel in every sense of the word.
He was a TERRIBLE KING, and a pathetic weakling...... he caused the downfall of his house and the deaths of MOST of his loved ones, and almost the end of the world as the Targaryen kings knew about the prophecy of the long winter, it was HIS DUTY to produce a male heir to continue the bloodline, it was HIS DUTY to ensure dragons continued to live to ensure Targaryen control, it was HIS DUTY to enforce unity through fear if necessary, he traded it all for love, and almost caused the end of the world, a leader should never put love over duty, a leader should always sacrifice his own satisfaction, HIS OWN FEELINGS for the sake of those who depend on him.
@The2012Aceman "Sacrifice" "His own ends" These by default cannot go together. It's one or the other. Would he be selfish? Or is he sacrificing for his duty?
@@franzosisch5965 "Sacrificing anything and anyone" is not usually a "good" trait. I don't believe we've ever been writing about noble humans in history, people we should revere, and had it said of them "they were totally willing to sacrifice anyone to get what they wanted."
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
The scene of him sitting and watching his whole family at the dinner table is just amazing, it’s simple but so brilliant
And as soon as he leaves, shit hits the fan. At least he died, thinking he achieved his goal. Peace within the Family.
"Rings of Power has started filming. Has HotD started yet?"
One Year Later
"HotD is coming out. RoP doesn't have a date yet"
Viserys in HOTD is one of the best written characters ive ever seen. He's a genuinely good man who is deperately trying to balance what is right with what is necessary, but his flaw is that he's too trusting of those around him and refuses to acknowledge painful realities in an effort to stay loyal to both sides of his family.
It was modern Shakespeare, pure and simple.
No joke probably one of the best portrayals of a king losing it all without becoming an idiot.
Virgin GoT Shills: "CG wings opening behind a woman standing in the center of the screen should be taught in film schools!!!"
Chad HoTD: Makes a dying old man shambling towards a chair genuinely one of the best scenes in media.
That scene is the epitome of "framing." The shock and horror on Otto's face as he enters, then look of defeat when Viserys tells him "I will sit the throne today" was brilliant. Otto went through every stage of grief in a scene without a single word 😅
If they don’t shit the bed in the end, Toranaga in Shogun could end up at the same tier as King Viserys. Both brilliant actors and characters.
Didn't or Don't
@@davidcopperfield5345 Sorry, English is not my first language
So far Toranaga has been the same tier, hope it stays that way.
That would be cool, really been enjoying Shogun so far
@@nont18411 No problem. I just got confused.
The timing is impressive Wolf, as they just dropped season 2 trailers lol
This is Wolf?
@@davidcopperfield5345 Yeah wolf does the highlights channel
That wasn't planned, but cool that it happened that way
@@jmaitland5709 Oh cool
Viserys IS a bad king. In the show he is portrayed as a decent guy, but in both media he is the single person most responsible for the war of succession following his death. Yes, he is the only thing holding it together, but he is the one who sowed the cracks in the first place. Yes, the fighting is due to choices that Rhaenyra, Alicent, Otto and Daemon make independent of Viserys' wishes, and even contradicting them, but it was Viserys who pushed them all into this situation where they have a "kill or be killed" mindset. Viserys chose to remarry, because he was lonely or horny or unable to resist the pressures from courtiers to do so, and thus he opened the door to potential rivals for Rhaenyra's claim being born. He could have married an older woman, past her child-bearing years, or he could have refrained from sex wit Alicent, or put her on a strict birth control regimen. But he, instead, married and slept with a fertile young woman, and fathered sons, creating a problem for Rhaenyra's claim, and putting these children into a situation where their lives were a threat to the establishment. It's the same as the idea that Jaime & Cersei's crimes are justified because they are protecting their children, and if they don't murder people to cover up the secret, their kids might be murdered by Robert. This is not a case of "Oh dear, it's not our fault the world is prejudiced against our kids" it is a case of breaking the rules and laws of the society to have the kids, and then expecting to still get everything you want that society offers.
Viserys:
- should not have remarried, or at least, should not have had more children, if he was committed to Rhaenyra as his successor.
- could have rolled with the law and expectations of all of society, and named Aegon as his heir and made other provisions for Rhaenyra.
- could have sent Aegon to a monastery, Aemond to the Wall and their little brother to the Citadel to make it clear that they are not in the line of succession.
- could have chosen ANYONE else as Hand, who did not have a vested familial interest in overthrowing his choice of succession. He could have named Daemon or Corlys or Lord Beesbury. Hell, he could (and probably should) have named Rhaenyra
- could have kept Rhaenyra at court and given her actual power and authority, used her as a deputy, sent her on a royal progress to receive fealty, try criminals, adjudicate disputes and dispense royal largesse, reinforcing in everyone's eyes her association with the crown. Help her build relationships and secure allies to support her claim
- could have refused to allow his sons to have dragons.
- could have fired Otto when it was plain that he was working to marginalize Rhaenyra.
The show makes it abundantly clear that both Rhaenyra and Alicent feel that they are in a "Win or die" scenario, that even with the best will in the world on the part of the other, she and her children are in danger from people who want the other side to prevail. Rhaenyra, as the named successor, and through her, her sons, are a threat to the legitimacy of Aegon's reign. The only thing she can do to protect herself is claim the throne. Alicent's children, as male offspring of the king, in a society that prefers the inheritance of sons over daughters, are threats to Rhaenyra and her sons, and the only way to ensure that they are not killed to protect Rhaenyra's line, is to claim the throne. This situation is ENTIRELY of VISERYS' making!
