I have a Highlander Hybrid and I'm an engineer as well and I had the same exact reaction about how eCVT works when I finally understood it...genius! I watched that exact video you recommended about eCVT multiple times to get my head wrapped around it😅. You have to forget the traditional gear box system to fully understand and appreciate this, it is really brilliant.
The E CVT Transmission is clever. Whats not so clever is the rough running and load 2.5 l engine. They could insulate it better and to make it even more efficient, adding a turbo charger = more torque lower in the Rev range = quieter and more efficient!!
@@larsthor9691 they probably insulate it already on Lexus models that uses this same power train like the NX hybrid I believe and you are mainly using the electric motor on the low range from stop for quick acceleration.
I owned a Camry Hybrid and loved the drivetrain, because it’s variable you feel no shift points. I also like Toyota’s because I worked as an assembly specialist for them and and retired with 31 years. They make great vehicles and treated me well.
Great explanation! Toyota has really perfected the eCVT and reliable transmissions in general. All the misleading biased information about 'CVTs' comes from the lack of execution from other brands *cough* nissan. When you omit the belts and cones and replace those bits with a metal planetary gear set the rules change and Toyota has single handedly brought back the charm of what a true e CVT can be.
@@aamgdp CVT is a specific concept using belts. In contrast, Toyota's HSD works with planetary gears and NEEDS multiple motors to work. You wouldn't say that a dieselelectric locomotive or ship has a CVT, or even a helicopter with a secondary gas turbine, just because the RPM from the propulsion is decoupled from the power source.
Is Nissan’s transmission really that bad? ~I’m thinking about how their hybrid transmits power to the wheels. From the looks of it, seems to be a simpler mechanism where the ICE does not even send power to the wheels but rely solely on the electric motors.
In addition to my 500hp Audi Q7, and my motorcycles, I also have a Toyota hybrid. As an owner I must say that the use of the 'eCVT' label, by both Toyota and Ford for their planetary torque-split gearboxes, does them a disservice. Everyone sees the 'CVT' part, but very few understand that the 'e' stands for 'emulated'. It eliminates the direct linkage between engine and road speeds, just like a CVT, but is fundamentally different and shares absolutely nothing in common with the CVTs that so many cringe over. I applaud your taking the time to dig deeper, and learn more about how the system really works, as that lousy 'eCVT' label causes far too many to dismiss it out of hand. The Weber Auto recommendation was a fantastic choice, as he does a great job of demystifying planetary torque-split gearboxes. I'd highly recommend people take a look at Weber Auto's full catalog of videos to learn more about what makes their car work. 👍
@@FirstLast-tx3yj just had this channel pop up in my RUclips algorithm, so I apologize for my comment coming a year later😂. I test drove a Toyota Avalon, which does not have all-wheel drive and forgoes the rear motor and it was quite sluggish from a dead stop. Toyota's 4 cylinder all-wheel-drive hybrid platform has the feel and acceleration of a V6 due to the instantaneous torque provided by the electric motors mg2 & mg3/r.
Just a minor nit, the "e" in eCVT stands for "electronic" ( *electronic* Continuously Variable Transmission)... Where the "e" is really referring to the implementation and functions of the the electric motors (MG1 / MG2) which control the driveshaft speed, crankshaft speed, HV battery charging, reverse mode, (and on and on) in the transmission.
I’m 74 years and your video made me smile….. When I was 18 years I made a cycletour through Holland, the Netherlands. In the province Friesland impetus a young couple with a DAF ( Dafodle) , I believe that this was its name. That car had a CVT and DAF Eindhoven, from the van Doorn family, was the first CVT car in Holland and Europa.. It’s nice to see you so enthusiastic about the choice Toyota made with this car.. I will follow you because I like your style..
Daf advert back in the day, " Forward to go forward, back to to go back" Brilliant system. Similar system on early combine harvesters, to increase or decrease forward speed in very small increments.
I also watch videos on WeberAuto and it is explained there perfectly...the problem is that people simply refuse to understand the eCVT drive because they have been technically connected to a classic drive with a classic gearbox for decades...but this system works completely differently than a classic combustion engine with automatic gearbox. ...they don't understand it so they refuse it...if you understand this system you start to love it...what amazes me personally about this system is its absolute simplicity...when I technically compare it with DSG it is like the sun and the rainfall...
Understanding how it works do nothing and have nothing to do with people disliking it... What many people dislike about it is the lag you get, when stepping on the gas a little to accelerate it do not accelerate but the RPM goes up, then it slowly accelerates. And this feels not good at all, to make the car go you must step hard on the gas and there goes all the benefits of fuel mileage out the window...
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps the most impressive thing about this powertrain is that the electronics control both the engine and the transmission in every detail and the result is not just excellent fuel efficiency but also a very rewarding driving experience with a lot of flexibility left in the drivers control. As well as Weber's excellent explanation of the transmission there is also plenty of material about the highly sophisticated engine design which is itself a hybrid supporting both Atkinson cycle principles and more conventional operation as required. The electronics allow all these variations to operate seamlessly and the driver gets instantaneous response to the accelerator pedal.
Finally! Congratulations! You understand it now and admit you had it wrong in the first review. So many of your “professional” colleague reviewers still don’t understand it, only because they don’t take the time to really understand it. It just don’t fit their idea/concept how a car should sound and work. This makes your reviews so much more trustworthy. You have gained a subscriber. Thank you and keep on making these great video’s!
The motors don’t change direction to change from motor to generator, I doubt he really understands it. If MG1 needed to reverse direction, you would need to drive in reverse to get it to regenerate.
Understanding how it works do nothing and have nothing to do with people disliking it... What many people dislike about it is the lag you get, when stepping on the gas a little to accelerate it do not accelerate but the RPM goes up, then it slowly accelerates. And this feels not good at all, to make the car go you must step hard on the gas and there goes all the benefits of fuel mileage out the window...++
I appreciate your humility to acknowledge you didn't know enough in the previous review and instead of being defensive learned something new and shared it with others. Great explanation.
I enjoyed your first video on the RAV4 - thank you. I had already driven one but was concerned about the CVT transmission. I read loads about it and this morning took out another for a test drive for 2 hours specifically to come to terms with how it works. Like you, once I 'got it' it wasn't an issue at all - it's just a change of mindset about how the car is working. It really is very clever. Thanks for putting up this second video and for explaining how you have adjusted to it. Full marks for revisiting the CVT issue. I've just ordered a RAV4 as a result of my drives and your clear videos have been a real help. Thanks again.
An excellent simplistic explanation. I recently traded in my beloved 9.5 years old LR Discovery 4, which I owned from new. I purchased a late 2021 registered Toyota Highlander Hybrid (not a PHEV) now discontinued here in the UK and which is, I think, basically a RAV4, albeit with 7 seats. The differences for me were, initially at least, confusing, for a 70 years old retired engineer. When I bought the car I hadn't realised just how radically different it truly is. Very smooth, very quiet in operation, with that high rev surprise. I had to investigate further. From an engineering perspective, what Toyota have achieved is stunning! I think many folk, unless they have an engineering background, or an interest in engineering and how things work, will not appreciate just how revolutionary this design is. Because of my background I am well aware of planetary gearboxes, motors and generators etcetera, but the design and innovation work on this combined concept is nothing short of amazing. I'm still learning about this system, but I now believe that this really has the potential to replace the current mania for pure EVs. It's a shame that many people will only appreciate it from a fuel and emissions saving perspective. I, for one, am now a convert to the hybrid. Thank you.
I’ve been driving Toyota hybrids for the last 16 years including the last 10 months with a RAV4 Prime. It’s good to see you correct your understanding of the hybrid drive system, thank you. One small nitpick, the mg2 alone will only power the car to 84 mph not 124 mph.
I arrived at this information because I own one. 83 mph is the limit for EV only, at which point, the gas engine comes on and will power it to a top speed of 118 mph. No Prime goes 124 mph. The gas only version of the Rav4 will hot 124 mph though.
Evening all , six months ago I bought a GR Yaris and on an impulse bought a hybrid Yaris too , first impression was this gearbox is weird but once you dive it and get used to it it’s actually not that bad and as a bonus the economy was astounding ! so just traded it in for a new Yaris Cross which is actually a lot quieter… thank god ! Oh and six months later still totally blown away by the GR , can’t stop smiling when I drive it !
Good on you for properly reviewing an eCVT vehicle. Too many reviewers do not know how it works including one American who claimed the new Prius did not accelerate quickly enough,whilst not looking at the speedo, presumably listening to the engine as you might with a manual box.
I picked up my new Corolla GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid one month ago. It is the first CVT transmission vehicle that I have used. I quite like the roar you get on acceleration, then the quietness you get when cruising. You can barely detect when the engine cuts in after driving on EV only. My wife loves driving it too, so happy days.
I have a 2019 Prius Prime, which uses the P-610 e-CVT (the baby brother to the P-710 in the Rav4 Prime in this video). Toyota's HSD transaxles are really good technology, very reliable, and they last a very long time if you just change the oil and coolant at the recommended intervals. They are much simpler internally than a conventional automatic or belt-drive CVT, and there's not much that can go wrong with them within the normal life of a car (250,000 miles). I'm not counting the traction battery, of course - the battery will probably need replacement at 120,000 miles - but the internal components of the transaxle and power inverter/converter are generally good for 250K. And the operating cost for gasoline and home charging on a plug-in Hybrid make them pretty easy on the wallet. PHEV's occupy that middle ground between conventional vehicles and pure battery-electrics, with all the best qualities of both, if not the 240+ mile electric range of a Tesla, Bolt, or Leaf. As for high-revving: My Prius Prime, in Hybrid mode, cruises at 55 mph with the gas engine running at 1200~1300 rpm, and it's virtually silent. Climbing steep grades on a freeway, say 6% (that's 6 feet of rise per 100 feet, or 3°26' if you like angular measure), at 55 mph, the engine will be running between 2400 and 3200 rpm, depending on state of charge in the battery and how heavily loaded the car is. The computer that's controlling everything will never allow the gas engine to rev past 4,200 rpm, which is the torque peak - revving it any faster will not gain you any faster acceleration. The low torque peak speed is a consequence of the Atkinson cycle; you sacrifice top end power for better fuel economy and efficiency. At engine speeds above 2500 rpm, the engine noise becomes more noticeable, but since the car is only that noisy on steep hills and hard accelerations, and very quiet most of the rest of the time, in my opinion, the Prius and Rav 4 Hybrids and Rav4 Prime are among the smoothest and quietest cars with a gas engine that you can get. Pure EV's are quieter, but can't match the 550+ mile driving range of a Prius or Rav4 Plug-in hybrid. And that's 550 miles year round: summer or winter, rain or snow, hot or cold. Pure EV's often see their driving range cut in half if the temperature falls below 5°C. To elaborate on the explanation of this Rav4's drivetrain: The planetary gear he refers to is the "Power Split Device" in the heart of the transaxle. The MG1 motor is splined to the central Sun gear. The MG2 motor is splined to the outer ring gear of the PSD and to the differential. The gasoline engine is splined to the planetary gear carrier. The computer that's controlling the powertrain looks at the position of the throttle pedal, the car's speed, and the state of charge in the traction battery, and if the vehicle is in Hybrid mode with the gasoline engine running, it will first decide what RPM is most efficient for the gas engine. It will send fuel to the engine, and electric power to the MG1 motor, is a proportion that causes the engine to deliver the desired amount of power at the proper engine rotation speed that matches the vehicle speed. It does this by causing the MG1 motor to spin faster, or slower, or even in reverse, depending on the speed of the vehicle. Before the availability of small yet powerful computers in the late 1990's, the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive would have been impossible. The computer that accomplishes all of this magic is reading dozens of sensors and making thousands of decisions every second as to how to allocate gasoline to the engine and power flow to the two motors and the traction battery.
