Panasonic GX800 Dolby Vision vs HDR10. Also, 4000-nit Dolby Pulsar!!!
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- We attended a briefing for the Panasonic GX800 4K LED LCD TV at Dolby's London Soho premise, where the Japanese manufacturer demonstrated the superiority of Dolby Vision dynamic metadata vs HDR10 static metadata.
We also visited a Dolby grading suite to look at the Dolby Vision grading workflow using a 4000-nit Dolby Pulsar monitor, as well as a Dolby PRM Grade 1 reference monitor for SDR trim pass.
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Very informative! Great video as always Vincent. I wish Panasonic would come back to the U.S. market, I would trade Samsung for them any day.
Howdy Peeps I am with you. Panasonic seems to be the real deal when it comes to their 4KTVs. I love my LG OLED but I wouldn’t hesitate to try out a high end Panasonic OLED.
@@tjazz5696 me2
That explains a lot for me. Always enjoyed DV on my B8 and now A8 and found HDR many times worse than SDR. I even replayed "Ghost in the Shell" HDR and then SDR and I prefer SDR version. And maybe that's why on Sony Cinema Pro mode HDR the Contrast is default at 90 so the picture won't look washed out. Thanks Vincent for the video. You are the only one who goes into depth regarding TVs so people will actually know the differences and what to expect if they buy a TV.
Shaggy Dw If you’re finding HDR many times worse than SDR, you don’t have something set correctly...
@@gabetrinidad1016 The settings are correct. But as Vincent points out, there are scenes where HDR will blow out parts of the image. SDR can't do that and the dynamic metadata applied on DV makes the scenes look natural. It depends mostly on the scene itself. Like the 0.12 take aside the white vs blue torch, the glass is blown out, again on 2.11 HDR10 is unnecessary over bright, 1.59 again it's a big difference. And it's true that nowadays we have tone mapping applied by the TV for HDR10 but while it can correct some scenes it may also make others worse. It also might depend on how HDR10 content is edited. Seen some HDR10 movies where I couldn't see major differences but nonetheless they were there. I kinda have a trained eye perhaps or I am just overly bothered by the inaccuracies.
Forgot to mention something very important. If you watch DV vs HDR10 under decent amount of light, these differences won't be so big. The contrast in the room will adjust the HDR10 just fine.
Shaggy Dw You are correct, without a doubt, Dolby Vision is superior to HDR10 when it comes to correcting blown out detail. An excellent example of this is the throne room scene in Aquaman. However, I think part of the problem with blown out HDR10 is mastering content above 1000 nits (especially on Sony’s). With that being said... if forced between SDR or HDR10, I’ll take the HDR10 version any day. You can restore some of the detail by setting the contrast between 90-95, and using extended dynamic range (on a Sony). However, if the content is mastered too bright... there is no chance at correction.
@@shaggydw8252 please tell me only this do you watch stuff on LCD LED or Oled?
Because if you look LCD and it's playing the HDR 10 than the backlight will go to max and that is why you see highlights overblown because of blooming that is inherent to LCD technology, not because of content.
And that is why you prefer SDR because you can town down the backlight and when you watch movies in SDR you don't cranck up the backlight I'm I right?
Try the Oled man and you will see the difference,but it's not that big like 10% improvement, and only in 10% scenes.
That's why I still have my 1080p Oled and I compare side by side with my mate 2017 C8 and the difference is not worth that kind of money!
Yeah it's a little brighter and the resolution is naturally better but at my sitting position like 2,5 to 3 meters the difference is not visible. It's get visible at 1,5 meters on 55 inch model so it's simply not worth it while my 1080 Oled still work.
So try changing technology not content format😉
@@MrStatusqwo5 I watch on OLED and I had both the LG and Sony and there was the same effect.
PANASONIC!!! Please come back to the states!! Great job as always!!!
They are barely even sold in europe, not even sweden.
@@terraincognitagaming no problem here in Germany
Whisper buy it from Canada
Just look on Netonnet for Panasonic TV's
@John Hooper Panasonic really struggled in its last few years in the states with its plasmas as you know which was a shame as its final line was simply amazing!! S60 , St60 Vt60 and Zt60 however they were ultra expensive and actually didn't sell well. The St60 sold amazingly well but the flagships struggled as led prices began to fall and were also brighter which looked much better in the very bright show room. All this you already know but if I had to guess they have no desire to be in our market but will remain in the UK where oled is actually cheaper then led.
Vincent’s role playing dungeon ;)
Can we get a video on hdr 10 + vs Dolby vision.