And Viserys ought to know all of this. His grandfather, the Old King Jaehaerys, had an older brother who was killed, leaving two daughters, and an older sister, yet it was 14 year old Jaehaerys, not his adult sister, nor the daughters of his older brother, who took the crown. Then, when it came to the choice of grandsons, the lords selected the son of the younger brother, rather than the daughter of the elder, even though the latter had a son to succeed her, and the former only had a daughter. By the time Viserys' wife died and he named Rhaenyra as his successor, he KNEW what the situation was, what were the legal precedents and what the lords of Westeros would prefer. And in spite of this, he did nothing more than pick Rhaenyra and assume everything would go according to plan, while he kept impregnating his wife with sons, and then let his son marry and father MORE sons!
Even Viserys' "good" actions cause problems, because he is being nice to people he loves, at the expense of the best decisions for the realm. He is indulging his wife or his daughter or his sons, and in doing so, creates problems for everyone else. Let's not forget that in his last episode, where he gets such props for his rising from his deathbed to defend his daughter's rights, while awesome on its own, in the context of the story, he is committing an act of tyranny, ordering the mutilation of Vaemon Velaryon for TELLING THE TRUTH. Any king who cuts out your tongue for telling the truth is basically in Joffrey territory. And it doesn't help Rhaenyra, since he is not effectively concealing the facts, as they are commonly known at court anyway. Rhaenyra might be more sympathetically depicted, but she is guilty of the exact same thing that Cersei did in the main series, and Viserys & Daemon are no more right to do what they did to Corlys' brother, than Jaime was for pushing Bran out the window.
Correct. Viserys was a good person but he was an awful king. He managed realm well enough, especially considering his condition but he mismanaged his succession so bad he caused a brutal civil war. He did love Aemma and Rhaenyra and he did want to do good by them but it ended up backfiring horribly. A good man trying to do good but goes about it foolishly naive and causes disaster as a result. It is tragic.
Some of the choices you listed for him would only make things worse like sending his sons to the Wall or refusing to give them dragons. That would be a clear cut tyranny and a feminist-driven at that. He definitely gets a revolt on his hands and he definitely gets poisoned. Keeping Alicent on birth control or just not sleeping with her would be better but Otto would still find out. That said, I don't think he was sure Rhaenyra would be his heir after Aegon was born, until he commits to the idea near bonfire in Episode 3. At that point he is already tied to Hightowers. And he was fond and attracted to Alicent so he would still sleep with her.
He sill could've prevented the Dance. For starts, it would go a long way if he stepped out of his Valyrian room and spend time with *all* of his children. Help raise Aegon and Aemond decent people instead of ignoring them. Do everything he can to prevent or at least mitigate the rivalry between the siblings. Take an interest in Rhaenyra's life. Intervene in time to stop his brother from grooming his daughter. Don't give Rhaenyra away to a gay man. It is one of the cases when being a bit of an overbearing father is for the best. None of those measures would've prevented the Dance but they would lay the groundwork to keep the peace later.
And whatever the case, whether he did all that or just let things deteriorate to a knife fight at Driftmark, he could've still saved the situation by making a choice and strictly enforcing it:
1. Option A: get on the throne and publicly command Otto to call great lords to the King's Landing without telling anyone about his intentions. Once the conclave begins, publicly declare that it is his wish for Rhaenyra to be his heir. Then order her to step forward and question her if she wants to be the heir. In case she doesn't he would publicly acknowledge Aegon as his heir (if he refuses, give the throne to Aemond) and give Rhaenyra rights to Dragonstone. In case she does want to be his heir, order her to become the Hand and order the lords to reaffirm in no uncertain terms of their commitment to the idea of absolute cognatic primogeniture. Give Aegon the rights to Dragonstone and create new titles for Aemond and Daeron (if he is in the show).
2. Option B: just declare Aegon his heir and make the lords affirm this decision. Give Rhaenyra Dragonstone.
That way everyone in the realm would know for certain who is the heir. It would still be disputed and there would still be grumbling, but the picture would be clear. And whoever holds Dragonstone would be safe from the Crown because of how easy it would be to protect the island. One who holds the Dragonstone automatically has more dragons and is safe from the Crown but the Crown is also safe because if the one on Dragonstone decides to take the throne, he or she would be violating the decision of the conclave and would receive little support.
@@tentonmotto6779 I don't see how refusing to give them dragons is tyranny. Who says they have a right to them? Normally it behooves the Targaryen kings to have their children ride dragons because they are incredible military & propaganda assets, but that's exactly why you don't want to let the people who are set up to rival your heirs have Westeros superweapons. If nothing else, refusing to let his sons have dragons sends the message that Viserys would want to send - that Rhaenyra is the only REAL Targaryen heir.
As far as Option A, Viserys more or less did that. It didn't take.
Option B would probably be the most sensible, but (jumping head to book lore here) nothing we know about Rhaenyra's character says she'd be content with a relatively weak holding. The show made explicit the point that neither Rhaenyra nor Alicent can take the chance of letting the other's branch take power, because her own is a threat to the security of their succession. Rhaenyra can't trust that Aegon will live and let live if she has Dragonstone. The place is too close to the Red Keep for safety, and having dragon superiority only emphasizes this. How can the crown be secure on Aegon & his line, when Rhaenyra's house is hanging over them like a Sword of Damocles? Can the royal Targaryens trust that the Dragonstone Targaryens will give them access to their eggs if those in the dragon pit run out? You can't really rule securely without a monopoly on dragons.