Pity all the other reviewers haven’t owned up to not knowing how brilliant the E CvT is, well done sir, I only wish the plug in hybrid was available in Australia, so much for our politicians being seriously concerned about the environment.
Best description of Atkison Cycle I’ve heard or read about. I drive a Rav 4 hybrid, not the plug in type. It is an amazing vehicle. Engineering is really impressive. Thank you
Correction regarding motor/generator mode: Whether it operates as a motor, or generator, has nothing to do with the direction of rotation of its shaft; both modes are available with both shaft directions. The mode is determined solely by the direction of current flow, i.e., current polarity, versus the voltage polarity. A motor/generator can change from one mode to the other, with no change in its shaft speed. All of the "magic" happens in the electronic controller, which sets the polarity and magnitude of current. As an engineer, I truly appreciate the novelty and cleverness of the Toyota hybrid design. I wish it was not referred to as e-CVT, though, because such a name is misleading and doesn't do the system justice. None of the power transfers within the system rely on friction.
Thanks for your honesty. CVT transmissions have caused confusion with many people who are confused by the engine revs. It does take some time to get used to the way they operate compared with normal gearboxes. The Toyota system is very clever and could well be the direction we need to go during the transition to full EV. Thanks again, a great video. Gerry in Australia.
@@miltechmoto essentially a CVT will give the driver an experience not achieved in standard gearboxes. It will find peak torque and the car can remain there whilst it accelerates. This is similar to the power delivery by EVs, albeit not so brutal. In other words a CVT has one effective gear just like an EV. Yes there are various CVT boxes available and depending on the manufacturer and the software that they have, the may behave differently.
Good explanation, been driving Toyota hybrids for a while now . Until you know how they work unlike CVTs of old you come to appreciate how good they are and how clever Toyota are bringing this to market and being successful
It is a great skill to explain the complex in a concise and understandable way, thanks Pete. I’m 2,500 miles into RAV4 PHEV ownership and loving it. You have to drive in a manner that suites the car, there ‘s no point hustling it. When I switch to my Alpine or Caterham then I have to recalibrate quite a bit!
Correct. 3 things Toyota hybrids doesn’t like and best to avoid: 1. Hard acceleration 2. Extreme stopping 3. Constant fast driving Build for smooth pleasurable everyday drive , efficient and reliable cars. 👍
We are @15600 miles on our R4P and this is the very best auto SUV we have ever owned. It took us about 1500 miles to figure out the trans and the ice setup. We average 3.2 miles per kilowatt hour for a range of 44- 50 miles electric. On lever ground @65-75 mph we have surpassed 42 miles per gal in straight hybrid mode. There are additional driving modes in the “S” mode for a real thrill in very steep hills. S1 thru S4 are under drives for steep hills and S5- S6 are near normal driving. We have owned 23 new cars from Toyota Corollaries to even a Turbo Supura and this thing is faster then all of them. ( turbo Supura was a wheel spinner) . No faults yet.
@@kroberts7576 the S mode does increase revs but this also allows better road feel and dynamic braking. Steep hills seem much more controllable in S2-3 at lower speeds especially on twisting steep roads at 25-40 mph.
Wow, glad you’re not just another basic motoring journalist. In the Lexus NX phev which is the same tech as this, the noise isn’t much of an issue as it’s got really good sound dampening.
Excellent video, thank you. I have a 2019 RAV4 hybrid Excel and love it. Before that I had a 2017 RAV4 hybrid and Toyota have improved on each gen. I have got used to the higher revs and don't notice it. Toyota are now offering a 10 year warranty providing the car is serviced by themselves each year. The ecvt is near enough bullet proof. I wish I could afford the PHEV but it's a little over my price point. Thank you for your comments.
@@kencatchpole5063 yep same ecvt. Every thing is the same apart from a bigger battery and an upgraded inverter to push more power to mg2 and the rear motor. This gives a 301 hp to the 219 hp of the regular hybrid.
I recently test drove a Lexus UX with a CVT box. I was very wary before the drive but it is perfect for that kind of vehicle. It was a lovely smooth drive and I couldn’t even feel the engine kick in and out. Great in town and busy traffic. Smooth at speed. My wife even ordered one to replace her Mini Cooper S!
A couple days ago I wanted to understand more about the eCVT in my 2019 RAV4 XSE Hybrid, and watched that same video by WeberAuto. Your video popped on my radar today, and within a few minutes I KNEW that it was his video that made you as excited (as I now am) to tell people about how COOL and BRILLIANT this transmission is. Between the MG1, MG2, and a few gears, I think there are a total of ~8 moving parts in the transmission -- and no heat generating, transmission destroying, "flexible metal belt" garbage like an old-school CVT. Unless someone somehow comes up with something simpler that works just as well, I could easily see this style of transmission be the standard for all hybrids.
Very good, simple explanation. Only part I would add is that for any planetary gear set if two of the three components move at the same speed it effectively locks the gear set so you get 1 to 1 ratio - so in the rav 4 at 1 to 1 engine ratio MG1 must match the engine speed.
I would strongly recommend watching the WeberAuto video. I watched that before I bought a Prime as I wanted to understand if the technology was new and potentially less reliable - it is not actually new and I believe it to be very reliable. To really understand the Toyota eCVT you also how a planetary gear works. There are lots of videos for this, but in a nutshell for a planetary gear to transfer power you need to hold one of the three gears (in the planetary gear configuration) in a fixed position. Automatic transmissions have a series of planetary gears where hydrologic clutches hold various gears fixed in to give the desired gearing. The brilliant aspect of the eCVT is rather than hold a gear fixed, MG1 controls the sun gear to create a CVT like performance. It also only uses a single planetary gear, as opposed to three or more in a typical automatic transmission. I should also add, thanks for correcting your previous error. Too many RUclipsr's do not do that.
Thank you for the clarification. Very helpful! We are trying to decide between the HEV and PHEV versions of the Rav4. We we’re leaning towards the HEV simply because we know we won’t always have access to charging, but now we know the car can charge the battery (albeit with a higher fuel consumption) that’s swayed things back in favour of the PHEV - which is more appealing because it has a few more features (such as a HUD).
Thankyou so much for this video. You have used my exact words when I have been complaining to my wife as the passenger regarding my Rav 4 Hybrid, that the revs have been rising with little progress forward. I was convinced that the auto gearbox was effectively slipping but clearly did not understand how these motors work. Things have advanced a lot since the old auto boxes obviously. I now no longer need to pester my Toyota Dealer, convinced there was a problem. My mind is at rest. Thanks again.
Good video ped - and it’s important for people to realise how clever these systems are (yet so reliable). Couple of errors I picked up on (only minor). MG2 doesn’t run in reverse to charge (it’s meshed directly to the drive wheels remember), it just drags to regenerate. MG1 doesn’t do re-gen braking, however it can be turned by the ICE to generate electricity. If ICE is generating while your driving, MG2 is driving, whilst ICE / MG1 are generating. You can’t use the ICe to contribute to acceleration if MG1 is generating, as MG1 would have to be turning the sun gear to provide the variable ratio.
Just to add, MG2 swaps polarity, rather than direction, to provide regen and braking, the effect can be varied by the brake pedal, the car is brake by wire. There is no direct connection to the brakes, the computer handles the swap between motors and physical brakes (there is an emergency backup, where it becomes physical). MG1 also starts the engine as there is no starter, and can provide 'engine braking'. It's not true engine braking, it spins up the ICE without ignition and allows MG2 to provide additional resistance or cope where the hybrid battery is regarded as 'full'. The battery technology will determine the balance there. For NIMH it operates somewhere between 40-80% and that reduces the number of cycles and makes the battery last much longer. The cars have an electric water pump, no alternator as that's done by the DC to DC convertor. A smaller 12v battery as they have no starter and once running, the main larger battery provides all the current. The aircon units are electric, so can run without the engine. There are lots of videos of the technology, it's complex software but physically simpler than a normal car and by that, it's more reliable and more reliable because it's Toyota.
Yes, on reliability. Until I did the digging on eCVT, I always wondered why the hybrid Toyota system seems to be so reliable, when at first glance, they would seem to be more complex. Well they actually are a pretty simple system as compared to an 8-10 sp auto with it all it clutch packs , TC and solenoids.
@@aaronb6390 And just to add a bit more: both MG1 & MG2 are 3 phase variable frequency a.c. motor/alternators with permanent magnets. Nice and simple mechanically, with no nasty contact brushes or anything like that. The Toyota “synergy drive” kit has 3 inverters (for the 3 phases) that work both ways between the high voltage traction battery and the motors, and a couple of dc to dc converters, to cover all the odds and ends that still use 12 V dc etc, including maintaining the conventional 12V battery. MG2 is sometimes called the traction motor, and as with all traction motors, it can churn out maximum torque at zero speed, and it’s permanently connected to the differential gear - even if one selects “neutral”, which just isolates the circuitry (including any battery charging). There are no rubber belts used in the Toyota hybrids - no low voltage alternator or any pumps. The ICE uses chain drive for the camshafts. Much of the complexity has been taken over by things like Integrated Gate Bipolar Transistors (IGBT) for power electronics, and associated software. However, the power electronic unit is liquid cooled, with it’s own coolant and so on, physically separate from the engine cooling, so that needs maintenance as per the manual - but it’s easy to glance at the fluid levels every so often.
