"Abandoning that body that is weighing us down" so, basically, it's manichean and gnostic. Our faith is incarnational and we have bodies for a reason. As we are to become saints, we become so in the body. Even the physical restrictions and silny serve a purpose, because Our Lord came in the body, suffered in the body, and was resurrected in the body.
Fr Baggot is the right person to tangle with these thinkers. He paraphrases them with a smile- to the point where he seems almost sympathetic to them- but then raises the profound lack of Catholic philosophical grounding transhumanists display.
As a healthcare student who tried to survive/tolerate the "Healthcare ethics" course last semester without attacking my super-woke professor, I feel so related to ALL the topics Fr. Michael mentioned in this podcast. I actually feel relieved and have confidence in Catholic teaching; especially, after listening to the explanation from a well-rounded Catholic Educator about these crazy ideologies in the healthcare field.
I went to a Legionary school in Saltillo Mex for primary school! It was amazing, daily Communion and Confession with a great Priest who I still think was the reason I am an observant Not perfect but trying) Catholic today!
This person is just expressing their gratitude and positive experience for attending a particular legionary school. But instead people want to try to negate that “lived experience” by bringing up other peoples negative experiences. Those who abuse others within the church do so not only to satisfy their own agendas, but to wound and hurt Mother Church. Those individuals should be exposed and punished. But others should be free to share the goodness they found without qualifications. Don’t let the darkness crowd out the light!
It's a wonderful treat seeing former Christendom classmate Fr. Baggot on PWA. God bless you and your work, Father! Know that your smile and your holy joy has stuck with me and that, for years, you often come to mind and are prayed for regularly. May we continue authentically restoring all things in Christ.
I can see how so many ideas and philosophies, from spiritual to materialist ideologies, have been propagated over the last couple of hundred years… leading us to the precipice edge that we have now come to… the blind acceptance of transhumanism. Let us turn away from worldly ideas and turn toward our God…. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One God forever and ever. Amen.🙏🏻 🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@Heracleetus It’s a real worry when even the faithful start talking about the possible “pros and cons” of playing God. There is so much in this discussion that I just found very disturbing. Let us not give even an inch to the evil one who loves it when he inspires these sorts of conversations that complicate issues that are actually very simple.
I disagree. I think his excitement comes from it being his thesis/interest (I get the same way when talking about true crime, yet I'm adamantly anti-murder). He brought up all the many ways that this technology will harm humans spiritually without straw-manning those who espouse it.
Lol, this guy. Homo Deus on every bodily system but delaying pregnancy is a sin? And the two of them equating medically necessary interventions, like a pacemaker, with procedures that enhance (and supersede) an already healthy human is gross.
This topic terrified me. So much so, that I intentionally passed over this episode in fear…for about three weeks. Over the past two days, I dove in, and I am grateful I did. This is a hard topic, with many hard questions. While Fr. Michael (appears to have) few answers, he has something more significant: a firm foundation and formation, which will lead to the right (or best) answers. In fact, not only am I no longer afraid, but I want to join the fight and learn what I can on the subject. I would love to see a Part II, where those with fears as I had can ask their questions and receive what answers Fr. Michael may have. Good work, Matt Fradd and Thursday. Keep it up, for the glory of God.
Way to go Fr. Michael for shining the Catholic light on this contemporary phenomenon; the Church will be the rock, that stronghold to ground humanity in it's true created identity!
It seems some people in the comments don't realize that Father is anti transhumanist. He clearly states that only way for us to transcend our fallen nature is through Christ and his Church. Not from our faulty and largely ill conceived technologies.
Not the audience's mistake. If he's at all against it, he falls very short of making it clear. Imagine talking about something as evil as satanism or abortion for 90 minutes and giving ZERO clear impression (let alone a clear statement) that it's evil and you disavow it.
It was clear if you listen to his words. He first says what transhumanists believe, then discusses the problems with each of their ideas. It's like how Aquinas proposes and idea he may not agree with, then dismantles it.
Father has a nuanced take. If you are listening this in the background and aren't paying attention you can miss why he is saying what he's saying. Also he's not giving out red-meat for the trads
Alex Jones put it perfectly when it comes to Transhumanism, he said these people that are pushing for it don't believe in God and don't believe there's a afterlife, they believe when you're dead you're dead, but at the same time they wanna live forever so they believe uploading yourself into a machine will beat death when really they're just denying themselves to go to paradise, but I guess the majority of those people are going south when they die if you get my drift
I mean... since we have souls I would point out that they wouldn't live any longer. A copy of them would be created while the actual human person goes (probably) south.
This was an excellent episode; we need more discussions like this, more often. One PSA for everyone: Fr. Michael should've mentioned that TV shows such as Black Mirror should be watched via a service such as VidAngel.
56:00 is where it ALL begins!!! Absolutely beautiful and to quote Dante!! Dante's Divine Comedy just so happens to be the structure that the Holy Spirit called me to use in my book that is unveiling the evils of post-humanism entitled "The Seven Storey Garden: Memoir of a Rogue New Materialist." So beautiful how Our Lord the giver of Life lines things up!!
