I had been looking at these, and I didn't understand what the differences were. Thanks for the excellent explanation! The F256K is definitely a thing of beauty!
Thank you very much for doing the series of videos on the F256K. I just received mine a few weeks ago and have just begun using it, I hope to port some of my old C64 programs (mostly BASIC with some ML) to this new retro system. I am amazed at the quality and for sure need to read the manual as some things are not entirely obvious. IE: What the Restore key does because for me it just changes a character on the top line every time you press it. Being so used to Run/Stop + Restore to get our of whatever is 2nd nature and on the F256K it doesn't seem to do that. Same with CLR/HOME as it doesn't go to the home position of the screen nore does it clear the screen. Keep up the good work.
Some of the built-in features that you mention are still coming along on the F256 platform (RESTORE, for instance) and combinations of such. They were defined in hardware but connection to the Kernel is not yet there. But one thing the F256 has that the Commodore platforms never had is the ability to stop the CPU externally (through the USB debug port) and pull memory or push in memory. Also, the rest button will (similarly to a 64 if so equipped) will reset the machine, leaving most of memory alone. There is no 'un-new' command yet but I'm sure the people maintaining SuperBASIC now can work one up at some point. If you haven't done so, have a look at these 'Newsletters' which I publish and have tons of information and articles about the F256 specifically. You can download the PDFs here -> apps.emwhite.org/foenixmarketplace Otherwise, I'm glad you like the platform. See page two of any of the full issues for links to the DISCORD channel (also published in most of my videos here). Thanks for the feedback/message.
Nah, it's reasonably priced considering what you get and I don't mind paying for it; it will support continued development. Of course I'm not buying it to run Commodore 64 games (that's not the intended use); there are tons of options out there. This one just happens to have a really good combination of capabilities, well packaged.
Very cool video! I hope there will be cool cartridges developed, games or programs. Since NES mapper carts are more difficult to find nowadays (not mapper 30, i mean MMC1,3,5,...), this could be cool alternative for cartridge homebrew!
Lots to do, yes. People are just getting onboard as these have only been selling since the start of year. Check back at end of summer and you'll see a vastly different landscape. Thanks for the comment.
I have been looking at these for a while now. I have zero programming skill, but I want to learn. I really have been thinking about getting one of the F256K some day. I hope to learn assembly for 6502 and maybe learn to program music for the SID and OPL3. I just have to wait until I am a little more flush with cash.
It's a good option, versus trying to keep an old / vintage machine running and if you are just learning, the SuperBASIC language is full featured. Luckily, 6502 resources are everywhere and I've been personally porting C64 assembly language recently. You'll see a post for the Commodore Christmas Demo music in a few days; I'll have it on GitHub also so others can learn from it as I have. If the F256 is on the edge of expensive for you but you want to get started, look to pick up a F256 Jr. but you'll need to purchase SID chips and of course, it does not have an OPL3. The F256K is a beautiful machine but if I'm being honest, I do most of my work on my Jr. just because of the way my desk is organized at the moment. Thanks for the comment.
This thing in the 65C816 variant seems exciting. We can expect such a machine to outperform most any 8-bit machine to date that *I* know of. That Processor is 8 bit, yet can do 16 bit addressing on the RAM, right?
Correct. It has 16 bit-registers, and additional instructions for 'far' jumping. It takes a little getting used to (in order to access the full 24 bit memory map) but the best part is that it resets (powers on) natively into 65C02 emulation mode so it can do either. At present, the F256 machine supports the additional opcodes and 16 bit register functionality but the MMU which in onboard, must be used in order access the additional 8K banks of memory; shortly, new memory model support will be released which provides a linear memory map where you can address 03:FE62 (as an example) rather than having to bank a particular 8K bank into 65C02 'visible' footprint. Point is, the new capability will let you do both, just as you can on the Foenix C256U+, Foenix FMX, and the upcoming Foenix GEN-X system. Thank you for the question.
Specifically: "Goodisory A01 Aluminum Mini-ITX HTPC Desktop Computer Chassis (Black Aluminum)" sold by Amazon, but this is an item shipped from China so you may find it sold by other vendors. It's all aluminum and well finished, useful rear punchouts for wiring/switches, and works well with the Jr. I paid (and it still sells for) $49 Prime.