@@xfirstxlast6502 Correct. The transmission only contains the motor/generators and gears including the sun and planet system so there are no wearing components there at all. This gives the mechanical components extreme reliability. Where I live a lot of the private hire drivers are driving Toyota Auris/Corolla hybrid estates.
I believe in power mode if MG1 rotates in the opposite direction to the engine at the same speed no power goes to the wheels If MG1 slows down at an rpm lower than the engine the gear ratio starts to decrease numerically and moving power to the wheels At equal rpm between mg1 and ice you have 1:1 gear ratio And when MG1 spins the same direction as ICE you will have over drive!
This is why your channel will continue to grow… full credit to you for coming back and re-visiting this car (and drivetrain) with the benefit of hindsight and a few thousand miles of driving 👍 Very few reviewers would ..…. I knew once you looked into it you would appreciate the engineering and efficiency of this drivetrain which most reviewers fail to see. Like you I have grown to be really impressed by the smoothness and brilliant fuel economy of this system but I think it takes more than a quick drive to appreciate it. When you also take into account the long term maintenance cost benefits of no starter motor or alternator, it is a brilliant piece of design and gives you a comfortable family sized SUV with the running costs of a small hatchback, as a daily driver I think it’s hard to beat 😊 (hope you survived the storm intact 👍)
Yup. I’ve had 2 generations of Prius since early 2001. The basic ECVT drive train is essentially the same as it was on the first Prius NHW10 released back in 1997 only in Japan home marketplace! So it's a very well tried and proven system and isn’t really that new at all. It was and still is streets ahead compared to any other transmission system. It is ultra reliable as well as ultra efficient. Glad you came back to correct the errors in the first vid! I was cursing at the screen when I watched it before watching this one!
I’ve had Prius/RAV for 15 years and boy did you make it sound complex. An eCVT is like a diff. A prop shaft comes in and one of the”axles” is MG1. I once had an XK120 stuck, dead battery, remote and bottom of a hill. I put it in overdrive top, blocked the wheels, jacked up one rear wheel and it only took about one good turn of the rear wheel by hand to start the engine. Same principle. The diff provides a variable ratio between the prop shaft and the wheels.
Good video. The direction of rotation is not what determines if a motor generator is generating or consuming power. For example when in EV mode and accelerating vs decelerating with regen the MG2 is rotating the same direction, however the power flow is reversed. This is actually accomplished by the inverter controlling the phase relationship or timing between the permanent magnets in the rotor and the rotating magnetic field generated in the stator, in one case this rotating field is accelerating the rotor, in the other case it is decelerating the rotor. It is simple in principle and complex in details at the same time. It is a fascinating system! Weber Auto is great.
You easily earned a subscriber with this video of yours! This RAV4 with the hybrid AWD system is also very capable off the road for what it is. With the capability and efficiency it provides, it makes up for a perfect road trip car no matter the conditions!
I bought a Brand New Corolla Excel Hybrid 2.0l. I did a LOT of research and despite my initial thoughts of the eCVT's being rubbish, I thought I would give it a go. Yes, it took a little getting used to, having come from a BMW 3 series with ZF gear box. However, having owned it 3 months and done upwards of 3000 miles, I can confirm, they are great gearboxes with the Hybrid drivetrain - even if they are 'different'! Glad you enjoyed your time with the RAV 4. Maybe my next Car?
Hi, I am reminded of the young people who race around on rev ‘n’ go automatic mopeds / scooters. Their engines and cvt transmissions let the engine spin straight up to optimum engine performance as they accelerate quickly away. I watched a video today of a 70cc rev ‘n’ go scooter in a race on a race track and it absolutely blitzed the other bikes! Like I said, the transmission allows the engine to reach optimum power and torque and literally hold those revs as the little scooter raced away with the engine holding those revs. Your initial thoughts on the hybrid sound brought the scooter analogy to mind. That Rav 4 hybrid will be mine one day! Great work Pedro!
10/10 for the come back video. Thought your last video was a bit harsh. Watched the weberauto guy myself when I bought my Rav to understand how it worked, his explanation and build video is fantastic.
Late comment but I believe one of the best parts of this Ecvt system is that the MG1electricaly accelerates the engine to optimum power delivery RPM without having to enrichen the mixture. Once the engine is at that speed, it can be kept in Lean mode vs Rich Pwr mode that is normally required. The next is that when low engine pwr is required, the engine runs at 1050 RPM and you can hear the throttle plate open, reducing pumping losses
So, fun fact, the XSE PHEV with the premium package (the vehicle you're driving) is the only one in the RAV4 hybrid lineup to actually HAVE a rev gauge + paddle shifters (I have a feeling you weren't aware). It can be found in the heads up display.
In the 1970s I owned four DAF cars that were driven by real rubber belts.The Toyota POWER SPLIT ECVT is mechanically the most elegant variable transmission available. No friction clutch or steel belts are needed
As one of the chief pedants on your previous RAV4 video, well done on a good explanation! "It doesn't sound right" is exactly the reason why car enthusiasts don't like hybrids. Despite hybrids actually being very responsive - making great use of the (rather limited) engine power.
Hi. Last year I bought a new Lexus NX. I believe it has a very similar set up as it's four wheel drive. My previous four cars were six cylinder BMW's, petrol and diesels. Before I purchased my Lexus, I only had a five minutes test-drive, never used a CVT gearbox before. I done my homework ,-a lot of it-, so I new what to expect. Don't know about Toyota,but the Lexus is so quiet, I hardly hear the engine. It's perfect!
I have a CVT in my Subaru WRX sports car. My friends thought I was crazy not getting a manual gearbox. I live in a city with a lot bumper to bumper driving. I wanted an automatic transmission for that driving. This was the first automatic I ever owned. I love it. It has paddle shifters and a manual setting. No clutch but six gears. Driving down a windy mountainous road it is such a pleasure to drive running up and down the gears. My wife and I have looked at the Rav to replace her car. We are still waiting we think the technology is a bit too new. We want them to get all the bugs out before we purchase one.
Understanding how it works do nothing and have nothing to do with people disliking it... What many people dislike about it is the lag you get, when stepping on the gas a little to accelerate it do not accelerate but the RPM goes up, then it slowly accelerates. And this feels not good at all, to make the car go you must step hard on the gas and there goes all the benefits of fuel mileage out the window... +++
Thanks for the update on eCVT. I was one of those that commented that you should look again at the totally different eCVT. Well done! Even the Honda CRV 1.5T with its cone/ pulley system CVT works well, since the turbo has pretty much max torque at 2k RPM, so it only revs high if you floor it. And at 60-70 MPH highways speeds the engine RPM is around 1800-2200 RPM thanks to the CVT ability to optimize the engine to load.
Great video. I drive an earlier iteration of an ecvt ('13 gs 450h), once you get used to the utter glassy smoothness you'll find every other transmission lacking in refinement. Luckily, being coupled to a 3.5 v6, it never needs to rev quite so highly during normal driving. The moment you step on it the power is there instantly, no kickdown, just straight into the powerband. It's a weird feeling but the speedometer shows that you're accelerating at a decent rate (of course, in comparison to today's 400hp+ EV benchmark it's nothing spectacular).
I know this is an old video - but I’ve been driving the 2024 facelift Ford Kuga which uses a Toyota based hybrid system and I love it, I don’t find the car noisy at all…..great explanation of how the system works.
The more I’ve read about the transmission the more fascinating it seems. I have actually put an order through for a Lexus NX450h as a company car. It’s basically a luxury version of this car. I was surprised in test drives that the ecvt did not bother me at all.
I’m late to the party here (video is 8 months old at time of my post), but that was just an EXCELLENT explanation of the Toyota hybrid charge system. I’ve been mulling over this car as a replacement to my 2018 Volvo XC90 D5, so maybe I’ll step up. Problem for me (here in Spain) is that the lead time is almost one year from date of order!
The Toyota Hybrid Synergy drive is an amazing bit of kit, mixing an internal combustion engine with two electric motors using a planters gear sytem to give a variable ratio transmittion with, I hear, ultimate reliability. As you mentioned, a hybrid that does 100miles then drops back on petrol would suit many people and is a great interim transition to full electric cars in the future. I tried a Mazda MX30 last year and really liked it. It has been slated by many as having too short a range, but if Mazda fit the range extender as promised, I think this car has a lot of potential. Remember the BMW i3 REX.
Just watched this as having bought the same car and had the same concern about revs. Great explanation, thank you It’s really helped. So pleased with the Rav 4.
You are so humble and professional for you to actually say ' I got it wrong'. I have also learnt a bit of details about the 2 types of motors and their functions. I love your videos and looking forward to your next. Thank you.
Just to mention one of your previous comments, on perhaps a different video, about the camera rear view mirror making your eyesight "Dizzy", I experienced the same issue, but by adjusting the mirror on its ball joint further away from you, does help. Also moving one head back further away does help For me the biggest issue is that when I am stopped at traffic lights the car behind looks like it is my car with me Overall it is much better than the thick rear pillars that obstruct the rear view quite badly
Glad you read comments. However long term reliability exemplary stands above most other makes regardless of gearbox. This you failed to mention. Most competition falls short BMW etc
@PetrolPed. Hi Peter. At 2mins 30 secs in the video you talk about the Motor/Generator. Please note, that the motor does not have to spin in the opposite direction to become a generator. Heres how it works: the Hugv Voltage Battery is connected to the inverter. That inverter will regulate the voltage to the MG up to increase speed, and kt will refulate the voltage down when the foot is lifted off the accelerator. That way electeical current is flowing because the MG now acts as a generator producing a higher voltage than what the inverter is producing, and power will flow to the high voltage battery. If you press the brake pedal, the inverter will further decrease the voltage. Now the electrical potential between the spinning MG2 and the inverter becomes bigger making the car brske harder and regenerate more power.
The story can be told from MG1 rotation speed perspective and also from the torque splitting perspective. After all MG1 can be resisting or helping the ICE torquing while it rotates. Thanks!
