I still remember when I went from running a money collection agency to charging 50% upfront...to just taking 100% upfront. lol. Turns out that the good clients that were ready to put down 50% upfront were ok with putting down 100%. Chris is a real champion of the people. Crazy thing is, I do better work when I'm not worried about being paid.
GREAT VIDEO!!! Thanks so much! P.S. May I ask you guys to add a 80hz cut, plosives reduction vst or just stop speaking directly into the mic and stuff? I see you as professionals, but that sound is really distracting, sometimes. Please don't do that shit, man: 17:50... 11:08 :) Much love.
I went from $300-$500 gigs to $2000 gigs in my area from watching The Futur. Honestly it was from 1 episode or discussion he had. I cant recommend his channel enough
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing, 3 revisions. Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
It's easy to confidently set your price when your rent being paid doesn't depend on whether or not you get the job. BUT, knowing your worth confuses people and makes them respect you and your work a lot more. I've had clients leave me on read, then come back in two weeks to confirm the job.
Thanks for this! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
I've been in the biz for 20+ years and I have to say your "Slimy Producer" is so spot on for 95% of the people who have contacted me out of the blue looking for a deal. Pro tip for newbies: Whenever anyone says "there'll be a lot more work coming down the road if things work out well..." RUN! Great negotiating tips from you guys. Early on in my career, I worked with a great audio guy. When producers would ask him what his day rate was and he'd tell them, they'd invariably say "Oh...That's a little more than we had budgeted... What's your half-day rate?" And he'd give them the exact same rate. He may have lost some biz sticking to his guns, but in the end, he ALWAYS got his day rate and never wavered. I learned a lot from him. (You guys too... Keep up the great work!)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Do you have tips for newbies who don't have a strong enough portfolio? I did mostly travel promotion videos, but due to the pandemic, I've lost my job. I've been trying to get jobs in product shoots, real estate shoots etc, but they all say I'm lacking in experience. I've only been in this for 8 months before the pandemic. And half the work I've done can't be released as my clients are taking forever to launch it and I can't show full proof apart from snippets in my reel. One client even refused to pay me and ran away with the 720p 10Mbps cheap sample I gave. Just lost another job quoting $180 per 30s of completed video, not inclusive of equipment/music. Am I being too overboard? Even students charge $50-100 per hour... It's getting frustrating. I'm turning to odd jobs to support myself now. Even full time offers are just pure bullying. They want me to take photos, videos, edit, manage social media, have 3 years experience in Illustrator/PS, all for $1800/month. I'm trying to build/diversify my portfolio so I can apply for a wider range of jobs, but some people tell me I shouldn't diversify and just stay focused on one thing or my portfolio will be garbage. I'm so lost...
@@professionalpotato4764 A lot of people have to break themselves at some lower end job while doing their passion as a side hustle, definitely keep up with your portfolio but obviously you've still gotta eat. Negotiation isn't always purely dollars, even with regular jobs but you do have to consider the position and the possible number of applicants. As Chris said, reward your loyal customers/clients and be creative with negotiating. If you've reached their budget max, see if they'll throw in an extra week or two of vacation time or letting you work from home one a week or biweekly. Or give a deadline, "Alright, I see this is the max of your hiring budget. As an solution that could be mutually beneficial to both of us; if I grow the department by 25% in the next six months, we can revisit the table for compensation? (AND always get it in writing!!)
Thank you, gentlemen, for this! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is soooooo scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects. So scary to ask for the money you want and deserve. People don't know what this video editing is worth. Add audio-editing on top, also some images (cause you had the camera with you and said "Let me take some photos too, while I am here...") and they still treat you like shit. That can be so discouraging, at times. Only thing that keeps me here is the passion for video and film. Otherwise, hasta la vista!
@@professionalpotato4764 Hi I know how you feel about being ripped off and this is why a contract is important so that both parties agree the deliverable against expectations. When they sign agreement (no matter how small the job is) they are agreeing to your terms and you have recourse...without this you have nothing and it gives the opportunity for people to take advantage. People are not what they always seem in business. You are in business and building a business and clientele is hard work. You need to build your portfolio but I believe diversifying may mean you become okay at many things but a master of none. If real estate is your goal then stick to this. Go out and film family and friends homes (the richer the better) and if not find a prospect who will let you film for free providing you can use your own work in your portfolio. If you look at this as doing something for nothing then you are not looking at it as your investment in you and your skills. I would strongly suggest building your reputation around what you are best at and love filming most. Good luck...
whenever a client tells me the bs of ''oh we will have many many more projects ;like this ''... i always reply by saying.. let's put that in the contract with a deadline.. and if those project won't materialise you will have to pay me the extra on my fee... if they say no (which all of them do...).. that means there isnt any future project because they are just winging it with no clear future plan. always have a fixed fee (that is realistic for your work). always over deliver and be nice to work with. the best clients i have are the ones who actually offered me more money because of the experience of work was so smooth they enjoyed it and had a product that superseeded their expectations! finally , half-day fee is full day fee. because once a day is booked you cannot double booke it for something else... the bs of '' it will just take a couple of hours...'' '' just a quick edit...'' 99% of the time that's BS... best of luck to us all in this crazy jungle ...
When I heard that, I interpreted it as "we just won't use him again after we underpay him the first time" and that it could be a frequent strategy. Like Uber/Lyft having "independent contractors" because the company avoids the liability/compensation from hiring a full time employee.