Thinking the 2 computer options I suspect the goal was they keyboard version, but in order to make the computer more accessible they thought how can they give the majority of the experience andbl compatibility at the lowest price without reducing quality and I think the jr is the result. Quite a good 2 options.
The F256 Jr. was first and at the time, the 'only'. It was a rethinking of the C256U which was a low-cost model produced about 2 years ago; but shortly upon release of the F256 Jr. (this past January), the idea of a keyboard based model with a custom case and all ports brought to the edges of the machine was floated and the take-up and appeal has been very good. I believe a new round of 'Jr.' boards is being produced now for the next generation of customers interested in getting onboard with the low-cost platform. With the exception of the audio section, they are functionally identical but of course, the F256K (keyboard version) makes you feel like you bought an 80's/90's computer, not a kit. I have, and really like both.
I have to do a research of my own. You have made me be interresting, but didn't have answers to the core. These vids where barely helping me. What Clockspeed, what graphic modes f.ex.? How many colors in each? So many missing information..
It's true. There are thousands of details, all available on the website which is linked in the description; I'm not here to sell, just to share some of the information in somewhat organized fashion. If you are interested in something specific, have a look at the full specifications which are all one click away. I may as well mention that these are not sponsored videos; I have no problem paying for my own gear, I just happen to like this platform; thank you for the feedback.
I plan on showcasing a series of demos, games, and utilities that others have written in about a month; I'll definitely be referring to specific features as I do so across two or maybe three focused videos, so you'll have a good idea of what the capabilities are from them. The Graphics portion of the SuperBASIC video (in about a week) will go into a fair amount of depth in the area that many are interested in, but between the interrupt facility, memory management, device support, and audio; it will be tough to cover all bases without knowing what individuals are interested in. One quick suggestion for now; have a look at the 100+ page reference manual here: github.com/pweingar/C256jrManual/blob/main/tex/f256jr_ref.pdf (much of it is dry register tables and sample assembly language code but each section begins with a paragraph or two and diagrams in some cases outlining capabilities; that may be helpful). Finally, here are 3 quick graphic/display specs: Palette of 256 on-screen colors organized in multiple palettes of full 24-bit RGB color plus transparent; 64 sprites per scanline (one game, for instance, uses 192 sprites and 3 independently scrolling tile layers, simultaneously); Full featured layer system which interleaves sprite, bitmap, tile layers with text on top and the 640x480 text mode and it has two fully redefinable character sets. One discord member recently released a character set editor to accompany his sprite/tile and tile map editor.
I think the KEYBOARD DESIGN with the clicky keyboard and real key travel is fabulous, and you should stick a Raspberry Pi in there that can emulate just about anything. Similar to a Raspberry Pi 400, but with a real keyboard not a flimsy self-destructing wimp-keyboard. Putting a 65*02 in there is a waste of potential and will severely limit sales volume. Just my opinion for whatever it's worth. Not many people will have the time to write software for yet another proprietary system such as SuperBASIC. And why would one ever want to extend any system that is built around such a bottleneck as the 6502.
Good questions. There are lots of people that find a challenge in developing code on period specific CPUs such as the Z80, 68K and here, the WDC CPUs. I suppose if you have to ask, it's not for you and that's cool. Sure, my laptop is 'better' and a Pi is 'cheaper'. But neither are as rewarding if you are serious about cycle optimized development and exploring a large set of unexplored graphics and audio capabilities. I get enough Python and bloated operating systems in my day job, but that's just me and a few hundred people like me.
@@8-bitwallofdoom Thank you for your answer, I understand and agree! And THIS is definitely a labor of love, and very well done at that. Thank you and keep right on creating!
I had been looking at these, and I didn't understand what the differences were. Thanks for the excellent explanation!
The F256K is definitely a thing of beauty!