I have a severe non verbal autistic daughter. (She’s almost 5) She has never spoken a single word or even an utterance that sounds like a word. There has been talk of future implants that will allow disabled people like my daughter to speak. Obviously mostly theoretical talks right now, but we know how fast technology is moving. Who knows, next year it might not be so theoretical. I would be lying if I said it wasn’t tempting. It’s heartbreaking to never hear your child’s voice. It’s a grief I cannot explain. But… I feel like I would say no. Would she still be my daughter if she could suddenly talk? Would she even be the same child I gave birth to, nursed, raised up? Perhaps God had a reason for her lack of speech that is much greater than any understanding we could have in this earthly life. Perhaps the sudden onset of speech would terrify her, or change her negatively in some way. Perhaps her brain is designed in such a way that forcing speech through artificial means would simply “break” it. It just feels wrong. It feels like making a deal with the devil. Again though, the temptation is there…
God bless you, your daughter, and your family. In your shoes, I don't know what I would do either if such a decision was possible suddenly. People place cochlear implants all the time to help their children hear...helping her talk might be similar...or might not. I see the dilemma.
Have you heard of the Davis method? Ron Davis was a non verbal autist born in the 1940s who taught himself how to speak and read. Take care and God bless
If we are to believe that there is a divine purpose for every ailment and impairment there is then you should also oppose the use of eyeglasses, dental braces, cochlear implants, orthognathic and orthopedic surgeries and so on. Besides, who is to say that these technologies aren't divinely ordained themselves ? Maybe God wants people to wear glasses for all we know. The same logic applies to brain implants.
Another Protestant author to read who's addressed the topic of Transhumanism in recent years is John Lennox. He's written one book on this theme called "2084: Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Humanity". He's also had a number of interviews and done some lectures on this topic, which are on RUclips.
So much food for thought. Disembodied relationships? I have mine with the angels, saints and God, these are not virtual relationships but real..... or to be truthful unreal. Thanks Fr Michael & Matt.
This was a GREAT episode! I listen to them all, but this was one of my favorites. I loved both the discussion of science as it is, and the advice of a good priest on how to address these really troubling ideas
As a former New Materialist (trans/posthumanism on steriods) and now a full blown Catholic i am very excited about this interview. According to Liedeke Plate, "new materialism (and new materialisms) is part of the material turn currently sweeping through the humanities and social sciences and entails a paradigm shift toward a more material(ist) understanding of social and cultural life... At its most radical, new materialism is posthumanist, part of the nonhuman turn." Im still puzzled as to why no trans/posthumanist scholar (especially Christian scholars) outside the radical left has begun to take new materialism seriously especially given its 100% laying the foundation for phase II of wokism. I sincerely hope this is discussed or at least acknowledged. New materialism’s underlying and explicit occultism is absolutely terrifying especially when one looks at it orgins that reside in nonother than the "Great sorceror" himself Gilles Deleuze (bff w/ Michel Foucault). In Christ, A rogue new materialist
So in relation to the quote of the new materialism (never heard the term before, thanks), would you say that the current tendency for incorporating non-human or 'more than human' agents, as it's currently in social sciences for instance, might be seen as related to this 'material turn'?
@hansblitz7770 and hence the issue!! You probably know what transgender is correct? But if I were to approach you in 2010 with some "over socialized mumbo jumbo" called post modernism you'd dismiss it? And why? Marxism is another great example!! In its earlier form it was masked in impenetrable concepts that folks often dismissed as "mumbo jumbo" that later sprouted into a VERY REAL worldview that killed millions!! New Materialism is NOW... One such concept that is intentionally masked under difficult concepts so folks will dismiss it as postmodern gibberish when in fact it's home to one of the most potent and EVIL ideologies we have faced. Just saying... In Christ, Eric
2:08:36 Moratorium is Latin, but not cognate (etymologically connected) to the verb morior (to die). Rather, it comes from the verb morari, moror, moratus sum, which means "to linger, loiter; to delay, hinder". A moratorium is not the absolute prohibition, just a delay for an unforeseeable time. Great discussion!
Thanks but no thanks. I’m okay with living out the remaining years of my life blissfully with my “hunk of flesh” which embodies my spirit and my soul as God created me! Yes, I understand my body is slowly declining. I do all I can to physically feel great every day. I’ll walk this earthly journey to the end with peaceful bliss as I worship Jesus Christ and help my fellow man.
Ghost in the Shell dealt with a lot of the dystopian effects of these technologies (if anime is your thing). There's a movie from 1995 and then some series. Do be advised, it is not for children, and has lots of violence and sexually suggestive content.
Transhumanism almost seems to be an inverse of the Little Way. Where we no longer are humbled by our littleness, our weakness and dependence on God, but are driven to overcome it through means other than those naturally provided for us.
