Sorry I used a generic description of a CVT to try and keep it simple and this isn’t the type fitted to this vehicle. In hindsight I should have explained it in more detail 😢 Thanks to those of you that pointed that out 🙏🏻 Have you experienced a CVT gearbox and what did you think ?
We have two Toyota hybrids one being a work corolla and the other being a Yaris . When I got the Corolla I thought the same as you , but now I don’t even notice the sound of the engine to be honest , it’s something you get used to
I’ve driven a petrol Toyota Auris with a conventional CVT and now own a hybrid Auris with the eCVT. In my opinion, they feel much the same and the technical differences don’t really matter. CVT suits a relaxed driving style but I can understand why a driving enthusiast wouldn’t like it.
17:30 I've driven a PriusV with CVT for 10 years now. I think your dissatisfaction is mostly a matter of perception. If you have driven a manual transmission, engine rev's and speed are linearly proportional. Increase the rev''s 50% and the speed increases 50%. My current motorcycle drives this way (as well as the last dozen I've had), so it is a very familiar sensation. Torque Converter transmissions allow a bit of "slip", rev's are mostly proportional to speed. Unless you have your foot to the floor, rev's increase with speed. CVT transmissions (yes, I know the T stands for Transmission) are different. The engine can very quickly speed up to the hp associated with the load without the car accelerating (much). So, the engine can put out 50, 100 or 150hp at almost any speed. The CVT then changes the gear ratio to accelerate the car. So, adjust the engine speed to match the load first and change the gear ratio to accelerate second. There is no "slipping clutch" or centrifugal clutch you remember from your mini-bike days. I come not to bury the quick revving engine, but to praise it!
I used to have a Lexus CT hybrid with an eCVT. It was very responsive, but it sounded horrible. It would've been an enjoyable car to drive if you're deaf...
We have an Audi SQ5 with a torque converter GB and we also have a new shape Yaris with the CVT GB. Two very different cars. You want to put your foot down a bit more in the Audi to appreciate the power but jump in the Yaris and you want to drive in a more relaxed style. I love both cars. For me personally when I'm in the Yaris I barely notice the CVT. I've just got used to driving steady and seeing 65-66 mpg (vs 35 in Audi). My opinion... CVT is fine if you drive in a laid back manner. It's what hybrids are all about (unless you're in a LaFerrari I suppose 😂)
In 60,000 miles in my 2019 RAV4 the noise really has not bothered me, ANY car when floored will make a lot of engine noise, the only difference with the CVT is its fairly steady note and not rising and falling note like a regular auto. Its overall volume is not intrusive IMHO and better than many non CVT cars I have had where as the revs get higher they sound pretty rough. The Toyota also has the advantage that the engine is held at its peak efficiency revs and the power delivery is seamless and continuous. Anyone considering the car do evaluate for yourself. If it were a real issue I wouldn't have another one on order!
This year or the next I will definitely buy the Rav4 Hybrid and I was kind of worry about the Noise I started noticing reviewers talk about. So thank you for your comment.
I just bought my Rav4 Prime a week ago. It's a great car. It does get a little noisy when the engine comes on though. But I drove a little over 700 miles and only used a quarter tank of gas! For most people, and you can check with a lot of other videos, the Rav4 is really fast. Remember, it does 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds and that's been tested by a number of youtube videos. You should also point out that there are very few cars that have the quality build like a Toyota or the resale value which was one of the reasons I bought it. There's absolutely no substitute for reliability. Although you stated that you didn't like the car for 30% based on the transmission, I would suspect that over 95% of the people who bought are happy with it, hence it being the most popular car in the U.S. next to the Ford F-150. Buyers shouldn't be expecting that the Rav4 to have the power of an old school V8 GTO, but 0-60 in less in 5.7 seconds is good enough for the large majority of people. And btw, a GTO is not going to get you 92 miles per gallon! try like 8 miles to the gallon! lol.
The Toyota RAV 4 is an International vehicle , enormously practicle , with excellent re sale value , standard of finish , serviceability and reliability . Your criticism is weak and unfounded , in a vehicle that does everything so well .
The e-cvt with planetary gear set makes the PHEV brilliantly efficient. The PHEV is almost as efficient as a HEV when running on petrol. Stick a traditional automatic and it becomes grotesquely less efficient.
The question is, how many times a day do you floor the accelerator? I almost never do that. And these gearboxes are economical and very reliable. And you can reduce the noise by switching up the paddle shifters on the steering wheel. A normal automatic gearbox will be quieter under heavy acceleration, but it is more expensive, heavier, less reliable and less economical.
Just test driven the car this evening. Thought the car was amazing and particularly in Ev mode and driving in a relaxing manner round town in hybrid. The issue you mention only occurred when you started accelerating quickly and when you drove out of town. This so called issue would not occur on the motorway cruising and in town driving when you would either be going go slowly or in EV mode. An exceedingly high proportion of journeys are less than 41 miles. I must admit I never heard it later in the evening when the kids had the music on which as a family car would be most of the time. For you as a petrol head I think it’s and issue but I think the majority of the buyers will not worry about this. For me I am waiting for the Lexus NX 450 PHEV. That will be my next car. Thanks for the honest review,
I think the E-CVT gearbox is truly the most briljant invention in car history. Yes, it takes some miles/time to get used to but it definitely grows on you. My brand new RAV4 Prime does 47 miles ev and then performs like a regular hybrid vehicle. Plug it in when you can and not when you want and you will have a smile on your face the whole day! You do need your own charger back home though to make it a true joy but if performance, comfort, handling and looks matter to you, the RAV4 Prime is the right choice. Put that together with Toyota's renowned reliabilty makes this car a very wise choice should you be looking for a fast, comfortable and nice looking ride!
Just a shame we spent 15 years w@nking up fear against it and the Prius, a car that can go well over 300,000 miles with basic maintenance if you wanted to.
My 2021 Civic has the CVT box, the way I get round it is use the flappy paddles to change gear to reduce the noise. After 18,000 miles you do get use to the sound or play musics a bit louder 👍🏻
The E-CVT in this car is a actually a technical marvel, fully decoupled drive chain from the engine to wheels using 2 motor/generators. I suspect the high rev nature with a heavy right foot is also about the tuning of the engine to make it more economic (atkinson cycle around 40% thermal efficiency compare to standard pertrol engines around 25% in otto cycle). Ford have licensed this system in the ford Kuga i believe.
I have a Toyota CH-R with the CVT transmission and the optional 2 litre engine. I watched as many RUclips reviews as I could regarding the car and quite a few mentioned the lag or if you like 'slipping' It doesn't bother me in the least but I think the technique is not to floor the throttle but to watch the power indicator and just let it get into the power section then allow the transmission to catch up with the vehicle motion then as the needle drops increase the throttle and so on. You might be surprised at just how much speed you are now travelling at. I'm not a boy racer and getting from 0-62 in 5 seconds doesn't interest me but the only time I do notice the CVT 'problem' is starting up a steep hill from a stand still and that doesn't bother me one iota. I think it's a case of technique. I do really enjoy your reviews BTW.
Appreciate your review of the RAV4 P. I own one here in the US, and absolutely love it. I have 2 Level2 EVSEs in my garage, and plug in the RAV as needed. I have 3k miles on mine, have filled the fuel tank just once. I regularly see an EV range of 50 miles, combined range of 600 miles. I have zero issues with the ECVT. Around town, I keep mine in Eco mode, which gives me plenty of pickup. If I need more power to merge onto the freeway, I don’t have to change a thing. It has plenty of power. Frankly, have never put it into Sport mode. All in all, very pleased with my purchase!
I’m really glad you have had this car as a long-termer. I’m now a big fan of Toyota, having a Corolla with the 2.0 Hybrid, after 5 years with a Golf R, and numerous GTIs prior. The ‘CVT’ transaxle is great - as you say if you drive it within its comfort zone. The big thing for me is the reliability, and the quality of the dealer network - this is a car you can run for 15 years, with just basic maintenance, no water pump leaks, coil pack failure etc.
This word reliability is often forgot when reviewers review cars. For a lot of people (especially as a family car) it’s at the top of the list way above the 0-60 time or how fast the boot shuts. Tue average RUclips review will compare a Toyota to some French or German car which you can’t really compare because of the reliability aspect.
My next door neighbour has an S reg corolla. The only real repair has been just brake discs and pads. Still has buttery smooth drive. Smoother than my 2 years old VW Tiguan.
As has now been pointed out, the transmission on the RAV4 PHEV isn't an old style CVT gearbox. Its far more advanced and efficient than that. I have been driving the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV for 7 years , which also has the same electronic multimode transmission as the RAV4. It provides a continuous and seamless drive, very smooth and ,yes, when under hard acceleration or going up steep hills, the engine revs go up. But its designed to do that. The engine isn't under strain. And to be honest, it rarely happens in most normal driving situations.
Very well done video Sir Pete!! Just have to state that I’ve always appreciated your genuineness and honesty with all the car reviews you do. It’s part of the charm of your channel. Most youtubers don’t give completely honest reviews and I feel you always do. Also here’s a we’re are you and what are you doing moment for ya: I listened to this whole video well shoveling my drive way that was covered in a foot and half snow ❄️ now that I’m done with that its off to get ready for a weekend long celebration for my wife’s 30th b day! Have a great weekend everyone!!
I’ve had mine for 18 months. I love it! I get 47-52 miles of range and have fueled up about 10 times total. I live in a mild climate which raises the range.
The noise of the CVT is a very minor drawback. You can live with it. The car offers practicallity, fuel economy, some off road capability, a spare tyre, and a strong motor.
And it cost 10k or more than comparable vehicles. Toyota can kiss my ass until they update their features to match competitors. They have the most lacking features, the worst warranty of all the manufacturers except Chrysler, and they are still priced like they have it all. Unless you get the most expensive models they suck.
@@EtherealoNe1 The competitor you're comparing it too are ? Renault ? Go take a look at the prices at Mercedes GLB for example or any other fancy name Audi/BMW...we'll speak after that.
@@colonelcccccuh how about every crossover and mid sized suv? Do you live under a rock? Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, Honda, etc. all have great options for less.
As a RAV 4 (2021) owner, I have used it limited on light trails here in the UK and it is absolutely fine. Even in EV mode it can tackle some steep inclines. But it is NOT an off roader. You're correct. But it can go off road if really needed. I love the looks and it does stand out in a very striking way, IMHO. I think the exhaust thing is subjective, I like them as they are. The tailgate is okay, it is a bit slow but I can live with that. Love the bicycle thing as I also have a bike so that is a strong point for me too, so well done for illustrating this !. The design by Toyota has given it a SUV look that ''means business''. The build quality, fit and finish is 100% top class. It may not compete with Land Rover or Volvo, VW etc. But it is snapping at their heels. I purchased a late 2021 model (basic spec but it has everything I need) with a silly low mileage and I bought it from a Toyota franchise near where I live so I have peace of mind that it is being serviced by them. In the early spring / summer it will do 56 miles on EV . Yes 56 miles not 46 miles - it is that good. I have yet to go through winter with it, to be fair. I've not come across the sound thing when ''pushing on'' so for me no problem. I don't hear it. Arguably in ''sport mode'' it is being well, errr, sporty ? Arguably the noise might be for some a good thing. Not an issue for me. As also the infotainment system not an issue for me. To be fair the fact you say it like you think it is for you, that is being honest and that is all one can ask. So a great honest review. Well done PP 😀
Great review, unbiased, and fair. Some of us would consider buying the vehicles you review; just hearing your thoughts on the vehicle gives us a fairly good starting point. Let's be honest: when you test drive a car from a dealership, you just don't get enough time with it to make a proper judgement . Keep it up mate 👍🏼 👌
I have a similar 2.5L in my Lexus RC. The revs of a CVT are the sounds of efficiency. Optimum torque and power at the time needed. No belts on an e cvt, it's a balance managed by motors and generators that manage the revs. Personally I like the system, wish my RC had plug in ability to. Car shoots off the line surprising many.