Then there is the point that on its own, Dragonstone is not enough of a holding. Stannis was in a bad way as Lord of Dragonstone, and Robert also gave him overlordship of its pre-Conquest vassals. No way the crown lets House Velaryon & High Tide & Spice Town go with Dragonstone, and all those dragons are just mouths to feed for Rhaenyra, if all she gets is the castle & its island. When Rhaena was on her own early in Jaehaerys' reign, she wore out her welcome wherever she went just feeding one dragon, including Casterly Rock with the Lannister fortune. The Starks were not thrilled about feeding Silverwing during Alysanne's visit. These are Lords Paramount with vastly more resources than the incomes of Dragonstone. Which means Rhaenyra's dragon advantage will have to be subsidized by the crown, and we're right back to a source of conflict.
The whole crux of the division of the royal line is that when you have a credible alternative claimant, regardless of their good will or intentions, people with an axe to grind with the regime in power are going to turn to that claimant for the solution to their problems, or even use them as an excuse to move against the ruler on behalf of the "rightful" claimant. Rhaenyra was ALWAYS going to face opposition, even if Alicent had loved her like a sister all the way through and raised her children to look up to Rhaenyra and be loyal to her. People unhappy with her decisions or policies would grumble that Alicent's children, the rightful, male, heirs were being held hostage by their usurping sister and good men should rise up and free them. They would have malcontents whispering dissension in their ears 24/7 in hopes of getting the brothers to turn on Rhaenyra and lend legitimacy to the opposition.
Also, WHEN you do this is important. Is she already married to Daemon when she is removed in favor of Aegon? Is Daemon going to take that lying down? He's been ambitious since Day 1, and who is to stop him pressing the claim on his wife's behalf? The Sea Snake was doing a lot of that, as per the show, and he didn't have a dragon of half of Daemon's recklessness. What about while she is married to Laenor? How will the Velaryons, with the Sea Snake being the richest man in Westeros, and the royal admiral, with a wife and two children with dragons, going to feel about being passed over AGAIN?
You can also criticize Viserys for marrying Rhaenyra to a gay man, but the real problem was letting a clearly different man father her children. Laenor being unwilling or unable to get her pregnant did not force her to have Harwin's kids. And it was not Viserys' idea to marry them, the Velaryons were pushing for it. The problem with that marriage is that he didn't address the issues that arose. There have been homosexual kings IRL, who still managed to get their wives pregnant (contrary to Braveheart, Edward II probably WAS the father of Edward III, and William Wallace certainly was not). The first time Rhaenyra bore a brown-haired kid with features markedly different from her own, Viserys should have been taking drastic steps.
The point of all this, is that there is not a single or simple cure-all for the issues created by Viserys naming his daughter as the heir to the throne, while continuing to have more children. That's kind of the point, that it would take a lot of work, and staying on the case, not just saying "this is the way it's going to be," and shutting down all arguments, and demanding that both halves of the family play nice with the people he has placed in zero-sum opposition to them. Making Rhaenyra's succession secure is going to be an ongoing effort, requiring careful responses to a variety of situations that could arise in reaction. Likewise for locking her (and Daemon) out of the succession in favor of his sons. Because it's not as simple as whom he names heir, it's how the various people with power and influence respond, and the point that his own brother is a wildcard in the whole thing. Remember, originally, when it looked like the choices were Rhaenyra vs Daemon, Otto Hightower and Alicent were Team Rhaenyra, but after the Hightowers were ascendant, Daemon & Rhaenyra allied against them.
The situation is constantly evolving and the King has to keep on top of this. Viserys would rather divy up the prizes and use that justify his expectation that everyone get along and play nice. Why can't Rhaenyra let Alicent & her sons have nice things? She's going to inherit the crown someday. Why can't Alicent & Otto accept that? It's been Viserys' policy before their marriage, and Otto agreed to it! If Alicent is so concerned about her kids, why doesn't she try harder to get along with his beloved daughter and her former friend? This is his thinking, and he is willfully blind to how his generosity to both sides creates difficulties for the other side, that his daughter's gain is his wife's and sons' loss, and whatever he gives his sons, he takes from his daughter.
@@Gunleaver 1. Refusal to give dragons to his other children would be a case of blatant mistreatment and favoritism. Even if Rhaenyra was male it would be a bad look and fester a ton of resentment and fear for Greens' safety. With Rhaenyra being female this looks even worse in the eyes of patriarchal Westeros, smallfolk in particular. Viserys would be known as weird arbitrary feminist who hates his own children and Greens would see him as an active threat. Most likely outcome is that Greens driven by paranoia would be forced to make some desperate move like poisoning both Viserys and Rhaenyra. And it is very likely that Aemond would still try something stupid like stealing a dragon for himself which could lead to some sort of tragedy. Also, such a refusal goes against feudal logic in general. As a feudal you want your family to be as prestigious and powerful as possible. Who know what would happen?
2. Viserys never reconfirmed Rhaenyra as his heir after Aegon was born. That was one of his crucial mistakes because legally it put Greens in the right and gave Hightowers, Lannisters and Baratheons a valid excuse to back Aegon. If she was reconfirmed the chances of pro-Green uprisal would be much lower.