Dolby Vision content is mastered whereas HDR10+ is algorithm based "guesswork". You'll never get to see on HDR10+ what the creators intended ... so what ?
@@marcuscole8796 Do you have proof that HDR10+ dynamic meta data is based on guesswork as you've claimed?
@@darkpoet5880 1. Mastering: you can see it "here" (see link) in the Samsung HDR10+ charts on page 10 to 12: "offline encoder for Bluray or OTT" , "Generation algorithm included in HEVC encoder"...
mile-high.video/files/mhv2018/pdf/day1/1_10_Mandel.pdf
2. Reproduction: furthermore - unlike DV-compatible tvs - HDR10+ capable tvs do not get calibrated and equipped with a specific look-up table for the metadata ... what the tv "does" with the HDR10+ metadata is completely up to the tv-manufacturer ... and not the movie studios.
Both steps - Mastering and Reproduction - are not controlled and therefore just guesswork ... the result MAY eventually look appealing and more "wowing", but it will always be much less accurate than DV.
For HDR10+ benefit you may also watch Vincent's video here on this channel: ruclips.net/video/3-bmH6HN0mY/видео.html
@@marcuscole8796 sorry but that is pure tooling. nothing limits manufactures to unify both approaches and create hdr10+ from DV master.
@@brunogm That's not possible ... not 100% ... because with DV-mastering every single element of a picture can be tone mapped differently ... HDR10+ is capable of just modifying the whole frame.
And btw ... why would you want to do that ? ... first putting a lot of effort (= money) into a superior mastering and then paying for a second step which results in a degraded result.
From what I can tell there is no "tool" to convert DV meta data to any other format ... and there will never be one, because DV metadata is the development of Dolby Labs. and their intellectual property and asset ... which they will not share with Samsung of course :-)
Thank you for your reviews. I'm waiting for the Panasonic GX800 series review to know lag time and refresh rate because I'm thinking about buying it to play games in my Xbox One X. Thanks
Bring back Panasonic TV to US I don’t care how much the price, I’ll buy it!
@Peter Peter Where did you hear that? They left because they just couldn't compete with all the brands, they weren't doing well
They could come back anytime they want but I heard they're waiting to see if they do well in Canada
Hey Vincent just bought the 58hx820 for 300 dollars today black friday with calman calibration included ☺️☺️☺️
The Dolby PRM-4220 is such a wonderful monitor. I'll never forget the first time I saw it and was blown away, even when viewing grades of 16mm film scans. I'm looking forward to see the Pulstar at some point.
I bought the 65' version (tx-65gx810e) 2 weeks ago for 880euro and I'm loving it. Thank you Vincent!
You have a 65-FOOT TV?!?!?
😱😱😱
@@PSYCHOV3N0M Mistyping, you know what I meant...
Wow, finally we are starting to get some more information about Dolby Vision performance ... after it's out for 3 years now. Thanks a lot !
At least it did not disappear.
And i'm still with my AX800... Need those hdr upgrade. Nice job Vincent and Panasonic
I had an ax800. Unfortunately one of my outlets had an issue and sparks started flying out the displayport and the board fried. I loved that tv. Back before hdmi 2.0 graphics cards were out i used the displayport to play games at 60 fps on my sli gtx 780s. It was amazing.
Remember a decade ago when Plasma & LCD were battling for marketshare? Brightness numbers were quoted in the millions. Even though there was no official way of measuring.
Not brightness, contrast was measured as millions to one...if your black is zero, contrast is infinte so 1 nit brightness on an OLED makes the number infinite...also if you had FA local dimming and high brightness you could legitimately claim contrast in millions to one - in certain circumstances...
Interesting. More behind the scenes like this!
Vincent, tell Panasonic Iwould buy this in a second.
Role reversal, hahaha
Captain America: I understood that reference
For every American moaning about Panasonic's TVs not being on sale in the States. They stopped selling their plasmas in the States when the American market moved to led, especially affordable large LEDs. Even today the bulk of the American market is cheap, big, and led. There is no insentive for Panasonic to go back there. The reason they still release their products in Europe is because their led TVs have a market share here, making it easier for them to push oled.
Plasma was starting to lose market share and all companies including Panasonic stopped building them in move to LCD and LED tech. You didn't see other manufactures leaving the country. There was no reason they couldn't have produced led sets and continue to sell them in the states. Your argument makes little sense.
@@theripper121 other manufacturers didn't put a lot of money into plasma. Panasonic did, as shown when they bought technology from pioneer
@@nihilityjoey They put all their money in plasma 10-15 years ago. Plasma died. Are they selling plasmas in other countries?? No they sell LCD's and OLEDS like every other company today. Them dumping their wad in plasma 10-15 years ago is irrelevant to the discussion of them no longer selling in the USA. What does plasma failing as a tech have do with them not selling their current LCD and OLEDs now in the USA??
