*Please read before commenting* I've been getting a lot of great and insightful comments, so to everyone being civil, props to you. That said, I made a follow-up video addressing a few of the criticisms because this video really needed more time in the oven: ruclips.net/video/lVhHddtPY_A/видео.html Now I'll address a few smaller things I've been seeing: "You were way too aggressive towards Kuro" You're right. Even though I said multiple times that I respect Kuro and have no beef with him, my tone was actively saying the opposite. I won't excuse it. I will take the L. "Isn't Goku vs Superman more hated?" You could argue that its impact is bigger since it literally spawned the existence of Death Battle debunk videos, and they even have more dislikes (even if it's by virtue of having way more views), but in terms of like-dislike ratios, Ben vs GL's is technically worse, currently having a 56% ratio as opposed to the other episodes having at least 90k more likes when compared to their dislikes. Ultimately, it's up to you, but I can definitely see that. I'll accept buying into clickbait, though, as I did want that snazzy title. "Hal going back in time to kill Ben is such a low blow, especially since it was Kid Ben when it should've been Teen Ben" Again, I'm right there with you. However, the reason why I didn't address it is that they didn't want to have a third "explosion death" in a row and wanted to go with something more creative for once, so I chose to base my criticisms around that and what it should've looked like. Then again, an explosion death probably should've been used regardless, but whatever. As for Teen Ben, refer to what I said about the available sprites. Now for a couple of other points: 1. I agree that the ending with Hal going back in time would not actually work. The only reason I didn't mention it in the video is because I forgot to bring it up. My b. I've also gotten comments from people saying that it's a low blow. That's also something I can agree with. 2. Just in case I need to mention this, too, I have nothing against Death Battle debunks. When I say "it's unfair to criticize the episode for outside factors", that's only in the context of reviewing the full episode. Debunks are meant to tackle the research and arguments that Death Battle is using and doesn't take any other aspect of the episode into account (unless if they mention how the animation contradicts a point they made in the conclusion), so on that front, it's fair to use outside factors. I feel like I should've made a distinction between reviewing an episode and debunking it, and I didn't think about it until the last minute, but I had no time to work it in the video somewhere. Anyways, links that I mentioned earlier. Check these out to get a better understanding of the matchup: Ben vs Hal G1 prediction blog: g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2019/05/death-battle-predictions-ben-10-vs.html Ben vs Hal analysis by Spider Pidge: www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057 Kuro's Alien X video: ruclips.net/video/_88RUVr9WaM/видео.html Other links: Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Q&A: ruclips.net/video/SQujpsgd428/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D How Ben Wins Without Alien X by Kuro: ruclips.net/video/i3meGRifraM/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Kuro's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern analysis: ruclips.net/video/f-jkS1zu5Cg/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Ben vs Hal Q&A Response by Kuro: ruclips.net/video/nCN6fZZQ-cc/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D Nemesis Bloodryche's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Review: ruclips.net/video/1ppVbqezvSY/видео.html
I read all of the information on 28:44 and it all seems agreeable since I have seen all of the seasons debunked videos. (also to forgot to sub after seeing all of the death battle debunked's my bad. putting this in my comment to tell you that I have subbed to you.)
if i may? the time travel thing mostly likely WOULD work based on in series ben 10 rules. two of his villains have used it against him (one in the show, and one in the comics) and even with clockwork's powers, ben couldn't tell the difference between someone being vaporised and someone being sent back in time. in a less lethal capacity, ben's altered his own present at least twice onscreen.
I have a question about the bit where you showed the reddit post about Morganna. Did you actually pay to have that video advertised, or did someone edit that image to slander you?
Not only did Ben lose, he died in the exact 1 way that would be IMPOSSIBLE to use against him. Alien X can follow Time Waves from Time travel, similar to how Flash can follow Time Travelers, and Hal using a giant pair of scissors was something Vilgax tried EXACTLY and the Omnitrix prevents SPECIFICALLY.
@@Vindication1134The series doesn't give a definitive answer on what doesn't constitute a threat to Ben, besides obviously things that have zero chance of killing him. However, the Omnitrix often acts in a way that seems like it has intent, and understands the current intent of outside forces (in writing terms it's a limited but powerful form of plot armor); which is why Vilgax was using a specific machine to remove the watch without actually providing a deadly threat to Ben the moment it would have been removed, and only planned on harming Ben after. Therefore Green lantern could have been amputated, but he also would need to intend to stop the bleeding. So I do think there's ways green lantern could have won and honestly I can't even be bothered to be mad at who wins in the end. What did bother me was that it was obviously clear that both parties definitely did not fight to the full extent of their abilities, and the fight ended with a cheap shot that was easily preventable by Ben. Be it that the either Alien X followed Hal, or that the Omnitrix; sensing Ben's distress at something about to cut off his arm, assumes deadly force is about to be inflicted and turns Ben into an Alien that can either be alright without an arm; like Swampfire, or is too durable to cut. I can accept that they were limited by time and resources when it came to actually showing what a full on fight between the two would look like, but don't make the ending something that can be disproved by two minutes of research.
Simply reading Alien X's wiki powers explain why everyone hated the ending. "Alien X can survive a timeline destruction" meaning even if he killed young Ben. The future Ben as Alien X would still exist. Also Alien X can technically time travel himself, it's basically god mode in sandbox on drugs, hard drugs. Surviving the destruction of a universe and creating one itself. So Lantern time traveling could also be applied to Alien X following him or simple reversing back to before he told him etc. Time travel is a bag of worms you shouldn't use when it applies to both parties. Cause it's a dumb and very contrived.
@@Vindication1134That would be true, except for the fact that this literally happened to Ben in the show. Instead of his hand simply being chopped off, Ben got teleported to what I believe is the null void while his hand was walking around on Earth.
Eh a lot of casual vs-debater and many reaction channels ONLY care about the verdict and complain afterwards if their character lost. Also in that rant they love bringing up the prejudices: "Death Battle hates anime", "DB is biased against dbz" and so on.
For the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix they made him look weak. Alien X is supposed to have supreme power over the entire universe, And they make him have the Shadow clone jutsu and punching. He could have beaten that fight in a second.
the only reason alien X was boxing in the series is it is bec he was fighting another clestial sapien, him doing it in the death battle is clearly a point they made that green lantern is atleast has the stats to nulify every haxx alien x got, no ?@@ImADeity
Ok, go back and watch Ben 10 Omniverse he literally has as a flying brick because Ben is pretty dumb. The coolest thing he's done is: Universal Creation Black Hole Some Lame Telekinesis Minor Time Manipulation
@@l0sts0ul89 ben dumb? wow you say go back to the series but don't even know the first about ben. literally one of the most battle hardened characters. literally all good hax and more what you mean?
@@faith4657 With his godly power, instead of ya know fixing the Plumbers Kids and removing their powers or something what does he do? Make them fight like Legos, all he did was punch while in Alien X. Also "one of the most battle hardened characters" is giving Ben too much credit, he's not.
I genuinely think the only reason this episode is hated so much, is just because of the scissors, the scissors completely contradict what they said in the analysis about the Omnitrix catching the Big Bang, that literally feels like it, it’s just the scissors being so damn slow
@@Yes_nuggetUsing 10yo Ben was a stupid idea even if it was just for looks and DB's research and scaling of a character is almost always pathetically wrong but the winner was right. Ben 10 isn't even scratching Hal. One is arguably high outerversal if not higher, the other is hyberversal if you're being extremely generous.
@@liamdealmeida9914 I disagree, ben should have won. I can think of two aliens that can beat Hal, alien x (obviously) and clock work. Alien x can do literally anything, Hal isn't winning against that. And clockwork could could simply stop time and then fire a time beam that will age his body rapidly, killing him instantly.
@@Yes_nugget While both are powerful, they just can't compete with someone on Hal Jordan's level. Most of Alien X's abilities won't work on Hal, GL has been shown to resist similar abilities from much more powerful characters, whether it's Pre/Post-Crisis, New52 or Rebirth Hal. Alien X being able to "do literally anything", means what? He has matter and time manipulation, erasure, mind control and transmutation, maybe reality warping (GL has most of these too)? These abilities are fairly common and usually (except for time manip), scale to the user, meaning they more often than not, won't work on someone massively more powerful eg. Giorno (JoJo's) or Gilgamesh (Fate) would have better luck (aka causality manipulation) than Lucky Girl (Gwen) or King (OPM), to the point where they can dictate what happens opposed to it just being luck to them. A better example is how mind control from someone like Puppet Master didn't work on Hulk but it worked much better from Xemnu or Thanos. Stopping time means absolutely nothing because GL has immeasurable speed, so he can travel through time with raw speed alone, I'm pretty sure he even has irrelevant speed though, but you only need inaccessible speed to move during stopped time. I don't recall Hal having age manipulation resistance, but he can also age things, someone aged a tree to a stump with a replica of his ring and he once aged himself into being an old man and casually managed to de-age himself back to normal. I'd imagine he does have resistance to it, seeing that other lanterns haven't used this ability on each other, he just allowed it to happen to himself. Even if he didn't, he is just infinitely more powerful and faster so it doesn't matter. Ben is a statue in comparison, so Hal speed blitzes and one-shots/erases him before he can even use the move. If it does hit him, he just reverses the effects. I'm not sure if you're familiar with all this power scaling jargon, which is understandable, you're not expected to as long as you're respectful. If you need me to elaborate on stuff, I'll do my best to explain. I can understand why people would believe Ben wins but he just hasn't done much that Hal hasn't dealt with or anything that can put him anywhere near most JL members in power. To put the power gap into perspective, Alien X is probably at low complex multiversal, so 4D to 6D, each dimension is more than infinitely above the previous one. Hyperversal starts at 12D and can go on to infinite dimensional, so ♾D. You can then go above this by being outerversal, above the concept of dimensions as a whole and there are still levels to this. While Hal isn't an outerversal being in nature, he has outerversal attack potency (power) and durability meaning he can destroy outerversal structures. If you want any proof of Hal being at this level I'll find some examples and use some chain-scaling.
My issue isnt necesserely that Ben lost. Its HOW he lost. Ben deserves a proper defeat, not some bullcrap that would never have worked. Give us a proper Alien X VS Hell Battle where at the end Hell manages too destroy the Omnitrix, not simply cut it off Bens arm wich WOULDNT WORK.
Yeah it was such a weak conclusion, you end the whole figth by basically preventing the fight from happening in the first place and attacking from behind at a vulnerable moment, doesn't it take away the point of doing a battle to see who is stronger in the first place? I mean, in that case what stops Ben from doing the same? Just time travel back in time to a point where Hal's ring is with 0 charge or he isn't wearing it and kill him when he dosen't see him comming, where's the fun in that?
@@l0sts0ul89 But that wasnt with some regular scissors but with a hyper advanced weapon that send Ben too another dimension but kept his hand in the regular dimension, but they where still connectet. When the Omnitrix transformd, Ben transformed as well, when the hand moved and jumped arund, Ben was pulled along. That was a entirley diffrent scenario.
I think the reasons Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is so hated is because 1. Green Lantern is not known to time travel to the mainstream so watching him time travel will make tons of people confused 2. Traveling back in time to kill your opponent at an vulnerable state is the most Disrespectful and cheap way to kill someone so it would make a lot of people Ben 10 fans upset
Ben could also travel in time and his watch does not let its wearer die, the moment his arm is cut off automatically it should transform him into an alien that can regenerate it
One thing I'd like to add is how stupid the time travel part of the animation was. "I control time" "Time, huh?" *Uses time to kill him* Imagine that with any other character. Aquaman: "I command the oceans" "Oceans, huh?* *Throws water balloon that kills Aquaman* OR Batman: "I fight for my parents" "Parents, huh? Martha." *Batman falls over crying* Naturally that's going to piss some people off.
There are just so many plot holes with this. First of all, the Omnitrix will instantly activate its failsafes against it’s removal and death of it’s owner, so what makes Death Battle think Hal could bypass this? Also, Present Ben as Alien X would chase after Hal after he time traveled to the past via Sotobro Effect and stop him from killing Past Ben (which is impossible because of anti-death failsafes.) Even if somehow Hal did kill Past Ben, it’s still pointless as Present Ben would still be alive and kicking as Alien X because Celestialsapiens aren’t affected by time and space at all. And according to Paradox in Omniverse, every time you travel to the past you only create a branch of new timelines, therefore leaving the original timelines unchanged. You see there are just so many plot holes and it would so much more for Ben to simply negate Hal’s ring, blink him out instantly and be done with it.
As someone who had been watching kuro since his first video, based on some stuff he has said in the past, I believe that the reason he said he'd rather than death battle "never touched the character" is less so because of any of his feelings and more because it forced him to make those 3 videos. In a lot of videos he has said that he actually doesn't really know or care that much about powerscaling and mainly just wanted to give ben 10 some respect that he felt he lacked (which is something I appreciated back when I discovered his channel too because I also felt like I couldn't comfortably talk about this show I've loved for half my childhood up until kuro's efforts). The bad part of kuro becoming the accidental ambassador of the ben 10 community is that he ended up feeling forced to address and respond to any issue the fandom had even if it was something he didn't necessarily wanted to do, the death battle videos being one of those, I believe he initially didn't even want to make any videos on it or more than 1 video on it so by the end of the third he felt that the harm the episode caused to him by indirectly making him make videos he didn't really want to outweighed the parts he liked and just wished it hadn't happened so that he wouldn't have made those videos.
Tbf, he never *had* to make those videos. At the end of the day he was the one who wrote the script, recorded the dialogue, edited the video, and then uploaded it. It definitely does suck to hear, but he could've very well just ignored it. You can't really blame death battle for that
@@afro025 that is why even that certain event was still not over, he stopped responding. Ofcourse it's partly his fault upon shouldering the voices of the community.
@@afro025 yeah I definitely wasn't implying it was all the fault of either party. I just wanted to shed some light on why he said that he wished they never touched the character. Shortly after those videos he actually had announced that he was going to stop making videos and give control of the channel to his 2 occasional co-hosts, even did a big "history of ben 10 animated" event that was supposed to be his "epic finale" but even then he returned to making videos some time later and has seemed to be happier ever since. I believe that in that period of time where he wasn't making videos he probably realized that being the go-to content creator for ben 10 didn't make him automatically accountable for any random community drama he may or may not want to invest time into.
@@vorrdegard2176and also Alien X disintegrating Hal like thanos doesn’t make sense. As Kevin said “They(celestialsapiens) could just blink and we’d be gone”
Those Alien X clones aren't like Shadow Clones, they're all just as capable of anything as the original. Ben could simply overwhelm Hal with infinite clones until the ring's charge is gone and finish him off.
I'm not mad about that Ben lost. I just didn't like how they portrayed him. He had an older voice with aliens from the newer omnitrix. At that point just use teenage Ben lol
I heard that the reason why they used young Ben 10 was because he was more popular than the older version but I might be wrong as this was 4 years ago when I heard this
@@roobyrne3075Kid Ben was mainly used because the team didn’t have access to Teen Ben sprites and ultimately them using Kid never had an effect on the outcome
I liked the part where Hal said “Time huh? Thanks for the tip” and then proceeded to go to a restraint and tip all the waiters. Truly one of the death battles of all time
And that's how Costal City was saved.....which turned out to be the catalyst for the Emerald Paradox(okay not really)...but that would be so hilarious.
The entire Ben 10 vs GL debacle was an undeniable mess. The episode itself is average at best with some considerable flaws that caused the backlash that it did. For starters, the overall analysis for both characters was fine. It did a pretty decent job at summarizing the characters, what they were about, and a basic rundown of their abilities. The animation though is where the issues start rearing their ugly head. With the animation itself, I think it’s cohesive enough & the animators did a great job. The sound design was also well done. The directive choices of the fight is what I take issue with. First off, I understand why they chose to represent Ben with his kid model. It’s the most iconic & recognizable look he has. Considering his opponent though, it might’ve been better to use Teenage Ben; as you avoid the controversy of a full-grown adult offing a kid if he won. The next issue is the choreography of the overall fight. The fight up to Alien X is good. You get to see a variety of powers from both sides, fun interactions, and some quirks from both combatants. When Alien X arrives however; we start getting interpretations of both characters that are very inaccurate to their portrayals & the fight starts becoming unbelievable. The fight ends with GL using an ability he isn’t known for having before he finishes off a kid in a way that makes 0 sense & is very disrespectful to his opponent, which is also completely out of character for Hal; Killing restrictions removed from their personality or not. The final 2 nails in the coffin comes from the closing analysis. For starters, the closing remarks were super vague about how GL managed to secure a win, and it left me as well as the audience unsatisfied with the conclusion. What’s worse, the actual good arguments for why GL could feasibly win was left to be answered in a Q&A segment, because Deathbattle couldn’t be bothered to do a lengthy explanation for why they chose a winner overall. Leaving your strongest arguments out of an episode is just a bad judgment call. All that said, I’m actually glad this episode got as much flack as it did. It was a needed wakeup call for the team. Since this episode, I feel the team takes the debate aspect as well as showing off characters in a more accurate light (in most cases). They’ve certainly gotten better, and in matchups that are far messier to decide a winner, (Take DIO vs Alucard for instance), they take their time and address every possibility for why they went with their winner & made sure all the possible bases are covered. I honestly believe Deathbattle would not be as polished as it is today if episodes like Ben vs GL didn’t kick them in the pants & the team didn’t take valid criticism to heart. If you read through this long winded post, I honestly thank and applaud you for doing so.
Nah, the "wakeup call" the Ben 10 fanbase wanted was for them to believe that "Lel aLiEn X sOlos" and "bUt mUh fAiLsAfE". The Ben 10 fanbase was stuck in their delusion of Alien X being some omnipotent god who solos fiction, and they were upset that Death Battle didn't think the same. I've legit seen people think Alien X is on par with TOAA and The Presence.
Them having a wake up call is why I think Wally vs Archie did better than Ben vs Hal, both episodes involved the DC character beating a character mostly known for being unbeatable to a fan base that can’t/won’t accept otherwise, but Wally vs Archie didn’t end up as controversial because, like you said, they addressed every reason why Wally wins in great detail, so your assessment is extremely accurate
@@mrmisterman2874you sure? Because I've seen a lot of people that kept on saying Archie Sonic should have won and that Archie Sonic beats Wally in basically every aspect.
My take: 1.Presentation: Even though Death Battle goes with the peak version of a character or sometimes a composite version for some reason they decided to use young Ben as their representative instead of Omniverse Ben. This also follows into the aliens they use since a majority of them use Classic Ben designs instead of a custom or Omniverse which makes it very confusing for those who arent aware than Ben is 17 years old canonically at the end of the origonal series. 2. The line up of aliens: Way Big and Alien X made sense. Four Arms as a starter to grasp the difference in strength was fine and so was Heatblast. But we didnt get guys like Atomix, Chromastone, Upchuck or Feedback, aliens that they listed off as some of his best picks that didnt even show up to make things interesting. The fight only really got good once he went Way Big. 3. Logic: Even if you were to say Ben was to lose to Hal the fact they completely ignored the failsafe that stops the wearer from dying was complete crap. A better option would be to make the omnitrix go into self-destruct mode then stop Ben from turning it off so that he blows himself up. And this is ignoring the worse moment of the fight where Hal just time travels and Alien X just lets it happen without a fight he doesnt follow him and fight in the time stream or just pulls a Bite za dusto. It was just stupid for the sake of an ending.
The big issue is the scissor thing, the failsafe protected Ben from the Big Bang and if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix from AF he had his hand severed by a portal but omnitrix reanimated his hand and stayed linked to the severed wrist keeping him from bleeding out so really the method of Ben losing was just really stupid, there are plenty of ways Hal could have won the fight but cutting his hand off was stupid
the hand was severed by that axe...the energy field the axe produced was what stopped ben from bleeding...the omnitrix had his hand move on its own sure but the axe teleported ben away from his hand
@@metalmario1231 yes and as I said only if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix, however they show the prototype which multiple times prevents it’s own removal & even flips out when Vilgax tries to cut his arm off & he begins randomly transforming for the remainder of the encounter & the final omnitrix failsafes to protect him while he’s human to enable him to survive a universe creating/destroying bomb at point blank range, so unless they’re only using one omnitrixes logic that isn’t even shown rather than the one shown or the most current then it’s kinda cherry picking ain’t it?
@@Dreadwing1000 That is incorrect. Grandpa Max crashed through Vilgax's ship and into Vilgax before the blade ever made contact with Ben. The resulting electrical damage began spreading through the ship, which spread into the Omnitrix and caused it to begin rapidly changing Ben. It was not the Omnitrix reacting to the blade. And yes, the complete Omnitrix saved Ben from outright dying. After it let him die to multiversal destruction, get kidnapped and be hurt on numerous occasions. That is not a defense mechanism that would react to limb removal.
Being reminded of this death battle only further reinforces my belief that its almost always going to be obvious who the winner is based almost entirely on how old the character is and how much source material they can call upon. like my belief is that Ben lost because they almost never went into higher threat levels that require heavier hitters like Way Big or Alien X, and kept the scope of the show mostly on Earth when the most interesting things happened off in space, Hell apparently Alien X isn't even the strongest in the Omnitrix base on Dareks comment, but it doesn't matter since we never got to hear or see anything about it.
that statement was debunked Alien x is the strongest alien celestial sapiens are literally the creators of everything and are stated to be the literal staff of ben 10
With the likes of DC comics being like 80 years old that sure as hell is true with the fact that every god damn dc comic is canon to one another or someshit.
I think the main problem is that nothing said in the initial video, and even afterwards, actually give Hal the win. There is no reason to believe the fail safe has a cooldown, Vilgax had the Omnitrix hand in a specialized machine when he attempted to cut it off (and it’s never shown to actually work), and making any judgments on the limitations of Alien X is foolish when aside from a few crew statements and Agregore’s plan to absorb a baby Celestialsapien we aren’t given any limits.
Also going on the omnitrix fail safe, it’s faster than the Big Bang, plus if Hal’s constructs are classified as energy then Feedback alone wins. (I don’t know a lot about the lanterns so correct me if I’m wrong) also even if Hal destroyed diamond head he’ll regenerate also the best transformation would have been goop
@@gundamandyugioh4184 they aren't actually classified as energy. at least not one that obeys any given laws of physics. he can freely transform it into any kind of energy he wants, including magic or sonic, or even something like antimatter. rookie green lanterns are vulnerbale to things like black holes bending light, but experienced lanterns are not. he also has a number of tricks to deal with energy absorbers and can just... win tug of war matches with them. the first time he ever absorbed the central battery he did so to prevent another being from doing it, and not only absorbed it faster but took the power away from him. it's technically the raw fuel of all reality, including dimensions like the new gods realsm and afterlife. and absorbing hal's specific energy kind of... turns you into an extension of hal, anyway. it's described as"omnijectively real" and the thing which powers the source wall
an omnitrix technician in every series claims you can cut it off, and the one time it seems to prevent his hand being cut off, the episode actually points out the weapon malfuntioned, it wasn't the omnitrix's doing. plus, you can't assume no limits on alien x since he's shown to fall short several times in the series. to do otherwise is to just give him unlimited benefit of the doubt while ignoring hal's own experience killing immortals and omnipotent beings.
@@danielwilson8604 where in the series is that stated? Cause again it’s fail safe would prevent that. Like an Omnitrix technician? First I’m hearing of it, unless it’s from the reboot which is not canon to the Prime timeline so where is that stated. I genuinely would like to know You have a point with Alien X though
If they had come up with a good enough reason for Ben to lose, I wouldn't have been mad about it. But no, that was not the case they just doubled down on the lack of proper research on Ben and why he should lose
the problem is that they were RIGHT about a number of the points people call poor research, or didn't dispute them enough. among other things, alien x has actually shown onscreen he cannot sense time travellers coming and doesn't exist without ben.
@@sev1120 this is never stated, nor shown. the sotobro effect is specifically something chronosapiens and their technology leave behind when they time travel, no other time traveller leaves such a trail. eon and even vilgax were able to travel without paradox tracking them, and paradox himself even snuck up on alien x themself, grabbed ben, and left, forcibly detransforming them. neither serena, ben nor bellicus could sense him coming or stop him leaving. if there is a specific statement otherwise please let me know.
