WHY THEY BOXED LIKE THIS IN THE PAST
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Do you want to know why they boxed like this in the past? Tony Jeffries shares the reason behind the old boxing stance and their unique boxing techniques that boxers do in the early times of boxing. Some of the weird things they are doing in the past are 1. Boxing without gloves and not wearing mouth-guards 2. Lead Hand is out and Rear hand is tucked.
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The evolution of boxing is interesting as it started from a very brutal fight to a more safe competition.
Chapters:
0:00 WHY THEY BOXED LIKE THIS IN THE PAST
1:00 Bare Knuckle Boxing
3:08 Old Boxing Stance Style
7:06 Crazy Facts in the History of Boxing
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My name is Tony Jeffries, Olympic Bronze medallist now co-owner of Box 'N Burn, 2 boxing fitness gyms in Los Angeles, as well as the Box 'N Burn Academy...this i a sour education program where we teach trainers how to teach boxers
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What are your thoughts on the Boxing style they used to do in the past?
Watch next: Olympic Boxer Reacts to your Boxing Training Videos
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I think the boxing style is good for body punches but bad for defense
Bassically its a good style for offense not defense
British Bare Knuckle Boxing: appears to be an incarnation of this. I watch it fairly often. They don't hit to the head as much, and have 18 counts. Only 3 rounds, of two minutes, I think. Great vid!
I never thought it was funny looking the way they used to stand.
They were basically fighting and I always felt that anytime you're using skills to fight, you do what makes you comfortable.
Kindly bring down your speech rate sir.....it will be good for us
Love your video's, Tony. So interesting and informative.
From my research (for a college paper in an athletic trainer course), gloves were introduced when rich kids started boxing and didn't want marks on their faces. So the trainer had them wear an early version of a boxing glove.
The research I found showed the glove disperses the force of a punch, reducing the likelihood of a knockout. However, because the fighter can withstand more blows to the head without being knocked out, the likelihood of brain injury from repeated trauma is increased.
Do you have any specific names or year to share? I would love to read up more or even your research paper
I have heard the opposite. That a glove dispenses the force in a way that causes more shock to the brain.
I think the bare knuckle will also do more cutting wounds to the face which will end the fight sooner
What gloves do is reducing the risk of cuts. I guess because you don't have as punctual force spikes as with your knuckles. Also as said in the video, you can hit harder and more often to the head, because they are protecting your hand.
What gloves don't do is prevent force to the head (as they protect the hands it's pretty much the opposite). Force is mass times acceleration. Lets ignore the higher mass the gloves bring, maybe it will even out with the lower acceleration. Anyway, the acceleration the head will suffer from is only slightly reduced by the cushioning, if even. This means equal or at least comparable force to bareknuckle, with less risk of cuts and less risk of breaking hands.
Your research is fucked up.
Tony corrected himself the second time he mentioned it but when he first said 1983 he meant to say 1893
Was looking for this comment, hahah.
@@JivecattheMagnificent so was I! 🧐
those marbles......
@@JivecattheMagnificent likewise lol
Nah it was 1983 aka the cocaine era where just a few lines and you're going 1100 rounds with the best of them.
My grandfather was an undefeated amateur boxer with over 50 fights. He was born around 1905. My uncle said they used kid gloves, basically leather gloves with no padding. My uncle said my grandfather won with speed, head movement and knockouts by left hooks to the liver. That makes me think holding the right arm in close to the body was to protect this vulnerable area.
there can be many different reasons why you do that some mma fighters use such stances, and traditional karate, muay thai has its own version, or to be more accurate muay boran. In what country or city did your grandad box ? That is an super interesting story 😀 one uncle of mine wrestled a bear on the fair that some gipsy had and won, then bear wanted to hit him but gipsy stopped him 😂
@@denis3208 this was Williamstown, Pennsylvania, USA. My grandfather was a coal miner. The story of your uncle and the bear is fantastic.