Thanks so much for this comment, Nabda Art! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning. I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth. How do you do that?
I've learned so much from Chris - from simply saying no & not working with bad clients, charging MUCH more, holdng very high standards in pre-production & making contracts. I am working less while earning more, and life gets a lot nicer for everyone :) P.S. I was also able to convince clients to spend extra on renting ARRI Alex Mini cameras on shoots. It's a business, they have money, just keep that in mind!
Yeah I've had people walk away but often they walked away like "This isn't an investment I can make but when I've got the money I'm coming back." And I really do believe them.
@Henry Hodge: Thanks for this! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing. Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
the people who disliked this are the people for whom these rates are impossible because they don't live in cities with population bigger than some countries :/
@@bqgin The people living in these cities with populations larger than your whole country probably have to pay multiple times as much in cost of living as well. If you don't live in these cities and you believe your work deserves this "impossible rate", move to one of those cities so you can charge that rate.
@@johnc417 "move to those cities" oh yes, why didn't I think of that? It's so easy! I mean the plane ticket to LA or NY is only worth 15 of my whole monthly salaries! And it's not like due to currency exchange and taxes in my country everything is 5 times more expensive than in california, and it's not like there are any immigration regulations, I can just leave whenever I want! Thank you for opening my mind, you really changed my life.
@@stefanomaggio5109 no it's not. For minimum wage in Poland you can buy 2-3 times less food, 3-4 times less square meter of a flat, and 15 times less gasoline than for minimum wage in LA. Not to mention 7 times less filming equipment.
I often start with a 10-20% margin added on so I can lower down to my normal rate to be flexible. most of my repeats get discounted rates but the few pains don't.
The crossover ive been waiting for. Even though most of The Futur focuses mostly on design, so much of the concepts translate to videography seamlessly
Chris is.....smooth, very professional, respectful when turning down or establishing his boundaries. Thanks for the wisdom, Master Yoda. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks -- this is very useful as it's way more concrete than a lot of other suggestions I've seen. Before I knew about "anchor bias" I remember being amazed at auctioneers who'd throw out a number to start bidding, then work their way down, and lo and behold, the price would come back to that starting mark ever single time. The "we have more work" -> "buy in bulk" analogy was spot on: "great, we'll set up a contract for 5 shoots and you'll get a better price."
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Love it! I actually got flashbacks to a conference I shot all about negotiations. It was funny to see this being played out in the filmmaking scenario. My favorite bit from the conference was when two people were brought up to negotiate over 10 dollars. The presenter was going to give the two people 10 bucks, but they had to negotiate how they’d split it. Conditions were they couldn’t split it 50/50 and they couldn’t negotiate to continue to exchange later. They had 1-minute to negotiate. It’s amazing how quickly they each tried for the full 10 dollars. The presenter said the best example was of someone who took out a dollar from his/her own wallet and said I’ll give you 4 of these dollars plus my dollar, and I take 6. We both walk away with 5 more dollars than we had before. And, that wasn’t against the rules. Negotiate is a fun game that takes practice. I really loved this example. Great episode guys!
This is great. I love watching both of these channels! Here is some interesting information I got from this as a producer: the rate ($900/8) would actually cost more than $1500 if they want for a full 12 hour day. Here is the breakdown: $900 / 8 = $112.50 per hour (Straight time). For time and a half, you would multiple the straight time rate by 1.5 to get his overtime rate of $168.75 per hour. So an 8 hour day would be $900 and if they went to 12 hours you would multiple the time and half rate by 4 (hours) to get a total of $675 for the 4 hours of time and a half and then add that with the $900 to get a grand total of $1,575 for a 12 hour day. Extra fun note: I believe in California (I'm in Texas) the hourly rate over 12 hours is double time after 12 hours. So if they went over 12 hours the hourly rate would jump to $225 per hour for Chris. This was a very realistic exchange and I appreciate the negotiations by Chris and Moses along with the entire video. Due to scenarios like this, I prefer to work with hourly rates more than "day" rates. I find more people appreciate that than just saying "the day rate is $500." Most seasoned DPs or crew members will usually ask, "how long is the day?" when you mention a day rate. That pretty much happened near the end of the discussion which was great. It allowed the negotiations to get into the hourly rate versus the day rate. Since Moses knew information about the shots, director, etc that he brought up, this allowed him to bring up the idea that maybe they could hire Chris for $900/8. I love working with producers like that, they know the ins and outs of the overall creative and production which can give them leverage in negations. Once again, great video. Hopefully, they kept it an 8 hour day ;)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
@@michaelthomas3532 Very cool! I have worked with a couple of post facilities that charge close to the $600 per hour edit. Very nice facilities and edit bays too!
glad to see the breakdown. I think when mosses agree to overtime, I felt pretty safe moving forward. everything takes longer than you think. so it was going to work on in my favor.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Really handy to see actually how a negotiation would happen. As many books as you can read - I think case studies like this go a long way. Thank you Chris for coming on and Ted for hosting! 👏🤗🙏
I just scored my first $1000 gig to make a 60 second promo video containing just royalty free stock footage, a fiverr voice-over, and a few motion graphics. I would've charged like $300 for that in the past, but I told myself I wouldn't sell myself short anymore on what I believe I'm worth. Mind you, in the past I filmed a wedding that took 3 days of filming, 17 to 20hrs of editing for a 5minute long wedding video for only $800. I made more money on 20x less of a workload just bc I held my ground strategically on what I believe I'm worth. If you're capable of exceeding expectations in work quality, never sell yourself short.
