My only real issue with PGA Tour vs LIV is that many of the things that PGA Tour supporters bring up as negative aspects of LIV (limited fields, no cut events, guaranteed money, etc…) are all being implemented by the PGA Tour going forward. I understand that these changes are being done to satisfy the top players that bring in the fans/revenue, but I think it is hypocritical and not fair to the average PGA Tour member (or the LIV players).
Two things with the OWGR. Firstly, we should not just focus on LIV, but the DP World Tour as well. The majors (especially The Masters) currently use the OWGR and DP has no one in the top 50, and soon few in the top 100. Europe is effectively being shut out of the majors which is interesting considering they just won the Ryder Cup. Secondly, it wont matter for long as I suspect the majors will reduce the role of OWGR in fields pending the outcode of the PIF merger.
I think it makes sense for the LIV players to have no OWGR ranking. OWGR is a closed group and is not based on a merit based system where the best players are graded. It is and has been irrelevant as soon as LIV was formed. As those players have not been judged by their performance.
The job of the OWGR is to rank players - that's it. By excluding some tours their system becomes totally obsolete, because its not representative of all golfers currently active. If a ranking is not inclusive of all players, it cant be an official ranking
What is even funnier is Europeans defending the OWGR, when the DPWT has been screwed the most out of points, literally the PGAT have used the OWGR to turn the DPWT into a feeder tour ranked even below the KFT.
Also maybe time for OWGR to have some competition. LIV should start ranking system that includes all golfers, simply based on points per tournament prorated on 54 vs 72. Then host 2 or 3 tournaments per year where top 70 players are included, play traditional 72 hole tournament with 36 hole cut, so fans actually get to see all top players play against each other. Based on the success of LIV in such a short time frame why wait for the old guard to come around. Create what the fans want to see😊
Love the content! I think you guys are on to something with winter golf in Florida. You could get together with other UK RUclips golfers and get a timeshare or rent a Florida mansion for the winter, it will be called the UK House! Lots of other RUclipsrs do this stuff.
There’s no issue with 54 holes or the size of field, it’s the relegation and qualification. You can’t have a cut with 48 players and you don’t need a cut! Liv is a better spectacle for fans because you know the line up! All players start at the same time!
Exactly. The OWGR's response stated that 54 holes and no cuts is not an issue, if these guys bothered to do proper research beforehand they would have known this.
Sports fan's i general like a competition that is an intense atmosphere. Liv promotes that it is fun for the players. Did Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Larry Bird or Bryce Harper care if the event they are playing is fun for the competitors? Nope , we care that everyone competing is pushed to their maximum mental and physical limits. Liv's premise is bogus and any fan knows it. It is what you get at a muni tournament.
I find Liv so much easier to watch cause I know the field, then on a random DP event I’ve got no idea who they are, or any connection, I’ve now grown to know the whole field. PGA I can only watch the top top events and then there still Random’s that I’m not invested in. It’s like some Sunday league player gets promoted for a weekend cause he’s on fire.
@@MichaelLowesI hear you! You know who’s going to be playing in every Liv event barring injury. Regular tour you get players withdrawing and field strength is inconsistent.
Another great podcast and what a venue. Gil Hanse designed Craighead Links at Crail Golfing Society. Played it a couple of months ago a great modern links course. Most golfers rightly play the other course Balcomie at Crail because of it history and connection with Old Tom, but if you’ve got the time to play both well worth it. Castle Stuart I believe is also one of his designs. Great excuse to plan another trip north of the border.
Why is golf ranking against the field, if they ranked players against the course, then every golfer in the world could get ranked immediately. You play the course not the field.
OWGR company is owned by the PGA tours and the R&A so there is no chance LIV players are going to get ranking points because LIV don't own or fund the "Company" that gives out the points! This could easily be tweaked to give the LIV tour players points at a handicap or something like that as they dont play the full 72 holes!!
The only thought I have is, PGA now having “elevated “ events that are now limited to the top players(closed shop, no cut), does now playing in those events eliminate ranking points when playing those events?
Same as with the Majors - you can qualify, via your play, to get there. So Majors not only get OWGR points, they’re actually weighted more significantly. LIV had no open qualifying to be a LIV player, which meant their roster was littered with players of Chase Koepka’s caliber. The only open qualification for LIV was an open hand willing to accept LIV cash. That type of open (handed) qualification process was deemed unworthy of OWGR points, and rightfully so, in my opinion.
I think most golf fans would be happy if the PGA, DP, LIV & OGWR just sat down together, were willing to collectively compromise, formulate a ranking that does attempt to recognise the different formats of each tour and is reviewed biennially to evolve with the times.
How many players on the Aussie tour played in The Open, The Masters etc...? The OWGR is obsolete now, there are better ranking systems which don't use politics in their system.
Ranking should be on score averages as the year progresses the score worldwide is top Dog. Not how played in a tournament if a player tee it up and shoots 65 every round, for the year he would be top dog regardless of where he plays in the world. this would change the dynamics of the game worldwide.