The transhumanists would of course never describe it this way, but in some sense they are trying to turn humans into angels - and are of course completely unable to comprehend the heights of angels and evils of demons.
@Pints With Aquinas Do you plan to keep up with your rumble channel, we have had no updates there in a month, and I would rather support them then youtube if I can.
Transhumanism seems an attempt to ameliorate the effects of the fall, but still attempting to achieve divine status: eternality, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence…
Rothblatt and his "wife," also a biological man posing as a woman, started a transhumanist religion, "Terasem." Many members are transgender. What are the beliefs of terasem? Terasem comes from the Greek word for 'Earthseed' and is organized around four core tenets- "life is purposeful, death is optional, God is technological and love is essential."
Something that confuses me about the 'uploading yourself' concept is that even if it were possible to make a digitized copy, you still exist in your body, so you don't actually continue on, your digital copy exists separated from you, you still have to die. So even without getting into any spiritual aspects, it's still kind of stupid on the face...you don't get to experience anything, your theoretical copy does.
...to the very attenuated extent that there can be "experience" in a digital environment. Even if the entire brain could be mapped, there isn't a one-to-one relationship between the signal going through a neuron and a particular aspect of the external environment. It's great for people with I/O breakdowns that we can engineer a bridge for the input and output, but it's clearly just a tool for that one specific task, not a self-contained ecosystem.
True. Without a body, how does one experience pleasure...and if you download your memory into a computer or even your intellect, will it be capable of a new thought or is it just capable of running through the old ones? The whole metaverse idea is so confusing and horrifying to me. I don't see the appeal unless you truly believe there is nothing beyond this life. That's why it does concern me. The atheist lie could trap people in the metaverse. Matt has said in the past about having evangelization efforts in the metaverse but I don't see how one would do that unless it is like a matrix type situation where you can plug in or out.
Every time you go to sleep you lose consciousness (there is a phase where you are neither awake nor dreaming), so the stream of consciousness is already something discontinuous for humans (we also have black outs from drinking alcohol, fainting or getting under general anesthesia). One could make the argument that a digital copy of yourself would be similar to waking up from anesthesia. Philosophically, I can't even be sure that I really existed yesterday and that my memories haven't been implanted in me just three hours ago. Our feeling of being a unique person that persists through time is not something we can rationally prove to ourselves, which is why the question of persistence of personal identity is such a difficult metaphysical question. So one simple answer to your question might be that yes, making a digital copy of oneself does not prevent one from the experience of dying, but that this experience might be indistinguishable from what we go through when we go under general anesthesia and then wake up, or indeed when we go to sleep, lose consciousness and then wake up. It might seem far fetched but when you think about it, when you go under anesthesia you are unafraid because you are confident that a future version of yourself will continue to exist, even though your consciousness will be temporarily shut down.
“Her” was a thought-provoking and well made film, though I found the ending to be troubling and thoroughly gnostic. Additionally, the movie “Lars and the Real Girl” (starring Ryan Gosling) addresses similar topics. And more recently, the animated TV series “Pantheon” is laser-focused on the issue of consciousness uploading. One caveat: while entertaining, I get the distinct impression that many of these productions have been tasked with putting a “positive spin” on transhumanist and posthumanist issues. Watch with discernment.
No one seems to have qualms and fears about the denial of food and housing for others around the globe. Why are transhumanist supporters ignoring these issues we’ve had for thousands of years?
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal That's not true, as a matter of fact one of the core tenets of transhumanism is that we ought to abolish all forms of suffering for all sentient beings, which is something that David Pearce (co-founder of the World Transhumanist Association) has discussed abundantly in The Hedonistic Imperative.
16:47 never thought I would see Emile Ratelband here, he calls himself a positive thinking guru and introduced NLP in the Netherlands, I grew up in the same city.
Playing God is always potentially dangerous. Matt mentioned that the appendix is “useless,” but that’s based on human knowledge of decades past. We now know that the appendix is, in fact, important. And that’s why transhumanism (and transgenderism) scares the hell out of me, and seems like moving away from God.
Enhancing people for the common good might also be detrimental to those people in lots of subtle ways. Maybe we get a better concert pianist or air traffic controller that ends up resorting to alcoholism because they are unhappy in their vocations.
Seriously!!! It's as if these people have never had a good fairy tale told to them. I know some children that could articulate why transhumanism is obviously a bad idea.
It will be very difficult for Catholics to object to Transhumanism without being deeply anti-modern. Example: Neurolink is going to allow blind people to see. Will Catholics object? But it will also allow us to more easily interface with the Machine. Neurolink will allow for quadriplegics to walk. But it will allow us to interface our minds with cyborg like mechanisms. When your mind is integrated with the Machine to that degree where does your mind stop and the Machine start? Is Apple photos part of your memory? What about when you can access them with a thought. I haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but if this interview doesn’t mention the Jesuit Teilhard De Chardin the it’s a miss.