I was approached by a major record label (one of the big 4's) to work on a music video. Budget was around £5,000, I got paid £500 to Direct, DP and Edit once costs and crew fees were paid. I was also promised that they'd be working with me on 8 music videos in total which would increase in budget for every music video. So of course, I jumped at the chance to do it to build a nice relationship with this record label. They went to LA to do the third video. Funnily enough, that 3rd video which they told me would have a budget of £2,000 had around 30 people as a crew. Long story short, a major label will fork out money if they have to. Knowing me, I'll prob be an idiot and still accept being lowballed because it's work. Interested to see if they come back to me for the fourth video once covid is over.
Music videos are tough and to be honest many of the best DP’s I know aren’t making close to $1500 a day on these kinds of jobs. No need to beat yourself up. Your work will dictate your price, but don’t be afraid to say no. If they’re decent people, they should never be offended when you pass on a project.
@@thefutur So true unfortunately, when I started doing higher-end editorial I started saying "no" to anything corporate, then they doubled my rate and I still said no... then they nearly tripled it lol. Gotta know your worth! 👍
2000 pounds for 30 people?????????????????? WTF???? Man! I would just go on the set, with some popcorn in my hand and tell them I have off today and just came for a walk...
Love both these guys. Chris and his team have indisputably gained my agency bigger work and clients so thanks to him. Ted has definitely helped us with info for productions as well.
This video is perfect! I wish I knew this a month ago when I tried to negotiate with a potential client and it fell through. Thanks for this for the next interactions
Thanks, Ted for introducing us to Chris. You have been already helping us with the art side now we can also get help for the business side from Chris and whole The Futur team ❤❤❤❤
Thanks a lot for this one. Been doing this for 11 years and bring a lot to the table but companies here in Qatar tend to undervalue my work. This gives me more confidence to be firm.
This is amazing.... I would like to know: When you are speaking of an 8-hour day e.g. when does it start? Just so you can make clear when overtime begins. I would say, the minute you leave the house, your working day starts, but it can also start when you arrive on set. What are your thoughts on that?
If you are advising you will be working an 8 hour day for $900 + Overtime at $100 an hour then this would be actual work on set. Your contract should advise clarity on any other inclusions such as travel costs and time taken to get to and from location and whether this is included. Chris Do advises an 8 hour day and that his usual 12 hour day rate (for shooting with 2 assistants) is $1500 and both parties should have made clear any other additions that made up this time. But as this was a straight negotiation for price I believe that as he advised in summing up he wouldn't want to have a bad taste left in his mouth about retrospectively asking for overtime unless this was agreed and written into the contract. One of the important things Chris did not include was 'make sure you write the contract' or at least make sure they agree to your full offer in writing and signed before proceeding...hope this helps.
You are not alone. creative minds tends to attach a lot of emotion to numbers. Our team found it really useful to create a pricing sheet based off past projects that we simply punch in numbers (preparation time, shoot length, finished video length) and it spits out the cost. This allowed us to remove the emotion from pricing as we were not giving the price, the pricing sheet was.
This video actually solved my problem when it comes to negotiating with clients and how should I charge. Its always been my weakness. Hopefully, I can deal with customers better soon.
Thanks so much for this comment, Δπαδυφξι Λιβυχ! It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth. It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning. I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth. How did you do that? I watched the video with Chris but am still confused on what to ask for my services. Hourly, per project, editing, no editing included... Pffff.................................................
Chris I think I may have harangued you on something on your channel but I wanted to reflect that I _do_ really respect what you're doing because ultimately you're helping us sometimes insecure creators get what we're worth and that is THE GOOD WORK.
0:15 That is unless you're college students and they were expecting you to do it for little to nothing. And then they hire someone local that does such a horrible job you'd think it was shot by elementary school kids.
Wanna learn how to negotiate? You can't go wrong with Chris Do....this guy right here changed people's lives with his mentorship!! Thank you Chris🙏...I can't recommend the future enough...it's a Gold mine on RUclips for creatives worldwide..!!
Wow, this is brilliant. I've had so many conversations like this as a photographer. Thank you for this super helpful video and for starting this conversation to educate more people about better negotiating practices as an artist. Thanks, Chris and Ted.
I loved this! Question/request - I’m in the development stages of a project. I’d love to know rates and negotiation for the other filmmaking jobs like creative development, script writing, etc. Thank you for sharing all of this valuable info, Indy Mogul!
Never been into business myself, but a couple times people have asked me for advice on pricing their own work and I'm ALWAYS kinda baffled by how low people set themselves, from digital design to drawings to hand-knitted stuff, they ALL set some price that barely covered initial costs for no real reason.
Amazing insight really ... had the same issue recently with the “exposure and future gigs” line... wish I had this info prior.... but never the less moving foward I will keep this amazing lecture in mind.... thanks guys u really helped me today.
Oh man the irony here is that I'm more used to "our budget is £100 per day", where my actual rate is £500 per day. (£500 is about $625 USD) and working my way up to there, but this is all really great stuff.
