@@helenrose5383 they won’t fuck their sister but will take yours kill you and the rest of your family off and erase your name from history so noble and with the right of first night they get pick of all the women and you have no say honestly I feel sorry for Jon when he realizes both sides are trash fire and ice
These theories are very cool. Just like the one that Brandon the Builder was actually 20 different guys and such. But i prefer the idea of him walking around each region offering to build castles left right and center. The entire timeline is confusing and i like it this way. not all questions need answering. Another great vid, btw, though no greek easter egg.
Very interesting theory! Disagree with a few minor timeline points - my gut tells me Andal houses like the Tully’s, etc. came far later in more recent invasions. Part of me wonders if there weren’t multiple “Long Nights”… doubt it, but it’s an interesting thought. On another note, I wonder if the initial Andal invasions had anything to do with the Great Empire of the Dawn and the Church of Starry Wisdom.
I am of the belief that all dates are correct as long as the Andal invasion goes. I have these theories kind of here in there in 3 videos, but pretty much Andals came in three waves and not in one. 1. Dream of Hugor (6000) 2. Valyrian Expansion (4000) 3. The Qarlon Mess (2000) I want to put them in a video all together at some point. Glad you like the video! BTW Tullys are First Men, but yes many Andal Houses came after too.
I just found your channel yesterday so I decided to check it out and I’m glad I did. I disagree with some of your assertions here but I always love to see someone try to get something new out of the text. One thing I will point out is that when looking through any sort of History Texts (World and Fire and Blood) you have to remember that it comes from an In-World POV not a Real World POV. Basically that boils down to the Andals POV and quite frankly I don’t trust any info they give to be correct. They brought Round Tower Architecture to Westeros yet Storm’s End (which is clearly built before any Andals showed up) exists. They say the Ancient Andals flourished in Andalos for Millennia in one paragraph only to contradict themselves by saying Centuries in the next Paragraph. They gloss over the fact that they most likely took Oldtown in a bloody Coup from the Hightowers. Definitely don’t trust anything in any of the “history” texts from the ASOIAF world when Theorycrafting…
I think that this video is one of the few (I hope they are not many lol) that doesn't sound as solid if you haven't seen my Andal Invasion one, but I realized it after it was already uploaded 😂😭. In general, I try my videos to not be very connected to each other, but this one makes much more sense if someone is familiar with the one about the Andals, bc I didn't analyze the whole timeline again and what I think looks like. In the video about the Andals, I tried to analyze the timeline as much as I could, I obviously do not take everything as solid evidence, since of course, the maesters have limited info as well as biases. The most convincing thing about the Starks being a much younger house is the fact that apparently, the Long Night happened closer to 5000 years ago according to Martin, not the maesters, and the fact that the stories we get about the first Andals, suggest that they didn't come bc of the Valyrians, as maesters say. Glad you are enjoying the content though!
χαίρε! Yes, GRRM is terrible with numbers, like the size of the Wall, money, distances, but time is something pretty straightforward, so it seems sussy that he would be so "wrong" with his own dates. Are fake numbers real, or are they meant to distract/divert, or even be symbolic in some way? "A thousand years is as a day unto the Lord." That sort of thing. See you in the streams. Cheers & Tschuss!
Happy you're delving into the Starks and Northern houses. Would love to see the thread of magical blood gathering because I wonder if there is a mirror motive there with the Valyrians/ Asshai. I think the Northerners have forgotten who they are and there could be tie in to Golden Dawn, or one of the disappeared peoples of Essos Plains or something. Anyway, should be fun.
