Shadow is mainline. Literally a direct extension of the lore set up in SA2 & the plot in Heroes. In fact Shadow was the last game in the series to maintain the streak of each new Sonic game directly continuing from where the previous game’s story left off.
@@spontmanI agree, as an ex kingdom hearts fan this is a discussion I've seen time and time again. Should chain of memories be considered mainline? What about coded, 358/2 days? Perhaps DDD, It plays mostly like mainline entries and its right between 2 and 3. And so on and so forth. Personally I consider ShtH the most pure definition of a spin off, its tone its intentionally as far as the main series they could get, gameplay kinda resembles Heroes but with guns, you don't play as the main character and it even plays around with the canonicity of its own story since it has 11 different endings with 326 possible paths. Sure, story and character arcs are important, but, in terms of starwars for example, I wouldn't consider Rogue One mainline despite sitting between 3 and 4 and explaining a major plot point.
@@Chibiknux Spot on comment, I find it hilarious that many Sonic fans still think it as mainline even if Sega already called Shadow the Hedgehog a spin-off title on their press release right when the game got first announced in March 2005. Sonic fans really need to do their research and stop living in a bubble.
@@totempoleman7810 FIrstly quit that elitist crap; "Sonic fans need to do their research and quit livin in a bubble" we're literally using our own eyeballs and our own basic logic to determine if it's a spinoff or not. Just cuz SEGA said its a spinoff (also plz link to me whoever said cuz they may or may not know what a spinoff is) doesn't mean it actually is. Shadow's gameplay is based off of the adventure games and to a lesser extent heroes, most of the locales are from the main series, story wise it's a sequel to sa2, and it has a vast majority of elements from the previous 3D games like I really don't know what to tell you the frickin game might as well be mainline. Wario Land is a spinoff, Tails Adventures and Tails Skypatrol are spinoffs
When people praise Shadow the Hedgehog's story they're usually referring to the JP script, it is an entirety different beast than the awful localization. In particular I think it was Pariah695's "The Story of Shadow the Hedgehog" video that sparked more interest in how the game handles its narrative, consider giving it a watch if you're curious.
I really like this format of short reviews in a 30 minute video. Your videos are always a delight to listen to in the background and this format really engaged me even more. I’d love to see this format for the 3D Mario games or other series you really like that don’t require a full 30 minute retrospective on. Fantastic work and your opinions are always very interesting to listen to.
I'm not the biggest fan of "Sonic 3D: Flickies Island", but Traveller's Tales is my favourite British game development studio. They used to make games based on Pixar films, and the one for PS1 based on "Toy Story 2" I've studied a lot in my free time because of how well it nails collect-a-thon game design. Released in 1999, a movie-based game essentially perfected a sub-genre whilst "Donkey Kong 64" from another British studio kind of killed it.
Actually Sonic Boom rise of lyric was meant to be a bigger game on it initial launch (on PS4, Xbox one and PC). A lot of concept art, eliminated maps, sections, mechanics and more was revealed years later about the development of this game that personally it's amazing, I love Project Apollo. Like, the combat was meant to have more variety in moves and the main focus was teamwork (even more than heroes) and the quality of the stages (for what we see in some trailers) was gorgeous.
I recently played Black Knight again and it was a bit frustrating to me. It does everything right, except the gameplay. The game is so linear, its cluttered with all types of usually boring missions, the ranking system is just plain unfair, etc. I like the game overall but, it's definitely not something I'm returning to very often.
@@spontman It’s even funnier when you compare the Japanese voice. He sounds like a deep voiced anime monster. It fits, and then you go back and “EWWWWW A BLUEEEEE RAT!”
I’m surprised by the positive review for 3D blast. I just didn’t find the gameplay engaging enough to continue past the 1st zone. Have you played the directors cut?
I really like Unleashed Wii but understand its criticisms. I do agree that the nighttime stages are a step down from the "HD" versions but the daytime stages are actually my favorite out of any 3D Sonic. No joke! They feel the most like the Rush games seeing as they were made by the same developer and they're quite fun to speedrun! I actually prefer using the boost in short bursts at a time as it allows the player to choose the right time to use it rather than just spamming it. It also sucks that you can't skip the cutscenes which is something that should NEVER happen in any video game ever! Overall it's a top 10 Sonic game for me and I'd even slightly prefer it to SA1! But I still prefer games like Gens as let's not forget, the boost stages, while amazing in both games, are only one half of them and I'll gladly take the other half of gens over both versions of Unleashed any day!
