TMM Reacts to Lord Aris Spittin Facts
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Thank you for watching this video!
I offer coaching on Metafy metafy.gg/@the...
TMM Merch themainmanswe....
☑️Twitch: bit.ly/2rvjrnP
☑️ Discord: / discord
☑️Twitter: bit.ly/2sAxVlK
☑️Donations: bit.ly/2FpzNqP
"You shouldn't have talked, now you got the whole chat laughing at you"
One of my favorite lines from Aris ever
Which video
@@Itachi_gt3rs whaddya mean which video? That's every other time he flames someone for sharing a dumb opinion in chat KEKW at least the sentiment if not the quote verbatim
@@Itachi_gt3rs You shouldn't have posted! Now you have the whole youTube channel laughing at you!
They have a funny relationship, TMM doesn't "talk" to Aris but Aris increasees TMM viewer count because he's always telling people to watch for Tekken
I would pay top dollar to see TMM &Aris as commentators in tournaments
Hey alright
I mean, that would be glorious.
I really think it would improve tournaments share by a lot since both Aris and TMM are able to entertain so naturally.
It would be a very unique commentary because Aris just says anything top of his head and just goes with it LOL 😂
I thought he commentated evo once but could’ve heard wrong
If only Aris would ever leave his damn house anymore lul
Aris and TMM are the two people who most helped my Tekken game. Hail to both of them!
Yep. Shame Aris stopped playing cuz of how toxic the community is for a game he loves. I learned a lot just from watching him. I still watch top players but I mixed it up watching my own gameplay. That’ll take you to the next level.
@@ShiftingCloudsYT toxicity he can handle just fine he stopped playing because t7 online is so trash and he got stream snipe a lot
@@aadliafiq nah he just hates Tekken fans 😂
But yeah
Online sucks
I learned so much about Tekken from that Hagrid looking man right there.
you should tell him that on aris'
twitch channel
@@lilcrazyaaron209 nice setup
@@sonofaballer96 hehehe that kids not ready
😂😂😂😂
Aris is my favourite commenter by far, I'll watch him play anything he's fuckin hillarious. But I've learned more about the game from TMM.
Dude his ebola 3 playthrough was too good
@@SirBranDon24 the cutscenes haha
Aris dropping a Mirror in Path of Exile and not even knowing what he had was peak content imo
That's because you had to watch Aris since TTT2 days. Believe it or not he was making guides about the game.
@@Mr440c Yeah, Aris' guides were the shit man. He was like a genius at work, he explained the basics of fighting game in such a unique manner - like finding pair of moves that complement each other and many more. I miss those guides.
If Tokido went to it that’s all you need to know. He’s known for going for any & every advantage in fighting games. He’s not dropping years of stick play for a Hitbox for no reason.
Aris and TMM are the real OGs of Tekken's Butthash Online Content.
HitBox was the entire reason I actually got into fighting games. I could never get clean L/R on an arcade stick, & the d-pad & trigger buttons were problems on a pad. Aside from a recent ESD death to my SnackBox, I've loved SF6 constantly since release. It DID take like 4 months to get used to the leverless layout though.
This is 100% on the devs IMHO. 4 frame super (although the input requires preparation and is incredibly awkward) in street fighter is only possible due to input leniency. In older street fighters this is completely impossible since diagonals are required. For the tekken specific examples like sidestep that could be patched in either direction. The charge character thing is bullcrap tho, that doesn't work like that.
I do think you can charge and walk forward in sf2
but yeah, everywhere else thats not how it works
@@fernandopires135 not on a hitbox or a mixbox. That was "patched out" in hardware. On keyboard, yeah maybe, but it depends on the emulator
yeah, last input does allow for frame perfect return from forward to back and sf6 guile's new "perfect boom" will unfortunately be incredibly easy to do as well since you can use the same hand for both buttons, but I think neutral socd cleaning is already good enough at mitigating the game breaking aspects of cardinal direction buttons if not for the weird input leniency that is unique to every game that may allow it to do dubious and funky stuff.
The irony about input leniency, though, is that it seems designed to mitigate the difficulty of precise command inputs on stick/pad. Now that hitboxes do away with the precision hurdle, they can even further exploit the game's adaptation for its inherent difficulty.
@@crystalnite I don't know about that. It's easy to miss diagonals in quarter circles or especially half circles (or even the down input) on leverless, but i never miss them on pad or stick. The crossup is a different story, where you get the advantages of both, and the downsides of neither i guess
Aris is funny as fuk he always keeps it real no matter what 😭
Yeah this is the best comedy on the planet
@@ant_989 no kidding 😭
Around the 10 minute mark he talks about some good tekken playa’s what’s their names??
Keyboard players trying to stay low key right now.
I think these guys have nothing better to discuss after this game is out for so many years... People need something to cry about every now and then.
Keyboard player in the fgc: wow thats cool
If you play hitbox: you cheating filth!
😂😂
@@wildhynagames7911 They miss TTT2
I mean in the 90s and early 2000s pads were considered cheating too (especially by the "elite" arcade cabins players). You couldn't even use binds in some local tournaments and that's why some legacy Tekken players learned the claw grip on pad. Nowadays button binds on controllers are considered perfectly fine by pretty much everyone in the fgc. At the end of the day better player will always win regardless of the controller. Also, game developers are slowly dropping more complicated legacy motion inputs for the sake of being more accessible for casual players so one day this hitbox double input cheat argument will become irrelevant anyway.
Motion input are a key design in fighting games, removing them will not allow you to do 6 attack buttons with command normals it will result in an entirely different game system and honestly it's not impressive nor more fun that's why a game like Street Fighter can't remove them and they are still in SF6, like imagine an invincible 3f reversal move without motion input will be just broken and removing it will not be the same.
The thing that devs are doing is just making games easy like GG Strive in this game some combos and hit confirms are so easy you can just call it auto combo despite having motion inputs but they are so lenient and easy that you can't say it's hard game for new players even with motion inputs in it on the contrary, but regardless hitbox will always have an advantage and as top SF japan players are using Hitbox more and more it will becomes more common.
Definitely agree with you there.
the dev could just block opposite inputs. this code could write 1 person in 10 minutes and add it to the game.
You don't understand anything from this video... "At the end of the day better player will always win regardless of the controller" - dude no. You can be "the better player" but if your opponent is playing on controler which literally can do things which others can't - you will lose. That's the argument. It's impossible to win despite having better execution or legacy skill. It's physically impossible to win. The only way to gauge which player is better is to use same controllers.
@@Nobbi_Habogs The devs can't do that since like Aris said the Hitbox will do it's cleaning itself so what that means if you are holding back and then press forward without letting go of back the Hitbox will therefore immediately send only the forward input, so this hole problem with hitboxes can't be solved by the devs this way.
It's not a problem on the software level but on the hardware level since in a Hitbox you are free to tweak your SOCD cleaner to last input win or first input when you press two buttons at the same time.