Absolutely love my RAV4 Prime. The so-called "CVT" is great and it does NOT have a rubber band and pulleys. It has planetary gears and is a brilliantly designed transmission. This transmission is used in the RAV4 Prime to maximize gas mileage and it is bullet proof. We are averaging over 90 mpg. and routinely get over 40 miles in EV range. We have timed 0-60 mph in 5.3 seconds. It is like a Chevrolet Volt on steroids, but with the added benefit of AWD and serious off-road capability. Fantastic vehicle.
I am a proud owner of Toyota RAV4 PHEV and after over 3,500 miles of driving I can confirm It's very comfortable and looks absolutely great just looking at it at your drive and at the shopping centre car park. On top of that, having leaned how to use hybrid cars, ( previously used CHR - 20,000 miles) I have no issue what so ever with CVT gearbox you're complaining about, rather it enables me to get on average 90+ mpg on my 60 mile daily commute, utilising EV/Hybrid modes. And the RAV4 is fast, and I mean really fast!. You are warmly invited to join me on one of my commute to see how to get the best out of 2022 Toyota RAV4 PHEV. Thanks very much for your great videos and honesty, but given the choice, I will buy the RAV4 again for it's looks, comfortably, efficiency, power, and above all reliability.
I have a Rav 4 Hybrid. The CVT box doesn't cause me concern, infact I embrace the sharp rise in revs when booting it in sports mode. Great review, honest and open
Actually, the Toyota e-cvt is purely mechanical with an electric motor through a planet gear, which is very durable and brilliant. The speed difference between the electric motor and the input shaft is what's doing the gear changes. So no chain or rubber band. If you run the car normally, the noise isn't really a problem. If you like sporty driving, it's the wrong car anyways. The future hybrids with more electric power and bigger batteries will probably do ok with a small ice engine and a cvt. Maybe a lockup function would be a solution.
I have the Rav4 and that CVT noise you don't like is the noise that I do like. Each to their own I guess. I love it when I accelerate and the sound kicks in. It's sort of comforting. It takes away the boredom of a normally very quiet car.
I'm a canyoneer in Arizona and I have had my 2020 regular Rav4 3 wheels on and one off the ground over a foot on a pretty rough eroded AZ road. It performed like a champ, but, and it's a big but, I had TOYO TIRE OPEN COUNTRY A/T II and not the road tires. No lift, no larger rims. Just the size that would fit on the original size rims, so traction and these things really are pretty sweet. I had to trade it in for a Prius Prime to afford to see my kids when I finally got more time with them (long story). I LOVE the Prime, but now with the RAV4 Prime here in the US being more available, I am excited to get back into a canyoning machine and the 2024 Prime RAV4 has a bunch of stuff that make it a great camping and adventuring machine that doesn't burn so much fuel.
I also did the Cornwall trip in my HEV RAV4 over the New Year and agree that it is a comfortable long distance cruiser. This is my third Toyota HEV (a Prius and a C-HR) and agree that the CVT is very marmite. I have learnt to drive around it and it does prefer to be driven in a more laid back manner, with the extra performance in reserve. I presume that Toyota has set it up this way so that the engine runs in its most economical range, it does run the Atkinson cycle for this. It would be interesting to drive a hybrid with a more conventional automatic gearbox, but this will be academic in a few years when we all move to BEVs anyway. I just hope that they've added a few more charges points in Cornwall and elsewhere by then as when we stopped at Exeter services all the chargers were in use.
These cars are in high demand at the moment. Purchasers must wait two ++ months for delivery. Being able to take a test drive at many dealerships is very limited to non-existent. Hence, these on-line reviews are critical. I liked this reviewer's candor. It helped me latch onto the "CVT" debate. I frankly don't think it's a significant issue at all, but thank the reviewer for his apparently unbiased views.
I drove one for the first time today in and around West London, as an owner of previous extremely expensive luxury 4 x 4 cars i was shocked how lovely this car is, beautiful to drive, great rugged build, nice and very understated, super comfortable, i didn't notice any issues with the rubber band CVT gearbox but noticed its different to conventional, sadly its a very long delivery slot but I've ordered one.
Great review, I have driven one this morning and am very impressed by it. Please note that this CVT of Toyota is not a mechanical CVT (which suffers from poor efficiency) but an electric CVT, its actually a great piece of innovation. The engines do not have a turbo but work with an Atkinson cycle to have best efficiency. They have an incredible peak efficiency of 40%. The electric CVT is a generator that let the engine spin up when more power is needed. Doesn't sound fantastic but it means that a cruising speed these engines are running at a low rpm as close to peak efficiency as possible. Just saying, don't to be compared with mechanical CVT, Toyota has really perfectionized this system and pusing for max efficiency. I am thinking of going to buy one.
I watched a video from the RUclips channel "WeberAuto" called "Understanding The Toyota Rav4 Hybrid", where they extensively showed the inner workings of the e-cvt, front and rear. After watching I was a firm believer in the quality and reliability of the e-cvt. It didnt take me long to get used to the way it sounded. Had a 2018 Rav4 Hybrid. And 3 days ago, bought a 2021 toyota venza with the same platform. I love my new Venza...been averaging 41-45 miles per gallon so far.
Having owned a standard hybrid RAV4 for 9 months, I need to point out that none of the Toyota hybrids have a CVT gear box (cones and belts) they use a concept called ECVT which uses an electric motor and direct coupled gears to achieve variable gearing. They do this so the ICE engine can run in the most efficient mode possible for the power output. I aggree it sounds odd when you put your foot down, but if you used a standerd gearbox your mpg would be worse for no gain in power. Having driven many thousands of miles the disconnected revs from pedal input doesn't bother me anymore, I just get between 44 and 52 mpg with good perfomance and great carrying capability e.g. 8 foot xmas tree inside.
This has been one of the best. I am not into supercars and even £40 K is now more than I can afford. I now own an ICE Outlander with a CVT. Yes, it does seem strange but I am no longer a performance driver so it's OK. An EV is a step too far for me so a PHEV would be a great answer to my needs but something I will probably never own. However, an honest assessment of this car is refreshing to see. The designers tend to be too close to a project to see what is wrong. There will be some motoring journalists who will praise the "King's New Clothes" so as to preserve their job. But a reality check may change the car industry for the better. Well done. 👍
I have never particularly enjoyed any type of automatic transmission (including the awful original CVT in a DAF) but in 2019 we were lucky enough to drive a Nissan Altima CVT from Harrisburg Pennsylvania up through the Canadian Rockies to the West Coast and back to Chicago, about 7000 miles. The transmission was an absolute delight and really well set up, with minimum “clutch slip noise” and always totally responsive. It was like always being in exactly the right gear for the desired response, from gentle acceleration in town traffic to frantic steep uphill overtaking. However the car was a 2.5 litre petrol not a hybrid which may be somewhat more of a challenge. BTW Love the channel.
I pick up a 22 plate premium version the same colour as yours on Saturday. I enjoyed your description of how the cvt system works and I now have a much better understanding of it. Thankyou
I had a Lexus IS300h for 4 years, basically the same engince as the RAV 4, but no plug in. You kind of adjust your driving style to a more relaxed style with the CVT, but it can be quite brisk especially from a standstill. The only downside I found was that sometimes in icy weather the braking could be a little strange, being rear wheel drive it would do the energy recovery so braking more on the rear until the system handed over to the proper brakes where you would expect a front bias, it would induce a skid quite easily albeit at a very slow speed. Overall a cracking car though I thought, effortless motorway cruiser.
Great video - I am on the wait list for a 2023 / 2024 model and a couple things to note / add to your video: 1) 2023 has an update to the infotainment system and has a digital driver display so much improved compared to the 2022 model 2) charging while driving is meant as a last resort - it should only be used when driving a highway speeds when the ICE is at its most efficient and not necessarily when going up hills unless absolutely needed. As you indicated, it needs to be charged overnight and because it can be done on a standard 120V outlet, you can even charge while on vacation/ road trips if you can park next to your rental unit Cheers!!
Great review as always. I am intrigued by these CVT transmissions and I think what you describe you hear under hard acceleration is what youngsters riding their rev ‘n’ go 50cc and 125cc mopeds sound like - they hit a constant sounding rev ‘limit’ but actually the engines is a peak power in its power band……….. Ask anyone who has ridden a Gilera runner fast and hard! Keep up the good work. 👍. PS I currently drive a BMW X1 with 190bhp diesel and auto transmission and can get 55-60 mpg on a long journey. I will test drive a Rav 4 PHEV and see for myself what it’s all about. I think it will suit my driving style. 🥴
Great review… can I just point out though that the gearbox is Toyota’s ‘e-cvt’ NOT a belt driven old school cvt and they use it in their hybrid drive train for it’s efficiency. I’m not an engineer but you look on line on RUclips there are some very good videos explaining how it works and it’s very clever and robust…… Anyway, I appreciate your honest reviews saying things as you find them. As someone who has recently traded my diesel Volvo XC60 with its ’geartronic’ auto box for the ‘self charging’ RAV4 hybrid, I find the CVT gearbox incredibly smooth and seamless in the way it drives. Now I always thought my Volvo’s gearbox was incredibly smooth but the RAV4 is an even quieter and smoother in normal driving, and I think that is the key here. Most people buying the RAV4 hybrid (either ‘self charge’ or PHEV) are not going to want to drive it like a sports car, they are simply going to want to waft along enjoying the comfort, (and it’s every bit as comfortable as the Volvo which is a great compliment) quiet ride and ultimately the great fuel consumption from what is a decent sized SUV. On the odd occasion when you need to put your foot down and use the performance to overtake etc, then yes it may get a bit ‘busy’ but it doesn’t detract from the other 99% of smooth quiet driving. For me personally I couldn’t justify the extra £10k for the PHEV over the ‘self charge’ and I love the fact that I can just drive and never give a thought to what the clever hybrid system is doing … until I stop at the pump to fill up and realise the great fuel consumption I’ve achieved 😊👍 ….. and PS, when I want sporty acceleration I just take the V8 SL500 out!! 😆
Thanks for this. I was trying to simplify things but thanks for the excellent explanation. As I said in the review, for town and relaxed driving this car is super smooth and I like it. It’s when you push on, go into charge mode or climb a steep hill the the high revving engine is not to my liking 👍
@@PetrolPed thanks I know it’s difficult keeping explanations simple. Like I said, great review as ever but just thought I’d let you know my thoughts. I think you’re right that hybrids are the way forward rather than full EVs with the current technology 👍
Toyota have been using this (non-pulley) type e-cvt since the first Prius in the 90s. It is a beautifully simply concept in the way it works. Very reliable. But I can understand why people don’t like it at first. I find the best way to drive us in ECO mode, it reduces the way the engine seems to over rev when driving on the motorway when trying to maintain constant speed. Having done 90000 miles in my 2018 RAV4, you get used to it, just drive more gently to get the best out of it.
I don't love the sound of a CVT, but I TRUST the engineering of this car. The gear driven E-CVT might be the longest lasting semi traditional transmission ever built, since it's just a beefed up version of the Prius transmission. That being said, I don't own a prime, and I'd need to live with it to see. But the benefits seem worth it.
I enjoyed your review thanks. Basically you're saying that the 30% you don't like is mainly the sound of the engine note. I've had mine (the Suzuki Across badge engineered equivalent) for about 3000 miles now and love it. I bought it because of the ecvt planetary/electric gearbox which, to my mind, removes all of the clutch/friction based compromises of alternative automatic gearboxes. It's designed to keep the IC engine within its maximum efficiency limited rev band as it's an Atkinson cycle. The combination of the two makes for very good mpg. If you want to cane it a bit (not the reason you bought one of these I suspect) then it'll raise the revs to a less efficient and noisier level. I do agree the infotainment system is dated, the cameras aren't the sharpest and the tailgate is slow. I'm also not entirely convinced that the collision avoidance feature works but how to test!? The real killer is £500 extra excise duty because it cost over £40k, if I'd bought the IC version I'd have avoided that - a perverse non-incentive from HMG.
