Free Floating 2 Barrels; And When Not To Free Float A Barrel
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2021
- I'm about to free float 2 barrels but I also need to talk about when not to free float the barrel of a rifle. The 1903a3 and FN Supreme have been bedded and we're ready to free float the barrels but I got a comment that reminded me that I need to mention not all rifles should be free floated. So we're going to discuss that as well.
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Wisdom from the lips of this man. I wish this guy spoke and I listened 13 years ago.
Another fine video Tom! Looking forward to the progress and like many of us that watch your channel, appreciate the time and effort you put into the videos.
Thank you very much for that Hank. I really do appreciate it. And we are making progress I got to the range this morning and both rifles were pretty impressive. It even surprised me at how well they shot. It's going to be about a week to get it edited and uploaded but I really can't wait to post this video. I had to check a couple of shots from both of them on the video to make sure some of the holes had more than one bullet in them.
I sure do enjoy all your videos. Keep up the good work
Thank you SS Earl.
I love how you take older rifles and bring major life back into them as beautiful hunting tools.
2 THUMBS-UP 👌 👍
Thanks Donald. That's the direction I'm trying to go in. And I think the 1903a3 and the FN are going to turn out really nice? I was able to get to the range this morning and the results even surprised me. I hope when this is over that a lot of younger people with have a new appreciation for older rifles? And I can say without question that a3 will flat leave most new rifles in the dust in the accuracy department. It took the FN a minute to settle in but once it did it was awfully impressive as well. Now I just need to shine these 2 beauties up a little bit.
Great video, I really enjoy your style. You brought some things to our attention that we all need to consider before "tearing into" one of our rifles. Thank You!
Thanks John, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Always fun to watch, and learn.
Thanks John, I do appreciate that.
joining in late but wanted to say thanks for the video. And you are correct that anything you do needs to be carefully considered and what you do needs to be quality workmanship. The valuation issue is a hurdle for some people, it comes down to are you investing for return in your guns or are you interested in extracting best performance. I do not advocate major alterations but mass produced arms can be significantly improved performance wise with almost invisible tinkering. With regard to action bedding, a skillful, tasteful bedding job will leave minimal evidence, just a little bedding compound where it is not seen. Barrel bedding is a mixed bag opinion wise, it can be done without being visible. However with barrel bedding I tend to prefer a bit of fore end tension on the barrel. Yes it could affect point of impact consistency, for a multitude of reasons, of which moving stock wood is the chief cause. But I firmly believe that barrel vibrations are usefully dampened with barrel contact to the stock. A shooter needs to be aware of how they hold the rifle for every shot, especially with any intended contact of the barrel to the stock, consistency every time is the name of the game otherwise point of impact will rove all over the place.Great candidates for accurizing work are mass produced guns of modern genera, they are often in need to have fine detail tuning and they are not investment grade guns.
Great information. Great advice..
Glad you think so!
Great work on the rifles. Looking forward to the range trip, for the comparison. Good advice on modification of classic firearms. There's plenty of project guns to buy on the cheap, without destroying the value of an unmolested original.
Thanks. I have to admit they are starting to turn out pretty nice. And I got the range trip in this morning. I had to find out, and we'll just say the results even surprised me. It will be about a week before I get it edited and posted but it's going to be a good one.
Looking forward to the next one 👍
I got to the range this morning. It's going to be about a week to get it edited and posted but I think it will be worth the wait? Spoiler alert, I couldn't believe how well the 1903a3 shot. And the FN showed some serious potential as well.
Nice work on these rifles, can't wait to see how they shoot!
Thanks Alan, and all I can say is it's going to be worth the wait. I went to the range this morning and I still have a big smile on my face from that trip. It will take me about a week to get it edited and posted but I think it's going to be pretty good?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving can't wait!!
Nice video! Good work! Looking forward to the next video. Both the rifles shot pretty good before, and they may do a bit better now. Very nice old rifles.