Crown and Camry hybrid owner here for last 6 years, also had a Prius with 365k miles and ecvt drivetrains are bulletproof and smooth as silk so would never return to manual. Crown has around 350bhp so ecvt can easily handle high power\torque too.
Last weekend I sold my 5 year old Jaguar IPace which I liked a lot and this weekend I pick up a Toyota C-HR Plug in and watching your video means so much more now than the last time I watched it I do have some trepidation with nervous excitement, so tonight I will be back to my childhood on Xmas eve
Hi there. Thanks for the video. I just recently decided to buy 2.0 toyota hybrid and I always wondered if there are those cones in the e-CVT. Now I do understand, simple and very well explained, thanks again. The dealer will deliver the car to me in about 2-3 months, I cant wait for it. I am a petrol head by nature, I always loved sports cars, big muscle engines, now settling down to hybrid 200hp car. That is the only thing that makes sense to me now with all those ecology restrictions, increasing petrol prices and stuff. Hopefully this is really as good as everyone says and thanks to you I also have clearer picture about the nature of the transmission. cheers.
I put an OBD tach in my RAV4 and I can see why Toyota replaced it with a linear power gauge that corresponds to your accelerator demands. The high idle when it needs to charge, and the high rpm engine braking would be overwhelming for the average driver. But I particularly enjoy rolling along at zero rpm :)
I’m so pleased I found your channel. I’m about to buy a Suzuki Across which will have exactly the same technology, I was concerned about the ECVT and it nearly put me off choosing the car.
I had also just watched the full video on the eCVT for the RAV4 last week. It makes you appreciate the amazing thought and design going into it. Most people I would say only care about the figures and stats, so I understand that eCVT opinions are just based on Misty how it feels. Otherwise, keep up the good work 😎👍.
Thanks for demystifying the RAV4 hybrid power train. My interest is that I'm waiting (in India) for delivery of a Toyota Hycross and the mention of e-CVT and the high RPM whine I heard during the test drive almost put me off. Your explanation has put things in perspective.
Thank you, very good review and expanation. We ordered ours last year and apparently it is nearly here. Back in the eighties we had a DAF 66 estate which was very good in most respects but if driven hard only did 20mpg. My mother had the DAF 55 which suffered a turned belt which meant that one wheel was driven at a higher ratio - nightmare. A new belt sorted it. Your review has given me renewed excitement for when ours arrives.
Fascinating insight into Toyota's genius with Hybrids. I've had my RAV4 PHEV for over 3 years now and I love it. I can usually get 42 miles on a full charge although I normally only charge to 80%. (Perhaps you could look into this 80/20% charge discussion I hear a lot about). One observation though, I don't think that the MGs reverse direction when regenerating. If electricity is applied, they are a motor. If you spin them, they generate electricity. Both in the same direction.
Your review throughout the long term loan experience has totally solidified my sincere desire to get the exact model you have been driving. Candid, insightful and helped me massively thank you.... just need to sort my finances, as can only go down the pre owned route, but a 71 or above plate will be perrfect. Karl H-W
I bought a 2013 Prius. Later I read Wikipedia's article. I have been a devoted fan of Prii and Toyota ever since and have been amazed at how little appreciation of the genius use of the planetary gear by Toyota there is among other reviewers.
Thank you for making this video. You explanined very well how it works. The only thing i was missing is that when it rev's that it rev's for only a short period of time only when you are accelerating and then the car is super quiet. That is the main reason why you get used to it very quickly and it elevated the comfort. As you said it is a very comfy car and very smooth. I have a Toyota Auris hybrid ts myself so i am familiair with the drivetrain. Appologies for my English. I am Dutch. Thanks again for your video. 🙂 Greetings from Arno.
I was put off the car with the first video but my faith has been restored. I drive an iX3 and I'm done with range anxiety and charger rage on long journeys.. so I'm after a nice phev
I’m just over the 5000 mark on my xse, I never really understood the inner workings until today, I knew already that it wasn’t a conventional CVT but I wasn’t sure if the high Revving nature Was completely normal until I talk to the dealer, but now I fully understand and I love the mpg, Anyway thanks for the time you took to fully explain it
Brillant explanation Ped, I have 17 plate Rav4 Hybrid and really didn't like the CVT due to the high revving of it, but just didn't understand why? until now from your super clear explanation. I am due to upgrade and wasn't sure which car to get next, you have now just convinced me, it's a plug in Rav4. Thank you.
I wonder if you could shed light on when there is a benefit to choose the mode that uses the engine to charge the battery over just driving in hybrid mode.
Appreciate your honesty. There is a general tendency in the audience in favour of Toyota products, and therefore certain "cons" can be justified just because the car brand is "reliable"!.. However, I also want to give you the credit for your previous comment about "the excessive engine noise"; in the end, the driving is a pleasure and thus the car companies need to work "harder" to reduce the incoming engine and road noises in the driver cabin. The main question that you adressed to the Toyota engineers was; "is there any way to bring this noise level at least to the level of Hyundai Tucson's?!!" At the end, we are not intending to drive a tractor by paying a premium price for an SUV!.
I have recently owned both cars and the reason the Tucson is quieter is mainly because weight has not been paired down whereas Toyota were ruthless in lightening body panels and glass. My understanding is that Toyota have more recently introduced a secondary film in the window glass to address some of the road noise issues. Lifting the Tucson bonnet and tailgate needs considerable strength compared to the Toyota. Finally the Tucson engine does occasionally sound very loud and rattles like a diesel going up steep hills.
An excellent explanation of Toyota’s ECVT transmission and why it is superior to the standard CVT transmission. I own a 2022 Toyota Highlander Platinum Hybrid AWD and I wondered about the high revs as well. Maybe that is why my car gets 35mpg highway and 35-37 mpg city and it’s a 4600 lb. 3 row seat vehicle.
I used to ride a Yamaha R1 (2005 model) and found the high performance engine at low and mid rev range on gradients or for acceleration provided enough hustle while avoiding the gas guzzling power band, and I got more mpg (50±) than my long distance commute Triumph 800 xrx. Seems a similar effect to the higher than normal engine rev for better efficiency you describe. (Although lower than normal for a pocket rocket ; ) Thanks for both R4 videos as helped me decide what I want to replace my ageing and very fuel inefficient Honda CRV (which is also a fabulous practical car for family of 5)
Good that.you’ve produced this addendum to your original review and explained how the gearbox works. I’ve owned various automatic cars and found the CVT equipped cars to be the most efficient and smoothest gearboxes.
What is interesting is the throttle does not control the engine anymore. The revs and load will be controlled, resulting in a longer life and lower wear and risk of failure. As for comfort and smooth, try an RX. Even more so. I have one and it is such a wonderful drive.
16:18 I got the exact noise on my 2022 Camry hybrid. I thought it was something wrong with engine at the first place drove to dealer they said its normal. I switch to ECO mode the noise is lower.
Good evening Ped, I have not experienced e E-CVT as of yet. I currently drive a 2022 Subaru Outback with their Lineartronic CVT and I have to say it is definitely different from what I am use to. Through the years I have had several manuals and everything from a three speed all the way up to eight speed auto’s. The smoothness of the CVT still impresses me. Although is has taken some getting use to. Great video as always! Looking forward to the next video with the Pups and Ms. Ped. Stay safe and healthy.
Land Rover use the ZF 9HP in a similar-ish way, for gear 1 at least. This gear is never used in normal driving, but if you select an off-road mode, then suddenly the engine revs rise for very slow forward motion. However, the engine is now in peak torque mode using gear 1 to help get it over the obstacles. This allows them to get round the lack of a lo-range box on the Discovery Sport/Evoque.
The best way to understand how this gearbox works is to look at it like a 3 way differential. In a diff. If one wheel stops all of the drive goes to the opposite wheel. Now imagine that you turn the first wheel in the opposite ( backwards direction) it will spin the moving wheel faster. That is what the electric motor does. It turns the( stopped wheel ) at the corresponding speed that will adjust the engine driven wheel to the required speed.
1.) Make a mistake 2.) Admit it 3.) correct it - genius! I hope this idea catches on!
I have a Highlander Hybrid and I'm an engineer as well and I had the same exact reaction about how eCVT works when I finally understood it...genius! I watched that exact video you recommended about eCVT multiple times to get my head wrapped around it😅. You have to forget the traditional gear box system to fully understand and appreciate this, it is really brilliant.
other makes use an automated manual box where toyota have the 'Power Split Device'. Geesh!
The E CVT Transmission is clever. Whats not so clever is the rough running and load 2.5 l engine. They could insulate it better and to make it even more efficient, adding a turbo charger = more torque lower in the Rev range = quieter and more efficient!!
@@larsthor9691 they probably insulate it already on Lexus models that uses this same power train like the NX hybrid I believe and you are mainly using the electric motor on the low range from stop for quick acceleration.
I owned a Camry Hybrid and loved the drivetrain, because it’s variable you feel no shift points. I also like Toyota’s because I worked as an assembly specialist for them and and retired with 31 years. They make great vehicles and treated me well.
Great video, thanks.
Great explanation! Toyota has really perfected the eCVT and reliable transmissions in general. All the misleading biased information about 'CVTs' comes from the lack of execution from other brands *cough* nissan. When you omit the belts and cones and replace those bits with a metal planetary gear set the rules change and Toyota has single handedly brought back the charm of what a true e CVT can be.
HSD is not a CVT.
Those are completely different concepts. Everyone knows that.
CVT stands for continuously variable transmission. Says nothing about how it's executed. Ofc the confusion comes from most of CVTs bring belt drive.
@@aamgdp CVT is a specific concept using belts. In contrast, Toyota's HSD works with planetary gears and NEEDS multiple motors to work.
You wouldn't say that a dieselelectric locomotive or ship has a CVT, or even a helicopter with a secondary gas turbine, just because the RPM from the propulsion is decoupled from the power source.
@@aamgdpExactly, CVT describes a behaviour rather than a specific mechanism.
Is Nissan’s transmission really that bad? ~I’m thinking about how their hybrid transmits power to the wheels. From the looks of it, seems to be a simpler mechanism where the ICE does not even send power to the wheels but rely solely on the electric motors.