@danielwilson8604 Regardless of Alien X not showing it, it doesn't mean he can't. Alien X's species exist outside all of existence and cannot be harmed by anything. They failed to fully understand Alien X and the idea that there isn't anything he can't do
@@SJMS.x0930 Claiming that someone can do "anything" is vague, unquantifiable, and ultimately, meaningless. There are plenty of characters in fiction said to be omnipotent or god or whatever. Those are just titles. What really matters is the feats they've actually shown. Speculation and assumptions are worthless. You can't just make up powers or stats for a character. That's not how debates work. It doesn't matter that Alien X is said to be able to "do anything". Yeah, so are about a dozen comic book characters, and they are still beaten by higher beings. That phrase doesn't tell me anything. The best he has ever shown is creating a universe. That simply isn't enough to beat even mid tier DC heralds. And you literally just pulled the ultimate no limits fallacy by claiming Alien X can't be harmed by anything, Just because nothing in Ben 10 is powerful enough to harm in (which is questionable itself but that's not important right now) that doesn't mean other characters who have greater feats than him can't. It doesn't matter that he's the god tier in a verse filled with mere universal reality warpers. His feats are so pathetic compared to what Hal has pulled off. This is the same argument Saitama fans use. Battles are about feats, not how cool someone looks whenever they show up. By your logic I could also say Zeno from DBS is unbeatable because nothing in his verse is powerful enough to harm him. That's not how it works.
My favorite part of Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is that part in Goomba vs Koopa DBX where Koopa flies through the timestream leaving behind the Goomba shoe for Hal to "get an idea"
I never noticed this, but my friend pointed it out to me and I can’t unsee it. The person who wins the battle, is always whoever has the largest number of kilotons of TNT as there power feat.
It really depends on the episode, but yeah, outstating your opponent is a pretty reliable way of killing them, especially if the combatants don't have much hax at their disposal.
Small correction Alien x clones are as strong as the original The failsafe shockwave doesn't have a cool down (idk where did they get that from) The failsafe was fast enough to catch the BigBang(of a universe that is infinite in size) exploding in bens face I don't know how fast Hal is but is he really that fast ? would like if u tell me and ty Overall i think hal should have won bec he has 1000 of comics so he obviously has More time to develop and shine just not like that i mean come on...
an author has claimed that ben's universe is infinite in size, but that's a shakey claim since we've seen the edge of it, and an infinite universe wouldn't have a big bang. however, if we assume that it is true, we'd have to use the same claims about dc's universe. since hal can not only scan the entire universe instantly and even fly from the center past the edge in the space of a single sentence, that'd still make him faster thanks to the smaller timeframe., especially since the universe being much older would mean it had expanded more.
@@danielwilson8604 ty maybe if they showed us in the animation that Hal moves so fast that time is slowed to Ben or if Hal said I have to be quick or something it would have been clearer since the start Bec the way they make it look like they just forgot about . My only problem with it know is what didn't Alien x follow back Hal? Alien x has two Avatars beligus and seriena who are omniscience they could have told Ben if he didn't realize or the fact that Hal literally says "time huh that's for the tip so Alien x should know his plan
@@tpabdo7857 that would indeed have been a better solution. i'm planning my own animation and hoping to do the fight justice because it's a genuinely interesting matchup to me.
@@tpabdo7857 sorry, didn't catch the edits. but serena and bellicus have something LIKE omniscience, but we've seen time travellers sneak up on them and give them the slip before, when paradox broke into their mind-void grabbed ben and left, destransforming them. they didn't see him coming, but they were focused on him when he left. and ben's future self has confirmed that if his past changes, his future ceases to be. between that, hal being MUCH faster and the fact that they will cease to exist without ben and the omnitrix, they were in a bad position. does that make sense?
@@danielwilson8604 yes but paradox isn't ur average time traveller and still Hal said "time huh thanks for the tip" and celestial sapiens live outside of the multiverses and outside of time it is also supported by the fact that there is one Alien x that all Bens in the multiversus have access too. So again killing him in the past won't do anything ,even by the logic of both shows I believe but that might be a bit to much to ask in my eyes if they made Alien x follow him back then time traveller Hall kills Ben since he knows how fast the failsafe, while the the other Hal holds off Alien x then they both team up and kill him with an explostion ,Thank you for listening to me and answering me logical answers so far and not just saying Hal when Bec he just does
As a MASSIVE Ben 10 fan, it's not so much that Ben lost as it is how he lost, the expectation for why he lost, and who he lost to. I'm going to start by explaining how he lost. This just applies to the animation. It's very obvious why there was such a backlash. Having Hal travel back to the beginning of the fight was a cheap and anticlimactic way of winning. In addition, it goes against how time travel works in both the DC and Ben 10 universe. So regardless if either character goes back in time to kill there opponents past self this does nothing but creates a new timeline in which there original selfs are unaffected. Now it's time for the dreaded Green Scissors. The fail safe should have activated when Hal goes back in time and cuts Ben's wrist. The energy feedback that protects Ben doesn't have a cooldown, and the Omnitrix will turn Ben into an Alien who will protect/save him."But Hal's constructs move faster than..."Blah blah blah the animation didn't elude to that and that's exactly the problem. The animation has to matter. A good amount of people who watch Death Battle watch for the animation and so it needs to be a more proper representation of both characters and there abilities and it needs to be conveyed as accurately as possible. Now, the explanation for Ben's loss. It was written poorly. I'm not going to go into detail (partly because I'm lazy and I'm writing this on my lunch break and you go into better detail than I could), but here's the bare minimum. All they had to say was Hal was faster and had more experience fighting Omnipotent entities, and they removed all of the fluff about Ben playing catch up and his aliens not being able to accomplish (insert feat here.) I could go on and on about how they didn't calculate or mention any of Ben's more powerful aliens and their feats, or what they got wrong about Alien X, or how they downplayed Ben or how I didn't like Ben's representation in the fight or how the episode at times felt like nostalgia pandering to me during Ben's anyslsis but none of that matters because of my last point. This was a completely unequal match-up, which is why I disliked it so much.This is something that anime fans bring up when a DC/Marvel character beats an anime character on DB, and it's that DC and Marvel characters have an unfair advantage because they have multiple comics, different authors, multiple different timelines and alternative versions, and they've been around for so long. Most non-DC/Marvel characters have a single source of origin and a smaller pool of writers. In the case of Ben 10, the franchise is only 17 years old, but DC and Marvel have characters that have been around for more than 40 years. For myself and many others, rooting for our favorite to win against these characters is pointless because DC/Marvel characters are simply built different. They have a lot of power creep. I wouldn't have minded if Ben had lost against someone on his level, but he didn't. Lanturns are broken. Honestly I hate being reminded of this fight and yeah I have no problem saying this is my least favorite DB and it's not because Ben lost it's because he never stood a chance to begin with so there was no point being excited for this match up in addition to the fight being ( and I hate using this word) mid. The peak was Hal vs Heatblast imo and everything afterwards just being meh. Both characters have creative powers and both characters don't do anything interesting with them in the fight. All around good analysis video. If you have feedback or a different opinion I'd love to talk.
@saucymongoose I agree with your opinion. I saw one ink tank video where Kuro talks about how ben won and how death battle got some stuff wrong about Alien X, and how Ben could use different ways to win against green lantern.
The problems don't come from Hal beats Ben. It's how. Ben's first watch has a cooldown, but his latest doesn't. By the version of Ben they use he has all the powers of a later Ben, no mater the sprite. He can't be killed like that. And thay handled Alien X really poorly, he is a solve a problem fast with powers type of fighter, not a melee one. Also the biggest issue is Ben has a lot of aliens that can absorb Hal's attacks or affect the ring. And they use none. I am with Kuro here. I wish they didn't touch Ben, because they didn't add a lot to the fandom and spred some misconseptions like what can Ben do and that the watch is harming the user by a lot of use
honestly, i'm of the opposite school here? a lot of what people claim in the debunks is flar out wrong or directly contradicted by canon, and it's lead to a lot of people claiming ben has powers he doesn't or tryting to enforce limits on green lantern he doesn't have, like claiming he cannot travel in time post crisis. no version of hal jordan lacks time travel. it's also pushed alien x scaling to frankly absurd extremes.
If three Alien X clones are fighting in melee, the rest will be throwing suns or blasting the enemy with antimatter or doing literally anything other than JUST FLOAT THERE
@@danielwilson8604 I'm not really an expert on Green Lantern, but a lot of things that he did against Ben is literally established in Ben 10 to not be possible. You can’t cut of Ben's hand You can't travel back in time without Ben being able to anything against it (Sotobro effect) Also Ben's human form can't be killed as it has a fail safe that would automatically change him to an alien able to survive said attack Like I don't actually care about the main result, just the way it was reached as its contradictory to Ben 10's lore and rules
@@matheussandbakk9959 the problem is, Ben's human self has died onscreen, and an omnitrix technician has claimed you could cut it off in every series, including g the final. They could have explained it better, but its still supported by canon. It has defences, but they aren't absolute. Also, professor paradox did just that against alien x himself, destransforming him by warping into their void while they couldn't sense him and teleporting away before they could do anything. The sotobro effect is only said to trace chronosapiens, after all. And even as clockwork, ben couldn't tell the difference between eon travelling in time and being vaporised.
@@danielwilson8604 Theres no such thing as the "Omnitrix technician" atleast in the main contintenty the reboot is it's own seperate thing that's like using teen titans go as a reason for why raven or starfire from the comics lose a fight, it's dumb
The most glaring issue is that they obviously didn't do enough research into Ben's feats, abilities, haxs, or any of his other transformations. Ben has aliens like Ghostfreak who can possess other people and since Green lantern has been taken control of before possession would work on him in this scenario. Ben also has aliens such as chromastone, nrg, feedback, ect who can absorb energy and completely nullify the effects of the ring but DB for some mysterious reason completely ignores them in the matchup.
@@justinalicea1590 your main point seems to stem off of Hal's speed yet he has never truly shown any speed feat that puts him quintillion times faster than light. The whole "he can just avoid Ghostfreak" can also be applied to Ghostfreak. And Hal wouldn't be able to "take back" his own energy from the energy absorbers because they take energy from their opponents and use them as weapons against said opponents, unless he uses a shield or something similar I don't see how Jordan would be able to deal with constantly being blasted with his own energy nonstop
@@justinalicea1590 if Green lantern fired his own attacks at the energy absorbers and they fired them back at him that would be more than powerful enough to hurt GL. The Omnitrix has reacted to things outside of time and space anyway so hal would never be able to speed blitz Ben. And even then those factors still don't have any weight when it comes to his physical strength or what he can do with the ring.
@@justinalicea1590 you are assuming that GL would only be using 1% of his power in the battle when in actuality he would need to use much more than that. The Omnitrix would transform Ben into an alien that would withstand GLs speed, this is a basic countermeasure of the Omnitrix that has been around for almost the entirety of the series. Did you even watch the show?
@@justinalicea1590 Alien X was able to recreate the entire universe which means he was able to create the distance of the entire universe in less than a second. In order for this to be possible his power would have to travel the length of the universe in both directions in a near nanosecond which by itself is a massive speed feat that Alien X performed only using a fraction of his particles which by extension means that he wasn't even using his full power to pull off such a feat. With this information in mind Alien X most likely wouldn't even need to use 4% of his power to completely out speed Hal and put the power of his ring to shame. If you disagree with my points that's fine but I don't see any logical way Hal could ever possibly win
I think it was Stan Lee (or some other big name in the comics industry) who when asked who would win a fight between two specific characters said, "Whoever the Author wants to win."
Please please please stop using this stupid stupid quote, THERE IS NO WRITER IN THIS CONTEXT YOU IDIOT. Me Vs You, we debate. Who's the writer? Oh right, there isn't any, this isn't a story, there is no narrative, there's nothing here that needs an author's input on how it would go.
I believe the big reason Ben 10 v Green Lantern was so disliked, even if previous episodes had incorrect conclusions, is that the other episodes all _seemed_ to be good arguments. If the only things you knew were what DB showed, then most of the time one could leave an episode thinking "yeah, that makes sense". The rematch of Mario v Sonic did NOT have this, and even seemed to ignore very good points in the original that had Sonic win, so people didn't like that remake... but hey, they aren't _that_ far apart, so it's not so blatant. That basically had boiled down to "they counter each other in everything but speed, and we all know Sonic's faster", a take that was not sufficiently overturned but still means they're close. Here though? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in the episode apart from the official conclusion, was screaming that Ben is the winner. They did a Q+A later? Irrelevant. That's not the episode, and most people aren't even going to pay attention to it. As for points you brought up about Ink's analysis, while the reasoning behind Hal outspeeding the failsafe seems sound, it does nothing without the opportunity, and per DB rules, he can't know enough to have that opportunity beforehand. They got around that by time travel, but the arguments for the Sotobro Effect make it pretty clear that, no, that's not an option. I know you claimed that said effect might have been exaggerated, but that was one claim, not directed at Ink's coverage of it specifically, and gave no counter-explanation... so I have to assume Ink was right on that point.
Yeah, even if an episode has a wrong result if DB gives a sound reasoning for it then there won't be a problem. The phoenix vs raven fight despite being wrong DB gave a reasonable explaining on the analysis so for their general youtube audience who is not as in deep in comics the result makes sense. Ben vs Hal was a huge ball drop from them.
The only reason Sonic won in the original was the ignorant assumption that power-ups canceled each other out, once this was corrected the team came to the assumption that Mario would win because he could just Spam invincibility power-ups. And that's not even going into how Sonic shouldn't have won by that episodes but Nemesis already explained that
There are three types of people who critique Death Battle. -People who analyze the episode itself, and call out what they liked or didn't like about the animation, writing, and skits. -"My Dad should've beaten your dad and here's why." -"My Dad beat your dad but he should've beaten him harder."
My personal problem with the episode wasn’t Ben being beaten but instead the way Ben was beaten. Idk shit about GL so if he just beat Ben in some beam struggle or started mollywhopping him then I’d be fine with that since I can’t really argue against the strength of a character I don’t know. BUT the way he beats Ben makes no sense with what we know about Ben10. Alien X should’ve been able to follow him, the Omnitrix should’ve reacted to bens arm being cut off, why was Ben still a child if you’re gonna have Hal fucking murder him?
I think the catch-up thing was how a fight would play out in most scenarios of this same fight, even with DB's animation having Ben leading the fight most of the time. Hal was able to handle all of Ben's forms pretty well, so it's not too hard to imagine that Hal could flip the script on Ben and Ben would be struggling if Hal took the lead in the fight. I also felt like the 'soft debunk' of Alien X was actually just them saying "Hey, just because Alien X can manipulate reality and can create and destroy a universe, it's not like his powers are that unbeatable", with the Annihilarrgh as an example of Alien X's control over reality and kind of likely other abilities not being infallible. I think this was also the first time DB made the argument that the DC universe is larger than our own, and considering what happened with Jean Grey and the 16th death and the Marvel universe being larger after Hulk vs Broly after the voice work was done... I think it's reasonable to say that something like that happened here. Part of me feels like some of these problems are caused because of poor writing due to trying to wrap a head around all the crazy stuff these characters can do and make it into a cohesive argument and scans being cut due to time constraints.
I feel like a major reason people were dissatisfied with the results is that this episode felt disrespectful towards Ben 10 considering this episode was released around the height of Ben 10's popularity in vs discussions only for death battle to go "oh the guy who you consider to be stronger than superman? Nah, his ass can't even beat Green Lantern" without really explaining it properly. That's the thing, there are plenty of newer episodes where they took characters the internet believes to be invincible, only to have them lose, like Archie Sonic and Saitama, the difference is that those episodes had a satisfying explanation as to why those characters lost, the biggest example I can think of being in Flash vs Sonic, I fully expected Sonic to win. The difference is, the conclusion made perfect sense, so after listening to it I went "yeah, that makes sense" and gained a new appreciation for Wally West. In this they went "nah, Ben 10 isn't that powerful, he's not even universal in the absolute worst reasoning ever, and all those super OP abilities he has? Pshhhh, no big deal, they just won't work". They didn't go into full detail on valid reasons why GL would win (which I do believe) like lantern rings being the most complex technology ever, way more advanced than the omnitrix, Green Lantern's ability onto HOW he could get around the failsafes, and his experience with celestial beings beyond alien x. Basically, instead of bringing GL up, it felt like they were putting Ben 10 down, and with their incredibly faulty reasonings, it also made them look super non credible. VS debates are subjective, yes, but you still need valid reasons as to why a character won or lost. It's why, despite disagreeing with a lot of episodes like Hulk VS Broly, I can at least respect and understand where they're coming from and hold it much higher than an episode like Frieza vs Megatron or this one, which I still agree with the results, but their reasonings were so bad I view the episode in a bad light. I do understand why the verdict does mean so much to a lot of people, and to me personally, while it's not the biggest contributing factor of enjoyment, it still is a big one, whether that be objective reasonings like reasonable conclusions, or subjective ones like my preferred character not getting their ass kicked. Obviously it's not the only thing I value, otherwise a season as great as season ten would be my least favorite season due to how often my preferred character lost this season, but at the end of the day, death battle asks a question of who would win in the fight, and in that regard, the thesis does have understandable importance, and if someone has major issues with it, then it's perfectly reasonable why they are unhappy with the whole episode. Like I said though, in the end, it's not the only thing that matters, and I wouldn't even say it's the most important thing, otherwise an episode with a terrible verdict and conclusion, but everything else being great like Frieza vs megatron would be an episode I hate more than Korra VS storm, which is my actual least favorite episode of death battle, despite the verdict being the only thing about the episode that isn't absolute fucking dogshit.
I disagree with Raven vs Phoenix's result ( I still rooted for Raven ) and I was REALLY REALLY shocked with the result and didn't find the conclusion good, then I realized wow comics are fucked and moved on
Yeah that is kind of DB's thing. Even if the result is wrong, and raven winning is wrong, is their analysis that matters and if you don't buy it well, nothing bad happens. You just disagree and that is all there is.
@@oceanoman Not really given that Phoenix controls life force, a higher version of soul manipulation, and the fact that it is capable of protecting Jean's soul which is how she revives, plus it was easily capable of burning Thor's soul so the whole point of the phoenix not being able to finish Raven off isn't true, neither are the stats since if it wasn't for Jim Corrigan who bonded with him, giving Raven the opportunity the win, white phoenix being on a similar level as something like Specter and argueably above it should tell you how outclassed Raven was in stats, and lets not talk about Unkindness vulnerability to time traveling foes. Also the speed calc was iffy at best but none of that really matters though since what counts is what DB shows and with the analysis that they did the majority of the audience, like you, will have no issue seeing Raven winning inspite of it being a wrong result when you read the comics.
@@oceanoman If you actually read the comics you would have known that Spectre was dunking on her and throwing everything back at her, she was about to die so allow me to take your "i've read the comics mate" with a pinch of salt. 2. Raven attacked him while he was vulnerable and let the other demons do the rest. She basically only finished the job while he was already down. You sure you read the comics bro? And it is very neat that you remember all of that, but this only makes her content at the same level of the phoenix when at full power. Considering that the phoenix controls life force and that is life and death across everywhere at marvel this only means that Raven has a chance at hurting the phoenix, not beat it. 3. Even if Raven regenerates so does Phoenix, so the battle ends, at best for Raven, in a stalemate since she doesn't has the power to match being on the same level as phoenix, pretty much like Specter. 4. Even if Raven can time travel she is still vulnerable to it. Unkindness's defeat involved time travel and a being above all realities, concepts, literal writing narrative while it lives in it's own made up space like the white phoenix can easily do that and alter future events so that Raven won't have unkindness again, not like it needed to since it outclasses Raven greatly unless you give the goth chick all beneficts of the doubt and ignore all the anti feats against her while ignoring the Phoenix's abilities for convenience then yes, phoenix losses.
@@oceanoman Which doesn't make much sense, Raven still has a lot of stamina, if asmodeus was even remotelly close to Specter then Raven would have been easily handled. So no, not in the same tier. Unless we take character statements as 100% true while ignoring that this is a comic and characters can be boastful and lie.
@@oceanoman 2.Ok, so in other words Neron is not that impressive, since he is weaker than Trigon, so it was pointless to even bring him up. 3. All those characters have different and vastly power levels, you yourself admited it when saying that Neron defeated Trigon. No reason to bring these up since yeah, none of them scale to beings like the phoenix, unless you believe that Trigon is on the same tier as Spectre which is constantly showed to not be the case, as much as the writers say the two are equal Trigon never does things that suggest he is near the Spectre. Even if two characters have the same power doesn't means they are equal, for example white phoenix has better control than unkindness raven ever had over souls since it controls life force, raven only deals soul hax and that is not enough. 4. Cool, Raven doing her best can match something the phoenix does casually, existing outside of reality, and still having time travel being part of what stopped her by being below her power, so for white crown phoenix that is easy and the fire bird wins. 5. "By death metal statements" has no reason to be believable. Word of god/author can only be considered when it doesn't contradicts what happens, if it's believable and it doesn't includes something ridiculous. Asmodeus being equal ti Spectre makes no sense since Raven was totally outmatched and about to die when Spectre decided go not play around with her anymore. If she was a bit tired (she wasn't) then it shouldn't have been so one sided but it was. This means that whatever statements an author makes doesn't means it is true. Frankly I have a very hard time believing that you actually read the comics and not some battle boarding site with scans like GameSpot, Comic Vine or VS Battle Wiki :/
I like that Kuro is pretty okay with the show now. He even showed up during Bentember in the live chats during the Ben 10 debates, and it was as if the final boss showed up
@@justinalicea1590: That’s kinda my point. He could’ve just taken the watch after cutting his arm off and brought him to a hospital but he had to be an asshole and kill him.
I was one of the people that disliked the episode on release but have soften up to it. The reasoning for my hate and maybe others is because Ben represented western animation and was the 2nd Cartoon Network character to appear in a show primarily dominated by combatants from Anime, Comics, and Video games. So seeing representation from my favorite cartoon reignited a spark in me as I didn't even consider Ben 10 for a Death Battle, but him losing made me let emotion rule out reason.
I'm kinda late to this since i was just recommended this video, but i personally was a GL fan and ben 10 fan, i loved both of them growing up, and felt kinda bad from the battle, cause from what i remembered of GL growing up he was always more limited. Like every time i picked up GL, in movies, comics and shows he was shown limits way beneath what they gave him in the battle,which made me feel as though i was a fake fan and them not well explaining it made me feel kinda dumb, where as I was given a way clearer picture of ben's abilities in the series. Like I remember many comics where green lanterns hit their limits in doing way more mundane stuff than what death battle showed, like them struggling to create a city construct or hold a planet together or move the earth, them shown being mind controlled multiple times or having green lantern rings be broken or hacked, etc, and yet I never remembered them doing anything more impressive than holding back the big bang. Since The episode I have learnt way more of hal's peak abilities, and i can see where they came from. But it does show that I who read green lantern didn't buy their explainations in episode since they didn't really phrase themselves well, and left me with a confusing/incomplete picture. You basically gave me the missing piece of why i disliked the episode even though i like both characters, they were so bad at explaining it that i didn't believe the episode and didn't feel like i could come to the same conclusion with the evidence they provided.
Honestly. The episode I hate the most is Ultron vs Sigma. And that’s because of ONE LIE. They lied in Ultron rundown, giving him a critical weakness he apparently never had and just “lol noped” that weakness away in the analysis. If it was better explained I could accept it easier. That’s usually when I have real problems with episodes. It’s when they explicitly lie, manipulate info, or explain things horribly. (Although let’s be honest here. The most accurate episode 100% is Eggman vs Wily. No way in hell that confrontation ends any differently. That’s one of my faves.)
I actually think the result of eggman vs wily is actually... I think wily winning? I mean quickman is if i'm not misremembering faster than metal sonic, there's robot masters way more crazier than all of eggman's badniks (for example coldman being able to create absolute Zero (pun intended) temperatures, and solar man to create fire hotter than the sun) he just has more fire power, and roboenza isn't really a factor to me because it is dangerous to even wily itself (as shown in megaman 10) and realistically metal sonic isn't going to transform into neo metal sonic because now that the idw comics are canon eggman likely would have removed that feature. But well, it's still pretty darn close with all the final boss machinery that eggman has that give him an edge.