YEEESSSSSSSSS I LOVE IT.. 👏🏾 Well done Ted and team, and amazing from Chris as always. Chris always teaches for all creatives but it is focused from the point of logo making, and sometimes gives videography examples... But I love this was videography focused and specific, especially with all the questions 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
What are exact things I should clarify with my client. For example: how long the shoot, overtime, and how many revisions. What is that entire list of things we need to set in stone in the beginning?
first, know what your costs are. if you do it for less than X you will lose money. Make sure you take into consideration all the non-billable time as well such as, meetings, coordination, prep, etc… Try to find out the value to the client. Why does this matter to them? the difference between the cost to make and value to the client is part of the art & science of pricing.
I cannot thank you enough for this video! Lately, I've been stressing over how to set my rates to the point of sleepless nights. This has been incredibly helpful, thank you!
This is a simulated scenario. If you’re dealing with a real business person, they won’t results. They pay if they will get results They want. Also, if somebody is trying to lowball you every step of the way, when it comes to creative work, what do you think the delivery and the clients feedback will be like? The real world is totally different. I do appreciate this video, it’s entertaining.
This was so helpful! I always feel a bit cheeky asking for more money that they're offering but this has definitely given me an idea on how to handle the situation. Thanks! :D
It's a business deal, you have your bills to pay and should know the worth of your quality of work. Notice how the original "anchor" was $500 despite the budget max being $1,000? If they are able to save on their budget, they are going to take the opportunity.
@@johnc417 Company reps are so bully, when it comes to taking every dollar out of you. So, that is why we should stick it together and bully them back: this is the line and I will not let you cross it, if you want me on this project. It is so hard and scary to say this to someone (in other words, of course), but to actually STATY COMITTED TO YOURSELF, in the end. Otherwise, you'll feel shitty, at the end of the day, after shooting and editing like a horse and got underpaid as hell, while that company rep sits and laughs, for hiring someone for so low and getting the project done for so less more money.
Head of a Studio. Master Negotiator. AND he’s got an Emmy. What on earth is Chris eating for breakfast and where do we get it?
I had an emmy, but I went to the clinic and they cleared that up for me
The Design Monk
I still remember when I went from running a money collection agency to charging 50% upfront...to just taking 100% upfront. lol. Turns out that the good clients that were ready to put down 50% upfront were ok with putting down 100%. Chris is a real champion of the people.
Crazy thing is, I do better work when I'm not worried about being paid.
GREAT VIDEO!!!
Thanks so much!
P.S. May I ask you guys to add a 80hz cut, plosives reduction vst or just stop speaking directly into the mic and stuff?
I see you as professionals, but that sound is really distracting, sometimes.
Please don't do that shit, man: 17:50...
11:08 :)
Much love.
@@ralphwarom2514 Yeah, me too. Things would be so easier, if money would not come in discussion,
but... then again, that is a JOB.
I went from $300-$500 gigs to $2000 gigs in my area from watching The Futur. Honestly it was from 1 episode or discussion he had. I cant recommend his channel enough
Awesome!! congrats.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
which ones in particular are you talking about?
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing, 3 revisions.
Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
Wow thank you for sharing. This too has opened my eyes. Peace and love
It's easy to confidently set your price when your rent being paid doesn't depend on whether or not you get the job.
BUT, knowing your worth confuses people and makes them respect you and your work a lot more.
I've had clients leave me on read, then come back in two weeks to confirm the job.
Thanks for this!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
I've been in the biz for 20+ years and I have to say your "Slimy Producer" is so spot on for 95% of the people who have contacted me out of the blue looking for a deal. Pro tip for newbies: Whenever anyone says "there'll be a lot more work coming down the road if things work out well..." RUN! Great negotiating tips from you guys. Early on in my career, I worked with a great audio guy. When producers would ask him what his day rate was and he'd tell them, they'd invariably say "Oh...That's a little more than we had budgeted... What's your half-day rate?" And he'd give them the exact same rate. He may have lost some biz sticking to his guns, but in the end, he ALWAYS got his day rate and never wavered. I learned a lot from him. (You guys too... Keep up the great work!)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Do you have tips for newbies who don't have a strong enough portfolio? I did mostly travel promotion videos, but due to the pandemic, I've lost my job.
I've been trying to get jobs in product shoots, real estate shoots etc, but they all say I'm lacking in experience. I've only been in this for 8 months before the pandemic.
And half the work I've done can't be released as my clients are taking forever to launch it and I can't show full proof apart from snippets in my reel.
One client even refused to pay me and ran away with the 720p 10Mbps cheap sample I gave. Just lost another job quoting $180 per 30s of completed video, not inclusive of equipment/music. Am I being too overboard? Even students charge $50-100 per hour...
It's getting frustrating. I'm turning to odd jobs to support myself now. Even full time offers are just pure bullying. They want me to take photos, videos, edit, manage social media, have 3 years experience in Illustrator/PS, all for $1800/month. I'm trying to build/diversify my portfolio so I can apply for a wider range of jobs, but some people tell me I shouldn't diversify and just stay focused on one thing or my portfolio will be garbage. I'm so lost...
@@professionalpotato4764 A lot of people have to break themselves at some lower end job while doing their passion as a side hustle, definitely keep up with your portfolio but obviously you've still gotta eat. Negotiation isn't always purely dollars, even with regular jobs but you do have to consider the position and the possible number of applicants.
As Chris said, reward your loyal customers/clients and be creative with negotiating. If you've reached their budget max, see if they'll throw in an extra week or two of vacation time or letting you work from home one a week or biweekly. Or give a deadline, "Alright, I see this is the max of your hiring budget. As an solution that could be mutually beneficial to both of us; if I grow the department by 25% in the next six months, we can revisit the table for compensation? (AND always get it in writing!!)