In addition to my 500hp Audi Q7, and my motorcycles, I also have a Toyota hybrid. As an owner I must say that the use of the 'eCVT' label, by both Toyota and Ford for their planetary torque-split gearboxes, does them a disservice. Everyone sees the 'CVT' part, but very few understand that the 'e' stands for 'emulated'. It eliminates the direct linkage between engine and road speeds, just like a CVT, but is fundamentally different and shares absolutely nothing in common with the CVTs that so many cringe over. I applaud your taking the time to dig deeper, and learn more about how the system really works, as that lousy 'eCVT' label causes far too many to dismiss it out of hand. The Weber Auto recommendation was a fantastic choice, as he does a great job of demystifying planetary torque-split gearboxes. I'd highly recommend people take a look at Weber Auto's full catalog of videos to learn more about what makes their car work. 👍
How do you compare the resposiveness of the ecvt in comparison to a manual or traditional automatic?
Given that its in power mode for sure
@@FirstLast-tx3yj In 'Power Mode' the response is instantaneous, maximizing the use of the motor-generators.
Exactly
@@FirstLast-tx3yj just had this channel pop up in my RUclips algorithm, so I apologize for my comment coming a year later😂.
I test drove a Toyota Avalon, which does not have all-wheel drive and forgoes the rear motor and it was quite sluggish from a dead stop.
Toyota's 4 cylinder all-wheel-drive hybrid platform has the feel and acceleration of a V6 due to the instantaneous torque provided by the electric motors mg2 & mg3/r.
Just a minor nit, the "e" in eCVT stands for "electronic" ( *electronic* Continuously Variable Transmission)... Where the "e" is really referring to the implementation and functions of the the electric motors (MG1 / MG2) which control the driveshaft speed, crankshaft speed, HV battery charging, reverse mode, (and on and on) in the transmission.
I’m 74 years and your video made me smile…..
When I was 18 years I made a cycletour through Holland, the Netherlands. In the province Friesland impetus a young couple with a DAF ( Dafodle) , I believe that this was its name. That car had a CVT and DAF Eindhoven, from the van Doorn family, was the first CVT car in Holland and Europa..
It’s nice to see you so enthusiastic about the choice Toyota made with this car.. I will follow you because I like your style..
Daf advert back in the day, " Forward to go forward, back to to go back" Brilliant system. Similar system on early combine harvesters, to increase or decrease forward speed in very small increments.
Yeah, the variomatics. Went as fast forward as they did backwards. They organised races driving them backwards on Zandvoort. Hilarious stuff.
The DAF had a literal rubber band drive and it was rubbish.
I also watch videos on WeberAuto and it is explained there perfectly...the problem is that people simply refuse to understand the eCVT drive because they have been technically connected to a classic drive with a classic gearbox for decades...but this system works completely differently than a classic combustion engine with automatic gearbox. ...they don't understand it so they refuse it...if you understand this system you start to love it...what amazes me personally about this system is its absolute simplicity...when I technically compare it with DSG it is like the sun and the rainfall...
Understanding how it works do nothing and have nothing to do with people disliking it... What many people dislike about it is the lag you get, when stepping on the gas a little to accelerate it do not accelerate but the RPM goes up, then it slowly accelerates. And this feels not good at all, to make the car go you must step hard on the gas and there goes all the benefits of fuel mileage out the window...
@@a64738Not much of this rubber band effect in eCVT.
Plus instant torque from electric motor helps.
Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps the most impressive thing about this powertrain is that the electronics control both the engine and the transmission in every detail and the result is not just excellent fuel efficiency but also a very rewarding driving experience with a lot of flexibility left in the drivers control. As well as Weber's excellent explanation of the transmission there is also plenty of material about the highly sophisticated engine design which is itself a hybrid supporting both Atkinson cycle principles and more conventional operation as required. The electronics allow all these variations to operate seamlessly and the driver gets instantaneous response to the accelerator pedal.
Finally! Congratulations! You understand it now and admit you had it wrong in the first review. So many of your “professional” colleague reviewers still don’t understand it, only because they don’t take the time to really understand it. It just don’t fit their idea/concept how a car should sound and work.
This makes your reviews so much more trustworthy. You have gained a subscriber. Thank you and keep on making these great video’s!
Thanks Roy for the lovely comment and Sun and welcome to the channel 👍
The motors don’t change direction to change from motor to generator, I doubt he really understands it. If MG1 needed to reverse direction, you would need to drive in reverse to get it to regenerate.
Understanding how it works do nothing and have nothing to do with people disliking it... What many people dislike about it is the lag you get, when stepping on the gas a little to accelerate it do not accelerate but the RPM goes up, then it slowly accelerates. And this feels not good at all, to make the car go you must step hard on the gas and there goes all the benefits of fuel mileage out the window...++
I appreciate your humility to acknowledge you didn't know enough in the previous review and instead of being defensive learned something new and shared it with others. Great explanation.
As a former engineer I found this fascinating, very well explained and informative, well done.
👍
I enjoyed your first video on the RAV4 - thank you. I had already driven one but was concerned about the CVT transmission. I read loads about it and this morning took out another for a test drive for 2 hours specifically to come to terms with how it works. Like you, once I 'got it' it wasn't an issue at all - it's just a change of mindset about how the car is working. It really is very clever. Thanks for putting up this second video and for explaining how you have adjusted to it. Full marks for revisiting the CVT issue. I've just ordered a RAV4 as a result of my drives and your clear videos have been a real help. Thanks again.
An excellent simplistic explanation. I recently traded in my beloved 9.5 years old LR Discovery 4, which I owned from new. I purchased a late 2021 registered Toyota Highlander Hybrid (not a PHEV) now discontinued here in the UK and which is, I think, basically a RAV4, albeit with 7 seats. The differences for me were, initially at least, confusing, for a 70 years old retired engineer. When I bought the car I hadn't realised just how radically different it truly is. Very smooth, very quiet in operation, with that high rev surprise. I had to investigate further. From an engineering perspective, what Toyota have achieved is stunning! I think many folk, unless they have an engineering background, or an interest in engineering and how things work, will not appreciate just how revolutionary this design is. Because of my background I am well aware of planetary gearboxes, motors and generators etcetera, but the design and innovation work on this combined concept is nothing short of amazing. I'm still learning about this system, but I now believe that this really has the potential to replace the current mania for pure EVs. It's a shame that many people will only appreciate it from a fuel and emissions saving perspective. I, for one, am now a convert to the hybrid. Thank you.
I’ve been driving Toyota hybrids for the last 16 years including the last 10 months with a RAV4 Prime. It’s good to see you correct your understanding of the hybrid drive system, thank you. One small nitpick, the mg2 alone will only power the car to 84 mph not 124 mph.
How did you arrive at this information? Thank you in advance.
I arrived at this information because I own one. 83 mph is the limit for EV only, at which point, the gas engine comes on and will power it to a top speed of 118 mph. No Prime goes 124 mph. The gas only version of the Rav4 will hot 124 mph though.
@@pbear216 And you did this where?
@fivish anywhere really. It only takes a little over 1/4 mile to reach 118 from a dead stop
@@pbear216. Be extra careful with that 😮
Evening all , six months ago I bought a GR Yaris and on an impulse bought a hybrid Yaris too , first impression was this gearbox is weird but once you dive it and get used to it it’s actually not that bad and as a bonus the economy was astounding ! so just traded it in for a new Yaris Cross which is actually a lot quieter… thank god !
Oh and six months later still totally blown away by the GR , can’t stop smiling when I drive it !
Mega cars 👍
Good on you for properly reviewing an eCVT vehicle. Too many reviewers do not know how it works including one American who claimed the new Prius did not accelerate quickly enough,whilst not looking at the speedo, presumably listening to the engine as you might with a manual box.
I picked up my new Corolla GR Sport 2.0 Hybrid one month ago. It is the first CVT transmission vehicle that I have used. I quite like the roar you get on acceleration, then the quietness you get when cruising. You can barely detect when the engine cuts in after driving on EV only. My wife loves driving it too, so happy days.
They are great cars 👍
Correction for everyone it’s called a E-CVT.
I have a 2019 Prius Prime, which uses the P-610 e-CVT (the baby brother to the P-710 in the Rav4 Prime in this video). Toyota's HSD transaxles are really good technology, very reliable, and they last a very long time if you just change the oil and coolant at the recommended intervals. They are much simpler internally than a conventional automatic or belt-drive CVT, and there's not much that can go wrong with them within the normal life of a car (250,000 miles). I'm not counting the traction battery, of course - the battery will probably need replacement at 120,000 miles - but the internal components of the transaxle and power inverter/converter are generally good for 250K. And the operating cost for gasoline and home charging on a plug-in Hybrid make them pretty easy on the wallet. PHEV's occupy that middle ground between conventional vehicles and pure battery-electrics, with all the best qualities of both, if not the 240+ mile electric range of a Tesla, Bolt, or Leaf.
As for high-revving: My Prius Prime, in Hybrid mode, cruises at 55 mph with the gas engine running at 1200~1300 rpm, and it's virtually silent. Climbing steep grades on a freeway, say 6% (that's 6 feet of rise per 100 feet, or 3°26' if you like angular measure), at 55 mph, the engine will be running between 2400 and 3200 rpm, depending on state of charge in the battery and how heavily loaded the car is. The computer that's controlling everything will never allow the gas engine to rev past 4,200 rpm, which is the torque peak - revving it any faster will not gain you any faster acceleration. The low torque peak speed is a consequence of the Atkinson cycle; you sacrifice top end power for better fuel economy and efficiency. At engine speeds above 2500 rpm, the engine noise becomes more noticeable, but since the car is only that noisy on steep hills and hard accelerations, and very quiet most of the rest of the time, in my opinion, the Prius and Rav 4 Hybrids and Rav4 Prime are among the smoothest and quietest cars with a gas engine that you can get. Pure EV's are quieter, but can't match the 550+ mile driving range of a Prius or Rav4 Plug-in hybrid. And that's 550 miles year round: summer or winter, rain or snow, hot or cold. Pure EV's often see their driving range cut in half if the temperature falls below 5°C.
