Machining a Height Extension for a Dividing Head Footstock
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- I found out that the footstock that came with my dividing head is not original to this particular head and was a bit on the short side. Instead of trying to find the correct one, I decided to just make a little height extension to raise it up high enough to match the dividing head. This video is how I went about making this extension.
My latest video just uploaded - Machining a Height Extension for a Dividing Head Footstock.
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Great video Keith, I also enjoyed the video of the dividing head disassembly and rebuild. You continue to inspire me for my work. MAX
Max Wallace Thanks - glad that you enjoyed!
Another great video packed full of great info, thanks Keith.
I subscribed to follow your foundry and discovered many more great videos. It is nice to know that I am not the only one to have a bozo moment. You are an inspiration, thank you for your contribution.
It's kinda hard not to get wound up over your own mistakes but we are not playing video games here. It for sure is nice to be able to recover your own mistakes too. Nice save KR!
mikecwiklinski No video games here at all - what happens, happens and you deal with it in real time!
Only a machinist can get "excited" about using a new tool Keith !!!
That's funny right there.
You and Norm Abrams from The New Yankee Workshop are just about the best guys to watch on RUclips !!!
Thanks for posting this Keith. I always jump at the opportunity when you post a new video.
Thanks again.
Steven Thompson I agree 100%.
Steven Thompson Thanks Steven - yes, I get excited with new tools!
Steven Thompson Yep...!!! I get excited when I try a new tool in the shop, also got excited when I got to try my old tool in new material, divorce and getting married again.... :-))
I was just as excited as you to see that cutter finally put to use. The inserts are in the correct packages, as you assumed. That material also looked like a pain in the butt. Hard and gummy. Great video!
Dakota Hunt Thank again Dakota for sending the cutter along - it worked like a charm and I can already tell that it will see lots of action in the future!
this is what I like the most of your videos, when you make your own tools.
Way to go! Another fine solution to a problem. Glad you caught that slot error while you still had a little material left.
Plain 'Ol Beekeeping in Plano, TX Thanks - it does what it is supposed to do so I am happy!
Nice Job Keith. Thanks for sharing.
Herb Blair Thank you Herb!
That insertable milling cutter from Dakota is really smooth and nice!
***** Indeed it is! A very nice tool for the shop!
Man, I thought that the material was getting a little thin and wondered if there was going to be 0.125" left for the top key. I'm glad you caught it! Thanks for posting this!
vajake1 Yeah, dummy me.....
You just got a little distracted!
Great project Keith; we are not a perfect work ourselves yet but when the Lord comes back we will be. Of course, we won't be doing bricklaying or machining either! Keep up the good work and I'll keep up watching and learning, Greg.
Charles Compton I kind of hope that there will be a really cool machine shop to play in when I get upstairs. All kinds of big toys to play with!!!
Another great video! We all make mistakes and you felt with it well. Cheers
Thumbs up Keith , Worked out great !!
ShawnMrFixit Lee Thanks!
One of the other RUclips machinists (Tom Lipton?) has a similar tailstock, and the ability to adjust the angle of the tailstock will allow things like machining keyways or splines on a tapered shaft. A nice feature to have available.
Of course, it will also require raising the tailstock by different amounts depending on the exact angle as well as the distance between centers. If you can get the tailstock raised to just a bit above the required height, the effective height can be "tuned" by changing the amount of stickout of the spindle of the tailstock.
I can't tell if there is a machined flat on the top surface of the tailstock which would allow using a sine bar to get precise angles (to match the angle of the dividing head) by indicating.
Peter W. Meek This footstock will also allow you to adjust the angle for various reasons, as well as fine adjusting the height. As to the top of the dead center being flat, this is pretty common and it is to allow clearance for the cutter to not cut into the center. Very often, the cutter is running directly above the center on the footstock.
Nicely done Keith!
Thanks!