@@theripper121 Are you a bit slow or something? If you are finding it hard to understand what I'm saying go and bloody look online.
@@nihilityjoey Are you the one that is slow?? Panasonic invested heavy in plasma. You are certainly right about that. That was also 10-15 years ago when plasma was a thing. Here now in 2019 Panasonic now has a line of LED LCD and OLED sets like every other tv supplier in the world. Because plasma failed as a tech 10-15 years ago Panasonic can no never sell sets in the USA?? My point is plasma failed sure but that was 10 years ago. Bringing up the failure of plasma and making that an excuse 10 years later for not selling a single tv in one of the largest markets in the world TODAY is irrelevant. At any time they can sell sets here the failure of plasma is no reason to sell here or not to sell here today in 2019. That's like saying well Sony invested heavily in Rear projection CRT's that failed so they no longer sell tv's in the USA. You don't see how that's not at all relevant today??
Nice..great example of DolbyV vs HDr thanks for vid
I still own a Panasonic plasma, it saddens me that Panasonic doesn’t offer TVs in the United States, 😿
Peter Sonatan you make no sense, 😂. I guess Samsung, Lg, Sony should not make good long lasting TVs. Wow!!
That is actually the most convincing example of the advantages of dynamic metadata compared to static metadata I have seen so far. Have you upgraded your camera because the difference between the screens is clearly visible even on my non HDR capable iPad Pro.
i've never enjoyed a video that's in the dark as much as this
Thanks for DV video examples and info. that Panasonic has a nice picture
Hi have you got a video of any calibration settings I could use please? Struggling to find them anywhere online
Still no review and calibration settings for the Panasonic TX GX800 series? I'm guessing Panasonic doesn't want you to review them as it would reveal the TV's shortcomings and sales don't seem to be good right now.
I wondered that. Vincent has been near these GX800 sets twice now and not reviewed them. He and Panasonic know they will be one of Panasonic main selling products in 2019. And he is also friendly with Panasonic. This tells me they aren't very good sets and Panasonic has asked Vincent not to review them so it doesn't hurt sales.
They've been reviewed?
Will 12 bit panels come in 2020? We been waiting years now
thats a good question!
Its sad but 8k panel are coming @ too low 120hz. Beyond 8k photos the increase in fps is much more needed. 240hz panels please!
@@brunogm 120Hz is good enough for the time being. 12-bit panels are needed to see a bleeding edge color space upgrade in Dolby Vision.
@@PSYCHOV3N0M From the curve of Dolby Vision the limited range is one factor for this. Like interlaced was a legacy problematic aspect , narrow range wastes too much codewords. 10bit full range would be enough to counter dark posterization. The blacker-than-black and superwhites in 8bit format are enough for calibration patterns and noise. But conventional 10bit format requires 4X more codewords for the same region. That is a waste!
OMG! Thank you Vincent! I was thinking about to buy this T.V!
Now i'm very sure to get this!
As always, great video Vincent. Do you know if the SDR deliverable was based on DV 4.0?
“Enjoy a bit of role reversal “ 🤣🤣🤣
#DING
Buy one from Canada people. They sell Panasonic still there. You will also save 35% on the dollar!
Holy crap great video amazing product wow now that's dynamic meta data for you wow def could see the difference here that's what I mean by highlights also the detail in it there is like layers uts beautiful
Come back Panasonic ! My TH-42PX60U plasma just gave up the ghost after 12-13 years and I was surprised not to find an LCD/OLED Panasonic replacement !
Great TV's the old Panny Plasma's, I have one myself which is still working for the moment. I have seen my new TV in the form of the Sony AF9 OLED, the only TV that does it for me from what i see in the shops, I'd start saving if I were you, LED TV's just don't cut it for me after using a great plasma screen for so long.
@@mgsamps thank you for the advise ! I did consider LED for a moment yet I treasure the absolute black levels of the plasma and will definitely purchase an OLED (likely Sony) at some point.
Yes. I can see the difference between the dv and hdr 10.
Best Channel worldwide!!!
Beside that: I sincerely expect the GZW2004, can not wait! When will it finally be available?
Hey, what is the brightest HDR TV on the consumer market right now? In that 2000 or $5000 range? I’m looking for something 75 inches plus. Thank you in advance. I really appreciate all of your videos. You are incredible.
What sound bar would you pair up with the 58' version..mid size room
Looking forward to your GX800 review. Any ETA?