Absolutely correct, it’s held the same way in some martial arts fighting
The bully at my middle school was an undefeated champ who had studied 19 years of boxing, karate, wing chun and Brazilian ju jitsu. He was an absolute beast with over 300 dozen wins under his belt and over 20 confirmed kills by ripping out hearts. One time I made a hilarious joke about his mom looking like a Michael jackson because they are both dead and he came right at me. About to do a roundhouse kick so powerful Joe rogan would cum in his pants. And I just fuckin shot him. 19 years martial arts < 2 hours of fortnite
@@paranormallettuce7227 bwahahahaha! I've never played. Did knock out a huge drunk offensive lineman at my college with a rock when he attacked me at a party. Rock > Giant.
They got that “Why I oughta!” stance 😂
you aint lying 😂😂
Nyuk nyuk nyuk-Curly
I thought it was more of a "Bully, you say!" stance.
PUT EM UP SONNY
😂 Perfect description.
This is how they should teach history class
With eye gouges
@@systemSkynet If you get the technique wrong, Tony will give you a 1-2 combo. Basic history class :)
Too bad history teacher only know about political history
@@fikriasrofi5312 I wish they could teach history through fighting styles.
@@StarsAreBright i think it would be unecesarry of general population especially in school
Old boxing matches were far more like modern MMA matches just fought in a sand ring(with far loose safety regulations) and lasted as long as the fighters wanted.
Usually, it wasn't a well-organized affair and was locally arranged in carnivals and other public gatherings and it was also illegal in the US for a long time so it wasn't nearly as well known there as in Europe.
Most boxing matches of the early 1800s were conducted under the "London Rules," which were based on a set of rules laid down by an English boxer, Jack Broughton, in 1743. The basic premise of the Broughton Rules, and the subsequent London Prize Ring Rules, was that a round in a fight would last until a man went down. And there was a 30-second rest period between each round.
Following the rest period, each fighter would have eight seconds to come to what was known as the "scratch line" in the middle of the ring. The fight would end when one of the fighters could not stand, or could not make it to the scratch line.
Theoretically, there was no limit to the number of rounds fought, so fights could go on for dozens of rounds. And because the fighters punched with bare hands, they could break their own hands by attempting knock-out punches to their opponent's heads. So matches tended to be long battles of endurance.
Man boxing was wild back then, they could basically wrestle. Imagine if some sort of grappling or were allowed in boxing.
@@jmgonzales7701 Check out Shootboxing. It's in Japan. It's basically standing Vale Tudo. They wear 6oz boxing gloves. Kicking, punching, suplexing and chokes from standing are all legal.
@@Gotchism4Life will check it out
@@kainickname They regularly have amateur events where kids are training. It's limited because they stick to light weight classes. We may see a resurgence in 10-15 years once those kids grow up.
@@kainickname catch Wrestling, Kudo or Sambo ( Is hard to find a Sambo gym)
The golden age stance makes me think of fencing, with one hand extended towards the opponent like a rapier, and the other kept close to the body like a buckler.
The first bare-knuckle heavyweight champion actually started off as a fencer, and that's where he got his stance.
On the "lack of footwork," I think it was another optimization for the conditions. Fighting on sand or grass, you don't get the firm grip and level surface necessary to make modern style footwork effective. It's hard to even judge how nuanced their footwork was because we don't have 19th century tape. If something worked, they probably adopted it.
We talk about the 'evolution' of technique over centuries as progress, but as you say, 90% of the difference is just changing context. I'd wager a few decades is enough for a vibrant community to bring the art to the point of diminishing returns, where the question becomes solely the talent and dedication of the athletes and trainers.
Also the erly boxers didn't lack footwork but it wasn't learned from boxing but from armed combat. Even in 17th, 18th and 19th century most man was trainned in melee armed combat so probably nobody even thought that writting down a footwork manual for boxing was needed because everyone understand the importance of moving in fight and how distance, spacing and step rhytm work from their military education or even civilian formal education. Similar think happened with armed combat manuals, because nobody have written the basic in a book, because it was expected that you know the basics, you know how to hold, strike and block with a weapon, so the historic sources we have are mostly about advanced technique or specific situations.
@@marektoufar9690 Yes. Always important to account for assumptions. Teaching the style vs the universals.
