Donald Kalsched: Trauma & the Informed Heart
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Dr. Donald Kalsched, Jungian analyst, teacher, and author, discusses his acclaimed work on childhood trauma; (see www.donaldkalsched.com for upcoming programs). When there is unbearable emotional pain in childhood, archetypal defenses dismember such experience and banish parts of it to the unconscious, where it remains as unconscious suffering. Such suffering is manifested as pathological symptoms, i.e., dysfunctional relationships, addictions, narcissism, and more. The defensive system that takes over--a ‘self-care system’--is both protective and persecutory of the innocence and vulnerability hiding in the inner fortress, and thus the trauma survivor leads a false, generic life instead of a true, personal one. He/she is unable to feel and be fully alive in the world-especially in intimate relationships. The potential for such aliveness lies dormant, like a seed in the prima materia of unconsciousness, waiting to be awakened and restored to the ego-but against great resistances thrown up by the defensive system. Often dreams lead the way in this process of self-recovery, reconnecting the dismembered parts so that exiled aspects of ourselves can come home and wounded hearts can heal.
Here’s the dream we analyze:
“I enter my parents’ kitchen, where a group of people are ready to cook lion meat for me to eat. I’m not sure who the cooks are. They show me the different ways they can cook the lion’s meat (minced, in a stew, steak, or raw, sashimi style). Afterward, they show me a mask made of the lion’s face, which I have to wear after I eat the lion’s meat. I never get to actually eat the meat or wear the lion’s mask in the dream.”
REFERENCES:
Donald Kalsched. The Inner World of Trauma: Archetypal Defenses of the Personal Spirit.
Donald Kalsched. Trauma and the Soul: A Psycho-Spiritual Approach to Human Development and Its Interpretation.
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Every now and again you hear a phrase that completely hits the nail on the head and articulates something you’ve tried to find words for for decades. The “they loved me but didn’t enjoy me” was one such line. Wow, thank you.
I have walked the inner path for many years and have come to realize that without a larger context that includes the systems of power that we live in and a strong spiritual development of belonging to a Greater Reality, the burden iof "indivdual" healing is just too heavy to bear. At least it is for me. The sobering reality is that even though I have healed much of my trauma, most of lthe world doesn't give a damn. Most of the worldl just doesn't have the privilege to do the work. I realize that walking my own path of healing is a great privilege, and a sacred duty to somehow contribute to the evolution of consciousness for all.
We used to live in close knit communities in which trauma was much more easily absorbed. The lack of such community is in itself highly traumatizing. Who can ever rest in the body when it's everyone for him/herself? I do my healing work, but I have to constantly remind myself that the way human beings in western culture live is disturbingly abnormal and the responsibility is not mine alone. Without an experience of the numinous belonging to a Greater Reality, I would have folded years ago.
Resonates. Thank you.
Feeling seen and understood. Thank you.
What a beautiful and eloquent speaker. I loved what he said about the Red Book. Can you do a full episode on the Red Book? And Kingsley's Catafalque?
In Donald's chapter in the book "Understanding and Healing Emotional Trauma" (by Daniela F. Sieff) he talks about how some traumatized children escape into a world of fantasy as the following quote by him, from that book indicates: "Another method commonly used by the protector/persecutor is to encapsulate us in fantasy...which can provide a vibrant private space, where the sprit can live safe from the onslaughts of reality." I think this is perhaps an area that This Jungian Life has not explored yet - especially as it relates to what psychologist Eli Somer has coined as "Maladaptive Daydreaming" - of which Somer also often points to childhood trauma as a cause. I would love to get a more in-depth Jungian perspective on this phenomenon in a future episode.
Yes agreed.
Fantasy can be said to be the first and primary addiction underlying any other addiction imho.