Kent, I went to the range this morning and I have to say I was shocked by both of them. I was thinking the exact same as you. I figured I would see a little improvement especially out of the FN but that's not what I saw. That 1903a3 was driving tacks and after the FN settled in it was pretty impressive as well. I'm still shaking my head wondering what happened. I didn't think the bore on the a3 would even be capable of shooting like that. I don't know if I just got lucky or if those older rifles have a lot more potential than we give them credit for with bedding, free floating, and quality ammo?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Reading about some of the scores that were shot at Camp Perry back in the 1920's some of those Springfields were amazing, even with open sights, and at long ranges. Glad they're doing well for you.
A lot of times people will make significant alterations to a rifle to try and get it to shoot sub-moa, and in the process destroy a good shooting rifle. And even if the rifle is a thoroughbred sub-moa firearm it does not mean that the person who is behind the trigger will be able to shoot as well as the rifle can perform. For example, my main hunting rifle shoots sub 3/4 moa all day long with the ammo it is sighted in on. She also happens to be chambered in .338 Winchester Magnum, weighs about 9 pounds, and has no brake. So the trick in shooting her is being able to handle her recoil, and if one can't do that or if they allow it to get in their head then they aren't gonna get her sub 3/4 moa performance.
I am reminded of the article in an outdoor mag years ago. The author told about wanting a light rifle to hunt sheep so he had a custom build and chambered in 338 Win mag. Said everytime he fired it, he had to pick body parts up off the ground.. Your points are indeed valid. I stopped hunting years ago but have enjoyed long range precision with the long and precision a work in progress. Lol.
Love those Browning FN Barrel tapers.
Tom, that FN is gorgeous. A stock refinish will only make it better. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks East Texan. I'm confident that FN is going to turn out really nice just because it's already such a nice rifle. All I have to do with it is make sure I don't mess it up. But I'm struggling with the a3. I'm think about reshaping the stock on it, adding an ebony forend cap, and checkering? I can imagine it turning out really really nice. But I can also imagine me really messing it up. LOL That's the one that scares me.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving if it were me, I would go with a laminated stock from Boyd's. Man they have some beautiful wood. But only if I planned to keep it.
Great video Tom. Looks like you did some nice work on those rifles. Look forward to see the range footage after all that effort. With my rifle and shotgun collection, I haven't modified any of them mostly as they shoot well enough for me. I have seen beat rifles at gun shops that can be bought for little money and maybe fun as a challenge to restore and mess with bedding as you suggest for an old single shot .22. Restoring old woodworking tools has been a long hobby of mine and those I restore back to factory. But I did find an old, beat up Stanley #4 that I modified into a scrub plane as it was too far gone to be put back to factory anyway. Guns and tools are a fun hobby. Have a great weekend Tom.
Thanks Stephen. I got to the range this morning and I can say that work paid off in spades. It's going to be about a week before I get it posted but the results even surprised me. And I have to say, as you know well, that it's a great feeling to take an old tool be it a plane or a rifle and make it shine and work like it did when it was new. Which reminds I've got to get to work on that Winchester hand plane sometime soon. It's in need of some TLC.
Nice job Tom
Thanks 👍
I’m having trouble with one of my rifles and I’m trying to figure out free float or not to free float. I did the same as you with checking free float by squeezing the action tightly figured everything was Jim dandy until I torqued it down and found it was still not free floating. Lol.
Tom please do a video on pillow and glass bedding a Sako 75 and 85 thanks
Rugers have a piece at the end of the forend that places upward pressure on the barrel. About 7lbs actually, I have a late 70’s early 80’s savage 110 that also has the raised piece at the end of the forend for upward pressure. I’m thinking of floating the savage as I want to put pillars in for strength. Sometimes you can get better accuracy free floating but it’s very hard to reverse!! It’s a tricky decision as the rifle is definitely not inaccurate, but it was bought to fiddle with!!
That Savage sounds like a perfect candidate for bedding (or pillar bedding) and free floating? I bought a Remington 700 BDL around 2011 and it still had the pressure point in the stock even then. But bedding and free floating helped it out and took the groups from around 1.5" to .75".And like this, it was a fun project.
Sir I have a beautiful 700 BDL .243 made in 1990. I want to bed it just because wanna squeeze all I can out of it. The factory stock is built up right behind the front of stock and is contoured all the way down to receiver. When I glass the action how much torque should I put on action screws as to not stress the barrel. I may free float later but I assume I want no stress when bedding action. Thanks in advance.