@@kevingray4980 I think the most important part you mentioned is that they didn't have cameras back then. For all we know they could just have footwork similar to modern martial artists, one frame can't tell much about how it'll work in motion. Hell, if you take pictures at the right moment even in the fight, many professional boxers today would look like they don't know a thing about footwork. Or they can be completely outlandish to us due to different fighting rules but a single picture would leave a lot of speculation.
@minhducnguyen9276 The footwork was the same up until recently. Try Tony Canzoneri for example, he fought in the same stance as the guys from the 1800s while fighting in the 1930s. You also have Bob Fitszimon who fought just out of the 1800s. Back then they didn't like to hop around. More like to step to keep their balance and like to step into their punches.
@@marektoufar9690 It's like the lack of physical training in old boxers compared to today. In the old days, the boxers had hard manual labor jobs, so they were already strong as hell. It was just a matter of learning technique.
Five things need to be mentioned additionally:
1) Stepping in with the punch was something that was a thing (you see it later with for example Jack Dempsey matches).
2) Other punches were permitted such as hammer strikes, back fists etc.
3) My two cents but feet were more firmly planted to generate more powerful blows while fighting bare knuckled (rather than swivelling on the balls of the feet for power generation, something which you can do with gloves more easily).
4) Vertical punches were far more common.
5) It's far easier to dodge punches while bare knuckle.
Also jack Dempsey put his strong side forward, Bruce lee studied him extensively and Bruce had his strong side forward as well, I didn’t see this mentioned in the video
I think than they were well planted also for increase balance in grappling, so more close to judokas and greco wrestlers
My only issue is with number 5, and even then it might just be a different perspective. I think it's easier to slip & dodge the big gloves. Mainly cause they are pretty easy to see coming. But for that same reason, it's even easier block gloves, and pretty hard to block punches.
@@dacedebeer2697 I think that is very true
@@dacedebeer2697 that is quite debatable, since usually a boxer don't doge what he sees coming, but he expect is coming, also without gloves you will instinctively shoot punches a lot slower and also for blocking if you learn to use your elbow to block at a distance I guess it might be devastating for the opponent
This is very interesting ! It's interesting to see that when there was no gloves, the primary target was the body and grappling was involved, old boxing stances are astoundingly similar to old forms of karate. Also in old Muay Thai and Muay Boran there used to be stances like this, before boxing gloves became the norm.
Look close at George Foreman's fights when he's using his "long guard". Same principles on display.
It's like when languages evolved from Latin. Martial arts vernacular!
A lot of traditional martial arts have a lower gaurd. The picture of the guy punching at 1:26 looks just like shaolin.
@@arbogast4950 look up "Kung Fu stances explained." A lot of the low guard positions are also because it translates to the style's main weapon.
I allways tought that it was for the chinese boxers. Karate Uechi Ryu (a traditionalist style) has a similar guard because the first katas came from China. But i really don't know how old chinese box are. Maybe the guard is even older!
It's actually a really good stance if you're taller than your opponent or if you have a longer wingspan. My cousin is like 6'3 and does this stance. It helps him maintain a sort of distance against his opponent denying them the ability to reach in for a hit
I realized the stance looks similar to Baji Quan
It’s not that different from how every right handed person fights either, jab left for spacing and right for protection and power
This stance still works exceptionally well:
1) Front arm for distance creation, stuffing forward momentum with a collarbone press/check, guards that side by position and distance, good for clapping an ear on a fallback step if they overextend with their own jab.
2) Rear arm is essentially always loaded and ensures your strongest punch from a pure physics perspective is always ready to go, protects all the bones of the thorax, can easily be dropped and turned to protect other rib cage from kicks and strikes, then immediately brought back leaving very little opening without having your opponent expose themselves well into your guard
3) keeps you in a very strong hiploading position, giving you the ability to always have a heavy kick threat and or knee ready to be delivered if they try to "shoot" your legs.
With proper footwork and distance control, it's arguably better than a lot of even modern stances. This is particularly true when you dont have rules to protect you -- the modern squared up stance is really bad in a street fight because you loose all kick threat and it opens you up to being double-leg thrown or sweeped insanely bad, which, now that I think about it is basically how I've seen every decent boxer Ive known lose a fight, actually.