You could always mill a female slot and use male keys like the original setup, which has the advantage of being able to remove the keys in case you need to setup offset or at some odd angle that doesn't align with the table slots. Having to work so you can do work is a never ending battle. lol
bcbloc02 +1 on Brian's idea. Of course, you can leave it like it is and keep that idea in the back of your head in case you might want to do it later. It would sure resist side loads better, but might be more difficult to get an overall tight and accurate fit.
bcbloc02 I considered milling a slot like you describe but what I have now will work just fine. No need to go to a bunch of extra effort.
like your comment, you focus on the solution, not the problem
Neat job Keith, the way you used the screws to mount the center on the plate
will keep them together. So I feel it worked out to your advantage.
Great thinking on your part.
Skeeter Holeman I am not worried one bit about the part moving around, it is as stable as one could hope for!
You can always machine a spacer to size, and screw it onto the part so you can reach the full 1/8" depth.
Glad you were able to chase Mr. Bozo out, and finish! Some mistakes in life lead to a better understanding and teach us perfectionists that we are not perfect.
Cheers
Gene Elliott This perfectionist is far from perfect. I can't help but to keep striving to be better though....
Well Kieth ,remember Apprentices make small mistakes,.001, .002, etc. Journeymen make big mistakes 1/4". 1/2", etc. Thanks for sharing, i really enjoy your videos.
Good stuff! Mistakes and all! Thanks Keith :)
Jon Gene Thanks John - mistakes are just something to learn from!
Looks good at the end Keith. Pity that mrbozo turns up just at the wrong time. If you are not satisfied with the location of the base and top there is another solution I used when a piece of stock was not thick enough for the job. You could take out the cap screws and drill and tap 1/2" in the same location. Loctite in a couple of decent hex bolts on top of the locating shoulder then machine them off to 5/8 wide and machine the top to leave 2 keys about 7/8 long that are the correct height. Then redrill the cap screw clearance hole through the bolts and refix the 2 pieces together. Look forward to the next episode. regards from the UK
Gary C While I was not happy with the bozo mistake, in the end, it will not matter. I will probably just leave it as it is.
Hi Keith, if this can reassure you, we all get brain farts ounce in a while, i dont know a machinist that hasnt got a good bone head story to tell a the coffee table, like your modesty in not editing the video, thumbs up to you!
Hi Keith
Great video as always.
Mr Bozo may have been trying to act as a teacher. You stated the T-slots in the vertical and horizontal mills are of different widths, meaning you'll get a sloppy fit in one and snug in the other. Why not turn the Bozo'd plate over, using the full-depth raised ridge to fit into the slot of the tailstock. Then mill off that thin ridge making the opposite side flat. Mill two bars of different widths to fit each of the different sized T-slots and bolt corresponding one to the flat side of extension. This provides a snug fit on each bed and the tailstock.
Morris Gallo On the mill with wider slots, I just push both the dividing head and the footstock to the same side. If I did it the way you are suggesting, the footstock would be in the center of the T-slot and the dividing head would be on one side or the other (or some random place in between).
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Which is a very effective, old school, way to register your device bases to the table, as we were taught way back when...
All the Best,
Eric
Looks good Keith. I like the approach of getting it done with what you have. Who has time to buy everything!
jackfrost1031 Thanks!
will be nice to see the next video of you using the Dividing Head
David Howard I too am looking forward to it. All ready to go, just need some time to knock the project out!
Hey, if you get the time for it, it'd be cool to see you make a 40:1 reduction gearbox for something like a motorized bicycle or go kart. It should be pretty cool, and knowing gears it'll be compact unlike the jackshaft on my bike, which takes up so much space.
hello Keith, you can mill slot in your extension and make a rectangle key to fit in this and it would be better to register
Radoslaw Jocz I considered that but decided it was not worth the effort. What I have will work just fine.
That piece of bar stock is interesting! I would have a metallurgist subject it to an analysis.
Curious why you did not hog the material off with your horizontal mill? I thought big wide hogging cuts were one of the superiorities of a horizontal mill. Was it because the material was so hard/tough that you wanted to use carbide?