3. Yes, a lot depends on the timing. If Viserys got out of his room and took an interest in succession early he could've done a lot to prevent the Dance. But after the situation already deteriorated (let's say after Driftmark) two sides already hate each other bitterly. More importantly they have valid reasons to fear each other. In this case giving all the power and advantage to one side and leaving other side at the mercy of a heir (same with refusal to give dragons) would result in some ugly consequences real quick. I know that giving two sides some sort of Cold War parity with King's Landing and Dragonstone would result in a shaky, uneasy peace situation. But any alternative is worse because it would force the losing side to do something desperate and stupid out of sheer fear, mainly fear of Daemon or Aemond. Leaving some of the children with nothing would make them vulnerable to repressions and in turn make them more likely to ususrp the throne, which in turn would justify the repressions. It is a vicious cycle that guarantees the conflict and some (or all) of Viserys children suffering, which presumably he does not want. Shaky parity at least has a chance to guarantee peace, as unlikely as it is. Dragons are equivalent to nukes in this story, so the Cold War logic applies here very well.
4. My main criticism is that Viserys did not care about situation at all. Rhaenyra already got in trouble because of her sexual adventure, proving that she has active sex drive. Viserys ought to know better than expect her to be satisfied with a homosexual partner. The probability of her being promiscous and giving birth to bastards is already there.
5. I agree that Viserys should've always taken an interest and responded to the situation in a dynamic way. It is alright for him to be generous to both sides for the reasons I gave, but at the same time he should've also made it very clear publicly who exactly should be the heir.
@@tentonmotto6779
1. My only argument here is that the feudal system is inherently geared toward favoritism, and a lord or king is EXPECTED to favor their heir. It helps reinforce the point that Rhaenyra gets a dragon because she's the heir. There is no established right or custom that the kids get dragons. Maegor did not get a dragon until Aegon I died. Aenys' sons did not have dragons in his lifetime. Aegon took Aenys' when he died, and Viserys never had one. Only 3 of Jaehaerys' kids got dragons, Aemon, Baelon & Alyssa. The bit with Daemon trying to give an egg to his kid by Mysaria proves that it's not automatic, and at the discretion of the king. You say the Greens might turn to poison, but if by some miracle Viserys and Rhaenyra die unnaturally after he refuses to give Aegon a dragon, that's when Daemon flies in on Caraxes, with the Velaryon fleet behind him (not to mention, Vhagar & Sea Smoke) and wrecks their shit. If just Rhaenyra dies, Daemon & the Velaryons are still going to be pissed (remember, Rhaenyra married Laenor when her brothers were little, so when the dragon issue comes to a head, the Velaryons are on Team Black) and accusing Otto from the get-go. His own ambitions aside, Daemon loves Rhaenyra avuncularly, and believes the worst of Otto and mistrusts his loyalty to Viserys.
Basically, by taking a hard line that Rhaenyra is the heir and she gets the good stuff, Viserys would be put into a position where he would have to continually act to uphold that position. In OTL, he gave his sons enough to sow doubts, and make it seem like he was open to their succeeding, but putting them down or denying them would have the benefit of making it clear to everyone what the position of the crown is. That would be pretty understandable from a feudal standpoint. Yes, it's unfair to treat the boys as lessers and second class citizens, but that's the bed Viserys made when he named Rhaenyra heir. Keeping them down is ugly, but it increases Rhaenyra's chances of succeeding.
2. Maybe, but doing it over again could be seen as challenging the honor of the lords who swore the first time. It could also suggest that Viserys had doubts. Basically, people are going to read into it whatever they want. They can always argue the oaths were invalid because Rhaenyra does not have the right to succeed. Or that Rhaenyra's bastards relieved them of the obligation to uphold their oath, and so on. I don't think reinforcing the oaths would matter nearly as much as more practical steps to establish her as a political player, such as involving her in the governing of the realm, and delegating responsibilities to her, so people get into the habit of making their case to Rhaenyra and trying to please her, and seeing her as a source of political support. These things would go a lot further than another ceremony and empty promises.
3. After Driftmark, it's too late. The Dance was inevitable by that point. But even there, once it became clear the degree of enmity between Alicent & Rhaenyra, and their children, and that Aemond had altered the dragon equation, then Rhaenyra and Daemon should have come back to court with Viserys, and Otto sent home to Oldtown, or better, into exile. Blame him for the rumors. If you are going to threaten people with losing their tongues, exiling the guy who is actively working against your succession plan is hardly noticeable on the scale of tyranny. Other steps need to happen too. Instead of sending Daeron to Oldtown to foster with the Hightowers and reinforce his ties to that family, he should be squiring for Daemon, or fostering at High Tide, after all, as a dragon prince, he should be educated by other dragonriders, yes? And the Blacks have a hostage. Give Aegon & Helaena a household somewhere out of the way, and under the eye of Black supporters. Marry Aemond to an underdog faction abroad, maybe to an Yronwood, so his, and Vhagar's, energies are focused on making trouble for the rulers of Dorne, instead of bringing his in-laws into the struggle on the Greens' side. These are things that are plausible from the feudal perspective, that don't give them cause for complaint, WITHOUT being tyrannical. Marrying Aemond to power a GOOD thing in those terms, it is nominally an opportunity to carve out his own sphere of power, and it hinders the adversaries of the realm. If Alicent and Aemond object, they are the ones putting their political agenda ahead of the benefit of the realm, they are the ones saying they don't trust Viserys to protect them.