That would drive my ocd crazy being not evenly spaced in the barrel channel. You should just full length bed the action and barrel all one shot. Mix the epoxy to match your stick color. It will fill that gap and its more inline with the times and how it would of actually been. Thats what old timers did to get accuracy. They didnt freefloat like we do today. they full length bedded everything and it worked great.
Wow! Sounds like it was raining lawnmowers out there. Definitely a day to be indoors.
Yes it was, but there are some days when the bottom really falls out that I have to wear ear plugs in the shop. It's amazing the noise rain can make on a tin roof.
I left my 700 in 30-06 in original condition I don't see a need to alter it when it's shooting well under sub MOA in the stock configuration sometimes original setup will out shoot modified rifles
Good thinking. My 700 in .270 shot better before I free floated it . I bedded the action and it helped a lot to get it shooting well again.
@@kwiturbitchin5277 glad to hear you got it shooting good again
I don't see any need to alter it either Abel. I would never touch a rifle that shoots under 1 MOA. I did bed and free float my 700 but only because I could never get it under 1.5", which wasn't bad but I've never seen a 700 that couldn't shoot under an inch so I knew the rifle had the potential and sure enough after bedding and free floating it was under 1". But I wouldn't have touched it if was already under 1 inch. I guess sometimes it's just luck of the draw, even with bedding and free floating?
@Kwit Urbitchin, that's why I made sure I bedded these before free floating. That pressure point gives the whole thing stability and without the pressure point you loose that stability unless you have solid anchor points in the stock. I'm glad you got your shooting good again.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving yes sir. Your bedding videos gave me the nerve to do it my self.
Free floating is a road to accuracy, but I'm not convinced that it is the only one.
Agreed. There's definitely a lot of different ways to get there.
Tom you could stain it a dark walnut and then seal it and it would show hardly at all.
Some people say you need 40,000 on each side clearance which is much more than a dollar bill or a business card. do not forget to seal the wood after sanding.
I have a heirloom .22 bolt action Winchester model 67 1934 with the none flush hold down bolt, and hand groves in the stock.
It's in awful condition, stock is old and damaged and the action of the gun is seized up. I've been tempted to try a refurbish it. I have plenty of wood working knowledge but no gunsmithing experience.
A buddy told me not to touch it, because I would ruin the value, from my understanding its only a 300 dollar gun in perfect condition, and worthless in its current condition.
Any thoughts on if I should leave it as is, try to restore it to original, or "restomod" it for actual use.
Clean it up and use it. Not worth anything in any shape. Worth something when its usable again.
Good video, now to see how they shoot lol...still trying to figure out how to get the font how I can see it lol...a little hard to see...no a lot hard to see lol
I've got a really good feeling they're going to be tack driver!
My 1943 Lee Enfield might be getting the same treatment.
I got to the range this morning and after what it did for the 1903a3 my Lee Enfield might be getting it as well? I was really surprised at the difference it made.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving you got me convinced to go ahead with the project. 👍🏼👍🏼
Looks like you’re pre64 model 70 shot really good with certain loads anyhow
Thanks Scott, it shot some of the smallest groups I've ever shot, if not the smallest. But I had a tough time getting it to do it consistently. And I caught myself second guessing myself a lot with it. I had to many great groups minus one flyer and I could never decide if it was from a bad shot or the rifle? And I'm still not sure but I would love to bed the action and free float the barrel and find out! But some mysteries just weren't meant to be solved.
Not all rifles will benefit from being free floated. Some manufacturers design pressure points in the stock to tune the barrel harmonics. In these cases the rifle will shoot worse when free floated. Some Weatherbys are like this.
I completely agree and I made sure I mentioned that this morning when I was wrapping up the video at the range. It's going to take me some time to get it edited and up loaded but spoiler alert it really helped these 2 rifles. But you're right in that it doesn't help them all. There are a lot things that affect harmonics and free floating and bedding are just one small part of the equation.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving yes they all have their own little personalities!