it'd be awsome if you dig deeper into starks because I also believe that there are many things that don't add up. One, i saw a post on westeros about why was there a distintion beetwen the kings of winter and the north. Some pointed it may have to do with direwolves. Others said that before, everyone was a king in the north, the starks, the boltons, the wargs( as you pointed, blackwoods), and the many more kingdoms of probably the time of the thousand kingdoms. Also, there's a video (i dont remember the channel,i'll look it) about Sansa becoming the queen of winter, because thats the entire point of winterfell, protecting from weather. During both show and the books Sansa and Jon are the only ones thinking about winter, because even if they survive the long night, winter is still coming as far a we know. And the concept also alings with an Cat observation in the first book. In summer it was a big castle but in winter, Winterfell kind of came to live because of so many people taking refuge. Is one of the few stops in the north in the kings road, it has the heat thing, the winter gardens and unlike other castles in the north it can actually host a bunch of people. What if winterfell is just because is a safe haven from cold climate? Also the starks clearly always had magic before the blackwoods, and unlike targs they can actually mixed with other people and keep it. Maybe it has to do with WF hearrtree? I also think they are not originally from the north espacially if they descend from garth the greenhand. Yes, the andals number don't make sense, there's a bunch of theories about that. The bigger is that they cause th long night, not the first men. Your point about being a company of men instead of just one hero, adds into why there are so many "versions" of azor ahai, like form sarnor, yiti, westeros, etc. Maybe each one send a man to fight. and mostly, great job in general, we need more women here or men just fixate on Dany's stuff
Glad you enjoyed the video! I have in mind a video about the Starks and Winterfell and the crypts specifically, but I delay it all the time, bc I always find out mpste stuff and titbits I hadn't noticed before. But at some point, I will. As for the Andals, I will also upload I full video, but I want to say that I'm not sure they caused the long night on their own, but they were involved and did damage, that is certain. But solely causing the LN I don't know, since if we look at the current timeline we cannot pinpoint exactly why it happened, and in every place, they have a different cause. Were they involved, I personally think yes, were they the only reason, not the case I think. Thanks for watching!
This is definitely a plausible theory, the only thing that could be against it is the timeline of the valyrian empire. Since the long night seems to be related to the great empire of the dawn and it's said they existed way before valyria, but at the same time it's said that valyrians are descended (at least culturaly) from that empire. So it could be that the ones who drove away the andals were actually a branch of another empire that they later correlated to the valyrian empire?
Ι think that most events took place quite close to each other, like in the current timeline. Others, dragons, Euron, and not only started to happen very close to each other. If tGEotD was at each peak before the long night, around 12000-6000 and the long night, as well as the first Andal invasion, happened around 6000 years ago (like some in-universe sources suggest, 6000 is closer to 5k and not to 10k as GRRM said, so it seems like a plausible date) then there are around 1000 years for the Valyrians to start the Empire, between the long night and Valyria to start to be a threat and have power. As for the Andals, I think all three dates are correct (6k, 4k, & 2k) because there are events in all these eras that easily could trigger migrations.
For sure some of them did lived more (like Mel does now), but still, we are not talking about hundreds of years, but thousands. Storm's End from the myths surrounding it was built during the time when the Hammer of the Waters occurred, and Winterfell was built after the Long Night. Do all these people lived for 4000 yrs? Idk, something sounds off to me.
Outstanding 👍👍 I have often wondered regarding time line, that the population had not progressed beyond the iron age in over 8k years is terrible, I wonder if all the houses have revisionist history as you have shown light on the starks suspect origin story 🤪
There's another youtuber that has a similar theory on the Long Night occurring during the Andal invasion, putting the blame for it on the Andals and them retconing their history through the septons.
Yeah, this theory is circulating around the fandom for years, even though I am of the belief that all three possible dates are correct and the waves were three, for different reasons. About the Long Night, they were for sure partly responsible, but again I think other stuff played a role too for sure, either way, it seems like they were most likely in Westeros and they try to weasel out of this mess, thus why I am fairly sure early on they were too using magic, considering they had freaking visions about Westeros and in Essos they did sacrifices just fine.