So what happens next year? The PGA is talking about some no cuts events. So they will not get points for those events? OWGR needs to come up with a better way to measure the best golfers in the world period. How can any player on the current list say they are the best when there are great players that don’t get measure?
There were definite problems with the OWG rankings before LIV came about. What LIV should do, in my opinion, is create their own ranking system that also includes those on the other tours. Perhaps call it the UNofficial World Golf rankings that better reflect the actual rankings for those players who are consistently playing well.
I think phil was talking pga when referring to Monopoly. Can't have cut after 1st day of LIV due to "team" competition. Well, maybe you could. Alot of LIV followers like myself really enjoy the team competition.
Great Podcast as always, shame the Florida storm kept you inside , we as a group have suffered similarly on the odd occasion out there . Looking forward to seeing the vlogs coming soon . Keep up the great content guys .
Pete's comments about the OWGR being a closed shop are spot on. It's hypocrisy. They are saying LIV is a closed shop but so are they. The remit of the OWGR is to rank ALL professional golfers. It is THEIR job to devise a system to do so. Not a fan of LIV, but the players should be ranked in some way. Its OWGRs job to find a way to do it. The landscape of golf is changing and OWGR need to change with it.
Sports fan's in general like a competition that is an intense atmosphere. Liv promotes that it is fun for the players. Did Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Larry Bird or Bryce Harper care if the event they are playing is fun for the competitors? Nope , we care that everyone competing is pushed to their maximum mental and physical limits. Liv's premise is bogus and any fan knows it. It is what you get at a muni tournament.
@@GnofgLIV players would disagree. How about you tune into the championships going on as we speak? LIV is more competitive than a low PGA tour event so I don’t see your point
@@Gnofg alright mister sports fan. Name me one professional league in America that doesn’t pay half of their players for underperforming? Name me another league that makes its players pay for not only their own stay, and travel but their entire team, along with their family to come watch them play? I’ll wait
@@Bpongs22 I went to Ebbets field in 1955 and saw Jackie Robinson play. I was in the Cardinal clubhouse in 1963 at the Polo grounds for Stan Musial night and Stan signed a ball to me and my brother with our names on it. I have 16 signed baseballs from the late 40’s including one with the 1948 Indians worth $10k. I have watched every NBA finals since 1965. I saw every NCAA finals since 1965 including the Texas Western beating Kentucky and every UCLA championship. I saw the ice bowl and every NFL championship since 1960. I saw Nicklaus and Palmer in their prime. Top that.
Fully agree with the comments about the format not being equitable. It would be an absolute farce if they were to get world ranking points in a system that doesnt fairly measure performance
Realistically the OWGR only matters when it comes to major qualification. Otherwise, like you said in the video, it's up for public debate as to who is the best, we don't need an institution to point it out to us. If you really want to talk about competition proving the best players then at majors have no automatic qualification except for past winners (as it is already) along with previous years top 10 at the respective major and make everyone else go through qualifying. It will make qualifying events more appealing and more competitive. Just get rid of OWGR altogether because if it doesn't effect major qualification it becomes redundant. If you do keep the OWGR, it should be the job of the OWGR to rank golfers irrespective of the structure of the competition they play in. If they determine LIV isn't as competitive because of the limited field, no cut then give them 70% of the points they would get on another tour or whatever change you think necessary. The way rankings are determined don't have to be set in stone, in fact they should always change to make it more accurate. What are they doing all day at the OWGR if they aren't actively trying to figure out how to rank golfers fairly?
What if LIV didn’t have a cut to maintain their entertainment, but have something like if you are this many shots off the lead, you don’t get ranking points. Or bottom 20 don’t get points. Just throwing ideas.
There are other tournaments on the PGAT that have no cuts and get OWGR points......the 'no cuts' thing is a non issue as stated by the OWGR's response.
The format is not the issue. OWGR said so. And it's not because it's closed. LIV added relegation pre OWGR recommendation and OWGR still said no. It's just politics because PGA loses money from broadcast if they don't have the top players. So if OWGR (which is 100% controlled by PGA) allowed LIV players to have ranking points, PGA would not have all the top players and broadcasters would pull money from PGA for breaking their contracts stating that they would have the top players.
The negative aspect of us not being able to see some great players at majors reflects on the liv players who prioritised money over playing in these historic and important majors
Damn. You guys played the Park. Been wanting to get there. But it’s kinda expensive for a public course. Also looks like you came here the worst week weather wise. That’s florida for ya. Also. Palm beach area has more golf courses per square mile than anywhere in the world.
Nothing needs to be done to accommodate LIV. The players who joined it with contracts joined to get more money--not life-changing money, just more. They made their choice. Well and good. And if the argument is that OWGR is a closed shop, what of it? You could apply that so-called reasoning to nearly any professional body. Being a closed shop is the point.
A plus from the OWGR on this one. If they made exceptions for LIV then the TGL could request access to OWGR points. I’d put my money on the fact that the later is a bit more insightful and understand what “exhibition” means 😅
@@andrew_l1900I’d like to agree with you but I’m afraid I don’t see it as the same. You still have to play well to enter HWC, are “cut” if you don’t meet the qualifications (not a real cut I know) and anyone can play well enough to enter. Not too dissimilar from how the Majors work. LIV is none of those things at all. I will say I don’t think the two spots filled by special exceptions should get any since it’s possible there game didn’t get them there (assuming they do). I’d be on board for lowering the points they receive at the HWC too.