I liked the idea of Sonic with a sword, but I was thinking he’d be more powerful and be able to just plow through enemies with the sword while his other moves would still be useful. Instead the homing attack only damages things when you time the swing with it, which is really inconsistent. Meh.
Here my rating for these games (Excluding Sonic Lost World 3DS, Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic Dream Team, which I haven't played yet): Shadow the Hedgehog: 5/10 No good, not bad, it's just meh... Also the story is intended to be serious and dark, but it ended up being a parody, because you can't really take it seriously with cutscenes as funny like Shadow killing Dr. Eggman with one blow saying: "Goodbye Doctor!" Sonic and the Secret Rings: 4/10 Visually, the levels are great, the soundtrack is the best, and the story, although it is not one of my favorites, is at least competent, but man, the controls are awful. Sonic Unleashed Wii: 7/10 Very good, and Daytime Sonic's levels are some of the best of all the boost games. Also, the final boss is way better than the 360/PS3 version. Sonic and the Black Knight: 6/10 If it weren't for its good story, this game would have passed unnoticed. Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric: 2/10 Well... I don't have much to tell. Edit: good video
Secret rings just doesn’t tell you which missions are mandatory, you could probably look them up online, unless you feel that your time is better spent doing something else.
@@virtualashez Can't be when the game's story is literally the opening cutscene and the last story. As to how shadow got there no one knows and that's an issue
1-About 3d blast special stages, if you do them all and get the chaos emeralds you unlock the true final boss 2- I dunno where you been searching, but everytime I see people talking about Shadow the Hedgehog story its always in a negative way 😂
@@spontman lol indeed, Im with you on that one. The only part of the story I think is good is the last story, the rest of the game's story is just bad...
Out of all these games I’ve played 2 and finished them, dream team and lost world 3ds. Honestly if you played more of the LW3ds you might’ve rated it lower, I do agree that the controls are a lot better but damn do this stages suck mainly half way to the end, they are so torturous long and tedious and the puzzles get WAY WAY worse that game might be one of the worst sonic games I’ve played especially with the motion control special stages. Dream team was nothing but boring for me, I love the controls and visuals but everything else falls flat for me, music, story, some voice acting, and tedious missions. This game really just feels held back for being a mobile game and other factors. Also great video I’ve seen your content around for a while and it’s great definitely subscribing and sticking around to see more quality content.
I think the only thing I feel the need to make a comment on is Dream Team's ost, I personally think it's good. Great? Probably not but it's at least good. The final boss theme and intro are great for sure and even though the music doesn't stand out too much I still had a good time with the more chill vibes some of the songs had.
Indeed.. this game literally broke the fandom in big half making twisted idiots that want violence, blood, especially swearing it’s just shameful and unbearable for us real sonic fans that want the real family friendly way to beat such sickness….
Lost World for the 3DS is genuinely the worst game I've ever played. I've never hated any game AT ALL before or since I played it. It scarred me as a child because of that one casino stage or whatever it was. Also because if you don't finish all the special stages before beating the game to get Super Sonic, you have to RESTART YOUR SAVE FILE FROM TH BEGINNING TO GET HIM. I cried while playing it and I've never revisited it ever since because of those 2 things.
I completely disagree with Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 3D. While Shadow definitely has its flaws I still consider it a good game and would rather give it a 7/10 or 8/10. And I don't think that the controls are awful either - they are much better than the controls from Heroes and 3D Blast. 3D Blast was the second worst Sonic game I've ever played right after Sonic Spinball (I think it's even worse than 06). The controls suck and the fact that you lose all of these dumb flickies after getting hit once as well as the fact that these birds tend to fly into the lava, other obstacles or enemies so that you lose them right again after getting them back makes the game so frustrating that it is nearly impossible to enjoy playing it.
These were great rapid fire reviews! Please may I ask what the jungle/DnB songs you used in this video (when Sonic music wasn't playing) are? I love them!
Shadow is probably my least favorite game in the… semi main series. It’s a (horrible attempt at) a speedy platformer, so I kinda count it. But would I ever play the game ten times and deal with outright sins against Sonic level design like Lost Impact or the general sluggish mission objectives just to get one “True” ending? Goodness, no. I tried it, and one neutral playthrough is good. Shadow is an android who karate chopped Eggman’s face for all I care, I’m good.
You can critique games you didn't finish. I've played many games, and some I haven't seen to the end because of the lack of engaging design or other factors. In other words, life is short.