Or Viserys needs to do this stuff with Rhaenyra. Telling her "Nah, but keep Dragonstone" is not much different than saying "No, Alicent, Rhaenyra is my heir." If he wants Aegon to inherit, or believes that his succession is the best way to preserve peace, he has to take down the Blacks, not buy them off with assets to turn against Aegon. First of all, NO marriage between Daemon & Rhaenyra. Instead, Aemond marries a daughter of Laena, and the other twin is married to someone of Viserys' choosing. Baela & her husband are confirmed as heirs to Driftmark, and Viserys accepts the illegitimacy of Rhaenyra's sons as a fact. He gives them small holdings and smaller incomes, so they can't support their dragons and are dependant on the crown for their upkeep, necessitating keeping their dragons at the Dragonpit, thus reducing their independence. And their names are now Waters or Rivers, not Velaryon. He gives Corlys more offices or power in apology for Rhaenyra's actions and in condolence for the loss of Laena & Laenor. These things will pretty effectively take the Velaryons out of Rhaenyra's camp. Send Daemon back to Pentos or Dorne or whatever, as I suggested for Aemond above. If Rhaenyra & Daemon have married secretly and she is pregnant with Aegon the Younger before Viserys finds out, that kid gets bastardized and their marriage annulled. This should be REALLY easy, since at the this point, the High Septon lives in Oldtown and between the influence of the Hightowers & the King, will be more than inclined to repudiate any marriage of this nature. Also, as with Rhaenyra, if Aegon is going to be his successor, HE needs to be involved, so that the lords know that they are not just handing over the government to the overproud and arrogant Otto when Viserys passes.
Proclamations, ceremonies and oaths are nice, but they don't get the job done. Viserys' problem is that he was not willing to go beyond those things.
4. First of all, homosexuality is not well understood in Westeros. The prevailing sentiment was "I do not like fish, but when fish is set before me, I eat it." They expected Laenor to do his duty, and impregnate Rhaenyra. For all the attractiveness of most of the actresses playing nobles (on both shows), the reality, IRL & in the books, is that there are plenty of lords who have to marry women they find unattractive and get them pregnant. That's the deal and that's why the brothels in Kings Landing are so nice. Expecting Viserys to "know better" when this is the prevailing attitude of EVERYONE in the realm, is more ludicrous than expecting Laenor & Rhaenyra to have kids together.
Secondly, taking Rhaenyra's sex drive into account is another thing that is Not Done, because in the eyes of Westeros, it marks her out as a wanton and unfit to be a proper wife, let alone a ruling queen. And here, there is more grounds. You simply cannot fuck around and expect to reign smoothly as a queen. It's one of those sacrifices you have to make for power. Yes, it's not fair that husbands are permitted to sleep around and wives are not, but a husband can deceive his wife about the parentage of their children, his bastards cannot be mistaken for her trueborn children.
This is the ONE thing that is absolutely NOT Viserys' fault. First of all, telling the proud and already slighted Corlys "Nope, my daughter won't be marrying your son, because he is not man enough to keep her satisfied in bed, much less give her heirs" is basically the worst thing he can do in that situation. And no matter how diplomatically he phrases it, that's how it will be perceived in Westeros. The Velaryons want the marriage, which means Laenor wants the marriage if he wants to keep riding the gravy train and make his boyfriend happy with nice presents, and Viserys is going to have to give them something huge that they would want more than a grandson on the Iron Throne. Aside from abdicating in favor of Rhaenys, or sending Alicent & the kids to a convent, and marrying Laena himself, there is really no way to placate Corlys other than the marriage to Laenor.
Secondly, Rhaenyra's conduct is inexcusable here. You are not entitled to orgasms or sexual pleasure in your choice partner. You are also not entitled to a crown or a throne, and if you want one, you have to play by society's rules to get it. Forget whether or not she is right to rebel against the sexual mores of her society, while still expecting to reap the rewards reserved for those who follow them, having bastards by Harwin was just STUPID. Blatantly lying about their paternity and demanding violent punishment for anyone who points out the truth is more tyrannical than Viserys' shortchanging his sons.
5. The problem is, generosity to the non-heirs undermines his efforts to make clear who the heir is. He should have given Rhaenyra stuff he did not give Aegon & co. All he gave her was words, not resources or power. That's why I said don't let them have dragons. Dragon are power, and Viserys is giving his sons the same kind of power he is giving his daughter. And that his brother and cousins of Velaryon have, for that matter. To make it clear that Rhaenyra is the heir, he has to give her power he did not give the others, and he has to set her above them in a tangible way, not just with private gestures, while Alicent is allowed to defy her in the Small Council.
@@tentonmotto6779 For the record, I really am enjoying the mutual engagement here. Please don't take my disagreement with your perspective for anger or resentment. We might disagree, but the arguments you make show you are putting thought into this, and have a better understanding of the issues than most commenters. I think we are pretty much in agreement in principle here, we just disagree on the ways to achieve what we agree must be done.
Thanks.
I never would have imagined that an oldman slowly hobbling across a room and struggling to climb some stairs would carry such colossal emotional weight. But that’s top-tier writing for you.
Three scenes from episode 8 that got me all misty-eyed:
- The long walk down the hall, with the crown drop & pick-up my Daemon.