@@bethmcmullan7686 He dances around them. But doesn’t give concrete doctrine about what the response should be. I think the answer would be distasteful to most modern Catholics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it correct to say transhumanism is similar to a materialist gnosticism? Existing as a disembodied human consciousness (spiritual reality) is better than human consciousness within the flesh (physical reality)?
No because transhumanism proposes no such thing as disembodied consciousness, even a digital consciousness would supervene on a physical substrate, namely a computer. What's more, a lot of transhumanists don't even believe that it's possible to upload human consciousness on a digital computer. Most transhumanists focus on more realistic technologies like genetic engineering, pharmaceuticals, protheses, brain implants, etc.
Just came here to say Alex Jones said this thinking was on its way years ago. Can’t remember if it’s his interview on Tucker or when Joe Rogan interviewed Tucker and they show Alex saying this is how the people in power think.
You should check out the “transcension hypothesis” by futurist John Smart. It was published by NASA as a proposed answer to Fermi’s paradox. Basically, the theory goes that since technology is becoming increasingly compressed and efficient, all intelligent life inevitably reaches Black Hole-levels of computation.
I’ve really enjoyed this video. I find it interesting how much discussion there actually has been on this in popular culture. One thing that comes to mind is the movie starring Helen Mirren and Jeff Bridges,The Giver, which is based on a book by Lois Lowry of the same title. Have you read that book?
Cyberpunk 2077(video game from a couple years back) there is a conversation between what seems like a Roman Catholic on a talk show talking about the state of man with all the augments. It is surreal to be see REAL people talking about this stuff now.
regarding Matt's comments on watching shows that have sexually explicit content; what about watching using a filtering app like Vidangel? We watch all shows and just turn off sexual content. It's great!
Transhumanism without God is meaningless. But to look at it through Christ’s transfiguration, and Paul’s teaching on transformation after death that starts even now, I find acceptable.
Man. This conversation actually physically hurt. You guys are lovely, but the ideas given here are so ungodly, so satanic, that even just interested listening on an informative level was painful. I never thought abortion and transgenderism could be beat in terms of pure evil…
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"Abandoning that body that is weighing us down" so, basically, it's manichean and gnostic. Our faith is incarnational and we have bodies for a reason. As we are to become saints, we become so in the body. Even the physical restrictions and silny serve a purpose, because Our Lord came in the body, suffered in the body, and was resurrected in the body.
Fr Baggot is the right person to tangle with these thinkers. He paraphrases them with a smile- to the point where he seems almost sympathetic to them- but then raises the profound lack of Catholic philosophical grounding transhumanists display.
I feel that the same critical thinking he uses here, ought to be used against the organization he represents.
@@revertrevertz5438(tips fedora)
As a healthcare student who tried to survive/tolerate the "Healthcare ethics" course last semester without attacking my super-woke professor, I feel so related to ALL the topics Fr. Michael mentioned in this podcast. I actually feel relieved and have confidence in Catholic teaching; especially, after listening to the explanation from a well-rounded Catholic Educator about these crazy ideologies in the healthcare field.
I went to a Legionary school in Saltillo Mex for primary school! It was amazing, daily Communion and Confession with a great Priest who I still think was the reason I am an observant Not perfect but trying) Catholic today!
¡Venga Tu Reino!
@@apcuenalo sigo poniendo en mis cuadernos! ¡Venga Tu Reino!
You don’t mind the amount of harm these people have done onto others and the Church? How many children have not suffered at their schools?
This person is just expressing their gratitude and positive experience for attending a particular legionary school. But instead people want to try to negate that “lived experience” by bringing up other peoples negative experiences. Those who abuse others within the church do so not only to satisfy their own agendas, but to wound and hurt Mother Church. Those individuals should be exposed and punished. But others should be free to share the goodness they found without qualifications.
Don’t let the darkness crowd out the light!
@@rettaroo5972 so ww should negate other’s experience because one kid had fun while the other were tramautised?
Fr. Michael is an incredibly smart and loving priest. Truly incredible. I am blessed to have been taught by him at the Catholic Worldview Fellowship.
I hope this quality will help him see the problems his congregation represents.
It's a wonderful treat seeing former Christendom classmate Fr. Baggot on PWA. God bless you and your work, Father! Know that your smile and your holy joy has stuck with me and that, for years, you often come to mind and are prayed for regularly. May we continue authentically restoring all things in Christ.
I can see how so many ideas and philosophies, from spiritual to materialist ideologies, have been propagated over the last couple of hundred years… leading us to the precipice edge that we have now come to… the blind acceptance of transhumanism. Let us turn away from worldly ideas and turn toward our God…. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One God forever and ever. Amen.🙏🏻 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Yeah, this priest sounds very excited. I got no indication that he sees it for the evil that it is
@@Heracleetus It’s a real worry when even the faithful start talking about the possible “pros and cons” of playing God. There is so much in this discussion that I just found very disturbing. Let us not give even an inch to the evil one who loves it when he inspires these sorts of conversations that complicate issues that are actually very simple.