I don’t get your point here, besides giving Ultron a weakness he apparently never had what else was wrong with the analysis because they put everything pretty straight forward
i cannot agree with that reasoning yes there's one wrong thing in the episode but the analysis outside of it is pretty good and that fight is fucking awesome
So much missed opportunity. We could've had a Jetray vs. Hal Jordan in a Jet construct dog fight; Hal's favorite construct is a jet and missiles, because duh he was a hot shot pilot. And biggest missed opportunity, Ben using Toe Pick or Ghost Freak; And Hal surrounded by fear, scoffs, and speaks the GL oath, then he breaks free. It could even tie in to the supernova bit, Hal commenting on how he's also done this several times already.
There were two interactions that I wanted to see that I was disappointed didn't come up in the animation: Ben has a transformation called Toepick whose entire power set is being so horrifying to look at that it causes basically anyone who looks at it to collapse in fear. He also has Chromastone, whose gimmick is being able to absorb energy/light based attacks and fire them back. Even if neither of those would be enough to make a difference in the final outcome, those were concepts that came to mind for me while waiting for the death battle to come out and it would have been nice to see them as beats within the fight.
Multiple of Ben's aliens have the ability to absorb the exact kind of energy Hal projects and he has shown the ability to absorb and redirect universal+ level threats with them. There's also multiple aliens that can make him infinitely smarter than Hal. Then there's Upgrade, the tech manipulator, who could potentially interact with Hal's ring which is advanced technology. The list goes on and on because Ben has such a wide variety of aliens and many of them have extremely unique and creative abilities. They acted like Alien X was his only option then lowballed it, but neither of those things are accurate. It just really showed they didn't even try to accurately research him.
@@GigaLigma The problem with that is that Alien X really was Ben's only option. All of his other aliens are too slow and/or too weak to keep up with Hal. Also, absorbing the energy of a Green Lantern is pretty difficult since it's actual willpower and is something makes up part of the underlying structure of DC's cosmology. That's to mention that Hal would just... absorb it back or just overpower Ben's absorption through the sheer amount of energy he has (seriously, Hal Jordan has so much willpower that he overpowered Ion, the literal concept of willpower and the entity that grants all Green Lanterns their powers, with his own willpower, and no, I'm not joking). Plus, universe+ level threats are pretty common in DC and are much weaker than Hal, so absorbing that much energy wouldn't really affect him. As for becoming smarter than Hal, ok? That won't really help Ben if he gets speed-blitzed, one-shot, and/or out-haxxed. Plus, isn't Alien X technically smarter? As for Upgrade, Green Lantern tech has resistance to hacking that even multiversal supergenius's in DC can't hack into them, and Hal could just use his Ring to hack back into Upgrade's stuff. Plus, Hal could just make himself a new Ring out of his own willpower if needed (yes, he's done that).
@@infernousgaming1393 All any of this does is show that you are a diehard fan of Hal Jordan and know nothing about Ben in comparison. A lot of what you said is true, except when it comes to Ben, because you just flat out do not know anywhere near as much about him. You don't know the speeds of his fastest forms, the intelligence feats of his smartest forms, the energy absorption and redirection feats of his best absorbers; you don't even know that Upgrade has never been shown to be incapable of hacking ANYTHING and is CONSTANTLY used against extremely advanced alien tech or even living tech foes. See, this really annoys me because I'm a big fan of BOTH characters, so reading comments like this from people who obviously know everything about one and absolutely nothing about the other, it's just obnoxious and that's all the actual death battle was too. Even the people doing the episode seemed to know practically nothing about Ben and there's no point even trying to debate with someone who has no idea what they're debating against and doesn't care to learn. Just know that this fight is nowhere near the one-sided stomp it's made out to be by GL stans and TONS of Ben's aliens could give Hal a lot of unique problems you seem oblivious to.
@@GigaLigmaseriously clockwork, nano mech, upgrade, toe pick, ghost freak, and feedback all have power of some form of manipulation that would mop Hal’s ring. I mean toe pick could put Hal in a forever fear state and just rip the finger off
The ink tank actually did a great breakdown of the episode of death battle and why it got things wrong crucial things wrong in the research. I like Green Lantern and you should really check out Ben 10 from classic all the way up to Omniverse.
Alien X literally exists outside of time and space. Not only did he not notice the universe being erased, but he also took zero damage from it and just effortlessly brought it back. Basically, even if Ben was attacked in the past as long as he was still alien X, nothing should have phased him, and once he noticed, he just went back in time and killed green lantern while he was enjoying his victory and then just brought himself back to life with time manipulation and called it a day. The whole fight just feels like a gag at the end that makes no sense, but people are expected to take it seriously
@l0sts0ul89 so does alien X. And even though he has all this "power," he still couldn't win and decided to travel back in time and kill Ben before the fight even started like a bitch
@@keshang_laow8325 Nope, in the Q&A Liam shows ManofAction stating that Celstialsapiens are incapable of Multiversal feats outside of doing it together asa group
I love how insightful and well educated this video is. I love Ben ten, I love it to death, this is one of the episodes that brought me back into death battle and the controversy is just…tiring.
I think the main problem people had was not THAT ben lost. But HOW ben lost. - A one sided time-travel strike is a cheap win, when both sides can time travel. - Detachment without the omnitrix reacting goes against multiple instances where the omnitrix reacts to preceived acts of detachment even before being touched. - The omnitrix not being autonomous when attached to Bens DNA is also directly contradicted by the show itself since his hand (despite still being linked to him, meaning it is not just autonomous but actually can overwrite Bens command) is actually controlled by the omnitrix. - And one of the most creative power switchers with the transformation that has the most diverse skilset goes full goku and just punches really hard. That does not show insight into the character. That shows they had a severe, and I mean SEVERE lack of research going into bens side. Would these factors change the outcome of the fight? I don't think so. But would it make the fight end on a better note? Absolutely. [A small gripe about your video tho: The Argument that people who point out bias are biased sounds good ... and that is where it ends. It is nonsense and you are better off not using phrases which get a pass only because they sound good but add zero value to the conversation and stigmitises a very legitimate concern. You are better than that.]
1. Ben has never time traveled without the help of either other people or devices. If Ben could time travel, he would have no need for the time cycles in "End of an era", and that was AFTER Ben gained control of Alien X. 2. The omnitrix has no failsafe for limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself from Ben's wrist. Cutting Ben's arm off is neither of those. Every time someone tried to cut Ben's arm off, he was saved by outside help, never by the omnitrix. Not that this matters because Hal's constructs are faster than the failsafe. 3. Ben is not particularly creative with his aliens. When he fought Galactic Gladiator, all Ben did was punch and kick, and didn't even do anything beyond basic stuff like that until he was grabbed and used clones to break out. Even when Galactic Gladiator grew bigger, Ben didn't even think "Hm...maybe I should do that too" instead literally going back on his deal with Bellicus and Serena by asking them for help. It is not in-character for Ben to use any of Alien X's more op abilities. Bellicus and Serena were the ones who recreated the universe, not Ben. The fandom heavily overplays Ben's intelligence. It is literally a running gag throughout omniverse that Ben is an idiot. He doesn't even solve any problems by himself. Even Rook comments on it.
@@tobymulema4430 An immature teenager who can't do shit without other people helping him is NOT smarter than an adult with decades of experience. Omniverse literally makes fun of Ben for being so dumb.
@@tobymulema4430 Hal has literally killed multiversal gods who make anything in Ben 10 look like child's play, including Alien X. He can do more than "create big fists". Read the comics, not the non canon animated and live action stuff. Hal has decades more experience fighting than Ben. Ben has not even been alive for half as long as Hal has been fighting intergalactic threats. Stop trying to make Ben sound impressive, he's not. Not compared to Hal, anyway.
@@tobymulema4430 The best Ben has done is create ONE universe. That's it. You want me to name these multiversal gods? Ok let's start then. Darkseid Parallax Krona Spectre Superboy Prime Nekron Captain Atom Ion
Slight correction I have absolutely no idea where there getting that the failsafe has a cool down unless there's a source for that there is absolutely not a cool down for the failsafe. Furthermore the Omnitrix has been shown to actually be somewhat sentient and was also able to react faster than the big bang and contain it in feedback. Also the failsafe not only can keep Ben alive by transforming into the alien he needs at that moment which by the way the transformations are actually instantaneous the transformation sequences are just for the viewer the failsafe also keeps the Omnitrix from being removed or used by anyone else other than Ben.
I only mentioned the cooldown because it's what Death Battle said (and even then I thought that Liam should've brought up a scan or clip or something).
@@JonathanFrostathanthe cooldown was ben 10 doing by just slapping down the Omnitrix either setting a random timer or just ending up with the wrong aliens. Stated in the ben 10 movie by the creator of the Omnitrix. The Omnitrix is able to keep Ben in the aliens for a long period of time or set in the lock mode to keep him in that alien form like in the Omniverse.
@@majesticgothitelle1802and also the red state is highly theorized to be just a feature for safety(dna getting scrambled or something weird like that) or something to protect the user from going crazy.
@@SuperDestroyerFox it only really been seem with rath, feedback and Ghost freak that changes the personality of Ben. Feedback is the only alien that Ben became obsessed with after turning into the first time.
@@majesticgothitelle1802 he was using it constantly because he just found him strong and kept using him until when he got removed from the omitrix. When that happened Ben felt like he lost a part of himself.
Its not that ben loat that's infuriating. Its how ben lost. 1, hal time traveled, somethjng alien x is shown doing in his debut episode, and 2, hal cut off ben's arm, somethjng which has been shown on several occasions to be impossible.
@@justinalicea1590 what about that time ben's arm gets severed from his body when Ben is in the null void and the omnitrix controls the arm to get out of danger and back to ben? Or that time the omnitrix caused a shock wave when Ben's arm was about to be cut off? Also, even if alien x couldn't time travel, maltruant, a chrono sapien, has been shown to be able to. Ben has a chrono sapien form. Ben could easily time travel too, even if alien x couldn't, but, considering alien x is capable of creating an entire universe, mind control, creating a black whole, and controlling time upon first transforming into him, I'm willing to say he could reasonably be assumed to be capable of time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 Hal surviving multiversal erasure is also an assumption, yet I've seen you say that a million times. Only Kilowag was ever directly shown being hit by the crisis wave. If we're allowed to give Hal that kind of leniency we should also give Alien X the ability to time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 but if its the lantern ring that allows people to survive multiversal erasure, and hal has it and that means hal can survive, then chrono sapiens being able to time travel and Ben having a chrono sapien form means Ben can time travel. Scaling works for both characters.
@@VannyBeumer DC is so god damn overpowered nowadays it ain't even funny it's just like "Oh he destroyed an Omegaverse that's so cool and very creative"
21:09: Okay I’m going to interject with the fights you’ve picked Blake vs. Mikasa is overhated, to the point people think it’s biased to RoosterTeeth and RWBY, which wtf, bro, that doesn’t matter, this is a popular matchup and a lot of people love it, yes the episodes has flaws but it’s still enjoyable. In fact, it made Youronlynate happy that he got his dream episode and my girlfriend loves this episode because she loves Blake, you can say I have a lot of leniency for this particular matchup Android 18 vs. Captain Marvel: Yes, it has issues especially in showing that 18 is more powerful than Carol, I could be misremembering I’m sorry, it has some enjoyable moments and that’s all it has Thor vs. Raiden: Yes, this is a Season 1 episode but practically one of those fun episodes in terms of enjoyability with the fight Korra vs. Storm: Matchup idea dumb, should’ve been Rey yes, is it enjoyable, yeah, one of some good Avatar episodes, yes she gets curb-stomped by Storm, but it’s still another enjoyable episode, and another where I had leniency Venom vs. Crona: Yes, there are some issues but it’s one of the better Venom episodes compared to his last one, even with some of the problems, it’s a decent episode to watch Sanji vs. Rock Lee: Yes, butchering Lee’s characterization, bad, going by some of his 8 Gates, rushed, but I still like this episode, choreography, the death and the whole fight was enjoyable
Honestly I'm kind of glad they didn't use Rey because, as much as I like the character, the analysis in Korra vs Storm was SUPER bad, and I don't want to see a universe where they describe every Rey feat by screaming "QUEEN SHIT" like an out of character white woman. Also I'm pretty certain that the comment section would have been the most toxic and disrespectful of any DB video regardless of if she won or not, I mean even the more recent DBC of Kylo Ren vs Edelgard was pretty nasty.
I really enjoy how in depth you went with your analysis of this episode. And how you ultimately hammered home and greatly emphasized how vs debates are subjective. Honestly, I see too much hate and people ripping each other apart over who would win. It's fine to be passionate about your favorite character... just respect the other person's, my guy.
Ben's omnitrix has been shown to prevent limb removal, and even in the instance of the limb being removed, the omnitrix has just taken over bens body. The omnitirx isnt jus lt a watch. it's an intelligent ai that has adapted to multiple instances like the Big Bang or getting crushed under objects
It has never been shown to prevent limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not chopping his whole arm off with the omnitrix still on it. And that was because Sunder did not actually chop off Ben's flesh and blood, His hand was dimensionally separated but still physically connected, which is why he can still feel it when other people are touching his severed hand. This does not prove the omnitrix can do anything if someone actually cuts his arm off normally without any dimensional displacement nonsense. Ben had no control over his transformations in that state. Other people needed to pick up the omnitrix and mess with its controls to change Ben. The limb removal failsafe simply does not exist.
Fun fact: RUclips uses the background music on videos to suggest similar content to the video you're watching. Came here from the recommendations on a tally hall video
There are some episodes I either don't want to watch or revisit because of the character I like more losing or just not being done well, and sometimes it can be really draining talking about those episodes especially if it's one where I care much less about the actual verdict and more of the characterization of the character I like more, I don't think I have to explain why Ed vs Aang is one of those (It hurts double when you love both), but any time I mention I don't like Ganondorf vs Dracula because of how Ganondorf is handled the discussion immediately becomes possibly one of the most annoying things, and yea I can be pretty stern with it but that is also just due in part to me just being sick of Smash being used for animation purposes when he literally does not fight like that at all, seeing him be characterized as a mindless brawler who just goes in all the time again and again is irritating, combine this with how Zelda has been treated in the vs community for years just because of two specific episodes and you have a recipe for disaster for how I feel about stuff, the stuff I already don't like about it plus the discussions/arguments I get in about it just makes me not want to touch the episode at all again, Vader vs Obito will be hard to revisit again but I can at least watch it and enjoy how he actually feels like himself in the fight and how the analysis is pretty good despite the outcome which would bring me back to it. The discussion of DB episodes can be annoying at times, and even disagreeing (Or agreeing with in some of my circumstances) can get you in such hot water for no reason, it would be nice if eventually all that can die down and more people start to understand and see that vs is subjective.
I have finally fully watched the video I just want to say : Thank you so much for making this it's own video and thank you for giving kuro an actual good criticism as opposed to what many DB fans did This video as a Ben10 fan and as someone who is currently regaining my love for DC and especially hal jordan is nothing short of amazing And I enjoyed it , disagree with some stuff but eh opinions and shit ig I'm excited for your season 6 retrospective and your content is amazing and you're one of the best people I saw in the vs communit tbh
In my opinion the verdict does and doesn’t matter. Let’s say this: If po lost against iron fist or stitch lost against rocket most people wouldn’t have liked it as much because some of the first movie characters lost. Sure they still liked the episode but they would have been happier if they won. People are biased by nature so are always more happy when one character wins than another. I love Kirby vs Majin Buu and sure if Kirby lost I wouldn’t have loved it as much but seeing my boy getting the respect was nice. It’s like how you hate ragna vs sol. Sure the verdict didn’t matter but the way they treated your character did. In guts vs dimitri if the first fire emblem character lost it would have soured the episode a bit. In conclusion sure it shouldn’t really matter but seeing your preferred character get the respect they deserve and winning will always make people happier.
@@e1iteyoshi998 That Steven lost or how he was represented. He was represented great in the fight with him being extremely kind and not wanting to fight until he went pink and became murderous like in the show.
The reason Alien X was too slow to stop the universe from being destroyed was cause Ben hadn't unlocked Alien X's full capabilities by finally getting the other two personalities of Alien X to cooperate, yet.
that's possible, but i doubt it. they didn't debate or draw it out, they just immediately told him that it was too late to stop the destruction, even though it as still happening. it's the first time they've ever gotten right to the point, no less. though not the first time the alien personalities were too slow to act, even in the era when they both could override ben by agreeing.
alien x wasnt too slow omg. did you not watch the episode. ben literally said himself why he didnt stop it. damn ppl are so oblivious. ben didnt know it was being destroyed. thats it, period.
@@e2d_rblx he actually did. the voices even confirmed it for him, but told him it was too late to do anything about it anyway. the destruction wasn't even done, they just couldn't do anything at this point.
Yeah, I've seen the argument so many times that Alien X is limited based solely on the fact that he can't control it until the very very end of the series. He overcomes the form's limits and this form turns into the strongest celestialsapien in existence due to this.
This video felt like a genuine analysis and retrospective on the GL vs. Ben 10 Death Battle all up until the analysis of Kuro the Artist's take on the same video. Once he got to that point, it just felt like he was an angry Green Lantern fan yelling at a Ben 10 fan, and it just screamed bias. Yeah, Kuro is a huge part of the Ben 10 community and obviously has bias, but Johnny here judt seems to be doing the exact same thing Kuro did, and simply enforcing his Green Lantern bias and getting upset at someone trying to debunk the fact his prefered character won. I definitely think both sides have valid arguments as to why one over the other should've won, but maybe have an open mind to the other sides arguments, and this goes to Johnny and Kuro, instead of just pulling out the "Nuh uh" card and screaming at the top of your lungs that the other side is just straight up wrong 23:31
I definitely understand your side and agree with you, but the example you went with was more of a joke thing btw. I think that there are better examples you could've gone with. Also, that was definitely not the top of my lungs. I've gone way higher than that in the past. Also, what "Green Lantern bias"? I literally say that I'm neutral on the debate and that Hal isn't one of my favorite DC characters lol.
I was annoyed back in the day at the fact Ben lost but these days I'm over it. The only real thing that bugs me about how DB did Ben is; 1. His portrayal 2. Analysis of Ben and battle's aftermath besides the ending imo the fight was actually pretty lit and the music was awesome
Plus, everything in the prelude basically said "Ben's gonna win this. It's gonna be tough, but Ben's got a slight edge in enough places where he can pull the win" And then they had Hal do something he's never done before in any iteration to pull a win, and it felt like an ass-pull
What i hate about this argument as a whole is that ben 10 fans say that ben should have won and give reasoning but most people on hal's side just do not say anything other than you are wrong without giving reasoning, they are right but boy they don't want to look like it
Yeah this kinda leads to the situation I have where I dont know any feats for the Green Lantern ring in specific that arent directly tied to Hal. I understand Hal uses it really well but I dont know what it's generally capable of and in comparison to what I know the Omnitrix can do it makes it seem like the Omnitrix and it's semi-sentience is just stronger than the average ring. Plus I've yet to see anyone properly explain how Hal could survive instant erasure. He survives non-instant erasure, sure, but that required him to summon his willpower and act against it. Something he wouldnt be able to do to Alien X's instant erasure.
Characters not fighting creatively is something Death Battle constantly struggles with. They use characters that can utilize their powers in unique ways yet all they do is slap each other until one falls over. I’ve been watching them for over a decade and they keep making the same mistakes. They’re not good at what they try to do.
It takes a lot of time to do something truly awesome and unique especially when it comes to a match like this , it'll take weeks or more of animation to make a 5 minute fight which isn't always worth it when running a show. I wish It was better though
I thought ben should have won initially because of, like you described, the poorly written conclusion. looking into it a bit more and just coming to the understanding that dc shouldn't even really be in match up videos given how ridiculous they are power wise and I'm significantly more chill about it nowadays. that being said I wish they'd used some more variety with bens aliens and I still think the scissors thing was dumb, though the way you portrayed it made it a bit more sensical.
i grew up with ben 10 so seeing hin lose made me upset alien x seemed really weak which is weird i fell like the while time travel thing was kind of a Boring way to end i even ben still lost could have do something cool like goku vs superman and lets fact it hal killing a child in cold blood is something he never do i know is death battle but still is a bit crazy
It's always hilarious seeing the salty wankers try and find ANY reason for their character to win. The Alucard wankers are especially hilarious, throwing around the word omnipresent without knowing what it even means and with ZERO feats to support it.
True, but Ben is literally the God of the universe he is in. The universe got destroyed and he made a copy of it. Their is an episode where he goes to trial for it.
@@rolay7730 And....? Green Lantern is capable of working around that. Power isn't everything. Also just putting it out there that Alien X sucks narratively speaking. A literal Gary Sue race.
@jackstar7204 How does the omnitrix suck? Not ever transformation us that strong and he usually refuses to pick aliens that are too strong out of a sense of fairness. I fully agree about that with the green lantern ring. At least Ben doesn't just think about being strong and get a boost like the ring does.
@@rolay7730 I never said anything about the Omnitrix, I said that Alien X specifically sucks because it takes all narrative tension away. Why worry if a villain is going to win if you can just turn into GOD?
"Why do you care about the result? Would you like if the other character won but the episode was shit otherwise?" No. And that's a dumb argument. Obviously if the episode is shit, then it's shit. Regardless of who wins. But that's not an argument against the result being important. That's such a bad faith argument, which sucks because I enjoyed the rest of the video. Only thing I disagree with is that it's fair to use other Lanterns for Hal's feats. By that logic every single Lantern also has Hal's feats. Hal should be able to stand on his own; he's more than powerful enough.
That's not how that works, hal has been stated numerous times to have the greatest willpower of any green lantern, and the more willpower they have the stronger a green lantern is. So hal can do anything another green lantern with weaker willpower than him can do but not vice versa, because he has the most willpower. All green lanterns have the same exact set of powers, they just have different output, and hal has the greatest output out of them all.
@@valenschristianyosua "Hal could, in theory, do things the other Lanterns did." Yeah, but Hal didn't do them. That's not hos Death Battle works. We're pitting Ben against Hal, not against the hypothetical ideal Lantern (which would probably still be Hal, but that's beside the point)
Oh this was a very interesting watch. I am very new to watching death battle related stuff thanks to my partner’s Ranking videos, so learning about things like How Green Lanturn vs Ben 10 was so controversial has been uh. Hmm. Hard to wrap my head around? I am very much in a “idc who wins. As long as i enjoy the episode its neat.” Having a character I like win is just a cherry on top.
Glad you enjoyed it. Also, I hope that my $8 donation from yesterday's stream helps you guys out. Or at the very least, be enough to castrate Elon Musk. ;)
Actually the part about about Omnitrix mutation because being of it is over used wasn’t actually because of Kevin. Bit instead mention as a text as a “did you know fact” as a extra thing in a DVD from the Ben 10 shows franchise (just like how they brought up how Toph can feel earth that isn’t connected to the ground. But Ben 10 VS Green Lantern they don’t show where it comes from). I remember this because someone posted a screenshot of of the fun fact text on Reddit around 1.5 years ago. I can’t actually show the screenshot because I haven’t actually been able to find it myself and I didn’t download the picture of the screenshot on my phone, and I don’t think I have a chance to find the post again after so long time.
They likely got that information from a flashback in omniverse, where Azmuth said that relying on one form too much could cause him lack control with others OR from the reboot when the omnitrix had was broken and kept rotating between aliens and Phil said "there's no DNA signature for Ben". Tldr....they misinterpreted information...shocker
This is an interesting video to discover your channel from. I will say that I grew up with Ben 10 so I’m 100% biased in his favor but I know that outside of Batman characters most DC characters are cracked. I feel Hal wins though I feel the fight itself was pretty disappointing as someone who returned to watching DB with the episode. My main issue is how weirdly Ben is represented. Like you’ve seen the Kuro video so seeing Kid Ben pulling out Alien X is the same energy as seeing like Classic Megaman use a Megaman X ability. As someone who adored the franchise seeing them only use Original Series aliens (and Alien X) then proceed to blue ball the fans by bringing up numerous cool aliens Ben used and their stats…it really hurts man. Also stings learning apparently there was a cut scene with RATH and they cut it????? I feel in retrospect Ben 10 is legit one of the harder fighters to use with the budget DB fights have, but man I just wanted to see the Ben I watched over the years and see some of the cooler stuff like Atomix, Crash Hopper, Chromastone, and Buzzshock. I heard apparently they want to use Ben again in the future and honestly I support them doing it I feel they can improve using Ben in the future (the DBX was…alright? I like that they used more aliens but also seeing every alien’s sprite be literally the Official art but pixelated takes me out of the fight constantly) I really enjoy hearing your thoughts on this especially seeing you cover the Kuro videos since while I use to agree with him on some parts the composite Ben bit was so scuffed! Welp…time to go through your Catelog and catch up on your content. Amazing video!!