I think its completely reasonable to think that one wave of andals came before the long night. I dont remember if you already did it or no, but a more detailed video on the events surrounding all (your hypothezised) three andal invasions would be cool. As a person with a great deal of interest in history and anthropology i always thought the ages are too long and show not enough change, but that is just a part of the world-building that one often has to accept in fantasy. I must say a prequel story of the early stark kings battling various magical foes sounds fantastic.
I was thinking too, to put down all the Andal waves arrivals, bc as you said having more than one Andal wave sounds very logical and plausible and explains some inconsistencies in the timeline too.
But the maesters knew the andals invaded before the long night, and that house stark was founded after the long night. Dosent that mean everyone in westeros knows this?
@@CompanyOfTheCat Μιας και έχεις πιάσει τα μυστήρια στο παρελθόν του Westeros τσέκαρε τη θεωρία του Preston Jacobs ότι το GoT είναι μετα-αποκαλυπτικό και μεταμφιεσμένο sci-fi. Αρκετά στοιχεία γύρω από το Long Night, τη Βαλύρια, τις γενετικές μεταλλάξεις που δίνουν περίεργες ικανότητες και άλλα βγάζουν αρκετό νόημα έτσι. Τελευταία που ανακάλυψα τις ομοιότητες που έχει το GoT με το Dune έχω αρχίσει να πιστεύω σοβαρά ότι θα έχουμε κάποιο plot twist σε στυλ Πλανήτη των Πιθήκων σε κάποιο σημείο στο μέλλον. (Αν τελειώσει ο χοντρός ποτέ την ιστορία, κάτι για το οποίο αμφιβάλω.)
Yeaah, την θεωρια του Πρεστον την ξερω απο οταν την εβγαζε και γενικα το οτι ειναι sci-fi κυκλοφορει χρονια σα θεωρια, γτι εχει πολυ κοσμικ χορορ τυπου Λοβκραφτ και γιατι ο Μαρτιν ηταν κυριως συγκραφεας sci-fi. Τα ASOIAF εχουν πολλα ρεφρενσιζ στα προηγουμενα του βιβλια που ηταν sci-fi, ναι, και σε αλλα προτζεκτς που δεν ειναι φαντασι, αλλα εχουν αλλα τοσα ρεφρενσιζ σε φαντασι βιβλια και κομιξ οπως τα Sword and sorcery, το Black Knight, Άρχοντας κλπ κλπ. Γενικα δε την παω πολυ σα θεωρια, not gonna lie, κυριως γτι, ποιος ο λογος ο Μαρτιν να μας λεει ψεματα? Το αποκαλει ολη την ωρα High Fantasy και εχει πει κι αυτο σε μια συνεντευξη σε καποια φαση: I have people constantly writing me with science fiction theories about the seasons - "It's a double star system with a black dwarf and that would explain-" It's fantasy, man, it's magic.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Το sci-fi μπορεί να χρησιμοποιηθεί σαν origin για high fantasy. Το Warhammer Fantasy είναι έτσι (οι Old Ones έκαναν terrαforming τον κόσμο του Warhammer και η έλευση του Χάους στον κόσμο ήταν βασικά ένα τεράστιο πυρηνικό δυστύχημα). Το Bastard!, anime σε κόσμο φαντασίας είναι επίσης μετα-αποκαλυπτικό. Ο κόσμος φαντασίας είναι το αποτέλεσμα μιας τεράστιας καταστροφής στον σύγχρονο κόσμο. Δεν το βλέπω σαν ψέμα. Το sci-fi είναι ένας τρόπος να καταλάβουμε τα mechanics των φανταστικών στοιχείων στον κόσμο του Μάρτιν χωρίς οι χαρακτήρες εντός του κόσμου να καταλαβαίνουν τι συμβαίνει ακριβώς. Γενικά μου αρέσει σαν θεωρεία. Το αν θα ισχύει τελικά ή όχι εξαρτάται από το Χοντρό φυσικά. Πάντως το ASOIAF δεν θα ήταν η μόνη μεταμφιεσμένη σειρά. Για παράδειγμα το Attack on Titan είναι mecha.