Aris is one the funniest dudes on the planet
Yep
You cannot forward dash while charging. It will register as neutral. This is referred to as SOCD cleaning.
However you CAN charge pretty much immediately after pressing forward, as Aris mentions.
I don’t see why the argument has become that Hitbox is cheating instead of how the other controllers are inferior and they could use some changes in order to keep up.
That's what I think, the discussion is mainly " How is this not cheating " where I think in reality, it's more " How is this cheating in the first place ? "
I mean I'm not an expert on the subject I'm open to both sides, but I don't see how it's 100% cheating when it seems the reality with two inputs is a bit different + isn't just mixbox / hitbox controller just a bit better ? I don't know, just seems a bit weird
@@ARMarTy_v
The games are not meant to be played this way. That's all there is to it. It's a controller designed to make thing that aren't possible on others possible.
I wish TMM watched the whole video, some great points were still in there as well as the hilarious moments Aris usually brings
Aris don't know what he's talking about. There is an SOCD cleaner in Hitbox and Mixbox. DIY leverless controllers using Brook boards also has multiple types of SOCD cleaners. You can't input opposite directions at the same time. Default on hitbox and mixbox is "back+forward=neutral, up+down=up".
He's old and doesn't play anymore lol.
To be fair though, i think there could be a valid argument for up down being neutral instead of up
This is wrong. There are certain ones you can buy that have switches for toggling between the 2 different socd "modes", mpress for example. You can also build your own to work that way as well. It's very much possible.
@@Lemon_Force Still has SOCD cleaner. You still can't input opposite directions at once. It just handle it differently. These are the 3 types of SOCD cleaners: "last input priority, up+down=up, up+down = neutral".
People will say shot without even understading this basic thing
Technically a playstation controller can press 2 directions at the same time as well. Both SFV and T7 allow the usage of DPAD and Analog at the same time so you can still cancel directions without letting go of the first one.
SOCD Cleaner exists to eliminate inputs that are impossible. You can't input opposite directions in a hitbox. The game registers neutral or up. There is only an advantage just for travel time and socd inputs having a way to push neutral at will. There are no illegal inputs
Everyone keeps repeating the dual input thing but any homebrew box that is capable of doing that is already banned
@@greatbigeyeball and either way, the game should be accounting for these situations with its own input cleaning. If the controller can send inputs that break the game, the devs need to reconsider their input processing to account for it. It should be treated like any other exploit.
@@deciett Yes. This is the correct take. I am a developer myself and in my honest opinion the rise of new controllers have simply made people aware of the shortcomings FGs have in their inner-workings. These developers are notoriously behind the times and technology (10+ years and we still can't guarantee working online). They just got lazy because the niche of players were willing to self police. No other genre would try to tell people what controller someone decides to use when they could just fix it at the engine level.
"The game registers neutral or up"
Yes, that is the advantage as TMM explains when he talks about being able to sidestep after Kaz/Hei f+4.
Also most SOCDs are either set to register either the first or the last input last which has it's own problems entirely.
Just because your hitbox has a SOCD does not mean it fixes all the inherent problems with hitboxes.
Having 'neutral' as an actual input isnt currently illegal, but it is something that sticks & (arguably) pad cannot do at all. Its not a macro, but its not something to overlook.
TMM and Aris are the absolute best. They've both been around for donkeys years (whatever the hell that saying means) and they both still state things with 0 bullcrap
Also, Aris' streams are so f***ing funny but you've got to adapt to the chat to survive. It's actually very strict. No essaying, no asking stupid questions, no mocking Aris. Likely to be banned.
I once asked Super Akouma "What's the most difficult technic to do on a hitbox?". He just replied "nothing!"
That's not the issue in the first place either. But, shit like Ivy's SS or CS command grabs in Soul Calibur I would say are easier to do on stick/pad than hitbox.
NOUM: Super Akouma, what’s the most difficult technique to do on a hitbox?
Super Akouma: Rien
playing right side xP
so? Just buy one or make one yourself, problem solved.
Here we go again, grandpas discussing whether pressing buttons is cheating.
Button-based controllers aren't cheating, sticks and pads are a handicap. Grandpas play on sticks due to legacy skill, console players play pads because that's the controller they have, and that's fine. PC players play keyboard because that's what they have, and that's also fine.
Moving your body to generate one input per press will never be cheating.
Games where buttons allow "illegal" tech (like blocking both sides or sidestep into foreground while crouching) are de-facto bugged and should be fixed. PS4/5 not allowing regular cheap USB keyboards should look towards Xbox and not force people to buy 300$ Hit/Mix boxes to get access to buttons.
Cope harder
One guy said said it perfectly on Aris' channel, "I wonder if this is what Amish guys in the 1920s felt like when they watched cars go speeding by" lol, this sums up the entire thing so well, the fgc is evolving, there is no cohesive argument to ban hitbox when keyboards have been around since the dawn of time, it could also be argued that pad should be banned at that point, and everyone can play either one, I guess Devilster should have to use stick right lol? Nothing but gate keeping elitism that will hold the community back
how does gatekeeping hold the community back?
In the matter of "having fun", yes can do whatever box you want to play.
A fair advantage should be given to each contender in a tournament play.
Might as well recommend them HITBOX/MIXBOX as an ideal preferences. Stick been around as an old school feel controller.
I haven't tried stick controller so i would want to know how it would felt if i used it.
Have Devilster used BOX in any tournaments?
@@AIRFGC because it keeps it from growing, in order for it to continue on it needs to get new members, arcades have been dying for years, the fgc should be welcoming new blood, fgc devs definitely seem to feel the same
@@Section8dc of course devs want more players, they're selling a product and want more money, but a community is supposed to be about more than money, but to prioritize quality connections between like-minded individuals.
How does gatekeeping hold the community back?
@@AIRFGC because the community has been dying for a long time, like I said arcade culture is almost completely gone even in Japan, to continue forward the fgc needs to grow, oviously you don't want all the "normies" to take over, and I am definitely torn on them dumbing down fighting games in recent years, but like it or not in order to proliferate the fgc needs new members and gatekeeping will only destroy the community in an effort to keep it "pure", we are already incredibly niche as it is
If people are so salty about different controllers, why don't tournaments just standardize it so that everyone uses gamepad.
FYI, you can totally use socd match practically on dualshock and dualsense. Place all the buttons on the triggers and bumpers, then you have both hands to use for the pad and left stick. I've played with it, it's definitely a step up on normal pad movement
in 2d games you can already use your right hand on the left stick to trigger socd for "frame perfect" sonic booms. there area already pad players who play like this.
Paddles also, I have a buddy who uses his paddles for tricks
Ye
What’s SOCD?