LIV Players certainly have a couple of ways to gain OWGR Points. The Open and US Open are Qualifiers. They can go and try like everybody else is who isn't otherwise qualified. The Masters is an Invitational and can invite whoever they like. The PGA, I believe, requires you to be a member of The PGA (Not the PGA Tour). THAT one might be a bit tougher to get into. Granted, you only get the points available for those Majors, but they will get points.
OWGR stated what their requirements were and LIV complied then OWGR turned around and lied about the compliance. Originally, it was the format and LIV said they'd go to a four day event with a cut if that would get world ranking points. OWGR said no, the format is fine since there are other tournaments that are 3 days with no cut where they award points. Then OWGR said it was closed so LIV added a relegation system approved by OWGR. OWGR turned around and said it was closed. This is all politics. OWGR should not decide what is acceptable for a new tour or not. They should just rank the players. I don't even understand why a tour has to apply. Either you rank the best players or you're obsolete. Right now, OWGR is obsolete.
Lol, LIV is supposed to fall in line with OWGR? when OWGR ranks 54 hole tournaments, weird events like Tiger's Hero, The tour championship which a handicapped event and others. That's not how it works, OWGR, should be able to like the other dozen or so ranking systems available right now be able to rank any player on any tour. The bs excuses and repeated lines over the last 18months is hilarious.
Tons of misinformation in this podcast about OWGR and LIV. Here is the accurate information. 1. LIV agreed to change the format if needed. 2. OWGR stated point blank the format was not the problem. 3. The OWGR board is controlled by PGA. 4. OWGR was never going to give ranking points to LIV. It's all politics. 5. PGA does leverage their contracts. (That means borrow against it) 6. PGA only gets the full amount from their contracts with broadcasters IF they have the top players. Anyone wonder why OWGR would not want LIV to get ranking points? Yes, it's all about the money. But PGA's money, not LIV.
Oh, and now you know why players were banned once they went to LIV. It's so their rankings would fall so that PGA didn't lose money from their contracts. This is also why PGA was upset that some LIV players were allowed to play in the majors. But PGA didn't control those. Think about it. If OWGR allowed LIV to have points, then LIV would want the points to be retroactive. Meaning that the last year and a half would count. PGA would lose money if that were to happen. There won't be any merger. That tentative deal was only put in place so PGA could put a stop to LIV poaching players until they could ramp up some more sponsorships.
Really poor analysis of the OWGR. The new points system that was recently introduced is licensed by the PGA Tour(which shock, horror greatly benefits the PGA Tour). This is the closed shop Phil refers to and I have to wonder why you skirted over the elephant in the room that if the system changes there will be major financial ramifications for the PGA Tour. With regards to ‘qualifying’, can anybody on the podcast explain how a female qualified to play on the PGA Tour last week with the opportunity to pick-up world ranking points? Jordan Speith gets picked every year(as a member of the Jupiter boys clubs) to go and play Tigers hit and giggle, he finishes last everytime by a mile yet picks up world ranking points. Please guys, don’t get me started on Matt Fitzpatricks picking up points for playing a ‘tournament’ on 3 different courses over 3 days…he playing with his mum FFS!
If LIV wanted to they could easily tweak their format to please the OWGR. I question whether there is sufficient push from the top of LIV to achieve that. Maybe their thinking was to apply for OWGR in their current format and then tweak based on feedback. The Phil Mickelsons of this world won't be bothered but there are plenty of LIV guys who absolutely would want to get into more majors.
OWGR has helped PGA to loose even more fans to LIV Golf. The PGA monopoly and bullying tactics are clear to see for everybody. You guys are entitled to your opinion as are the rest of golf followers. I for one don't watch any PGA events since LIV started...and together with the 4 majors and the few you tube golf channels I follow, I have enough golf to watch. Just something to think about...players in weak fields on DP tour gets points...so I guess you think all of them are also better than all the players in LIV...? The PGA just has this attitude that if you don't play with us, we will make sure you can't play with anybody else...in my eyes typical American arrogance! And on that point...can you imagine what a shitshow the Presidents Cup will be with the best South African and Australian players in LIV...who will even watch that?
Having a cut has been proved nul and void with the PGA Tour having no cut events. The Sentry, Zozo, WGC, CJ Cup are all limited fields with no cuts and ranking points. It's the OWGR role to rank players, that is their job. There are Tours that have 54 hole events. Simply put, reduced points, the bottom half get nothing, equivalent of a cut. Golf used to be played that way with no cut, just a cut off on the prize money, things change, the world evolves. The current way of doing things was not always the way. Jacob, players leave Europe to play the PGA Tour for the $, not the legacy
Sports fan's i general like a competition that is an intense atmosphere. Liv promotes that it is fun for the players. Did Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Larry Bird or Bryce Harper care if the event they are playing is fun for the competitors? Nope , we care that everyone competing is pushed to their maximum mental and physical limits. Liv's premise is bogus and any fan knows it. It is what you get at a muni tournament.