Really defends the liver shot KO too
Every decent boxer lose to who another boxer. Every stance has a weakness it's all about the person using the stance. This old stance used today in modern boxing you get youe ass kicked.
@@watching789 ...muai thai and MMA and many kickboxers disagree with you.
keeping your arm outstretched like that in a street fight is just asking for it get taken...It's almost like we evolved the forms from the past to be better or something huh. Unless a boxer can run away get a weapon or control the ability to land a knockout punch at will, a grappler will dismantle them in most cases.
@@formdoggie5 Lmao, unless you can just knock me out in one shot on approach or just float around out of range, you seem to underestimate how easy a takedown can be and overestimate your own ability. Most people believe themselves to be more superior than they actually are anyway, there is always someone better that can do things out of the norm, but that's why we call them outliers.
Please though, take things on the internet even more seriously. It is hilarious.
Pretty good summary there. I have studied classical pugilism for quite some years now and you are on the money. Back in the day boxing more like Lethwei. You had throws such as the cross buttock to land your opponent on their head. You also had locks and chancery allowing you to hold your opponent and hit him. Key targets were the eyes since a blinded opponent - due to the knuckles - could not fight. The other target was the 'mark' or the solar plexus as we call it. You can hit full force to this so they had the rear hand there protecting it as it was the key knockout shot. Another one from the LPR days was a long hook impacting behind the ear with the large knuckles of the hand. Oh, and rounds were not timed. They ended when someone went down and then had 30 secs to 'come up to scratch'. You had a picture of Jem Mace as a former champion of England (Gypsy Jem Mace). He used to take bets in pubs that he could punch through the 1" thick oak door panels.....
love this comment!
Great comment, man. Have you read Kirk Lawson's book on the grappling used in old boxing matches? Awesome read.
@@JivecattheMagnificent I have, yes! Very well researched.
@@DaveCollins123 Hahah, no problem! I have it, since it was recommended by the EnglishMartialArts channel!
My research suggests they fought in this stance because taking a backward step in a fight was considered cowardice so you would keep your opponent at farthest arms length reach possible. black fighters began fighting off the back foot using footwork to the point it made backpeddeling necessary just to cope nevermind win
Strangers that are far from box: "Punching someone without gloves can cause damage to their head!"
Pro boxers: "Punching someone without gloves can hurt my hands"
Around here, street fighters that learned to fight on the street - as opposed to learning to box and then transferring the skillset to the street - still use a similar kind of stance and principles (minus the leaning back, usually). It obviously works for gloveless, full-contact fighting, and in a quite natural way.
I trained in Japanese Jutitsu and the only difference between the stance from the image in this video, and what we used was that our hands were opened instead of a fist and the head was bent forward a little, but the rest seemed almost identical to what we did.
If you simply turn the lead hand over, rather than holding it in the supinated position while extended, it's almost a karate stance, if/when the stance is bladed. Stephen "Wonder Boy" comes to mind. He keeps that lead hand extended like that with the palm facing out. There are still glimpses of that old school style in kickers.
Good analysis. I totally saw Wonder Boy when you mentioned it
boxing was introduced to Japan and changed karate
Also mvp has a very similar low guard stance.
@@k9aid514 More like Karate changed when it was introduced to Japan. Having to differentiate itself from Judo while at the same time taking huge inspirations like the dogi and ranked belts meant that technique had to change and the grappling got toned down and even forgotten while striking was encouraged.
Karate's change due to boxing's influence was a tad further down the track.
@@psychedashell Yes and Jesse the Karate Nerd has addressed this in other videos I was comment on only this
Tony my man, this is amazing info! So valuable to understand the history, reasons for rules, and have such an in depth understanding of the sport.
I agree. Thanks Tony! Now I can go back to my coach and give him answers on a subject we talk about and been wondering about. 🥊😉
The part about grappling makes sense to me. Having your hands lower helps defend against take downs. You see a lot of mma fighters use a modified version of the left hand extended/rights hand chambered at the cheek. Dan Henderson was famous for it.