You're right about the thin barrels of the Weatherby Mark 5. I've been shooting Weatherby Mark V's for 50 years. I took out the pressure points and they shot like a shotgun.Thin barrels usually do need upward pressure to shoot well. Weatherby uses a lot of upward pressure with two pressure points, one at the back of the forend tip and at the end of the Forend tip.
Great videos Mr. Rivers . Keep the good work. Also, I’d like to hear from you about “Remington 700 5R” on 300 WM or 6.5 Creedmore If possible.
By the way I am making videos about off-roading product would you please take a look on it . ( Overland by Eric)
I'll check out your videos, and as for the 5R I have one in .308 that I mentioned in your other comment. It's a gen I and it's my most accurate rifle. I fired a 5 shot group with it once at 100 yards and my friend was watching through a sporting scope and kept saying I was missing the target after the first shot. He thought that because they were all in the same hole and I don't mean one large ragged hole. It was one bullet hole and the group measured zero. Great rifle and I'm sure it would be in 300win mag or 6.5 as well.
"When Not To Free Float A Barrel"
How about when you don't know how well the rifle groups because you haven't shot it for accuracy under proper conditions?
How about when the rifle shoots good groups with the stocking up it already has?
"If it isn't broken..."
Ouch! All really good points but I actually had a goal for the a3 and FN. I wanted to know just how good could an old rifle shoot if I applied all of the things I do to a modern rifle to get it to shoot it's best. Yes I could have waited for better conditions for the before but I'm confident the groups I got was very representative of what they were going to do? And that's why I pointed out in the range video that it wasn't a controlled experiment that I was doing. For that I would have had to do multiple groups in various conditions for both before and after and compared an average of the 2 and I would have needed to do it with multiple loads if I really wanted to make it interesting but I just didn't have the resources for that with time and ammo being the 2 biggest resources in short supply. With that said I think it was interesting experiment and I'm happy with my results.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving
Re-reading my comment, I certainly see how it looks to be criticism of you but in truth, I didn't mean it that way. My point was more of a, "Just how accurate does a rifle need to be?" The answer is complicated.
I have a few target rifles and my Rem. 700 in .22-250 with a heavy, 26 in. barrel, while not a target rifle per se, I use for long range coyote shooting on local farms and ranches. By long range, I mean out to 800 yards. For these rifles, I like to squeeze out every bit of accuracy I can get and if such a rifle won't consistently hold half minute of angle, it's of no value... as a target or long range varmint rifle. Needless to say, receivers are glass bedded and barrels are free floated. Triggers are professionally tuned and loads were worked up fastidiously. When I found that my .22-250 just loved the Sierra 52 gr. HPBT MatchKing bullet, I went out and bought 4000 of them, all of the same run. If I was concerned about pelt damage, I would choose a different bullet but all I wanted was utmost accuracy.
Then there's my Interarms Mark X (Mauser 98 knockoff action made in the old Yugoslavia) in .270 Win that has a British Whitworth barrel, a God only knows trigger and (I think) American walnut, all put together in (again, I believe) Alexandria Virginia. Despite my best efforts at load development, it never shot better than about one and a half MOA, usually more like two MOA. But the boiler room of a moose is about the size of a turkey platter and if you can't hit that at 70 to 200 yards, you have no business hunting. One of these days, I may get around to fiddling with the stocking up of that rifle but there always seems to be something more important to do.
@@stephenland9361 Your exactly right about a hunting rifle for large game not needing to be that accurate. And I said in the range video that we were essentially setting up target rifles at this point but I just wanted to know hoe accurate could they be? And I'm glad I tried the bedding and free floating because they were a lot more accurate than I would have ever guessed.
As for your Interarms/Whitworth, those are some fine rifles. If I'm not mistaken it's a Zastava action but the Whitworths were built and finished in England. The standard Interarms rifles, which are some great rifles to, were built and finished in Serbia? I always heard the Whitworth models had a better fit and finish, as a result and the feel of an English rifle.. My uncle's favorite rifle was an Interarms Mark X in .270, great rifle. Virginia was just the corporate headquarters.
It's Politically Incorrect too own, shoot and work on guns. I do it all the time!
Craig, I'm not sure that there's anything left that isn't politically incorrect these days? LOL
This is off topic but i think you missed your calling. WIth your calm voice I can see you doing audible children's books.