Absolutely nobody is passing on this car because of the CVT, it's buttery smooth, efficient, and trouble free, after driving cars with CVT's I never want to go back, a multi speed tyranny makes total sense in a manual trans, but it's far more off putting when an auto jumps gears when it wants to, instead of when you want it to, with a CVT, it's just smooth accel/decel from 0-top speed.
Great review, very honest, as you can see from a lot of of the comments below, and also true of myself, I have gotten used to the CVT gearbox and while it was strange at the beginning, it works like a Swiss clock, and it never breaks down. I think most of your comments ( like the infotainment system and the CVT ) are a reflection of the conservative approach Toyota takes to cars. If it don’t break, don’t fix it. I have the hybrid AWD version, and if I compare to previous cars I have owned, the reliability is just stellar. Sure I would love the car with a traditional drive train, but if I get the traditional drive train, at traditional reliability, I probably would not be happy. Kinda like knowing there is a difference between what you need and what you want.
Unless they have a different CVT in the UK, the RAV4 Prime does not have a two cone CVT. It has a eCVT which uses a planetary gear with an electric motor controlling the sun gear and giving a CVT gearing action. I don’t think CVTs make any more or different noise than a automatic or a manual transmission. It just has no gear shifts. They sound the same in cars where they simulate gear shift (which probably reduces the fuel economy of a good CVT). In the car you have (top of the line) there are paddle shifters that would make it like a paddle shifted manual.
Hi Pete. Having brought a CHR six months ago it is a vehicle you want to like. It rides like you are on a cloud and exactly as you say around town it is a fine vehicle. Out of town unfortunately it is a different story with the CVT gearbox being noisey and having to hear the constant high revs once conscious becomes a problem. I am hoping I will get used to it as the car otherwise is very good, The only thing as a general comment I find with my CHR is that modern driving demands limit the opportunities to drive it to obtain maximum mpg. For example pulling out of a junction or at a roundabout you have to accelerate quicker that the car would like so the engine immediately cuts in so immediately defeating the purpose.
I have a 2023 Suzuki Across which is basically a rav4 plug in hybrid with a different front valance and grill. It started showing 43 miles of EV range when i got it new Nov2023. Now in October 2024 it shows 69 … yes 69 miles of range and im easily getting 58-64 of those on the road, its showing 3.9miles per kwh long term average, incredible. When used as a pure hybrid with no battery ev assistance apart from the standard small hybrid battery it returns anywhere between 58-80mpg. This car is staggering, and the Suzuki rebadged version is wsy cheaper especially second hand than the Toyota badged version. Best car i have had in 40 years of some high end vehicles. It does EVERYTHING so well it gets undef your skin with its huge breadth of capabilities
Ive had this car for 12 months it is great ,yes there are niggles but overall it is brilliant, very quick also! Think phevs are best overall option at moment , we average over 199 miles per gallon.
Have owned a RAV 4 Hybrid for the last 2.5 years, loved it, one of the best cars I have driven. Now awaiting the arrival of the RAV 4 PHEV due April, looking forward to this too. Understand totally your comments regarding the so called noisy CVT side of things, but you do get used to this and it does not become an issue. This is Toyotas best selling car or was, we were lucky to be able to order our new one, for some reason you can't get them at all at the moment. Keeping fingers crossed that mine will appear in April!! P.S. knocking 30% of is a little steep, think it is easily 95%+ a brilliant car. Excellent review otherwise!
Great review. As always I think it depends what you want from the car. Recently sold an outlander PHEV which has a similar noise when pushing on. But we are a two car family. For me the PHEV is the workhorse. It has to handle the school, dog(s), shopping, bikes, tip runs, holidays. It has to keep the cost down (tax,mpg) to free up funds for the second car. Also, if you have a significant other (who may not be interested in cars) it needs to be non-fussy and easy to drive and park. (You didn’t mention what Mrs Petrol Ped thought of the drive) We were getting over 100mpg with the outlander phev because most of our trips were local and the wife loved how easy it was to drive and park. On Cornish hills the car struggled badly with no battery charge and sounded very bad, even embarrassing, at times. I found it was essential to use charge mode which then gave it the necessary power for hills. Otherwise I learnt to accept the noise and drove around to avoid going into that rev range My PHEV was 3 yrs old when I bought it so a lot cheaper than the RAV. I happily lived with the noise knowing that I would be paying 0 tax and (for my use case) getting > 99mpg. To be fair it’s better than older automatics boxes which tended to have a mind of their own. If you are a one-car family and you like driving you are probably better off with an estate.
I have a Corolla saloon having had a Prius before. Love the hybrid technology and mpg but agree that the CVT gearbox can make it sound like the car is blowing up! Great review by the way.
It's actually not the CVT that makes the engine sound like it's blowing up. It's a different valve timing used in hybrid engines, which makes them more fuel efficient, but means they only produce power at high revs. This is impractical in normal cars, but is fine in a hybrid because the electric motor can provide the low-end torque instead.
I really really wanted to like this car! Once again an honest appreciation and review of the car. I personally take a great deal of credence from your reviews, and they undoubtedly are becoming an integral part of my buying process. Thanks.
i believe they're using the e-cvt due to the reliability it has over a normal automatic gearbox....the entire toyota brand is built on simplicity and reliability. they could easily add a turbo to their 2.5L lineup and a ZF gearbox which would make the cars rockets + less noise but also way less reliable.
Surely since the CVT is so noisy when going up hill, and i know because ive tested the standard hybrid, switch it to EV instead and when you get to the top, switch it to engine mode. It feels quite obvious to me that you'd use the EV mode to do the accelerating and up hills, fuel/ hybrid mode for level road, and recharge mode when going downhill because it uses less fuel going downhill so may as well top up the battery from the engine. It depends on what route is being driven but I honestly don't see the cvt noise as being an issue if you engage more with the battery selection. But great video BTW I really want the pluggin Rav.
I have watched other RUclipsrs and my rule of thumb is that if in describing the car they fail to mention ANY negative to discount their opinion. Typically I have already read the written articles if it is a car of interest. In those cases the failure to at least discuss things that others see as issues is a deal killer in terms of my motivation to watch future videos. Even if the only negative is "I can't afford it" I want to hear the truth. I appreciate your videos because I do in fact trust your opinion and purchasing decisions I have made based on your recommendations have been consistently accurate.
A very well balanced review. Great for the consumer. Your points are all well made and very valid. I've had Toyota's and they are always well spec'd but a bit dull to drive in my opinion. Thanks Pete.
I had a Honda Civic 2018 1.5 turbo with a CVT, drove 74 000km. The "changing a gear" simulations were done quite nice and it was not annoying at all. Plus in city traffic the cvt was so smooth.
I watched a lot of R4P reviews, and you are the only one who touched on what I felt when I test-drove this car. I drive a 240-HP 3.0-Liter 6-Cylinder 2008 BMW, and I never hear or feel any revving when I accelerate. I went to test drive this R4P with strong intention to buy it, as I was expecting to be blown away by the 302-HP. But was annoyed by this revving noise when I tried to accelerate. I thought it was because the battery was empty (It was not charged at the dealership), so the car is only running on the 177-HP ICE, and that is why it was noisy. As I am trying to try driving it again with the battery charged, but now, if your battery was charged when you shot this video, you are confirming the noise is attributed to the CVT, not a depleted battery.
I love no gears. No clutches to wear. A standard auto is a timer set to fail based on use and time. The Ecvt's are very reliable. I can floor it off the line and I dont feel like a slipping a Dual clutch. Solenoids wearing. etc. No torque converters to fail. I happily hear a little drone of the engine with no shifts to jackrabbit start to the speed limit for the life of the car with no failures. Standard cars shift weird until they warm up as well. This is coming from a Prius which I beat the wheels off of. Tow 1000lb plus regular. 255k. Just drain and fill new fluid every 50k or so. Drives 100% the same. I have never had a regular auto feel the same for this long. Now if you are mostly highway miles there will not be much difference as the transmission will outlast the engine and body.
I had a Subaru Forester, for a few months, with a CVT gearbox and petrol engine. I found that a progressive press on the throttle was the the best way of getting good acceleration without the over-revving sound, sounding more like a normal geared auto box.
On our second rav 4 hybrid, to be honest you do get used to the cvt gearbox, because overall to many plus points about this car, and by the way it copes very well in snow and rutted countryside lanes as we live on a farm, overall good review.
Before upgrading to electric I owned a couple of hybrid Toyotas, a Prius then Auris. Fascinated to know how they worked I watched a few RUclips tear down videos. The transaxle has under 30 moving parts compared to a few hundred in a torque converter automatic, and that includes the 2 electric motor/generators. The CVT is done via planetary gears. The noise is ‘unconventional’ however it’s a reason the system is so efficient. The engines revs immediately to where the power is and varies the gearing to match the road speed. Consequently the engine is always operating efficiently at maximum power rather than build up to power, gear change, build up again and so on. So, it’s a simple engineering solution that’s more efficient than the more complex conventional transmission. Also, as you point out lower manufacturing costs. A PHEV is always going to be a compromise, neither a good electric or a good petrol car. At £47k it’s an expensive car against the EV competition. Cost of ownership of a Model Y, ID4 or its VW cousins would probably be the same or less. Even the MG ZS, which you speak highly of, in its new 250 mile range evolution at £28k looks like a bargain in comparison. Not sure about the comparable fossil market.
To add to your good explanation: the valve timing is also different on hybrid engines (modified Atkinson cycle) to further increase mpg. The down-side is a massive loss of low-end torque. So the engine has to rev much higher than you expect for typical uses. I really like how responsive the electric CVTs are, but I too dislike the sound of a spuriously high-revving engine.
Thanks for this. I have no doubt that it done for a very good reason as Toyota are masters of engineering. I just don’t get on with the driving experience 😢
@@PetrolPed I agree, a car enthusiast might not like the noises coming from the car and the way it behaves. However, would the typical buyer of a reasonably anonymous SUV in this price bracket care that much. I’d imagine other features of the car such as the practicality are more important.
I have had multiple vehicles from the late 1960s fitted with CVT. My first cars were from DAF (33, 44, 55) and subsequently others with a variety of CVT variants. The DAF CVT had a simple selector, it was forward to go forward, back to go back and in the centre was neutral. The great advantage of the CVT is that you stay in the peak power range while the vehicle accelerates, hence the sound of the engine revving. In terms of performance the early DAF cars which had small engines (33 was 746cc twin cylinder air cooled, 44 was 844cctwin cylinder air cooled, and the 55 using a Renault engine was 1108cc 4cyl water cooled). I had all three variants over a period of about 6 years, took them to Europe and cruised them at 100mph all day long. My more recent experiences have been with Nissan X-Trail and Qashqai models, my current drive is a 2021 X-Trail 2.5 litre CVT 2 wheel drive Model ST-L. The major difference these days is that there is a 'manual selector' that has 6 pre-defined ratios or settings. I use both fully automatic and if the driving conditions require it I will use the manual selector. In most cases however I prefer to use the CVT as a fully automatic piece of kit, a job it does really well. The system has the option to use engine braking for hill descents and this is quite good at maintaining the speed without the necessity for braking. In summary: I have driven many cars over the last 55 years, small engines to large V8s, manual and automatic, I have driven in Europe on autobahns, in England on B class roads and motorways, in Australia on dirt roads, B class roads, and freeway/toll-ways. The seamless driving achieved by CVT wins out overall. they give linear acceleration, absolutely 'jerk free' and in my experience good fuel economy. Currently my X-Trail 2.5 ST-L CVT returns 7.9 Litres per 100 klm in the city (Urban) and around 5.7 klm for country/main road. I did enjoy the video, and look forward to your review after you have lived with the CVT for a few more months. 🙂 Best regards from Australia Gerry
I've been driving a Corolla with a CVT for about 18 months having been driving DSGs. Unlike other gearboxes, the revs tell you how much power you need/have. Put your foot down and they rise to 3000 rpm. Mash it right down and they rise to 5000. After a while you get used to it. If you don't like it turn up the music.
Hi - as an addition to my previous comment: I've read that the paddles on the steering wheels are just for upshifting and downshifting the gears when the petrol engine is running. On my Across at least, when running in EV Mode, they DO alter the level of slowing down and regeneration - which I like even if it's pretty much the same as achieving the same effect by regenerative braking using the foot pedal.