No.
@@hdtvtestShame, but thanks for the reply.
Abdalla Azmi Estimate time of arrival...
I find it quite funny GX550 is not going to support Dolby Vision as I suppose it will be made by Vestel (as FX550 was) which supports DV on many of their sets. As FX550 was more expensive than its counterparts with e.g. Hitachi branding, it is more of product segmentation rather than license cost and technical difficulties.
Will you guys be reviewing the new "Game HDR" for Red Dead Redemption 2? I hear it's quite good now
so when a tv says it supports hdr, it means it has to be one of the two listed in this video? hdr10 or dolby vision?
Which do you prefer between Sony 55XF9005 and Panasonic 55GX810?
Thank you
Hi vincent
I have a question it’s not about this video, my question is when stacked 2 movie projectors together what is happening more brightness or more lumens output?
Do the gx800 and gxw904 have the same technology build in?
When will you get your hands on a GZ2000?
Hi Can this TV also be used as a decent pc monitor? Thanks very much
6:15
Dolby pulsar HDR *VS* Dolby PRM SDR
Great job. panny is my favorite brand.
Sorry this might be a stupid question, but do I have to enable Dolby Vision on the GX800 or is it automatically switched on depending on the content?
will dolby ever make sequel to the prm4200?
Hi Vincent, any plan for the unboxing and in depth review video for the GX800?
Great presentation and explanation. Thank you
Are they using a bias light? I have been thinking about adding that to my setup. 🤔
Great name on that lad.
Könnte mich tot lachen 😂 , hört sich an wie eine Computer Stimme bei einer Hotline . Hammer der Typ .
Please do comparison between LG c9 and Panasonic gz2000 oled TVs
I'm excited for the 40 inch
Wait...Vincent Teoh? Who's that? I think he might be a professional television calibrator.
Great video as allways VinsentCan pls make tcl ec780 review and compare it to gx800 as they are exactly the same price.Plsss
Wish there was a way I can part exchange my Panasonic flagship FZ952 2018 for a GZ2000 flagship 2019 model with Dolby Vision!! If only Panasonic could do a system update with DV on its 2018 model....just wishful thinking I guess!! Either way can't beat Panasonic for their colour accuracy!
Nice Video. Pity I was not there. See you next time.
I've just seen the Dolby Pulsar........WOW!!!!!!!!!!
Hi there, Could anyone who knows about this TV or own it tell me how it handles sport in terms of Dirty Screen Effect, blooming and motion. I am keen to buy this TV but I need to know about these features. I am torn between this and the Sony XF9005 but I was more impressed with the cinematic quality of this TV. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
How to install MX player on this Tav
so which is better?
Looks like the spiritual successor to my DX802 !!!
Would it really be that hard to sale these online to the US?
Mat i Ask tout, Vincent, whats thé démo title? Is it downloadable for personal purpose? Thanks
have been waiting for this
It's always been a top branch so it well be for the near future also ...
Personally I’m fed up with these bloody format wars, why can’t all manufacturers have HDR 10 HDR 10+ or Dolby Vision?....Because as a consumer you’re never entirely sure if you’ve bought the right TV. I say that as I bought a Sony x930e but got annoyed with the blooming and haloing, as it was really distracting when watching a film with black letterbox bars. That TV was great for full screen movies though and had Dolby Vision. In the end I sold the Sony x930e and bought a Samsung Q9FN which had less blooming and haloing, plus the black letterbox bars stayed darker, not perfect, but considerably better. However Samsung won’t invest in Dolby Vision, so that pissed me off, but I’ve still kept it for the reasons stated, plus the fact it’s great for gaming. Luckily I then managed to buy another Sony x930e for another room as I still wanted a good LED TV. However, the bottom line is both of these TV’s don’t totally make me happy and it’s annoying that Samsung haven’t got on board with Dolby Vision, because I do think the Q9FN is a great TV and Dolby Vision would be the icing on the cake for it. I know people may say I should get an OLED, but I can have long gaming sessions and I’m not confident about the technology because of screen burn. I’m not hating on OLED, because I think the picture quality is amazing, but I’d be pissed if I got screen burn on a TV that I’ve shelled out £2000 on.
Dolby Vision probably has an extra cost for licence or something. Kinda stupid we have to pick between 2 types though. And the movie industry seems to mostly be on the side of Dolby Vision.
Does it have 120hz and VRR?
Vincent your great, love all your videos, cheers
How is GX750d compared to g
Gx800 Panasonic
Going to put out the review of the sets anytime soon?
Have it hdmi 2.1 ????