Το ξέρω αλλά στιλλ. Έχει στοιχειά sci-fi, αλλά οι θεωρίες αυτές προσωπικά μου φαινοντα απίστευτα out there. Είναι άλλο το "Η μαγεία είναι μέρος του σύμπαντος όποτε έχει φυσικούς νομούς και το διάστημα είναι μέρος του σύμπαντος και της φύσης κλπ κλπ" και άλλο το πως ορισμένα πράγματα παρουσιάζονται στις θεωρίες αυτές, ορισμένες είναι σε φάση "Το φεγγάρι είναι διαστημόπλοιο και η Μπριεν είναι παιδί του Κθουλου". Προσωπικά αυτά μου φανονται καμπ και αστεία σα θεωρίες, περνάω πολύ καλά όταν τις ακούω😂, δε θεωρώ ότι είναι αυτό το νόημα της σειράς. But to each their own γενικά, όλοι θεωρίες λέμε τπτ δεν είναι σίγουρο, υπάρχουν τόσες, κάποιες είναι μέσα κάποιες όχι. Είμαι μεγάλη φαν των sci-fi του Μάρτιν πέρα από τα ASOIAF και κατά τη γνώμη μου, σπάνια κάνει κωλοτούμπες και τουιστς τόσο συχνά, όσο θεωρούν κάποιοι και αν κάνει δεν είναι τόσο αργά μέσα στην ιστορία. Είμαστε στο 5ο βιβλίο και πέρα από το ότι τα ουράνια σώματα και το Πλανετος το ίδιο (που είναι ουράνιο σώμα καθώς είναι πλανήτης) έχουν ματζικαλ παουερ ή υπάρχει κάτι στο core τους που έχει ματζικαλ παουερ, και γενικά η μαγεία είναι φυσική δύναμη, υπάρχει σε αυτό το σύμπαν κι έχει νομούς, δεν έχουμε ιδιαίτερα στοιχειά ώστε να γυρίσει σε κάτι τέτοιο, ειδικά στα τελευταία 2 βιβλία. Για εμένα το πιο τρανταχτό παράδειγμα που κάποιος θα το έλεγε πιο κοντά σε επιστημονική φαντασία αν και δεν είναι αυστηρά sci-fi trope, είναι ότι το skinchanging είναι astral projection ουσιαστικά, αλλά κι αυτό είναι θεωρία μου, δε μπορώ να πω ότι είμαι σίγουρη. Βάζει ένα flare sci-fi, κάτι με το οποίο είναι πολύ γνώριμος ο Μάρτιν και κρατάει τη σειρά φαντασι, χωρίς να χρειάζεται να κάνει το μεγαλύτερο εξποζισιον και εξπλενεισον εβερ μέσα σε 2 βιβλία μόνο, κάτι που από πλευράς ρυθμού και τρόπου αφήγησης είναι παραπάνω από δύσκολο, και υπάρχει τεράστια πιθανότητα να βγει προβληματικό. Αλλά ξανά είναι όλα θεωρίες και ο καθένας όπως το βλέπει γενικά.
You are on fire, you are definitely the best new ASOIF channel.
I know right? She is touching on stuff that even with so many channels and theories in the fandom, are not discussed.
I really like these timeline videos and you also uploaded on my lunch break. Cheers!
Great video as per usual, and you also perfected the audio as well. Keep it up, the sky's the limit (beware the flying lizards)
Ned Stark really made the starks look heroes when their just like everyone else
Exactly!
@@helenrose5383 they won’t fuck their sister but will take yours kill you and the rest of your family off and erase your name from history so noble and with the right of first night they get pick of all the women and you have no say honestly I feel sorry for Jon when he realizes both sides are trash fire and ice
These theories are very cool. Just like the one that Brandon the Builder was actually 20 different guys and such. But i prefer the idea of him walking around each region offering to build castles left right and center. The entire timeline is confusing and i like it this way. not all questions need answering.