Hal is able to be scaled to the feats of every other Lantern, since they all wield the same weapon, namely the Power Ring. If you have enough willpower, (and Hal does indeed), then you can accomplish the same feats. Simple really.
At the end of the day, it's the ben 10 community who got mad as they usually do. Why? Because they think ben 10 is the most powerful character in fiction now and can't accept another character beating him, but here's my conclusion: Ultraman negs both of them.
First there’s a biff weed review, than DigitalTy’s season 8 premiere later today. And now an almost half hour long review on one of my favorite episodes. Not a half bad day for death battle fans.
This video is amazing a couple notes. 1. I really wish you brought up Time Huh? not because I think it's funny but it's because I don't really get the joke 😭. IDK who else could explain it. I only laugh at it because I know it's a meme which feels worse than actually knowing the punchline. 2. #ObitoSweep #RavenSweep #HankPymSweep I got all of them wrong too (while I did change my mind before the animation started it was after I did way too much digging on the characters in a way that it wasn't really a prediction at that point.) I feel your pain homie.
Didn’t you think it was weird how alien x, a being that exists outside of the universe, is somehow affected by someone else’s time traveling? It just feels weird to me that he can just go back to before he transformed, when that shouldn’t theoretically be possible, also the fact that he survived the Big Bang purely because of the omnitrix acting on its own
Because existing outside the universe is not really a feat. It doesn't grant you any special powers. I don't even know how this misconception came to be. By that logic so many normal humans in DC would be unaffected by someone else's time traveling.
@@mauricereticau6292existing beyond our universe really isn't a feat, though sotobro effect from alien X and chronosapiens do counter this specific instance
Their whole race are born in a plane beyond the multiverse and space time. Alien X is practically immune to the effects of time that includes time travel. It's also weird why he didn't just follow Hal through the time stream
@@mauricereticau6292 thats why the universe disintegrating had absolutely no effect on alien X, thats like saying the beyonder existing outside the multiverse had no effect on his power stupid logic
@@kwalterrasquinha413 That's not how that works at all. Existing outside something doesn't mean anything. You need to actually show you have multiversal durability for it to be true. We know he has universal durability because he actually did tank that. But until explicitly proven, he is not multiversal in any way.
I went into the episode thinking Hal stomped the entire known Omnitrix and that Alien X would be the great equalizer and just strong enough to pull out a victory. The cheap win in a fashion that just wouldn't work in context of the episode in addition to the explaination being different from what I saw was what made me mad.
My issues with certain episodes from the past seasons stem from the inconsistency or sometimes rather a lack of not enough research for one character. It's not the first they've done this too: Goku vs Superman, Scout vs Tracer, this one, and Nathan Drake vs Lara Croft are the biggest examples. But for me the worst one i think can of was with Archie Silver/Xeno Trunks and Twilight Sparkle vs Raven. Twilight vs Raven is a more personal matchup I've wanted to see for awhile since I'm a fan of Tara Strong as she's played both characters. The reason why the episode turned out to be a massive disappointment though was cause of how the research was unbalanced. Raven's soul self was calculated precisely to the point where i can tell they did their work with how powerful but i find it questionable how they can apply the rl physics to when her soul self isn't a physical form. And when it came down to Twilight i feel like they didn't cover enough material for her despite the claim they look at all materials. Yet they only looked at the tv show and movies. There's an entire comics series that has Twilight showing off lots of insane skills with magic and i don't get why they didn't apply any of it to their analysis. And i don't see time constraints as an excuse when they looked through hundreds of Marvel comics to see if Raiden's blade could cut through Wolverine's Adamantium skull in Raiden vs Wolverine episode. It made me feel like Raven was heavily favored in the episode. As for Archie Silver and Xeno/DBH Trunks the research for that episode made me realize that they didn't know what they were talking about with the research when they did Archie Sonic vs the Flash. Several feats they gave Silver and even scaling to Archie Sonic contradicted the info from that episode and honestly made it seem like Xeno/DBH Trunks was underpowered compared to Archie Silver. I know the Archie Sonic comics are known for characters breaking the rules of their respective universe but even by DB standards i felt like there was bs going on here. The amount of contradictions in the research with even the researchers admitting on their blog that they didn't even know how to properly scale the world of Dragon Ball Heroes made me throw everything into question on the research itself. I think what the examples i brought up boil down to is that while not everything in researching is gonna be perfect there's a level of consistency that people expect to see when it comes to their research. It's why i fear the day when they make Goku vs Superman 3. We know it's gonna happen but the day it happens i dread it cause of what happened with how they fucked up Goku vs Superman 2 so badly. Will they have improved or will the third charm be the worst of the trilogy? Who knows but until then I'm airing on the side of caution for it.
I also thought the disparity between Archie Silver and Archie Sonic was EXTREMELY odd. They give the entire Archie world insane feats in the Silver episode that are contradicted in Sonic's episode. I don't necessarily care which one is wrong but one of them is obviously wrong.
calling out people for you having bias having more bias is showing even more bias. technically by your logic and why people didn't care about other episodes....its the camels back thing. people DID care before but it was not many. it became more over time and ben 10 was the breaking point. the peak so to speak. it may still have detractors now but after ben 10 following super man v goku people just didn't care that much anymore.
if the failsafe pulse has a cooldown how didn’t the failsafe change him to a alien like you said diamond head it literally spammed change ben when he was stopping the universe from getting destroyed again
a particular point they bought that didnt sit well with me was the "celestial sapiens can fail and have been defeated in the past" while true, they 1- say it showing a clip of a celestial sapien being defeated by ANOTHER celestial sapien, this felt like they saying that a regular person can beat a MMA fighter because he lost to another MMA fighter 2 - the whole creating a universe thing felt more like he created because he was to late to save it, not because he couldnt (heck ben straight up says it)
@@l0sts0ul89 the issue was in how they presented said argument, like he said during the vídeo. They said in a way that felt like they mean Ben is not that strong rather than showing that Hal is stronger then we are giving him credit to, something that they have been improving with later episodes
Actually they could still save it serna and bellicus just didn't want to Ben was dissteesd and ask them to fix it and they did he didn't say how so bellicus as the voice of arggesion and rage took some liberty eut It
If they had a better explanation, i wouldn't have been as against Ben losing, but when Alien-x doesn't react to the time travel....but is alien x?, is that they take limitations that 10 year old ben has. Like you mentioned (and if i recall, Kuro mentioned), why didn't the omnitrix just turn him into diamondhead to stop the scisssors?, or goop. Or chromastone (whos been destroyed and brought back as diamondhead). He's 'died' in human form, and in alien form, and just come back as a different alien (example being made into another alien to stop the death, feedback/almost all his aliens to stop a big bang). I'm glad that the fandom got this big boom from the death battle. And after seeing some videos and looking further into Hal jordan i can see how he'd be able to beat ben. I think what kuro meant by bias, not being as preference for the winner paticularly, but preference over defending and re-explaining hals' feats, as opposed to explaining where they went wrong with ben, but how Hal still defeats him. As mentioned, they still use limitations from 10 year old ben, (which would be the equivalant of nerfing Hal to be the 'green energy man' that newer animated media shows him to be, as oppose to the power he actually has.) If they had taken time to explain where they went wrong with ben, and then explain how Hal would still beat ben, as opposed to just defending Hal. Then i'm sure Kuro would not have mentioned bias. (Although for sure other saltier fans would.) If they fight had gone on longer. Like your example of ben being transformed into diamondhead, alien x travelling back in time. A brawl between the 2 hals and the 2 bens. Resulting in past ben being destroyed (perhaps by some form of megaphone construct), and then the 2 full-power non-clon Hal's overwhelming Alien-x (who would still be around due to being alien x, not feeling the affects of a paradox) Overwhelming ben as alien x, causing him to attempt to transform into another alien. Causing the paradox to consume him. Which would show Hal as the winner and the more responsible and experienced he is when it comes to time travel and multiverses, whereas Ben merely stepped upon it in Omniverse. Overall, the biggest issues arose due to how they appeared to nerf Ben for the deathbattle, regardless of if he still would have lost, he should have lost in the way he did.
And i can understand why Kuro would mention not wanting DB to touch Ben if they weren't going to do him justice. As great as the exposure was, it also exposed an incomplete misunderstanding of the character to the larger DB crowd. Although i disagree, as the ben we got would be better then no ben in DB.
Something I've always wondered about that death battlle: What about Ben's ability to use the omnitrix to modify the DNA of an entire race on voice command? Couldn't he use that to turn Green latern into a bug? Just like Dr. Animo did with a single piece of the omnitrix in one of the episodes of the original series.
when is it said to have the ability to modify an entire species at will? didn't animo have to build an entire machine to amplify it and acheive that specific power? hal's specifically genetic tampering by cosmic god weapons before and can actually do the same thing, i'm just curious about the omnitrix power.
@@danielwilson8604 Ben literally used voice command to modify the DNA of the entire Highbreed race in the finale of alien force. And has accidentally modified Kevin and Gwen, his own parents in the movies, Rook, many plumber trainees, villains and even Azmuth himself. And future Ben can even fuse alien species. Keep in mind that Dr. Animo managed to use this ability of the Omnitrix to modify DNA just by having one single piece of the omnitrix to work with. Now imagine the power that Ben has to modify DNA of others in an instant with the entire Omnitrix at his disposal.
@@giboit. fair enough, it still likely wouldn't do much in this situation, and completey drained the battery when we saw it, but you are completely right that it can alter an entire species. i wouldn't call the fusion thing the same though, it's just editing the archetypes the omnitrix uses to transform ben.
@@danielwilson8604 It only runs out the battery when it's used on universal scale, like in the case of the Highbreeds. It can totally modify the DNA of single individual as if it was nothing without issues. And I think the fusion feature is relevant because it massively increases Ben's potential in battle.
@@giboit. wfair enuogh, it still wouldn't actually do anything to someone who can resist genetic modification or alteration to his personal reality. and the fusion feature would be an interesing addition, but wouldn't change much. hal has pretty much all of ben's powers, but can use more at once, even with the fusion feature, without sacrificing any power to do so. would have been cool to see though.
I took it personal when you sarted calling everybody out for their un - civil responses. Everyody has the inalienable right to do/say whatever they want (wether it's legal is another discussion) even if it is idiotic. As for the video, yeah "I can bull*hit my way trough anything with willpower" sums it up.. Don't care enough to investigate any further than the DB episode. Truth be told I just don't like Hal and in my unknowledgeable opinion will power wouldn't overpower a god but alas, I was wrong. Already spent too much time writing the comment for something I honestly shouldn't care about. But still you deserve credit for the good work. Nice vid, left a like
@@justinalicea1590 True but they use Ben’s feats from the newer series (or when he was older) but use kid ben and his omnitrix. It made me feel like they choose characters out of random.
@@justinalicea1590 yea I realized that after making my comment but i still think it feel like the match up was still out of random and the reasoning for choosing these characters to fight was because they green. But thats just my opinion because just by looking at the thumbnail I can tell that Ben would’ve lost. They could’ve been better match ups between these characters like ben 10 vs beast boy would’ve made more sense. Also they had more sensible match between characters during that time like thanos vs darksaeid
@@justinalicea1590 literally every alien in that episode except Alien X was from the Prototype Omnitrix. They didn't have sprites for aliens like Way Big so why couldn't they just have him use another alien in the same matter, especially since Ben has the master control in this battle?
I like how you point out that the Sonic fanbase is "that kind of fanbase", when it's easily one of the most lowballed series on the show. Numerous multiverse-level feats, consistent "the Chaos Emerald are infinite" statements, and they still most recently put a single Chaos Emerald at continental. Just for that jab for absolutely no reason, this video is getting a dislike.
@@omegaaklx303 But you're just wrong. They don't reach that level through scaling alone. They are specifically stated many times by many reputable sources (from Tails to Eggman to Professor Pickle) to contain infinite power. It'd be like saying Mario doesn't beat Bowser, or that Superman doesn't get stronger in the sun.
as someone who is more biased towards ben 10 here is my reasoning for why some fans like me are upset. the thing is that ben lost in a way that has already failsafe against it. while the omnitrix's failsafe are ambiguous we know that omnitrix transforms his user into an alien whenever it detects a life threatening scenario which it has done quite a few times. ben literally survived the big bang because the omnitrix's failsafe kicked in. next is that the DC comics may not be the mainstream source of information about dc characters for many fans thus most of hal's ability seemed like a one time feat or perhaps one that was scrapped in post crisis or new 52 or any other reset similar to how superman can lift infinity in one of these and cannot in another. your video has shown that these are feats that can be done quite often. another is that ben has so many aliens that are much more powerful than four arms or heatblast and nearly none of them make an appearance. next is that while hal may be superior to alien X they do not understand alien x at all. Alien X can destroy, create and alter reality at a whim. there was a whole storyline in which aggregor wanted to absorb a baby alien x and that if he did so he could become the ruler of the entire universe and no one could stop him. The only way the could've refuted alien x being much weaker was to simply state that only ben was influencing alien x and had no support of the dual personalities within all alien x which need to agree to do any action. however in the episode universe vs tennyson ben gets the "keys" to alien X. in that episode it is also heavily implied that alien x is also immune to memory changes as everone except ben and other alien x even know that the universe was destroyed. i may not have got my exact point across but these are the few gripes that bother me a lot and while i don't mind ben loosing i feal that it more felt like he was curbstomped instead of actually losing. people tend to forget that DC has been around for 80 years and that the feats characters of that universe has displayed could probably solo several anime. As a casual watcher i feel that the research was not extensive on both universes because there are feats that both characters have done that are not acknowledged or not justified properly.
@@Squeam9750 then at least they should've quoted it because I and many fans are very unaware of Hal's feats. even the justice league animate show has shown john stewart instead of hal and there are times when hal's ring is either charged by multiple rings or maybe oa itself. not to mention both lores can get complicated which is often forgotten or misunderstood due to many factors for example ben 10 has several scenes where the problem could've been solved in a minute but because of some nuances it takes a whole entire episode. or the comedy overshadows some feats.
At the end there you were kinda misunderstanding the issue People like seeing there character win if he wins and it doesn't make sense that doesn't really matter to alot of people because they still won And if a character like Ben 10 is much more popular than your other examples of bad verdicts
I'm going to say this:i agree completely with you Now my opinion on the episode im fact: .... I think it was mid (mediocre, a 5/10, gosh people completely changed the meaning of mid huh) but it was because of huge expectations, i am a huge fan of ben ten, and green lantern is probably my favorite... Mythos? Inside the DC universe, and to top all that, i even thought about this Matchup way before discovering Death Battle, so my stakes for it was pretty high, then i watched the episode and... I was so disappointed, the first half was good but when Alien X appears..., Anyway you said everything i would like to say Again, i agree with everything you said, thank you.
I will admit i am completely biased and dislike how ben lost But the reason i wont change my opinion is because ive yet to meet a person who properly convinces me. I've gone back and forth with people in comment sections arguing that the U-Bomb is some multiversal erasing bomb and dont explain what it is. Why is it called a U bomb? Would the U stand for universe? Like you cant just say "Oh it is" and I've probably been guilty of that but thats because most of the arguments have self explanatory evidence. Another thing is people arguing ben only has hacks with his other aliens with my experience of that being people saying "Oh clockwork used HACKS to reverse a bomb that was destroying every single other timeline" but.. that isnt how his powers work he has the power to slow down time and uses as much energy as he can to reverse it. You cant just claim something is hacks you have to have evidence. Unfortunately i dont have much evidence to counter it but that means you should have a better time debunking me since i can't pull anything out my ass Best argument i heard is "Hal beat someone stronger than alien x" would love some evidence but it was just an offhand joke so cant expect much though it gives some kind of explanation instead of "NO YOU'RE WRONG YOUR SHOW DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT BUT MINE DOES"
It's called the U-Bomb because it's called the U-Bomb, it's full name didn't matter only what it was capable of. Anyway Hal beat an Evil Guardian named Krona, who has nearly all of the emotional entities. One entity basically makes you a God, having 6 of them makes you go behind that. Hal killed him anyway
The problem with the episode is that they nerfed Ben if they were composite versions then Ben should know how to use the Omnitrix perfectly understand all his aliens and there are characters weaker than alien x who were able to recreate an infinite multiverse they intentionally nerfed Ben while buffing Hal
They state no outside power-ups outside of their base equipment. A solid number of the feats they used for Hal had him doing it either not alone or with a power-up They say he helped pull the earth, but when Superman's doing part of the job, he's doing ALL of the job. You're there for moral support
@@sev1120 I made this comment to get Hal fans angry but my actual problem is that while they used a canon version of Han they just slapped master control and alien x on an inexperienced ten year old Ben with an Omnitrix that doesn't have failsafes outside of the one that protects the watch it's like giving a young Hal with three months of experience a broken power ring that can do powerful things only when the plot needs it it should have been either one of the adult bens or Ben from omniverse in omniverse he is the strongest we've ever seen him and the celestial sapiens affect the entire infinite multiverse not just one they didn't change the artstyle and voices in the prime universe they did it in every single universe so they are able to do something that affects infinity yes Hal probably still wins I'm a DC fan and I liked Hal a lot when I was younger but I don't know about many of his versions especially not from comics I don't care about who won I care about the fact that they intentionally didn't make the fight fair
@@chideraumejiaku3895 didn't Kylo reiner or whatever the guy who found his dead gf in the fridge struggle to do a planetary fear while having the power of all the green lanterns?(I heard it a few years ago in a video explaining why he seems weaker after a surtain point so I'm just curious if I remember right)
@@Geoemophobic I agree with you, though I personally think that Ben could eke out a win 2% more than Hal. Either way, it's gonna be close, but if it was any other Lantern I'd easily give it to the GL rep, due to how each human GL has different strengths (Hal's wellspring of will, Jon's significantly stronger, near unbreakable constructs, Guy's sheer force behind his blasts and constructs, and Jessica's skill in fighting even whilst ringless) That's just my opinion however
I recently found an interesting comment while perusing through the comments of Ink Tank's response to the Death Battle. Apparently it is all just his opinion and nothing more than what the audience expected of him. Which is certainly an interesting claim he's making, given that the purpose and expectation of his response videos was for him to "prove that Death Battle is dumb and wrong."
37:38 Yes I have had this feeling Wanda vs Zatanna was the most recent example. Over time I the episode grew on me. It a fun episode. There are episodes I don’t agree with but I don’t want to rant about.
I'm glad someone is finally mentioning the idea that the debunks can be wrong. Seriously, if people are gonna scream "BIAS" towards DB then look at the Ben 10 guy and just take his word for it, then maybe they should re-evaluate what the word "bias" actually means.
i can't lie, when you talked about the Ring and it allegedly having better failsafes than the Omnitrix the first thing i thought of was the panels shown at minute 25:33. even if it does have failsafes, and even if they're better than the Omnitrix, they seemingly don't work against Nigh-Omnipotent beings. if Dr. Manhattan can get past the failsafes of a Ring, so can Alien X.
@@strider_hiryu850 No they aren't, when has Alien X one shot a chick who can kill multiversal beings? Who has Alien X scared a guy who can think awAy the universe and makes New God's look like a joke?
*Please read before commenting*
I've been getting a lot of great and insightful comments, so to everyone being civil, props to you. That said, I made a follow-up video addressing a few of the criticisms because this video really needed more time in the oven:
ruclips.net/video/lVhHddtPY_A/видео.html
Now I'll address a few smaller things I've been seeing:
"You were way too aggressive towards Kuro"
You're right. Even though I said multiple times that I respect Kuro and have no beef with him, my tone was actively saying the opposite. I won't excuse it. I will take the L.
"Isn't Goku vs Superman more hated?"
You could argue that its impact is bigger since it literally spawned the existence of Death Battle debunk videos, and they even have more dislikes (even if it's by virtue of having way more views), but in terms of like-dislike ratios, Ben vs GL's is technically worse, currently having a 56% ratio as opposed to the other episodes having at least 90k more likes when compared to their dislikes. Ultimately, it's up to you, but I can definitely see that. I'll accept buying into clickbait, though, as I did want that snazzy title.
"Hal going back in time to kill Ben is such a low blow, especially since it was Kid Ben when it should've been Teen Ben"
Again, I'm right there with you. However, the reason why I didn't address it is that they didn't want to have a third "explosion death" in a row and wanted to go with something more creative for once, so I chose to base my criticisms around that and what it should've looked like. Then again, an explosion death probably should've been used regardless, but whatever. As for Teen Ben, refer to what I said about the available sprites.
Now for a couple of other points:
1. I agree that the ending with Hal going back in time would not actually work. The only reason I didn't mention it in the video is because I forgot to bring it up. My b. I've also gotten comments from people saying that it's a low blow. That's also something I can agree with.
2. Just in case I need to mention this, too, I have nothing against Death Battle debunks. When I say "it's unfair to criticize the episode for outside factors", that's only in the context of reviewing the full episode. Debunks are meant to tackle the research and arguments that Death Battle is using and doesn't take any other aspect of the episode into account (unless if they mention how the animation contradicts a point they made in the conclusion), so on that front, it's fair to use outside factors. I feel like I should've made a distinction between reviewing an episode and debunking it, and I didn't think about it until the last minute, but I had no time to work it in the video somewhere.
Anyways, links that I mentioned earlier. Check these out to get a better understanding of the matchup:
Ben vs Hal G1 prediction blog: g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2019/05/death-battle-predictions-ben-10-vs.html
Ben vs Hal analysis by Spider Pidge: www.deviantart.com/spider-pidge/journal/Ben-Tennyson-VS-Hal-Jordan-A-Redundant-Analysis-813386057
Kuro's Alien X video: ruclips.net/video/_88RUVr9WaM/видео.html
Other links:
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Q&A: ruclips.net/video/SQujpsgd428/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
How Ben Wins Without Alien X by Kuro: ruclips.net/video/i3meGRifraM/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
Kuro's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern analysis: ruclips.net/video/f-jkS1zu5Cg/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
Ben vs Hal Q&A Response by Kuro: ruclips.net/video/nCN6fZZQ-cc/видео.html&pp=ygUXYmVuIDEwIHZzIGdyZWVuIGxhbnRlcm4%3D
Nemesis Bloodryche's Ben 10 vs Green Lantern Review: ruclips.net/video/1ppVbqezvSY/видео.html
I read all of the information on 28:44 and it all seems agreeable since I have seen all of the seasons debunked videos. (also to forgot to sub after seeing all of the death battle debunked's my bad. putting this in my comment to tell you that I have subbed to you.)
DanCo did a video for B10 vs GL too, you can add him as well.
if i may? the time travel thing mostly likely WOULD work based on in series ben 10 rules. two of his villains have used it against him (one in the show, and one in the comics) and even with clockwork's powers, ben couldn't tell the difference between someone being vaporised and someone being sent back in time. in a less lethal capacity, ben's altered his own present at least twice onscreen.
I have a question about the bit where you showed the reddit post about Morganna. Did you actually pay to have that video advertised, or did someone edit that image to slander you?
Also I think Ink Tank thought Four Arms broke Hal's shield because of the overlap with the shield and the broken windows behind him.
Not only did Ben lose, he died in the exact 1 way that would be IMPOSSIBLE to use against him. Alien X can follow Time Waves from Time travel, similar to how Flash can follow Time Travelers, and Hal using a giant pair of scissors was something Vilgax tried EXACTLY and the Omnitrix prevents SPECIFICALLY.
The omnitrix only prevents instant death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not limb amputation.
@@Vindication1134The series doesn't give a definitive answer on what doesn't constitute a threat to Ben, besides obviously things that have zero chance of killing him. However, the Omnitrix often acts in a way that seems like it has intent, and understands the current intent of outside forces (in writing terms it's a limited but powerful form of plot armor); which is why Vilgax was using a specific machine to remove the watch without actually providing a deadly threat to Ben the moment it would have been removed, and only planned on harming Ben after. Therefore Green lantern could have been amputated, but he also would need to intend to stop the bleeding.
So I do think there's ways green lantern could have won and honestly I can't even be bothered to be mad at who wins in the end. What did bother me was that it was obviously clear that both parties definitely did not fight to the full extent of their abilities, and the fight ended with a cheap shot that was easily preventable by Ben. Be it that the either Alien X followed Hal, or that the Omnitrix; sensing Ben's distress at something about to cut off his arm, assumes deadly force is about to be inflicted and turns Ben into an Alien that can either be alright without an arm; like Swampfire, or is too durable to cut. I can accept that they were limited by time and resources when it came to actually showing what a full on fight between the two would look like, but don't make the ending something that can be disproved by two minutes of research.