Very nice video of all the goods and bads of this great car. Yes, it is expensive, but I find it to be the perfect compromise between ICE and BEV cars. Especially in my case, where the local charging infrastructure is non-existent. I'm expecting my RAV4 PHEV (probably identical trim level to yours) to finally arrive next month. I believe Toyota's eCVT advancements and overall drivetrain complexities are optimizing the driving experience around fuel efficiency, rather than trying to simulate the "traditional engine revving". I guess the paddle shifters are just a cool looking accessory? 😄
Great video. Have a Rav4 Hybrid on order (for a while now) and should get by end Feb 22. Meanwhile have driven the Prius, CHR and Yaris hybrids through a local car club. The CVT on the motorway is OK until reaching an incline. There are a couple of steep motorways in Scotland! It gets very noisy trying to maintain speed. I find that if I lift off slightly and then gently reapply the accelerator, it prompts a change of "gear ratio" which can help. Keep up the good reviews 👍
I have had mine nearly a year now, just the hybrid version in Dynamic trim and think its a good car. Agree with you re entertainment being poor but it’s really easy and intuitive to use. For nav I do switch to apple. The CVT is not great re the noise but I tend to waft along most of the time with the radio on so not an issue. To be fair most autos I have driven over the last few years have issues. DCTin my Kia Sportage was great once moving but pulling away was sometimes a little odd. I guess after a year of ownership and just over 12k miles I don’t even notice the gearbox/ noise. What I have noticed is the drop in fuel consumption which I can only imagine is down to E10. We have gone from 59mpg down to 51mpg since September!. Great review as always.
The most important thing is that the cvt is the most reliable gearbox in this model and it’s just a case of getting used to it. Zero problems, turn the music up… problem solved 🤓
I'm not a huge fan of CVTs, they have kept me from buying Toyota's for years. But this car's e-CVT isn't bad at all. If you don't accelerate hard in hybrid mode, you don't hear it, and you obviously never hear it in EV mode. I enjoyed my test drive a great deal. I test drove it in very adverse weather conditions, basically a blizzard with fair amount of snow on the road, and the AWD system handled it well. I was so impressed that when I got home I ordered one.
I bought a new Auris hybrid excel! Brilliant car except for that CVT which is basically the same! I found that I just changed my driving habits completely as I really didn't like that sound of a stressed engine! I got used to it and accepted that a light right foot was de'riguir. 🙄🤔👍
Great review! I have not driven the Rav4 Prime yet but my Honda Clarity has seemless transition from EV mode to Hybrid mode, sadly, the Honda Clarity was only available in North America from 2018 to 2021. On my long trip from Vancouver to Calgary I got 56 mpg after the EV range of 105 km was depleted and I was in HV mode which also charged the battery to 50%. I think Honda was losing a lot of money on the Clarity but I always plug it in my home wall box so I virtually never go to a gas station unless I am going out of town. When I bought my Clarity the combined instant rebate from the provincial and federal governments was $10,000, this was taken right from the invoice from the dealer so I don't have to apply for the rebate after I paid for it. In general, it is a great PHEV but it was hard to find at the dealer when it was for sale especially in Provinces where there was no provincial rebates to sweeten the deal. The RAV4 Prime is hard to find and you have to order it and wait 8 months for it to arrive. But the PHEV is the only way to go at least for the next few years as there is really no infrastructure to support an EV unless you are on the Tesla charging network.
I have owned a 2012 Honda Insight and my mom owns a 2015 Toyota Yaris Hybrid. The CVT gearbox in the Toyota is widely regarded as the best of all the CVT gearboxes. We have to remember that we don't buy hybrids for their performance and thus shouldnt drive them, thinking they should put our pants on fire with their performance.
I had a Prius+ issued to me as a company car, think this uses same CVT type gearbox as the RAV 4 in your review. Totally agree about over-revving / clutch slipping experience, hated it initially. Now. after covering 49k miles since April 2019 I've just got used to it - suppose it's just a compromise as part of the overall driver experience for the car. Great review - was thinking of RAV 4 when I get chance to replace my car.
I own (in fact my wife) the 2017 Rav4 hybrid. It's not as good and powerful as the new, but it's a very cool car. I also had to get used to the CVT. I also wondered why not put a ZF gearbox, or a dualclutch. But it works very smoothly and in practice, we are not very often in high revs. But it's true that alongside the Rav4, I have a BMW M340i which offers me another experience when I feel like it.
Great review. I get 45-50 miles of EV range on mine, not 40. Also, coming from a number of Toyota/Lexus hybrids, I am very happy with its transmission system (not quite a traditional CVT): Toyota uses this transmission for its fuel economy on HV - which is class leading. I value fuel economy over noise, so not an issue for me. Out of interest, anyone out there with a RAV4 PHEV heat exchanger noise issue in cold weather?
Yes, an understanding of how it works goes a long way towards getting accustomed to the high revs and related noise that the small _engine_ makes! It should be no more annoying than the small exhaust pipes (LoL) when you understand that it is normal for this powertrain.
Great review as always. I watched before I bought ….. and now, after I bought …. As I’ve recently bought the 2023 version of this after a remapped BMW X3 M40i … it’s a bit of a change to say the least but I love it ! You hit the nail on the head with mostly great except the gearbox and infotainment, They have replaced the infotainment for 2023 and it is hugely better. The car overall is so smooth and quiet in EV and hybrid, so comfy, that I can forgive the quirky CVT which I did have in a 71 plate Yaris so did actually know what to expect. My driving 90% of the time doesn’t need any more than a squirt of acceleration these days so the noise I can live with and laugh when it does it … as it is still pokey and 300hp ! It does shift when it wants but stopping is more of an issue than the BMW was. The economy is great and it is a lovely place to be for a normal if not spirited drive. I miss my X3 M40i but not the fuel bills one bit . The RAV4 phev is a lovely car and a ten year UK warranty was what swung it too. My battery is currently showing 51 miles purely electric so I wonder if they have slightly updated it for 2023 ?
So let me see. You've either got an ICE car where you are dragging a heavy battery pack around or an EV where you are dragging around an ICE engine, gearbox and fuel tank. Hmm. That said, my wife's Honda Jazz ehev, which is a hybrid, will do 70+ MPG if treated gently and 60+ MPG if not thrashed. I'd rather go BEV, but as a pensioner, I just can't afford the upfront costs. The Jazz also has a CVT box, but it only starts to annoy if pushing the car very hard. The transition from EV mode to ICE assisted is very smooth if, as I have said, you do not push the car hard, but as I tend to drive with a gentler right foot than 20 years ago, this seldom becomes an issue. Great and honest review, as always , Pete.
AS mentioned before I drive a RAV 4 Hybrid 2021 for almost a year it has 25,000 km at the moment . My car has a complete different infotainment system 12”’ touch screen and no buttons . Its called Drive+ 2.0 . I live in Taiwan . I enjoy my Rav and it gives me what I want . Thank you for your review . CVT no problem for me car very responsive , and I drove PDK before .
Another issue to mention, is that you have to drive it at least once a week , the other day did not use it for more then a week , and it did not start anymore! Apparently battery is small and drains in one or the other way . But a jumpstart helped !
You should learn about the CVT. It uses a planetary gear set with one part connected to the engine and another part by the motor/generator with the third part connected to the drive line. There are no “cones and rubber bands”. Perhaps you could learn how it works and do a video to explain it. It is clever but simple and with an understanding of the workings in the various modes you may enjoy this part of the technology a little more?
Currently got exactly the same model on a four day test. Haven’t probably got enough time to really test everything to the max. Initially though my thoughts are great internal space, high quality interior, very comfortable, punchy engine / electric combo quicker than my BMW for a big car it hustles, gearbox doesn’t bother me (I haven’t noticed a problem albeit I’m coming from a manual) . First impressions I could live with this car long term.
I agree a CVT box us a pain. My Honda Hybrid and both my Ford Hybrids, had one, and I agree with you it sounds like the engine was straining. As you say, no noise in electric mode....
Thank you for giving an honest review, some guys love every car they drive to the extent I start thinking there must be some incentive for them to do that
Ped you are absolutely spot on with your appraisal of the RAV 4. I have the Honda CRV e hybrid - same issues and it drives me mad on motorways especially when accelerating so much so I’m selling it despite it being comfortable, spacious and great around town. I think I am going to look at the Sorento - if I can get one!!
Thank you for the video, just a simple comment related with CVT... I'm the current owner of a Lexus IS 300h and I love the CVT in these powerful cars ;-)
Excellent coverage of daily living with this car. It has tremendous benefits, and I think that most buyers don’t give a hoot about the CVT noise, even if they noticed it. Keep in mind that you are likely to be biased towards high performance cars, manuel gear boxes, etc - but this is a mass-market practical family car that you made super-compelling in your review 😊
You need to watch WeberAuto analysis of the eCVT, no rubber bands in the Toyota implementation. It's an amazing design with two electric motors and a planetary gear set. Once you understand that, you can appreciate the way the engine stays in its most efficient RPM and transfers torque to the drive gears. It's cool.
The only gripe I have about any car is where the two exhaust tips poke out the back. I do think aggressive tips can look more stylish with some body/bumper enhancement to defuse the stuck out tips. Just wanted to get that in the open! Totally with you on this aspect of a car's body profiling.
Excellent review and good food for thought, iv got a test drive for one of these on Monday and this has been a real help. A review of the Tiguan PHEV would be a good one to see how an engine of smaller capacity compares (1.4) when it comes down to usability and practicality.
After the test drive I must say this car really does grow on you as you mentioned in your review. Once we spent a little time with the vehicle the huge list of good points far outweigh the lacking infotainment and CVT like gearbox. The more I think about the gearbox the more I make peace with it as it facilitates the most endearing feature of this vehicle which is the EV range and overall efficiency which a normal auto dual clutch box wouldn't. In this price bracket the rav 4 is definitely the best PHEV for efficiency and features. Thanks again for the review
My wish that it was just a electric car with big battery. Toyota makes a very nice car and I have got relatives that own a few different ones. They usually get the higher end models which make these smashing.
Sorry I used a generic description of a CVT to try and keep it simple and this isn’t the type fitted to this vehicle. In hindsight I should have explained it in more detail 😢 Thanks to those of you that pointed that out 🙏🏻
Have you experienced a CVT gearbox and what did you think ?
We have two Toyota hybrids one being a work corolla and the other being a Yaris . When I got the Corolla I thought the same as you , but now I don’t even notice the sound of the engine to be honest , it’s something you get used to
I’ve driven a petrol Toyota Auris with a conventional CVT and now own a hybrid Auris with the eCVT. In my opinion, they feel much the same and the technical differences don’t really matter. CVT suits a relaxed driving style but I can understand why a driving enthusiast wouldn’t like it.
17:30 I've driven a PriusV with CVT for 10 years now. I think your dissatisfaction is mostly a matter of perception. If you have driven a manual transmission, engine rev's and speed are linearly proportional. Increase the rev''s 50% and the speed increases 50%. My current motorcycle drives this way (as well as the last dozen I've had), so it is a very familiar sensation. Torque Converter transmissions allow a bit of "slip", rev's are mostly proportional to speed. Unless you have your foot to the floor, rev's increase with speed. CVT transmissions (yes, I know the T stands for Transmission) are different. The engine can very quickly speed up to the hp associated with the load without the car accelerating (much). So, the engine can put out 50, 100 or 150hp at almost any speed. The CVT then changes the gear ratio to accelerate the car. So, adjust the engine speed to match the load first and change the gear ratio to accelerate second. There is no "slipping clutch" or centrifugal clutch you remember from your mini-bike days. I come not to bury the quick revving engine, but to praise it!
I used to have a Lexus CT hybrid with an eCVT. It was very responsive, but it sounded horrible. It would've been an enjoyable car to drive if you're deaf...