Thank you, gentlemen, for this!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is soooooo scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
So scary to ask for the money you want and deserve.
People don't know what this video editing is worth.
Add audio-editing on top, also some images (cause you had the camera with you and said "Let me take some photos too,
while I am here...") and they still treat you like shit. That can be so discouraging, at times.
Only thing that keeps me here is the passion for video and film.
Otherwise, hasta la vista!
@@professionalpotato4764 Hi I know how you feel about being ripped off and this is why a contract is important so that both parties agree the deliverable against expectations. When they sign agreement (no matter how small the job is) they are agreeing to your terms and you have recourse...without this you have nothing and it gives the opportunity for people to take advantage. People are not what they always seem in business. You are in business and building a business and clientele is hard work. You need to build your portfolio but I believe diversifying may mean you become okay at many things but a master of none. If real estate is your goal then stick to this. Go out and film family and friends homes (the richer the better) and if not find a prospect who will let you film for free providing you can use your own work in your portfolio. If you look at this as doing something for nothing then you are not looking at it as your investment in you and your skills. I would strongly suggest building your reputation around what you are best at and love filming most. Good luck...
“Hold your price for as long as you can.” - invaluable advice from Chris.
whenever a client tells me the bs of ''oh we will have many many more projects ;like this ''... i always reply by saying.. let's put that in the contract with a deadline.. and if those project won't materialise you will have to pay me the extra on my fee... if they say no (which all of them do...).. that means there isnt any future project because they are just winging it with no clear future plan.
always have a fixed fee (that is realistic for your work). always over deliver and be nice to work with. the best clients i have are the ones who actually offered me more money because of the experience of work was so smooth they enjoyed it and had a product that superseeded their expectations!
finally , half-day fee is full day fee. because once a day is booked you cannot double booke it for something else... the bs of '' it will just take a couple of hours...'' '' just a quick edit...'' 99% of the time that's BS...
best of luck to us all in this crazy jungle ...
When I heard that, I interpreted it as "we just won't use him again after we underpay him the first time" and that it could be a frequent strategy. Like Uber/Lyft having "independent contractors" because the company avoids the liability/compensation from hiring a full time employee.
Thanks so much for this comment, Nabda Art!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning.
I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth.
How do you do that?
I love watching Chris's brain work in action. Truly a genius.
I've learned so much from Chris - from simply saying no & not working with bad clients, charging MUCH more, holdng very high standards in pre-production & making contracts. I am working less while earning more, and life gets a lot nicer for everyone :) P.S. I was also able to convince clients to spend extra on renting ARRI Alex Mini cameras on shoots. It's a business, they have money, just keep that in mind!
Yeah I've had people walk away but often they walked away like "This isn't an investment I can make but when I've got the money I'm coming back." And I really do believe them.
@Henry Hodge: Thanks for this!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is scary, cause I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects.
"protect your enthusiasm" this. Such a career altering video, thanks guys!
Ted and Chris… Legendary combo
Heat from the east
@@eliasrayz1412 haha
The second I start to do this, It scares the "client" away.
Check the value and quality ur giving with u services, if its solid and good, then dont worry about the client going away they are not good enough
Then you haven't found an actual "client" yet. Learn to separate the prospects from suspects. Just keep swinging at the plate! It will happen for you!
I'm on the same boat as you but we have to learn to accept the NO and maintain our sanity.
Same here , I just lost 2 gigs
I just lost a job quoting $180 per 30s for an intro video, not inclusive of equipment and music licensing.
Why do people always try to squeeze newcomers... If I did it for any lower, I'd get paid more working in a restaurant.
The 15 people who disliked this were producers who pay in exposure dollars.
the people who disliked this are the people for whom these rates are impossible because they don't live in cities with population bigger than some countries :/
@@bqgin The people living in these cities with populations larger than your whole country probably have to pay multiple times as much in cost of living as well. If you don't live in these cities and you believe your work deserves this "impossible rate", move to one of those cities so you can charge that rate.
@@johnc417 "move to those cities" oh yes, why didn't I think of that? It's so easy! I mean the plane ticket to LA or NY is only worth 15 of my whole monthly salaries! And it's not like due to currency exchange and taxes in my country everything is 5 times more expensive than in california, and it's not like there are any immigration regulations, I can just leave whenever I want! Thank you for opening my mind, you really changed my life.
@@bqgin but probably the cost of life in their countries is way less then LA, so they just need to adjust the price from that.
@@stefanomaggio5109 no it's not. For minimum wage in Poland you can buy 2-3 times less food, 3-4 times less square meter of a flat, and 15 times less gasoline than for minimum wage in LA. Not to mention 7 times less filming equipment.
Can we get a shirt with "Protect Your Enthusiasm" on it? I definitely needed to hear that.
Sounds like we need a designer :)
Oh yeah.
LOL!! This was great. I would’ve walked in first two minutes. Great skills and nice hang time Chris.
it wasn't easy to stay in this one. Moses was not someone I would've wanted to work with.
I often start with a 10-20% margin added on so I can lower down to my normal rate to be flexible. most of my repeats get discounted rates but the few pains don't.
As a Freelance Filmmaker who studies under Chris, this was fantastic! Freaking LEGENDS!