Great set of videos. I really like your presentation style.
I missed the scene of you slapping your forehead after milling too far, haha we've all been there - done that, great recovery.
halfwayuphill The power of editing my friend!
Is there any other way to scribe layout lines from an edge apart from measuring calipers? I'm asking since dial calipers are measuring tools and not really intended for scribing, is there a dedicated tool that is designed for this? Like hermaphrodite calipers but with the ability to be accurately set.
If you could find modern manufactured replacements, any idea what they would cost?
GOOD JOB. THANKS FOR THE VIDEO KEITH.
ROBERT HORNER Thank you for watching!
Hello Keith,
I am very curious about how you go to make gears with the dividing head and don't have any clue how it works. So I am looking forward when you go to make the gears for the blower.
It surprised me that you didn't know what kind of material that piece was and it looks like a kind of aluminium. Maybe it is a kind of aluminium they use for making structures from airplanes. Light, very hard and no corrosion seems to me like airplaines.
Anyway again a very nice video and I always remember measure twice and than make the cut or hole haha. I feel good that even you make sometimes a little fault because I don't feel so stupid that I did that moretimes.
Many greetings from Roel !
RoelTyros That material is anything but light - I think it is even heavier than steel.....
Keith, Nicely done job. I did one similar to that recently. Same situation.
What technique did you use to determine the height difference between the tail stock and the dividing head?
All the best!
Eric
esoomreltna I put a reamer with a long ground shank in between centers and then ran the table back and forth with an indicator on the top of the shaft to watch for changes in height. I then bumped the height of the tailstock up or down until it was running just right.
great video keith. thanks for sharing your bozo moment. we have all been there. couldn't you have milled down another 50 thou or so and made up for it by adjusting the tailstock up that amount? my tailstocks have a good bit of adjustment and i havn't had a job yet that required moving the tailstock up or down any where near the full travel of the tailstock.
larry sperling I could have, but I decided to leave it as it was to maximize adjustment. In the end, it really does not matter, it is not going anywhere....
job well done
I appreciate the good editing. We get to see everything except the repetitive and redundant parts.
can someone tell me what all the extra gears are for on the back of that dividing head and how they are used
I’d really like to know what alloy it is lol
Keith, why didn't you weld a pad of beads down the center, and then re-mill it down?
This is why we love watching you Keith--you don't mess up often, but when you, you show it and it makes the rest of us feel better about our own Bozo-isms. :)
And if that's Inconel, how big is the bar stock that's left? Ha.
Thomas Utley That bar is pretty big. I can barely pick it up by myself.... So, just how valuable is this Inconel stuff?
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Take a look at McMaster Karr, might not be the best place to purchase this type of material but it will give you an idea... (just type in inconel in the search box)_
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I found two websites that list spot prices for scrap alloys. Looks like Inconel variants are going for about $5.50/lb as scrap. That should give you an idea of the bottom end of the bar's value, less whatever it takes to get it from the museum to a place that deals in it. Without material certs, that's probably the only way you'll get a buyer for it.
............Inconel......and if so, that bar is worth a TON of money. Would be worth selling and using the funds to buy steel and possibly some other items.
Brian Streufert I looked up the specs on Inconel and it very well could be. Wish there was a way to confirm the alloy without having an analysis done. And even if I could prove what it was, I would have no idea where to try and sell it....
Brian Streufert Would have been worth more before he milled half of it away. Oops. At least it won't rust. :P
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org You might try taking it down to your local metal recycler, they usually have a gadget to identify the material.
Bruce E Usually a PMI (Positive Material Identification) gun...
justfakeit888 If Keith kept the chips, sell a bag of chips on Ebay... ''BAG OF BBQ FLAVORED INCONEL CHIPS: buy it now: $150''... ;-)
I wonder what that piece of metal was??? Its a fascinating thought - although, being military surplus I *really* hope they didn't give you a chunk of depleted uranium armour to mill!!! That stuff is probably not ferromagnetic though and I doubt steel cutters would work either...