We have an Audi SQ5 with a torque converter GB and we also have a new shape Yaris with the CVT GB. Two very different cars. You want to put your foot down a bit more in the Audi to appreciate the power but jump in the Yaris and you want to drive in a more relaxed style. I love both cars. For me personally when I'm in the Yaris I barely notice the CVT. I've just got used to driving steady and seeing 65-66 mpg (vs 35 in Audi). My opinion... CVT is fine if you drive in a laid back manner. It's what hybrids are all about (unless you're in a LaFerrari I suppose 😂)
In 60,000 miles in my 2019 RAV4 the noise really has not bothered me, ANY car when floored will make a lot of engine noise, the only difference with the CVT is its fairly steady note and not rising and falling note like a regular auto. Its overall volume is not intrusive IMHO and better than many non CVT cars I have had where as the revs get higher they sound pretty rough. The Toyota also has the advantage that the engine is held at its peak efficiency revs and the power delivery is seamless and continuous. Anyone considering the car do evaluate for yourself. If it were a real issue I wouldn't have another one on order!
Exactly. You either want it held at it's peak efficiency or you don't!
This year or the next I will definitely buy the Rav4 Hybrid and I was kind of worry about the Noise I started noticing reviewers talk about. So thank you for your comment.
I just bought my Rav4 Prime a week ago. It's a great car. It does get a little noisy when the engine comes on though. But I drove a little over 700 miles and only used a quarter tank of gas! For most people, and you can check with a lot of other videos, the Rav4 is really fast. Remember, it does 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds and that's been tested by a number of youtube videos. You should also point out that there are very few cars that have the quality build like a Toyota or the resale value which was one of the reasons I bought it. There's absolutely no substitute for reliability. Although you stated that you didn't like the car for 30% based on the transmission, I would suspect that over 95% of the people who bought are happy with it, hence it being the most popular car in the U.S. next to the Ford F-150. Buyers shouldn't be expecting that the Rav4 to have the power of an old school V8 GTO, but 0-60 in less in 5.7 seconds is good enough for the large majority of people. And btw, a GTO is not going to get you 92 miles per gallon! try like 8 miles to the gallon! lol.
You know what yr talking about hopefully Ped is
The Toyota RAV 4 is an International vehicle , enormously practicle , with excellent re sale value , standard of finish , serviceability and reliability . Your criticism is weak and unfounded , in a vehicle that does everything so well .
@@walterj.sutton.9860 Too right he's fussy let him stick to unreliable minis
The e-cvt with planetary gear set makes the PHEV brilliantly efficient. The PHEV is almost as efficient as a HEV when running on petrol. Stick a traditional automatic and it becomes grotesquely less efficient.
Totally agreed, XC60 T8 is an example of Not an efficient hybrid when the battery is low.
The question is, how many times a day do you floor the accelerator? I almost never do that. And these gearboxes are economical and very reliable. And you can reduce the noise by switching up the paddle shifters on the steering wheel. A normal automatic gearbox will be quieter under heavy acceleration, but it is more expensive, heavier, less reliable and less economical.
Just test driven the car this evening. Thought the car was amazing and particularly in Ev mode and driving in a relaxing manner round town in hybrid. The issue you mention only occurred when you started accelerating quickly and when you drove out of town. This so called issue would not occur on the motorway cruising and in town driving when you would either be going go slowly or in EV mode. An exceedingly high proportion of journeys are less than 41 miles. I must admit I never heard it later in the evening when the kids had the music on which as a family car would be most of the time. For you as a petrol head I think it’s and issue but I think the majority of the buyers will not worry about this. For me I am waiting for the Lexus NX 450 PHEV. That will be my next car. Thanks for the honest review,
After waiting for a YEAR, I am told I’ll be taking delivery of my very own RAV4 Prime within the next 3-4 weeks. I’m stoked!
Exciting times 👍
I think the E-CVT gearbox is truly the most briljant invention in car history. Yes, it takes some miles/time to get used to but it definitely grows on you. My brand new RAV4 Prime does 47 miles ev and then performs like a regular hybrid vehicle. Plug it in when you can and not when you want and you will have a smile on your face the whole day! You do need your own charger back home though to make it a true joy but if performance, comfort, handling and looks matter to you, the RAV4 Prime is the right choice. Put that together with Toyota's renowned reliabilty makes this car a very wise choice should you be looking for a fast, comfortable and nice looking ride!
Just a shame we spent 15 years w@nking up fear against it and the Prius, a car that can go well over 300,000 miles with basic maintenance if you wanted to.
Imports to note its a planetary gear system CVT not a belt/chain and cylinder/cone CVT
no es cvt
My 2021 Civic has the CVT box, the way I get round it is use the flappy paddles to change gear to reduce the noise. After 18,000 miles you do get use to the sound or play musics a bit louder 👍🏻
I did do a piece to camera on the manual change feature but it didn’t make the final cut. To be honest it was that great 😬
The E-CVT in this car is a actually a technical marvel, fully decoupled drive chain from the engine to wheels using 2 motor/generators. I suspect the high rev nature with a heavy right foot is also about the tuning of the engine to make it more economic (atkinson cycle around 40% thermal efficiency compare to standard pertrol engines around 25% in otto cycle). Ford have licensed this system in the ford Kuga i believe.
There are no drive chains. Just gears
I have a Toyota CH-R with the CVT transmission and the optional 2 litre engine. I watched as many RUclips reviews as I could regarding the car and quite a few mentioned the lag or if you like 'slipping' It doesn't bother me in the least but I think the technique is not to floor the throttle but to watch the power indicator and just let it get into the power section then allow the transmission to catch up with the vehicle motion then as the needle drops increase the throttle and so on. You might be surprised at just how much speed you are now travelling at. I'm not a boy racer and getting from 0-62 in 5 seconds doesn't interest me but the only time I do notice the CVT 'problem' is starting up a steep hill from a stand still and that doesn't bother me one iota. I think it's a case of technique. I do really enjoy your reviews BTW.
Appreciate your review of the RAV4 P. I own one here in the US, and absolutely love it. I have 2 Level2 EVSEs in my garage, and plug in the RAV as needed. I have 3k miles on mine, have filled the fuel tank just once.
I regularly see an EV range of 50 miles, combined range of 600 miles.
I have zero issues with the ECVT. Around town, I keep mine in Eco mode, which gives me plenty of pickup. If I need more power to merge onto the freeway, I don’t have to change a thing. It has plenty of power. Frankly, have never put it into Sport mode.
All in all, very pleased with my purchase!
I’m really glad you have had this car as a long-termer. I’m now a big fan of Toyota, having a Corolla with the 2.0 Hybrid, after 5 years with a Golf R, and numerous GTIs prior. The ‘CVT’ transaxle is great - as you say if you drive it within its comfort zone. The big thing for me is the reliability, and the quality of the dealer network - this is a car you can run for 15 years, with just basic maintenance, no water pump leaks, coil pack failure etc.
This word reliability is often forgot when reviewers review cars. For a lot of people (especially as a family car) it’s at the top of the list way above the 0-60 time or how fast the boot shuts. Tue average RUclips review will compare a Toyota to some French or German car which you can’t really compare because of the reliability aspect.
My next door neighbour has an S reg corolla. The only real repair has been just brake discs and pads. Still has buttery smooth drive. Smoother than my 2 years old VW Tiguan.
As has now been pointed out, the transmission on the RAV4 PHEV isn't an old style CVT gearbox. Its far more advanced and efficient than that. I have been driving the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV for 7 years , which also has the same electronic multimode transmission as the RAV4. It provides a continuous and seamless drive, very smooth and ,yes, when under hard acceleration or going up steep hills, the engine revs go up. But its designed to do that. The engine isn't under strain. And to be honest, it rarely happens in most normal driving situations.
Very well done video Sir Pete!!
Just have to state that I’ve always appreciated your genuineness and honesty with all the car reviews you do. It’s part of the charm of your channel. Most youtubers don’t give completely honest reviews and I feel you always do.
Also here’s a we’re are you and what are you doing moment for ya: I listened to this whole video well shoveling my drive way that was covered in a foot and half snow ❄️ now that I’m done with that its off to get ready for a weekend long celebration for my wife’s 30th b day! Have a great weekend everyone!!
Thank you sir,enjoy your weekend too.Shoveling snow is hard work.
Weather looks amazing where you are mate. Happy Birthday Mrs C 👍
I’ve had mine for 18 months. I love it! I get 47-52 miles of range and have fueled up about 10 times total. I live in a mild climate which raises the range.
Nice 👌
The noise of the CVT is a very minor drawback. You can live with it. The car offers practicallity, fuel economy, some off road capability, a spare tyre, and a strong motor.
i want this with a hinge wheel on the back
And it cost 10k or more than comparable vehicles. Toyota can kiss my ass until they update their features to match competitors. They have the most lacking features, the worst warranty of all the manufacturers except Chrysler, and they are still priced like they have it all. Unless you get the most expensive models they suck.
@@EtherealoNe1 The competitor you're comparing it too are ? Renault ? Go take a look at the prices at Mercedes GLB for example or any other fancy name Audi/BMW...we'll speak after that.
@@colonelcccccuh how about every crossover and mid sized suv? Do you live under a rock? Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, Honda, etc. all have great options for less.
A Toyota Rav isn’t in the same class as any bmw , Mercedes’ or higher end suv lol.
As a RAV 4 (2021) owner, I have used it limited on light trails here in the UK and it is absolutely fine. Even in EV mode it can tackle some steep inclines. But it is NOT an off roader. You're correct. But it can go off road if really needed.
I love the looks and it does stand out in a very striking way, IMHO. I think the exhaust thing is subjective, I like them as they are. The tailgate is okay, it is a bit slow but I can live with that. Love the bicycle thing as I also have a bike so that is a strong point for me too, so well done for illustrating this !.
The design by Toyota has given it a SUV look that ''means business''. The build quality, fit and finish is 100% top class. It may not compete with Land Rover or Volvo, VW etc. But it is snapping at their heels. I purchased a late 2021 model (basic spec but it has everything I need) with a silly low mileage and I bought it from a Toyota franchise near where I live so I have peace of mind that it is being serviced by them.
In the early spring / summer it will do 56 miles on EV . Yes 56 miles not 46 miles - it is that good. I have yet to go through winter with it, to be fair. I've not come across the sound thing when ''pushing on'' so for me no problem. I don't hear it. Arguably in ''sport mode'' it is being well, errr, sporty ? Arguably the noise might be for some a good thing. Not an issue for me. As also the infotainment system not an issue for me. To be fair the fact you say it like you think it is for you, that is being honest and that is all one can ask. So a great honest review. Well done PP 😀
Great review, unbiased, and fair. Some of us would consider buying the vehicles you review; just hearing your thoughts on the vehicle gives us a fairly good starting point.
Let's be honest: when you test drive a car from a dealership, you just don't get enough time with it to make a proper judgement . Keep it up mate 👍🏼 👌
Thanks mate 👍
I have a similar 2.5L in my Lexus RC. The revs of a CVT are the sounds of efficiency. Optimum torque and power at the time needed. No belts on an e cvt, it's a balance managed by motors and generators that manage the revs. Personally I like the system, wish my RC had plug in ability to. Car shoots off the line surprising many.
Absolutely love my RAV4 Prime. The so-called "CVT" is great and it does NOT have a rubber band and pulleys. It has planetary gears and is a brilliantly designed transmission. This transmission is used in the RAV4 Prime to maximize gas mileage and it is bullet proof. We are averaging over 90 mpg. and routinely get over 40 miles in EV range. We have timed 0-60 mph in 5.3 seconds. It is like a Chevrolet Volt on steroids, but with the added benefit of AWD and serious off-road capability. Fantastic vehicle.
I am a proud owner of Toyota RAV4 PHEV and after over 3,500 miles of driving I can confirm It's very comfortable and looks absolutely great just looking at it at your drive and at the shopping centre car park. On top of that, having leaned how to use hybrid cars, ( previously used CHR - 20,000 miles) I have no issue what so ever with CVT gearbox you're complaining about, rather it enables me to get on average 90+ mpg on my 60 mile daily commute, utilising EV/Hybrid modes. And the RAV4 is fast, and I mean really fast!. You are warmly invited to join me on one of my commute to see how to get the best out of 2022 Toyota RAV4 PHEV. Thanks very much for your great videos and honesty, but given the choice, I will buy the RAV4 again for it's looks, comfortably, efficiency, power, and above all reliability.
