Am I the only one who doesn't care how thick a TV is? Sure, I don't want it to be 12" thick/deep but if it was 3" or 4" from top to bottom and yielded significant picture quality improvements, I'd be on that right away.
Same. I dont understand why TV's went through a "we must make super slim TV's" phase. Look at old CRT TV's that we had back in the day. They were never a problem. Panasonic so need to get rid of edgelit TV's and go back to making FALD.
Picture quality is all that matters and honestly I think a thicker TV is always going to at advantage when it comes to producing life like images. Look at mastering monitors for example!
@Dreamstate I don't think many could go back to something as thick as a CRT (nor could I) but what about 4" or 5" thick from top to bottom and still wall-mountable?
It's amazing seeing a screen like this that is both 'bright' and 'dark' at the same time. Yeah, hopefully this does trickle down to consumer markets, as the combination is very impressive with HDR.
Thank you sir for presenting the Megatron. Very interesting indeed as dual lcd is gaining momentum....just surprised that it doesn’t hit 2000 nits territories as a dual Lcd zd9 or q90r will be nice...still mini and micro led seem to have the edge but will be watching this closely indeed
Would love to see you do something on using smart tv's as PC monitors. Lots of people looking for information that isnt collated into one place, so in turn is hard to find. About specs, 8 bit or 10 bit panels, how to properly set them up for use with the GPU, best use of HDR in windows. You get the picture. Keep up the great vids.
I, in fact use a 1080p, 37" Panasonic TV as a computer monitor. Works great. Sharp image, high contrast ratio, low latency. However, the thing is now 8 years old (and going strong), and it may need to be replaced soon. I'd put my bets on another Panasonic.
@@scholardeville For me personally I'm not doing too bad after a lot of research, but would be great to hear him do info on the new tvs with hdmi 2.1,how they do with their low input lag, hdr, refresh rates etc and compare their specs to monitors as the lines blur more and more between the two. Also would like to see info on madvr and his recommended settings for best quality, especially interesting as he knows about colour calibration.
Alright strap yourself in, this is what I've learned these past 6 months. All displays are 49 inch, as I was getting into 4K tv for a desktop monitor replacement instead of using four 1080p screens, you can use software to split the screens into 4 virtual monitors in windows or use window management like Eizo Screenslicer or the one that comes with LG's and Samsung's ultrawide monitors.Also I somewhat doubt this is a subject Vincent will ever dig into as he is largely concerned with movie reproduction but but a graphic designer and the type of processing required for each has some very important differences where one allows for a certain error margin from pixel to pixel but the other does not, down to the SUB pixel. Things that apply to all the high end tv's I've owned this year: For windows depending on your graphics card you can run 10 or 12 bit color via DP to HDMI. Motion is very good if you ensure and I mean really ensure to disable most of the post processing. I.E. Set the monitor to GRAPHICS mode if it has one, often the Game mode still includes some image enhancements and sharpening depending on the TV. Be sure to get rid of these in-depth in settings for the respective tv. I found the Sony's graphics mode to be the least BS of all I've tested this year. Features like Blackframeinsertion help a lot on the motion and cleans up the image and eliminates ghosting very efficiently. Though they have different names on each TV so dig into settings for this. Ensure that HDMI setting is set to high bandwidth on the TV to display true 4:4:4 chroma color or text will look very bad. Windows can get very confused and set your scaling to 200%, you probably don't want this if you want to use the native realestate a 4K display offers in this size. Latency is 20 - 30ms on most of these which is decent enough for normal use, but not if you're a high rank competetive e-sports player. Generally speaking all screens can be calibrated into 95% perfection nowadays. Don't worry too much about colors, purchase a calibrating decide on Amazon and you're good. Unfortunately running Windows 10 in HDR mode does not play well with any of the screens as the PC standards for HDMI are still a jumbled mess compared to PS4 and Xbox One which use tv standards. HOWEVER you can leave out running Windows itself in HDR and simply enable it in the games themselves and they will send the HDR signal from their own software in spite of Win 10. This even makes HDR work on Windows 7. (Tested with SEKIRO: Shadoes Die Twice on Windows 7 Steam.) First one up is LG 49 SM8600This is an IPS TV resulting in great viewing angles and color accuracy. However the weakness came from the backight bleed, particularly at angles where the corners simply blew out anything displayed on them. This was with brightness set to minimum and blackframe insertion. Perhaps this will bother you, or maybe it won't. To me it became unbearable after some time and I moved on. Next is Sony 49 XF900VA by default can display grey-ish colors as brighter than expected, but blacks will be intensely dark and far surpass IPS darkness. Viewing angles will distort color and introduce very light backlight bleed or reveal blue clouding, but largely easy to ignore, whereas the IPS bleed is easily 10 times more distracting as it makes certain content hard to even see.Overall I'm a believer in VA.XF900 has the best colors of the bunch when viewed head-on and without FALD or other backlight tricks the nicest "default" panel. However my unit suffered from an irregularity where the subpixel rendering would display artifacts as if I wasn't running in 4:4:4, the issue however would disappear if I set the TV into another mode than graphics or game but that defeats the purpose of the screen as now it will begin to process to some degree (even if you disable them all) and introduce lag up to 50ms where it becomes noticable. Samsung Q70RVA again and as expected very nice color reproduction. However the Samsung's weaknesses are inability to reduce brightness enough for a dark room environment and halo effect from the local dimming even when trying to fine tune it. The gamut also appeared slightly higher than expected even when calibrating multiple times, it seesm Samsung is comfortable raising gamma internally to give the impression of a brighter display even if it results in an inaccurate image. Vincent actually talks about this in one of his controversial videos about Samsung in general. Unfortunately local dimming also cannot be disabled which was the killing blow for me, as I enjoyed the color themselves, the lack of backlight bleed thanks to VA. I rather have no local dimming if it just results in inaccuracy. Sony XF850Strangely, this is the winner. It has largely a similar panel to the XF900 but without the subpixel error. There is no local dimming so I don't have to worry about halo effect which could be especially annoying when it activates on something as small as your mouse pointer on screen. No backlight bleed, the screen can become very dark and has blackframe insertion. Only weakness is colorshift at different viewing angles but since I now have it on my desk I sit right in front of it. The big takeaway: You can't rely on text and specs written online, as even panels that are the exact same type can demonstrate completely different results in practical use. Also we are doing something with the screens that are a bit more extensive than what even Vincent is asking for in terms of accuracy, No movie will be displaying subpixel detail at 4:4:4 chroma so this is a high barrier to surpass, this is something that will only be relevant when displaying pixel accurate text and graphical elements.I hope this covers some of the stuff if there's more just ask.