You should review the book Championship Streetfighting: Boxing as a Martial Art by Ned Beaumont. It’s a funny, quick read packed with interesting boxing history and an explanation of why boxers of old used the style they did.
Ned beaumont is a nobody lmao. He has never had a fight in his life. Bum.
The stance thing is interesting in that Mendoza and some of his peers advocated a more squared stance with both hands held up to protect the head during the time when grappling was allowed, and the bladed stance we usually consider the "old-timey pugilist's stance" actually became popular when grappling was removed from boxing.
The advent of Queensbury rules was a definite sea change.
Mendoza's stance looks a lot like the Cus D'amato peek a boo stance.
@@gregquinn7817 Yeah, that's how I interpret it too. Other sources from the 18th century have images that look more like the classic boxing stance with the front hand slightly forward, but Mendoza seems to not favor either hand over the other.
Not sure that is correct about avoiding grappling. Throws were allowed but you couldn't go for the legs. All throws had to be greco-roman.
@@chonzen1764 having your hands out to parry/push off is how you want to defend upperbody grappling because if you keep your hands close you they can get their hands closer which allows a better chance and under hooks, over hooks or body lock/bear hugs.
I think this really expresses the difference fighting sports in a way.. Because rules create a foundation for the fighting style.. Like these guys, with no round limits, and not wanting to risk breaking their hands, they leave their face very exposed to facilitate essentially just beating each other's body to a pulp until someone gives up or cannot continue. These guys are very tough but it's just a completely different sport, they wouldn't last long in a modern boxing ring and a modern boxer wouldn't survive against these guys either. I wonder if they used karate-style ways of conditioning their hands
Yes, rules make the game and every rule change will drastically change the game.
The idea they didn't hit each other in the face is a myth, but they absolutely did do hand conditioning. Toughening the skin by soaking the hands in brine was common, and the simple act of doing all their bag work without gloves or wraps would have had a massive conditioning effect on the bones and muscles of the hands.
IIRC I've heard that they hit each other in the face plenty, but would do so either more conservatively than most boxers today or would actually use open palm strikes.
@@Tan12 I don't know of any evidence they ever used palm strikes, but hitting more conservatively sounds very likely.
@@Matt_Alaric very tough
Correct. And this is why the guard in eg karate still looks like this and why it protects the fist both with hand conditioning (makiwara) and favouring straight punches. It assumes no gloves. This is not well understood.
I absolutely enjoyed your accent. Not trying to sound youtubish for the masses but rather enjoying the portrayal of fights as you spoke. Some true frontman attitude right there. I'm not even into such sports, just stumbled upon this.
Was randomly recommended this video and I gotta say - glad for it. Love boxing but also love your energy Tony, awesome vid man!
Thanks so much Matthew
As a muay Thai practitioner, It would be great to see a pros/cons video of how different stances will fare in a pure boxing match.
I second this.
I third this. I would find it interesting to hear what an "average boxer's answer" would be to exotic stuff like the animal kung fu styles and other exotic stuff based on theory rather than practice lol.
The square stance gives you a lot more power in both hand but your footwork is a little slower, the traditional boxing/kickboxing stance gives you better movement but a weaker forward hand hence the reliance on jabs as feelers and keeping distance. You can use both stances in a fight strategically. The Peakaboo stance is a really interesting one, it makes you look really vulnerable but when you move in close the person is already in an excellent position to uppercut you.
@@goblin-night Tony Jeffries is not an average boxer what are you talking about
Muay Thai "PRACTITIONER" ???
is that what we are calling ourselves these days ? LOL
When i trained Muay Thai we didn't have bullshit, it was pure, it was hard
and we didn't bother with fancy titles
we simply called ourselves (as the art called us) Muay Thai Fighters
How times have changed
Tony, I love that you did this for us. What an amazing history lesson.
I appreciate it Ron, If u don’t mind, could u please share this vid on ya social media please. Will really help me out :) All good if not 👊🏻
Pretty great how those old dudes made boxing look like a gentleman's sport, when it was likely far from it.