@@Vindication1134how is cutting off the part of the arm the watch is on not removal
Simply reading Alien X's wiki powers explain why everyone hated the ending.
"Alien X can survive a timeline destruction" meaning even if he killed young Ben. The future Ben as Alien X would still exist.
Also Alien X can technically time travel himself, it's basically god mode in sandbox on drugs, hard drugs. Surviving the destruction of a universe and creating one itself.
So Lantern time traveling could also be applied to Alien X following him or simple reversing back to before he told him etc.
Time travel is a bag of worms you shouldn't use when it applies to both parties. Cause it's a dumb and very contrived.
@@Vindication1134That would be true, except for the fact that this literally happened to Ben in the show. Instead of his hand simply being chopped off, Ben got teleported to what I believe is the null void while his hand was walking around on Earth.
In the end, I think it was more the inconsistent and lacking research that annoyed people rather than just the verdict.
You can't dislike a death battle without everybody just assuming it's because the character you like lost
Eh a lot of casual vs-debater and many reaction channels ONLY care about the verdict and complain afterwards if their character lost.
Also in that rant they love bringing up the prejudices:
"Death Battle hates anime", "DB is biased against dbz" and so on.
@@heyguysxd Yeah that's just fucking Immature, Goku isn't beating somebody who can teleport with mere movement, Goku loses to Superman
I say both equally
....goku can do that too..
My biggest gripes with this battle are the death and the fact that they just made Alien X look like another flying brick.
For the most powerful alien in the Omnitrix they made him look weak. Alien X is supposed to have supreme power over the entire universe, And they make him have the Shadow clone jutsu and punching. He could have beaten that fight in a second.
the only reason alien X was boxing in the series is it is bec he was fighting another clestial sapien, him doing it in the death battle is clearly a point they made that green lantern is atleast has the stats to nulify every haxx alien x got, no ?@@ImADeity
Ok, go back and watch Ben 10 Omniverse he literally has as a flying brick because Ben is pretty dumb.
The coolest thing he's done is:
Universal Creation
Black Hole
Some Lame Telekinesis
Minor Time Manipulation
@@l0sts0ul89 ben dumb? wow you say go back to the series but don't even know the first about ben. literally one of the most battle hardened characters. literally all good hax and more what you mean?
@@faith4657
With his godly power, instead of ya know fixing the Plumbers Kids and removing their powers or something what does he do? Make them fight like Legos, all he did was punch while in Alien X.
Also "one of the most battle hardened characters" is giving Ben too much credit, he's not.
I genuinely think the only reason this episode is hated so much, is just because of the scissors, the scissors completely contradict what they said in the analysis about the Omnitrix catching the Big Bang, that literally feels like it, it’s just the scissors being so damn slow
Definitely.
For me it was both that and the fact that ben lost. Not to mention they took 10 year old ben with a prototype omnitrix instead of his prime
@@Yes_nuggetUsing 10yo Ben was a stupid idea even if it was just for looks and DB's research and scaling of a character is almost always pathetically wrong but the winner was right. Ben 10 isn't even scratching Hal. One is arguably high outerversal if not higher, the other is hyberversal if you're being extremely generous.
@@liamdealmeida9914 I disagree, ben should have won. I can think of two aliens that can beat Hal, alien x (obviously) and clock work. Alien x can do literally anything, Hal isn't winning against that. And clockwork could could simply stop time and then fire a time beam that will age his body rapidly, killing him instantly.
@@Yes_nugget While both are powerful, they just can't compete with someone on Hal Jordan's level.
Most of Alien X's abilities won't work on Hal, GL has been shown to resist similar abilities from much more powerful characters, whether it's Pre/Post-Crisis, New52 or Rebirth Hal. Alien X being able to "do literally anything", means what? He has matter and time manipulation, erasure, mind control and transmutation, maybe reality warping (GL has most of these too)? These abilities are fairly common and usually (except for time manip), scale to the user, meaning they more often than not, won't work on someone massively more powerful eg. Giorno (JoJo's) or Gilgamesh (Fate) would have better luck (aka causality manipulation) than Lucky Girl (Gwen) or King (OPM), to the point where they can dictate what happens opposed to it just being luck to them. A better example is how mind control from someone like Puppet Master didn't work on Hulk but it worked much better from Xemnu or Thanos.
Stopping time means absolutely nothing because GL has immeasurable speed, so he can travel through time with raw speed alone, I'm pretty sure he even has irrelevant speed though, but you only need inaccessible speed to move during stopped time. I don't recall Hal having age manipulation resistance, but he can also age things, someone aged a tree to a stump with a replica of his ring and he once aged himself into being an old man and casually managed to de-age himself back to normal. I'd imagine he does have resistance to it, seeing that other lanterns haven't used this ability on each other, he just allowed it to happen to himself. Even if he didn't, he is just infinitely more powerful and faster so it doesn't matter. Ben is a statue in comparison, so Hal speed blitzes and one-shots/erases him before he can even use the move. If it does hit him, he just reverses the effects.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with all this power scaling jargon, which is understandable, you're not expected to as long as you're respectful. If you need me to elaborate on stuff, I'll do my best to explain. I can understand why people would believe Ben wins but he just hasn't done much that Hal hasn't dealt with or anything that can put him anywhere near most JL members in power. To put the power gap into perspective, Alien X is probably at low complex multiversal, so 4D to 6D, each dimension is more than infinitely above the previous one. Hyperversal starts at 12D and can go on to infinite dimensional, so ♾D. You can then go above this by being outerversal, above the concept of dimensions as a whole and there are still levels to this. While Hal isn't an outerversal being in nature, he has outerversal attack potency (power) and durability meaning he can destroy outerversal structures. If you want any proof of Hal being at this level I'll find some examples and use some chain-scaling.
My issue isnt necesserely that Ben lost. Its HOW he lost. Ben deserves a proper defeat, not some bullcrap that would never have worked. Give us a proper Alien X VS Hell Battle where at the end Hell manages too destroy the Omnitrix, not simply cut it off Bens arm wich WOULDNT WORK.
I felt the same way. Like the basics I know about Hal i can believe it could possibly win, but how they showed it just didn't make any sense at all
Yeah it was such a weak conclusion, you end the whole figth by basically preventing the fight from happening in the first place and attacking from behind at a vulnerable moment, doesn't it take away the point of doing a battle to see who is stronger in the first place? I mean, in that case what stops Ben from doing the same? Just time travel back in time to a point where Hal's ring is with 0 charge or he isn't wearing it and kill him when he dosen't see him comming, where's the fun in that?
@@silverbreaker9271 Exactly. Ore go back when Hel tried too recharge his ring during there battle and destroy the Lantern.
Expect cutting off his arm literally would work, it literally happens,
@@l0sts0ul89 But that wasnt with some regular scissors but with a hyper advanced weapon that send Ben too another dimension but kept his hand in the regular dimension, but they where still connectet. When the Omnitrix transformd, Ben transformed as well, when the hand moved and jumped arund, Ben was pulled along. That was a entirley diffrent scenario.
I think the reasons Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is so hated is because
1. Green Lantern is not known to time travel to the mainstream so watching him time travel will make tons of people confused
2. Traveling back in time to kill your opponent at an vulnerable state is the most Disrespectful and cheap way to kill someone so it would make a lot of people Ben 10 fans upset
3; hal kills a child
4) Ben has that power too. He literally could have followed Hal and showed up before him.
2 especially because it makes no sense that why Ben can't simply do that
ya they made ben stand there like an idiot
Ben could also travel in time and his watch does not let its wearer die, the moment his arm is cut off automatically it should transform him into an alien that can regenerate it
One thing I'd like to add is how stupid the time travel part of the animation was.
"I control time"
"Time, huh?"
*Uses time to kill him*
Imagine that with any other character.
Aquaman: "I command the oceans"
"Oceans, huh?*
*Throws water balloon that kills Aquaman*
OR
Batman: "I fight for my parents"
"Parents, huh? Martha."
*Batman falls over crying*
Naturally that's going to piss some people off.
There are just so many plot holes with this. First of all, the Omnitrix will instantly activate its failsafes against it’s removal and death of it’s owner, so what makes Death Battle think Hal could bypass this? Also, Present Ben as Alien X would chase after Hal after he time traveled to the past via Sotobro Effect and stop him from killing Past Ben (which is impossible because of anti-death failsafes.) Even if somehow Hal did kill Past Ben, it’s still pointless as Present Ben would still be alive and kicking as Alien X because Celestialsapiens aren’t affected by time and space at all. And according to Paradox in Omniverse, every time you travel to the past you only create a branch of new timelines, therefore leaving the original timelines unchanged. You see there are just so many plot holes and it would so much more for Ben to simply negate Hal’s ring, blink him out instantly and be done with it.
"I can fly"
"Fly, huh?"
*Goku flies all over Superman*
As someone who had been watching kuro since his first video, based on some stuff he has said in the past, I believe that the reason he said he'd rather than death battle "never touched the character" is less so because of any of his feelings and more because it forced him to make those 3 videos. In a lot of videos he has said that he actually doesn't really know or care that much about powerscaling and mainly just wanted to give ben 10 some respect that he felt he lacked (which is something I appreciated back when I discovered his channel too because I also felt like I couldn't comfortably talk about this show I've loved for half my childhood up until kuro's efforts). The bad part of kuro becoming the accidental ambassador of the ben 10 community is that he ended up feeling forced to address and respond to any issue the fandom had even if it was something he didn't necessarily wanted to do, the death battle videos being one of those, I believe he initially didn't even want to make any videos on it or more than 1 video on it so by the end of the third he felt that the harm the episode caused to him by indirectly making him make videos he didn't really want to outweighed the parts he liked and just wished it hadn't happened so that he wouldn't have made those videos.
the progression about that thing is so clear on his side too. he was just tired of it
I'd get tired of that crap too. I feel bad for Kuro.
Tbf, he never *had* to make those videos. At the end of the day he was the one who wrote the script, recorded the dialogue, edited the video, and then uploaded it. It definitely does suck to hear, but he could've very well just ignored it. You can't really blame death battle for that
@@afro025 that is why even that certain event was still not over, he stopped responding. Ofcourse it's partly his fault upon shouldering the voices of the community.
@@afro025 yeah I definitely wasn't implying it was all the fault of either party. I just wanted to shed some light on why he said that he wished they never touched the character. Shortly after those videos he actually had announced that he was going to stop making videos and give control of the channel to his 2 occasional co-hosts, even did a big "history of ben 10 animated" event that was supposed to be his "epic finale" but even then he returned to making videos some time later and has seemed to be happier ever since. I believe that in that period of time where he wasn't making videos he probably realized that being the go-to content creator for ben 10 didn't make him automatically accountable for any random community drama he may or may not want to invest time into.
The weirdest part of the battle aside from Alien X throwing hands, is that Green Lantern just 1-shots all of the clones somehow
Yeah it didn't make sense
@@vorrdegard2176and also Alien X disintegrating Hal like thanos doesn’t make sense. As Kevin said “They(celestialsapiens) could just blink and we’d be gone”
@@SuperDestroyerFox Because existence erasure of that level doesn't work on hal
@@raiden7554 why would it thanos him then
Those Alien X clones aren't like Shadow Clones, they're all just as capable of anything as the original. Ben could simply overwhelm Hal with infinite clones until the ring's charge is gone and finish him off.
I'm not mad about that Ben lost. I just didn't like how they portrayed him. He had an older voice with aliens from the newer omnitrix. At that point just use teenage Ben lol
The only alien outside the original 10 that he used was Alien X
@@sev1120 nope. Waybig
@@smartpatrick8690 Way Big is part of the original series. I should've said that instead
I heard that the reason why they used young Ben 10 was because he was more popular than the older version but I might be wrong as this was 4 years ago when I heard this
@@roobyrne3075Kid Ben was mainly used because the team didn’t have access to Teen Ben sprites and ultimately them using Kid never had an effect on the outcome
I liked the part where Hal said “Time huh? Thanks for the tip” and then proceeded to go to a restraint and tip all the waiters. Truly one of the death battles of all time
Based Hal for doing that!
And that's how Costal City was saved.....which turned out to be the catalyst for the Emerald Paradox(okay not really)...but that would be so hilarious.
Truly a wonderful hero, I hope he doesn’t murder a child😌
In a positif way or in a negatif way? You need to put an adjectif in your sentence so people can understand what you mean!
@@SuperPlacido1 but they don't really though
Cool to see folks still talking about this!
yo thats cool
So true.
Like Death and Taxes its Eternal
Are you not gonna respond to the criticisms towards you? Nothing you said proved Ben was faster, etc. Hal still outstats Alien X
@@Bleeperblopper497what do you mean how does the stuff he said doesn't prove it?
The entire Ben 10 vs GL debacle was an undeniable mess. The episode itself is average at best with some considerable flaws that caused the backlash that it did.
For starters, the overall analysis for both characters was fine. It did a pretty decent job at summarizing the characters, what they were about, and a basic rundown of their abilities.
The animation though is where the issues start rearing their ugly head. With the animation itself, I think it’s cohesive enough & the animators did a great job. The sound design was also well done. The directive choices of the fight is what I take issue with. First off, I understand why they chose to represent Ben with his kid model. It’s the most iconic & recognizable look he has. Considering his opponent though, it might’ve been better to use Teenage Ben; as you avoid the controversy of a full-grown adult offing a kid if he won.
The next issue is the choreography of the overall fight. The fight up to Alien X is good. You get to see a variety of powers from both sides, fun interactions, and some quirks from both combatants. When Alien X arrives however; we start getting interpretations of both characters that are very inaccurate to their portrayals & the fight starts becoming unbelievable. The fight ends with GL using an ability he isn’t known for having before he finishes off a kid in a way that makes 0 sense & is very disrespectful to his opponent, which is also completely out of character for Hal; Killing restrictions removed from their personality or not.
The final 2 nails in the coffin comes from the closing analysis. For starters, the closing remarks were super vague about how GL managed to secure a win, and it left me as well as the audience unsatisfied with the conclusion. What’s worse, the actual good arguments for why GL could feasibly win was left to be answered in a Q&A segment, because Deathbattle couldn’t be bothered to do a lengthy explanation for why they chose a winner overall. Leaving your strongest arguments out of an episode is just a bad judgment call.
All that said, I’m actually glad this episode got as much flack as it did. It was a needed wakeup call for the team. Since this episode, I feel the team takes the debate aspect as well as showing off characters in a more accurate light (in most cases). They’ve certainly gotten better, and in matchups that are far messier to decide a winner, (Take DIO vs Alucard for instance), they take their time and address every possibility for why they went with their winner & made sure all the possible bases are covered. I honestly believe Deathbattle would not be as polished as it is today if episodes like Ben vs GL didn’t kick them in the pants & the team didn’t take valid criticism to heart.
If you read through this long winded post, I honestly thank and applaud you for doing so.
I love the idea of this episode being something of a wakeup call. That's probably the perfect way to describe it ngl.
Nah, the "wakeup call" the Ben 10 fanbase wanted was for them to believe that "Lel aLiEn X sOlos" and "bUt mUh fAiLsAfE". The Ben 10 fanbase was stuck in their delusion of Alien X being some omnipotent god who solos fiction, and they were upset that Death Battle didn't think the same. I've legit seen people think Alien X is on par with TOAA and The Presence.
I will agree about the fight
The sprite in the fight was off.
Them having a wake up call is why I think Wally vs Archie did better than Ben vs Hal, both episodes involved the DC character beating a character mostly known for being unbeatable to a fan base that can’t/won’t accept otherwise, but Wally vs Archie didn’t end up as controversial because, like you said, they addressed every reason why Wally wins in great detail, so your assessment is extremely accurate
@@mrmisterman2874you sure? Because I've seen a lot of people that kept on saying Archie Sonic should have won and that Archie Sonic beats Wally in basically every aspect.
My take:
1.Presentation:
Even though Death Battle goes with the peak version of a character or sometimes a composite version for some reason they decided to use young Ben as their representative instead of Omniverse Ben. This also follows into the aliens they use since a majority of them use Classic Ben designs instead of a custom or Omniverse which makes it very confusing for those who arent aware than Ben is 17 years old canonically at the end of the origonal series.
2. The line up of aliens:
Way Big and Alien X made sense. Four Arms as a starter to grasp the difference in strength was fine and so was Heatblast. But we didnt get guys like Atomix, Chromastone, Upchuck or Feedback, aliens that they listed off as some of his best picks that didnt even show up to make things interesting. The fight only really got good once he went Way Big.
3. Logic:
Even if you were to say Ben was to lose to Hal the fact they completely ignored the failsafe that stops the wearer from dying was complete crap. A better option would be to make the omnitrix go into self-destruct mode then stop Ben from turning it off so that he blows himself up. And this is ignoring the worse moment of the fight where Hal just time travels and Alien X just lets it happen without a fight he doesnt follow him and fight in the time stream or just pulls a Bite za dusto. It was just stupid for the sake of an ending.
They didn't ignore the failsafe, they just didn't go into detail about it in the episode itself, which was the biggest issue.
@@comicking428 yeah I know the failsafe itself has a lot of ambiguity to it but I still felt it was a lil dumb so just ignore it like that.
If the failsafe was able to transform him fast enough to catch the big bang and shoot it like a weapon, He should have been able to dodge scissors
@@ImADeity and Hals constructs are faster then the big bang
@@l0sts0ul89 try being faster when your opponent can't die, also speed inconsistence much.
It really says something about the episode when it’s not just getting the fully scripted segment treatment but the whole entire video treatment
The big issue is the scissor thing, the failsafe protected Ben from the Big Bang and if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix from AF he had his hand severed by a portal but omnitrix reanimated his hand and stayed linked to the severed wrist keeping him from bleeding out so really the method of Ben losing was just really stupid, there are plenty of ways Hal could have won the fight but cutting his hand off was stupid
Agreed.
the hand was severed by that axe...the energy field the axe produced was what stopped ben from bleeding...the omnitrix had his hand move on its own sure but the axe teleported ben away from his hand
@@metalmario1231 yes and as I said only if they’re going by the logic of the recalibrated omnitrix, however they show the prototype which multiple times prevents it’s own removal & even flips out when Vilgax tries to cut his arm off & he begins randomly transforming for the remainder of the encounter & the final omnitrix failsafes to protect him while he’s human to enable him to survive a universe creating/destroying bomb at point blank range, so unless they’re only using one omnitrixes logic that isn’t even shown rather than the one shown or the most current then it’s kinda cherry picking ain’t it?
m
@@Dreadwing1000 That is incorrect. Grandpa Max crashed through Vilgax's ship and into Vilgax before the blade ever made contact with Ben. The resulting electrical damage began spreading through the ship, which spread into the Omnitrix and caused it to begin rapidly changing Ben. It was not the Omnitrix reacting to the blade.
And yes, the complete Omnitrix saved Ben from outright dying. After it let him die to multiversal destruction, get kidnapped and be hurt on numerous occasions. That is not a defense mechanism that would react to limb removal.
Being reminded of this death battle only further reinforces my belief that its almost always going to be obvious who the winner is based almost entirely on how old the character is and how much source material they can call upon.
like my belief is that Ben lost because they almost never went into higher threat levels that require heavier hitters like Way Big or Alien X, and kept the scope of the show mostly on Earth when the most interesting things happened off in space, Hell apparently Alien X isn't even the strongest in the Omnitrix base on Dareks comment, but it doesn't matter since we never got to hear or see anything about it.
that statement was debunked
Alien x is the strongest alien
celestial sapiens are literally the creators of everything and are stated to be the literal staff of ben 10
@gadlygamer That wad also a joke by the writers.
@@gadlygamer ...no? what? we've met the actual creators of the multiverse and it's not the celstialsapiens.
@@danielwilson8604 celestial sapiens are literally above everything
the forge of creation is above the contemelia
With the likes of DC comics being like 80 years old that sure as hell is true with the fact that every god damn dc comic is canon to one another or someshit.
I think the main problem is that nothing said in the initial video, and even afterwards, actually give Hal the win. There is no reason to believe the fail safe has a cooldown, Vilgax had the Omnitrix hand in a specialized machine when he attempted to cut it off (and it’s never shown to actually work), and making any judgments on the limitations of Alien X is foolish when aside from a few crew statements and Agregore’s plan to absorb a baby Celestialsapien we aren’t given any limits.
Also going on the omnitrix fail safe, it’s faster than the Big Bang, plus if Hal’s constructs are classified as energy then Feedback alone wins. (I don’t know a lot about the lanterns so correct me if I’m wrong) also even if Hal destroyed diamond head he’ll regenerate also the best transformation would have been goop
@@gundamandyugioh4184 Green Lantern can re-absorb energy
@@gundamandyugioh4184 they aren't actually classified as energy. at least not one that obeys any given laws of physics. he can freely transform it into any kind of energy he wants, including magic or sonic, or even something like antimatter. rookie green lanterns are vulnerbale to things like black holes bending light, but experienced lanterns are not.
he also has a number of tricks to deal with energy absorbers and can just... win tug of war matches with them. the first time he ever absorbed the central battery he did so to prevent another being from doing it, and not only absorbed it faster but took the power away from him.
it's technically the raw fuel of all reality, including dimensions like the new gods realsm and afterlife. and absorbing hal's specific energy kind of... turns you into an extension of hal, anyway. it's described as"omnijectively real" and the thing which powers the source wall
an omnitrix technician in every series claims you can cut it off, and the one time it seems to prevent his hand being cut off, the episode actually points out the weapon malfuntioned, it wasn't the omnitrix's doing. plus, you can't assume no limits on alien x since he's shown to fall short several times in the series.
to do otherwise is to just give him unlimited benefit of the doubt while ignoring hal's own experience killing immortals and omnipotent beings.
@@danielwilson8604 where in the series is that stated? Cause again it’s fail safe would prevent that. Like an Omnitrix technician? First I’m hearing of it, unless it’s from the reboot which is not canon to the Prime timeline so where is that stated. I genuinely would like to know
You have a point with Alien X though
If they had come up with a good enough reason for Ben to lose, I wouldn't have been mad about it. But no, that was not the case they just doubled down on the lack of proper research on Ben and why he should lose
the problem is that they were RIGHT about a number of the points people call poor research, or didn't dispute them enough. among other things, alien x has actually shown onscreen he cannot sense time travellers coming and doesn't exist without ben.
@@danielwilson8604except he CAN sense time travel
Celestial Sapiens can sense the sotobro effect, just like chronosapiens
@@sev1120 this is never stated, nor shown.
the sotobro effect is specifically something chronosapiens and their technology leave behind when they time travel, no other time traveller leaves such a trail.
eon and even vilgax were able to travel without paradox tracking them, and paradox himself even snuck up on alien x themself, grabbed ben, and left, forcibly detransforming them. neither serena, ben nor bellicus could sense him coming or stop him leaving.
if there is a specific statement otherwise please let me know.
@danielwilson8604 Regardless of Alien X not showing it, it doesn't mean he can't. Alien X's species exist outside all of existence and cannot be harmed by anything. They failed to fully understand Alien X and the idea that there isn't anything he can't do
@@SJMS.x0930 Claiming that someone can do "anything" is vague, unquantifiable, and ultimately, meaningless. There are plenty of characters in fiction said to be omnipotent or god or whatever. Those are just titles. What really matters is the feats they've actually shown. Speculation and assumptions are worthless. You can't just make up powers or stats for a character. That's not how debates work. It doesn't matter that Alien X is said to be able to "do anything". Yeah, so are about a dozen comic book characters, and they are still beaten by higher beings. That phrase doesn't tell me anything. The best he has ever shown is creating a universe. That simply isn't enough to beat even mid tier DC heralds.
And you literally just pulled the ultimate no limits fallacy by claiming Alien X can't be harmed by anything, Just because nothing in Ben 10 is powerful enough to harm in (which is questionable itself but that's not important right now) that doesn't mean other characters who have greater feats than him can't. It doesn't matter that he's the god tier in a verse filled with mere universal reality warpers. His feats are so pathetic compared to what Hal has pulled off. This is the same argument Saitama fans use. Battles are about feats, not how cool someone looks whenever they show up. By your logic I could also say Zeno from DBS is unbeatable because nothing in his verse is powerful enough to harm him. That's not how it works.