@@scholardeville Interesting stuff and appreciate you took the time to write it. I do run my set up a bit different however. I use RGB 8bit Full, my screen can only do 8 bit with frame rate control to push for the billion colours so not native 10bit. Apparently windows 10 is rendered using rgb and all programs so when using 444 the gpu has to convert the colour space on the fly and under 444 chroma I can only get 8bit limited and the picture quality between rgb full and chroma 444 is hardly any different to my eye. Also apparently most stuff like movies and tv shows are done in 420 anyway. So my current setting is RGB Full 8bit and the tv set to the correct black level. I also use madvr which does some form of colour conversion too. Apart from that I dont use pc mode on the tv I actually use and make use of the filters on the tv such as contrast boosters, slight sharpening and have adjusted the hdr rec 2086 wcg strength slider up a notch to improve specular hdr lights, the input lag is pretty unnoticeable, even when using a blue tooth game pad on top of it. Madvr when playing a hdr file will automatically switch windows into hdr mode so no messing with the ugly toggle and washed out desktop. Also have a hevc codec from ms store u have to pay for to enable hdr and 4k with netflix app and over all I'm very happy with picture quality in all scenarios. Bit of info on rgb v 444 forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416
yeah but the problem /w stacking 2 layers of lcd on top of each other that now you get AT MOST 25% effciency which means backlight needs to overdriven and most of the light gets lost before it comes out of the display also curious how it affects viewing angles and pixel response,
This is an awesome tv and an amazing answer to the OLED. As an owner of multiple Pioneer Kuro's and a Sharp Elite PRO 70", this Panasonic looks very appealing. Thanks Vincent!
@Alex Gonzalez: I always wanted to get my hands on a Panny ZT60, but cannot find any on the used market. I've seen one or two in my area over the last couple of years, but the timing was never right. I imagine it compares fairly well to a Kuro, although I know for a fact that it cannot match the Kuro in black level and overall contrast. That said, I'm sure it does other things just as well if not a little better. I've avoided OLED because of burn in and the motion processing, where plasma clearly has the advantage. The Megacon technology looks promising, but only time will tell. I'm still in love with my Sharp Elite even though it's an L.E.D. but at the end of the day the contrast and black levels are out of this world good.
The VT60 and ZT60 do match the Kuro in contrast and contrast. The VT60 can be volt nodded to produce even deeper blacks though not sure about the Panasonic's though. Before Pioneer went under they unveiled an infinite contrast Plasma tv back in 08/09 but with the advent of 4k that killed all Plasmas.
@@MrRaitzi hisense don't have the tech power or knowledge to pull it off. similar to their fald sets and local dimming algorithms being a few gens behind.
It’s a professional monitor, meant for high-end movies and TV shows. The only OLED that would be on its level would be Sony’s 31” mastering OLED monitor. Sony recently upgraded it to its newer mastering monitor, which uses the dual layer LCD technology.
Damn u Panasonic , u better sell these in United States when u get that price down. Ps Enough with the wide angle. I want the best picture. Please Panasonic , dont do what Sony did after the beautiful Z9d. Love the video. Totally thinking transformers with that name .
If you don't like Vincent or give him a thumbs down, you're outright an asshole... This man is intelligent, real, a great communicator and a character. Humanity needs more people like Vincent! Thank you Vincent for sharing with us!
So how long do we have to wait until a 55 inch consumer version can be purchased for $2k? Im guessing mini LED is going to be our best alternative to OLED as both dual layer LCD and micro LED seem like they're a ways off to being affordable to the general market.
Most people don't watch in perfect darkness so I think this technology is ideal for home use. If they can find a way to make it easier/cheaper to produce this will be the TV to get.
@@RobertK1993 , companies stopped producing 3D televisions even when the technology (OLED) just started to make quality 3D picture available. I really liked those 2016 LG 4K OLEDs' 3D reproductions. Sharp, crystal clear 3D images from all viewing angle, without any ghosting or such issues... (The reason why less and less people bought 3D TVs from the beginning of 2010, was the not proper 3D pictures most of those could provide. So the buyers were not impressed at all.) It is a really bad thing that all the companies decided no longer create 3D televisions at that point. As the technologies in television making has been even more advanced since then, it would be great if they changed their mind, and produce some really really good 3D televisions for now. I"m pretty much sure that a lot of people (incl. myself) would buy those...
What would you recommend for best picture accuracy a d quality for someone on a budget? In the US, btw. Everything seems so expensive and I am also confused about the numerous hdr formats and HDMI 2.1
This technology looks good for gaming ? I cant wait to have a gaming monitor capable of incredible contrast... 1000:1 is bad and VA monitor right now have too much ghosting... :(
Speak for yourself, bub. I use TVs as my PC monitors, because ~30 inches is laughably small once you've had 42+ for a decade as I have. It's just like how a user of such monitors would regard an old-school 17 inch screen -- likely with sneering contempt. But 55 is about the largest possible screen I could conceivably handle as a desktop display. There are limits. TVs give me size, quality, HDR, and now they're even starting to provide Freesync. Sticking with traditional sizes is like keeping your flip phone: Sure, it works, but... there are inescapable disadvantages.