I disagree. I think his excitement comes from it being his thesis/interest (I get the same way when talking about true crime, yet I'm adamantly anti-murder). He brought up all the many ways that this technology will harm humans spiritually without straw-manning those who espouse it.
@@rosecorcoran I got the same impression
Lol, this guy. Homo Deus on every bodily system but delaying pregnancy is a sin?
And the two of them equating medically necessary interventions, like a pacemaker, with procedures that enhance (and supersede) an already healthy human is gross.
This topic terrified me.
So much so, that I intentionally passed over this episode in fear…for about three weeks.
Over the past two days, I dove in, and I am grateful I did.
This is a hard topic, with many hard questions. While Fr. Michael (appears to have) few answers, he has something more significant: a firm foundation and formation, which will lead to the right (or best) answers. In fact, not only am I no longer afraid, but I want to join the fight and learn what I can on the subject.
I would love to see a Part II, where those with fears as I had can ask their questions and receive what answers Fr. Michael may have.
Good work, Matt Fradd and Thursday. Keep it up, for the glory of God.
Way to go Fr. Michael for shining the Catholic light on this contemporary phenomenon; the Church will be the rock, that stronghold to ground humanity in it's true created identity!
It seems some people in the comments don't realize that Father is anti transhumanist. He clearly states that only way for us to transcend our fallen nature is through Christ and his Church. Not from our faulty and largely ill conceived technologies.
Not the audience's mistake. If he's at all against it, he falls very short of making it clear. Imagine talking about something as evil as satanism or abortion for 90 minutes and giving ZERO clear impression (let alone a clear statement) that it's evil and you disavow it.
It was clear if you listen to his words. He first says what transhumanists believe, then discusses the problems with each of their ideas. It's like how Aquinas proposes and idea he may not agree with, then dismantles it.
Father has a nuanced take. If you are listening this in the background and aren't paying attention you can miss why he is saying what he's saying.
Also he's not giving out red-meat for the trads
At what point did he say that? It was hardly clear.
It was very easy to forget that he was speaking as the voice of the supporters. Definitely not an episode for a casual listener.
Alex Jones put it perfectly when it comes to Transhumanism, he said these people that are pushing for it don't believe in God and don't believe there's a afterlife, they believe when you're dead you're dead, but at the same time they wanna live forever so they believe uploading yourself into a machine will beat death when really they're just denying themselves to go to paradise, but I guess the majority of those people are going south when they die if you get my drift
I mean... since we have souls I would point out that they wouldn't live any longer. A copy of them would be created while the actual human person goes (probably) south.
This was an excellent episode; we need more discussions like this, more often.
One PSA for everyone: Fr. Michael should've mentioned that TV shows such as Black Mirror should be watched via a service such as VidAngel.
Wooo shout out to the Catholic Worldview Fellowship! Best summer of my life, Walter House for life. Hope you're doing well Fr. Baggot!
56:00 is where it ALL begins!!! Absolutely beautiful and to quote Dante!!
Dante's Divine Comedy just so happens to be the structure that the Holy Spirit called me to use in my book that is unveiling the evils of post-humanism entitled "The Seven Storey Garden: Memoir of a Rogue New Materialist."
So beautiful how Our Lord the giver of Life lines things up!!
Fr Michael Baggot is solid!! Excited to watch it!
I have a severe non verbal autistic daughter. (She’s almost 5)
She has never spoken a single word or even an utterance that sounds like a word.
There has been talk of future implants that will allow disabled people like my daughter to speak. Obviously mostly theoretical talks right now, but we know how fast technology is moving. Who knows, next year it might not be so theoretical.
I would be lying if I said it wasn’t tempting. It’s heartbreaking to never hear your child’s voice. It’s a grief I cannot explain.
But… I feel like I would say no. Would she still be my daughter if she could suddenly talk? Would she even be the same child I gave birth to, nursed, raised up? Perhaps God had a reason for her lack of speech that is much greater than any understanding we could have in this earthly life. Perhaps the sudden onset of speech would terrify her, or change her negatively in some way. Perhaps her brain is designed in such a way that forcing speech through artificial means would simply “break” it. It just feels wrong. It feels like making a deal with the devil.
Again though, the temptation is there…
God bless you, your daughter, and your family. In your shoes, I don't know what I would do either if such a decision was possible suddenly. People place cochlear implants all the time to help their children hear...helping her talk might be similar...or might not. I see the dilemma.
@@lahair5751 thank you. ❤️
Have you heard of the Davis method? Ron Davis was a non verbal autist born in the 1940s who taught himself how to speak and read. Take care and God bless
God bless you.
If we are to believe that there is a divine purpose for every ailment and impairment there is then you should also oppose the use of eyeglasses, dental braces, cochlear implants, orthognathic and orthopedic surgeries and so on. Besides, who is to say that these technologies aren't divinely ordained themselves ? Maybe God wants people to wear glasses for all we know. The same logic applies to brain implants.