Appreciate it
Dude, Chris is such a phenomenal salesman and negotiator! Hits all the pain points and knows how to cut through all the bs
The crossover ive been waiting for. Even though most of The Futur focuses mostly on design, so much of the concepts translate to videography seamlessly
Those poor producers won't know what is coming for them.
Chris is.....smooth, very professional, respectful when turning down or establishing his boundaries. Thanks for the wisdom, Master Yoda. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks -- this is very useful as it's way more concrete than a lot of other suggestions I've seen. Before I knew about "anchor bias" I remember being amazed at auctioneers who'd throw out a number to start bidding, then work their way down, and lo and behold, the price would come back to that starting mark ever single time. The "we have more work" -> "buy in bulk" analogy was spot on: "great, we'll set up a contract for 5 shoots and you'll get a better price."
As a photographer just getting into video, this is the best Chris Do video i've ever seen. THANK YOU.
thanks Mark.
Client: “what do you charge?”
Me: “$750 a day”
Client: “my budget is $50.”
*left on read*
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Love to help you but I'm already booked.
Client: “my budget is 50$”
Me: “cool, you still have to find 700$ more
LMFAOO!!!!!!!!!!
@@jaynazario88 Best one xd
Love it! I actually got flashbacks to a conference I shot all about negotiations. It was funny to see this being played out in the filmmaking scenario. My favorite bit from the conference was when two people were brought up to negotiate over 10 dollars. The presenter was going to give the two people 10 bucks, but they had to negotiate how they’d split it. Conditions were they couldn’t split it 50/50 and they couldn’t negotiate to continue to exchange later. They had 1-minute to negotiate. It’s amazing how quickly they each tried for the full 10 dollars. The presenter said the best example was of someone who took out a dollar from his/her own wallet and said I’ll give you 4 of these dollars plus my dollar, and I take 6. We both walk away with 5 more dollars than we had before. And, that wasn’t against the rules.
Negotiate is a fun game that takes practice. I really loved this example. Great episode guys!
This is great. I love watching both of these channels! Here is some interesting information I got from this as a producer: the rate ($900/8) would actually cost more than $1500 if they want for a full 12 hour day. Here is the breakdown: $900 / 8 = $112.50 per hour (Straight time). For time and a half, you would multiple the straight time rate by 1.5 to get his overtime rate of $168.75 per hour. So an 8 hour day would be $900 and if they went to 12 hours you would multiple the time and half rate by 4 (hours) to get a total of $675 for the 4 hours of time and a half and then add that with the $900 to get a grand total of $1,575 for a 12 hour day. Extra fun note: I believe in California (I'm in Texas) the hourly rate over 12 hours is double time after 12 hours. So if they went over 12 hours the hourly rate would jump to $225 per hour for Chris. This was a very realistic exchange and I appreciate the negotiations by Chris and Moses along with the entire video. Due to scenarios like this, I prefer to work with hourly rates more than "day" rates. I find more people appreciate that than just saying "the day rate is $500." Most seasoned DPs or crew members will usually ask, "how long is the day?" when you mention a day rate. That pretty much happened near the end of the discussion which was great. It allowed the negotiations to get into the hourly rate versus the day rate. Since Moses knew information about the shots, director, etc that he brought up, this allowed him to bring up the idea that maybe they could hire Chris for $900/8. I love working with producers like that, they know the ins and outs of the overall creative and production which can give them leverage in negations. Once again, great video. Hopefully, they kept it an 8 hour day ;)
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
@@michaelthomas3532 Very cool! I have worked with a couple of post facilities that charge close to the $600 per hour edit. Very nice facilities and edit bays too!
glad to see the breakdown. I think when mosses agree to overtime, I felt pretty safe moving forward. everything takes longer than you think. so it was going to work on in my favor.
This is the most beautiful budgeting, pricing, negotiating video I've ever seen.
wow. Thank you Tommie.
oh hey it’s chris
this guy is a legend over here at art center
hi chris
hello Geoffrey.
I've been a video editor for 25 years. $50-$75 pr hour is my usual freelance rate. 20 years ago I work at a facilty that charged $600 per Hour for video edit.
Really handy to see actually how a negotiation would happen. As many books as you can read - I think case studies like this go a long way. Thank you Chris for coming on and Ted for hosting! 👏🤗🙏
You're very welcome Kyle.
$900 is my day rate for me and camera here in Cincinnati, OH.
I just scored my first $1000 gig to make a 60 second promo video containing just royalty free stock footage, a fiverr voice-over, and a few motion graphics. I would've charged like $300 for that in the past, but I told myself I wouldn't sell myself short anymore on what I believe I'm worth. Mind you, in the past I filmed a wedding that took 3 days of filming, 17 to 20hrs of editing for a 5minute long wedding video for only $800. I made more money on 20x less of a workload just bc I held my ground strategically on what I believe I'm worth. If you're capable of exceeding expectations in work quality, never sell yourself short.
I was approached by a major record label (one of the big 4's) to work on a music video. Budget was around £5,000, I got paid £500 to Direct, DP and Edit once costs and crew fees were paid. I was also promised that they'd be working with me on 8 music videos in total which would increase in budget for every music video. So of course, I jumped at the chance to do it to build a nice relationship with this record label. They went to LA to do the third video. Funnily enough, that 3rd video which they told me would have a budget of £2,000 had around 30 people as a crew. Long story short, a major label will fork out money if they have to. Knowing me, I'll prob be an idiot and still accept being lowballed because it's work. Interested to see if they come back to me for the fourth video once covid is over.