To elaborate on the explanation of this Rav4's drivetrain: The planetary gear he refers to is the "Power Split Device" in the heart of the transaxle. The MG1 motor is splined to the central Sun gear. The MG2 motor is splined to the outer ring gear of the PSD and to the differential. The gasoline engine is splined to the planetary gear carrier. The computer that's controlling the powertrain looks at the position of the throttle pedal, the car's speed, and the state of charge in the traction battery, and if the vehicle is in Hybrid mode with the gasoline engine running, it will first decide what RPM is most efficient for the gas engine. It will send fuel to the engine, and electric power to the MG1 motor, is a proportion that causes the engine to deliver the desired amount of power at the proper engine rotation speed that matches the vehicle speed. It does this by causing the MG1 motor to spin faster, or slower, or even in reverse, depending on the speed of the vehicle. Before the availability of small yet powerful computers in the late 1990's, the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive would have been impossible. The computer that accomplishes all of this magic is reading dozens of sensors and making thousands of decisions every second as to how to allocate gasoline to the engine and power flow to the two motors and the traction battery.
Rav4 plugin hybrid uses p810 just like highlander
Pity all the other reviewers haven’t owned up to not knowing how brilliant the E CvT is, well done sir, I only wish the plug in hybrid was available in Australia, so much for our politicians being seriously concerned about the environment.
Best description of Atkison Cycle I’ve heard or read about. I drive a Rav 4 hybrid, not the plug in type. It is an amazing vehicle. Engineering is really impressive. Thank you
👍
Correction regarding motor/generator mode:
Whether it operates as a motor, or generator, has nothing to do with the direction of rotation of its shaft; both modes are available with both shaft directions. The mode is determined solely by the direction of current flow, i.e., current polarity, versus the voltage polarity.
A motor/generator can change from one mode to the other, with no change in its shaft speed. All of the "magic" happens in the electronic controller, which sets the polarity and magnitude of current.
As an engineer, I truly appreciate the novelty and cleverness of the Toyota hybrid design. I wish it was not referred to as e-CVT, though, because such a name is misleading and doesn't do the system justice. None of the power transfers within the system rely on friction.
Thanks for your honesty. CVT transmissions have caused confusion with many people who are confused by the engine revs. It does take some time to get used to the way they operate compared with normal gearboxes. The Toyota system is very clever and could well be the direction we need to go during the transition to full EV.
Thanks again, a great video.
Gerry in Australia.
Thanks Gerry 👍
What does going full ev have to do with this transmission?
@@miltechmoto essentially a CVT will give the driver an experience not achieved in standard gearboxes. It will find peak torque and the car can remain there whilst it accelerates. This is similar to the power delivery by EVs, albeit not so brutal.
In other words a CVT has one effective gear just like an EV.
Yes there are various CVT boxes available and depending on the manufacturer and the software that they have, the may behave differently.
Good explanation, been driving Toyota hybrids for a while now . Until you know how they work unlike CVTs of old you come to appreciate how good they are and how clever Toyota are bringing this to market and being successful
Yep 👍
I have a RAV4 & think its very clever technology and now through your great explanation I know how it works
It is a great skill to explain the complex in a concise and understandable way, thanks Pete. I’m 2,500 miles into RAV4 PHEV ownership and loving it. You have to drive in a manner that suites the car, there ‘s no point hustling it. When I switch to my Alpine or Caterham then I have to recalibrate quite a bit!
Correct. 3 things Toyota hybrids doesn’t like and best to avoid:
1. Hard acceleration
2. Extreme stopping
3. Constant fast driving
Build for smooth pleasurable everyday drive , efficient and reliable cars. 👍
@@toninocars I drove a mitsubishi outlander once a bit too hard and got a warning on the dash about the battery overheating lol
We are @15600 miles on our R4P and this is the very best auto SUV we have ever owned. It took us about 1500 miles to figure out the trans and the ice setup. We average 3.2 miles per kilowatt hour for a range of 44- 50 miles electric. On lever ground @65-75 mph we have surpassed 42 miles per gal in straight hybrid mode. There are additional driving modes in the “S” mode for a real thrill in very steep hills. S1 thru S4 are under drives for steep hills and S5- S6 are near normal driving. We have owned 23 new cars from Toyota Corollaries to even a Turbo Supura and this thing is faster then all of them. ( turbo Supura was a wheel spinner) . No faults yet.
@@robertnixon1374 hi are you suggesting putting the car in sport mode for steep hills, but does this not increase the revs
thanks
@@kroberts7576 the S mode does increase revs but this also allows better road feel and dynamic braking. Steep hills seem much more controllable in S2-3 at lower speeds especially on twisting steep roads at 25-40 mph.
Wow, glad you’re not just another basic motoring journalist. In the Lexus NX phev which is the same tech as this, the noise isn’t much of an issue as it’s got really good sound dampening.
Too many people can’t admit when they’re wrong. Glad you could. It’s refreshing
Cheers 👍
Excellent video, thank you. I have a 2019 RAV4 hybrid Excel and love it. Before that I had a 2017 RAV4 hybrid and Toyota have improved on each gen. I have got used to the higher revs and don't notice it. Toyota are now offering a 10 year warranty providing the car is serviced by themselves each year. The ecvt is near enough bullet proof. I wish I could afford the PHEV but it's a little over my price point. Thank you for your comments.
I can’t have a PHEV so would need the standard petrol hybrid. Is it the same gearbox in both
@@kencatchpole5063 yep same ecvt. Every thing is the same apart from a bigger battery and an upgraded inverter to push more power to mg2 and the rear motor. This gives a 301 hp to the 219 hp of the regular hybrid.
I recently test drove a Lexus UX with a CVT box. I was very wary before the drive but it is perfect for that kind of vehicle. It was a lovely smooth drive and I couldn’t even feel the engine kick in and out. Great in town and busy traffic. Smooth at speed. My wife even ordered one to replace her Mini Cooper S!
Excellent car and excellent choice. You don't realise that on the motorway at 70mph the engine isn't running. Enjoy it when you get it.
Yep u can’t feel it.
A couple days ago I wanted to understand more about the eCVT in my 2019 RAV4 XSE Hybrid, and watched that same video by WeberAuto. Your video popped on my radar today, and within a few minutes I KNEW that it was his video that made you as excited (as I now am) to tell people about how COOL and BRILLIANT this transmission is. Between the MG1, MG2, and a few gears, I think there are a total of ~8 moving parts in the transmission -- and no heat generating, transmission destroying, "flexible metal belt" garbage like an old-school CVT. Unless someone somehow comes up with something simpler that works just as well, I could easily see this style of transmission be the standard for all hybrids.
Very good, simple explanation.
Only part I would add is that for any planetary gear set if two of the three components move at the same speed it effectively locks the gear set so you get 1 to 1 ratio - so in the rav 4 at 1 to 1 engine ratio MG1 must match the engine speed.
I would strongly recommend watching the WeberAuto video. I watched that before I bought a Prime as I wanted to understand if the technology was new and potentially less reliable - it is not actually new and I believe it to be very reliable. To really understand the Toyota eCVT you also how a planetary gear works. There are lots of videos for this, but in a nutshell for a planetary gear to transfer power you need to hold one of the three gears (in the planetary gear configuration) in a fixed position. Automatic transmissions have a series of planetary gears where hydrologic clutches hold various gears fixed in to give the desired gearing. The brilliant aspect of the eCVT is rather than hold a gear fixed, MG1 controls the sun gear to create a CVT like performance. It also only uses a single planetary gear, as opposed to three or more in a typical automatic transmission.
I should also add, thanks for correcting your previous error. Too many RUclipsr's do not do that.
Thank you for the clarification. Very helpful!
We are trying to decide between the HEV and PHEV versions of the Rav4. We we’re leaning towards the HEV simply because we know we won’t always have access to charging, but now we know the car can charge the battery (albeit with a higher fuel consumption) that’s swayed things back in favour of the PHEV - which is more appealing because it has a few more features (such as a HUD).
Thankyou so much for this video. You have used my exact words when I have been complaining to my wife as the passenger regarding my Rav 4 Hybrid, that the revs have been rising with little progress forward. I was convinced that the auto gearbox was effectively slipping but clearly did not understand how these motors work. Things have advanced a lot since the old auto boxes obviously. I now no longer need to pester my Toyota Dealer, convinced there was a problem. My mind is at rest. Thanks again.
Toyota's hybrid is a generation ahead of its competitors. I have never heard of someone having problems with Toyota's RAV4 Hybrid e-CVT.
Really ? Maybe read the comments below 🤷♂️
Good video ped - and it’s important for people to realise how clever these systems are (yet so reliable). Couple of errors I picked up on (only minor). MG2 doesn’t run in reverse to charge (it’s meshed directly to the drive wheels remember), it just drags to regenerate. MG1 doesn’t do re-gen braking, however it can be turned by the ICE to generate electricity. If ICE is generating while your driving, MG2 is driving, whilst ICE / MG1 are generating. You can’t use the ICe to contribute to acceleration if MG1 is generating, as MG1 would have to be turning the sun gear to provide the variable ratio.
Just to add, MG2 swaps polarity, rather than direction, to provide regen and braking, the effect can be varied by the brake pedal, the car is brake by wire. There is no direct connection to the brakes, the computer handles the swap between motors and physical brakes (there is an emergency backup, where it becomes physical).
MG1 also starts the engine as there is no starter, and can provide 'engine braking'. It's not true engine braking, it spins up the ICE without ignition and allows MG2 to provide additional resistance or cope where the hybrid battery is regarded as 'full'. The battery technology will determine the balance there. For NIMH it operates somewhere between 40-80% and that reduces the number of cycles and makes the battery last much longer.
The cars have an electric water pump, no alternator as that's done by the DC to DC convertor. A smaller 12v battery as they have no starter and once running, the main larger battery provides all the current.
The aircon units are electric, so can run without the engine.
There are lots of videos of the technology, it's complex software but physically simpler than a normal car and by that, it's more reliable and more reliable because it's Toyota.
Yes, on reliability. Until I did the digging on eCVT, I always wondered why the hybrid Toyota system seems to be so reliable, when at first glance, they would seem to be more complex. Well they actually are a pretty simple system as compared to an 8-10 sp auto with it all it clutch packs , TC and solenoids.
@@aaronb6390 And just to add a bit more: both MG1 & MG2 are 3 phase variable frequency a.c. motor/alternators with permanent magnets. Nice and simple mechanically, with no nasty contact brushes or anything like that. The Toyota “synergy drive” kit has 3 inverters (for the 3 phases) that work both ways between the high voltage traction battery and the motors, and a couple of dc to dc converters, to cover all the odds and ends that still use 12 V dc etc, including maintaining the conventional 12V battery.