My favorite part of Ben 10 vs Green Lantern is that part in Goomba vs Koopa DBX where Koopa flies through the timestream leaving behind the Goomba shoe for Hal to "get an idea"
Such a top tier moment fr.
Wait that happens? Im sorry I forgot how that whole thing went so it’s kinda fuzzy in my mind
I never noticed this, but my friend pointed it out to me and I can’t unsee it. The person who wins the battle, is always whoever has the largest number of kilotons of TNT as there power feat.
It really depends on the episode, but yeah, outstating your opponent is a pretty reliable way of killing them, especially if the combatants don't have much hax at their disposal.
was i your friend?😂 i knew that for a LONG TIME
“Hal (I can bullshit my way through anything with will power) Jordan” is such a perfect way to describe the type of person Hal Jordan is lmao
can we all agree that homelander vs omniman was 100% right though?
Oh definitely, no question here
Homelander deserved worse.
yep
Small correction Alien x clones are as strong as the original
The failsafe shockwave doesn't have a cool down (idk where did they get that from)
The failsafe was fast enough to catch the BigBang(of a universe that is infinite in size) exploding in bens face I don't know how fast Hal is but is he really that fast ? would like if u tell me and ty
Overall i think hal should have won bec he has 1000 of comics so he obviously has More time to develop and shine just not like that i mean come on...
an author has claimed that ben's universe is infinite in size, but that's a shakey claim since we've seen the edge of it, and an infinite universe wouldn't have a big bang. however, if we assume that it is true, we'd have to use the same claims about dc's universe. since hal can not only scan the entire universe instantly and even fly from the center past the edge in the space of a single sentence, that'd still make him faster thanks to the smaller timeframe., especially since the universe being much older would mean it had expanded more.
@@danielwilson8604 ty maybe if they showed us in the animation that Hal moves so fast that time is slowed to Ben or if Hal said I have to be quick or something it would have been clearer since the start Bec the way they make it look like they just forgot about . My only problem with it know is what didn't Alien x follow back Hal? Alien x has two Avatars beligus and seriena who are omniscience they could have told Ben if he didn't realize or the fact that Hal literally says "time huh that's for the tip so Alien x should know his plan
@@tpabdo7857 that would indeed have been a better solution. i'm planning my own animation and hoping to do the fight justice because it's a genuinely interesting matchup to me.
@@tpabdo7857 sorry, didn't catch the edits.
but serena and bellicus have something LIKE omniscience, but we've seen time travellers sneak up on them and give them the slip before, when paradox broke into their mind-void grabbed ben and left, destransforming them. they didn't see him coming, but they were focused on him when he left. and ben's future self has confirmed that if his past changes, his future ceases to be.
between that, hal being MUCH faster and the fact that they will cease to exist without ben and the omnitrix, they were in a bad position. does that make sense?
@@danielwilson8604 yes but paradox isn't ur average time traveller and still Hal said "time huh thanks for the tip" and celestial sapiens live outside of the multiverses and outside of time it is also supported by the fact that there is one Alien x that all Bens in the multiversus have access too. So again killing him in the past won't do anything ,even by the logic of both shows I believe but that might be a bit to much to ask in my eyes if they made Alien x follow him back then time traveller Hall kills Ben since he knows how fast the failsafe, while the the other Hal holds off Alien x then they both team up and kill him with an explostion ,Thank you for listening to me and answering me logical answers so far and not just saying Hal when Bec he just does
I’m surprised that Ben didn’t beat Hal with a number 2 pencil.
That sounds like a Big Bang Theory reference, and I love it! 😆
That sounds like a spongebob reference.
Sounds like common sense considering some are yellow
Stale Joke is Stale?
@@radicaIizeddon’t forget the wood part!
As a MASSIVE Ben 10 fan, it's not so much that Ben lost as it is how he lost, the expectation for why he lost, and who he lost to.
I'm going to start by explaining how he lost. This just applies to the animation. It's very obvious why there was such a backlash. Having Hal travel back to the beginning of the fight was a cheap and anticlimactic way of winning. In addition, it goes against how time travel works in both the DC and Ben 10 universe. So regardless if either character goes back in time to kill there opponents past self this does nothing but creates a new timeline in which there original selfs are unaffected. Now it's time for the dreaded Green Scissors. The fail safe should have activated when Hal goes back in time and cuts Ben's wrist. The energy feedback that protects Ben doesn't have a cooldown, and the Omnitrix will turn Ben into an Alien who will protect/save him."But Hal's constructs move faster than..."Blah blah blah the animation didn't elude to that and that's exactly the problem. The animation has to matter. A good amount of people who watch Death Battle watch for the animation and so it needs to be a more proper representation of both characters and there abilities and it needs to be conveyed as accurately as possible.
Now, the explanation for Ben's loss. It was written poorly. I'm not going to go into detail (partly because I'm lazy and I'm writing this on my lunch break and you go into better detail than I could), but here's the bare minimum. All they had to say was Hal was faster and had more experience fighting Omnipotent entities, and they removed all of the fluff about Ben playing catch up and his aliens not being able to accomplish (insert feat here.) I could go on and on about how they didn't calculate or mention any of Ben's more powerful aliens and their feats, or what they got wrong about Alien X, or how they downplayed Ben or how I didn't like Ben's representation in the fight or how the episode at times felt like nostalgia pandering to me during Ben's anyslsis but none of that matters because of my last point.
This was a completely unequal match-up, which is why I disliked it so much.This is something that anime fans bring up when a DC/Marvel character beats an anime character on DB, and it's that DC and Marvel characters have an unfair advantage because they have multiple comics, different authors, multiple different timelines and alternative versions, and they've been around for so long. Most non-DC/Marvel characters have a single source of origin and a smaller pool of writers. In the case of Ben 10, the franchise is only 17 years old, but DC and Marvel have characters that have been around for more than 40 years. For myself and many others, rooting for our favorite to win against these characters is pointless because DC/Marvel characters are simply built different. They have a lot of power creep. I wouldn't have minded if Ben had lost against someone on his level, but he didn't. Lanturns are broken. Honestly I hate being reminded of this fight and yeah I have no problem saying this is my least favorite DB and it's not because Ben lost it's because he never stood a chance to begin with so there was no point being excited for this match up in addition to the fight being ( and I hate using this word) mid. The peak was Hal vs Heatblast imo and everything afterwards just being meh. Both characters have creative powers and both characters don't do anything interesting with them in the fight.
All around good analysis video. If you have feedback or a different opinion I'd love to talk.
may i dispute your comment?
@@danielwilson8604💀
@@samburgerwithcheeze8145 sorry, i don't understand this reply.
@@danielwilson8604 why wanna "dispute" their comment, just curious
@saucymongoose I agree with your opinion. I saw one ink tank video where Kuro talks about how ben won and how death battle got some stuff wrong about Alien X, and how Ben could use different ways to win against green lantern.
The problems don't come from Hal beats Ben. It's how. Ben's first watch has a cooldown, but his latest doesn't. By the version of Ben they use he has all the powers of a later Ben, no mater the sprite. He can't be killed like that. And thay handled Alien X really poorly, he is a solve a problem fast with powers type of fighter, not a melee one. Also the biggest issue is Ben has a lot of aliens that can absorb Hal's attacks or affect the ring. And they use none. I am with Kuro here. I wish they didn't touch Ben, because they didn't add a lot to the fandom and spred some misconseptions like what can Ben do and that the watch is harming the user by a lot of use
honestly, i'm of the opposite school here? a lot of what people claim in the debunks is flar out wrong or directly contradicted by canon, and it's lead to a lot of people claiming ben has powers he doesn't or tryting to enforce limits on green lantern he doesn't have, like claiming he cannot travel in time post crisis. no version of hal jordan lacks time travel.
it's also pushed alien x scaling to frankly absurd extremes.
If three Alien X clones are fighting in melee, the rest will be throwing suns or blasting the enemy with antimatter or doing literally anything other than JUST FLOAT THERE
@@danielwilson8604 I'm not really an expert on Green Lantern, but a lot of things that he did against Ben is literally established in Ben 10 to not be possible.
You can’t cut of Ben's hand
You can't travel back in time without Ben being able to anything against it (Sotobro effect)
Also Ben's human form can't be killed as it has a fail safe that would automatically change him to an alien able to survive said attack
Like I don't actually care about the main result, just the way it was reached as its contradictory to Ben 10's lore and rules
@@matheussandbakk9959 the problem is, Ben's human self has died onscreen, and an omnitrix technician has claimed you could cut it off in every series, including g the final. They could have explained it better, but its still supported by canon. It has defences, but they aren't absolute.
Also, professor paradox did just that against alien x himself, destransforming him by warping into their void while they couldn't sense him and teleporting away before they could do anything. The sotobro effect is only said to trace chronosapiens, after all. And even as clockwork, ben couldn't tell the difference between eon travelling in time and being vaporised.
@@danielwilson8604 Theres no such thing as the "Omnitrix technician" atleast in the main contintenty
the reboot is it's own seperate thing
that's like using teen titans go as a reason for why raven or starfire from the comics lose a fight, it's dumb
The most glaring issue is that they obviously didn't do enough research into Ben's feats, abilities, haxs, or any of his other transformations. Ben has aliens like Ghostfreak who can possess other people and since Green lantern has been taken control of before possession would work on him in this scenario. Ben also has aliens such as chromastone, nrg, feedback, ect who can absorb energy and completely nullify the effects of the ring but DB for some mysterious reason completely ignores them in the matchup.
@@justinalicea1590 your main point seems to stem off of Hal's speed yet he has never truly shown any speed feat that puts him quintillion times faster than light. The whole "he can just avoid Ghostfreak" can also be applied to Ghostfreak. And Hal wouldn't be able to "take back" his own energy from the energy absorbers because they take energy from their opponents and use them as weapons against said opponents, unless he uses a shield or something similar I don't see how Jordan would be able to deal with constantly being blasted with his own energy nonstop
@@justinalicea1590 if Green lantern fired his own attacks at the energy absorbers and they fired them back at him that would be more than powerful enough to hurt GL. The Omnitrix has reacted to things outside of time and space anyway so hal would never be able to speed blitz Ben. And even then those factors still don't have any weight when it comes to his physical strength or what he can do with the ring.
@@justinalicea1590 you are assuming that GL would only be using 1% of his power in the battle when in actuality he would need to use much more than that. The Omnitrix would transform Ben into an alien that would withstand GLs speed, this is a basic countermeasure of the Omnitrix that has been around for almost the entirety of the series. Did you even watch the show?
@@justinalicea1590 what is your evidence that green lantern is as strong as alien X?
@@justinalicea1590 Alien X was able to recreate the entire universe which means he was able to create the distance of the entire universe in less than a second. In order for this to be possible his power would have to travel the length of the universe in both directions in a near nanosecond which by itself is a massive speed feat that Alien X performed only using a fraction of his particles which by extension means that he wasn't even using his full power to pull off such a feat. With this information in mind Alien X most likely wouldn't even need to use 4% of his power to completely out speed Hal and put the power of his ring to shame. If you disagree with my points that's fine but I don't see any logical way Hal could ever possibly win
It's so funny how the Ben sprite were from a bootleg
I think it was Stan Lee (or some other big name in the comics industry) who when asked who would win a fight between two specific characters said, "Whoever the Author wants to win."
Yeah it is all up to interpatation
Please please please stop using this stupid stupid quote, THERE IS NO WRITER IN THIS CONTEXT YOU IDIOT. Me Vs You, we debate. Who's the writer? Oh right, there isn't any, this isn't a story, there is no narrative, there's nothing here that needs an author's input on how it would go.
@@debater452 I don't want to repeat myself
Ah yes the most bullshit excuse according to this logic a human being can beat god because the writer
@@death-nm7hrWell, yes. There are countless stories where a human beats a god or even The God simply because the author wants them to.
I believe the big reason Ben 10 v Green Lantern was so disliked, even if previous episodes had incorrect conclusions, is that the other episodes all _seemed_ to be good arguments. If the only things you knew were what DB showed, then most of the time one could leave an episode thinking "yeah, that makes sense".
The rematch of Mario v Sonic did NOT have this, and even seemed to ignore very good points in the original that had Sonic win, so people didn't like that remake... but hey, they aren't _that_ far apart, so it's not so blatant. That basically had boiled down to "they counter each other in everything but speed, and we all know Sonic's faster", a take that was not sufficiently overturned but still means they're close.
Here though? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in the episode apart from the official conclusion, was screaming that Ben is the winner. They did a Q+A later? Irrelevant. That's not the episode, and most people aren't even going to pay attention to it.
As for points you brought up about Ink's analysis, while the reasoning behind Hal outspeeding the failsafe seems sound, it does nothing without the opportunity, and per DB rules, he can't know enough to have that opportunity beforehand. They got around that by time travel, but the arguments for the Sotobro Effect make it pretty clear that, no, that's not an option.
I know you claimed that said effect might have been exaggerated, but that was one claim, not directed at Ink's coverage of it specifically, and gave no counter-explanation... so I have to assume Ink was right on that point.
Yeah, even if an episode has a wrong result if DB gives a sound reasoning for it then there won't be a problem. The phoenix vs raven fight despite being wrong DB gave a reasonable explaining on the analysis so for their general youtube audience who is not as in deep in comics the result makes sense. Ben vs Hal was a huge ball drop from them.
The rematch of Mario vs Sonic very much did have a good argument and the only people were upset were biased to begin with lol
The reason it's disliked is because a bunch of Zoomers who were raised with an iPad as their parents are assmad their crappy cartoon character died.
The only reason Sonic won in the original was the ignorant assumption that power-ups canceled each other out, once this was corrected the team came to the assumption that Mario would win because he could just Spam invincibility power-ups.
And that's not even going into how Sonic shouldn't have won by that episodes but Nemesis already explained that
There are three types of people who critique Death Battle.
-People who analyze the episode itself, and call out what they liked or didn't like about the animation, writing, and skits.
-"My Dad should've beaten your dad and here's why."
-"My Dad beat your dad but he should've beaten him harder."
My personal problem with the episode wasn’t Ben being beaten but instead the way Ben was beaten. Idk shit about GL so if he just beat Ben in some beam struggle or started mollywhopping him then I’d be fine with that since I can’t really argue against the strength of a character I don’t know.
BUT the way he beats Ben makes no sense with what we know about Ben10. Alien X should’ve been able to follow him, the Omnitrix should’ve reacted to bens arm being cut off, why was Ben still a child if you’re gonna have Hal fucking murder him?
I think the catch-up thing was how a fight would play out in most scenarios of this same fight, even with DB's animation having Ben leading the fight most of the time. Hal was able to handle all of Ben's forms pretty well, so it's not too hard to imagine that Hal could flip the script on Ben and Ben would be struggling if Hal took the lead in the fight. I also felt like the 'soft debunk' of Alien X was actually just them saying "Hey, just because Alien X can manipulate reality and can create and destroy a universe, it's not like his powers are that unbeatable", with the Annihilarrgh as an example of Alien X's control over reality and kind of likely other abilities not being infallible. I think this was also the first time DB made the argument that the DC universe is larger than our own, and considering what happened with Jean Grey and the 16th death and the Marvel universe being larger after Hulk vs Broly after the voice work was done... I think it's reasonable to say that something like that happened here.
Part of me feels like some of these problems are caused because of poor writing due to trying to wrap a head around all the crazy stuff these characters can do and make it into a cohesive argument and scans being cut due to time constraints.
I feel like a major reason people were dissatisfied with the results is that this episode felt disrespectful towards Ben 10 considering this episode was released around the height of Ben 10's popularity in vs discussions only for death battle to go "oh the guy who you consider to be stronger than superman? Nah, his ass can't even beat Green Lantern" without really explaining it properly. That's the thing, there are plenty of newer episodes where they took characters the internet believes to be invincible, only to have them lose, like Archie Sonic and Saitama, the difference is that those episodes had a satisfying explanation as to why those characters lost, the biggest example I can think of being in Flash vs Sonic, I fully expected Sonic to win. The difference is, the conclusion made perfect sense, so after listening to it I went "yeah, that makes sense" and gained a new appreciation for Wally West. In this they went "nah, Ben 10 isn't that powerful, he's not even universal in the absolute worst reasoning ever, and all those super OP abilities he has? Pshhhh, no big deal, they just won't work". They didn't go into full detail on valid reasons why GL would win (which I do believe) like lantern rings being the most complex technology ever, way more advanced than the omnitrix, Green Lantern's ability onto HOW he could get around the failsafes, and his experience with celestial beings beyond alien x. Basically, instead of bringing GL up, it felt like they were putting Ben 10 down, and with their incredibly faulty reasonings, it also made them look super non credible. VS debates are subjective, yes, but you still need valid reasons as to why a character won or lost. It's why, despite disagreeing with a lot of episodes like Hulk VS Broly, I can at least respect and understand where they're coming from and hold it much higher than an episode like Frieza vs Megatron or this one, which I still agree with the results, but their reasonings were so bad I view the episode in a bad light.
I do understand why the verdict does mean so much to a lot of people, and to me personally, while it's not the biggest contributing factor of enjoyment, it still is a big one, whether that be objective reasonings like reasonable conclusions, or subjective ones like my preferred character not getting their ass kicked. Obviously it's not the only thing I value, otherwise a season as great as season ten would be my least favorite season due to how often my preferred character lost this season, but at the end of the day, death battle asks a question of who would win in the fight, and in that regard, the thesis does have understandable importance, and if someone has major issues with it, then it's perfectly reasonable why they are unhappy with the whole episode. Like I said though, in the end, it's not the only thing that matters, and I wouldn't even say it's the most important thing, otherwise an episode with a terrible verdict and conclusion, but everything else being great like Frieza vs megatron would be an episode I hate more than Korra VS storm, which is my actual least favorite episode of death battle, despite the verdict being the only thing about the episode that isn't absolute fucking dogshit.
I disagree with Raven vs Phoenix's result ( I still rooted for Raven ) and I was REALLY REALLY shocked with the result and didn't find the conclusion good, then I realized wow comics are fucked and moved on
Yeah that is kind of DB's thing. Even if the result is wrong, and raven winning is wrong, is their analysis that matters and if you don't buy it well, nothing bad happens. You just disagree and that is all there is.
@@oceanoman Not really given that Phoenix controls life force, a higher version of soul manipulation, and the fact that it is capable of protecting Jean's soul which is how she revives, plus it was easily capable of burning Thor's soul so the whole point of the phoenix not being able to finish Raven off isn't true, neither are the stats since if it wasn't for Jim Corrigan who bonded with him, giving Raven the opportunity the win, white phoenix being on a similar level as something like Specter and argueably above it should tell you how outclassed Raven was in stats, and lets not talk about Unkindness vulnerability to time traveling foes.
Also the speed calc was iffy at best but none of that really matters though since what counts is what DB shows and with the analysis that they did the majority of the audience, like you, will have no issue seeing Raven winning inspite of it being a wrong result when you read the comics.
@@oceanoman If you actually read the comics you would have known that Spectre was dunking on her and throwing everything back at her, she was about to die so allow me to take your "i've read the comics mate" with a pinch of salt.
2. Raven attacked him while he was vulnerable and let the other demons do the rest. She basically only finished the job while he was already down. You sure you read the comics bro? And it is very neat that you remember all of that, but this only makes her content at the same level of the phoenix when at full power. Considering that the phoenix controls life force and that is life and death across everywhere at marvel this only means that Raven has a chance at hurting the phoenix, not beat it.
3. Even if Raven regenerates so does Phoenix, so the battle ends, at best for Raven, in a stalemate since she doesn't has the power to match being on the same level as phoenix, pretty much like Specter.
4. Even if Raven can time travel she is still vulnerable to it. Unkindness's defeat involved time travel and a being above all realities, concepts, literal writing narrative while it lives in it's own made up space like the white phoenix can easily do that and alter future events so that Raven won't have unkindness again, not like it needed to since it outclasses Raven greatly unless you give the goth chick all beneficts of the doubt and ignore all the anti feats against her while ignoring the Phoenix's abilities for convenience then yes, phoenix losses.
@@oceanoman Which doesn't make much sense, Raven still has a lot of stamina, if asmodeus was even remotelly close to Specter then Raven would have been easily handled. So no, not in the same tier. Unless we take character statements as 100% true while ignoring that this is a comic and characters can be boastful and lie.
@@oceanoman 2.Ok, so in other words Neron is not that impressive, since he is weaker than Trigon, so it was pointless to even bring him up.
3. All those characters have different and vastly power levels, you yourself admited it when saying that Neron defeated Trigon. No reason to bring these up since yeah, none of them scale to beings like the phoenix, unless you believe that Trigon is on the same tier as Spectre which is constantly showed to not be the case, as much as the writers say the two are equal Trigon never does things that suggest he is near the Spectre. Even if two characters have the same power doesn't means they are equal, for example white phoenix has better control than unkindness raven ever had over souls since it controls life force, raven only deals soul hax and that is not enough.
4. Cool, Raven doing her best can match something the phoenix does casually, existing outside of reality, and still having time travel being part of what stopped her by being below her power, so for white crown phoenix that is easy and the fire bird wins.
5. "By death metal statements" has no reason to be believable. Word of god/author can only be considered when it doesn't contradicts what happens, if it's believable and it doesn't includes something ridiculous. Asmodeus being equal ti Spectre makes no sense since Raven was totally outmatched and about to die when Spectre decided go not play around with her anymore. If she was a bit tired (she wasn't) then it shouldn't have been so one sided but it was. This means that whatever statements an author makes doesn't means it is true.
Frankly I have a very hard time believing that you actually read the comics and not some battle boarding site with scans like GameSpot, Comic Vine or VS Battle Wiki :/
I like that Kuro is pretty okay with the show now. He even showed up during Bentember in the live chats during the Ben 10 debates, and it was as if the final boss showed up
Well murdering a child ain't exactly heroic.
@@justinalicea1590: Ever heard of self-defense?
@@justinalicea1590: That’s kinda my point. He could’ve just taken the watch after cutting his arm off and brought him to a hospital but he had to be an asshole and kill him.
He wasn't a kid when you thought he was going to win.
I was one of the people that disliked the episode on release but have soften up to it. The reasoning for my hate and maybe others is because Ben represented western animation and was the 2nd Cartoon Network character to appear in a show primarily dominated by combatants from Anime, Comics, and Video games. So seeing representation from my favorite cartoon reignited a spark in me as I didn't even consider Ben 10 for a Death Battle, but him losing made me let emotion rule out reason.
I'm kinda late to this since i was just recommended this video, but i personally was a GL fan and ben 10 fan, i loved both of them growing up, and felt kinda bad from the battle, cause from what i remembered of GL growing up he was always more limited. Like every time i picked up GL, in movies, comics and shows he was shown limits way beneath what they gave him in the battle,which made me feel as though i was a fake fan and them not well explaining it made me feel kinda dumb, where as I was given a way clearer picture of ben's abilities in the series. Like I remember many comics where green lanterns hit their limits in doing way more mundane stuff than what death battle showed, like them struggling to create a city construct or hold a planet together or move the earth, them shown being mind controlled multiple times or having green lantern rings be broken or hacked, etc, and yet I never remembered them doing anything more impressive than holding back the big bang. Since The episode I have learnt way more of hal's peak abilities, and i can see where they came from. But it does show that I who read green lantern didn't buy their explainations in episode since they didn't really phrase themselves well, and left me with a confusing/incomplete picture. You basically gave me the missing piece of why i disliked the episode even though i like both characters, they were so bad at explaining it that i didn't believe the episode and didn't feel like i could come to the same conclusion with the evidence they provided.
Honestly. The episode I hate the most is Ultron vs Sigma. And that’s because of ONE LIE. They lied in Ultron rundown, giving him a critical weakness he apparently never had and just “lol noped” that weakness away in the analysis. If it was better explained I could accept it easier.
That’s usually when I have real problems with episodes. It’s when they explicitly lie, manipulate info, or explain things horribly.
(Although let’s be honest here. The most accurate episode 100% is Eggman vs Wily. No way in hell that confrontation ends any differently. That’s one of my faves.)