- The speech at the dinner table. ("I wish you see me as I am...the crown cannot stay strong if the house of the dragon remains divided. But set aside your grievances, if not for the sake of the crown, then for the sake of this old man who loves you all so dearly. ")
- The dancing scene, with Viscerys staring wistfully, clearly overjoyed to see his family laughing and dancing.
Brilliant stuff, it was. I can't think of a GOT episode that choked me up quite like this. I don't know if it will be topped.
As a father with a daughter, when he walked in to the throne room to defend his daughter hit me in the feels for sure. A good father will always stand for his baby girl no matter what.
Finally, a highlight of EFAP genuinely praising something! More of these, please! We gotta balance out the negativity!
In all seriousness, highlights of hilarity, stupidity, and misery are great and all but it can get depressingly repetitive and this kind of stuff restores my faith in humanity, that we can tell great stories in great worlds with great characters.
Were you joking on the balance part? Because if not, Hollyweird should be making more good things if they want praise.
@@denkerbosu3551 The second half of my comment clarifies this.
I love ragging on terrible things as much as the next guy but when that’s all you do, it can take a toll on your psyche. This is crazy to think about, but there’s people who genuinely suffer from depression because they’re witnessing the destruction of what used to be their form of escapism. With that in mind, let’s try leading people desperate for a quick break toward what little escapism still remains instead of constantly forcing them to wage wars against the pricks defiling it. The latter only leads to even more suffering.
I've been thinking the same thing and intend to get more clips talking about things that're more positive. Arcane, Dead Space Remake, Andor, etc. I don't want this channel to just become all the moments everyone got angry and talked about how everything sucks, but also to celebrate the good stuff. I'd also like to eventually make meme compilations, like collecting all the Beuwen art segments.
Those'll just take a bit more time. For now, the focus is getting anything I can from the latest EFAPs out in a timely manner and going through the most popular episodes of the show to compile some of the biggest clips first.
@EFAPhighlights
I appreciate this, and agree with your thought process.
It’s true that people focus on negativity more, most media is geared towards it. It’s nice to have wholesome stuff as well to counterbalance, otherwise you just get numb…and what’s more wholesome than a bunch of ppl gushing over a good bit of art?
Thanks wolf. Glad this isn’t all gonna just gonna be “look how dumb Doomer is” or “lolcow does lolcow thing, ridicule this person”
(To be fair, Doomer said dumb stuff and couldn’t admit when he was wrong so it’s not like it’s unfair to point that out)
They mention how it came out the same time as TRoP but to add onto that...
LOTR ended good. We got TRoP.
GoT ended bad. We got HotD.
Strange how that works out.
I suppose that is more easy fixing the mistakes of GoT
Hey, Wolf! Just wanna say thanks for the highlights. There's so many inside jokes and anecdotes I wanted to learn but never knew where to look for them (especially when they occur across multiple EFAPs). This channel remedies that. Appreciate it!
An hour after the season 2 trailers dropped. The timing is peak fire, bro. Either that or Wolf saw the trailers and rushed to get this done, in which case I correct to: Peak Wolf. Bro, he's absolute fire.
ALL HAIL KING VISERYS! 🫡
I don't know of any TV franchise which had such a turnaround as Game of Thrones. Season 8 basically wrote off nearly all wishes and wants for anything related to it. House of the Dragon had absolutely every single reason to fail, to be just a another part of the decline of the franchise.
It is actually unbelievable how this ended up like it did. It's not perfect, but comparatively to what it potentially could've become with the current environment for TV productions, it's a small miracle.
If Viserys' story was not complete, Lewis would not be pleased. He only has the one joy, you see.
The closer we get to Hot D season 2 the more afraid i become. I pray to the heavens that it's good. I can't handle another got season 8, i just can't.
Hollywood loves mistaking being “bigger” and “better” and looking at the trajectory of the story becoming more action-packed and bombastic, I feel dreaded. Sometimes less is more.
I remain hopeful, the absolutely apocalyptic fall from grace that was Season 8 probably has the writers just as afraid as we are.
@@jmaitland5709 i try too but s1 ep9 already proved that even they can make not so good episodes so that hope isn't very high
@jmaitland5709 Thankfully, the events of this story have already been written out by George. With that said, they could still fumble the execution or make more dumb changes, (like Rhaenys murdering thousands of people).
@@jaysimpson3920 this. I swear, I hadn't seen a bigger taint in an otherwise excellent show since Invincible with Amber knowing Mark was a superhero.
It's really funny when you think about it as Viserys' dream about the song of ice and fire is just is just a warning about Game of thrones season 8
Viserys, a good man, a decent king, a horrible patriarch
One of my favorite scenes I think is during the end of the Hunt, where Viserys kills the hart. Here's this purely recreational event put in in honor of him and his son, everyone's out to have a good time (and covertly politic), but when it comes time to actually to the deed, the mood completely changes. Instead of a big hoopla and celebration, the scene is tonally really dour and upsetting, as Viserys clearly takes no pleasure in the needless violence. He'll do what is absolutely necessary, for his family and for the sake of tradition, but no more. Plus it echoes those constant challenges of others questioning whether or not he is fit to be king; he didn't get the white hart they wanted, he missed the first stab, and overall it was just kind of a miserable time.
Paddy Constantine is up there with Doug Jones in his ability to take any role, and convey the emotions and current state of that character perfectly and COMPLETELY wordlessly.