Music videos are tough and to be honest many of the best DP’s I know aren’t making close to $1500 a day on these kinds of jobs. No need to beat yourself up. Your work will dictate your price, but don’t be afraid to say no. If they’re decent people, they should never be offended when you pass on a project.
check out the WDMV, many of us have been pushing for industry guidelines to protect you against that stuff. site is wedirectmusicvideos.com
when you stop saying yes, they'll take you more seriously
@@thefutur So true unfortunately, when I started doing higher-end editorial I started saying "no" to anything corporate, then they doubled my rate and I still said no... then they nearly tripled it lol. Gotta know your worth! 👍
2000 pounds for 30 people??????????????????
WTF???? Man!
I would just go on the set, with some popcorn in my hand and tell them I have off today and just came for a walk...
Oh Sh*t, I saw Chris and thought this was a Futur video when I clicked. Awesome colab!
this was nerve racking to do.
Such a money statement: "We want to reward our most loyal customers. We don't discount up front." 6:22
Love both these guys. Chris and his team have indisputably gained my agency bigger work and clients so thanks to him. Ted has definitely helped us with info for productions as well.
Thank you
This video is perfect! I wish I knew this a month ago when I tried to negotiate with a potential client and it fell through. Thanks for this for the next interactions
happy to see you here, Chris!
Appreciate it
Thanks, Ted for introducing us to Chris. You have been already helping us with the art side now we can also get help for the business side from Chris and whole The Futur team ❤❤❤❤
You are the best cinematography channel on RUclips. Thank you.
Thanks a lot for this one. Been doing this for 11 years and bring a lot to the table but companies here in Qatar tend to undervalue my work. This gives me more confidence to be firm.
The first one, imagine if Chris Do just hits them with the "So why are we talking?", haha.
haha
This dude is a real negotiator. He's super creative in negotiation. Thanks for this video.
thanks Ali. creativity isn't just limited to what you frame in the shot.
This is amazing....
I would like to know: When you are speaking of an 8-hour day e.g. when does it start? Just so you can make clear when overtime begins.
I would say, the minute you leave the house, your working day starts, but it can also start when you arrive on set.
What are your thoughts on that?
If you are advising you will be working an 8 hour day for $900 + Overtime at $100 an hour then this would be actual work on set. Your contract should advise clarity on any other inclusions such as travel costs and time taken to get to and from location and whether this is included. Chris Do advises an 8 hour day and that his usual 12 hour day rate (for shooting with 2 assistants) is $1500 and both parties should have made clear any other additions that made up this time. But as this was a straight negotiation for price I believe that as he advised in summing up he wouldn't want to have a bad taste left in his mouth about retrospectively asking for overtime unless this was agreed and written into the contract. One of the important things Chris did not include was 'make sure you write the contract' or at least make sure they agree to your full offer in writing and signed before proceeding...hope this helps.
This is one of those videos that I feel will stick with me and actually make an impact in what I do.
good luck!
I love this episode! As a fan of both Chris and Indy Mogul, this is such a monster crossover.
Thank you Logan.
“Protect your enthusiasm.” Well said
I really have issues when budgeting. I definitely need to work on detaching my feelings and price my skills correctly. Great video. Thanks!
You are not alone. creative minds tends to attach a lot of emotion to numbers. Our team found it really useful to create a pricing sheet based off past projects that we simply punch in numbers (preparation time, shoot length, finished video length) and it spits out the cost. This allowed us to remove the emotion from pricing as we were not giving the price, the pricing sheet was.
This video actually solved my problem when it comes to negotiating with clients and how should I charge. Its always been my weakness. Hopefully, I can deal with customers better soon.
good luck
Thanks so much for this comment, Δπαδυφξι Λιβυχ!
It encourages me to go out there and just "hold" my worth.
It is so scary to put out your "fee", cause you don't know that, in the beginning.
I am just starting out and only done some unpaid aka "passion" projects and really have to figure out what I am worth.
How did you do that?
I watched the video with Chris but am still confused on what to ask for my services.
Hourly, per project, editing, no editing included... Pffff.................................................
Chris I think I may have harangued you on something on your channel but I wanted to reflect that I _do_ really respect what you're doing because ultimately you're helping us sometimes insecure creators get what we're worth and that is THE GOOD WORK.
Hey Kit. I try not to take anything too personal. glad I was providing some help here.
I love this channel - I am learning SO much, and as an "Old Dog" trying new tricks, I can't afford to waste time. Thanks!
Freelancer from Colorado. This knowledge was honestly game changing and put me at peace with justifying my rates. Thank you!
Glad to hear
Awesome! The hardest part is negotiating prices. Thanks for sharing.
0:15
That is unless you're college students and they were expecting you to do it for little to nothing. And then they hire someone local that does such a horrible job you'd think it was shot by elementary school kids.
Wanna learn how to negotiate? You can't go wrong with Chris Do....this guy right here changed people's lives with his mentorship!! Thank you Chris🙏...I can't recommend the future enough...it's a Gold mine on RUclips for creatives worldwide..!!
Chris’s attitude seems so offensive but never ever hurts anybody, wooo business runs in this mans blood
Wow, this is brilliant. I've had so many conversations like this as a photographer. Thank you for this super helpful video and for starting this conversation to educate more people about better negotiating practices as an artist. Thanks, Chris and Ted.