What brand dividing head is that? I just rebuilt one that looks just like it with no name on it. All it has is the serial number.
+Jeff Annon Brown and Sharpe came up with the design in the late 1800's and made them for many years. However, many companies have copied this design - you can still buy a dividing head like this from some of the off-shore import companies even today.
What about welding an extension to the top registry track and milling it again, leaving the desired depth of material for the track?
James Rawlings I could, but it is fine the way it is.
At a later date, you could just mill a slot down the middle and drop a bar/key in it to register the base.... make up for the "lost" material.
WAVETUBE84 No need I think - it appears to be working fine!
Hey, did you use a long focal length lens, to get the camera away from the machines?
Rexus King I use a Canon 70D camera with a 18-135mm zoom. It lets me move the camera a good distance from the action....
The foot stock looks to contain a metal plate that governs its height, I'd have thought it would have been easier to replace that. As It looks like it's only bolted in place. Unless you wanted to have integral T fittings or other features which the foot stock did not originally have.
Believe me I'm all for upcycling.
16:00 But you need that extra material just to have some material there - not to define dimensions or for dimensional integrity - so you could definitely extend that rail with expoy if you wanted to. Just remember to rough up the surface first.
Great video Keith, informative as ever. I wouldn't sweat the Bozo card, I have a whole deck of those......
You can always slot a key in it later.
Samsgarden I considered that but I really think the way it is will work just fine.
ok, so you say to have removed a bit to much from the metal. so why not add metal by tig welding, mig welding or even stick welding???
+Robert Ostman It just was not critical on this particular job. It worked out just fine, just not as I had originally planned.
Keith,
Sorry about your bozo moment. But it looks like you saved the day anyway . . . and you didn't have to ride in on your white steed in your shiny armor! Thanks for the video!
Have a good one!
Dave
Swarf Rat Thanks Dave - it turned out just fine. I used it all today and it works like a charm!
I was sort of expecting some little blooper since that is human nature. Fortunately it was not an important one. Nice work. Thanks for the video.
cerberus No big deal on the bozo moment....
With the way you wave hands around spinning sharp instruments, I'm surprized you have all your fingers still in place.
One of the idiots in our school did the same at the manufacturing practice.
The miller skinned off his arm to the elbow.
+Anr Daemon Whatever.... Never did I come anywhere close to being in danger. As evidence to my safety record, I do still have all of my ten fingers (as well as all other original parts) after 25+ years of working in the shop.......
Where is Blacksmith Blower Rebuild: Part 3?
+Dan P Check out the playlist - they are in order: ruclips.net/p/PLbGC44mjwqrcSBAhN0xHeWASQAv0km65n
keith cool video nice job.-------------bob
Robert Kutz Thanks Bob!
While you were milling the 5/8" rib, at ~ 12:50 I can see that I'm far from being the only guy who has parallels "walk" out from under the workpiece while milling in a vise... ;^)
chemech That is actually pretty normal - for parallels to move like that.
Be careful Keith that steel might have come from a alian crash sight lol.
+Michael Poulin It could have!
my mill hates big face mills, the only thing i can use to get a good surface finish is a fly cutter
Good catch on the Bozo moment! Who hasn't had one of those? If someone says they haven't he's either lying or not trying. :-) I see you gained another knucklehead. Can't wait to see the blower gear cutting. My friend Richard Neville is a blacksmith at Motat ( museum of Transportation and Technology) in New Zealand. He works on all kinds of vintage equipment too.
Jon Hare I make lots of mistakes. No trying to hide it.....
Why does everyone on RUclips mispronounce the word "height?" It ends with a "t," not an "h." It's pronounced HEIGHT, not HEIGHTH. I wonder how this came about? Is it because of "width" and "depth" with the final "h" ending?
Victor Stanwick Hey Victor... This is my pet peeve too. I have been complaining/correcting these guys since I started watching. Drives me nuts! I think that might be why they continue... just to get even with me for my comments.