To me Boom and Dream Team have the worst soundtracks in the entire series (not counting Chronicles). When making a Sonic OST you should avoid natural chords, always put spicy 7ths, 9ths and 11ths chords, invert them, use bouncy basslines, prefer FM synthesis or wavetable synths over subtractive. Syncopate your drums and melodies as much as possible, use odd time signatures. Make the instrumentation reflect the environment by tying each song's style to how the stage looks, unless its a thematic game like Secret Rings or Black Knight, two songs must never feel that similar. Sonic OST need to have some coolness factor or swag, pop and rock sensibilities and it must feel like it could blend in on the radio. It's called Sonic for a reason, it should sound as cool as its looks. If your Sonic game really need to be atmospherical and moody like Frontiers you could use orchestral and ambient, but even Frontiers has a strong sense of melody, catchyness, textures and flow in its open zones compositions.
I’m kinda biased since I had the storybook games since I was a kid but I actually like motion controls and loved the level system. Top 5 sonic soundtrack and a lot of level replay ability(except for the gimmicks those suck)
I personally love Sonic Lost World so much, both the Wii U and 3DS versions. But I love the 3DS one more for the better controls, boss battles, and levels. I even like the story. I know there are things people hate about them, but I honestly this game is such bliss for me regardless of its flaws. 8.5/10.
Sonic lost world when it's good is better than the WII U version but when it's bad it's worse than it. I have a soft spot for secret rings and when fully upgraded plays relatively well but I completely understand why people don't like it.
The reason y ppl love shadow these days is cus as u know these games R written by ST in japan, who R Japanese, so the game is written wit a Japanese script & localized for the rest of the world the game is bein released in. The localization (much like most of the jp written games) is so poor, inaccurate, & downright insultin to the og script it caused most ppl to think of the story more as goofy & confusin than wut it actually was. A game made to separate the current shadow from the 1 in SA2 so that THAT shadow could stay dead(like he was intended to) in a symbolic way & still have the shadow character/face still utilizable for future stuff without the prior baggage. I won't argue on gameplay even tho I actually think barin a few issues here & there this game I think is all around WAY "better" than either adventure games(& even a little "better" than heroes), however if u're curious there R translations of the og script & these days plenty of vids that go over the actual story(ofc other games had this too). I highly implore checkin them out. Also considerin it was the 1 game u reported to have not finished(even droppin at around the same point as me) I'm shocked LW 3DS is so high. The logic doesn't make sense to me if u sat through the others u thought were "worse". I'm positive that Shadow & the storybook games were considered "mainline" at the time since the effect these have on the series is so important even now. They were even gonna be part of gens if the fact that those games were part of the chosen levels for gens before that came out. Seems they jus didn't have time & didn't want to end up rushin it out. Overall I don't agree wit ur views or rankin here for the most part but I can easily explain how I understand where each point u make comes from. I wouldn't have commented if not for the shadow story comment so sry for the long essay
The ONLY good thing I’ll give Rise of Lyric is they did a good job with the cutscene animations, the characters don’t look so stiff and actually give more body language and expressions rather than just moving their hands standing still like in the main line games
Shadow the Hedgehog and Black Knight are unironically two of my favorite games in the series.
“The soundtrack to Secret Rings is alright…”
But… MUSTARD FLOAT AWAYYYY!
Shadow is mainline. Literally a direct extension of the lore set up in SA2 & the plot in Heroes. In fact Shadow was the last game in the series to maintain the streak of each new Sonic game directly continuing from where the previous game’s story left off.
Sure but these are video games and story isn't the only factor
@@spontman well if thats the case well shadow is mostly based off the adventure formula anyway
@@spontmanI agree, as an ex kingdom hearts fan this is a discussion I've seen time and time again. Should chain of memories be considered mainline? What about coded, 358/2 days? Perhaps DDD, It plays mostly like mainline entries and its right between 2 and 3. And so on and so forth.
Personally I consider ShtH the most pure definition of a spin off, its tone its intentionally as far as the main series they could get, gameplay kinda resembles Heroes but with guns, you don't play as the main character and it even plays around with the canonicity of its own story since it has 11 different endings with 326 possible paths.
Sure, story and character arcs are important, but, in terms of starwars for example, I wouldn't consider Rogue One mainline despite sitting between 3 and 4 and explaining a major plot point.