The whole left and right button presses at the same time is just plain wrong and is not possible with a Hitbox btw. This input gets cleaned by the SOCD cleaner and registers a neutral input. The controller merely follows the coding that is allowed in the game. If we're gonna address this problem, the game developers need to do something about it.
People are blaming the wrong thing. It's the programming inside the game should take the blame, not the controllers. Pads can already do this type of things possible with an HB, so ban pad?
EDIT: Btw im an Arcade Stick Lever user. I dont even own the hitbox, I just understand how SOCD works. Someone might accuse me of being a HB shill lol. Im not, im a Lever Lover.
If you ask me, yes HB's gives you advantage because of faster inputs, but should it be banned? No. The controllers are just simply evolving. Lever controllers are ancient, it was a thing before I was even born (born in 96).
I mean, the controller itself could prevent it without the software, but they don't want that as it would limit their sales, and people would find workarounds anyway or build their own stuff. At this point I don't think devs care enough to make the ethical decision of coding for/against it. Which can only limit player base. But maybe that will change.
Pads don't really allow you to do it, at least not in a conventional sense. Sure you could hold left on a DS4 dpad and right on the left stick but it's not physically practical. The dpad itself doesn't even allow both directions to be pushed at the same time. So yeah, we can ban the controller and not have an issue with the way the game is coded. Even if we take lay the blame solely on devs and how they coded the game, should we just let these controllers rock until devs manage to code for every variation that stops these things from happening?
@@Sir_Robin_of_Camelot Im talking about the official HB's that follow the game's standards btw not custom made ones that bypasses it. Those ones are definitely cheating. The Official hitbox controllers are REQUIRED to follow tournament rules, so the regular Hitboxes just follows whatever capcom tells them. The custom made ones for sure I take issue with. Those ones are a problem.
@@Ravemaster620 Practicality doesnt matter, banning something is not based off "Practicality" it's whether you CAN or CAN'T do it. Pads, MB's and, HB's CAN do this, so why pads are not banned then. MenaRD and Nuckeldu (pro pad players) do those tech already. But yes I agree, it's definitely faster than a regular lever controller, that's basically the whole schtick of Hitboxes and Mixboxes.
@@SlaineReigns How would that work with different developers and games? They just stick to what Capcom says and everyone plays along and that's the product they get? Not that that's a bad thing necessarily in this case, I'm just curious.
I agree that people on Mixboxes or the similar digital controllers are definitely at an advantage.
However, I think we have to bear in mind that developments in competitive environments always happen, and I don't think the right thing to do is to try to insulate the games from these developments.
Badminton used to be played with wooden rackets, then steel and now aluminium and carbon fibre. Smashes have gotten faster and the entire meta around how to serve has changed as power is more readily available to the best players without it being as tiring or difficult. At no point should Badminton have 'banned' these 'obviously superior' rackets. People who want to remain competitive just got new rackets, got used to playing with them and began enjoying the advantages. The people who refused to could still compete, but they had to understand that they needed to be better by a larger margin to win.
I learnt to serve underhand; and if I wanted to return to playing competitively I'd have to master the backhand serve. That's just the case now.
I think the only issues are 1) the above example took place over some 40 years and the development and implementation of Mixboxes has been nigh instantaneous by comparison, and 2) the manufacturing of the equipment is monopolized by relatively few producers and that means people might be priced out of getting a Mixbox or equivalent.
EDIT: An interesting parallel I thought of afterwards is that the Classic Tetris Competitive scene still requires the use of the original SNES controller and CRT monitors, so you can get competitive environments that prohibit technological progress. At the end of the day, it is down to the individual tournament/league organizers what they will or will not permit.
Plus the biggest improvement that happened in the fgc with SFIV was when usb arcade sticks were being made and there was a competition between a 8 way stick and a square 4 way stick. 4 way was absolutely better because of that square design that it's now standard if your going to own a stick.
The players in the east have adopted and embraced this style of controller, meanwhile over the west we're bitching and moaning. And we wonder why we always fall behind in the FGC.
Dont fighting games sell best over here?
@@juhadexcelsior he's talking about tournaments, in sfv there's just one british evo champion and the rest are ALL asians, even in sf4 times the champions were almost all asians too, mostly from japan
It's the developers fault for jank old code in the engine not being cleaned, but it's also not showing much pride by abusing what are essentially glitches to win a competition. All the world-class players aside from Super Akouma use pad or stick for Tekken, so I'm not sure what you mean. People who have easy mode controllers just don't like being called out. Aris is literally telling people to cheat as much as they want, he's just pointing outwhy it is cheating.
Thats literally scrub mentality. If it's in the game, use it. And if it's not against the rules, it's literally not cheating.
@@aidanklobuchar1798 modded controllers that are being used are, in fact, against the rules. We don't even disagree on using what you can get away with to win. It's just what you define cheating as. A lot of the old-school define it as cheating.
Let's put it this way; I'm not going to pat anyone on the back for bowling near perfect games every game when you're using bumper rails
You can't charge whilst walking forward, everything else in the video i pretty much agree with. I used to play on keyboard and play Urien so i've tested this.
Its true. It is not possible with a standard hitbox or mixbox
@@narimandk6387 In SFV? It's absolutely impossible. I think only SFII had that issue, of games that people still play realistically. SFV's forward plus back socd results in forward, which is reasonable (although, confusingly, they want SOCD to clean to neutral in tournament rules, so who knows what's up there,) but walking charge is not possible at all in street fighters 3, 4, or 5.
@@galtar862 I guess it is possible to some cheating not that bad but almost a game breaking sonic boom and that was why daigo's stick was banned once. it is having two separate set of directional buttons, brianf was talking about it
I main Zafina and I play on keyboard... I realized over 20 years ago keyboard was best for fighting games and it took a LONG time to feel most comfortable on one.
I KBD by holding back (constant), tapping forward, neutral, down, neutral, forward, neutral down... sometimes you gotta hit that first forward twice to get it going. I barely bother blocking.
It's really THAT simple.
Agree, keyboard is amazing, it's quite complicated to do stuff like Geese's Raging Storm but for KBD and other stuff it's really easy
I just hold back, double hit F and have a good timing of D,F,D,F,D,F,D,F, same with waves
I'd like to try a hitbox tho, it's like a keyboard but looks way more comfortable, and the family won't try to murder me for playing
I play on keyboard too but I have to admit that it basically breaks fighting games. The whole point of movement, defending, and specials in fighting games is commitment. Even though hit box has an SOCD cleaner built in and emulators have them built in too, it doesn’t stop games from allowing a down charge and then pressing up to do like a flash kick in SFV without having to release down. That’s how the crossup arcade stick works too.
If people want to use whatever controller they want online and at home, then that’s their business but I do believe there should be a tournament standard at offline events.
Even without the SOCD cleaner, you always have an additional finger that is read to press ANY direction that’s macro’d to a key/button. I mean, there really isn’t an argument to be made.