Thank you very much for doing the series of videos on the F256K. I just received mine a few weeks ago and have just begun using it, I hope to port some of my old C64 programs (mostly BASIC with some ML) to this new retro system. I am amazed at the quality and for sure need to read the manual as some things are not entirely obvious. IE: What the Restore key does because for me it just changes a character on the top line every time you press it. Being so used to Run/Stop + Restore to get our of whatever is 2nd nature and on the F256K it doesn't seem to do that. Same with CLR/HOME as it doesn't go to the home position of the screen nore does it clear the screen. Keep up the good work.
Some of the built-in features that you mention are still coming along on the F256 platform (RESTORE, for instance) and combinations of such. They were defined in hardware but connection to the Kernel is not yet there. But one thing the F256 has that the Commodore platforms never had is the ability to stop the CPU externally (through the USB debug port) and pull memory or push in memory. Also, the rest button will (similarly to a 64 if so equipped) will reset the machine, leaving most of memory alone. There is no 'un-new' command yet but I'm sure the people maintaining SuperBASIC now can work one up at some point. If you haven't done so, have a look at these 'Newsletters' which I publish and have tons of information and articles about the F256 specifically. You can download the PDFs here -> apps.emwhite.org/foenixmarketplace Otherwise, I'm glad you like the platform. See page two of any of the full issues for links to the DISCORD channel (also published in most of my videos here). Thanks for the feedback/message.
@@8-bitwallofdoom Cool! I will for sure check those out. Thanks again.
Great video, I hope they are sponsoring some of this gear as I had no idea about the product until this video popped up in my feed. Looks interesting
Nah, it's reasonably priced considering what you get and I don't mind paying for it; it will support continued development. Of course I'm not buying it to run Commodore 64 games (that's not the intended use); there are tons of options out there. This one just happens to have a really good combination of capabilities, well packaged.
Thank you for the video! It was very informative and practical!
Very cool video! I hope there will be cool cartridges developed, games or programs. Since NES mapper carts are more difficult to find nowadays (not mapper 30, i mean MMC1,3,5,...), this could be cool alternative for cartridge homebrew!
Lots to do, yes. People are just getting onboard as these have only been selling since the start of year. Check back at end of summer and you'll see a vastly different landscape. Thanks for the comment.
Since I live in the UK, I actually EXPECT a quote above the 2.
Is that a modern UK convention? (laptops/chrome books) or just vintage? Curious.
@@8-bitwallofdoom No, it's our standard keyboard layout.
That's where it was on my TRS-80, 44 years ago.
I have been looking at these for a while now. I have zero programming skill, but I want to learn. I really have been thinking about getting one of the F256K some day. I hope to learn assembly for 6502 and maybe learn to program music for the SID and OPL3. I just have to wait until I am a little more flush with cash.
It's a good option, versus trying to keep an old / vintage machine running and if you are just learning, the SuperBASIC language is full featured. Luckily, 6502 resources are everywhere and I've been personally porting C64 assembly language recently. You'll see a post for the Commodore Christmas Demo music in a few days; I'll have it on GitHub also so others can learn from it as I have. If the F256 is on the edge of expensive for you but you want to get started, look to pick up a F256 Jr. but you'll need to purchase SID chips and of course, it does not have an OPL3. The F256K is a beautiful machine but if I'm being honest, I do most of my work on my Jr. just because of the way my desk is organized at the moment. Thanks for the comment.
This thing in the 65C816 variant seems exciting. We can expect such a machine to outperform most any 8-bit machine to date that *I* know of. That Processor is 8 bit, yet can do 16 bit addressing on the RAM, right?
Correct. It has 16 bit-registers, and additional instructions for 'far' jumping. It takes a little getting used to (in order to access the full 24 bit memory map) but the best part is that it resets (powers on) natively into 65C02 emulation mode so it can do either. At present, the F256 machine supports the additional opcodes and 16 bit register functionality but the MMU which in onboard, must be used in order access the additional 8K banks of memory; shortly, new memory model support will be released which provides a linear memory map where you can address 03:FE62 (as an example) rather than having to bank a particular 8K bank into 65C02 'visible' footprint. Point is, the new capability will let you do both, just as you can on the Foenix C256U+, Foenix FMX, and the upcoming Foenix GEN-X system. Thank you for the question.
Hello. Nice video. What enclosure are you using for the Jnr?