I think it happens for two reasons... mostly because of the association you mention with "width" and "depth"
but...
also because it seems like the Canadians say it that way... You know, the al ooo min eeee um crowd.
You would think the Queens' subjects would be able to speak English, wouldn't you?
+Anon Ymousmie don't blame the Canadians, we say Height and Aluminum properly.
al ooo min eeee um
Is an England thing.
being a paramedic I've run into the samething with getting a doctor to trust me again after making small mistakes, nothing that harmned a patient though. customer service.
That's probably a piece of armor plate.
+Ken Knerr It was a bar, not a plate.
not to make you look bad but what was the wosre mistake you ever made in you career?
+Michael Poulin I have made plenty of mistakes over the years. Probably the worst was was crashing a horizontal mill cutter as I was trying to get a very important rush job done for one our best clients back in the late '80's. We had to order a new cutter, which delayed getting the job done by a few days and causing us to miss a critical deadline. It did not cost us much from a money standpoint, but it hurt our reputation. We managed to continue to do work for the client but it took a while to get their total trust back again.
Hi mate.
I bet you left the door open. You can't leave the door open mate, it's an invitation for Bozo to get in, and start clouding your head. It's a bit of a shame, but at the same time, it still works.
Thanks Keith,
Marcel.
Marcel Timmers I have found that Mr. Bozo likes to come in even when I have the shop locked down tight. He can slip in the smallest of crevices into the shop.....
hi keith made it but still not well
Andy Coakes Thanks Andy - hope you will get well soon.
The "mystery material" possibilities are endless. Inconel 600, 625 and 718 are non-magnetic, as are annealed 300-series stainless steels (302, 303, 304, 316). However, the 400-series stainless steels are ferromagnetic (magnetic). Considering product availability, 410 and 420 are possibilities. If this bar is government surplus, 17-4PH or 13-8Mo stainless steels are good candidates. In the solution annealed form, they are ~HRC 30 but deliver a decent machined surface finish with considerable cutting effort. Both alloys are popular in defense development programs because of their simple, low distortion, age hardening heat treatments. Neither 17-4 nor 13-8 is equal to type 304 in corrosion resistance, but still consistent with your outdoor rack performance. Many steel suppliers and scrap yards can identify alloys non-destructively by XRF (X-ray fluorescence), sparing you the cost of lab analysis.
Dennis Stephens All I know is that this material is pretty tough stuff. It machined well but I had to take a lot of small cuts and take my time. About half way through the job, I really thought I would have been better off if I had just bought a piece of steel......
Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I don't know how the inserts survived, but since the cost of inserts is a meaningful one, cheaper new material would in fact been an economical consideration, and keep the special alloy for a more suited purpose.... Guess it' too late by now. ;-)
Might be stating the obvious but since the tail stock is adjustable up or down you can go ahead and mill down the bottom base some more to make the key higher. to 1/8" as originally planned.
1NRG24Seven Yes, but the height was designed to give me the maximum amount of flexibility in adjustments.
Sorry man , had to chuckle, ive done my share of bozo stunts,too, it just shows you are very human, bolt the thing down and go on to the next pro ject
Edad Martin I cut three of the gears with the setup already and it works like a charm. It will probably never see any modifications. Besides, I think I might have have found a K&T dividing head that was made for my mill! We will see.......
My motto: Measure twice, cut once. Curse. Go buy more material. ;-)
GeoffreyThorpe123 Yeah, the bad thing was I had all of the measurements written down on a drawing, I was just measuring the wrong part of the piece.....
Lay 3 or 4 beads of weld down. Fix a mistake and get more video footage.
Analytical response 😅
just put a 5/8 keyeay
You do of course understand the two slang names for outlines don't you, idiot lines, and panic lines. Or as my grandfather used to say only idiots don't lay out Panic lines because if you're not cutting fat you're cutting fawley
Looks like Tom Lipton's "Buddy" came to Georgia for a visit, his name? Bozo.
Bozo moment, I hate when that happens!