Burst belly means appendicitis before they had any idea why. But yes the implication is that was the excuse for the death and he was actually poisoned
Lucky there’s a family guy (Viserys)
Viserys was a terrible father to the Green Targaryens. He deserves more shit for that, honestly. He shows no sympathy or compassion for Aemond after he got an eye slashed out.
@@SolarDragon007Must be the Megs of the family
Imagine fearing a zombie invasion that gets solved in a day by a little girl with a knife. (This is sarcasm I know the books are different. I’m making fun of the show)
We don't know that the books are different. How and if the Army of the Dead and White Walkers are defeated hasn't been published yet.
At this rate it won't be published ever.
@@VitalVampyr Yeah, when the showrunners had first started writing the show I remember they said George had told them how the book ends. My personal take is that what they did is literally what George was thinking, but they messed up the execution badly.
@@TheManofThings777 Well we can be pretty confident that the White Walkers storyline won't end with Arya killing the Night King because the Night King was created for the show (based very loosely on the books' Night's King who died centuries before the events of the books).
Marrying Alicent Hightower supposedly because she was nice to him during their chats and the influence of Otto, his Hand, was an unforgivable major mistake. Making his daughter heir over Daemon was another mistake that caused great unease and chaos within the realm weakening his rule. Marrying his daughter to Laenor knowing his "condition" was also a "semi-mistake" as Daemon would have been the stronger choice, not executing Cole for "murdering" someone during his daughter's wedding. These mistakes lead to Team Green existing in the first place, leads to Aegon and Armond both having dragons, leads to Armond losing an eye creating resentment and overcompensating as a warrior, leads to Laena dying in childbirth and losing her dragon to the other team, leads to Cole leading Team Green and becoming Hand, and the overall civil war. So, he was by no means a "good king" and I fear this group is promoting his virtues to talk trash the other characters. Now, that all said, the writing of King Viserys and his acting were the best of the year, but he was not a good king by any account.
His actions directly caused the dance of dragons. He was a bad king. Preventing a succession crisis before you die is part of being a good king.
A good man can make for one bad king
He did prevent it, multiple times. What show were you watching?
Didn't watch the show but his insistence in the book that his daughter would follow him even though that ignored a law put in place that said sons inherit did if not cause the war helped it to happen. It sounds like the show played it differently.
He literally tries to stop it the whole show and it falls apart when he dies. His actions were preventing it
@@Ganom-ng1zt the dance of dragons, the civil war that killed every Targaryen dragon and resulted in the regency of Aegon III, will be portrayed in the next season. Viserys actions and inactions (make a Woman the heir despite in opposition to Westorsi culture, failing to groom Rhaenyra for rule, not uniting his heirs with marriage, etc.) directly caused this civil war.
Sadly, I confuse “HOTD with “HTTYD,” which is “How to Train Your Dragon.” Also good media.
How to Train Your Dragon but done in the style of early Game of Thrones. It would be the EFAP of the ages.
@@XenoSpyro Hurrah for that idea!
I love how the fappers are gushing over Viserys walking to the throne
It's entirely styling on S8 finale where we got tons of walking, up the stairs, setting freaking chairs and HotD is like "Yea this is how you actually make it good and have meaning"
"Robert was right. Look at Season 8. They should've killed Danny." - basically Mauler.
Huh. So, pregnant Danny gets murdered, making Drogo furious beyond belief, and without Danny there to calm his most brutal instincts, he brute forces the Dothraki across the narrow sea and absolutely decimate the realm, splitting it in half, if not more segments. Meanwhile there are no longer 3 dragons available, so the Night King marches south basically unimpeded, easily wiping out the North, and then gathering up a few ten thousand dead bodies for his army, and more and more as he marches south, with no one able to even come close to stopping him, his army growing with every step, until the entire realm falls, easily, within a year.
... Robert was absolutely not right. Love him that I do.
A great performance from Paddy.
For anyone that doesn’t follow Paddy on instagram, he played his performance as a love story. Everything he just lets happen in the show is just him punishing himself for killing his wife.
That... does make sense in a way? Though I don't think the script really obviously points to that, but I can sort of see it. He starts by blaming himself for the death of his wife, he probably believes is given another chance at love with his second wife, and deceives himself thinking all is fine? The actor put on a phenomenal performance, true
Hey Wolf! Dare I ask what you have been reading recently? Myself, I have been steadily going through what you and Shad had recommended, I'm on volume nine of Wheel of Time right now, will be going to A Song of Ice and Fire next. I still need to finish Dark Tower, The Expanse and Stormlight Archives, though I enjoyed what I read of those as well. I finally read "all" of The Lord of the Rings, right at the start of the year, I skimmed through the Tom Bombadil part, knowing how... odd... it was. I plan to get English copies of those and The Hobbit (I own translations of them) for my birthday this year (around the same time as Bilbo's and Frodo's as it happens, will definitely read The Hobbit on Sep 22nd).
Well, good health to you, sir, for all it's worth!
Where are you up to with the Expanse?
@@th3lonef0x4 I have translations of these, as well, and Abaddon's Gate was the last one released when I was reading them
Well, finish The Expanse because its ending is spectacular (and pick up the novella collection, one of the stories takes place after the final book).
Otherwise, I'm currently on the fifth Red Rising book, "Dark Age." The series has quickly become one of my favorite sci-fi stories, the first three books going on a similar arc as the original Star Wars films, though with an emphasis on politics and class divide, and the latter books being what I wish the sequel trilogy would have been. Very very good stuff, and the audiobooks are fantastic.