Another great vid, btw, though no greek easter egg.
The mental image is truly hilarious.
Brandon the Builder: "You get a castle and you get a castle! Everybody gets a castle!"👏
But, but howwwww? There are thousands of years between these buildings? 😂
(I will upload a video in Greek just for you!)
Very interesting theory! Disagree with a few minor timeline points - my gut tells me Andal houses like the Tully’s, etc. came far later in more recent invasions. Part of me wonders if there weren’t multiple “Long Nights”… doubt it, but it’s an interesting thought.
On another note, I wonder if the initial Andal invasions had anything to do with the Great Empire of the Dawn and the Church of Starry Wisdom.
I am of the belief that all dates are correct as long as the Andal invasion goes. I have these theories kind of here in there in 3 videos, but pretty much Andals came in three waves and not in one.
1. Dream of Hugor (6000)
2. Valyrian Expansion (4000)
3. The Qarlon Mess (2000)
I want to put them in a video all together at some point.
Glad you like the video!
BTW Tullys are First Men, but yes many Andal Houses came after too.
I just found your channel yesterday so I decided to check it out and I’m glad I did. I disagree with some of your assertions here but I always love to see someone try to get something new out of the text. One thing I will point out is that when looking through any sort of History Texts (World and Fire and Blood) you have to remember that it comes from an In-World POV not a Real World POV. Basically that boils down to the Andals POV and quite frankly I don’t trust any info they give to be correct. They brought Round Tower Architecture to Westeros yet Storm’s End (which is clearly built before any Andals showed up) exists. They say the Ancient Andals flourished in Andalos for Millennia in one paragraph only to contradict themselves by saying Centuries in the next Paragraph. They gloss over the fact that they most likely took Oldtown in a bloody Coup from the Hightowers. Definitely don’t trust anything in any of the “history” texts from the ASOIAF world when Theorycrafting…
I think that this video is one of the few (I hope they are not many lol) that doesn't sound as solid if you haven't seen my Andal Invasion one, but I realized it after it was already uploaded 😂😭. In general, I try my videos to not be very connected to each other, but this one makes much more sense if someone is familiar with the one about the Andals, bc I didn't analyze the whole timeline again and what I think looks like.
In the video about the Andals, I tried to analyze the timeline as much as I could, I obviously do not take everything as solid evidence, since of course, the maesters have limited info as well as biases. The most convincing thing about the Starks being a much younger house is the fact that apparently, the Long Night happened closer to 5000 years ago according to Martin, not the maesters, and the fact that the stories we get about the first Andals, suggest that they didn't come bc of the Valyrians, as maesters say.
Glad you are enjoying the content though!
χαίρε! Yes, GRRM is terrible with numbers, like the size of the Wall, money, distances, but time is something pretty straightforward, so it seems sussy that he would be so "wrong" with his own dates. Are fake numbers real, or are they meant to distract/divert, or even be symbolic in some way? "A thousand years is as a day unto the Lord." That sort of thing. See you in the streams. Cheers & Tschuss!
Happy you're delving into the Starks and Northern houses. Would love to see the thread of magical blood gathering because I wonder if there is a mirror motive there with the Valyrians/ Asshai. I think the Northerners have forgotten who they are and there could be tie in to Golden Dawn, or one of the disappeared peoples of Essos Plains or something. Anyway, should be fun.
it'd be awsome if you dig deeper into starks because I also believe that there are many things that don't add up.
One, i saw a post on westeros about why was there a distintion beetwen the kings of winter and the north. Some pointed it may have to do with direwolves. Others said that before, everyone was a king in the north, the starks, the boltons, the wargs( as you pointed, blackwoods), and the many more kingdoms of probably the time of the thousand kingdoms.