Fr. Baggot seems super nice and super smart
Another Protestant author to read who's addressed the topic of Transhumanism in recent years is John Lennox. He's written one book on this theme called "2084: Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Humanity". He's also had a number of interviews and done some lectures on this topic, which are on RUclips.
Lennox is amazing
I too give a fake name at coffee shops. It’s always Mary. I delight in hearing them call out the Mother of Our Lord.
St. Paul Outside the Wall is legitimately one of my favorite churches in Rome!!
Top five of my favorite PWA 👏👏👏
Thy Kingdom Come!
Incredible interview
The moral argument is the best argument for God for noble hearts.
Fr. Michael is a gifted academic! Incredible podcast and introduction to years of research and thought about this developing topic.
So much food for thought. Disembodied relationships? I have mine with the angels, saints and God, these are not virtual relationships but real..... or to be truthful unreal. Thanks Fr Michael & Matt.
This was a GREAT episode! I listen to them all, but this was one of my favorites. I loved both the discussion of science as it is, and the advice of a good priest on how to address these really troubling ideas
As a former New Materialist (trans/posthumanism on steriods) and now a full blown Catholic i am very excited about this interview.
According to Liedeke Plate, "new materialism (and new materialisms) is part of the material turn currently sweeping through the humanities and social sciences and entails a paradigm shift toward a more material(ist) understanding of social and cultural life... At its most radical, new materialism is posthumanist, part of the nonhuman turn."
Im still puzzled as to why no trans/posthumanist scholar (especially Christian scholars) outside the radical left has begun to take new materialism seriously especially given its 100% laying the foundation for phase II of wokism.
I sincerely hope this is discussed or at least acknowledged. New materialism’s underlying and explicit occultism is absolutely terrifying especially when one looks at it orgins that reside in nonother than the "Great sorceror" himself Gilles Deleuze (bff w/ Michel Foucault).
In Christ,
A rogue new materialist
I don't even know what most of this oversocialized mumbo jumbo is.
So in relation to the quote of the new materialism (never heard the term before, thanks), would you say that the current tendency for incorporating non-human or 'more than human' agents, as it's currently in social sciences for instance, might be seen as related to this 'material turn'?
incorporating was a bad word choice, I've meant including in the field of study, kind of equalizing in, a sense, with the human element.
@hansblitz7770 and hence the issue!! You probably know what transgender is correct? But if I were to approach you in 2010 with some "over socialized mumbo jumbo" called post modernism you'd dismiss it? And why?
Marxism is another great example!! In its earlier form it was masked in impenetrable concepts that folks often dismissed as "mumbo jumbo" that later sprouted into a VERY REAL worldview that killed millions!!
New Materialism is NOW... One such concept that is intentionally masked under difficult concepts so folks will dismiss it as postmodern gibberish when in fact it's home to one of the most potent and EVIL ideologies we have faced.
Just saying...
In Christ,
Eric
@@hansblitz7770 ok
Can anything technology has to offer lend to us "that peace that passes all understanding?"
2:08:36 Moratorium is Latin, but not cognate (etymologically connected) to the verb morior (to die). Rather, it comes from the verb morari, moror, moratus sum, which means "to linger, loiter; to delay, hinder". A moratorium is not the absolute prohibition, just a delay for an unforeseeable time. Great discussion!
Humans are not self creators, God creates every human being.
GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST!!!
GLORY FOREVER!!!
Awesome interview!
Great interview. Appreciate the academic vibe.
Thanks ❤ very insightful conversation. Appreciate it
Thanks but no thanks. I’m okay with living out the remaining years of my life blissfully with my “hunk of flesh” which embodies my spirit and my soul as God created me! Yes, I understand my body is slowly declining. I do all I can to physically feel great every day. I’ll walk this earthly journey to the end with peaceful bliss as I worship Jesus Christ and help my fellow man.
20:45 I’m very glad that the discussion went into some depth on the ‘gray’ zone.
Brilliantly executed-
Funny how they edited out “himself” when referring to Rothblatt, on all platforms.
couldn't risk a whole episode getting nuked
Loved this. Thank you!
GOOD SHOW. THANK YOU!
Ghost in the Shell dealt with a lot of the dystopian effects of these technologies (if anime is your thing). There's a movie from 1995 and then some series. Do be advised, it is not for children, and has lots of violence and sexually suggestive content.
I'm a bit late but going to back up to the beginning. Can't wait to listen!
It’s a crazy world we live in brothers and sisters
Transhumanism almost seems to be an inverse of the Little Way. Where we no longer are humbled by our littleness, our weakness and dependence on God, but are driven to overcome it through means other than those naturally provided for us.
Brave new world - Aldous Huxley from 1931! Read it if interested in that topic
The transhumanists would of course never describe it this way, but in some sense they are trying to turn humans into angels - and are of course completely unable to comprehend the heights of angels and evils of demons.
Very insightful
I'd be interested in hearing Fr. Baggot cover the topics of cryopreservation/cryonics, as well as the morality of human brain organoids.