The issue is also with the developers who allow a gamer to use dpad and analog stick at the same with the gamepads. I can even see issues with dpads being used too.
I prefer doing B, B, N, Db, N, B, Db... feels way more comfortable to me
Anyone who grew up gaming in the 90's arcades was homies with an Aris at their local arcade.
He is legit O.G.
Real talk! 👍🏿
"an aris" atpCap archetypical stoner
no you cannot forward dash while charging lol
this is something that was possible in some older games with keyboard, pad (using analog+dpad), or very early batches of hitboxes that didn't have SOCD cleaners, which effectively cancel forward+back into a neutral input at a hardware level
hitbox can be cheap and crossup can be even cheaper but i wish we could stick to like, actual realistic criticisms about the device instead of shit like thinking you can forward dash while charging or people losing their shit over some guy wavedashing with two hands or something
+1 100% agree.
charge partitioning? ruclips.net/video/NKd6UuN_mJs/видео.html
Oh don’t worry, there were a lot of actual criticisms in Aris’ video that isn’t forward dash charging.
That’s a minor counter point lol
Except you could? It got patched out, which is something developers should be coding into their engines, but I think that take is disingenuous.
As it stands, it is literally a corcked bat in a lot of fighting games still. It's fine for non-competitive players to make things as easy as they want, but they need to actually do a better job screening these peripherals for games like Tekken until the code catches up. Once the engine can clean the inputs itself, then who the hell cares what you play on. But it is rediculous to completely ignore the genuine cheating you can still do with pretty much every device except sticks. It doesn't matter if it's already "illegal" to use certain functions, no one is checking and they won't take action unless it's in everyone's face.
I think it's more like pine tar in baseball than a corked bat. There are legal and illegal sunstances to help pitchers get more spin. Umps only check if they think fans are noticing and it screws over pitchers that worked their ass off doing it the natural way.
Devilster is on keyboard too that's why he is so precise
Okay I agree to most things, but I am geniuinly curious on what the opinion is on the argument, on how advancements on certain things should possibly even be the norm. Since arcade sticks were a default, you have travel time and a much more difficult situation than a gamepad. The game pad has way way less travel time and the general execution is faster. Its still fine to use nonetheless. Then the hitbox came out and is not a step above a gamepad but now the limit is overdone? Why is it wrong to make things easier or more exciting by making them faster. When horses raced and the transition to cars happened, people were saying its unfair how much faster it is. of course it is but that is just the way advancements work. We always strive to make things as optimized as possible. Maybe a bad comparison but I hope you get what I mean. I would like to see this argument to be deducted.
Cars didn't enter horse racing tournaments when cars became the norm.
@@DMatt343 Maybe where you’re from. Just last night my horse raced a Camry and won. (I’m just kidding)
a big staple in fighting games is execution. that's been getting forgotten about more and more as the years go on, games become more lenient, and certain techniques are removed. but execution was a big thing that separated players from each other. the ability to perform at a high level under a lot of stress and still be able to perform very difficult techniques was a big reason why fighting games had a lot of appeal. making execution easier so that everyone can have good execution dilutes that aspect of the game and a lot of players don't enjoy having the skills they worked hard to obtain get undermined because the new players don't feel like grinding that aspect of the game. also making execution easier removes the excitement because it's no longer cool to see someone do a difficult combo if it's bnb levels of easy.
Hitboxes are dumbing down the difficulty. They are not advancements at all to the games.
If you're running the 100m at the olyimpics wearing flip-flops instead of the best running shoes money can buy, it ain't the other athletes fault.
I think going forward, FG's will be designed to circumvent these advantages because devs absolutely want games to be accessible.
Hard to do that when hardware-side SOCD cleaners manipulate the inputs that get sent to the game. Left + right = neutral from a Hitbox means the game code can't tell.
This issue won't be solved in Tekken 8 or maybe ever unless they ban everything but traditional pads and arcade sticks in tournaments.
@@epicon6 Default pads still have 2 movement levers that can be operated independently. So even with just stick and pad, Tekken 8 has to have SOCD cleaning in the game code from the get go.
@@MansMan42069 You actually don't need native in-game SOCD cleaning to fix that. Dpad and analog are two separate inputs as far as game controllers are concerned. If dpad and analog counted as a single input you wouldn't be able to have games where you could run and press the dpad to switch between weapons for example.
Simply blocking analog, or locking directional input to one or the other completely solves this issue.
@@davidburke4101 I know. Games could easily disable the left stick and not require a SOCD cleaner. But that won't work for leverless, since each direction is a discrete button and you can't disable it permanently.
The whole argument comes down to "hitbox should be banned cuz it is faster". Inputing two opposite directions at once is only a problem for old games, new games ***NEVER*** allow you to input two opposite directions at the same time, when they code the game they think about this kind of stuff. Being faster is not a good argument since pad is faster than lever and by the same logic it should also be banned, also pad CAN input two directions just like hitbox but inputing one direction on pad and the opposite on analog stick, may not be easy but it's possible.
Personally I think hitbox is better than lever, but trying to use logic to get it banned will never work cuz it doesn't break any rules it's just faster.
found the hitbox scrub
@@kviju I play on stick, but my brain still works so I don't go around regurgitating my favorite streamer opinions.
"my brain works"
proceeds to blame developers for not having the foresight to code a controller thats clearly used by bitches 20 years in the future.
lmao yeah sure bro, your brains working just fine
The way you think and the poor excuses to justify wrongs is disgusting. People like you are the most dishonest ones because you try to bend reality to your favor.
Aris says this and addresses it if you watch the original video. He says that he believes pads are also technically cheating but it wouldn't be wise to ban them because it's the default device that comes with the consoles they use in tournaments and banning them would be further gatekeeping an already niche pool of potential contenders
At approximately 7:00 in the video, a perplexing argument arises questioning the legitimacy of hitbox-style controllers, contending that their use amounts to cheating by eliminating side advantages. However, this perspective lacks coherence when considering the essence of competition and improvement within the realm of fighting games. The transition to a hitbox-style controller is not a violation but rather a logical evolution, marked by enhanced precision and faster inputs-all within the framework of user-initiated actions. Comparing this adaptation to the use of steroids is a flawed analogy, as a hitbox is more akin to adjusting one's form in weightlifting for better results. Just as someone might choose sumo deadlifts over standard for increased efficiency, opting for a hitbox is about refining input methods for better performance.
in simple terms. I use Hitbox , I think it is the best/ most advantageous controller there is, even making playing on joystick feel obsolete . THIS HOW EVER DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS CHEATING
“When you show up to a bodybuilding competition and everyone is natty…and then you show up with your hitbox…”
I died
As a keyboard player who previously used pad and stick: yeah it's busted. I'm perfectly fine with games patching in nerfs to prevent the 2D charge abuse or other tech. 3s Aris was playing doesn't register hitting both at the same time as a neutral in Fightcade and that's great. I will continue using keyboard/mix/hitbox either way for the speed, precision, and significantly less stress on my hands/wrists, and if they ban me from tournaments I just won't attend.