@@Asterra2 i used tvs as monitor for a while. i think 40" is the perfect size. 52 is completely unusable as a monitor, even if i push it as far back in my 1 meter deep desk as i can. but tvs have tons of disavantages, too, which is why i've been back to a monitor for 4 years. it's a 34" ultrawide. smallest size i found usable was 27", but i have to use it a lot closer than i used my 40".
@@GraveUypo I'm using a 55" right now. I'd say that is the limit, at least for the distance I view it at. I think to make an argument against a large size like that is to make one against VR goggles. You really never go back once you've done it. When I watch, say, a storm chasing video on RUclips in 4K, I get a sense of scale from the wide FOV that is normally *impossible.* It's like an epiphany, to realize that those small video rectangles were actually originally most of a person's field of view and the tornado is gigantic. Is 55" too large for a desktop? I'm here to tell you it is not. Hell, I'm arguing that you don't get the most out of 4K without a setup like mine.
@@Asterra2 vr sucks. 55 is only good if you're at least 2 meters away from the screen, otherwise you can't see the entire screen all at once which renders its size moot in everything but games (in those you can use a insanely high fov to focus what's important in the center and simulate peripheral vision with the large size but still meh)
Not really; a modern enthusiast who values aesthetics (which is a lot) in mind would pick the OLED; especially the wallpaper/rolling models. This will be more for pros for a while. Keep in mind that LG economy of scale got a DRAMATIC increase with their new plant. A LG OLED C9 destroys modern monitors attempting to match its picture quality being 2.6 times cheaper usually. Micro-LED is 6 times cheapter and this thing will probably be tens of thousands of dollars.
Gabo H Dual cell has been used for reference monitors for ages and still haven’t succeeded flagship reference OLED monitors (HDR making that more nuanced)
Gabo H Dual LCD isn’t close to being able to be mass produced. There’s a reason why you don’t see one in the consumer market Also note for high-end TV market to THEN trickle down to mainstream, you absolutely need enthusiast support just like GPUs & other high-end tech hardware. That’s why LG’s $1200 OLED HDMI 2.1 TVs have DESTROYS $4000+ QLED & OLED monitors today + the high-end TV & reference monitor market overwhelming support OLED leading to lower costs for all. Considering that info, it’s extremely telling long term pro support has lead to nothing important or noteworthy associated with Dual LCD monitors & TVs for consumers OLED burn-in is extremely exaggerated-especially with modern OLED TVs & monitors that turn off when you’re not there.
Gabo H QLED sales aren’t more than OLED. Samsung are TV leaders in low-end, mainstream market, not high-end TV market. high-end TV market is dominated by OLED. Samsung CTO literally admitted this (reputable sources like AnandTexh circulated this) and are creating QOLED panels this past year as a result. And it makes sense; LG’s OLED 2019 full HDMI 2.1 TVs this past year alone DOA’d an overwhelming amount of TVs & Monitors-including the ones that used the same panel they supplied for third-party TVs & Monitors. All that said, You don’t seem to understand the market, the enthusiasts are critical for monitor tech be cheaply available for all. That’s simply how the display market works (just like GPUs)
How thick is that 55" tv? If it's more than an 1.2 inches thick, I'll just wait for mini-led to mature a bit. I don't care how good the picture is. If it hangs on my wall like a brick, I'm out.
I've always wanted to have that Sony BVM-HX310 at 55" size because it looked the best amongst all the OLEDs and it even looks slightly better than QD-OLED so I can finally have it at 55" from Panasonic that looks even more beautiful than the Sony BVM-HX310. :) But Sony got OLED version of Reference Studio Mastering Monitor that Panasonic should also get in production it. :P
South Korea companies lead the TV technology (OLED, QLED, QD OLED) and Japanese companies struggle to catch up, Chinese companies take the middle to low price sector with basic LCD, LED technology with added value such a 4K, android tv etc
I thouht to ask direct to VICENT: LG B8 HAS THE SAME BLACK FRAME INSERTION THAN LG C8? DIFFENRENCE IS IN IMAGE PROCESSING, IT MEANS BOTH HAVE THE SAME COLOR GAMUT.... IT WILL HELP ME TO DECIDE WHITC ONE ILL BYE.
The new late 2019 Hisense is doing that. Getting rid of the X-wide screen filter layer and using a layer of LEDs in place of it. Around $50,000 for a second layer of LEDs?
The second layer is not an LED. LED is used for backlighting. The second layer is a filter, on a per pixel level, that blocks the amount of light that the LED is producing, thus simulating an OLED and getting very deep blacks.
It's an IPS LCD panel which is usually 1ms response time these days. It is essentially an OLED killer when they can get the price down to consumer mass market. For now all we can do is dream. I think Micro LED TVs is the way to go and the future.
Yeah but in the long run it'll drop down faster than oled.LG screwed themselves with oled in the fact that they spent so much development time and money on it to the point as to why that can't drop prices any further on current oled panels. On top of not finding newer ways of cutting manufacturing costs. Panasonic is a much smarter company when it comes to r&d and manufacturing costs compared to LG.
No. The second filter blocks the light from the LED, on a per pixel level, but it does not block all light. The advantage of LCD is that it does not have an ABL, like OLED, thus producing much brighter average picture levels.
An idiot in a racing car The advantages are that this technology provides almost the same level of deep blacks as an OLED but with the average picture level brightness of a top-end LCD panel.