MG2 is sometimes called the traction motor, and as with all traction motors, it can churn out maximum torque at zero speed, and it’s permanently connected to the differential gear - even if one selects “neutral”, which just isolates the circuitry (including any battery charging).
There are no rubber belts used in the Toyota hybrids - no low voltage alternator or any pumps. The ICE uses chain drive for the camshafts. Much of the complexity has been taken over by things like Integrated Gate Bipolar Transistors (IGBT) for power electronics, and associated software. However, the power electronic unit is liquid cooled, with it’s own coolant and so on, physically separate from the engine cooling, so that needs maintenance as per the manual - but it’s easy to glance at the fluid levels every so often.
@@xfirstxlast6502 Correct. The transmission only contains the motor/generators and gears including the sun and planet system so there are no wearing components there at all. This gives the mechanical components extreme reliability. Where I live a lot of the private hire drivers are driving Toyota Auris/Corolla hybrid estates.
I believe in power mode if MG1 rotates in the opposite direction to the engine at the same speed no power goes to the wheels
If MG1 slows down at an rpm lower than the engine the gear ratio starts to decrease numerically and moving power to the wheels
At equal rpm between mg1 and ice you have 1:1 gear ratio
And when MG1 spins the same direction as ICE you will have over drive!
Why I love this channel is because of your honesty in reviewing cars. Keep up the good work.
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This is why your channel will continue to grow… full credit to you for coming back and re-visiting this car (and drivetrain) with the benefit of hindsight and a few thousand miles of driving 👍 Very few reviewers would ..…. I knew once you looked into it you would appreciate the engineering and efficiency of this drivetrain which most reviewers fail to see. Like you I have grown to be really impressed by the smoothness and brilliant fuel economy of this system but I think it takes more than a quick drive to appreciate it. When you also take into account the long term maintenance cost benefits of no starter motor or alternator, it is a brilliant piece of design and gives you a comfortable family sized SUV with the running costs of a small hatchback, as a daily driver I think it’s hard to beat 😊 (hope you survived the storm intact 👍)
Thanks bud 👍
The original eCVT in the Prius actually won a major Engineering award.
And I think toyota has a patent on it and that is why no other cars can reverse engineer it and use it.
Yup. I’ve had 2 generations of Prius since early 2001. The basic ECVT drive train is essentially the same as it was on the first Prius NHW10 released back in 1997 only in Japan home marketplace! So it's a very well tried and proven system and isn’t really that new at all. It was and still is streets ahead compared to any other transmission system. It is ultra reliable as well as ultra efficient. Glad you came back to correct the errors in the first vid! I was cursing at the screen when I watched it before watching this one!
@@Just_In_credible6ford uses Toyotas hybrid system
I’ve had Prius/RAV for 15 years and boy did you make it sound complex. An eCVT is like a diff. A prop shaft comes in and one of the”axles” is MG1. I once had an XK120 stuck, dead battery, remote and bottom of a hill. I put it in overdrive top, blocked the wheels, jacked up one rear wheel and it only took about one good turn of the rear wheel by hand to start the engine. Same principle. The diff provides a variable ratio between the prop shaft and the wheels.
Good video. The direction of rotation is not what determines if a motor generator is generating or consuming power. For example when in EV mode and accelerating vs decelerating with regen the MG2 is rotating the same direction, however the power flow is reversed. This is actually accomplished by the inverter controlling the phase relationship or timing between the permanent magnets in the rotor and the rotating magnetic field generated in the stator, in one case this rotating field is accelerating the rotor, in the other case it is decelerating the rotor. It is simple in principle and complex in details at the same time. It is a fascinating system! Weber Auto is great.
I watched the previous video and now viewed this! This helped me feel better about ordering my RAV4 hybrid. It’s coming soon!
That’s good to hear 👍
You easily earned a subscriber with this video of yours! This RAV4 with the hybrid AWD system is also very capable off the road for what it is. With the capability and efficiency it provides, it makes up for a perfect road trip car no matter the conditions!
Thanks for the sub and welcome ti the channel 👍
I bought a Brand New Corolla Excel Hybrid 2.0l. I did a LOT of research and despite my initial thoughts of the eCVT's being rubbish, I thought I would give it a go. Yes, it took a little getting used to, having come from a BMW 3 series with ZF gear box. However, having owned it 3 months and done upwards of 3000 miles, I can confirm, they are great gearboxes with the Hybrid drivetrain - even if they are 'different'! Glad you enjoyed your time with the RAV 4. Maybe my next Car?
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Hi, I am reminded of the young people who race around on rev ‘n’ go automatic mopeds / scooters. Their engines and cvt transmissions let the engine spin straight up to optimum engine performance as they accelerate quickly away. I watched a video today of a 70cc rev ‘n’ go scooter in a race on a race track and it absolutely blitzed the other bikes! Like I said, the transmission allows the engine to reach optimum power and torque and literally hold those revs as the little scooter raced away with the engine holding those revs. Your initial thoughts on the hybrid sound brought the scooter analogy to mind. That Rav 4 hybrid will be mine one day! Great work Pedro!
Super impressed you could talk about something so complex and drive!
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The motor deserves credit too. It's the perfect engine and trans combo.
10/10 for the come back video. Thought your last video was a bit harsh.
Watched the weberauto guy myself when I bought my Rav to understand how it worked, his explanation and build video is fantastic.
MG1 and MG2 turn the same way all of the time. To change from a 'Motor to Generator' all that happens is the Polarity is changed.
Late comment but I believe one of the best parts of this Ecvt system is that the MG1electricaly accelerates the engine to optimum power delivery RPM without having to enrichen the mixture. Once the engine is at that speed, it can be kept in Lean mode vs Rich Pwr mode that is normally required. The next is that when low engine pwr is required, the engine runs at 1050 RPM and you can hear the throttle plate open, reducing pumping losses
So, fun fact, the XSE PHEV with the premium package (the vehicle you're driving) is the only one in the RAV4 hybrid lineup to actually HAVE a rev gauge + paddle shifters (I have a feeling you weren't aware). It can be found in the heads up display.
How they actually work, because eCVT do have only one continuous gear? Bet like computer or speakers fooling 😂
In the 1970s I owned four DAF cars that were driven by real rubber belts.The Toyota POWER SPLIT ECVT is mechanically the most elegant variable transmission available. No friction clutch or steel belts are needed
As one of the chief pedants on your previous RAV4 video, well done on a good explanation!
"It doesn't sound right" is exactly the reason why car enthusiasts don't like hybrids. Despite hybrids actually being very responsive - making great use of the (rather limited) engine power.
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Watched this and the in shop breakdown video you recommended and I feel like with both videos, I really understand the basics of the eCVT. Well done!
That’s great to hear 🙏🏻👍
Hi. Last year I bought a new Lexus NX. I believe it has a very similar set up as it's four wheel drive. My previous four cars were six cylinder BMW's, petrol and diesels. Before I purchased my Lexus, I only had a five minutes test-drive, never used a CVT gearbox before. I done my homework ,-a lot of it-, so I new what to expect. Don't know about Toyota,but the Lexus is so quiet, I hardly hear the engine. It's perfect!
I have a CVT in my Subaru WRX sports car. My friends thought I was crazy not getting a manual gearbox. I live in a city with a lot bumper to bumper driving. I wanted an automatic transmission for that driving. This was the first automatic I ever owned. I love it. It has paddle shifters and a manual setting. No clutch but six gears. Driving down a windy mountainous road it is such a pleasure to drive running up and down the gears. My wife and I have looked at the Rav to replace her car. We are still waiting we think the technology is a bit too new. We want them to get all the bugs out before we purchase one.
Understanding how it works do nothing and have nothing to do with people disliking it... What many people dislike about it is the lag you get, when stepping on the gas a little to accelerate it do not accelerate but the RPM goes up, then it slowly accelerates. And this feels not good at all, to make the car go you must step hard on the gas and there goes all the benefits of fuel mileage out the window...
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And here was I thinking my transmission was slipping. I'm so use to direct drive so to speak. Thanks for the explanation 👍
Glad to help
Thanks for the update on eCVT. I was one of those that commented that you should look again at the totally different eCVT. Well done! Even the Honda CRV 1.5T with its cone/ pulley system CVT works well, since the turbo has pretty much max torque at 2k RPM, so it only revs high if you floor it. And at 60-70 MPH highways speeds the engine RPM is around 1800-2200 RPM thanks to the CVT ability to optimize the engine to load.
I think the Jazz ehev has a similar system to this Rav. ruclips.net/video/6glpZTRT6qE/видео.html
Great video. I drive an earlier iteration of an ecvt ('13 gs 450h), once you get used to the utter glassy smoothness you'll find every other transmission lacking in refinement. Luckily, being coupled to a 3.5 v6, it never needs to rev quite so highly during normal driving. The moment you step on it the power is there instantly, no kickdown, just straight into the powerband. It's a weird feeling but the speedometer shows that you're accelerating at a decent rate (of course, in comparison to today's 400hp+ EV benchmark it's nothing spectacular).
Your research paid off Peter because that was beautifully explained
Thanks 🙏🏻
I know this is an old video - but I’ve been driving the 2024 facelift Ford Kuga which uses a Toyota based hybrid system and I love it, I don’t find the car noisy at all…..great explanation of how the system works.
The more I’ve read about the transmission the more fascinating it seems. I have actually put an order through for a Lexus NX450h as a company car. It’s basically a luxury version of this car. I was surprised in test drives that the ecvt did not bother me at all.
I’m late to the party here (video is 8 months old at time of my post), but that was just an EXCELLENT explanation of the Toyota hybrid charge system. I’ve been mulling over this car as a replacement to my 2018 Volvo XC90 D5, so maybe I’ll step up. Problem for me (here in Spain) is that the lead time is almost one year from date of order!
New eCVT owner here. I can see why first impressions can put people off with this transmission. It has a bit of a learning curve to drive it smoothly.
The Toyota Hybrid Synergy drive is an amazing bit of kit, mixing an internal combustion engine with two electric motors using a planters gear sytem to give a variable ratio transmittion with, I hear, ultimate reliability. As you mentioned, a hybrid that does 100miles then drops back on petrol would suit many people and is a great interim transition to full electric cars in the future. I tried a Mazda MX30 last year and really liked it. It has been slated by many as having too short a range, but if Mazda fit the range extender as promised, I think this car has a lot of potential. Remember the BMW i3 REX.