@@Chibiknux Spot on comment, I find it hilarious that many Sonic fans still think it as mainline even if Sega already called Shadow the Hedgehog a spin-off title on their press release right when the game got first announced in March 2005. Sonic fans really need to do their research and stop living in a bubble.
@@totempoleman7810 FIrstly quit that elitist crap; "Sonic fans need to do their research and quit livin in a bubble" we're literally using our own eyeballs and our own basic logic to determine if it's a spinoff or not.
Just cuz SEGA said its a spinoff (also plz link to me whoever said cuz they may or may not know what a spinoff is) doesn't mean it actually is.
Shadow's gameplay is based off of the adventure games and to a lesser extent heroes, most of the locales are from the main series, story wise it's a sequel to sa2, and it has a vast majority of elements from the previous 3D games like I really don't know what to tell you the frickin game might as well be mainline.
Wario Land is a spinoff, Tails Adventures and Tails Skypatrol are spinoffs
When people praise Shadow the Hedgehog's story they're usually referring to the JP script, it is an entirety different beast than the awful localization.
In particular I think it was Pariah695's "The Story of Shadow the Hedgehog" video that sparked more interest in how the game handles its narrative, consider giving it a watch if you're curious.
Sonic team actually did make sonic unleashed wii and the only dimps member was the sonic rush level designers
I really like this format of short reviews in a 30 minute video. Your videos are always a delight to listen to in the background and this format really engaged me even more.
I’d love to see this format for the 3D Mario games or other series you really like that don’t require a full 30 minute retrospective on. Fantastic work and your opinions are always very interesting to listen to.
I'm not the biggest fan of "Sonic 3D: Flickies Island", but Traveller's Tales is my favourite British game development studio. They used to make games based on Pixar films, and the one for PS1 based on "Toy Story 2" I've studied a lot in my free time because of how well it nails collect-a-thon game design. Released in 1999, a movie-based game essentially perfected a sub-genre whilst "Donkey Kong 64" from another British studio kind of killed it.
Actually Sonic Boom rise of lyric was meant to be a bigger game on it initial launch (on PS4, Xbox one and PC). A lot of concept art, eliminated maps, sections, mechanics and more was revealed years later about the development of this game that personally it's amazing, I love Project Apollo.
Like, the combat was meant to have more variety in moves and the main focus was teamwork (even more than heroes) and the quality of the stages (for what we see in some trailers) was gorgeous.
Holy shit, someone actually gave black knight a proper review.
I recently played Black Knight again and it was a bit frustrating to me. It does everything right, except the gameplay. The game is so linear, its cluttered with all types of usually boring missions, the ranking system is just plain unfair, etc. I like the game overall but, it's definitely not something I'm returning to very often.
If Black Knight had better gameplay it would be one of the best Sonic games
It’s a shame that the parts of the game that can be enjoyed (the story & soundtrack) can be experienced separated from the game for free.
I always thought Erazor sounded like an offended food critic. Which is still hilariously out of place
LOL I CAN HEAR IT
@@spontman It’s even funnier when you compare the Japanese voice. He sounds like a deep voiced anime monster. It fits, and then you go back and “EWWWWW A BLUEEEEE RAT!”
I’m surprised by the positive review for 3D blast. I just didn’t find the gameplay engaging enough to continue past the 1st zone.
Have you played the directors cut?
I really like Unleashed Wii but understand its criticisms. I do agree that the nighttime stages are a step down from the "HD" versions but the daytime stages are actually my favorite out of any 3D Sonic. No joke! They feel the most like the Rush games seeing as they were made by the same developer and they're quite fun to speedrun! I actually prefer using the boost in short bursts at a time as it allows the player to choose the right time to use it rather than just spamming it.
It also sucks that you can't skip the cutscenes which is something that should NEVER happen in any video game ever! Overall it's a top 10 Sonic game for me and I'd even slightly prefer it to SA1! But I still prefer games like Gens as let's not forget, the boost stages, while amazing in both games, are only one half of them and I'll gladly take the other half of gens over both versions of Unleashed any day!
"It sucks that you can't skip cutscenes"
*Me wanting to replay Final Fantasy 10.*
So many versions, yet none of them can skip cutscenes.
That Sonic Boom:ROL intro feels like watching a clip from Skyrim.
Let’s go. I was looking forward to this
I liked the idea of Sonic with a sword, but I was thinking he’d be more powerful and be able to just plow through enemies with the sword while his other moves would still be useful. Instead the homing attack only damages things when you time the swing with it, which is really inconsistent. Meh.