So, when do we see this sub 2/3K price point.. Consumers want this for HomeTheater too. Since this is LCD tech, imho.. Panasonic should make a push for the US market BEFORE micro-LED takes off to get that solid foot hold first, else I think they might lose their window of opportunity to MicroLED. #LovePanasonic
So sad that Panasonic stopped supplying in the US. Also, I guess the second thing you would not say "no" to having in a bigger size would be your bank account right? Right? *wink*
One crappy 65-inch LCD TV is 100 Euro. Why can't be made domestic use dual layer LCDs not at 100X2 but at 1000 or 2000 Euro? Not 65 but 55-inch at least?
Too bad its semi-glossy. Coating like that ruins image quality, because it traps light so real life contrast is reduced (not the measured one). Also, pixels are distorted, making the image dirty and reducing clarity. Most people are not conscious of this fact, hence why we have a very sad matte coating monitor market with few exceptions. Glossy coating is always better when image quality is top priority. Matte coating is good for high lit office space, nothing else. This is even more important when 8k TVs go mainstream.
This 1000x. I do admit though that glare or reflections can easily be annoying on a complete mirror-like, glossy screen, so I understand where they're coming from when adding these anti-glare coatings. Not an easy choice to make...
@@marcfavell Brightness is not an issue in a dark room. Most films are mastered at 2k so 4k is redundant and HDR at times just alters the colour temperature. No tv today matches a plasma for motion clarity that in itself is a major contributing factor.. Nothing worse than motion judder for ruining a cinematic experience.
@@cp070476 4K is not redundant at all very noticeable but HDR and wide colour gamut makes all the difference more so then resolution, but HDR does depend on the signal though
I just wish something like this would come to the consumer market rather sooner than later. As nice as the OLED is, it's not nice very long sadly. OLED owner with burn-in and some other issues. And that's by babysitting the damn thing.
Maybe not? One high end LCD tv is like $3000, this one has 2 LCD screens so maybe double the cost for the parts, and tack on 10k for “r&d surcharge”. Would be okay at 16k per TV. I still wouldn’t but it till it’s on sale for 3k 😂
"i'm not the dark knight". That's exactly what the dark knight would say.
Am I the only one who doesn't care how thick a TV is? Sure, I don't want it to be 12" thick/deep but if it was 3" or 4" from top to bottom and yielded significant picture quality improvements, I'd be on that right away.
Same. I dont understand why TV's went through a "we must make super slim TV's" phase. Look at old CRT TV's that we had back in the day. They were never a problem. Panasonic so need to get rid of edgelit TV's and go back to making FALD.
Plasma tvs were a good example of 'Thick enough' for good quality.
Picture quality is all that matters and honestly I think a thicker TV is always going to at advantage when it comes to producing life like images. Look at mastering monitors for example!
Picture quality is only thing I care about.
@Dreamstate I don't think many could go back to something as thick as a CRT (nor could I) but what about 4" or 5" thick from top to bottom and still wall-mountable?
Haha, love Vincent! His double entendres are on point😂
His casual execution of them is absolutely flawless
Panasonic is quietly bringing the heat with tvs. Panasonic must be the most underrated TV brand these days.
No, hisense brings this to the consumers.. allready.. This is not for consumers..
That tumbler reinforces my love of Panasonic even further.
First time I've heard of dual lcd. Thanx for explaining it Vincent; sounds intriguing.
My favorite video so far.
Panasonic is future.
It's amazing seeing a screen like this that is both 'bright' and 'dark' at the same time. Yeah, hopefully this does trickle down to consumer markets, as the combination is very impressive with HDR.
I don’t think i’ve ever seen you so excited Vincent.
Thank you sir for presenting the Megatron. Very interesting indeed as dual lcd is gaining momentum....just surprised that it doesn’t hit 2000 nits territories as a dual Lcd zd9 or q90r will be nice...still mini and micro led seem to have the edge but will be watching this closely indeed
ZD9 is not a Dual LCD...
@@YavNe never said it was. I meant at the time introducing this dual panel technology to a zd9 or q90r…now, Things moved on
Would love to see you do something on using smart tv's as PC monitors. Lots of people looking for information that isnt collated into one place, so in turn is hard to find. About specs, 8 bit or 10 bit panels, how to properly set them up for use with the GPU, best use of HDR in windows. You get the picture. Keep up the great vids.
I, in fact use a 1080p, 37" Panasonic TV as a computer monitor. Works great. Sharp image, high contrast ratio, low latency. However, the thing is now 8 years old (and going strong), and it may need to be replaced soon. I'd put my bets on another Panasonic.
I've gone through four high end 4K tv's as a display solution this year alone. Including IPS, FALD, VA. What do you want to know?
@@scholardeville For me personally I'm not doing too bad after a lot of research, but would be great to hear him do info on the new tvs with hdmi 2.1,how they do with their low input lag, hdr, refresh rates etc and compare their specs to monitors as the lines blur more and more between the two. Also would like to see info on madvr and his recommended settings for best quality, especially interesting as he knows about colour calibration.
Alright strap yourself in, this is what I've learned these past 6 months.
All displays are 49 inch, as I was getting into 4K tv for a desktop monitor replacement instead of using four 1080p screens, you can use software to split the screens into 4 virtual monitors in windows or use window management like Eizo Screenslicer or the one that comes with LG's and Samsung's ultrawide monitors.Also I somewhat doubt this is a subject Vincent will ever dig into as he is largely concerned with movie reproduction but but a graphic designer and the type of processing required for each has some very important differences where one allows for a certain error margin from pixel to pixel but the other does not, down to the SUB pixel.
Things that apply to all the high end tv's I've owned this year: For windows depending on your graphics card you can run 10 or 12 bit color via DP to HDMI. Motion is very good if you ensure and I mean really ensure to disable most of the post processing. I.E. Set the monitor to GRAPHICS mode if it has one, often the Game mode still includes some image enhancements and sharpening depending on the TV. Be sure to get rid of these in-depth in settings for the respective tv. I found the Sony's graphics mode to be the least BS of all I've tested this year.