@@Gnofg not even close to a Muni Tournament. Having attended one myself, the players are still playing to win and you can see that when they play, the fun is the added extras. Watching them grinding on the range and putting green after the final round is over and the frustration after a bad day shows they still want to win each event. Outside the ropes, it is a great spectacle for the fans. The best part of it is Yanks getting butthurt over their PGA Tour being compromised when LIV rolled out, Yanks think they own the game, if anyone does, Scotland does.
It's just golf, watch what you like. Interesting points on liv players having to have qualifying and have a way in etc .... Then congrats to Lexi on playing, yeah i know ... wildcard .. still didn't qualify, just a straight free pass. Ohh but that is 'good for golf' I just feel the owgr system should be easy here, 3 rounds not 4 = 3/4 of the points. smaller fields with lower ranked players = smaller overall points. Just those 2 things would mean the points are so much lower and really stop liv officials / players complaining as they're getting 'points' but still leave them in limbo with the points being virtually useless. Seems so easy to shut people up if they wanted to. Now i love liv so think this idea would suck ... but it seems so easy to silence them. Just americans being americans .... "it's ours, we want to keep it and control it"
So, should Tiger's event get points? 16 players, selected by Tiger, no cut. They get points because Tiger wants them to have points. There are not hundreds of tours that comply ... it's 24. It's usually a good idea to check your facts before spouting off. The technical points are garbage and have been refuted by many. It's all politics. The Official Worst Golf Ranking is now irrelevant.
Lots of professional golfers (all of them) know that a poor field in the US gets more points than a strong field in the DPW Tour. Remember Jon Rahm's press conference? He might be the first to say it out loud but they're all thinking it. You guys are European. You should be defending your tour. The monopoly is the OWGR occupying the same address at Wentworth Drive; USPGAT owning 40% of DPW Tour. No point pretending like you don't know what Phil is talking about.
LIV would get a deeper field and possibly be able to introduce a cut later on if they were given OWGR points because more players would go there knowing they’re getting points. LIV also has the international feeder tour that the 4 players cut from the roster get replaced with. Again, OWGR is a joke
Some very uninformed takes here, you guys really need to do proper research beforehand, the 54 holes and 'no cuts' thing is a non issue as stated by OWGR's response, it is the qualification 'closed shop' process and Captain's immunity from relegation that are the main issues, a formula for giving OWGR points can be made for everything else including the team play. Basically LIV's current qualification and relegation process is the technical reason it got rejected. Phil Mickelson has also been right about everything so far regarding the PGAT and LIV, so his twitter response will most likely age well.....
Jakob nailed it. When the players went too Liv they did it fore the money and playing less tournaments as they say. Could the Livplayers go and qualify fore majors?
They can enter qualifying for the open and the US open but the masters is an invitational and not sure how you qualify for the PGA but think it’s ranking based.
people moaning about liv are just daft. things in life progress and get better, people are stubborn and dont like change. like var in football, we evolve and so does golf. get over it.
As long as LIV is invite only and it's the same people playing over and over, how can you justly give World ranking points?! I'm not a fan of LIV, but I'm also very much not a fan of the ones who run the PGA Tour(and other big tours). It's Saudi money vs. OLD money. One side is greedy AF and the other dont give 2 shits about money, but want to buy entertainment, no matter how it fits in with the rest of the sport.
Agree and should maybe be less of a fan with PGA since they promoted political message to convince many of their players to pass on LIV offers, then cave when they were offered the $$$
Why are we hurting people for wanting work less and make more? I promise they’re just as competitive as any PGAT event outside of the majors and maybe a couple other events. Hero’s gets world points, how bout the 54-hole Mexican tour getting approved at the same time LIV was denied? Rahm said it best. The OWGR is LAUGHABLE
![Tee Grizzley - Detroit (Feat. 42 Dugg) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aeKfTtt0x14/mqdefault.jpg)
My only real issue with PGA Tour vs LIV is that many of the things that PGA Tour supporters bring up as negative aspects of LIV (limited fields, no cut events, guaranteed money, etc…) are all being implemented by the PGA Tour going forward. I understand that these changes are being done to satisfy the top players that bring in the fans/revenue, but I think it is hypocritical and not fair to the average PGA Tour member (or the LIV players).
Two things with the OWGR. Firstly, we should not just focus on LIV, but the DP World Tour as well. The majors (especially The Masters) currently use the OWGR and DP has no one in the top 50, and soon few in the top 100. Europe is effectively being shut out of the majors which is interesting considering they just won the Ryder Cup.
Secondly, it wont matter for long as I suspect the majors will reduce the role of OWGR in fields pending the outcode of the PIF merger.
I think it makes sense for the LIV players to have no OWGR ranking. OWGR is a closed group and is not based on a merit based system where the best players are graded. It is and has been irrelevant as soon as LIV was formed. As those players have not been judged by their performance.