Also, there's a video (i dont remember the channel,i'll look it) about Sansa becoming the queen of winter, because thats the entire point of winterfell, protecting from weather. During both show and the books Sansa and Jon are the only ones thinking about winter, because even if they survive the long night, winter is still coming as far a we know. And the concept also alings with an Cat observation in the first book. In summer it was a big castle but in winter, Winterfell kind of came to live because of so many people taking refuge. Is one of the few stops in the north in the kings road, it has the heat thing, the winter gardens and unlike other castles in the north it can actually host a bunch of people. What if winterfell is just because is a safe haven from cold climate?
Also the starks clearly always had magic before the blackwoods, and unlike targs they can actually mixed with other people and keep it. Maybe it has to do with WF hearrtree? I also think they are not originally from the north espacially if they descend from garth the greenhand.
Yes, the andals number don't make sense, there's a bunch of theories about that. The bigger is that they cause th long night, not the first men.
Your point about being a company of men instead of just one hero, adds into why there are so many "versions" of azor ahai, like form sarnor, yiti, westeros, etc. Maybe each one send a man to fight.
and mostly, great job in general, we need more women here or men just fixate on Dany's stuff
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I have in mind a video about the Starks and Winterfell and the crypts specifically, but I delay it all the time, bc I always find out mpste stuff and titbits I hadn't noticed before. But at some point, I will. As for the Andals, I will also upload I full video, but I want to say that I'm not sure they caused the long night on their own, but they were involved and did damage, that is certain. But solely causing the LN I don't know, since if we look at the current timeline we cannot pinpoint exactly why it happened, and in every place, they have a different cause. Were they involved, I personally think yes, were they the only reason, not the case I think.
Thanks for watching!
Love your stuff
This is definitely a plausible theory, the only thing that could be against it is the timeline of the valyrian empire. Since the long night seems to be related to the great empire of the dawn and it's said they existed way before valyria, but at the same time it's said that valyrians are descended (at least culturaly) from that empire.
So it could be that the ones who drove away the andals were actually a branch of another empire that they later correlated to the valyrian empire?
Ι think that most events took place quite close to each other, like in the current timeline. Others, dragons, Euron, and not only started to happen very close to each other.
If tGEotD was at each peak before the long night, around 12000-6000 and the long night, as well as the first Andal invasion, happened around 6000 years ago (like some in-universe sources suggest, 6000 is closer to 5k and not to 10k as GRRM said, so it seems like a plausible date) then there are around 1000 years for the Valyrians to start the Empire, between the long night and Valyria to start to be a threat and have power.
As for the Andals, I think all three dates are correct (6k, 4k, & 2k) because there are events in all these eras that easily could trigger migrations.
Still laughing at your "red, hot, spicy and alcoholic" joke from the Roose video xD
❤
If people lived for hundreds of years like the legends say then bran definitely couldve helped with storms end and even the hightower
For sure some of them did lived more (like Mel does now), but still, we are not talking about hundreds of years, but thousands. Storm's End from the myths surrounding it was built during the time when the Hammer of the Waters occurred, and Winterfell was built after the Long Night. Do all these people lived for 4000 yrs? Idk, something sounds off to me.
@@CompanyOfTheCat magic🤷🏽♂️
Outstanding 👍👍 I have often wondered regarding time line, that the population had not progressed beyond the iron age in over 8k years is terrible, I wonder if all the houses have revisionist history as you have shown light on the starks suspect origin story 🤪
There's another youtuber that has a similar theory on the Long Night occurring during the Andal invasion, putting the blame for it on the Andals and them retconing their history through the septons.
Yeah, this theory is circulating around the fandom for years, even though I am of the belief that all three possible dates are correct and the waves were three, for different reasons.
About the Long Night, they were for sure partly responsible, but again I think other stuff played a role too for sure, either way, it seems like they were most likely in Westeros and they try to weasel out of this mess, thus why I am fairly sure early on they were too using magic, considering they had freaking visions about Westeros and in Essos they did sacrifices just fine.