Just watched this as having bought the same car and had the same concern about revs. Great explanation, thank you It’s really helped. So pleased with the Rav 4.
You are so humble and professional for you to actually say ' I got it wrong'. I have also learnt a bit of details about the 2 types of motors and their functions. I love your videos and looking forward to your next. Thank you.
Just to mention one of your previous comments, on perhaps a different video, about the camera rear view mirror making your eyesight "Dizzy", I experienced the same issue, but by adjusting the mirror on its ball joint further away from you, does help. Also moving one head back further away does help
For me the biggest issue is that when I am stopped at traffic lights the car behind looks like it is my car with me
Overall it is much better than the thick rear pillars that obstruct the rear view quite badly
Glad you read comments.
However long term reliability exemplary stands above most other makes regardless of gearbox.
This you failed to mention.
Most competition falls short BMW etc
I did indeed…oops 🙈
@PetrolPed. Hi Peter. At 2mins 30 secs in the video you talk about the Motor/Generator. Please note, that the motor does not have to spin in the opposite direction to become a generator. Heres how it works: the Hugv Voltage Battery is connected to the inverter. That inverter will regulate the voltage to the MG up to increase speed, and kt will refulate the voltage down when the foot is lifted off the accelerator. That way electeical current is flowing because the MG now acts as a generator producing a higher voltage than what the inverter is producing, and power will flow to the high voltage battery. If you press the brake pedal, the inverter will further decrease the voltage. Now the electrical potential between the spinning MG2 and the inverter becomes bigger making the car brske harder and regenerate more power.
The story can be told from MG1 rotation speed perspective and also from the torque splitting perspective. After all MG1 can be resisting or helping the ICE torquing while it rotates. Thanks!
Thank you for the explanation and sincerity. Ford kuga has exactly the same system. Very very smooth and low low consumption.
Crown and Camry hybrid owner here for last 6 years, also had a Prius with 365k miles and ecvt drivetrains are bulletproof and smooth as silk so would never return to manual. Crown has around 350bhp so ecvt can easily handle high power\torque too.
Last weekend I sold my 5 year old Jaguar IPace which I liked a lot and this weekend I pick up a Toyota C-HR Plug in and watching your video means so much more now than the last time I watched it
I do have some trepidation with nervous excitement, so tonight I will be back to my childhood on Xmas eve
Very nice!
Hi there. Thanks for the video. I just recently decided to buy 2.0 toyota hybrid and I always wondered if there are those cones in the e-CVT. Now I do understand, simple and very well explained, thanks again. The dealer will deliver the car to me in about 2-3 months, I cant wait for it. I am a petrol head by nature, I always loved sports cars, big muscle engines, now settling down to hybrid 200hp car. That is the only thing that makes sense to me now with all those ecology restrictions, increasing petrol prices and stuff. Hopefully this is really as good as everyone says and thanks to you I also have clearer picture about the nature of the transmission. cheers.
Also, you mentioned front-wheel drive, how the four-wheel drive work? Via MG2 that powers up the rear?
I put an OBD tach in my RAV4 and I can see why Toyota replaced it with a linear power gauge that corresponds to your accelerator demands. The high idle when it needs to charge, and the high rpm engine braking would be overwhelming for the average driver. But I particularly enjoy rolling along at zero rpm :)
I learned about the eCVT from the Car Care Nut on you tube awhile back. Yes it is amazing. I drive the 2023 Prius AWD XLE and love it!
I’m so pleased I found your channel. I’m about to buy a Suzuki Across which will have exactly the same technology, I was concerned about the ECVT and it nearly put me off choosing the car.
Glad to be of help 👍
I had also just watched the full video on the eCVT for the RAV4 last week. It makes you appreciate the amazing thought and design going into it. Most people I would say only care about the figures and stats, so I understand that eCVT opinions are just based on Misty how it feels.
Otherwise, keep up the good work 😎👍.
Thanks for demystifying the RAV4 hybrid power train. My interest is that I'm waiting (in India) for delivery of a Toyota Hycross and the mention of e-CVT and the high RPM whine I heard during the test drive almost put me off. Your explanation has put things in perspective.
It’s an impressive drive train 👍
Thank you, very good review and expanation. We ordered ours last year and apparently it is nearly here. Back in the eighties we had a DAF 66 estate which was very good in most respects but if driven hard only did 20mpg. My mother had the DAF 55 which suffered a turned belt which meant that one wheel was driven at a higher ratio - nightmare. A new belt sorted it. Your review has given me renewed excitement for when ours arrives.
Fascinating insight into Toyota's genius with Hybrids. I've had my RAV4 PHEV for over 3 years now and I love it. I can usually get 42 miles on a full charge although I normally only charge to 80%. (Perhaps you could look into this 80/20% charge discussion I hear a lot about). One observation though, I don't think that the MGs reverse direction when regenerating. If electricity is applied, they are a motor. If you spin them, they generate electricity. Both in the same direction.
Your review throughout the long term loan experience has totally solidified my sincere desire to get the exact model you have been driving.
Candid, insightful and helped me massively thank you.... just need to sort my finances, as can only go down the pre owned route, but a 71 or above plate will be perrfect.
Karl H-W
Glad it was helpful 👍
I bought a 2013 Prius. Later I read Wikipedia's article. I have been a devoted fan of Prii and Toyota ever since and have been amazed at how little appreciation of the genius use of the planetary gear by Toyota there is among other reviewers.
Thank you for making this video. You explanined very well how it works. The only thing i was missing is that when it rev's that it rev's for only a short period of time only when you are accelerating and then the car is super quiet. That is the main reason why you get used to it very quickly and it elevated the comfort. As you said it is a very comfy car and very smooth. I have a Toyota Auris hybrid ts myself so i am familiair with the drivetrain. Appologies for my English. I am Dutch.
Thanks again for your video. 🙂
Greetings from Arno.
I was put off the car with the first video but my faith has been restored. I drive an iX3 and I'm done with range anxiety and charger rage on long journeys.. so I'm after a nice phev
I’m just over the 5000 mark on my xse, I never really understood the inner workings until today, I knew already that it wasn’t a conventional CVT but I wasn’t sure if the high Revving nature Was completely normal until I talk to the dealer, but now I fully understand and I love the mpg, Anyway thanks for the time you took to fully explain it
Brillant explanation Ped, I have 17 plate Rav4 Hybrid and really didn't like the CVT due to the high revving of it, but just didn't understand why? until now from your super clear explanation. I am due to upgrade and wasn't sure which car to get next, you have now just convinced me, it's a plug in Rav4.
Thank you.
I wonder if you could shed light on when there is a benefit to choose the mode that uses the engine to charge the battery over just driving in hybrid mode.
Appreciate your honesty. There is a general tendency in the audience in favour of Toyota products, and therefore certain "cons" can be justified just because the car brand is "reliable"!.. However, I also want to give you the credit for your previous comment about "the excessive engine noise"; in the end, the driving is a pleasure and thus the car companies need to work "harder" to reduce the incoming engine and road noises in the driver cabin. The main question that you adressed to the Toyota engineers was; "is there any way to bring this noise level at least to the level of Hyundai Tucson's?!!" At the end, we are not intending to drive a tractor by paying a premium price for an SUV!.
I have recently owned both cars and the reason the Tucson is quieter is mainly because weight has not been paired down whereas Toyota were ruthless in lightening body panels and glass. My understanding is that Toyota have more recently introduced a secondary film in the window glass to address some of the road noise issues. Lifting the Tucson bonnet and tailgate needs considerable strength compared to the Toyota. Finally the Tucson engine does occasionally sound very loud and rattles like a diesel going up steep hills.
An excellent explanation of Toyota’s ECVT transmission and why it is superior to the standard CVT transmission. I own a 2022 Toyota Highlander Platinum Hybrid AWD and I wondered about the high revs as well. Maybe that is why my car gets 35mpg highway and 35-37 mpg city and it’s a 4600 lb. 3 row seat vehicle.
Thanks 🙏🏻
I used to ride a Yamaha R1 (2005 model) and found the high performance engine at low and mid rev range on gradients or for acceleration provided enough hustle while avoiding the gas guzzling power band, and I got more mpg (50±) than my long distance commute Triumph 800 xrx. Seems a similar effect to the higher than normal engine rev for better efficiency you describe. (Although lower than normal for a pocket rocket ; ) Thanks for both R4 videos as helped me decide what I want to replace my ageing and very fuel inefficient Honda CRV (which is also a fabulous practical car for family of 5)
Good that.you’ve produced this addendum to your original review and explained how the gearbox works. I’ve owned various automatic cars and found the CVT equipped cars to be the most efficient and smoothest gearboxes.
What is interesting is the throttle does not control the engine anymore. The revs and load will be controlled, resulting in a longer life and lower wear and risk of failure.
As for comfort and smooth, try an RX. Even more so. I have one and it is such a wonderful drive.
16:18 I got the exact noise on my 2022 Camry hybrid. I thought it was something wrong with engine at the first place drove to dealer they said its normal. I switch to ECO mode the noise is lower.
Good evening Ped, I have not experienced e E-CVT as of yet. I currently drive a 2022 Subaru Outback with their Lineartronic CVT and I have to say it is definitely different from what I am use to. Through the years I have had several manuals and everything from a three speed all the way up to eight speed auto’s. The smoothness of the CVT still impresses me. Although is has taken some getting use to. Great video as always! Looking forward to the next video with the Pups and Ms. Ped. Stay safe and healthy.
Land Rover use the ZF 9HP in a similar-ish way, for gear 1 at least. This gear is never used in normal driving, but if you select an off-road mode, then suddenly the engine revs rise for very slow forward motion. However, the engine is now in peak torque mode using gear 1 to help get it over the obstacles. This allows them to get round the lack of a lo-range box on the Discovery Sport/Evoque.
The best way to understand how this gearbox works is to look at it like a 3 way differential. In a diff. If one wheel stops all of the drive goes to the opposite wheel. Now imagine that you turn the first wheel in the opposite ( backwards direction) it will spin the moving wheel faster. That is what the electric motor does. It turns the( stopped wheel ) at the corresponding speed that will adjust the engine driven wheel to the required speed.
Look at this video at 6:40 for a visual. ruclips.net/video/yYAw79386WI/видео.html
so it doesn't have that cvt metal belt?