The job of the OWGR is to rank players - that's it. By excluding some tours their system becomes totally obsolete, because its not representative of all golfers currently active. If a ranking is not inclusive of all players, it cant be an official ranking
What is even funnier is Europeans defending the OWGR, when the DPWT has been screwed the most out of points, literally the PGAT have used the OWGR to turn the DPWT into a feeder tour ranked even below the KFT.
Also maybe time for OWGR to have some competition. LIV should start ranking system that includes all golfers, simply based on points per tournament prorated on 54 vs 72. Then host 2 or 3 tournaments per year where top 70 players are included, play traditional 72 hole tournament with 36 hole cut, so fans actually get to see all top players play against each other. Based on the success of LIV in such a short time frame why wait for the old guard to come around. Create what the fans want to see😊
Love the content!
I think you guys are on to something with winter golf in Florida. You could get together with other UK RUclips golfers and get a timeshare or rent a Florida mansion for the winter, it will be called the UK House!
Lots of other RUclipsrs do this stuff.
There’s no issue with 54 holes or the size of field, it’s the relegation and qualification. You can’t have a cut with 48 players and you don’t need a cut! Liv is a better spectacle for fans because you know the line up! All players start at the same time!
Exactly. The OWGR's response stated that 54 holes and no cuts is not an issue, if these guys bothered to do proper research beforehand they would have known this.
Sports fan's i general like a competition that is an intense atmosphere. Liv promotes that it is fun for the players. Did Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Larry Bird or Bryce Harper care if the event they are playing is fun for the competitors? Nope , we care that everyone competing is pushed to their maximum mental and physical limits.
Liv's premise is bogus and any fan knows it. It is what you get at a muni tournament.
I find Liv so much easier to watch cause I know the field, then on a random DP event I’ve got no idea who they are, or any connection, I’ve now grown to know the whole field. PGA I can only watch the top top events and then there still Random’s that I’m not invested in. It’s like some Sunday league player gets promoted for a weekend cause he’s on fire.
@@MichaelLowesI hear you! You know who’s going to be playing in every Liv event barring injury. Regular tour you get players withdrawing and field strength is inconsistent.
@@Gnofgsame comment? 😂
Another great podcast and what a venue. Gil Hanse designed Craighead Links at Crail Golfing Society. Played it a couple of months ago a great modern links course. Most golfers rightly play the other course Balcomie at Crail because of it history and connection with Old Tom, but if you’ve got the time to play both well worth it. Castle Stuart I believe is also one of his designs. Great excuse to plan another trip north of the border.
Why is golf ranking against the field, if they ranked players against the course, then every golfer in the world could get ranked immediately. You play the course not the field.
OWGR company is owned by the PGA tours and the R&A so there is no chance LIV players are going to get ranking points because LIV don't own or fund the "Company" that gives out the points! This could easily be tweaked to give the LIV tour players points at a handicap or something like that as they dont play the full 72 holes!!
The only thought I have is, PGA now having “elevated “ events that are now limited to the top players(closed shop, no cut), does now playing in those events eliminate ranking points when playing those events?
No, because players can qualify each year by being in the top rankings
Same as with the Majors - you can qualify, via your play, to get there. So Majors not only get OWGR points, they’re actually weighted more significantly. LIV had no open qualifying to be a LIV player, which meant their roster was littered with players of Chase Koepka’s caliber. The only open qualification for LIV was an open hand willing to accept LIV cash. That type of open (handed) qualification process was deemed unworthy of OWGR points, and rightfully so, in my opinion.
I think most golf fans would be happy if the PGA, DP, LIV & OGWR just sat down together, were willing to collectively compromise, formulate a ranking that does attempt to recognise the different formats of each tour and is reviewed biennially to evolve with the times.
How many players on the Aussie tour played in The Open, The Masters etc...? The OWGR is obsolete now, there are better ranking systems which don't use politics in their system.
Ranking should be on score averages as the year progresses the score worldwide is top Dog.
Not how played in a tournament if a player tee it up and shoots 65 every round, for the year he would be top dog regardless of where he plays in the world.
this would change the dynamics of the game worldwide.
How a 20man field for the hero challenge gets points but not LIV is hypocrisy at its best.
This
So what happens next year? The PGA is talking about some no cuts events. So they will not get points for those events? OWGR needs to come up with a better way to measure the best golfers in the world period. How can any player on the current list say they are the best when there are great players that don’t get measure?
Would love to see a video with the Bryan Bros, and Ryan Ruffels!!!!
There were definite problems with the OWG rankings before LIV came about. What LIV should do, in my opinion, is create their own ranking system that also includes those on the other tours. Perhaps call it the UNofficial World Golf rankings that better reflect the actual rankings for those players who are consistently playing well.
I think phil was talking pga when referring to Monopoly. Can't have cut after 1st day of LIV due to "team" competition. Well, maybe you could. Alot of LIV followers like myself really enjoy the team competition.
Great Podcast as always, shame the Florida storm kept you inside , we as a group have suffered similarly on the odd occasion out there . Looking forward to seeing the vlogs coming soon . Keep up the great content guys .