I have a Rav 4 Hybrid. The CVT box doesn't cause me concern, infact I embrace the sharp rise in revs when booting it in sports mode. Great review, honest and open
It's just the so called (media) experts who just go on and on about it.
Actually, the Toyota e-cvt is purely mechanical with an electric motor through a planet gear, which is very durable and brilliant. The speed difference between the electric motor and the input shaft is what's doing the gear changes. So no chain or rubber band. If you run the car normally, the noise isn't really a problem. If you like sporty driving, it's the wrong car anyways.
The future hybrids with more electric power and bigger batteries will probably do ok with a small ice engine and a cvt. Maybe a lockup function would be a solution.
I have the Rav4 and that CVT noise you don't like is the noise that I do like. Each to their own I guess. I love it when I accelerate and the sound kicks in. It's sort of comforting. It takes away the boredom of a normally very quiet car.
Indeed 👍
I'm a canyoneer in Arizona and I have had my 2020 regular Rav4 3 wheels on and one off the ground over a foot on a pretty rough eroded AZ road. It performed like a champ, but, and it's a big but, I had TOYO TIRE OPEN COUNTRY A/T II and not the road tires. No lift, no larger rims. Just the size that would fit on the original size rims, so traction and these things really are pretty sweet.
I had to trade it in for a Prius Prime to afford to see my kids when I finally got more time with them (long story). I LOVE the Prime, but now with the RAV4 Prime here in the US being more available, I am excited to get back into a canyoning machine and the 2024 Prime RAV4 has a bunch of stuff that make it a great camping and adventuring machine that doesn't burn so much fuel.
I also did the Cornwall trip in my HEV RAV4 over the New Year and agree that it is a comfortable long distance cruiser. This is my third Toyota HEV (a Prius and a C-HR) and agree that the CVT is very marmite. I have learnt to drive around it and it does prefer to be driven in a more laid back manner, with the extra performance in reserve. I presume that Toyota has set it up this way so that the engine runs in its most economical range, it does run the Atkinson cycle for this. It would be interesting to drive a hybrid with a more conventional automatic gearbox, but this will be academic in a few years when we all move to BEVs anyway. I just hope that they've added a few more charges points in Cornwall and elsewhere by then as when we stopped at Exeter services all the chargers were in use.
These cars are in high demand at the moment. Purchasers must wait two ++ months for delivery. Being able to take a test drive at many dealerships is very limited to non-existent. Hence, these on-line reviews are critical. I liked this reviewer's candor. It helped me latch onto the "CVT" debate. I frankly don't think it's a significant issue at all, but thank the reviewer for his apparently unbiased views.
I drove one for the first time today in and around West London, as an owner of previous extremely expensive luxury 4 x 4 cars i was shocked how lovely this car is, beautiful to drive, great rugged build, nice and very understated, super comfortable, i didn't notice any issues with the rubber band CVT gearbox but noticed its different to conventional, sadly its a very long delivery slot but I've ordered one.
Nice to hear. Watch my second video where I talk more about the eCVT gearbox 👍
ruclips.net/video/X_CxHjK1Cn4/видео.html
Great review, I have driven one this morning and am very impressed by it. Please note that this CVT of Toyota is not a mechanical CVT (which suffers from poor efficiency) but an electric CVT, its actually a great piece of innovation. The engines do not have a turbo but work with an Atkinson cycle to have best efficiency. They have an incredible peak efficiency of 40%. The electric CVT is a generator that let the engine spin up when more power is needed. Doesn't sound fantastic but it means that a cruising speed these engines are running at a low rpm as close to peak efficiency as possible. Just saying, don't to be compared with mechanical CVT, Toyota has really perfectionized this system and pusing for max efficiency. I am thinking of going to buy one.
Take a look at my follow up video to this…
ruclips.net/video/X_CxHjK1Cn4/видео.html
I watched a video from the RUclips channel "WeberAuto" called "Understanding The Toyota Rav4 Hybrid", where they extensively showed the inner workings of the e-cvt, front and rear. After watching I was a firm believer in the quality and reliability of the e-cvt. It didnt take me long to get used to the way it sounded. Had a 2018 Rav4 Hybrid. And 3 days ago, bought a 2021 toyota venza with the same platform. I love my new Venza...been averaging 41-45 miles per gallon so far.
Having owned a standard hybrid RAV4 for 9 months, I need to point out that none of the Toyota hybrids have a CVT gear box (cones and belts) they use a concept called ECVT which uses an electric motor and direct coupled gears to achieve variable gearing. They do this so the ICE engine can run in the most efficient mode possible for the power output.
I aggree it sounds odd when you put your foot down, but if you used a standerd gearbox your mpg would be worse for no gain in power. Having driven many thousands of miles the disconnected revs from pedal input doesn't bother me anymore, I just get between 44 and 52 mpg with good perfomance and great carrying capability e.g. 8 foot xmas tree inside.
This has been one of the best. I am not into supercars and even £40 K is now more than I can afford. I now own an ICE Outlander with a CVT. Yes, it does seem strange but I am no longer a performance driver so it's OK. An EV is a step too far for me so a PHEV would be a great answer to my needs but something I will probably never own. However, an honest assessment of this car is refreshing to see. The designers tend to be too close to a project to see what is wrong. There will be some motoring journalists who will praise the "King's New Clothes" so as to preserve their job. But a reality check may change the car industry for the better. Well done. 👍
Thanks 🙏🏻
I have never particularly enjoyed any type of automatic transmission (including the awful original CVT in a DAF) but in 2019 we were lucky enough to drive a Nissan Altima CVT from Harrisburg Pennsylvania up through the Canadian Rockies to the West Coast and back to Chicago, about 7000 miles. The transmission was an absolute delight and really well set up, with minimum “clutch slip noise” and always totally responsive. It was like always being in exactly the right gear for the desired response, from gentle acceleration in town traffic to frantic steep uphill overtaking. However the car was a 2.5 litre petrol not a hybrid which may be somewhat more of a challenge. BTW Love the channel.
I pick up a 22 plate premium version the same colour as yours on Saturday. I enjoyed your description of how the cvt system works and I now have a much better understanding of it. Thankyou
Glad it was helpful!
I had a Lexus IS300h for 4 years, basically the same engince as the RAV 4, but no plug in. You kind of adjust your driving style to a more relaxed style with the CVT, but it can be quite brisk especially from a standstill. The only downside I found was that sometimes in icy weather the braking could be a little strange, being rear wheel drive it would do the energy recovery so braking more on the rear until the system handed over to the proper brakes where you would expect a front bias, it would induce a skid quite easily albeit at a very slow speed. Overall a cracking car though I thought, effortless motorway cruiser.
Great video - I am on the wait list for a 2023 / 2024 model and a couple things to note / add to your video:
1) 2023 has an update to the infotainment system and has a digital driver display so much improved compared to the 2022 model
2) charging while driving is meant as a last resort - it should only be used when driving a highway speeds when the ICE is at its most efficient and not necessarily when going up hills unless absolutely needed.
As you indicated, it needs to be charged overnight and because it can be done on a standard 120V outlet, you can even charge while on vacation/ road trips if you can park next to your rental unit
Cheers!!
Great review as always. I am intrigued by these CVT transmissions and I think what you describe you hear under hard acceleration is what youngsters riding their rev ‘n’ go 50cc and 125cc mopeds sound like - they hit a constant sounding rev ‘limit’ but actually the engines is a peak power in its power band……….. Ask anyone who has ridden a Gilera runner fast and hard! Keep up the good work. 👍. PS I currently drive a BMW X1 with 190bhp diesel and auto transmission and can get 55-60 mpg on a long journey. I will test drive a Rav 4 PHEV and see for myself what it’s all about. I think it will suit my driving style. 🥴
Great review… can I just point out though that the gearbox is Toyota’s ‘e-cvt’ NOT a belt driven old school cvt and they use it in their hybrid drive train for it’s efficiency. I’m not an engineer but you look on line on RUclips there are some very good videos explaining how it works and it’s very clever and robust…… Anyway, I appreciate your honest reviews saying things as you find them. As someone who has recently traded my diesel Volvo XC60 with its ’geartronic’ auto box for the ‘self charging’ RAV4 hybrid, I find the CVT gearbox incredibly smooth and seamless in the way it drives. Now I always thought my Volvo’s gearbox was incredibly smooth but the RAV4 is an even quieter and smoother in normal driving, and I think that is the key here. Most people buying the RAV4 hybrid (either ‘self charge’ or PHEV) are not going to want to drive it like a sports car, they are simply going to want to waft along enjoying the comfort, (and it’s every bit as comfortable as the Volvo which is a great compliment) quiet ride and ultimately the great fuel consumption from what is a decent sized SUV. On the odd occasion when you need to put your foot down and use the performance to overtake etc, then yes it may get a bit ‘busy’ but it doesn’t detract from the other 99% of smooth quiet driving. For me personally I couldn’t justify the extra £10k for the PHEV over the ‘self charge’ and I love the fact that I can just drive and never give a thought to what the clever hybrid system is doing … until I stop at the pump to fill up and realise the great fuel consumption I’ve achieved 😊👍 ….. and PS, when I want sporty acceleration I just take the V8 SL500 out!! 😆
Thanks for this. I was trying to simplify things but thanks for the excellent explanation. As I said in the review, for town and relaxed driving this car is super smooth and I like it. It’s when you push on, go into charge mode or climb a steep hill the the high revving engine is not to my liking 👍
@@PetrolPed thanks I know it’s difficult keeping explanations simple. Like I said, great review as ever but just thought I’d let you know my thoughts. I think you’re right that hybrids are the way forward rather than full EVs with the current technology 👍
Toyota have been using this (non-pulley) type e-cvt since the first Prius in the 90s. It is a beautifully simply concept in the way it works. Very reliable. But I can understand why people don’t like it at first.
I find the best way to drive us in ECO mode, it reduces the way the engine seems to over rev when driving on the motorway when trying to maintain constant speed.
Having done 90000 miles in my 2018 RAV4, you get used to it, just drive more gently to get the best out of it.
The Suzuki Across version does have Eco Mode so I would think the Rav 4 does because they are virtually the same car.@@nicovl
I don't love the sound of a CVT, but I TRUST the engineering of this car. The gear driven E-CVT might be the longest lasting semi traditional transmission ever built, since it's just a beefed up version of the Prius transmission. That being said, I don't own a prime, and I'd need to live with it to see. But the benefits seem worth it.
I enjoyed your review thanks. Basically you're saying that the 30% you don't like is mainly the sound of the engine note. I've had mine (the Suzuki Across badge engineered equivalent) for about 3000 miles now and love it. I bought it because of the ecvt planetary/electric gearbox which, to my mind, removes all of the clutch/friction based compromises of alternative automatic gearboxes. It's designed to keep the IC engine within its maximum efficiency limited rev band as it's an Atkinson cycle. The combination of the two makes for very good mpg. If you want to cane it a bit (not the reason you bought one of these I suspect) then it'll raise the revs to a less efficient and noisier level. I do agree the infotainment system is dated, the cameras aren't the sharpest and the tailgate is slow. I'm also not entirely convinced that the collision avoidance feature works but how to test!? The real killer is £500 extra excise duty because it cost over £40k, if I'd bought the IC version I'd have avoided that - a perverse non-incentive from HMG.
Absolutely nobody is passing on this car because of the CVT, it's buttery smooth, efficient, and trouble free, after driving cars with CVT's I never want to go back, a multi speed tyranny makes total sense in a manual trans, but it's far more off putting when an auto jumps gears when it wants to, instead of when you want it to, with a CVT, it's just smooth accel/decel from 0-top speed.