@Pints With Aquinas Do you plan to keep up with your rumble channel, we have had no updates there in a month, and I would rather support them then youtube if I can.
great interview!
Why was Fr's words censored 15:18👀
My guess is that certain words and phrases on RUclips will get you flagged for banning dilution of recognition on algorithm
Transhumanism seems an attempt to ameliorate the effects of the fall, but still attempting to achieve divine status: eternality, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence…
Rothblatt and his "wife," also a biological man posing as a woman, started a transhumanist religion, "Terasem." Many members are transgender.
What are the beliefs of terasem?
Terasem comes from the Greek word for 'Earthseed' and is organized around four core tenets- "life is purposeful, death is optional, God is technological and love is essential."
Great job with the editing, Thrsdy. Love the spoiler timer.
Something that confuses me about the 'uploading yourself' concept is that even if it were possible to make a digitized copy, you still exist in your body, so you don't actually continue on, your digital copy exists separated from you, you still have to die. So even without getting into any spiritual aspects, it's still kind of stupid on the face...you don't get to experience anything, your theoretical copy does.
...to the very attenuated extent that there can be "experience" in a digital environment. Even if the entire brain could be mapped, there isn't a one-to-one relationship between the signal going through a neuron and a particular aspect of the external environment. It's great for people with I/O breakdowns that we can engineer a bridge for the input and output, but it's clearly just a tool for that one specific task, not a self-contained ecosystem.
True. Without a body, how does one experience pleasure...and if you download your memory into a computer or even your intellect, will it be capable of a new thought or is it just capable of running through the old ones?
The whole metaverse idea is so confusing and horrifying to me. I don't see the appeal unless you truly believe there is nothing beyond this life. That's why it does concern me. The atheist lie could trap people in the metaverse. Matt has said in the past about having evangelization efforts in the metaverse but I don't see how one would do that unless it is like a matrix type situation where you can plug in or out.
Bitcoin fixes this.
It is a delusional fantasy that any actual humanity is digitized. The soul and person can never be captured by the material.
Every time you go to sleep you lose consciousness (there is a phase where you are neither awake nor dreaming), so the stream of consciousness is already something discontinuous for humans (we also have black outs from drinking alcohol, fainting or getting under general anesthesia). One could make the argument that a digital copy of yourself would be similar to waking up from anesthesia. Philosophically, I can't even be sure that I really existed yesterday and that my memories haven't been implanted in me just three hours ago. Our feeling of being a unique person that persists through time is not something we can rationally prove to ourselves, which is why the question of persistence of personal identity is such a difficult metaphysical question. So one simple answer to your question might be that yes, making a digital copy of oneself does not prevent one from the experience of dying, but that this experience might be indistinguishable from what we go through when we go under general anesthesia and then wake up, or indeed when we go to sleep, lose consciousness and then wake up. It might seem far fetched but when you think about it, when you go under anesthesia you are unafraid because you are confident that a future version of yourself will continue to exist, even though your consciousness will be temporarily shut down.
God made us in his image and likeness. Why are we trying to change who we are?
“Her” was a thought-provoking and well made film, though I found the ending to be troubling and thoroughly gnostic.
Additionally, the movie “Lars and the Real Girl” (starring Ryan Gosling) addresses similar topics. And more recently, the animated TV series “Pantheon” is laser-focused on the issue of consciousness uploading.
One caveat: while entertaining, I get the distinct impression that many of these productions have been tasked with putting a “positive spin” on transhumanist and posthumanist issues. Watch with discernment.
No one seems to have qualms and fears about the denial of food and housing for others around the globe. Why are transhumanist supporters ignoring these issues we’ve had for thousands of years?
Because they're not philanthropists.
They're trying to figure out how they themselves can live forever, not how to help others live better
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal That's not true, as a matter of fact one of the core tenets of transhumanism is that we ought to abolish all forms of suffering for all sentient beings, which is something that David Pearce (co-founder of the World Transhumanist Association) has discussed abundantly in The Hedonistic Imperative.
Looking forward to Father Michael’s sci-fi novel!
This reminds me of the song "In the year 2525" by Zager and Evans, where humans are no more, but merely electronic
16:47 never thought I would see Emile Ratelband here, he calls himself a positive thinking guru and introduced NLP in the Netherlands, I grew up in the same city.
Oh man, I don't think I'd mind a decade in Italy.
Playing God is always potentially dangerous. Matt mentioned that the appendix is “useless,” but that’s based on human knowledge of decades past. We now know that the appendix is, in fact, important. And that’s why transhumanism (and transgenderism) scares the hell out of me, and seems like moving away from God.
I don't have an appendix anymore and had I kept it I would have died of peritonitis.
Enhancing people for the common good might also be detrimental to those people in lots of subtle ways. Maybe we get a better concert pianist or air traffic controller that ends up resorting to alcoholism because they are unhappy in their vocations.
Why does the ordination of Fr. Kermit Syren by St. John Paul keep pocking up as we watch your program
These transhumanists never read Frankenstein or they have and the moral of the story went completely over their heads.