Order of the Green Hand.
Algormancy!
I think its completely reasonable to think that one wave of andals came before the long night. I dont remember if you already did it or no, but a more detailed video on the events surrounding all (your hypothezised) three andal invasions would be cool.
As a person with a great deal of interest in history and anthropology i always thought the ages are too long and show not enough change, but that is just a part of the world-building that one often has to accept in fantasy.
I must say a prequel story of the early stark kings battling various magical foes sounds fantastic.
I was thinking too, to put down all the Andal waves arrivals, bc as you said having more than one Andal wave sounds very logical and plausible and explains some inconsistencies in the timeline too.
But the maesters knew the andals invaded before the long night, and that house stark was founded after the long night. Dosent that mean everyone in westeros knows this?
Great
🥰
Are you Spanish?
Greek
@@CompanyOfTheCat afganisto
Όταν βάζεις τυχαίο βίντεο για Game of Thrones και σε χτυπάει η Ελληνική προφόρα 😆.
Γααααμωτη😂 Λετζιτ, τα τελευταια 3 βινδεα τα εχουν δει αριακα περισσοτεροι Ελληνες απο οτι ολα τα προηγουμενα μαζι
@@CompanyOfTheCat Μιας και έχεις πιάσει τα μυστήρια στο παρελθόν του Westeros τσέκαρε τη θεωρία του Preston Jacobs ότι το GoT είναι μετα-αποκαλυπτικό και μεταμφιεσμένο sci-fi. Αρκετά στοιχεία γύρω από το Long Night, τη Βαλύρια, τις γενετικές μεταλλάξεις που δίνουν περίεργες ικανότητες και άλλα βγάζουν αρκετό νόημα έτσι. Τελευταία που ανακάλυψα τις ομοιότητες που έχει το GoT με το Dune έχω αρχίσει να πιστεύω σοβαρά ότι θα έχουμε κάποιο plot twist σε στυλ Πλανήτη των Πιθήκων σε κάποιο σημείο στο μέλλον. (Αν τελειώσει ο χοντρός ποτέ την ιστορία, κάτι για το οποίο αμφιβάλω.)
Yeaah, την θεωρια του Πρεστον την ξερω απο οταν την εβγαζε και γενικα το οτι ειναι sci-fi κυκλοφορει χρονια σα θεωρια, γτι εχει πολυ κοσμικ χορορ τυπου Λοβκραφτ και γιατι ο Μαρτιν ηταν κυριως συγκραφεας sci-fi. Τα ASOIAF εχουν πολλα ρεφρενσιζ στα προηγουμενα του βιβλια που ηταν sci-fi, ναι, και σε αλλα προτζεκτς που δεν ειναι φαντασι, αλλα εχουν αλλα τοσα ρεφρενσιζ σε φαντασι βιβλια και κομιξ οπως τα Sword and sorcery, το Black Knight, Άρχοντας κλπ κλπ.
Γενικα δε την παω πολυ σα θεωρια, not gonna lie, κυριως γτι, ποιος ο λογος ο Μαρτιν να μας λεει ψεματα? Το αποκαλει ολη την ωρα High Fantasy και εχει πει κι αυτο σε μια συνεντευξη σε καποια φαση: I have people constantly writing me with science fiction theories about the seasons - "It's a double star system with a black dwarf and that would explain-" It's fantasy, man, it's magic.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Το sci-fi μπορεί να χρησιμοποιηθεί σαν origin για high fantasy. Το Warhammer Fantasy είναι έτσι (οι Old Ones έκαναν terrαforming τον κόσμο του Warhammer και η έλευση του Χάους στον κόσμο ήταν βασικά ένα τεράστιο πυρηνικό δυστύχημα). Το Bastard!, anime σε κόσμο φαντασίας είναι επίσης μετα-αποκαλυπτικό. Ο κόσμος φαντασίας είναι το αποτέλεσμα μιας τεράστιας καταστροφής στον σύγχρονο κόσμο. Δεν το βλέπω σαν ψέμα. Το sci-fi είναι ένας τρόπος να καταλάβουμε τα mechanics των φανταστικών στοιχείων στον κόσμο του Μάρτιν χωρίς οι χαρακτήρες εντός του κόσμου να καταλαβαίνουν τι συμβαίνει ακριβώς. Γενικά μου αρέσει σαν θεωρεία. Το αν θα ισχύει τελικά ή όχι εξαρτάται από το Χοντρό φυσικά. Πάντως το ASOIAF δεν θα ήταν η μόνη μεταμφιεσμένη σειρά. Για παράδειγμα το Attack on Titan είναι mecha.