An easy solution is to prevent faster inputs that are humanly impossible with a pad/stick to be built into the game. All problems solved.
I was a keyboard player and later I switched to DS4 and I use analog stick for movements. The reason why I switched was that one of my finger always managed to press buttons faster than others so doing e.g. EWGF was pain in the ass because it would come out as f n d df df1 or f n d d1 df instead of f n d df1 or doing f fd d db b was horrible when I tried to play as Geese.
I don't think keyboard gives some kind of advantage over other types of controllers maybe only if you do direct and fast movements like fff
@@grinsekatzedecheshire7754 it's good that you're sharing your thoughts when you really don't know what you're talking about lol, pewgf is easier on keyboard because the buttons are right next to each other, and you're in a video where one of the top ranking tekken players explains exactly how a hitbox and kb give huge advantages you chimp
@@igorz4582 your reply got deleted
Good just stop attending now
Smacking big ol' buttons feels way more responsive than wiggling a joystick around.
Completely disagree and no it's not science. The only part of it that could arguably be an immutable law like you two are suggesting is the part where there are milliseconds of disparity between pressing a button and holding back on an arcade stick, even then I think the difference between the advantage of the former over the latter is being vastly overstated - moving a joystick from forward to back happens in an instant. Barring that sticks have the advantage of consistency of hand motions (playing 2P side with a leverless controller is a much bigger ordeal especially with command characters) and the reliability of microswitches being felt and heard with each directional input.
All control methods are viable and you said yourself that the world's best Kazuya plays on a stick, that's not a coincidence and it's not simply down to tradition otherwise all this epic science and objectively observable fact would have produced legions of superior players mopping the floor with that guy. I feel the efficacy of an arcade style controller with a lever is really being downplayed here and I don't care what Reddit or the barely sentient FGC has to say about microseconds of time saved or what's objectively better, most of these players have to remind themselves to breathe manually so I take what the consensus approved opinion is with some scepticism.
I'm old and love my arcade sticks but I also got a Hori Fightpad. Depending on the game that thing is easy mode. But Hitboxes and modern Keyboards are on a whole other level.
On a controller you can use the pad to enter a direction and the analog stick to enter the opposite direction No macros needed.
Brian_f also made a reply to this argument that Aris brought up, disagreeing with a couple of fair counter points about the HitBox and whatnot. Give it a go if you don't know him or if you want even more insight on the subject, it's pretty constructive.
If you really think that of Brian, it's clear that you don't follow him on RUclips or you're not familiar with him and you're failing to see his point of view.
Calling someone a "shill" for criticizing something is like...the opposite of being a "shill", just so you know...because he is openly criticizing the HitBox without any influence but his own experience with it.
I won't let you do him like that ma man, uh uh.
Aries opinion is invalid because socd is a thing, and yes you can push 2 directions on a pad…analog stick plus dpad. You guys didnt do no research 😂
Hitbox does socd cleaning, so you can't actually input opposite directions at once. In general, what is cheating and what is not is determined by what is normal. If the norm was to play with mittens on, anyone taking them off would be considered cheating, even if it's just the sensible thing to do. The hitbox is a better input device, but if someone playing on a microwave claimed that everyone else was cheating, they'd be laughed out of the room.
This being said, games could handle the inputs a lot better, but you certainly can't forward dash mid charge in any reputable games. It's faster to transition between charging and dashing, but due to socd clearing, you get neutral(sometimes the one you pressed last) when pressing both sides at once.
Also pads often don't do socd clearing, so you can use both an analog stick and the dpad to do funky stuff (pressing opposite sides in SFV gives you forward, which leads to pad exclusive mixups)
- Hitbox apologist
7:30
Picked up Tekken 7 as my first Tekken game in over 20 years and was doing perfect electrics on Kazuya reliably in less than half an hour fooling around on my keyboard. It's extremely snappy.
On pad doing electrics feels like a coin flip and KBD's and character control feels like you're waist deep in sludge. Pad also feels like you're going to break the thing and be out of $75 in a couple months from the wear and tear just moving around in Tekken requires.
100% agree and when you do learn kbd you thumb becomes sore as hell after some time.
Yes, and those things are quite a bit easier on a stick than on a pad as well, so we should ban sticks too then right?
really? I've been using the same PS4 pad for over one year and it's still not broken, and I main kazuya too
Pad is fine if you have always played on it
It's totally opposite for me lol
I couldn't do electrics consistently with keyboard but as soon as I switched to DS4 analog stick it became a lot easier. Nina's iWS1 too btw lol
I would just disagree with him where he said difficulty is completely subjective. Something being easier makes it more reliable and more viable.
In that instance, he was saying as in a move or movement in a game being difficult. Some people find it difficult some people dont, so its subjective. But in terms of a controller, yeah easier controllers are more viable for sure
Now we're saying stick is outdated? Damn we've come a long way. I remember the '09ers stroking the balltip of the arcade stick, saying it was by far superior to pad. The FGC I tell ya...
Stroking the tip 💀💀💀
It was the late ‘90ers (and millennials) who love the arcade sticks, due to how popular the actual real arcades were at the time.
Pad was very widespread by ‘09.
You can input back,forward,back then hit the button for charge moves to maximize your charge with those moves. There’s a speed difference still, but you can still do the same thing he’s describing
But you cannot push forward and backward at the same time.
@@RanEncounter yeah but without letting go of one of them you aren’t getting the input. It’s the same difference in that case.
@@GazettiSF But you get the constant backwards input. Just let go of forward and you block. You are still charging the move. You really are not making the argument you think you are.
@@RanEncounter if both inputs are being held, the controller and game reads neutral. you arent getting either. by doing the charge input like i said before, you are getting the same charge time that aris is describing.
@@GazettiSF "if both inputs are being held, the controller and game reads neutral. "
This heavily changes from game to game. Especially when charge buffering is in the game.
" you arent getting either"
Just because it says neutral does not mean you are not getting a charge. I really don't think you understand how different games work.
" by doing the charge input like i said before, you are getting the same charge time that aris is describing."
Again it really depends on the game. If you hold both buttons you get neutral in some games, but you can also map the buttons to not do that.
Even the controllers have different logic. For example computer keyboards you can have a toggle that makes it either neutral, both together or the first/last button pushed. No modification needed.
How is Hitbox cheating when everyone has access to it? Ur choosing your own disadvantage
im sure thats what the roided lifter said too the natty. very flawed
@@TFunk584 nah son, steroids is a BANNED substance which is different, if TO's came to a concensus that Hitboxes were considered unfair and banned at tournaments then that would be different but right now it's an allowed form of controller to play games therefore it isn't cheating, by definition cheating is knowingly or unknowingly utilizing tactics that are against the rules which hitboxes are legal and not cheating. Miss me with that argument.