Specifically: "Goodisory A01 Aluminum Mini-ITX HTPC Desktop Computer Chassis (Black Aluminum)" sold by Amazon, but this is an item shipped from China so you may find it sold by other vendors. It's all aluminum and well finished, useful rear punchouts for wiring/switches, and works well with the Jr. I paid (and it still sells for) $49 Prime.
Thinking the 2 computer options I suspect the goal was they keyboard version, but in order to make the computer more accessible they thought how can they give the majority of the experience andbl compatibility at the lowest price without reducing quality and I think the jr is the result. Quite a good 2 options.
The F256 Jr. was first and at the time, the 'only'. It was a rethinking of the C256U which was a low-cost model produced about 2 years ago; but shortly upon release of the F256 Jr. (this past January), the idea of a keyboard based model with a custom case and all ports brought to the edges of the machine was floated and the take-up and appeal has been very good.
I believe a new round of 'Jr.' boards is being produced now for the next generation of customers interested in getting onboard with the low-cost platform. With the exception of the audio section, they are functionally identical but of course, the F256K (keyboard version) makes you feel like you bought an 80's/90's computer, not a kit. I have, and really like both.
I have to do a research of my own. You have made me be interresting, but didn't have answers to the core.
These vids where barely helping me.
What Clockspeed, what graphic modes f.ex.? How many colors in each?
So many missing information..
It's true. There are thousands of details, all available on the website which is linked in the description; I'm not here to sell, just to share some of the information in somewhat organized fashion. If you are interested in something specific, have a look at the full specifications which are all one click away. I may as well mention that these are not sponsored videos; I have no problem paying for my own gear, I just happen to like this platform; thank you for the feedback.
@@8-bitwallofdoom I understand, u can't be aware of every single quirck.
BUT, pls go in to the overall hardware also.
I plan on showcasing a series of demos, games, and utilities that others have written in about a month; I'll definitely be referring to specific features as I do so across two or maybe three focused videos, so you'll have a good idea of what the capabilities are from them. The Graphics portion of the SuperBASIC video (in about a week) will go into a fair amount of depth in the area that many are interested in, but between the interrupt facility, memory management, device support, and audio; it will be tough to cover all bases without knowing what individuals are interested in.
One quick suggestion for now; have a look at the 100+ page reference manual here: github.com/pweingar/C256jrManual/blob/main/tex/f256jr_ref.pdf (much of it is dry register tables and sample assembly language code but each section begins with a paragraph or two and diagrams in some cases outlining capabilities; that may be helpful).
Finally, here are 3 quick graphic/display specs: Palette of 256 on-screen colors organized in multiple palettes of full 24-bit RGB color plus transparent; 64 sprites per scanline (one game, for instance, uses 192 sprites and 3 independently scrolling tile layers, simultaneously); Full featured layer system which interleaves sprite, bitmap, tile layers with text on top and the 640x480 text mode and it has two fully redefinable character sets. One discord member recently released a character set editor to accompany his sprite/tile and tile map editor.
I think the KEYBOARD DESIGN with the clicky keyboard and real key travel is fabulous, and you should stick a Raspberry Pi in there that can emulate just about anything. Similar to a Raspberry Pi 400, but with a real keyboard not a flimsy self-destructing wimp-keyboard. Putting a 65*02 in there is a waste of potential and will severely limit sales volume. Just my opinion for whatever it's worth. Not many people will have the time to write software for yet another proprietary system such as SuperBASIC. And why would one ever want to extend any system that is built around such a bottleneck as the 6502.
Good questions. There are lots of people that find a challenge in developing code on period specific CPUs such as the Z80, 68K and here, the WDC CPUs. I suppose if you have to ask, it's not for you and that's cool. Sure, my laptop is 'better' and a Pi is 'cheaper'. But neither are as rewarding if you are serious about cycle optimized development and exploring a large set of unexplored graphics and audio capabilities. I get enough Python and bloated operating systems in my day job, but that's just me and a few hundred people like me.
@@8-bitwallofdoom Thank you for your answer, I understand and agree! And THIS is definitely a labor of love, and very well done at that. Thank you and keep right on creating!