Το ξέρω αλλά στιλλ.
Έχει στοιχειά sci-fi, αλλά οι θεωρίες αυτές προσωπικά μου φαινοντα απίστευτα out there. Είναι άλλο το "Η μαγεία είναι μέρος του σύμπαντος όποτε έχει φυσικούς νομούς και το διάστημα είναι μέρος του σύμπαντος και της φύσης κλπ κλπ" και άλλο το πως ορισμένα πράγματα παρουσιάζονται στις θεωρίες αυτές, ορισμένες είναι σε φάση "Το φεγγάρι είναι διαστημόπλοιο και η Μπριεν είναι παιδί του Κθουλου". Προσωπικά αυτά μου φανονται καμπ και αστεία σα θεωρίες, περνάω πολύ καλά όταν τις ακούω😂, δε θεωρώ ότι είναι αυτό το νόημα της σειράς. But to each their own γενικά, όλοι θεωρίες λέμε τπτ δεν είναι σίγουρο, υπάρχουν τόσες, κάποιες είναι μέσα κάποιες όχι.
Είμαι μεγάλη φαν των sci-fi του Μάρτιν πέρα από τα ASOIAF και κατά τη γνώμη μου, σπάνια κάνει κωλοτούμπες και τουιστς τόσο συχνά, όσο θεωρούν κάποιοι και αν κάνει δεν είναι τόσο αργά μέσα στην ιστορία. Είμαστε στο 5ο βιβλίο και πέρα από το ότι τα ουράνια σώματα και το Πλανετος το ίδιο (που είναι ουράνιο σώμα καθώς είναι πλανήτης) έχουν ματζικαλ παουερ ή υπάρχει κάτι στο core τους που έχει ματζικαλ παουερ, και γενικά η μαγεία είναι φυσική δύναμη, υπάρχει σε αυτό το σύμπαν κι έχει νομούς, δεν έχουμε ιδιαίτερα στοιχειά ώστε να γυρίσει σε κάτι τέτοιο, ειδικά στα τελευταία 2 βιβλία. Για εμένα το πιο τρανταχτό παράδειγμα που κάποιος θα το έλεγε πιο κοντά σε επιστημονική φαντασία αν και δεν είναι αυστηρά sci-fi trope, είναι ότι το skinchanging είναι astral projection ουσιαστικά, αλλά κι αυτό είναι θεωρία μου, δε μπορώ να πω ότι είμαι σίγουρη. Βάζει ένα flare sci-fi, κάτι με το οποίο είναι πολύ γνώριμος ο Μάρτιν και κρατάει τη σειρά φαντασι, χωρίς να χρειάζεται να κάνει το μεγαλύτερο εξποζισιον και εξπλενεισον εβερ μέσα σε 2 βιβλία μόνο, κάτι που από πλευράς ρυθμού και τρόπου αφήγησης είναι παραπάνω από δύσκολο, και υπάρχει τεράστια πιθανότητα να βγει προβληματικό.
Αλλά ξανά είναι όλα θεωρίες και ο καθένας όπως το βλέπει γενικά.