@@humbledpanda2997 I mean, are any sports leagues or events sponsored by pharmaceutical companies producing steroids? Hitbox "supporting" tournaments kind of changes the argument a little bit as well
@@TFunk584 playing hitbox won’t make you a better player. Daigo and Tokido are arguably the best players in street fighter who play hitbox,yet they both lost to iDom who plays on pad. They can dash faster, walk forward and block faster, super faster, but they still lost to a pad player? If hitbox was so overpowered and broken then they should have won, but they didn’t. Also if you look at tournament results, the most wins are actually on pad. So are we going to ban pad now? No.
@@AIRFGC no, doesn't change anything. Equipment is available for ALL players to utilize, if you show up to a race on a bike and I show up in a vehicle you chose to come handicapped, can't cry about your disadvantage when ur choosing your weapon. If Hitbox is really unfair go get a hitbox and play on the level of the hutbox players. Fuck out of here, until the hitbox is banned its legal and fair period.
Do people just forget SOCD input cleaning exists? Illegal inputs are literally impossible. These anti-hitbox arguments are actually archaic, it's becoming comical
Hitbox is much faster and precise than stick. Stick is becoming outdated. Hitbox IS a better controller, but it is nowhere near the realm of cheating.
Bro people literally have SOCD cleaners built into their hitboxes on a hardware level. It's already over long before the inputs are received by whichever game.
@@MF_ZORO That's what I'm saying.
Sticks are a tradition that comes from arcades, something that isn't popular anymore. Consoles and PC's are popular and being used constantly though, that's how the crushing majority of people play, and the necessity that made Hitbox come into reality, "PC players that are used to keyboard, and either want to go to tournaments hosted on consoles, or want to play with friends that play only on consoles" is also still very much present
The reality is that stick owners are a dying breed. There's no reason to start playing fighting games in one except for nostalgia
in this thread/video: people that want to ban a more comfortable and precise controller because it's not the one they grew up with.
It's a wave of change, ride it or fall behind. Or keep winning on the controller you already used like nearly every tournament winner in every major fighting game ever since the hitbox became a thing. Also they don't seem to be aware that SOCD is standard in every controller and its really easy to check if you're that concerned about the competitive integrity of your event, just fucking press both buttons and see what happens.
Then learn how to use a hitbox dude. As a view of professionals, all I can say i that I want to see the highest level humanly possible playing the game. And if a hitbox allows you to do this better, then stop crying and learn hitbox.
And your example about being able to step to the weak side of a Mishima in a mirror match from P2 side.... It doesn't sound like that hit box breaks the game to me. It sounds more like a game development oversite that the hitbox has solved. I don't want the P1 fuckin Mishima to have an advantage over P2 ESPECIALLY if I'm watching competetive Tekken.... I don't EVER want to see something so unfair......
Your example is literally the best argument FOR hitboxes!
why would i waste my time for something that gets banned in the near future?
@@TFunk584 It's not going to get banned. I suspect they'll come to the same conclusion I have. And don't take me as a fan boy or anything, I play on a PS4 pad ;D
@@upplsuckimcool16 also accessibility, I persuaded 4 friends to try Tekken 7 and guess what, they're all have keyboard only. No one will spend money on sticks or pads because it's not worth it, to much time they would need to spend to even move properly using a stick.
Also durability, my dualschock controllers lasted for like 5 months, then switched to keyboard and it's fine for more than a year now.
Keyboard and Hitbox are undoubtedly better but he loses me when he says it's "cheating". Tekken 7 allows you to play on keyboard it's one of the main controller methods and it's designed that way. To choose to play on a stick means you are putting YOURSELF at a disadvantage, the other person isn't cheating by picking something better. Obviously if you wanna say Hitbox should be banned cause of concerns they are modding it thats a different argument all together.
Are you high. Its designed for arcade sticks
@@DreamsOfGaruda The old games. You really don't think the Tekken devs knew Tekken 7 would be played on keyboard? They have it sold on Steam and immediately you can start playing on keyboard with no set up at all. Don't be a fool. It's not cheating when you don't have to create something new or mod anything at all.
@@Rko453 It was released in Arcades. So it wasn't designed that way. It's compatible with KBD. That's a different story
I get the argument, but I hate this argument because everyone has the ability to pick up the same controller. Even the comparison to using steroids doesn't make sense. If they allow steroids in a competition, and you participate without steroids... that's on you. The same thing with broken characters, there are characters that are wayyyy overturned sometimes, and you see them being used everywhere... so just use them too. Nobody is forcing to play a low tier character. The only excuse I can find is that some players are used to the controller they have always used, and they just don't want to change. But at the highest level of competition, you HAVE to adapt.
I just have a question
Why should it be banned if it's a better standard that gives new player better way to play ?
Why should it be banned if it helps being perfect and developpers don't care about it ?
How is that cheating to use something that has just a better ergonomy ?
And why do we still have this debate since, cross on some pad controllers are straigt up the same thing ?
because it is something that the game was not designed for and breaks the game
Walking forward and blocking simultaneously is the antithesis of fighting games
Which you cannot do on Hit Box. Holding left + right does nothing.
@@VRFist but you can be walking forward and instantly press back to block, with no time from going front to back, which changes a character like guile a lot. or you can block a move and instantly ss without having to move your wrist
@@RustyRants cool, which rule did it break again?
@@RustyRants then on this line of reasoning then organizers should just standardize which particular brand to use. Different brands have totally different feelings to them and that will affect a lot of players.
@@RustyRants one, the transition is not instant and using a more effective tool is not cheating. Its your choice waht you play on and if you decide to not play on hit box when it is simply a more modern and effective controller then thats on you dude. Nothing it does is cheating.
Well you bring up the Mishima point. I'd easily counter by saying that you shouldn't have an advantage by just having a player 1 or player 2 side so the hit box simply fixes that. So I'd actually say just having player1 side would be cheating because you gwt an inherent advantage from no effort of your own.
Yeah and what happens when you put mishima on his non-dominant side.......
@@makeomengreatagain it doesn't matter, that disadvantage comes from the game, not the player skill.
@@SShaBazzz what if the person on p2 can play better mishima? Do you really think movement is all there is to tekken? Why are there then players winning on p2 side with mishimas?
@@ensar4115 them having better movement isn't the point. The fact that it's an inherent disadvantage is the main problem.
By your logic, hit box isn't really a problem at all because they may have the controller but the person with a Aecade stick has the better fundamentals and movement skill.
@@SShaBazzz I agree it is an inherent disadvantage but my point is, is that tekken isnt all about movement. There are more ways to win in tekken. I think this argument of yours makes no sense because you can't do anything about it. Ofcourse you can bring a hitbox, but for one tiny fault in the matchup you are agreeing to a cheater box who will be used by hundreds of players, and not only for kazuya. The hitbox is not a viable solution at all. This argument of yours sounds like an mma fighter trying to justify his steroid use.