Actually IIRC the Roboenza in that video doesn't work like in the games (doesn't even look like that, I think) so it also was kind of inaccurate
I actually think the result of eggman vs wily is actually... I think wily winning? I mean quickman is if i'm not misremembering faster than metal sonic, there's robot masters way more crazier than all of eggman's badniks (for example coldman being able to create absolute Zero (pun intended) temperatures, and solar man to create fire hotter than the sun) he just has more fire power, and roboenza isn't really a factor to me because it is dangerous to even wily itself (as shown in megaman 10) and realistically metal sonic isn't going to transform into neo metal sonic because now that the idw comics are canon eggman likely would have removed that feature. But well, it's still pretty darn close with all the final boss machinery that eggman has that give him an edge.
I don’t get your point here, besides giving Ultron a weakness he apparently never had what else was wrong with the analysis because they put everything pretty straight forward
i
cannot agree with that reasoning
yes there's one wrong thing in the episode but the analysis outside of it is pretty good and that fight is fucking awesome
@@velvetvessel Yeah, it’s not it ultimately ruins the episode or post-analysis.
So much missed opportunity.
We could've had a Jetray vs. Hal Jordan in a Jet construct dog fight; Hal's favorite construct is a jet and missiles, because duh he was a hot shot pilot.
And biggest missed opportunity, Ben using Toe Pick or Ghost Freak; And Hal surrounded by fear, scoffs, and speaks the GL oath, then he breaks free. It could even tie in to the supernova bit, Hal commenting on how he's also done this several times already.
There were two interactions that I wanted to see that I was disappointed didn't come up in the animation:
Ben has a transformation called Toepick whose entire power set is being so horrifying to look at that it causes basically anyone who looks at it to collapse in fear. He also has Chromastone, whose gimmick is being able to absorb energy/light based attacks and fire them back. Even if neither of those would be enough to make a difference in the final outcome, those were concepts that came to mind for me while waiting for the death battle to come out and it would have been nice to see them as beats within the fight.
I wanted to see nanomech into ungrade for some spicy hacking action and if the ring counter either counter-hack or defend against upgrade
Multiple of Ben's aliens have the ability to absorb the exact kind of energy Hal projects and he has shown the ability to absorb and redirect universal+ level threats with them. There's also multiple aliens that can make him infinitely smarter than Hal. Then there's Upgrade, the tech manipulator, who could potentially interact with Hal's ring which is advanced technology. The list goes on and on because Ben has such a wide variety of aliens and many of them have extremely unique and creative abilities. They acted like Alien X was his only option then lowballed it, but neither of those things are accurate. It just really showed they didn't even try to accurately research him.
@@GigaLigma
The problem with that is that Alien X really was Ben's only option. All of his other aliens are too slow and/or too weak to keep up with Hal.
Also, absorbing the energy of a Green Lantern is pretty difficult since it's actual willpower and is something makes up part of the underlying structure of DC's cosmology. That's to mention that Hal would just... absorb it back or just overpower Ben's absorption through the sheer amount of energy he has (seriously, Hal Jordan has so much willpower that he overpowered Ion, the literal concept of willpower and the entity that grants all Green Lanterns their powers, with his own willpower, and no, I'm not joking). Plus, universe+ level threats are pretty common in DC and are much weaker than Hal, so absorbing that much energy wouldn't really affect him.
As for becoming smarter than Hal, ok? That won't really help Ben if he gets speed-blitzed, one-shot, and/or out-haxxed. Plus, isn't Alien X technically smarter?
As for Upgrade, Green Lantern tech has resistance to hacking that even multiversal supergenius's in DC can't hack into them, and Hal could just use his Ring to hack back into Upgrade's stuff. Plus, Hal could just make himself a new Ring out of his own willpower if needed (yes, he's done that).
@@infernousgaming1393 All any of this does is show that you are a diehard fan of Hal Jordan and know nothing about Ben in comparison. A lot of what you said is true, except when it comes to Ben, because you just flat out do not know anywhere near as much about him. You don't know the speeds of his fastest forms, the intelligence feats of his smartest forms, the energy absorption and redirection feats of his best absorbers; you don't even know that Upgrade has never been shown to be incapable of hacking ANYTHING and is CONSTANTLY used against extremely advanced alien tech or even living tech foes.
See, this really annoys me because I'm a big fan of BOTH characters, so reading comments like this from people who obviously know everything about one and absolutely nothing about the other, it's just obnoxious and that's all the actual death battle was too. Even the people doing the episode seemed to know practically nothing about Ben and there's no point even trying to debate with someone who has no idea what they're debating against and doesn't care to learn. Just know that this fight is nowhere near the one-sided stomp it's made out to be by GL stans and TONS of Ben's aliens could give Hal a lot of unique problems you seem oblivious to.
@@GigaLigmaseriously clockwork, nano mech, upgrade, toe pick, ghost freak, and feedback all have power of some form of manipulation that would mop Hal’s ring. I mean toe pick could put Hal in a forever fear state and just rip the finger off
The ink tank actually did a great breakdown of the episode of death battle and why it got things wrong crucial things wrong in the research. I like Green Lantern and you should really check out Ben 10 from classic all the way up to Omniverse.
Does he know
Alien X literally exists outside of time and space. Not only did he not notice the universe being erased, but he also took zero damage from it and just effortlessly brought it back. Basically, even if Ben was attacked in the past as long as he was still alien X, nothing should have phased him, and once he noticed, he just went back in time and killed green lantern while he was enjoying his victory and then just brought himself back to life with time manipulation and called it a day. The whole fight just feels like a gag at the end that makes no sense, but people are expected to take it seriously
1) Celestialsapeian age
2) Hal has Universal and Multiversal+ attack power
@l0sts0ul89 so does alien X. And even though he has all this "power," he still couldn't win and decided to travel back in time and kill Ben before the fight even started like a bitch
@@keshang_laow8325 Nope, in the Q&A Liam shows ManofAction stating that Celstialsapiens are incapable of Multiversal feats outside of doing it together asa group
I love how insightful and well educated this video is. I love Ben ten, I love it to death, this is one of the episodes that brought me back into death battle and the controversy is just…tiring.
I think the main problem people had was not THAT ben lost. But HOW ben lost.
- A one sided time-travel strike is a cheap win, when both sides can time travel.
- Detachment without the omnitrix reacting goes against multiple instances where the omnitrix reacts to preceived acts of detachment even before being touched.
- The omnitrix not being autonomous when attached to Bens DNA is also directly contradicted by the show itself since his hand (despite still being linked to him, meaning it is not just autonomous but actually can overwrite Bens command) is actually controlled by the omnitrix.
- And one of the most creative power switchers with the transformation that has the most diverse skilset goes full goku and just punches really hard.
That does not show insight into the character. That shows they had a severe, and I mean SEVERE lack of research going into bens side.
Would these factors change the outcome of the fight? I don't think so.
But would it make the fight end on a better note? Absolutely.
[A small gripe about your video tho: The Argument that people who point out bias are biased sounds good ... and that is where it ends. It is nonsense and you are better off not using phrases which get a pass only because they sound good but add zero value to the conversation and stigmitises a very legitimate concern. You are better than that.]
1. Ben has never time traveled without the help of either other people or devices. If Ben could time travel, he would have no need for the time cycles in "End of an era", and that was AFTER Ben gained control of Alien X.
2. The omnitrix has no failsafe for limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself from Ben's wrist. Cutting Ben's arm off is neither of those. Every time someone tried to cut Ben's arm off, he was saved by outside help, never by the omnitrix. Not that this matters because Hal's constructs are faster than the failsafe.
3. Ben is not particularly creative with his aliens. When he fought Galactic Gladiator, all Ben did was punch and kick, and didn't even do anything beyond basic stuff like that until he was grabbed and used clones to break out. Even when Galactic Gladiator grew bigger, Ben didn't even think "Hm...maybe I should do that too" instead literally going back on his deal with Bellicus and Serena by asking them for help. It is not in-character for Ben to use any of Alien X's more op abilities. Bellicus and Serena were the ones who recreated the universe, not Ben. The fandom heavily overplays Ben's intelligence. It is literally a running gag throughout omniverse that Ben is an idiot. He doesn't even solve any problems by himself. Even Rook comments on it.
@@tobymulema4430 An immature teenager who can't do shit without other people helping him is NOT smarter than an adult with decades of experience. Omniverse literally makes fun of Ben for being so dumb.
@@tobymulema4430 Omniverse itself attacks Ben for being dumb.
@@tobymulema4430 Hal has literally killed multiversal gods who make anything in Ben 10 look like child's play, including Alien X. He can do more than "create big fists". Read the comics, not the non canon animated and live action stuff. Hal has decades more experience fighting than Ben. Ben has not even been alive for half as long as Hal has been fighting intergalactic threats. Stop trying to make Ben sound impressive, he's not. Not compared to Hal, anyway.
@@tobymulema4430 The best Ben has done is create ONE universe. That's it.
You want me to name these multiversal gods? Ok let's start then.
Darkseid
Parallax
Krona
Spectre
Superboy Prime
Nekron
Captain Atom
Ion
Slight correction I have absolutely no idea where there getting that the failsafe has a cool down unless there's a source for that there is absolutely not a cool down for the failsafe. Furthermore the Omnitrix has been shown to actually be somewhat sentient and was also able to react faster than the big bang and contain it in feedback. Also the failsafe not only can keep Ben alive by transforming into the alien he needs at that moment which by the way the transformations are actually instantaneous the transformation sequences are just for the viewer the failsafe also keeps the Omnitrix from being removed or used by anyone else other than Ben.
I only mentioned the cooldown because it's what Death Battle said (and even then I thought that Liam should've brought up a scan or clip or something).
@@JonathanFrostathanthe cooldown was ben 10 doing by just slapping down the Omnitrix either setting a random timer or just ending up with the wrong aliens. Stated in the ben 10 movie by the creator of the Omnitrix. The Omnitrix is able to keep Ben in the aliens for a long period of time or set in the lock mode to keep him in that alien form like in the Omniverse.
@@majesticgothitelle1802and also the red state is highly theorized to be just a feature for safety(dna getting scrambled or something weird like that) or something to protect the user from going crazy.
@@SuperDestroyerFox it only really been seem with rath, feedback and Ghost freak that changes the personality of Ben. Feedback is the only alien that Ben became obsessed with after turning into the first time.
@@majesticgothitelle1802 he was using it constantly because he just found him strong and kept using him until when he got removed from the omitrix. When that happened Ben felt like he lost a part of himself.
i hated the most about this episode is the confirmation that the animation doesnt matter. lul just post a blog then bahahah
Its not that ben loat that's infuriating. Its how ben lost. 1, hal time traveled, somethjng alien x is shown doing in his debut episode, and 2, hal cut off ben's arm, somethjng which has been shown on several occasions to be impossible.
@@justinalicea1590 what about that time ben's arm gets severed from his body when Ben is in the null void and the omnitrix controls the arm to get out of danger and back to ben? Or that time the omnitrix caused a shock wave when Ben's arm was about to be cut off? Also, even if alien x couldn't time travel, maltruant, a chrono sapien, has been shown to be able to. Ben has a chrono sapien form. Ben could easily time travel too, even if alien x couldn't, but, considering alien x is capable of creating an entire universe, mind control, creating a black whole, and controlling time upon first transforming into him, I'm willing to say he could reasonably be assumed to be capable of time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 Hal surviving multiversal erasure is also an assumption, yet I've seen you say that a million times. Only Kilowag was ever directly shown being hit by the crisis wave. If we're allowed to give Hal that kind of leniency we should also give Alien X the ability to time travel.
@@justinalicea1590 but if its the lantern ring that allows people to survive multiversal erasure, and hal has it and that means hal can survive, then chrono sapiens being able to time travel and Ben having a chrono sapien form means Ben can time travel. Scaling works for both characters.
@@VannyBeumer DC is so god damn overpowered nowadays it ain't even funny it's just like "Oh he destroyed an Omegaverse that's so cool and very creative"
21:09: Okay I’m going to interject with the fights you’ve picked
Blake vs. Mikasa is overhated, to the point people think it’s biased to RoosterTeeth and RWBY, which wtf, bro, that doesn’t matter, this is a popular matchup and a lot of people love it, yes the episodes has flaws but it’s still enjoyable. In fact, it made Youronlynate happy that he got his dream episode and my girlfriend loves this episode because she loves Blake, you can say I have a lot of leniency for this particular matchup
Android 18 vs. Captain Marvel: Yes, it has issues especially in showing that 18 is more powerful than Carol, I could be misremembering I’m sorry, it has some enjoyable moments and that’s all it has
Thor vs. Raiden: Yes, this is a Season 1 episode but practically one of those fun episodes in terms of enjoyability with the fight
Korra vs. Storm: Matchup idea dumb, should’ve been Rey yes, is it enjoyable, yeah, one of some good Avatar episodes, yes she gets curb-stomped by Storm, but it’s still another enjoyable episode, and another where I had leniency
Venom vs. Crona: Yes, there are some issues but it’s one of the better Venom episodes compared to his last one, even with some of the problems, it’s a decent episode to watch
Sanji vs. Rock Lee: Yes, butchering Lee’s characterization, bad, going by some of his 8 Gates, rushed, but I still like this episode, choreography, the death and the whole fight was enjoyable
I'm referring to them as matchups not as episodes. I also included Ryu vs Scorpion on there despite it being one of my favorite episodes of the show.
@@JonathanFrostathan Sorry my bad
Honestly I'm kind of glad they didn't use Rey because, as much as I like the character, the analysis in Korra vs Storm was SUPER bad, and I don't want to see a universe where they describe every Rey feat by screaming "QUEEN SHIT" like an out of character white woman. Also I'm pretty certain that the comment section would have been the most toxic and disrespectful of any DB video regardless of if she won or not, I mean even the more recent DBC of Kylo Ren vs Edelgard was pretty nasty.
I really enjoy how in depth you went with your analysis of this episode. And how you ultimately hammered home and greatly emphasized how vs debates are subjective. Honestly, I see too much hate and people ripping each other apart over who would win. It's fine to be passionate about your favorite character... just respect the other person's, my guy.
Ben's omnitrix has been shown to prevent limb removal, and even in the instance of the limb being removed, the omnitrix has just taken over bens body. The omnitirx isnt jus lt a watch. it's an intelligent ai that has adapted to multiple instances like the Big Bang or getting crushed under objects
So what I'm trying to get here is that, the omnitrix doesn't only have one fail safe. It has multiple
It has never been shown to prevent limb removal. Only death or removal of the omnitrix itself, not chopping his whole arm off with the omnitrix still on it.
And that was because Sunder did not actually chop off Ben's flesh and blood, His hand was dimensionally separated but still physically connected, which is why he can still feel it when other people are touching his severed hand. This does not prove the omnitrix can do anything if someone actually cuts his arm off normally without any dimensional displacement nonsense. Ben had no control over his transformations in that state. Other people needed to pick up the omnitrix and mess with its controls to change Ben.
The limb removal failsafe simply does not exist.
@@mauricereticau6292thats still considered removing the omnitrix, thats what vilgax tried in classic.
Fun fact: RUclips uses the background music on videos to suggest similar content to the video you're watching. Came here from the recommendations on a tally hall video
There are some episodes I either don't want to watch or revisit because of the character I like more losing or just not being done well, and sometimes it can be really draining talking about those episodes especially if it's one where I care much less about the actual verdict and more of the characterization of the character I like more, I don't think I have to explain why Ed vs Aang is one of those (It hurts double when you love both), but any time I mention I don't like Ganondorf vs Dracula because of how Ganondorf is handled the discussion immediately becomes possibly one of the most annoying things, and yea I can be pretty stern with it but that is also just due in part to me just being sick of Smash being used for animation purposes when he literally does not fight like that at all, seeing him be characterized as a mindless brawler who just goes in all the time again and again is irritating, combine this with how Zelda has been treated in the vs community for years just because of two specific episodes and you have a recipe for disaster for how I feel about stuff, the stuff I already don't like about it plus the discussions/arguments I get in about it just makes me not want to touch the episode at all again, Vader vs Obito will be hard to revisit again but I can at least watch it and enjoy how he actually feels like himself in the fight and how the analysis is pretty good despite the outcome which would bring me back to it. The discussion of DB episodes can be annoying at times, and even disagreeing (Or agreeing with in some of my circumstances) can get you in such hot water for no reason, it would be nice if eventually all that can die down and more people start to understand and see that vs is subjective.
Someone understands it.
I have finally fully watched the video
I just want to say :
Thank you so much for making this it's own video and thank you for giving kuro an actual good criticism as opposed to what many DB fans did
This video as a Ben10 fan and as someone who is currently regaining my love for DC and especially hal jordan is nothing short of amazing And I enjoyed it , disagree with some stuff but eh opinions and shit ig
I'm excited for your season 6 retrospective and your content is amazing and you're one of the best people I saw in the vs communit tbh
Thanks, bruv. Your comment means a lot. ^_^
In my opinion the verdict does and doesn’t matter. Let’s say this: If po lost against iron fist or stitch lost against rocket most people wouldn’t have liked it as much because some of the first movie characters lost. Sure they still liked the episode but they would have been happier if they won. People are biased by nature so are always more happy when one character wins than another. I love Kirby vs Majin Buu and sure if Kirby lost I wouldn’t have loved it as much but seeing my boy getting the respect was nice. It’s like how you hate ragna vs sol. Sure the verdict didn’t matter but the way they treated your character did.
In guts vs dimitri if the first fire emblem character lost it would have soured the episode a bit.
In conclusion sure it shouldn’t really matter but seeing your preferred character get the respect they deserve and winning will always make people happier.
@@roobyrne3075tell that to classicmand
@@roobyrne3075 I’m saying if iron fist was actually capable of winning
You just described my issue with Star Butterfly Vs Steven Universe
@@e1iteyoshi998 That Steven lost or how he was represented. He was represented great in the fight with him being extremely kind and not wanting to fight until he went pink and became murderous like in the show.
@@KirbyStarAnimation Star Butterfly actually.
Season 1 human vs human is the most hated episode
True.
Hey but atleast it’s treated as a joke episode (I find it kinda funny because of Early 2010 humor)
@@maribelrocha3814It was funny then now it’s just awful
The reason Alien X was too slow to stop the universe from being destroyed was cause Ben hadn't unlocked Alien X's full capabilities by finally getting the other two personalities of Alien X to cooperate, yet.
that's possible, but i doubt it.
they didn't debate or draw it out, they just immediately told him that it was too late to stop the destruction, even though it as still happening. it's the first time they've ever gotten right to the point, no less. though not the first time the alien personalities were too slow to act, even in the era when they both could override ben by agreeing.
alien x wasnt too slow omg. did you not watch the episode. ben literally said himself why he didnt stop it. damn ppl are so oblivious. ben didnt know it was being destroyed. thats it, period.
@@e2d_rblx he actually did. the voices even confirmed it for him, but told him it was too late to do anything about it anyway.
the destruction wasn't even done, they just couldn't do anything at this point.
He literally saw the button get pressed dude... why do you think he changed into Alien X in the first place... and you say I'm oblivious....@@e2d_rblx
Yeah, I've seen the argument so many times that Alien X is limited based solely on the fact that he can't control it until the very very end of the series. He overcomes the form's limits and this form turns into the strongest celestialsapien in existence due to this.
This video felt like a genuine analysis and retrospective on the GL vs. Ben 10 Death Battle all up until the analysis of Kuro the Artist's take on the same video. Once he got to that point, it just felt like he was an angry Green Lantern fan yelling at a Ben 10 fan, and it just screamed bias.
Yeah, Kuro is a huge part of the Ben 10 community and obviously has bias, but Johnny here judt seems to be doing the exact same thing Kuro did, and simply enforcing his Green Lantern bias and getting upset at someone trying to debunk the fact his prefered character won.
I definitely think both sides have valid arguments as to why one over the other should've won, but maybe have an open mind to the other sides arguments, and this goes to Johnny and Kuro, instead of just pulling out the "Nuh uh" card and screaming at the top of your lungs that the other side is just straight up wrong 23:31
I definitely understand your side and agree with you, but the example you went with was more of a joke thing btw. I think that there are better examples you could've gone with.
Also, that was definitely not the top of my lungs. I've gone way higher than that in the past. Also, what "Green Lantern bias"? I literally say that I'm neutral on the debate and that Hal isn't one of my favorite DC characters lol.
To anwser the tittle, probably not BUT they should have explained it better. Thats been my issue with the episode
I was annoyed back in the day at the fact Ben lost but these days I'm over it. The only real thing that bugs me about how DB did Ben is;
1. His portrayal
2. Analysis of Ben and battle's aftermath
besides the ending imo the fight was actually pretty lit and the music was awesome
Plus, everything in the prelude basically said "Ben's gonna win this. It's gonna be tough, but Ben's got a slight edge in enough places where he can pull the win"
And then they had Hal do something he's never done before in any iteration to pull a win, and it felt like an ass-pull
@@sev1120 yea fr
@@sev1120 Yea fr
What i hate about this argument as a whole is that ben 10 fans say that ben should have won and give reasoning but most people on hal's side just do not say anything other than you are wrong without giving reasoning, they are right but boy they don't want to look like it
Oh yeah, for sure. Hal supporters do act really snarky about this debate for no reason.
Yeah this kinda leads to the situation I have where I dont know any feats for the Green Lantern ring in specific that arent directly tied to Hal. I understand Hal uses it really well but I dont know what it's generally capable of and in comparison to what I know the Omnitrix can do it makes it seem like the Omnitrix and it's semi-sentience is just stronger than the average ring. Plus I've yet to see anyone properly explain how Hal could survive instant erasure. He survives non-instant erasure, sure, but that required him to summon his willpower and act against it. Something he wouldnt be able to do to Alien X's instant erasure.
@@autisonmyeah because he was off screen for the crisis. John Stewart was the actual one there
@@christianjacobs2193 Huh?
ben still solos
Characters not fighting creatively is something Death Battle constantly struggles with. They use characters that can utilize their powers in unique ways yet all they do is slap each other until one falls over.
I’ve been watching them for over a decade and they keep making the same mistakes.
They’re not good at what they try to do.
It takes a lot of time to do something truly awesome and unique especially when it comes to a match like this , it'll take weeks or more of animation to make a 5 minute fight which isn't always worth it when running a show.
I wish It was better though
41:45 What did he put in the comic? I don't get it 😅
I thought ben should have won initially because of, like you described, the poorly written conclusion. looking into it a bit more and just coming to the understanding that dc shouldn't even really be in match up videos given how ridiculous they are power wise and I'm significantly more chill about it nowadays. that being said I wish they'd used some more variety with bens aliens and I still think the scissors thing was dumb, though the way you portrayed it made it a bit more sensical.
i grew up with ben 10 so seeing hin lose made me upset alien x seemed really weak which is weird i fell like the while time travel thing was kind of a Boring way to end i even ben still lost could have do something cool like goku vs superman and lets fact it hal killing a child in cold blood is something he never do i know is death battle but still is a bit crazy
It's always hilarious seeing the salty wankers try and find ANY reason for their character to win. The Alucard wankers are especially hilarious, throwing around the word omnipresent without knowing what it even means and with ZERO feats to support it.
True, but Ben is literally the God of the universe he is in. The universe got destroyed and he made a copy of it. Their is an episode where he goes to trial for it.
@@rolay7730 And....? Green Lantern is capable of working around that. Power isn't everything. Also just putting it out there that Alien X sucks narratively speaking. A literal Gary Sue race.
@jackstar7204
How does the omnitrix suck? Not ever transformation us that strong and he usually refuses to pick aliens that are too strong out of a sense of fairness.
I fully agree about that with the green lantern ring. At least Ben doesn't just think about being strong and get a boost like the ring does.
@@rolay7730 I never said anything about the Omnitrix, I said that Alien X specifically sucks because it takes all narrative tension away. Why worry if a villain is going to win if you can just turn into GOD?
@@rolay7730 Also when did I say that green lantern's fuel source was lame? I think it's kinda cool. I actually prefer it over the omnitrix.
0:49 i did not expect electric mind to show up here. But that Bast!
Honestly, I've seen more people hate on Tifa vs Yang than this one. Rightfully so.
Well to be fair at least the team acknowledged they got that one wrong. Like what happened with Peach vs Zelda in season 1.
@@e1iteyoshi998 True. Doesn't make the episode any less unbearable though.
"Why do you care about the result? Would you like if the other character won but the episode was shit otherwise?"