Features like Blackframeinsertion help a lot on the motion and cleans up the image and eliminates ghosting very efficiently. Though they have different names on each TV so dig into settings for this.
Ensure that HDMI setting is set to high bandwidth on the TV to display true 4:4:4 chroma color or text will look very bad.
Windows can get very confused and set your scaling to 200%, you probably don't want this if you want to use the native realestate a 4K display offers in this size.
Latency is 20 - 30ms on most of these which is decent enough for normal use, but not if you're a high rank competetive e-sports player.
Generally speaking all screens can be calibrated into 95% perfection nowadays. Don't worry too much about colors, purchase a calibrating decide on Amazon and you're good.
Unfortunately running Windows 10 in HDR mode does not play well with any of the screens as the PC standards for HDMI are still a jumbled mess compared to PS4 and Xbox One which use tv standards. HOWEVER you can leave out running Windows itself in HDR and simply enable it in the games themselves and they will send the HDR signal from their own software in spite of Win 10. This even makes HDR work on Windows 7. (Tested with SEKIRO: Shadoes Die Twice on Windows 7 Steam.)
First one up is LG 49 SM8600This is an IPS TV resulting in great viewing angles and color accuracy. However the weakness came from the backight bleed, particularly at angles where the corners simply blew out anything displayed on them. This was with brightness set to minimum and blackframe insertion. Perhaps this will bother you, or maybe it won't. To me it became unbearable after some time and I moved on.
Next is Sony 49 XF900VA by default can display grey-ish colors as brighter than expected, but blacks will be intensely dark and far surpass IPS darkness. Viewing angles will distort color and introduce very light backlight bleed or reveal blue clouding, but largely easy to ignore, whereas the IPS bleed is easily 10 times more distracting as it makes certain content hard to even see.Overall I'm a believer in VA.XF900 has the best colors of the bunch when viewed head-on and without FALD or other backlight tricks the nicest "default" panel. However my unit suffered from an irregularity where the subpixel rendering would display artifacts as if I wasn't running in 4:4:4, the issue however would disappear if I set the TV into another mode than graphics or game but that defeats the purpose of the screen as now it will begin to process to some degree (even if you disable them all) and introduce lag up to 50ms where it becomes noticable.
Samsung Q70RVA again and as expected very nice color reproduction. However the Samsung's weaknesses are inability to reduce brightness enough for a dark room environment and halo effect from the local dimming even when trying to fine tune it. The gamut also appeared slightly higher than expected even when calibrating multiple times, it seesm Samsung is comfortable raising gamma internally to give the impression of a brighter display even if it results in an inaccurate image. Vincent actually talks about this in one of his controversial videos about Samsung in general. Unfortunately local dimming also cannot be disabled which was the killing blow for me, as I enjoyed the color themselves, the lack of backlight bleed thanks to VA. I rather have no local dimming if it just results in inaccuracy.
Sony XF850Strangely, this is the winner. It has largely a similar panel to the XF900 but without the subpixel error. There is no local dimming so I don't have to worry about halo effect which could be especially annoying when it activates on something as small as your mouse pointer on screen. No backlight bleed, the screen can become very dark and has blackframe insertion. Only weakness is colorshift at different viewing angles but since I now have it on my desk I sit right in front of it.
The big takeaway: You can't rely on text and specs written online, as even panels that are the exact same type can demonstrate completely different results in practical use. Also we are doing something with the screens that are a bit more extensive than what even Vincent is asking for in terms of accuracy, No movie will be displaying subpixel detail at 4:4:4 chroma so this is a high barrier to surpass, this is something that will only be relevant when displaying pixel accurate text and graphical elements.I hope this covers some of the stuff if there's more just ask.
@@scholardeville Interesting stuff and appreciate you took the time to write it. I do run my set up a bit different however. I use RGB 8bit Full, my screen can only do 8 bit with frame rate control to push for the billion colours so not native 10bit. Apparently windows 10 is rendered using rgb and all programs so when using 444 the gpu has to convert the colour space on the fly and under 444 chroma I can only get 8bit limited and the picture quality between rgb full and chroma 444 is hardly any different to my eye. Also apparently most stuff like movies and tv shows are done in 420 anyway. So my current setting is RGB Full 8bit and the tv set to the correct black level.
I also use madvr which does some form of colour conversion too. Apart from that I dont use pc mode on the tv I actually use and make use of the filters on the tv such as contrast boosters, slight sharpening and have adjusted the hdr rec 2086 wcg strength slider up a notch to improve specular hdr lights, the input lag is pretty unnoticeable, even when using a blue tooth game pad on top of it. Madvr when playing a hdr file will automatically switch windows into hdr mode so no messing with the ugly toggle and washed out desktop. Also have a hevc codec from ms store u have to pay for to enable hdr and 4k with netflix app and over all I'm very happy with picture quality in all scenarios.
Bit of info on rgb v 444 forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416
This channel deserves more subscribers
vincent just *came* into the panasonic booth. Then he walked in
Are you sure that's a 55" LCD display, and not a window to the outside world?
yeah but the problem /w stacking 2 layers of lcd on top of each other that now you get AT MOST 25% effciency which means backlight needs to overdriven and most of the light gets lost before it comes out of the display
also curious how it affects viewing angles and pixel response,
its still hitting 1000nits plus
@@ffdfdfdfdfdfdfdf 2 % or 10 %, or full field white ???
Amazing TV, amazing Vincent as always. Loved the presentation!
There is a 65 dual-cell lcd from hisense on IFA. Can you make a vídeo about it?
No 55" version from Hisense is bitterly disappointing.
I never saw Vincent so exited! There was love in the Air!^^
But MegaCon for MegaMon! :*(
Last time he was like that it was with Sony's RGB OLED professional screen, but that's cheating!