Chris and Ted, you are the most awesome guys on youtube.
so grateful this video exists. it’s genuinely my career as a director summed up in one phone call. thank you so much for the tips and tricks.
Chris - you are number one in this field! I’m just so glad that you obviously is a dedicated and sharing teacher by choice. 👊🏼
Thank you
Man, this is gold. Thanks. Really.
I loved this! Question/request - I’m in the development stages of a project. I’d love to know rates and negotiation for the other filmmaking jobs like creative development, script writing, etc. Thank you for sharing all of this valuable info, Indy Mogul!
Never been into business myself, but a couple times people have asked me for advice on pricing their own work and I'm ALWAYS kinda baffled by how low people set themselves, from digital design to drawings to hand-knitted stuff, they ALL set some price that barely covered initial costs for no real reason.
Amazing insight really ... had the same issue recently with the “exposure and future gigs” line... wish I had this info prior.... but never the less moving foward I will keep this amazing lecture in mind.... thanks guys u really helped me today.
The negotiations felt so real at times! Fantastic example. The lesson I got was find a common ground
I was sweating.
That was AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! Great instructional video. Thank You so much
Great seeing Chris bring his knowledge to other creative areas. Loved this episode.
ted and chris. one can sell you almost anything, the other one can set any price he wants... holy crap...
Oh man the irony here is that I'm more used to "our budget is £100 per day", where my actual rate is £500 per day. (£500 is about $625 USD) and working my way up to there, but this is all really great stuff.
My favorite interview by far!! Super insightful and relevant to where I am in my video production business
I LOVE THIS CHANNEL!!!! Oh my gosh so much of the content on this channel is F***ing GOLDEN!
Love Chris Do's advice, always great to learn from the master!
YEEESSSSSSSSS I LOVE IT.. 👏🏾
Well done Ted and team, and amazing from Chris as always. Chris always teaches for all creatives but it is focused from the point of logo making, and sometimes gives videography examples... But I love this was videography focused and specific, especially with all the questions 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
This was the single most helpful video on pricing and negotiations.
Glad to hear
What are exact things I should clarify with my client. For example: how long the shoot, overtime, and how many revisions. What is that entire list of things we need to set in stone in the beginning?
first, know what your costs are. if you do it for less than X you will lose money. Make sure you take into consideration all the non-billable time as well such as, meetings, coordination, prep, etc… Try to find out the value to the client. Why does this matter to them? the difference between the cost to make and value to the client is part of the art & science of pricing.
I cannot thank you enough for this video! Lately, I've been stressing over how to set my rates to the point of sleepless nights. This has been incredibly helpful, thank you!
You’re welcome! Chris is a really special person.
So much good advice! Thanks for putting this out there for all to see.
Best collab ever!!! I got goosebump right now
Ooooh the legendary Chris Do.
13:46 fu*cked my head up, thx you for that
That was really awesome! I learned a lot from this demonstration! Good work Chris! More of this at Indy Mogul please! :)
Appreciate it
Great, and a I loved the switching round of info from client side to your own side. Speaking money is always tricky:)
Love the content. Love the tips. And leaving a comment for the algorithm! lol. Much love from Baltimore, MD!!!
thanks for having Chris. huge fan of his stuff.
Talk about worlds colliding!! This is amazing!!
Thanks Scott.
This dude gives so much freaking value!
This is the mashup I've been waiting for!!!
This is so dope. I love the breakdown of everything. Just reaffirms things I’ve known for a while. Great stuff.
Master Do.
Simple human are just not ready for the skills.
Great tips mate. thank you!
This was so amazingly informative and helpful. Thank you so much 🙏 for making this
Really good video! Definitely learnt a lot about how to negotiate the best rate!
thanks you for this amazing interview, yours negociation tactics will help me a lot , a lot !!
Thank you so much for making this video! Please make more negotiating videos. 💕
check out our channel for more negotiation
This is a simulated scenario. If you’re dealing with a real business person, they won’t results. They pay if they will get results They want. Also, if somebody is trying to lowball you every step of the way, when it comes to creative work, what do you think the delivery and the clients feedback will be like? The real world is totally different. I do appreciate this video, it’s entertaining.
Most producers don’t even want to pay $500! Most listings are for like 150-200! Haha.
ok that dropped at the right time. Thank you! was frustrated until this dropped.
This was so helpful! I always feel a bit cheeky asking for more money that they're offering but this has definitely given me an idea on how to handle the situation. Thanks! :D
It's a business deal, you have your bills to pay and should know the worth of your quality of work. Notice how the original "anchor" was $500 despite the budget max being $1,000? If they are able to save on their budget, they are going to take the opportunity.
@@johnc417 Company reps are so bully, when it comes to taking every dollar out of you.
So, that is why we should stick it together and bully them back: this is the line and I will not let you cross it,
if you want me on this project. It is so hard and scary to say this to someone (in other words, of course),
but to actually STATY COMITTED TO YOURSELF, in the end.
Otherwise, you'll feel shitty, at the end of the day, after shooting and editing like a horse and got underpaid as hell,
while that company rep sits and laughs, for hiring someone for so low and getting the project done for so less more money.
Im really enjoying these videos with Chris
LOVED THIS VIDEO AND PART 2!!! Thank you!
Great stuff, fantastic work, terrific advice and excellent hat.