Man you did Aris so dirty with that old picture of him lol
"if you dont sprain your wrist doing electrics on a stick YOUR NOT A REAL GAMER YOUR CHEATING"
im not young anymore also its not cheating if everyone already has access to a keyboard. stick users who cry about hitbox or keyboard are crying about the other person not handicapping themselves like they do.
Devilster is a KBD player, his movement is on another level even compared to Pro Jin players
Yes but he also plays with mixbox as well. There is a video of him vs Arslan Ash where he uses mixbox and not controller. He is skilled at all the controllers just so that he can participate at tournaments incase keyboard isn't allowed.
You can press Forwards & Backwards at the same time on any analogue PlayStation controller using Dpad & analogue.
Based on that logic, you should ban all PlayStation controllers
on a ds4 the dpad has priority over the analogue, inputting opposite directions at the same time never was and issue in modern games
@@aquilesca5tr0 And SOCD on Hitbox does exactly the same thing. What is your point???
@@Propa_Ganda_Panda no, socd on a hitbox allows you to do things like press from down to up without neutral and get down instead of neutral while pressing right+left+down, if socd was handled by the game they could use last input priority
@@aquilesca5tr0 yes, what I said is a fact. Don't go saying no, then sighting another topic.
You cannot press Forwards & Backwards on Hitbox at the same time. Don't backtrack on what you said.
@@Propa_Ganda_Panda you don´t understand the hitbox, the problem is that socd on the controller allows shortcuts that can´t be regulated
Yes you can do that on a controller and a stick, I do it all the time. There are 4 extra buttons on a stick to use if you play Tekken. I map down, left and right to three of them and thats is how I KBD. On a controller I map left and right to the back paddles. If your talking about SODC, that is banned in tournaments so the argument is stupid.
IMO, the best way to fix this problem is that FG game developers should include how input register work in their game and add a rule that people cannot change how input works in that. For example, Let us say this game X is released with their own input register format like left + right = left. If you used a controller that changes that default input register, then it should be bannable. If the controller doesnt break that format then it should be okay.
The fact the hitbox came out around the time I developed carpel tunnel was a godsend. If the hitbox gets banned I literally could not play fighting games anymore due to the pain I get playing on pad and stick that I don't seem to get playing box. Genuinely hope that doesn't happen would suck for people in the same situation as me. I enjoy doing locals sometimes and banning them would actively hurt my enjoyment so that's been my argument on the matter.
I'm ok with banning socd cleaning but an all together ban I'm personally against.
Aris' mods are immediate with the shots. I truly love his insight when he's really telling how it is.
For anyone who plays at competition level, earns money with it, and believes mixbox is an advantage, here's a crazy tip: just use it.
The only problem i can see with the argument is that if the idea is to ban Hitbox/Keyboard from tournaments because theyre unfair then why not just ban stick instead, other controllers are superior in every way, why make people play worse on outdated controllers instead of making the better ones the norm?
In protection of keybords.
There exist core moves fore some characters in some fighting games that require the player to input staff like ← ←+↓ ↓+→ → for example before pressing a button or a combination of buttons.
On a joystick those kinds of inputs are waaaaay easier, because you can acompilsh them with a single move of a finger.
Some fighting games, that are not tekken also require you to
actually push a dedicated buttton for a block, making the ability to hold ← and → at the same time not that useful in comparison, if not useless at all.
Im pretty sure tekken has block while moving back but,
You first reason is quite true.
In other fighting games, you have to insert that amount of input to just use the a move, especially special.
In this case, a Joystick would be a useful control item as i have managed to pull of a move with the same amount of inputs in quick succession with a very high possibility to pull it off.
I remember playing a Saint Seiya game with a character special of this input and managed to pull it off after knowing joystick is a movement input as well.
But wasn't the argument not about easier and harder? Because if you're a world class player it wouldn't matter because they would learn how to get over that? Thats what Aris basically said. Its a weak argument. I get that its hard for some players but they're talking about tournaments where people actually don't give a care about what's easier and whats harder in terms of input because the mix,hit,keyboard etc gives an advantage beyond just doing things easier, its an advantage that you physically cannot replicate if you do not have the same tool. Unless I read your comment wrong and you can just ignore this.
@@26thTori then, wouldn't they rather recommend themselves to play with mixes and boards either?
Like TMM said, sticks are just an old school feel, i would love to try them.
I can see why people somewhat gets annoyed of player using Box and boards since i just discover myself they have extra directional inputs that lets you access some moves faster.
Idk why would it be an advantage against stick?
Is it because stick has to return to neutral for it to string another direction input.
@@Marleigh_san Well it goes down to tradition for that first part. As mentioned by Lord Aris and TMM we played these games on arcade and by extension stick/pad. They're the tools that were given to play these games and they have limitations such as highlighted, the double input directionals. The games were designed with the idea of using these tools. But now we have tools that can surpass the design of the game. So question it a bit, should we use a tool that overcomes the design for the game in tournaments (Like using a cork bat as Lord Aris mentioned)? Should we use a tool that the game never thought intended to exist? And because of that the design of the game is now flawed. I'm not the one to judge this because I have no authority to so I'll pose that question back to you. Is it fair?
Why it would be an advantage, well that can be summed up by taking into account what the double directional inputs means against stick. What a double directional does is that gives a player the ability to do things that is simply impossible for players that aren't using the same tool to do the same. Blocking is much different with double directional because you can move forward and block much faster just because you can use both movement buttons at the same time, ensuring that you can block at an exact frame from when you stop moving forward. In stick/pad you cannot do that simply because you have to reset to neutral.
There has to be rules. Personally, you should watch Aris' full video because he makes great points on this and better examples. I basically butchered what they said in this comment.
@@26thTori it's not simply easier/harder - it's also faster/slower, with a vastly different skillfloor level of execution.
A joystick player needs to move his finger once, twice at most, that is it.
A keybord player needs to input multiple inputs one after another.
Unless you are playing some briandead easy to execute characters - one can argue, that using a keyboard will actually either SLOW you down or even straight up restrict your moveset.
Keyboard is not simply an upgrade - it's a trade off, that requires you to work for it.
When I see or hear Aris the first things that come to mind are:
"Your comment is trash and dumb to smoke!"
"Chicken on a stick!"
"Harada played the violine in this game?!"
And "unbreakable european grab"
Cool dude
_"We need to get water in his lungs immediately!"_
i am a hori hayabusa noir tekken edition. i have hayabusa lever but swapped it into sanwa parts. even still if my opponent is using a mixbox i dont mind. its just so happen that they are modern fighters and us are simply the classic one like in tekken if your character has unfair advantage just simply adapt or use that broken character and join the band wagon to even the playing field. what i mean we are in a modern age now that all methods of controler are being used whether its a steering wheel if thats where you are comfortable of using..