This channel is gonna blow up as long as you keep the information density up. This is amazing
Tony Jeffries, I learned classical Shaolin Kung-Fu. We also teach a similar type of guard for fighting. We have many guards taught from fist to palms but the old boxing guard is similar to our most basic fighting guard. The fighting rules of engagement taught to me were that headshots were not as common for friendly exchanges in Chinese martial arts. Very interesting to see old-school boxers and how they held their hands. We can also use the front arm to help gauge distance from the opponent.
That's kind of like my stance in Sanda practice. more of a bladed/side stance. I'm pretty tall so I keep my lead arm and my lead leg extended for jabs and sidekicks to keep distance. My Shifu is helping me with my form.
I've always wondered why. Thanks for sharing!
This is the most exciting, inspiring, channel
that I’ve arrived at recently. As an old time martial artist I am very keen to keep my game going . Learning new technique, going over footwork, which is my favorite and being enthralled on a rainy Copenhagen Sunday …. Well I thank you 🙏 edit reminds me a of wing chun stance
Absolutely loved this video! Especially enjoyed the historical facts at the very end! Keep up the good work, much love from Oregon USA ✌️
5:29 holy crap what fight was this it looked action packed but also violent as hell
Favorite RUclips coach! Respect to my man 🙏🙌 . Keep up the grind💪💪🥊🏆
I love the history of boxing that you’re teaching. Very informative!
One of the best videos I've watched in a long time. Thanks
0:34
"CRAZY CRAZY FUCKED!"
His accent makes the video 5x better lmao
Tony made a lot of good points in the video. One of the reasons the fighters back then held the one arm to the side and across the middle of their body was to protect against liver shots (if right handed) and to protect the “mark” (solar plexus). A good punch to either spot could result in a knockout. Vertical fist punches tended to result in less broken hands and less tweaked wrists, as striking with the last three knuckles like Dempsey says lines the bones up better. One reason the fight‘s back then had so many rounds is that a fall would end the round. Sometimes if you wanted to take a break, you could grapple and throw your opponent, thus ending the round. Some of the rounds didn’t last very long due to a knock down or a throw. Of course, seven hours is a heck of a long fight, no matter how many breaks you get. They were some tough people back then for sure.
Amazing vídeo, Tony! Energetic, fast, full of interesting facts PLUS crazy facts! You're a good comunicator! Thanks for the video!
always love to hear you talk
Well after a quick google it is 1893 where the longest match of 110 rounds took place… I mean between reading the line and editing the text in you would think that obvious error would be caught
He probably has an editor who just put in whatever he says
Brilliant video, man. I have this old book, I can't remember the title, but it has all these ringside reports from the golden age of boxing, and yeah, while there were many horrific strikes to the head and face, there were also many, many descriptions of how people would break their fingers or hands, so indeed there must have been a kind of "sweet spot" people would aim for, where they're striking hard enough to end a match, without destroying their bones in the process. Brilliant content as always.
Fascinating. Thank you! I love this video. So informative.
Thanks for the content, Tony!
This was fascinating!! And very well presented. I always wondered why boxers from the past had that stance and hand position. I learned a lot. Thanks for this. Cheers!
Tony i love your videos so much thank you for all the tips and im learning a lot
Great video Tony, I love boxing history. I’m a senior Canadian who trained at Billy Irwin’s club in Niagara Falls. Billy was British Commonwealth champion way back.
Great to see You in excellent shape and still giving away advice, tips and interesting content for the younger generations - or just simple "curiosities" and facts from History! It's always very nteresting. Glad to see how your Channel have grown! 🙂 Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, to You and Family, Tony! PS. Best Regards from Poland.
Wow, what a great video! I've always wonder why the rigid stance with the inverted fists. This was very interesting and informative Tony. I love to watch black and white 15 rounds old fights. My 3 favorite all time pugilists are Kid Gavilan, Wilfredo Benitez and most recently Andy Lee.