50in GX820B or 43in SAMSUNG Q60R? Mainly for TV and PS4 use. In currys the Panasonic seemed to edge it with picture quality for me but I was showed it by a Panasonic salesman so hard to know if he just showed me what I wanted to see lol
Pana 💙
Please do review of Sony ubp x800m2
Very happy with my two main Panasonics, I tried an 'Award Winning' Samsung a few years back - as a photographer I have a good idea of colours - it went back as it gave everyone a suntan ! Now looking at a new GX800 and the samsungs on display always look great - just WRONG ! Another Pana me thinks...
Panasonic let their plasma owners down by not selling their tvs, especially oleds, to the US market.
They don't owe you anything.
Actually it's because the American market stopped buying their plasmas and started buying cheap big led tvs, that Panasonic stopped selling their TVs there.
@@pistolpete224able they don't owe their loyal customers anything? How else do companies survive if not for regular schmucks like me who keep buying their shit ?
@@nihilityjoey I'm aware. But Samsung also made plasmas but switched to another tech instead of packing their bags and leaving town.
I'm aware that most people but low priced garbage ...but when has that ever not been case?
@@trippplefive samsung and lg made plasmas as cheaper alternatives to their lcds so when lcds became cheaper they switched. Pioneer's and Panasonic's tv divisions however were built around plasma technology for their superior visuals as high end solutions. Then people in the 2010s stopped caring about televisions so they were not buying based on image quality anymore but on price. And that's where the Koreans shine. This shift from quality to quantity is also evident in the switch from cds and blu rays to internet services.
When are you going to do a review on the LG Nano?
Man do I have a feeling Vincent secretly has an underground porn channel
Think I’ve seen him on Xvideos
Vincent if you read this, mate ofcourse I’m joking ... love your videos. Waiting for full LG 2019 tv analysis
so is this going to be the equivalent to sonys x90f but at a smaller price?
It's only edge lit with minimal dimming zones. Panasonic had stated 500 nits brightness. VA panel obviously. Tested by Dutch RUclips channel which had it at only 400 nits, but a good 93% DCI P3 colour gamut. So might not be as good value for a entry mid level range, depending on price? Waiting on other reviews to confirm specs though.
What a fantastic looking television
Good job
I Love the glossy black Display
I thought this was Vincent? Who is Richard Gamma?
Panasonic hasnt been sold in sweden for like 10 years.
Damn it-why no Panasonic in the US?
i want to see vincent reviewing the GZ2000 oled, forget the lcd's. Will be a very long wait for that.
F****ng love you Vincent.
They were 2 different images for the blowtorch scene
Dan W they’re both fed the same signal
@@experiment54 look at the white reflection over the picture frame on the bottom of the glass
Dan W looks like they are both connected to the same source to me. Using a splitter cable or dual output.
Isn’t the 75”+ Samsung Q950R 4000 nits?
Jon Snow No. Not on 10% window at D65 white point.
Can someone explain to me what the scene by scene and frame by frame meta data actually means? I mean the difference between the two. In my head, it sounds like laziness if some uses a scene by scene difference in the HDR vs a frame by frame. Or I'm I missing something here. Why would it be a scene by scene difference in the HDR when it can be frame by frame?
The director or cinematographer, and in many cases the film studio, will decide if a Dolby Vision deliverable will be scene by scene or frame by frame. Frame by frame, requires more time, so more money.
Dynamic Metadata, is like having a programmed audio equalizer for video. DV gets you deep blacks, whites, highlights, color saturation boost, shadow detail that changes scene by scene or frame by frame.
This makes sure, that no matter the scene or shot, detail is always retained, from the brightest display to the least(with dynamic tone mapping).
@@TheCrucialQ Great and easy to understand explanation ... thanks
@@TheCrucialQ Thanks for your explanation.
It's paused at different moments at in the first clip :/
Panasonic needs to reinvent their naming scheme. The first thing that pops up after searching for "Panasonic GX800" is... Panasonic Lumix GX900 camera.
gxw or gwx
That's because you forgot the TX. It's Panasonic TX GX800. They always seem to have a TX in there. Or search for GWX800 as its called in other European countries.
Panasonic TV = High Qualität 👍🏻🇯🇵
6:09 Omg Vincent ! How are you able to speak this fast.
Vincent is a Dolby human
super vidéo un coucou de France
In the UK and My aunt has this Panasonic and my god Its dissapointing, the bleed is awful, the sound even after messing around with so many settings remains tinny and poor and the HDR is nowhere near my T8000 Samsung.
Shitt.. This video got over so soon.. I was watching dumbstruck as you were explaining 😍