@@EFAPHighlightsgood to hear that the series ended and that the ending was great
I was hesitant for years since i don't want to start another unifinished series but now I'm definetly picking it up
@@EFAPHighlights Good to hear your enjoying red rising, I remember it was one of the books you showed off on Twitter before leaving.
If I may be so bold, are you still working on your fantasy book? That preview you released a few years ago now was very promising and I've read Iridescent twice now I think.
It's was clear that writing is something you are passionate about, your videos about creative writing were my favourite videos of yours.
Why people like horror, what makes good horror, how good writers can turn bad ideas into great stories. They are genuinely fascinating videos. Those horror ones got me into reading Mountains of madness.
It was you who actually got me into writing, which came at a point where I was completely directionless.
I'm still currently working on my own book, nearing the end of the planning phase and getting close to starting writing. (I hope.)
Glad that your doing better now and if I could make a book suggestion, I would suggest some of the recent Alien novels by Titan books.
The cold forge, it's sequel 'Into Charybdis, along with Phalanx and Aliens: Bishop are some of the best novels I've read in the Alien franchise period.
There was a time where those Titan Alien novels were keeping the franchise on life support.
Out of all of them, Into Charybdis was my personal favourite. It was a rollercoaster of emotions and I found it as good as the best of the Expanse. (This being Babylon's Ashes, however I am a massive Alien nut so I have a strong bias.)
However if you do read I.C, best to read Cold forge first.
So I take it you've watched and enjoyed HOTD Wolf? Have you read Fire and Blood, and are you excited for Season 2?
I was surprised by how much I loved it, especially since MauLer and I spent months shitting on it before it came out, but it totally won us over. Definitely looking forward to Season 2.
I made it about halfway through Fire and Blood before bailing, I thought it was really boringly told.
@@EFAPHighlights Listen to the audiobook, Simon Vance is an awesome narrator it's 26 hours and 24 minutes long, so compared to your EFAP episodes it's a piece of cake. If you want to avoid spoilers read only until the heirs of the dragon a question of succession.
Personally, I'm hoping that they adapt the War of the Ninepenny Kings. It's an almost direct prequel to Robert's rebellion which features Ned and Robert's dads, as well as Jon Arryn, and a young Barristan Selmy fighting a two-headed Pirate King.
I thought burst belly ment like, appendicitis
I hope we get more glimbo on efap for next season. Also Wolf do you know if the boys are gonna efap tv season 2?
Viserys was a good king that did a good job. Until he failed laughably at the final stretch. Part of the job of a monarch is ensuring stability of the realm, especially with regards to the transition of power.
Wow one leper king after another
Did...did Mauler says something was "fire"? And then had the temerity to make fun of someone else using it?
Viserys is by far the best character in the show and one of the few I have no issues with
The difference between robert and viserys was that Robert’s vices and selfishness put the kingdom in a horrible situation. Think of Robert like Henry the 8th, but swap out the wars with whores, both kings bankrupted the kingdom with their selfish day to day spending. Viserys was not a great king, but he certainly wasn’t bad by any standards, fantasy or by our own historical standards.
i wonder the ending are they are showing us how dragons are gone? what happens with alys rivers? in the books, she vanishes. that it. we never hear about her again.
Rob was an awful king, he ignored his responsibilities and bankrupted his kingdom. Its his responsibility to rule the kingdom not the council they're there to advise him, not make decisions.
Viserys was a very moist king.
Ive not even tried to touch HOD show. Im just over got sofai world at this point
It's worth watching. Also, unlike Game of Thrones, this story has already been fully written by George and has an actual ending.
Sofai?? SOFAI??????????
ASOIAF
@@thesaintzor625 yeah, I was gonna write SOFI. then i thought does this even makes sense 😂.
I still got it wrong. Shows how much I care. 😀
PS i am a fire over ice guy so the mistake. I like ice if fire doesn't exist
I haven't watch much of GOT, is House of the Dragon watchable without needing context from GOT?
Completely. It takes place 200 years before game of thrones and it’s very easy to follow with the amount of characters + conflict. The “dance of dragons” war that will take place is even referred to in game of thrones iirc, it really is a true prequel in every sense of the word.
@@tasonjodd ooo okay, thank you
He was a TERRIBLE KING, and a pathetic weakling...... he caused the downfall of his house and the deaths of MOST of his loved ones, and almost the end of the world as the Targaryen kings knew about the prophecy of the long winter, it was HIS DUTY to produce a male heir to continue the bloodline, it was HIS DUTY to ensure dragons continued to live to ensure Targaryen control, it was HIS DUTY to enforce unity through fear if necessary, he traded it all for love, and almost caused the end of the world, a leader should never put love over duty, a leader should always sacrifice his own satisfaction, HIS OWN FEELINGS for the sake of those who depend on him.
How much assurance do you have in serving a leader who is willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to achieve their own ends?
@The2012Aceman "Sacrifice"
"His own ends"
These by default cannot go together. It's one or the other. Would he be selfish? Or is he sacrificing for his duty?
@@franzosisch5965 "Sacrificing anything and anyone" is not usually a "good" trait. I don't believe we've ever been writing about noble humans in history, people we should revere, and had it said of them "they were totally willing to sacrifice anyone to get what they wanted."