Really like this production. Got a new subscriber for sure
Here my rating for these games (Excluding Sonic Lost World 3DS, Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic Dream Team, which I haven't played yet):
Shadow the Hedgehog: 5/10 No good, not bad, it's just meh... Also the story is intended to be serious and dark, but it ended up being a parody, because you can't really take it seriously with cutscenes as funny like Shadow killing Dr. Eggman with one blow saying: "Goodbye Doctor!"
Sonic and the Secret Rings: 4/10 Visually, the levels are great, the soundtrack is the best, and the story, although it is not one of my favorites, is at least competent, but man, the controls are awful.
Sonic Unleashed Wii: 7/10 Very good, and Daytime Sonic's levels are some of the best of all the boost games. Also, the final boss is way better than the 360/PS3 version.
Sonic and the Black Knight: 6/10 If it weren't for its good story, this game would have passed unnoticed.
Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric: 2/10 Well... I don't have much to tell.
Edit: good video
Secret rings just doesn’t tell you which missions are mandatory, you could probably look them up online, unless you feel that your time is better spent doing something else.
I definitely do lol, but that's good to know
Spontman talks about shadow the peakhog 2005 finally.
Also, it's not the writing that's the problem, it's the GOD AWFUL dubbing that it went through.
It's both
@@BBK113 It's not both.
The original japanese story is really brilliant.
@@virtualashez Can't be when the game's story is literally the opening cutscene and the last story. As to how shadow got there no one knows and that's an issue
@@BBK113 The entire fandom collectively agrees that story #153 - "Together With Maria" is the canon story.
Correction: Xtreme was being developed by STI (Sega Technical Institute), not Sonic Team.
RFR… fun change from your usual vids… it seems like multiple platforms challenge game creators…
1-About 3d blast special stages, if you do them all and get the chaos emeralds you unlock the true final boss
2- I dunno where you been searching, but everytime I see people talking about Shadow the Hedgehog story its always in a negative way 😂
You would be amazed by how many comments I've seen praising Shadow's story lol
@@spontman lol indeed, Im with you on that one. The only part of the story I think is good is the last story, the rest of the game's story is just bad...
Out of all these games I’ve played 2 and finished them, dream team and lost world 3ds. Honestly if you played more of the LW3ds you might’ve rated it lower, I do agree that the controls are a lot better but damn do this stages suck mainly half way to the end, they are so torturous long and tedious and the puzzles get WAY WAY worse that game might be one of the worst sonic games I’ve played especially with the motion control special stages. Dream team was nothing but boring for me, I love the controls and visuals but everything else falls flat for me, music, story, some voice acting, and tedious missions. This game really just feels held back for being a mobile game and other factors. Also great video I’ve seen your content around for a while and it’s great definitely subscribing and sticking around to see more quality content.
I think the only thing I feel the need to make a comment on is Dream Team's ost, I personally think it's good. Great? Probably not but it's at least good. The final boss theme and intro are great for sure and even though the music doesn't stand out too much I still had a good time with the more chill vibes some of the songs had.
So close to 3k!!!
the bad writing in shadow was completely the english localization, play the story again in japanese with subtitles :3
Thank you for tearing apart Shadow. That game ruined my fandom for the series and love for Shadow. Complete cringe fest.
Indeed.. this game literally broke the fandom in big half making twisted idiots that want violence, blood, especially swearing it’s just shameful and unbearable for us real sonic fans that want the real family friendly way to beat such sickness….
Replay ability is huge…
Lost World for the 3DS is genuinely the worst game I've ever played. I've never hated any game AT ALL before or since I played it. It scarred me as a child because of that one casino stage or whatever it was. Also because if you don't finish all the special stages before beating the game to get Super Sonic, you have to RESTART YOUR SAVE FILE FROM TH BEGINNING TO GET HIM. I cried while playing it and I've never revisited it ever since because of those 2 things.
Do you think the boost formula in Generations in from? (In reply to the comment in Dream Team)
I completely disagree with Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 3D. While Shadow definitely has its flaws I still consider it a good game and would rather give it a 7/10 or 8/10. And I don't think that the controls are awful either - they are much better than the controls from Heroes and 3D Blast. 3D Blast was the second worst Sonic game I've ever played right after Sonic Spinball (I think it's even worse than 06). The controls suck and the fact that you lose all of these dumb flickies after getting hit once as well as the fact that these birds tend to fly into the lava, other obstacles or enemies so that you lose them right again after getting them back makes the game so frustrating that it is nearly impossible to enjoy playing it.
sonic unleashe and black knight have better story than shadow 05
When you are going to review the 2D games?