I'm curious to read some more about what is considered maladaptive daydreaming. Bruno Bettelheim, wrote about fairy tales in the forties or fifties I think. He wrote about the importance of fairy tales that were not cleaned up, like Disney stories, as a way for children to work through the very real, ugly, truths in their lives. My tendency is to look at daydreaming as a way of not only preserving parts of the self which are endangered during a particular time, but also a way of memory keeping, internal memory keeping(?) That is, aspects of the personality; aspects of a child's internal reality, of which even the consciousness, being awae of those parts, are dangerous to the child's survival. If the child is surrounded by adults who scrutinize the child for likes and dislikes, as a way of controlling that child, or abusing that child, then simply not knowing that one has a particular pre-election, or affinity for something, is very important. There's no chance of slipping up in an unguarded moment, or expressing Joy, or excitement about something , if one is simply unaware. Maybe it's a form of dissociation. On a, less trauma-laden end of the spectrum, an example of this would be an adult who in the midst of a crisis say in their middle age, says aloud "I forgot I used to like X or Y...", or " I used to do such and such as a kid. I haven't done that in years..."
I think that the motivation perhaps, to cheat someone who has solve a significant problem for you, it's similar to someone who would promise to child a highly desired reward for good behavior. However, once a child fulfills their end of the bargain, the adult refuses to pay, so sweet. That impulse, that motivation, might be a type of duping delight; which is present in abusers of many stripes. Maybe that's why the pie Piper's Revenge took the form of stealing their children.
Agree!
I like the discussion about politics, climate crisis, etc. from a Jungian lens. I hope you do more of this. Great interview.
🌋🌋💥=1,000🏭?
Thank you for a great episode! I'm reading Dr. Kalsched's "Trauma and the Soul" at this very moment. What an important book. What strikes me is the fact that in addition to being an accomplished clinician, he is also a great storyteller which certainly makes his seminal ideas more accessible. So thank you once again for bringing him on your podcast. With regard to this week's dream, I'd like to contribute a cross-cultural reference which goes pretty much along with your collective interpretation. There's a saying in French "manger du lion" which translates "to eat a lion" meaning "to have a lot of energy", "be aggressive", "to manifest combativity and courage". It's a characteristic of one's behavior. For example, you come to work and your manager is overly energetic, slightly aggressive and hyper excited, etc. You'd then turn to your fellow co-workers and whisper annoyingly "Did [the manager] eat a lion today?"😄
The question to me is not “did your parents’ face light up?” To me the question is to light your parents’ face up, what did you have to do and who did you have to be and what did you have to feel and what were you not allowed to feel.
10:00 trauma defensive dream example and following expansion
50:00 approx. The devil, Diss, the Nicene Creed, Jesus' 3 days in hell, meeting one's inner demons/devil, Dante's inferno, the 9 realms as a psycho-journey.
Thank you all! For my own end, this was the best of all! I can't thank you enough because this triggered so many revelations while listening to it a very early morning before I really woke up fully.
Can y’all do an episode on IFS (Internal Family Systems) Therapy and it’s correspondence with the types of alters that emerge in DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder)
Thank you for this enlightening and encouraging discussion. I listened last night and I will listen again tonight. Your podcast has been helping me to awaken to a new way of
understanding my own past.
fantastic episode.....will meditate on this, thanks!😊
This is the BEST exposure to Kalsched's work I've ever seen online. Thank you! -- for provoking such a deep conversation.
He is wonderful! ~ Joseph
Heard this episode on Spotify. So grateful for the amount of insight we gather from this special ep. Thanks for sharing!
Amazing Podcast! Thank you! What if you feel too much? You feel other peoples’s trauma sadness and happiness?
I am a severe trauma suviour and my dogs name is Hades.
Wonderful. I'm loving your channel. So helpful!
Hmmm 20:32 elapsed so far. Thank you. Lot to unpack. Perhaps via the yoga technique mentioned that Jung used post Freud rejection 🤷
I loved the analogy to the Inferno and the devil standing in front of the gate. Have you red Martha Beck's recent book "Way of Integrity"- the entire healing process she describes and talks the listener through is based on Dante's Inferno. It's brilliant, I highly recommend.
In the ninth circle of hell in Inferno there is a place for what Danté described as 'Sin against kin' - this seems to be an appropriate description for the mistreatment and abuse that causes so much attachment trauma. How is it that literature from the 14th century is such a worthy accompaniment for those who are on a psychological healing journey in the 21st century?
As Jungians, we are seeking archetypal motifs. These are identified by finding evidence across civilizations and time.
Dandy channel. You guys have got those NPR voices down pat.😏
Intelligent and loving ❤ 😌
1:14:36
Harm. Fascinating. I got triggered the other day when someone said to appreciate the wound - I do need to eat myself -