This is an awesome tv and an amazing answer to the OLED. As an owner of multiple Pioneer Kuro's and a Sharp Elite PRO 70", this Panasonic looks very appealing. Thanks Vincent!
I still have my Panasonic vt60. 60inch
@Alex Gonzalez: I always wanted to get my hands on a Panny ZT60, but cannot find any on the used market. I've seen one or two in my area over the last couple of years, but the timing was never right. I imagine it compares fairly well to a Kuro, although I know for a fact that it cannot match the Kuro in black level and overall contrast. That said, I'm sure it does other things just as well if not a little better. I've avoided OLED because of burn in and the motion processing, where plasma clearly has the advantage. The Megacon technology looks promising, but only time will tell. I'm still in love with my Sharp Elite even though it's an L.E.D. but at the end of the day the contrast and black levels are out of this world good.
The VT60 and ZT60 do match the Kuro in contrast and contrast. The VT60 can be volt nodded to produce even deeper blacks though not sure about the Panasonic's though. Before Pioneer went under they unveiled an infinite contrast Plasma tv back in 08/09 but with the advent of 4k that killed all Plasmas.
Proof that LCD tech is constantly evolving regardless of what some Oled fanboys will tell you.
Waiting for the trickle-down... 👍😎
Hisese ULED XD comes 2020. Same technology. Promised to be cheaper than OLED.
@@MrRaitzi Hisense have quality control issues
@@MrRaitzi hisense don't have the tech power or knowledge to pull it off. similar to their fald sets and local dimming algorithms being a few gens behind.
The nature footage in beginning is National Park Plitvička Jezera in Croatia.
The technology is similar to the one used in "ULED XD"
And the price will not be prohibitive for a common living room.
that stand is so minimalistic I NEED IT
It will be 1000$ sir.
/s
loving the gags …..how does it stack up against a top Oled?
1.000 nits full field vs 150 nits
It’s a professional monitor, meant for high-end movies and TV shows. The only OLED that would be on its level would be Sony’s 31” mastering OLED monitor. Sony recently upgraded it to its newer mastering monitor, which uses the dual layer LCD technology.
Nits doesn't matter unless you watch in direct sunlight Im rocking plasma still and it's the best next to OLED.
This looks promising! I can't wait for this technology to make it to consumer market and PC monitors.
Ah, Ive been waiting for you to post this Vincent!
From this kind of technology i get excited like a little child in a candy house even much more then the master 4000 nits Sony series .
Wow this is amazing! Such a smart idea, this is like the best of FALD and OLED combined. Can’t wait till this comes to consumer grade TVs
best looking tv i ever saw.
outstanding! as always vince
Vincent loves Panasonic 💪🏻😌
First thing i thought of was power consumption.
But this no matter how good will only work if the consumer price is right.
1000 nits constantly on in the background regardless of the scene.. yeah, this will be quite warm o.O
@John Hooper holy crap
Damn u Panasonic , u better sell these in United States when u get that price down.
Ps Enough with the wide angle. I want the best picture.
Please Panasonic , dont do what Sony did after the beautiful Z9d.
Love the video.
Totally thinking transformers with that name .
How does it work with fast moving objects in high contrast imagery? Hope it's not a Mega Con.
That would make a great 3D screen.
I’m not sure they will use the name « MegaCon » for the french market...
ROFL!!! Je crois pas aussi
Welcome to Germany !
If you don't like Vincent or give him a thumbs down, you're outright an asshole... This man is intelligent, real, a great communicator and a character. Humanity needs more people like Vincent!
Thank you Vincent for sharing with us!
Watch out everyone, Vinnie's got the sporty jacket on today! Things could get a little spicy!
I have no idea what you're saying (i'm technologically illiterate), but your enthusiasm makes me want it
He said two things in life get him excited , larger displays or... is it the other thing makes u want it? 😏
I'll stick with my recently acquired Panasonic ZT60🍻
So how long do we have to wait until a 55 inch consumer version can be purchased for $2k? Im guessing mini LED is going to be our best alternative to OLED as both dual layer LCD and micro LED seem like they're a ways off to being affordable to the general market.
Alright! Some company bring this technology to PC monitors and than we have something good to f**king talk about!
It did! Apple Pro Display XDR.
I think it consume more energy
@@mincuvirgil4161 ips
@@mincuvirgil4161 Dude Vincent done another video debunking that. Apple Pro Display actually doesn't have a dual layer screen 👌🏾
@@C--A Yah man, you're right I saw it! He was presented as dual layer lcd initially!
Most people don't watch in perfect darkness so I think this technology is ideal for home use. If they can find a way to make it easier/cheaper to produce this will be the TV to get.
it called time it will happen and even better
Two lcd panels ... bring back active 3d then
No one bough 3D TVs last time.
I did LG 42 3D still going strong...😃
@@RobertK1993 , companies stopped producing 3D televisions even when the technology (OLED) just started to make quality 3D picture available. I really liked those 2016 LG 4K OLEDs' 3D reproductions. Sharp, crystal clear 3D images from all viewing angle, without any ghosting or such issues... (The reason why less and less people bought 3D TVs from the beginning of 2010, was the not proper 3D pictures most of those could provide. So the buyers were not impressed at all.)
It is a really bad thing that all the companies decided no longer create 3D televisions at that point.
As the technologies in television making has been even more advanced since then, it would be great if they changed their mind, and produce some really really good 3D televisions for now. I"m pretty much sure that a lot of people (incl. myself) would buy those...
Vincent is a very intelligent man and very good humour
Add 3D make it available in USA under 3k and Panasonic is back on top of sales.
Vincent, are your middle names "Finbarr" and "Saunders"?
Because of his double entendres?
What would you recommend for best picture accuracy a d quality for someone on a budget? In the US, btw. Everything seems so expensive and I am also confused about the numerous hdr formats and HDMI 2.1
This dual layer technology is the same as Hisenses dual cell TV?