Celsius to Fahrenheit easy conversion if above 0. Double and add 30. i.e.. 20 C = 70 F. Not exact but gets you close, with in a few degrees.
Is the 4th person gone invisible apart from their trainers 😂
Hey guys! I am a real estate agent in Florida! Let's get you moved in. No house boats though
Pete's comments about the OWGR being a closed shop are spot on. It's hypocrisy. They are saying LIV is a closed shop but so are they. The remit of the OWGR is to rank ALL professional golfers. It is THEIR job to devise a system to do so. Not a fan of LIV, but the players should be ranked in some way. Its OWGRs job to find a way to do it. The landscape of golf is changing and OWGR need to change with it.
Sports fan's in general like a competition that is an intense atmosphere. Liv promotes that it is fun for the players. Did Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Larry Bird or Bryce Harper care if the event they are playing is fun for the competitors? Nope , we care that everyone competing is pushed to their maximum mental and physical limits.
Liv's premise is bogus and any fan knows it. It is what you get at a muni tournament.
@@GnofgLIV players would disagree. How about you tune into the championships going on as we speak? LIV is more competitive than a low PGA tour event so I don’t see your point
@@Bpongs22 because you aren’t a sports fan.
@@Gnofg alright mister sports fan. Name me one professional league in America that doesn’t pay half of their players for underperforming? Name me another league that makes its players pay for not only their own stay, and travel but their entire team, along with their family to come watch them play? I’ll wait
@@Bpongs22 I went to Ebbets field in 1955 and saw Jackie Robinson play. I was in the Cardinal clubhouse in 1963 at the Polo grounds for Stan Musial night and Stan signed a ball to me and my brother with our names on it.
I have 16 signed baseballs from the late 40’s including one with the 1948 Indians worth $10k.
I have watched every NBA finals since 1965.
I saw every NCAA finals since 1965 including the Texas Western beating Kentucky and every UCLA championship.
I saw the ice bowl and every NFL championship since 1960.
I saw Nicklaus and Palmer in their prime.
Top that.
Fully agree with the comments about the format not being equitable. It would be an absolute farce if they were to get world ranking points in a system that doesnt fairly measure performance
can someone please move the right hand vase on the mantle piece into the right position im a bit ocd and it isnt symetrical
Realistically the OWGR only matters when it comes to major qualification. Otherwise, like you said in the video, it's up for public debate as to who is the best, we don't need an institution to point it out to us. If you really want to talk about competition proving the best players then at majors have no automatic qualification except for past winners (as it is already) along with previous years top 10 at the respective major and make everyone else go through qualifying. It will make qualifying events more appealing and more competitive. Just get rid of OWGR altogether because if it doesn't effect major qualification it becomes redundant.
If you do keep the OWGR, it should be the job of the OWGR to rank golfers irrespective of the structure of the competition they play in. If they determine LIV isn't as competitive because of the limited field, no cut then give them 70% of the points they would get on another tour or whatever change you think necessary. The way rankings are determined don't have to be set in stone, in fact they should always change to make it more accurate. What are they doing all day at the OWGR if they aren't actively trying to figure out how to rank golfers fairly?
Re: LIV and major qualification..........why not have a referendum?
They seem to be both definitive and
controversy free!
What if LIV didn’t have a cut to maintain their entertainment, but have something like if you are this many shots off the lead, you don’t get ranking points. Or bottom 20 don’t get points. Just throwing ideas.
There are other tournaments on the PGAT that have no cuts and get OWGR points......the 'no cuts' thing is a non issue as stated by the OWGR's response.
The format is not the issue. OWGR said so. And it's not because it's closed. LIV added relegation pre OWGR recommendation and OWGR still said no. It's just politics because PGA loses money from broadcast if they don't have the top players. So if OWGR (which is 100% controlled by PGA) allowed LIV players to have ranking points, PGA would not have all the top players and broadcasters would pull money from PGA for breaking their contracts stating that they would have the top players.
The negative aspect of us not being able to see some great players at majors reflects on the liv players who prioritised money over playing in these historic and important majors
Or reflects on the pettiness and monopoly of the golf establishment…….
A lot of the nets are to keep golf balls off the windows lol
Damn. You guys played the Park. Been wanting to get there. But it’s kinda expensive for a public course. Also looks like you came here the worst week weather wise. That’s florida for ya. Also. Palm beach area has more golf courses per square mile than anywhere in the world.
Such a dumb decision from the golf establishment
Nothing needs to be done to accommodate LIV. The players who joined it with contracts joined to get more money--not life-changing money, just more. They made their choice. Well and good. And if the argument is that OWGR is a closed shop, what of it? You could apply that so-called reasoning to nearly any professional body. Being a closed shop is the point.
A plus from the OWGR on this one. If they made exceptions for LIV then the TGL could request access to OWGR points. I’d put my money on the fact that the later is a bit more insightful and understand what “exhibition” means 😅
So explain why the hero world challenge (a closed no cut 20man field) gets points…….?