I'm working on it...
@@spontman uwa cool
These were great rapid fire reviews! Please may I ask what the jungle/DnB songs you used in this video (when Sonic music wasn't playing) are? I love them!
All the dnb music I use is by Accelio: youtube.com/@AccelioMusic
Shadow is probably my least favorite game in the… semi main series. It’s a (horrible attempt at) a speedy platformer, so I kinda count it. But would I ever play the game ten times and deal with outright sins against Sonic level design like Lost Impact or the general sluggish mission objectives just to get one “True” ending? Goodness, no. I tried it, and one neutral playthrough is good. Shadow is an android who karate chopped Eggman’s face for all I care, I’m good.
This is stupid. Don't review games you haven't finished.
This is stupid. Don't comment on videos you haven't finished.
You can critique games you didn't finish. I've played many games, and some I haven't seen to the end because of the lack of engaging design or other factors. In other words, life is short.
To me Boom and Dream Team have the worst soundtracks in the entire series (not counting Chronicles). When making a Sonic OST you should avoid natural chords, always put spicy 7ths, 9ths and 11ths chords, invert them, use bouncy basslines, prefer FM synthesis or wavetable synths over subtractive. Syncopate your drums and melodies as much as possible, use odd time signatures. Make the instrumentation reflect the environment by tying each song's style to how the stage looks, unless its a thematic game like Secret Rings or Black Knight, two songs must never feel that similar. Sonic OST need to have some coolness factor or swag, pop and rock sensibilities and it must feel like it could blend in on the radio. It's called Sonic for a reason, it should sound as cool as its looks.
If your Sonic game really need to be atmospherical and moody like Frontiers you could use orchestral and ambient, but even Frontiers has a strong sense of melody, catchyness, textures and flow in its open zones compositions.
I guess if you do party games, you might want to cover the one in the Secret Rings. Otherwise, good small reviews
I’m kinda biased since I had the storybook games since I was a kid but I actually like motion controls and loved the level system. Top 5 sonic soundtrack and a lot of level replay ability(except for the gimmicks those suck)
I personally love Sonic Lost World so much, both the Wii U and 3DS versions. But I love the 3DS one more for the better controls, boss battles, and levels. I even like the story. I know there are things people hate about them, but I honestly this game is such bliss for me regardless of its flaws. 8.5/10.
You should check out the jp sub of shadow, significantly better than the english version.
About time you did this geez for months….
Sonic lost world when it's good is better than the WII U version but when it's bad it's worse than it.
I have a soft spot for secret rings and when fully upgraded plays relatively well but I completely understand why people don't like it.
The reason y ppl love shadow these days is cus as u know these games R written by ST in japan, who R Japanese, so the game is written wit a Japanese script & localized for the rest of the world the game is bein released in. The localization (much like most of the jp written games) is so poor, inaccurate, & downright insultin to the og script it caused most ppl to think of the story more as goofy & confusin than wut it actually was. A game made to separate the current shadow from the 1 in SA2 so that THAT shadow could stay dead(like he was intended to) in a symbolic way & still have the shadow character/face still utilizable for future stuff without the prior baggage. I won't argue on gameplay even tho I actually think barin a few issues here & there this game I think is all around WAY "better" than either adventure games(& even a little "better" than heroes), however if u're curious there R translations of the og script & these days plenty of vids that go over the actual story(ofc other games had this too). I highly implore checkin them out. Also considerin it was the 1 game u reported to have not finished(even droppin at around the same point as me) I'm shocked LW 3DS is so high. The logic doesn't make sense to me if u sat through the others u thought were "worse". I'm positive that Shadow & the storybook games were considered "mainline" at the time since the effect these have on the series is so important even now. They were even gonna be part of gens if the fact that those games were part of the chosen levels for gens before that came out. Seems they jus didn't have time & didn't want to end up rushin it out. Overall I don't agree wit ur views or rankin here for the most part but I can easily explain how I understand where each point u make comes from. I wouldn't have commented if not for the shadow story comment so sry for the long essay
Most of these games I played for roughly the same amount of time. The only one I beat in its entirety for the video was Dream Team.
What background music do you use in your videos?
The ONLY good thing I’ll give Rise of Lyric is they did a good job with the cutscene animations, the characters don’t look so stiff and actually give more body language and expressions rather than just moving their hands standing still like in the main line games