This technology looks good for gaming ? I cant wait to have a gaming monitor capable of incredible contrast... 1000:1 is bad and VA monitor right now have too much ghosting... :(
Am thinking to just buy the oled from lg ...the newly unveiled one
1,000,000:1 contrast ratio 😳
55 inch screen size 😒
Speak for yourself, bub. I use TVs as my PC monitors, because ~30 inches is laughably small once you've had 42+ for a decade as I have. It's just like how a user of such monitors would regard an old-school 17 inch screen -- likely with sneering contempt. But 55 is about the largest possible screen I could conceivably handle as a desktop display. There are limits. TVs give me size, quality, HDR, and now they're even starting to provide Freesync. Sticking with traditional sizes is like keeping your flip phone: Sure, it works, but... there are inescapable disadvantages.
Asterra2 nice 27inch 1440p screen you have! (:
@@Asterra2 i used tvs as monitor for a while. i think 40" is the perfect size. 52 is completely unusable as a monitor, even if i push it as far back in my 1 meter deep desk as i can. but tvs have tons of disavantages, too, which is why i've been back to a monitor for 4 years. it's a 34" ultrawide. smallest size i found usable was 27", but i have to use it a lot closer than i used my 40".
@@GraveUypo I'm using a 55" right now. I'd say that is the limit, at least for the distance I view it at. I think to make an argument against a large size like that is to make one against VR goggles. You really never go back once you've done it. When I watch, say, a storm chasing video on RUclips in 4K, I get a sense of scale from the wide FOV that is normally *impossible.* It's like an epiphany, to realize that those small video rectangles were actually originally most of a person's field of view and the tornado is gigantic. Is 55" too large for a desktop? I'm here to tell you it is not. Hell, I'm arguing that you don't get the most out of 4K without a setup like mine.
@@Asterra2 vr sucks.
55 is only good if you're at least 2 meters away from the screen, otherwise you can't see the entire screen all at once which renders its size moot in everything but games (in those you can use a insanely high fov to focus what's important in the center and simulate peripheral vision with the large size but still meh)
Now sell this in 75-85 inch and it is game over for premium oled.
Not really; a modern enthusiast who values aesthetics (which is a lot) in mind would pick the OLED; especially the wallpaper/rolling models. This will be more for pros for a while.
Keep in mind that LG economy of scale got a DRAMATIC increase with their new plant. A LG OLED C9 destroys modern monitors attempting to match its picture quality being 2.6 times cheaper usually. Micro-LED is 6 times cheapter and this thing will probably be tens of thousands of dollars.
Never gonna happen - This tech will not come to the masses. Broadcast stuff will always be separate from consumer gear.
Gabo H Dual cell has been used for reference monitors for ages and still haven’t succeeded flagship reference OLED monitors (HDR making that more nuanced)
Gabo H Dual LCD isn’t close to being able to be mass produced. There’s a reason why you don’t see one in the consumer market
Also note for high-end TV market to THEN trickle down to mainstream, you absolutely need enthusiast support just like GPUs & other high-end tech hardware. That’s why LG’s $1200 OLED HDMI 2.1 TVs have DESTROYS $4000+ QLED & OLED monitors today + the high-end TV & reference monitor market overwhelming support OLED leading to lower costs for all.
Considering that info, it’s extremely telling long term pro support has lead to nothing important or noteworthy associated with Dual LCD monitors & TVs for consumers
OLED burn-in is extremely exaggerated-especially with modern OLED TVs & monitors that turn off when you’re not there.
Gabo H QLED sales aren’t more than OLED. Samsung are TV leaders in low-end, mainstream market, not high-end TV market. high-end TV market is dominated by OLED. Samsung CTO literally admitted this (reputable sources like AnandTexh circulated this) and are creating QOLED panels this past year as a result.
And it makes sense; LG’s OLED 2019 full HDMI 2.1 TVs this past year alone DOA’d an overwhelming amount of TVs & Monitors-including the ones that used the same panel they supplied for third-party TVs & Monitors.
All that said, You don’t seem to understand the market, the enthusiasts are critical for monitor tech be cheaply available for all. That’s simply how the display market works (just like GPUs)
I'm using an iPhone and I can't tell how impressive that screen looks.
Looks great on my Huawei P20Pro (android) phone🤔🍻
How thick is that 55" tv? If it's more than an 1.2 inches thick, I'll just wait for mini-led to mature a bit.
I don't care how good the picture is. If it hangs on my wall like a brick, I'm out.
Is this the same tech in Hisense or mini Led TCL?
I've always wanted to have that Sony BVM-HX310 at 55" size because it looked the best amongst all the OLEDs and it even looks slightly better than QD-OLED so I can finally have it at 55" from Panasonic that looks even more beautiful than the Sony BVM-HX310. :) But Sony got OLED version of Reference Studio Mastering Monitor that Panasonic should also get in production it. :P
Your subtle puns make me laugh out loud each and every time.
Panasonic is # 1 exland company I like Panasonic. Also have very good laptops to
They need to come back to the usa market.....had their plasmas tv for years
South Korea companies lead the TV technology (OLED, QLED, QD OLED) and Japanese companies struggle to catch up, Chinese companies take the middle to low price sector with basic LCD, LED technology with added value such a 4K, android tv etc
Wait.. the display on that screen a lot way more remarkable than this particular video
This might make me consider abondening OLED if done right. Looks promising!
Don’t old your breath.
Panasonic Technology is best.
@Richárd Molnár: It helps that they inherited some of the Pioneer Kuro engineers 😜
I thouht to ask direct to VICENT: LG B8 HAS THE SAME BLACK FRAME INSERTION THAN LG C8? DIFFENRENCE IS IN IMAGE PROCESSING, IT MEANS BOTH HAVE THE SAME COLOR GAMUT.... IT WILL HELP ME TO DECIDE WHITC
ONE ILL BYE.