@@andrew_l1900I’d like to agree with you but I’m afraid I don’t see it as the same. You still have to play well to enter HWC, are “cut” if you don’t meet the qualifications (not a real cut I know) and anyone can play well enough to enter. Not too dissimilar from how the Majors work. LIV is none of those things at all.
I will say I don’t think the two spots filled by special exceptions should get any since it’s possible there game didn’t get them there (assuming they do). I’d be on board for lowering the points they receive at the HWC too.
LIV Players certainly have a couple of ways to gain OWGR Points. The Open and US Open are Qualifiers. They can go and try like everybody else is who isn't otherwise qualified. The Masters is an Invitational and can invite whoever they like. The PGA, I believe, requires you to be a member of The PGA (Not the PGA Tour). THAT one might be a bit tougher to get into. Granted, you only get the points available for those Majors, but they will get points.
OWGR doesn’t effectively rank golfers. It should change its name.
OWGR stated what their requirements were and LIV complied then OWGR turned around and lied about the compliance. Originally, it was the format and LIV said they'd go to a four day event with a cut if that would get world ranking points. OWGR said no, the format is fine since there are other tournaments that are 3 days with no cut where they award points. Then OWGR said it was closed so LIV added a relegation system approved by OWGR. OWGR turned around and said it was closed. This is all politics. OWGR should not decide what is acceptable for a new tour or not. They should just rank the players. I don't even understand why a tour has to apply. Either you rank the best players or you're obsolete. Right now, OWGR is obsolete.
Lol, LIV is supposed to fall in line with OWGR? when OWGR ranks 54 hole tournaments, weird events like Tiger's Hero, The tour championship which a handicapped event and others. That's not how it works, OWGR, should be able to like the other dozen or so ranking systems available right now be able to rank any player on any tour. The bs excuses and repeated lines over the last 18months is hilarious.
You didn’t mention the influence of team play on the competition. Yet another problem.
instead of points for liv give liv so many official earned places in the majors for their own top ranked players
It looks like special effects have been used to make Kieran look tiny on that couch.
Tons of misinformation in this podcast about OWGR and LIV. Here is the accurate information.
1. LIV agreed to change the format if needed.
2. OWGR stated point blank the format was not the problem.
3. The OWGR board is controlled by PGA.
4. OWGR was never going to give ranking points to LIV. It's all politics.
5. PGA does leverage their contracts. (That means borrow against it)
6. PGA only gets the full amount from their contracts with broadcasters IF they have the top players.
Anyone wonder why OWGR would not want LIV to get ranking points? Yes, it's all about the money. But PGA's money, not LIV.
Oh, and now you know why players were banned once they went to LIV. It's so their rankings would fall so that PGA didn't lose money from their contracts. This is also why PGA was upset that some LIV players were allowed to play in the majors. But PGA didn't control those.
Think about it. If OWGR allowed LIV to have points, then LIV would want the points to be retroactive. Meaning that the last year and a half would count. PGA would lose money if that were to happen.
There won't be any merger. That tentative deal was only put in place so PGA could put a stop to LIV poaching players until they could ramp up some more sponsorships.
Really poor analysis of the OWGR.
The new points system that was recently introduced is licensed by the PGA Tour(which shock, horror greatly benefits the PGA Tour). This is the closed shop Phil refers to and I have to wonder why you skirted over the elephant in the room that if the system changes there will be major financial ramifications for the PGA Tour.
With regards to ‘qualifying’, can anybody on the podcast explain how a female qualified to play on the PGA Tour last week with the opportunity to pick-up world ranking points? Jordan Speith gets picked every year(as a member of the Jupiter boys clubs) to go and play Tigers hit and giggle, he finishes last everytime by a mile yet picks up world ranking points. Please guys, don’t get me started on Matt Fitzpatricks picking up points for playing a ‘tournament’ on 3 different courses over 3 days…he playing with his mum FFS!
If LIV wanted to they could easily tweak their format to please the OWGR.
I question whether there is sufficient push from the top of LIV to achieve that.
Maybe their thinking was to apply for OWGR in their current format and then tweak based on feedback.
The Phil Mickelsons of this world won't be bothered but there are plenty of LIV guys who absolutely would want to get into more majors.
It wouldn't make any difference, politics is being used to try to destroy LIV, and it's failed
Play 72 holes, open up to more than 54 players, add a cut. Then talk about rankings
OWGR has helped PGA to loose even more fans to LIV Golf. The PGA monopoly and bullying tactics are clear to see for everybody. You guys are entitled to your opinion as are the rest of golf followers. I for one don't watch any PGA events since LIV started...and together with the 4 majors and the few you tube golf channels I follow, I have enough golf to watch. Just something to think about...players in weak fields on DP tour gets points...so I guess you think all of them are also better than all the players in LIV...? The PGA just has this attitude that if you don't play with us, we will make sure you can't play with anybody else...in my eyes typical American arrogance! And on that point...can you imagine what a shitshow the Presidents Cup will be with the best South African and Australian players in LIV...who will even watch that?
Having a cut has been proved nul and void with the PGA Tour having no cut events.