Great review, very honest, as you can see from a lot of of the comments below, and also true of myself, I have gotten used to the CVT gearbox and while it was strange at the beginning, it works like a Swiss clock, and it never breaks down. I think most of your comments ( like the infotainment system and the CVT ) are a reflection of the conservative approach Toyota takes to cars. If it don’t break, don’t fix it. I have the hybrid AWD version, and if I compare to previous cars I have owned, the reliability is just stellar. Sure I would love the car with a traditional drive train, but if I get the traditional drive train, at traditional reliability, I probably would not be happy. Kinda like knowing there is a difference between what you need and what you want.
Unless they have a different CVT in the UK, the RAV4 Prime does not have a two cone CVT. It has a eCVT which uses a planetary gear with an electric motor controlling the sun gear and giving a CVT gearing action. I don’t think CVTs make any more or different noise than a automatic or a manual transmission. It just has no gear shifts. They sound the same in cars where they simulate gear shift (which probably reduces the fuel economy of a good CVT). In the car you have (top of the line) there are paddle shifters that would make it like a paddle shifted manual.
Please read my pinned comment 👍
Hi Pete. Having brought a CHR six months ago it is a vehicle you want to like. It rides like you are on a cloud and exactly as you say around town it is a fine vehicle. Out of town unfortunately it is a different story with the CVT gearbox being noisey and having to hear the constant high revs once conscious becomes a problem. I am hoping I will get used to it as the car otherwise is very good, The only thing as a general comment I find with my CHR is that modern driving demands limit the opportunities to drive it to obtain maximum mpg. For example pulling out of a junction or at a roundabout you have to accelerate quicker that the car would like so the engine immediately cuts in so immediately defeating the purpose.
I have a 2023 Suzuki Across which is basically a rav4 plug in hybrid with a different front valance and grill. It started showing 43 miles of EV range when i got it new Nov2023. Now in October 2024 it shows 69 … yes 69 miles of range and im easily getting 58-64 of those on the road, its showing 3.9miles per kwh long term average, incredible. When used as a pure hybrid with no battery ev assistance apart from the standard small hybrid battery it returns anywhere between 58-80mpg. This car is staggering, and the Suzuki rebadged version is wsy cheaper especially second hand than the Toyota badged version. Best car i have had in 40 years of some high end vehicles. It does EVERYTHING so well it gets undef your skin with its huge breadth of capabilities
Ive had this car for 12 months it is great ,yes there are niggles but overall it is brilliant, very quick also! Think phevs are best overall option at moment , we average over 199 miles per gallon.
Have owned a RAV 4 Hybrid for the last 2.5 years, loved it, one of the best cars I have driven. Now awaiting the arrival of the RAV 4 PHEV due April, looking forward to this too. Understand totally your comments regarding the so called noisy CVT side of things, but you do get used to this and it does not become an issue. This is Toyotas best selling car or was, we were lucky to be able to order our new one, for some reason you can't get them at all at the moment. Keeping fingers crossed that mine will appear in April!! P.S. knocking 30% of is a little steep, think it is easily 95%+ a brilliant car. Excellent review otherwise!
I did a follow up to this video all about the CVT gearbox 👍
Great review. As always I think it depends what you want from the car. Recently sold an outlander PHEV which has a similar noise when pushing on. But we are a two car family. For me the PHEV is the workhorse. It has to handle the school, dog(s), shopping, bikes, tip runs, holidays. It has to keep the cost down (tax,mpg) to free up funds for the second car. Also, if you have a significant other (who may not be interested in cars) it needs to be non-fussy and easy to drive and park. (You didn’t mention what Mrs Petrol Ped thought of the drive)
We were getting over 100mpg with the outlander phev because most of our trips were local and the wife loved how easy it was to drive and park.
On Cornish hills the car struggled badly with no battery charge and sounded very bad, even embarrassing, at times. I found it was essential to use charge mode which then gave it the necessary power for hills. Otherwise I learnt to accept the noise and drove around to avoid going into that rev range
My PHEV was 3 yrs old when I bought it so a lot cheaper than the RAV. I happily lived with the noise knowing that I would be paying 0 tax and (for my use case) getting > 99mpg.
To be fair it’s better than older automatics boxes which tended to have a mind of their own.
If you are a one-car family and you like driving you are probably better off with an estate.
I have a Corolla saloon having had a Prius before. Love the hybrid technology and mpg but agree that the CVT gearbox can make it sound like the car is blowing up! Great review by the way.
It's actually not the CVT that makes the engine sound like it's blowing up. It's a different valve timing used in hybrid engines, which makes them more fuel efficient, but means they only produce power at high revs. This is impractical in normal cars, but is fine in a hybrid because the electric motor can provide the low-end torque instead.
Thanks 👍
I really really wanted to like this car! Once again an honest appreciation and review of the car. I personally take a great deal of credence from your reviews, and they undoubtedly are becoming an integral part of my buying process. Thanks.
Wow thanks Nick. That’s great to hear 🙏🏻
i believe they're using the e-cvt due to the reliability it has over a normal automatic gearbox....the entire toyota brand is built on simplicity and reliability.
they could easily add a turbo to their 2.5L lineup and a ZF gearbox which would make the cars rockets + less noise but also way less reliable.
Surely since the CVT is so noisy when going up hill, and i know because ive tested the standard hybrid, switch it to EV instead and when you get to the top, switch it to engine mode. It feels quite obvious to me that you'd use the EV mode to do the accelerating and up hills, fuel/ hybrid mode for level road, and recharge mode when going downhill because it uses less fuel going downhill so may as well top up the battery from the engine. It depends on what route is being driven but I honestly don't see the cvt noise as being an issue if you engage more with the battery selection. But great video BTW I really want the pluggin Rav.
I have watched other RUclipsrs and my rule of thumb is that if in describing the car they fail to mention ANY negative to discount their opinion. Typically I have already read the written articles if it is a car of interest. In those cases the failure to at least discuss things that others see as issues is a deal killer in terms of my motivation to watch future videos. Even if the only negative is "I can't afford it" I want to hear the truth. I appreciate your videos because I do in fact trust your opinion and purchasing decisions I have made based on your recommendations have been consistently accurate.
Thanks KC 🙏🏻
A very well balanced review. Great for the consumer. Your points are all well made and very valid. I've had Toyota's and they are always well spec'd but a bit dull to drive in my opinion. Thanks Pete.
I had a Honda Civic 2018 1.5 turbo with a CVT, drove 74 000km. The "changing a gear" simulations were done quite nice and it was not annoying at all. Plus in city traffic the cvt was so smooth.
I watched a lot of R4P reviews, and you are the only one who touched on what I felt when I test-drove this car. I drive a 240-HP 3.0-Liter 6-Cylinder 2008 BMW, and I never hear or feel any revving when I accelerate. I went to test drive this R4P with strong intention to buy it, as I was expecting to be blown away by the 302-HP. But was annoyed by this revving noise when I tried to accelerate. I thought it was because the battery was empty (It was not charged at the dealership), so the car is only running on the 177-HP ICE, and that is why it was noisy.
As I am trying to try driving it again with the battery charged, but now, if your battery was charged when you shot this video, you are confirming the noise is attributed to the CVT, not a depleted battery.
👍
I love no gears. No clutches to wear. A standard auto is a timer set to fail based on use and time. The Ecvt's are very reliable. I can floor it off the line and I dont feel like a slipping a Dual clutch. Solenoids wearing. etc. No torque converters to fail. I happily hear a little drone of the engine with no shifts to jackrabbit start to the speed limit for the life of the car with no failures. Standard cars shift weird until they warm up as well. This is coming from a Prius which I beat the wheels off of. Tow 1000lb plus regular. 255k. Just drain and fill new fluid every 50k or so. Drives 100% the same. I have never had a regular auto feel the same for this long. Now if you are mostly highway miles there will not be much difference as the transmission will outlast the engine and body.
I had a Subaru Forester, for a few months, with a CVT gearbox and petrol engine. I found that a progressive press on the throttle was the the best way of getting good acceleration without the over-revving sound, sounding more like a normal geared auto box.
On our second rav 4 hybrid, to be honest you do get used to the cvt gearbox, because overall to many plus points about this car, and by the way it copes very well in snow and rutted countryside lanes as we live on a farm, overall good review.
Exactly 👍
Before upgrading to electric I owned a couple of hybrid Toyotas, a Prius then Auris. Fascinated to know how they worked I watched a few RUclips tear down videos.
The transaxle has under 30 moving parts compared to a few hundred in a torque converter automatic, and that includes the 2 electric motor/generators. The CVT is done via planetary gears. The noise is ‘unconventional’ however it’s a reason the system is so efficient. The engines revs immediately to where the power is and varies the gearing to match the road speed. Consequently the engine is always operating efficiently at maximum power rather than build up to power, gear change, build up again and so on. So, it’s a simple engineering solution that’s more efficient than the more complex conventional transmission. Also, as you point out lower manufacturing costs.
A PHEV is always going to be a compromise, neither a good electric or a good petrol car.
At £47k it’s an expensive car against the EV competition. Cost of ownership of a Model Y, ID4 or its VW cousins would probably be the same or less. Even the MG ZS, which you speak highly of, in its new 250 mile range evolution at £28k looks like a bargain in comparison. Not sure about the comparable fossil market.
To add to your good explanation: the valve timing is also different on hybrid engines (modified Atkinson cycle) to further increase mpg. The down-side is a massive loss of low-end torque. So the engine has to rev much higher than you expect for typical uses. I really like how responsive the electric CVTs are, but I too dislike the sound of a spuriously high-revving engine.
Thanks for this. I have no doubt that it done for a very good reason as Toyota are masters of engineering. I just don’t get on with the driving experience 😢
@@PetrolPed I agree, a car enthusiast might not like the noises coming from the car and the way it behaves. However, would the typical buyer of a reasonably anonymous SUV in this price bracket care that much. I’d imagine other features of the car such as the practicality are more important.
I have had multiple vehicles from the late 1960s fitted with CVT. My first cars were from DAF (33, 44, 55) and subsequently others with a variety of CVT variants. The DAF CVT had a simple selector, it was forward to go forward, back to go back and in the centre was neutral. The great advantage of the CVT is that you stay in the peak power range while the vehicle accelerates, hence the sound of the engine revving. In terms of performance the early DAF cars which had small engines (33 was 746cc twin cylinder air cooled, 44 was 844cctwin cylinder air cooled, and the 55 using a Renault engine was 1108cc 4cyl water cooled). I had all three variants over a period of about 6 years, took them to Europe and cruised them at 100mph all day long.
My more recent experiences have been with Nissan X-Trail and Qashqai models, my current drive is a 2021 X-Trail 2.5 litre CVT 2 wheel drive Model ST-L. The major difference these days is that there is a 'manual selector' that has 6 pre-defined ratios or settings. I use both fully automatic and if the driving conditions require it I will use the manual selector. In most cases however I prefer to use the CVT as a fully automatic piece of kit, a job it does really well. The system has the option to use engine braking for hill descents and this is quite good at maintaining the speed without the necessity for braking.
In summary: I have driven many cars over the last 55 years, small engines to large V8s, manual and automatic, I have driven in Europe on autobahns, in England on B class roads and motorways, in Australia on dirt roads, B class roads, and freeway/toll-ways.
The seamless driving achieved by CVT wins out overall. they give linear acceleration, absolutely 'jerk free' and in my experience good fuel economy. Currently my X-Trail 2.5 ST-L CVT returns 7.9 Litres per 100 klm in the city (Urban) and around 5.7 klm for country/main road.
I did enjoy the video, and look forward to your review after you have lived with the CVT for a few more months. 🙂
Best regards from Australia
Gerry
Thanks Gerry 👍
I've been driving a Corolla with a CVT for about 18 months having been driving DSGs.
Unlike other gearboxes, the revs tell you how much power you need/have. Put your foot down and they rise to 3000 rpm. Mash it right down and they rise to 5000. After a while you get used to it.
If you don't like it turn up the music.
Good plan 👍
Hi - as an addition to my previous comment:
I've read that the paddles on the steering wheels are just for upshifting and downshifting the gears when the petrol engine is running. On my Across at least, when running in EV Mode, they DO alter the level of slowing down and regeneration - which I like even if it's pretty much the same as achieving the same effect by regenerative braking using the foot pedal.