No. And that's a dumb argument. Obviously if the episode is shit, then it's shit. Regardless of who wins. But that's not an argument against the result being important. That's such a bad faith argument, which sucks because I enjoyed the rest of the video. Only thing I disagree with is that it's fair to use other Lanterns for Hal's feats. By that logic every single Lantern also has Hal's feats. Hal should be able to stand on his own; he's more than powerful enough.
That's not how that works, hal has been stated numerous times to have the greatest willpower of any green lantern, and the more willpower they have the stronger a green lantern is. So hal can do anything another green lantern with weaker willpower than him can do but not vice versa, because he has the most willpower. All green lanterns have the same exact set of powers, they just have different output, and hal has the greatest output out of them all.
@@valenschristianyosua "Hal could, in theory, do things the other Lanterns did."
Yeah, but Hal didn't do them. That's not hos Death Battle works. We're pitting Ben against Hal, not against the hypothetical ideal Lantern (which would probably still be Hal, but that's beside the point)
Oh this was a very interesting watch.
I am very new to watching death battle related stuff thanks to my partner’s Ranking videos, so learning about things like How Green Lanturn vs Ben 10 was so controversial has been uh. Hmm. Hard to wrap my head around?
I am very much in a “idc who wins. As long as i enjoy the episode its neat.”
Having a character I like win is just a cherry on top.
Glad you enjoyed it. Also, I hope that my $8 donation from yesterday's stream helps you guys out. Or at the very least, be enough to castrate Elon Musk. ;)
Actually the part about about Omnitrix mutation because being of it is over used wasn’t actually because of Kevin. Bit instead mention as a text as a “did you know fact” as a extra thing in a DVD from the Ben 10 shows franchise (just like how they brought up how Toph can feel earth that isn’t connected to the ground. But Ben 10 VS Green Lantern they don’t show where it comes from). I remember this because someone posted a screenshot of of the fun fact text on Reddit around 1.5 years ago. I can’t actually show the screenshot because I haven’t actually been able to find it myself and I didn’t download the picture of the screenshot on my phone, and I don’t think I have a chance to find the post again after so long time.
They likely got that information from a flashback in omniverse, where Azmuth said that relying on one form too much could cause him lack control with others OR from the reboot when the omnitrix had was broken and kept rotating between aliens and Phil said "there's no DNA signature for Ben".
Tldr....they misinterpreted information...shocker
This is an interesting video to discover your channel from. I will say that I grew up with Ben 10 so I’m 100% biased in his favor but I know that outside of Batman characters most DC characters are cracked. I feel Hal wins though I feel the fight itself was pretty disappointing as someone who returned to watching DB with the episode.
My main issue is how weirdly Ben is represented. Like you’ve seen the Kuro video so seeing Kid Ben pulling out Alien X is the same energy as seeing like Classic Megaman use a Megaman X ability. As someone who adored the franchise seeing them only use Original Series aliens (and Alien X) then proceed to blue ball the fans by bringing up numerous cool aliens Ben used and their stats…it really hurts man. Also stings learning apparently there was a cut scene with RATH and they cut it?????
I feel in retrospect Ben 10 is legit one of the harder fighters to use with the budget DB fights have, but man I just wanted to see the Ben I watched over the years and see some of the cooler stuff like Atomix, Crash Hopper, Chromastone, and Buzzshock. I heard apparently they want to use Ben again in the future and honestly I support them doing it I feel they can improve using Ben in the future (the DBX was…alright? I like that they used more aliens but also seeing every alien’s sprite be literally the Official art but pixelated takes me out of the fight constantly)
I really enjoy hearing your thoughts on this especially seeing you cover the Kuro videos since while I use to agree with him on some parts the composite Ben bit was so scuffed! Welp…time to go through your Catelog and catch up on your content. Amazing video!!
Hal is able to be scaled to the feats of every other Lantern, since they all wield the same weapon, namely the Power Ring. If you have enough willpower, (and Hal does indeed), then you can accomplish the same feats. Simple really.
At the end of the day, it's the ben 10 community who got mad as they usually do. Why? Because they think ben 10 is the most powerful character in fiction now and can't accept another character beating him, but here's my conclusion: Ultraman negs both of them.
I mean the ben 10 community was fine before the deathbattle either way superman negs both ultra man,ben and Green lantern.
@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 I respect your opinion. (I was joking saying Ultraman negs both of them BTW)
@@ConThatTokuBoy 👍
I can admit ben would get smoked, maybe after putting up a fight, but ben would ultimately get wrecked.
First there’s a biff weed review, than DigitalTy’s season 8 premiere later today. And now an almost half hour long review on one of my favorite episodes. Not a half bad day for death battle fans.
Thank you for notifying me on digitalty.
And I think Galactic Attorney's review should arrive later tonight or maybe tomorrow. Either, Death Battle fans are eating good.
@@JonathanFrostathan yeah lol
@@KirbyStarAnimation your welcome 👍🏻
@@KirbyStarAnimation"Ty, huh? Thanks for the tip!"
This video is amazing a couple notes.
1. I really wish you brought up Time Huh? not because I think it's funny but it's because I don't really get the joke 😭. IDK who else could explain it. I only laugh at it because I know it's a meme which feels worse than actually knowing the punchline.
2. #ObitoSweep #RavenSweep #HankPymSweep I got all of them wrong too (while I did change my mind before the animation started it was after I did way too much digging on the characters in a way that it wasn't really a prediction at that point.) I feel your pain homie.
The time huh moment became a meme because it's one of those "moments that precede unfortunate events" scenarios.
Didn’t you think it was weird how alien x, a being that exists outside of the universe, is somehow affected by someone else’s time traveling? It just feels weird to me that he can just go back to before he transformed, when that shouldn’t theoretically be possible, also the fact that he survived the Big Bang purely because of the omnitrix acting on its own
Because existing outside the universe is not really a feat. It doesn't grant you any special powers. I don't even know how this misconception came to be. By that logic so many normal humans in DC would be unaffected by someone else's time traveling.
@@mauricereticau6292existing beyond our universe really isn't a feat, though sotobro effect from alien X and chronosapiens do counter this specific instance
Their whole race are born in a plane beyond the multiverse and space time. Alien X is practically immune to the effects of time that includes time travel. It's also weird why he didn't just follow Hal through the time stream
@@mauricereticau6292 thats why the universe disintegrating had absolutely no effect on alien X, thats like saying the beyonder existing outside the multiverse had no effect on his power stupid logic
@@kwalterrasquinha413 That's not how that works at all. Existing outside something doesn't mean anything. You need to actually show you have multiversal durability for it to be true. We know he has universal durability because he actually did tank that. But until explicitly proven, he is not multiversal in any way.
I went into the episode thinking Hal stomped the entire known Omnitrix and that Alien X would be the great equalizer and just strong enough to pull out a victory. The cheap win in a fashion that just wouldn't work in context of the episode in addition to the explaination being different from what I saw was what made me mad.
My issues with certain episodes from the past seasons stem from the inconsistency or sometimes rather a lack of not enough research for one character. It's not the first they've done this too: Goku vs Superman, Scout vs Tracer, this one, and Nathan Drake vs Lara Croft are the biggest examples. But for me the worst one i think can of was with Archie Silver/Xeno Trunks and Twilight Sparkle vs Raven.
Twilight vs Raven is a more personal matchup I've wanted to see for awhile since I'm a fan of Tara Strong as she's played both characters. The reason why the episode turned out to be a massive disappointment though was cause of how the research was unbalanced. Raven's soul self was calculated precisely to the point where i can tell they did their work with how powerful but i find it questionable how they can apply the rl physics to when her soul self isn't a physical form. And when it came down to Twilight i feel like they didn't cover enough material for her despite the claim they look at all materials. Yet they only looked at the tv show and movies. There's an entire comics series that has Twilight showing off lots of insane skills with magic and i don't get why they didn't apply any of it to their analysis. And i don't see time constraints as an excuse when they looked through hundreds of Marvel comics to see if Raiden's blade could cut through Wolverine's Adamantium skull in Raiden vs Wolverine episode. It made me feel like Raven was heavily favored in the episode.
As for Archie Silver and Xeno/DBH Trunks the research for that episode made me realize that they didn't know what they were talking about with the research when they did Archie Sonic vs the Flash. Several feats they gave Silver and even scaling to Archie Sonic contradicted the info from that episode and honestly made it seem like Xeno/DBH Trunks was underpowered compared to Archie Silver. I know the Archie Sonic comics are known for characters breaking the rules of their respective universe but even by DB standards i felt like there was bs going on here. The amount of contradictions in the research with even the researchers admitting on their blog that they didn't even know how to properly scale the world of Dragon Ball Heroes made me throw everything into question on the research itself.
I think what the examples i brought up boil down to is that while not everything in researching is gonna be perfect there's a level of consistency that people expect to see when it comes to their research. It's why i fear the day when they make Goku vs Superman 3. We know it's gonna happen but the day it happens i dread it cause of what happened with how they fucked up Goku vs Superman 2 so badly. Will they have improved or will the third charm be the worst of the trilogy? Who knows but until then I'm airing on the side of caution for it.
I also thought the disparity between Archie Silver and Archie Sonic was EXTREMELY odd. They give the entire Archie world insane feats in the Silver episode that are contradicted in Sonic's episode. I don't necessarily care which one is wrong but one of them is obviously wrong.
calling out people for you having bias having more bias is showing even more bias. technically by your logic
and why people didn't care about other episodes....its the camels back thing. people DID care before but it was not many. it became more over time and ben 10 was the breaking point. the peak so to speak. it may still have detractors now but after ben 10 following super man v goku people just didn't care that much anymore.
if the failsafe pulse has a cooldown how didn’t the failsafe change him to a alien like you said diamond head it literally spammed change ben when he was stopping the universe from getting destroyed again
a particular point they bought that didnt sit well with me was the "celestial sapiens can fail and have been defeated in the past" while true, they
1- say it showing a clip of a celestial sapien being defeated by ANOTHER celestial sapien, this felt like they saying that a regular person can beat a MMA fighter because he lost to another MMA fighter
2 - the whole creating a universe thing felt more like he created because he was to late to save it, not because he couldnt (heck ben straight up says it)
Just because you're strong in your universe doesn't mean you are in another
@@l0sts0ul89 the issue was in how they presented said argument, like he said during the vídeo. They said in a way that felt like they mean Ben is not that strong rather than showing that Hal is stronger then we are giving him credit to, something that they have been improving with later episodes
Actually they could still save it serna and bellicus just didn't want to Ben was dissteesd and ask them to fix it and they did he didn't say how so bellicus as the voice of arggesion and rage took some liberty eut
It
If they had a better explanation, i wouldn't have been as against Ben losing, but when Alien-x doesn't react to the time travel....but is alien x?, is that they take limitations that 10 year old ben has. Like you mentioned (and if i recall, Kuro mentioned), why didn't the omnitrix just turn him into diamondhead to stop the scisssors?, or goop. Or chromastone (whos been destroyed and brought back as diamondhead). He's 'died' in human form, and in alien form, and just come back as a different alien (example being made into another alien to stop the death, feedback/almost all his aliens to stop a big bang).
I'm glad that the fandom got this big boom from the death battle. And after seeing some videos and looking further into Hal jordan i can see how he'd be able to beat ben.
I think what kuro meant by bias, not being as preference for the winner paticularly, but preference over defending and re-explaining hals' feats, as opposed to explaining where they went wrong with ben, but how Hal still defeats him.
As mentioned, they still use limitations from 10 year old ben, (which would be the equivalant of nerfing Hal to be the 'green energy man' that newer animated media shows him to be, as oppose to the power he actually has.)
If they had taken time to explain where they went wrong with ben, and then explain how Hal would still beat ben, as opposed to just defending Hal. Then i'm sure Kuro would not have mentioned bias. (Although for sure other saltier fans would.)
If they fight had gone on longer. Like your example of ben being transformed into diamondhead, alien x travelling back in time. A brawl between the 2 hals and the 2 bens. Resulting in past ben being destroyed (perhaps by some form of megaphone construct), and then the 2 full-power non-clon Hal's overwhelming Alien-x (who would still be around due to being alien x, not feeling the affects of a paradox)
Overwhelming ben as alien x, causing him to attempt to transform into another alien. Causing the paradox to consume him. Which would show Hal as the winner and the more responsible and experienced he is when it comes to time travel and multiverses, whereas Ben merely stepped upon it in Omniverse.
Overall, the biggest issues arose due to how they appeared to nerf Ben for the deathbattle, regardless of if he still would have lost, he should have lost in the way he did.
And i can understand why Kuro would mention not wanting DB to touch Ben if they weren't going to do him justice.
As great as the exposure was, it also exposed an incomplete misunderstanding of the character to the larger DB crowd. Although i disagree, as the ben we got would be better then no ben in DB.
Something I've always wondered about that death battlle: What about Ben's ability to use the omnitrix to modify the DNA of an entire race on voice command? Couldn't he use that to turn Green latern into a bug? Just like Dr. Animo did with a single piece of the omnitrix in one of the episodes of the original series.
when is it said to have the ability to modify an entire species at will? didn't animo have to build an entire machine to amplify it and acheive that specific power?
hal's specifically genetic tampering by cosmic god weapons before and can actually do the same thing, i'm just curious about the omnitrix power.
@@danielwilson8604
Ben literally used voice command to modify the DNA of the entire Highbreed race in the finale of alien force. And has accidentally modified Kevin and Gwen, his own parents in the movies, Rook, many plumber trainees, villains and even Azmuth himself. And future Ben can even fuse alien species.
Keep in mind that Dr. Animo managed to use this ability of the Omnitrix to modify DNA just by having one single piece of the omnitrix to work with. Now imagine the power that Ben has to modify DNA of others in an instant with the entire Omnitrix at his disposal.
@@giboit. fair enough, it still likely wouldn't do much in this situation, and completey drained the battery when we saw it, but you are completely right that it can alter an entire species.
i wouldn't call the fusion thing the same though, it's just editing the archetypes the omnitrix uses to transform ben.
@@danielwilson8604
It only runs out the battery when it's used on universal scale, like in the case of the Highbreeds. It can totally modify the DNA of single individual as if it was nothing without issues.
And I think the fusion feature is relevant because it massively increases Ben's potential in battle.
@@giboit. wfair enuogh, it still wouldn't actually do anything to someone who can resist genetic modification or alteration to his personal reality.
and the fusion feature would be an interesing addition, but wouldn't change much. hal has pretty much all of ben's powers, but can use more at once, even with the fusion feature, without sacrificing any power to do so. would have been cool to see though.
I took it personal when you sarted calling everybody out for their un - civil responses. Everyody has the inalienable right to do/say whatever they want (wether it's legal is another discussion) even if it is idiotic.
As for the video, yeah "I can bull*hit my way trough anything with willpower" sums it up.. Don't care enough to investigate any further than the DB episode. Truth be told I just don't like Hal and in my unknowledgeable opinion will power wouldn't overpower a god but alas, I was wrong.
Already spent too much time writing the comment for something I honestly shouldn't care about. But still you deserve credit for the good work. Nice vid, left a like
The problem I had with this death battle is they decided to use one character at his peak and another at his weakest.
@@justinalicea1590 True but they use Ben’s feats from the newer series (or when he was older) but use kid ben and his omnitrix. It made me feel like they choose characters out of random.
@@justinalicea1590 yea I realized that after making my comment but i still think it feel like the match up was still out of random and the reasoning for choosing these characters to fight was because they green. But thats just my opinion because just by looking at the thumbnail I can tell that Ben would’ve lost. They could’ve been better match ups between these characters like ben 10 vs beast boy would’ve made more sense.
Also they had more sensible match between characters during that time like thanos vs darksaeid
@@justinalicea1590 literally every alien in that episode except Alien X was from the Prototype Omnitrix. They didn't have sprites for aliens like Way Big so why couldn't they just have him use another alien in the same matter, especially since Ben has the master control in this battle?
I like how you point out that the Sonic fanbase is "that kind of fanbase", when it's easily one of the most lowballed series on the show. Numerous multiverse-level feats, consistent "the Chaos Emerald are infinite" statements, and they still most recently put a single Chaos Emerald at continental. Just for that jab for absolutely no reason, this video is getting a dislike.
Well. That's your scaling so cool i think, i don't put the chaos emeralds at the level you do but well. It's your scaling. Who cares.
@@omegaaklx303 But you're just wrong. They don't reach that level through scaling alone. They are specifically stated many times by many reputable sources (from Tails to Eggman to Professor Pickle) to contain infinite power. It'd be like saying Mario doesn't beat Bowser, or that Superman doesn't get stronger in the sun.
Keep bitching. You're proving his point
as someone who is more biased towards ben 10 here is my reasoning for why some fans like me are upset.
the thing is that ben lost in a way that has already failsafe against it. while the omnitrix's failsafe are ambiguous we know that omnitrix transforms his user into an alien whenever it detects a life threatening scenario which it has done quite a few times. ben literally survived the big bang because the omnitrix's failsafe kicked in.
next is that the DC comics may not be the mainstream source of information about dc characters for many fans thus most of hal's ability seemed like a one time feat or perhaps one that was scrapped in post crisis or new 52 or any other reset similar to how superman can lift infinity in one of these and cannot in another. your video has shown that these are feats that can be done quite often.
another is that ben has so many aliens that are much more powerful than four arms or heatblast and nearly none of them make an appearance.
next is that while hal may be superior to alien X they do not understand alien x at all. Alien X can destroy, create and alter reality at a whim. there was a whole storyline in which aggregor wanted to absorb a baby alien x and that if he did so he could become the ruler of the entire universe and no one could stop him. The only way the could've refuted alien x being much weaker was to simply state that only ben was influencing alien x and had no support of the dual personalities within all alien x which need to agree to do any action. however in the episode universe vs tennyson ben gets the "keys" to alien X. in that episode it is also heavily implied that alien x is also immune to memory changes as everone except ben and other alien x even know that the universe was destroyed.
i may not have got my exact point across but these are the few gripes that bother me a lot and while i don't mind ben loosing i feal that it more felt like he was curbstomped instead of actually losing. people tend to forget that DC has been around for 80 years and that the feats characters of that universe has displayed could probably solo several anime. As a casual watcher i feel that the research was not extensive on both universes because there are feats that both characters have done that are not acknowledged or not justified properly.
@@Squeam9750 then at least they should've quoted it because I and many fans are very unaware of Hal's feats. even the justice league animate show has shown john stewart instead of hal and there are times when hal's ring is either charged by multiple rings or maybe oa itself. not to mention both lores can get complicated which is often forgotten or misunderstood due to many factors for example ben 10 has several scenes where the problem could've been solved in a minute but because of some nuances it takes a whole entire episode. or the comedy overshadows some feats.
At the end there you were kinda misunderstanding the issue
People like seeing there character win if he wins and it doesn't make sense that doesn't really matter to alot of people because they still won
And if a character like Ben 10 is much more popular than your other examples of bad verdicts
I'm going to say this:i agree completely with you
Now my opinion on the episode im fact: .... I think it was mid (mediocre, a 5/10, gosh people completely changed the meaning of mid huh) but it was because of huge expectations, i am a huge fan of ben ten, and green lantern is probably my favorite... Mythos? Inside the DC universe, and to top all that, i even thought about this Matchup way before discovering Death Battle, so my stakes for it was pretty high, then i watched the episode and... I was so disappointed, the first half was good but when Alien X appears..., Anyway you said everything i would like to say
Again, i agree with everything you said, thank you.
I will admit i am completely biased and dislike how ben lost
But the reason i wont change my opinion is because ive yet to meet a person who properly convinces me.
I've gone back and forth with people in comment sections arguing that the U-Bomb is some multiversal erasing bomb and dont explain what it is. Why is it called a U bomb? Would the U stand for universe? Like you cant just say "Oh it is" and I've probably been guilty of that but thats because most of the arguments have self explanatory evidence.
Another thing is people arguing ben only has hacks with his other aliens with my experience of that being people saying "Oh clockwork used HACKS to reverse a bomb that was destroying every single other timeline" but.. that isnt how his powers work he has the power to slow down time and uses as much energy as he can to reverse it. You cant just claim something is hacks you have to have evidence. Unfortunately i dont have much evidence to counter it but that means you should have a better time debunking me since i can't pull anything out my ass
Best argument i heard is "Hal beat someone stronger than alien x" would love some evidence but it was just an offhand joke so cant expect much though it gives some kind of explanation instead of "NO YOU'RE WRONG YOUR SHOW DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT BUT MINE DOES"
It's called the U-Bomb because it's called the U-Bomb, it's full name didn't matter only what it was capable of.
Anyway Hal beat an Evil Guardian named Krona, who has nearly all of the emotional entities. One entity basically makes you a God, having 6 of them makes you go behind that.
Hal killed him anyway
The problem with the episode is that they nerfed Ben if they were composite versions then Ben should know how to use the Omnitrix perfectly understand all his aliens and there are characters weaker than alien x who were able to recreate an infinite multiverse they intentionally nerfed Ben while buffing Hal
They state no outside power-ups outside of their base equipment.
A solid number of the feats they used for Hal had him doing it either not alone or with a power-up
They say he helped pull the earth, but when Superman's doing part of the job, he's doing ALL of the job. You're there for moral support
@@sev1120 hal has many planetary feats,that one wouldn't even matter tbh
@@sev1120 I made this comment to get Hal fans angry but my actual problem is that while they used a canon version of Han they just slapped master control and alien x on an inexperienced ten year old Ben with an Omnitrix that doesn't have failsafes outside of the one that protects the watch it's like giving a young Hal with three months of experience a broken power ring that can do powerful things only when the plot needs it it should have been either one of the adult bens or Ben from omniverse in omniverse he is the strongest we've ever seen him and the celestial sapiens affect the entire infinite multiverse not just one they didn't change the artstyle and voices in the prime universe they did it in every single universe so they are able to do something that affects infinity yes Hal probably still wins I'm a DC fan and I liked Hal a lot when I was younger but I don't know about many of his versions especially not from comics I don't care about who won I care about the fact that they intentionally didn't make the fight fair
@@chideraumejiaku3895 didn't Kylo reiner or whatever the guy who found his dead gf in the fridge struggle to do a planetary fear while having the power of all the green lanterns?(I heard it a few years ago in a video explaining why he seems weaker after a surtain point so I'm just curious if I remember right)
@@Geoemophobic I agree with you, though I personally think that Ben could eke out a win 2% more than Hal.
Either way, it's gonna be close, but if it was any other Lantern I'd easily give it to the GL rep, due to how each human GL has different strengths (Hal's wellspring of will, Jon's significantly stronger, near unbreakable constructs, Guy's sheer force behind his blasts and constructs, and Jessica's skill in fighting even whilst ringless)
That's just my opinion however
I recently found an interesting comment while perusing through the comments of Ink Tank's response to the Death Battle. Apparently it is all just his opinion and nothing more than what the audience expected of him.
Which is certainly an interesting claim he's making, given that the purpose and expectation of his response videos was for him to "prove that Death Battle is dumb and wrong."
37:38 Yes I have had this feeling Wanda vs Zatanna was the most recent example. Over time I the episode grew on me. It a fun episode. There are episodes I don’t agree with but I don’t want to rant about.
I'm glad someone is finally mentioning the idea that the debunks can be wrong. Seriously, if people are gonna scream "BIAS" towards DB then look at the Ben 10 guy and just take his word for it, then maybe they should re-evaluate what the word "bias" actually means.
Ben 10 Solos Hal Green lantern
PRECISELY!! Like I said: no one is more biased than the person who accuses others of being biased while also claiming to be unbiased.
@@oliwierkosmowski6645nah
@@Warking19 nope Ben 10 Slams Hal Cope 🍷🗿
@@oliwierkosmowski6645 prove it lol
The Mind Electric caught me by surprise. Such a good track from an even greater album
i can't lie, when you talked about the Ring and it allegedly having better failsafes than the Omnitrix the first thing i thought of was the panels shown at minute 25:33. even if it does have failsafes, and even if they're better than the Omnitrix, they seemingly don't work against Nigh-Omnipotent beings. if Dr. Manhattan can get past the failsafes of a Ring, so can Alien X.
Alien X isn't Dr Manhattan
@@l0sts0ul89 i know that. but they're about equivalent in terms of power.
@@l0sts0ul89
And Green Lantern can't beat Ben either.
@@strider_hiryu850
No they aren't, when has Alien X one shot a chick who can kill multiversal beings? Who has Alien X scared a guy who can think awAy the universe and makes New God's look like a joke?
@@wiggard
Only if you ignore everything Hal has done then sure.