The Sentry, Zozo, WGC, CJ Cup are all limited fields with no cuts and ranking points.
It's the OWGR role to rank players, that is their job.
There are Tours that have 54 hole events.
Simply put, reduced points, the bottom half get nothing, equivalent of a cut.
Golf used to be played that way with no cut, just a cut off on the prize money, things change, the world evolves.
The current way of doing things was not always the way.
Jacob, players leave Europe to play the PGA Tour for the $, not the legacy
Sports fan's i general like a competition that is an intense atmosphere. Liv promotes that it is fun for the players. Did Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Larry Bird or Bryce Harper care if the event they are playing is fun for the competitors? Nope , we care that everyone competing is pushed to their maximum mental and physical limits.
Liv's premise is bogus and any fan knows it. It is what you get at a muni tournament.
@@Gnofg not even close to a Muni Tournament. Having attended one myself, the players are still playing to win and you can see that when they play, the fun is the added extras.
Watching them grinding on the range and putting green after the final round is over and the frustration after a bad day shows they still want to win each event.
Outside the ropes, it is a great spectacle for the fans.
The best part of it is Yanks getting butthurt over their PGA Tour being compromised when LIV rolled out, Yanks think they own the game, if anyone does, Scotland does.
@@DocGolf How about Parrish punching Lambeer in the face Are the competitors having fun?
ruclips.net/video/_ow29Ea9hCQ/видео.html
or Dick Butkus who is considered either the greatest linebacker ever or number two.
ruclips.net/video/aEbmNOH7EOw/видео.html
Come on Peter you know you want to play golf all year long….and not in the rain.👍🏼👍🏼
It's just golf, watch what you like.
Interesting points on liv players having to have qualifying and have a way in etc .... Then congrats to Lexi on playing, yeah i know ... wildcard .. still didn't qualify, just a straight free pass. Ohh but that is 'good for golf'
I just feel the owgr system should be easy here, 3 rounds not 4 = 3/4 of the points. smaller fields with lower ranked players = smaller overall points. Just those 2 things would mean the points are so much lower and really stop liv officials / players complaining as they're getting 'points' but still leave them in limbo with the points being virtually useless. Seems so easy to shut people up if they wanted to.
Now i love liv so think this idea would suck ... but it seems so easy to silence them. Just americans being americans .... "it's ours, we want to keep it and control it"
-40 C = -40 F
-40C =-40F
So, should Tiger's event get points? 16 players, selected by Tiger, no cut. They get points because Tiger wants them to have points. There are not hundreds of tours that comply ... it's 24. It's usually a good idea to check your facts before spouting off. The technical points are garbage and have been refuted by many. It's all politics. The Official Worst Golf Ranking is now irrelevant.
Lots of professional golfers (all of them) know that a poor field in the US gets more points than a strong field in the DPW Tour. Remember Jon Rahm's press conference? He might be the first to say it out loud but they're all thinking it. You guys are European. You should be defending your tour.
The monopoly is the OWGR occupying the same address at Wentworth Drive; USPGAT owning 40% of DPW Tour.
No point pretending like you don't know what Phil is talking about.
LIV would get a deeper field and possibly be able to introduce a cut later on if they were given OWGR points because more players would go there knowing they’re getting points. LIV also has the international feeder tour that the 4 players cut from the roster get replaced with. Again, OWGR is a joke
Some very uninformed takes here, you guys really need to do proper research beforehand, the 54 holes and 'no cuts' thing is a non issue as stated by OWGR's response, it is the qualification 'closed shop' process and Captain's immunity from relegation that are the main issues, a formula for giving OWGR points can be made for everything else including the team play. Basically LIV's current qualification and relegation process is the technical reason it got rejected. Phil Mickelson has also been right about everything so far regarding the PGAT and LIV, so his twitter response will most likely age well.....
Jakob nailed it. When the players went too Liv they did it fore the money and playing less tournaments as they say.
Could the Livplayers go and qualify fore majors?
They can enter qualifying for the open and the US open but the masters is an invitational and not sure how you qualify for the PGA but think it’s ranking based.
people moaning about liv are just daft. things in life progress and get better, people are stubborn and dont like change. like var in football, we evolve and so does golf. get over it.
As long as LIV is invite only and it's the same people playing over and over, how can you justly give World ranking points?! I'm not a fan of LIV, but I'm also very much not a fan of the ones who run the PGA Tour(and other big tours). It's Saudi money vs. OLD money. One side is greedy AF and the other dont give 2 shits about money, but want to buy entertainment, no matter how it fits in with the rest of the sport.
Agree and should maybe be less of a fan with PGA since they promoted political message to convince many of their players to pass on LIV offers, then cave when they were offered the $$$
I could care less what the DIE tour does I’ll never watch them 👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼
Why are we hurting people for wanting work less and make more? I promise they’re just as competitive as any PGAT event outside of the majors and maybe a couple other events. Hero’s gets world points, how bout the 54-hole Mexican tour getting approved at the same time LIV was denied? Rahm said it best. The OWGR is LAUGHABLE
Is it just me or has keiran turned into Karl pilkington?