Very nice video of all the goods and bads of this great car.
Yes, it is expensive, but I find it to be the perfect compromise between ICE and BEV cars. Especially in my case, where the local charging infrastructure is non-existent.
I'm expecting my RAV4 PHEV (probably identical trim level to yours) to finally arrive next month.
I believe Toyota's eCVT advancements and overall drivetrain complexities are optimizing the driving experience around fuel efficiency, rather than trying to simulate the "traditional engine revving".
I guess the paddle shifters are just a cool looking accessory? 😄
Far too enthusiastic about the rubber handles and knobs Pete.......😁
😂😂😂
Great video. Have a Rav4 Hybrid on order (for a while now) and should get by end Feb 22. Meanwhile have driven the Prius, CHR and Yaris hybrids through a local car club. The CVT on the motorway is OK until reaching an incline. There are a couple of steep motorways in Scotland! It gets very noisy trying to maintain speed. I find that if I lift off slightly and then gently reapply the accelerator, it prompts a change of "gear ratio" which can help. Keep up the good reviews 👍
I have had mine nearly a year now, just the hybrid version in Dynamic trim and think its a good car. Agree with you re entertainment being poor but it’s really easy and intuitive to use. For nav I do switch to apple. The CVT is not great re the noise but I tend to waft along most of the time with the radio on so not an issue. To be fair most autos I have driven over the last few years have issues. DCTin my Kia Sportage was great once moving but pulling away was sometimes a little odd. I guess after a year of ownership and just over 12k miles I don’t even notice the gearbox/ noise. What I have noticed is the drop in fuel consumption which I can only imagine is down to E10. We have gone from 59mpg down to 51mpg since September!. Great review as always.
Good point, E10 is rubbish, we are getting less of a product but at the same price or more
Maybe the colder weather brings down the battery range. Also if you changed the tires to a lower drag type tire you will experience lower gas mileage.
The most important thing is that the cvt is the most reliable gearbox in this model and it’s just a case of getting used to it. Zero problems, turn the music up… problem solved 🤓
I'm not a huge fan of CVTs, they have kept me from buying Toyota's for years. But this car's e-CVT isn't bad at all. If you don't accelerate hard in hybrid mode, you don't hear it, and you obviously never hear it in EV mode. I enjoyed my test drive a great deal. I test drove it in very adverse weather conditions, basically a blizzard with fair amount of snow on the road, and the AWD system handled it well. I was so impressed that when I got home I ordered one.
We’ve narrowed our choice for a new car down to either a Rav4 HEV or a Rav4 PHEV, so this video was very useful, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I bought a new Auris hybrid excel! Brilliant car except for that CVT which is basically the same! I found that I just changed my driving habits completely as I really didn't like that sound of a stressed engine! I got used to it and accepted that a light right foot was de'riguir. 🙄🤔👍
Yep, you can adapt your driving technique to maximise how the car works 👍
That CVT gearbox would be a deal breaker for me too. Reminds me of CVT autos from the 90s 😭. Good looking car though! Great honesty as always ped 👍
Great review! I have not driven the Rav4 Prime yet but my Honda Clarity has seemless transition from EV mode to Hybrid mode, sadly, the Honda Clarity was only available in North America from 2018 to 2021. On my long trip from Vancouver to Calgary I got 56 mpg after the EV range of 105 km was depleted and I was in HV mode which also charged the battery to 50%. I think Honda was losing a lot of money on the Clarity but I always plug it in my home wall box so I virtually never go to a gas station unless I am going out of town. When I bought my Clarity the combined instant rebate from the provincial and federal governments was $10,000, this was taken right from the invoice from the dealer so I don't have to apply for the rebate after I paid for it. In general, it is a great PHEV but it was hard to find at the dealer when it was for sale especially in Provinces where there was no provincial rebates to sweeten the deal. The RAV4 Prime is hard to find and you have to order it and wait 8 months for it to arrive. But the PHEV is the only way to go at least for the next few years as there is really no infrastructure to support an EV unless you are on the Tesla charging network.
Thanks for this 👍
Have been really looking forward to this video….. and I’ve made the magnificent 7 .. win win 🏆
Boom 💥
I have owned a 2012 Honda Insight and my mom owns a 2015 Toyota Yaris Hybrid. The CVT gearbox in the Toyota is widely regarded as the best of all the CVT gearboxes. We have to remember that we don't buy hybrids for their performance and thus shouldnt drive them, thinking they should put our pants on fire with their performance.
Sensible
I had a Prius+ issued to me as a company car, think this uses same CVT type gearbox as the RAV 4 in your review. Totally agree about over-revving / clutch slipping experience, hated it initially. Now. after covering 49k miles since April 2019 I've just got used to it - suppose it's just a compromise as part of the overall driver experience for the car. Great review - was thinking of RAV 4 when I get chance to replace my car.
I own (in fact my wife) the 2017 Rav4 hybrid. It's not as good and powerful as the new, but it's a very cool car. I also had to get used to the CVT. I also wondered why not put a ZF gearbox, or a dualclutch. But it works very smoothly and in practice, we are not very often in high revs.
But it's true that alongside the Rav4, I have a BMW M340i which offers me another experience when I feel like it.
Great review. I get 45-50 miles of EV range on mine, not 40. Also, coming from a number of Toyota/Lexus hybrids, I am very happy with its transmission system (not quite a traditional CVT): Toyota uses this transmission for its fuel economy on HV - which is class leading. I value fuel economy over noise, so not an issue for me. Out of interest, anyone out there with a RAV4 PHEV heat exchanger noise issue in cold weather?
Yes, an understanding of how it works goes a long way towards getting accustomed to the high revs and related noise that the small _engine_ makes! It should be no more annoying than the small exhaust pipes (LoL) when you understand that it is normal for this powertrain.
I have the hybrid CHR that I really like it, was thinking about getting the RAV4 hybrid this year thanks for the review 👍🏻
Great review as always. I watched before I bought ….. and now, after I bought …. As I’ve recently bought the 2023 version of this after a remapped BMW X3 M40i … it’s a bit of a change to say the least but I love it ! You hit the nail on the head with mostly great except the gearbox and infotainment, They have replaced the infotainment for 2023 and it is hugely better. The car overall is so smooth and quiet in EV and hybrid, so comfy, that I can forgive the quirky CVT which I did have in a 71 plate Yaris so did actually know what to expect. My driving 90% of the time doesn’t need any more than a squirt of acceleration these days so the noise I can live with and laugh when it does it … as it is still pokey and 300hp ! It does shift when it wants but stopping is more of an issue than the BMW was. The economy is great and it is a lovely place to be for a normal if not spirited drive. I miss my X3 M40i but not the fuel bills one bit . The RAV4 phev is a lovely car and a ten year UK warranty was what swung it too. My battery is currently showing 51 miles purely electric so I wonder if they have slightly updated it for 2023 ?
Great to hear 👍
So let me see. You've either got an ICE car where you are dragging a heavy battery pack around or an EV where you are dragging around an ICE engine, gearbox and fuel tank. Hmm. That said, my wife's Honda Jazz ehev, which is a hybrid, will do 70+ MPG if treated gently and 60+ MPG if not thrashed. I'd rather go BEV, but as a pensioner, I just can't afford the upfront costs. The Jazz also has a CVT box, but it only starts to annoy if pushing the car very hard. The transition from EV mode to ICE assisted is very smooth if, as I have said, you do not push the car hard, but as I tend to drive with a gentler right foot than 20 years ago, this seldom becomes an issue. Great and honest review, as always , Pete.
Thanks 👍
I test drove RAV4 PHEV 2 weeks ago, I didn't notice the CVT Problem you are taking about, I will try again
Try harder acceleration or find a big hill. That’s when it happens most 👍
@@PetrolPed
I drove another one today, you are right it is annoying, it seems to come up more when the battery is empty.
Since 2001, I’ve been driving Toyota Hybrids. I have no issue with the transmission in my RAV4P at all. I love my Prime.
AS mentioned before I drive a RAV 4 Hybrid 2021 for almost a year it has 25,000 km at the moment . My car has a complete different infotainment system 12”’ touch screen and no buttons . Its called Drive+ 2.0 . I live in Taiwan . I enjoy my Rav and it gives me what I want . Thank you for your review . CVT no problem for me car very responsive , and I drove PDK before .
Another issue to mention, is that you have to drive it at least once a week , the other day did not use it for more then a week , and it did not start anymore!
Apparently battery is small and drains in one or the other way . But a jumpstart helped !
You should learn about the CVT. It uses a planetary gear set with one part connected to the engine and another part by the motor/generator with the third part connected to the drive line. There are no “cones and rubber bands”. Perhaps you could learn how it works and do a video to explain it. It is clever but simple and with an understanding of the workings in the various modes you may enjoy this part of the technology a little more?
Please read the pinned comment 👍
💯
Currently got exactly the same model on a four day test. Haven’t probably got enough time to really test everything to the max. Initially though my thoughts are great internal space, high quality interior, very comfortable, punchy engine / electric combo quicker than my BMW for a big car it hustles, gearbox doesn’t bother me (I haven’t noticed a problem albeit I’m coming from a manual) . First impressions I could live with this car long term.
I agree a CVT box us a pain. My Honda Hybrid and both my Ford Hybrids, had one, and I agree with you it sounds like the engine was straining. As you say, no noise in electric mode....
Thank you for giving an honest review, some guys love every car they drive to the extent I start thinking there must be some incentive for them to do that
For me you only have credibility if you can talk about the good as well as the bad and guess what…Toyota are still talking to me 😜👍
Ped you are absolutely spot on with your appraisal of the RAV 4. I have the Honda CRV e hybrid - same issues and it drives me mad on motorways especially when accelerating so much so I’m selling it despite it being comfortable, spacious and great around town. I think I am going to look at the Sorento - if I can get one!!
Thanks 👍
Thank you for the video, just a simple comment related with CVT... I'm the current owner of a Lexus IS 300h and I love the CVT in these powerful cars ;-)
I’ve grown to love it 👍
Excellent coverage of daily living with this car. It has tremendous benefits, and I think that most buyers don’t give a hoot about the CVT noise, even if they noticed it. Keep in mind that you are likely to be biased towards high performance cars, manuel gear boxes, etc - but this is a mass-market practical family car that you made super-compelling in your review 😊
ITS not the same CVT, that they use in the other Toyota's. It's a planetary gear box.
Great review, really useful. I drive an Ix3 and I no longer want the stress of range and public charger anxiety, so I'm after a nice phev.
You need to watch WeberAuto analysis of the eCVT, no rubber bands in the Toyota implementation. It's an amazing design with two electric motors and a planetary gear set. Once you understand that, you can appreciate the way the engine stays in its most efficient RPM and transfers torque to the drive gears. It's cool.
I did after I made this video and then made a follow up video admitting I got it wrong 😜😂👍
The only gripe I have about any car is where the two exhaust tips poke out the back. I do think aggressive tips can look more stylish with some body/bumper enhancement to defuse the stuck out tips. Just wanted to get that in the open! Totally with you on this aspect of a car's body profiling.
Excellent review and good food for thought, iv got a test drive for one of these on Monday and this has been a real help. A review of the Tiguan PHEV would be a good one to see how an engine of smaller capacity compares (1.4) when it comes down to usability and practicality.
Let me know how you get on. Important to make up your own mind 👍
After the test drive I must say this car really does grow on you as you mentioned in your review. Once we spent a little time with the vehicle the huge list of good points far outweigh the lacking infotainment and CVT like gearbox. The more I think about the gearbox the more I make peace with it as it facilitates the most endearing feature of this vehicle which is the EV range and overall efficiency which a normal auto dual clutch box wouldn't.
In this price bracket the rav 4 is definitely the best PHEV for efficiency and features.
Thanks again for the review
A good honest review I can understand how that gearbox would irritate!!
My wish that it was just a electric car with big battery. Toyota makes a very nice car and I have got relatives that own a few different ones. They usually get the higher end models which make these smashing.