How does it compare to Hisense dual LCD?
Best Oled, best LCD and you can't buy them in the states.
When do we get the Bat-mobile review, Vince?
Sounds a bit too rich for me I’m going to have to rough it with my 77” C8 😢
The C8 is better
For the people who doesn't know about this tech much, what is so special about these and are they that better then high end TV's of consumer market ?
The new late 2019 Hisense is doing that. Getting rid of the X-wide screen filter layer and using a layer of LEDs in place of it. Around $50,000 for a second layer of LEDs?
The second layer is not an LED. LED is used for backlighting. The second layer is a filter, on a per pixel level, that blocks the amount of light that the LED is producing, thus simulating an OLED and getting very deep blacks.
The veiwing angle always bugged me until i figured out that if you sit in the middle then its fine!
Oh my god. When can we have these beauties in the consumer? Maybe as PC monitor or a fucking giant display? :O
Vincent, please please do cover the hisense uled XD as well.
Is the same technology Hisense will be introducing next year?
@John Hooper The other way around????? Do you know how many nits this hisense double layer lcd has on full field ??
this technology will have a "bright" future
WHAT ABOUT THE RESPONSE TIMES AND REFRESH RATES?!
this is a $25000 tv, and is also classified as a "monitor" so I believe that it should be on the 1ms line
It's an IPS LCD panel which is usually 1ms response time these days. It is essentially an OLED killer when they can get the price down to consumer mass market. For now all we can do is dream. I think Micro LED TVs is the way to go and the future.
@@LazyCrazyGuy That would be my dream come true.
Thank you!
This tech gonna cost more than oled? Or closer to high end QLEDs?
Yeah but in the long run it'll drop down faster than oled.LG screwed themselves with oled in the fact that they spent so much development time and money on it to the point as to why that can't drop prices any further on current oled panels. On top of not finding newer ways of cutting manufacturing costs. Panasonic is a much smarter company when it comes to r&d and manufacturing costs compared to LG.
Cheaper then OLED.
DANTASTIC MANIA LG OLED panels look better on a Sony OLED TV lol.
Is the black blacker than on an OLED?
No. The second filter blocks the light from the LED, on a per pixel level, but it does not block all light. The advantage of LCD is that it does not have an ABL, like OLED, thus producing much brighter average picture levels.
@@flipwarrior Thanks. So the advantage of a dual LCD is mainly on bright scenes, right?
An idiot in a racing car
The advantages are that this technology provides almost the same level of deep blacks as an OLED but with the average picture level brightness of a top-end LCD panel.
@@flipwarrior Thank you
In every 6 months bringing in the upgraded tech and selling is a mega con.
So, when do we see this sub 2/3K price point.. Consumers want this for HomeTheater too. Since this is LCD tech, imho.. Panasonic should make a push for the US market BEFORE micro-LED takes off to get that solid foot hold first, else I think they might lose their window of opportunity to MicroLED. #LovePanasonic
Love the video thanks.
What is better mini led or dual layer?
dual layer for better blacks, mini led for brighter screen
So sad that Panasonic stopped supplying in the US. Also, I guess the second thing you would not say "no" to having in a bigger size would be your bank account right? Right? *wink*
Is it as good as burn in OLED.
Magacon means a rip-off in the UK ... Good review as per
One crappy 65-inch LCD TV is 100 Euro. Why can't be made domestic use dual layer LCDs not at 100X2 but at 1000 or 2000 Euro? Not 65 but 55-inch at least?
Will this kill Micro LED?
at 1:39, the other must be a bigger bank account...maybe that's the third.
In a nutshell MeagCon would've never been born if it wasn't for OLED's 2 major flaws ABL limitations and Burn-in!
Why don’t they use oled? Isn’t it better?
Why so late with this technology ? Maybe they tryied first to get good contrast with only one lcd panel...
Picture on tv looks more crearer than Vincent.😁
Too bad its semi-glossy. Coating like that ruins image quality, because it traps light so real life contrast is reduced (not the measured one). Also, pixels are distorted, making the image dirty and reducing clarity. Most people are not conscious of this fact, hence why we have a very sad matte coating monitor market with few exceptions. Glossy coating is always better when image quality is top priority. Matte coating is good for high lit office space, nothing else. This is even more important when 8k TVs go mainstream.
This 1000x.
I do admit though that glare or reflections can easily be annoying on a complete mirror-like, glossy screen, so I understand where they're coming from when adding these anti-glare coatings. Not an easy choice to make...
2 LCDs? How about 2x the price of what's on the consumer market?
Pioneer matched all these displays 10 years ago. No if no but's they made a reference display.
except brightness and 4k, and HDR 🤷♂️ but the kuro was ahead of it's time forsure
@@marcfavell Brightness is not an issue in a dark room. Most films are mastered at 2k so 4k is redundant and HDR at times just alters the colour temperature. No tv today matches a plasma for motion clarity that in itself is a major contributing factor.. Nothing worse than motion judder for ruining a cinematic experience.
Yes but who supplied Pioneer with their panels?
@@Altcine Pioneer..
@@cp070476 4K is not redundant at all very noticeable but HDR and wide colour gamut makes all the difference more so then resolution, but HDR does depend on the signal though
I just wish something like this would come to the consumer market rather sooner than later. As nice as the OLED is, it's not nice very long sadly. OLED owner with burn-in and some other issues. And that's by babysitting the damn thing.
The price must be $50k
Maybe not? One high end LCD tv is like $3000, this one has 2 LCD screens so maybe double the cost for the parts, and tack on 10k for “r&d surcharge”. Would be okay at 16k per TV. I still wouldn’t but it till it’s on sale for 3k 😂
Better than OLED.
Is it me, or does that TV look like direct view 3D? How can it look that way on MY screen too? Hmm.