Seriously!!! It's as if these people have never had a good fairy tale told to them. I know some children that could articulate why transhumanism is obviously a bad idea.
@@williammanhire4424 Maybe that's an indication that people who oppose transhumanism operate on puerile superstition rather than solid arguments.
Based on this wonderful interview, it was revealed that Father Michael definitely listens to Radiohead. 7:35
Love it
I know martine rothblatt! He lives on the same street as me in a little 2000 person town. Very interesting conversation
It will be very difficult for Catholics to object to Transhumanism without being deeply anti-modern.
Example: Neurolink is going to allow blind people to see. Will Catholics object? But it will also allow us to more easily interface with the Machine.
Neurolink will allow for quadriplegics to walk. But it will allow us to interface our minds with cyborg like mechanisms.
When your mind is integrated with the Machine to that degree where does your mind stop and the Machine start? Is Apple photos part of your memory? What about when you can access them with a thought.
I haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but if this interview doesn’t mention the Jesuit Teilhard De Chardin the it’s a miss.
@@bethmcmullan7686 He dances around them. But doesn’t give concrete doctrine about what the response should be.
I think the answer would be distasteful to most modern Catholics.
All praise the omnissiah!
Orwell got the credit, but Huxley was correct.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it correct to say transhumanism is similar to a materialist gnosticism? Existing as a disembodied human consciousness (spiritual reality) is better than human consciousness within the flesh (physical reality)?
No because transhumanism proposes no such thing as disembodied consciousness, even a digital consciousness would supervene on a physical substrate, namely a computer. What's more, a lot of transhumanists don't even believe that it's possible to upload human consciousness on a digital computer. Most transhumanists focus on more realistic technologies like genetic engineering, pharmaceuticals, protheses, brain implants, etc.
Just came here to say Alex Jones said this thinking was on its way years ago. Can’t remember if it’s his interview on Tucker or when Joe Rogan interviewed Tucker and they show Alex saying this is how the people in power think.
Big Tech Protect? 15:15 what was sensored there from this video? The Himself pronoun?
waiting!
You should check out the “transcension hypothesis” by futurist John Smart. It was published by NASA as a proposed answer to Fermi’s paradox. Basically, the theory goes that since technology is becoming increasingly compressed and efficient, all intelligent life inevitably reaches Black Hole-levels of computation.
I’ve really enjoyed this video. I find it interesting how much discussion there actually has been on this in popular culture. One thing that comes to mind is the movie starring Helen Mirren and Jeff Bridges,The Giver, which is based on a book by Lois Lowry of the same title. Have you read that book?
"...and ye shall be as gods"
What is the BigTech Protect thing at 15:18? Was that added in by the PWA peeps or RUclips?
It was added by PWA because Fr says “himself” which RUclips does not appreciate since the person Fr mentions identifies as a “woman”
11 minutes in, reminds me of the movie, "Get Out"
Not related to the episode, but does anybody remember matt singing teenage dirtbag? Not sure if i really saw it or was kind of a mandella effect
Don't remember which interview/video, but yes he did. Probably last year.
@@irishgirlintexas nice. Thank you!
It was the video the Fradds and Horns did together on Cameron's channel
Cyberpunk 2077(video game from a couple years back) there is a conversation between what seems like a Roman Catholic on a talk show talking about the state of man with all the augments. It is surreal to be see REAL people talking about this stuff now.
Alita: Battle Angel
I recommend the book, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". It's about AI
We should have him play “Deus Ex: Human Revolution”
I listed to this just before bed. It made for a disturbing dream- Lol
regarding Matt's comments on watching shows that have sexually explicit content; what about watching using a filtering app like Vidangel? We watch all shows and just turn off sexual content. It's great!
Wow... I'm hearing a lot of great things, and scary things in the ideas here. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
where's the Alhquist interview
good ol dale is getting up there in years isnt he? get the interview yesterday!
soon
I’m madly in love with Alhquist. 😊😂 Really. I love his writing. I love his lectures.
What’s a legionary? please someone share ?
The Legionaries of Christ. It's an order in the Church. (Unless I have missed something and it also means something else)
The tv show pantheon is all about this. And the end all thats left is data centres. And self deletion.
Yeah, one good thing at least is that “digisexuality” is the biggest counterexample against the whole “born this way” argument…
Transhumanism without God is meaningless. But to look at it through Christ’s transfiguration, and Paul’s teaching on transformation after death that starts even now, I find acceptable.
A fun little novella dealing with this: Forest of Memory by Mary Robinette Kowal.
Fr. Michael Baggot
Br. Michael ______
Man. This conversation actually physically hurt. You guys are lovely, but the ideas given here are so ungodly, so satanic, that even just interested listening on an informative level was painful. I never thought abortion and transgenderism could be beat in terms of pure evil…
We are off to a bad start
19:03 So far, it sounds like Gnosticism to me.
It is!!
Modern Sci-fi has been all over this since the 1970s.