How are leverless controllers unfair since anyone can get one? Some are cheaper than a ps5 controller. No one forces you to play on arcade stick. If you refuse to adapt, it's on you and noone else.
In any sport competiters get the best gear they can, instead of complaining others do... lol I don't understand how there's even a debate.
If u listen closely, u can hear the dinosaurs in the back.
😂😂😂😂
When something comes out that completely invalidates something else, generally the smart thing to do is to adopt it as the new standard instead of screaming about it on twitter.
It's like if you insist on playing on a tv remote, then call me a cheater because i play on a normal controller.
Tell that to corked bats in baseball and loaded gloves in boxing.
K I'll be seeing you in bracket with my new macro controller
As person who suffers from carpal tunnel it sucks trying to play my favorite fighting game with pain is ass. Sure is using a hit box cheating? I guess? Do I need to show my medical card in order to use a hit box? Try to feel that nerve pain it’s awful. Kinda sad that they don’t take consideration about someone’s else hands.
It's not cheating, it's just dumb boomers coping as usual
Are you playing competitive? If no, then this doesn't apply to you as stated in the video: casual/at home you can do whatever. They are talking about standardizing competitive play to a somewhat even play field.
@@DrHKotes what about people who want to go to local tournaments?
oh my god botton boxes are not cheating. Its just a better controller, people need to stop whining and take the "professional" part of professional fight game player seriously. This would be like whining about how your opponents training or nutrition in the ufc was better so they won. You dont like it because you grew up on fighting sticks so you get stuck in the mud because you are precious about the controller. Also you cannot press two directions or charge while moving forward, back + forward = neutral. And if you are a pro complaining about this get over it, its your job, you literally get paid to get gud, use the better controller or get out of the way.
"Look at the time! Look at the TIME! LOOK AT THE TIIIIIIIMMME!!!"
false you can input 2 directions at the same time with regular ps4 pad: using d pad and the stick at the same time, and yes players do that: famously knuckledu
Yup, totally agree. I play on stick because it's easier on my hands and I can play for hours without my fingers hurting (pad) or my hand going numb (keyboard) But when I was playing keyboard my execution with Kazuya in just a couple months was unreal. I main Law and I can't dss on keyboard or pad because I get the timing wrong by pressing b,f,f faster than I should because the directions can be pressed faster with these controllers.
Ppl purposely put themselves in disadvantage by using sticks to play and then complain that there’s much better controllers to play games better and faster lol
these are facts, another fact is that leverless is the future no doubt... unless they redesign the games somehow... so lets all jump on hitboxes so that we at least compete on same devices, period
If a Mishima mirror match gives an inherent advantage to P1 side, because you can't step left in certain situations only on P2 side, it is not Hitbox that breaks the game but Stick. Hitbox rather, is the controller, which equals the playing field.
"Hitbox rather, is the controller, which equals the playing field"
@@MrBroken030 I hate people like you so much because you don't realize the hypocrisy in your words now that you are not the one with the best controller. I still remember the time in the fgc when everyone was like: "just buy an arcade stick bro"
Now I can just say the same, just buy an hitbox stop complaining
If there is a strictly-better input method available than it's the player's fault for not adapting
Actually, people that want to take shots at marduck mains are just making excuses for losing. Nothing is stopping a kazuya main from using marduck. I can’t stand people that use a Mishima just to have an excuse for losing…. “Ohh I’m using a Mishima, that’s why I lose. My character is soooo much harder to use.” That’s so obnoxious.
Can anyone give me a legit reason to play on stick? I 100% believe in SOCD on both hardware and software side and accept going forward, something needs to be done about it. But why would anyone want to play on stick when it's clearly the most inferior peripheral? When TMM talks about losing to a 15 year old on keyboard, I don't question the 15yo, I wonder why TMM isn't also using keyboard. Whenever someone tells me to use stick and I ask why, the response is always, "Because I'm 40 years old and it's what I grew up with in the 90's". That shit was 30 years ago, the future is now, old man. Why would you intentionally gimp yourself and then blame the other person?
FGC Boomers gotta stand united as time passes them by I guess.
My thoughts are that, if keyboards and hitboxes are legal in tourneys, everyone should be playing on them. If you are going to compete, why intentionally put yourself at a disadvantage? I don't look at it like someone taking steroids. I look at it like someone playing in the NBA with flip flops or a bicycle race with baggy clothes. There is a better legal option that you are choosing not to use.
@@AnasAlhrby Ok but it's a tournament. And I the "it plays for you" is blatant lie. It opens up more options but you do have to practice and learn those options
@@AnasAlhrby it's not cheating if the tournament allows it. Like being in a drag race and calling the other guy a cheater because he brought a faster car 🤣
@@AnasAlhrby lowering the barrier of entry is crucial for the survival of fighting games.
14:14 Aris mods are trigger happy snipers. You get shot before you get to even finish what you say and they leave a note in your corpse saying, "do not unban!".
Hitbox is cheating if u can press both inputs at once but nowadays it just causes a neutral input and it’s banned if it doesn’t or the game has it coded out saying it is cheating because it’s faster and more precise is braindead
Yeah Namco fix crouching to foreground side stepping in T8.....p1 vs p2 advantages should not be a thing.
By your logic currently P2 is at disadvantage when using the stick. Hitbox and keyboards even those odds and make the matchup fair.
charging while walking forward does not work. the hitbox has a board specifically for resolving impossible inputs.
it is the same as with blocking, the advantage comes from starting your charge the frame you let go of forward, because you're already holding back.
This is such a boomer outlook. This must've been how folks who drove horse and carriage felt when an automobile passed them by. I still love you TMM
The issue is allowing an automobile in a horse race. That should be a different event.
Being able to step inside (SSL on 2P after forced crouch) doesn't break the game, it fixes it. Your advantage doesn't depend on one rock paper scissors before the match. Also you can do two opposite direction on a gamepad, just use both the d-pad and the analog stick. SFV players do it for charge characters for years.
Consistency is literally one of the pillars of competitive and hitbox changes the games we've been playing for years.
People who have been playing on keyboard for 20 years would disagree lol
What? Knee just won this year’s EVO using his own fight stick. And Arslan Ash won EVO 2019 using his HORI Real Arcade Pro N Hayabusa with that fight stick.
Keyboard is physically faster and easier to input on, but i dont like listening to misconceptions, i dont know how ur hit boxes and mix boxes work, but on keyboard pressing opposite directions gives you neutral, so charge characters dont get charge when you press back+forward or down+up, but for me all this whining abount cheating and steroids sounds like if counter strike pros would be crying about people using optical mice instead of GOOD OLD BALL MOUSE, cuz it gives you speed and precision and that is unfair advantage (even though everybody can buy this shit if they want to and if they need to)