Tony, well said! You have no idea how delighted I am to hear somebody say (more or less) what I have always thought. I raised this very same point before (on another site) and nobody got it, the armchair warriors were out in numbers but not in any kind of force I would be worrying about?. The difference between fighting with gloves and bare-knuckle is massive. One well-timed jab (without gloves) can knock somebody on their arse, if you consider the angle of the 'old fighters' they were not set up for a jab so much as a jabbing 'undercut', you would get that fist straight into your teeth, lips and philtrum (lower nose), an awful blow, just one might settle the battle because you might have been knocked down, spitting teeth, blood pouring back your nostrils and eyes just teared up so you can't see properly.
To the people who never fought full-contact and say 'that's old school' I say there was a very good reason and you should be glad you personally never got 'schooled'
I can honestly say I 'paid my dues' in sweat and blood and broken bones but 'eff me backwards, I could never come close to what some of those fighters were, my god!
That is a good point about gloves and head guards too. Just like the USA footballers, the protection of helmets just meant they get hit hard for longer. Their is no boxer I know that wears his gloves in the street, as much as I love boxing as a sport, I have never considered it wasn't a lethal martial art that had been led astray?
I cannot say this emphatically enough: PHENOMENAL video!!!
Thank you Tony! Big fan, love your videos, and appreciate the information! SUPER interesting! Hope you have a great day man!
Great vid lad 💯
I love this video especially since I've been watching old boxers. Tony is there any way you could please break down Joe Lewis's deadly right hand and the funky way he threw it and lifted his back right foot when throwing it. I'm still figuring out WHAT EXACTLY and how did he have that much power behind that punch. Love your videos I appreciate all your hard work on these videos for us!
Watch a baseball player throw a ball, the back leg comes up to get more leverage on your shoulder.
It's more of the whipping motion of your hips suddenly squaring back up. If you watch a leg kick thrown with a fighter's rear leg, you'll notice they often rotate their forward leg to the outside just before throwing it. It gives their kick alot more power bc it allows the rotating hips to work like a stretched rubber band suddenly being released. It is the same principle behind the punch or throwing a baseball tho.
Like Jackson Gatlin told you, he threw that punch like a fastball pitcher and he did it with perfect timing and devastating power. When the hips turn just so and that shift of weight leads the right hand with perfect timing, a punch can go off like a bomb. Tyson did it, Ali's so-called "Anchor Punch" in Liston II was an example (except thrown more off the back foot). When the weight shifts well, you'll often see the back right foot get light. Louis just did it better than almost everyone.
@@mrw1208 I (and many others) do a similar thing when bowling. Most bowlers face the pins squarely, approach the lane, and the end of their slide and release of the ball happens at the same time. However, I approach the lane almost perpendicular to the pins and I still have the ball lifted high behind me when my slide stops. High backswing+ball dropping while hips turning hard to get squared up with the pins gives a much more fast and powerful throw with high revolutions on the ball. It works well for me and I'm sure the rotation of hips technique can be applied in many sports for increased speed and power.
Great videos mr tony,as usual
Great stuff Tony! Keep it coming!
Just just showed up as a random video to watch, and I'm glad I watched it.
Not a boxer myself but I do love the sport so it was cool to watch this history lesson..
Thanks coach Tony! it was a great history I learned from boxing👍, a man can fight that long for 7hrs, without refusing to give up, now I believed that man's will, will make a difference in his life.
Thank you for covering this. House of Devlin and Pugilisticus Britannicus have good videos on RUclips about these old techniques. Truly a lost art that doesn't get the spotlight it deserves. Also, American Prize Ring on RUclips actually does fights under the London Prize Ring ruleset.
Also EnglishMartialArts is well versed in the topic.
Fascinating !!! Great segment
Amazing content. Incredible topic 🔥
Something not mentioned is that old timey boxers didn’t really duck and weave. You could block punches but it was considered unsporting to dance around. When slipping became a thing, the guard moved back towards the body
Old-school boxing concepts still show up from time to time. George Foreman's "long guard" style and Rorberto Duran's "punching wrestler" styles would have been well at home in the older days of boxing, methinks (just modified to account for the lack of wraps and gloves.
this was an amazing video, thank you for explaining this.
Thanks Tony, that was pretty informative and interesting..
They must have had an UNGODLY amount of stamina to go for 100+ rounds that's just insane to even think about!
From what I understand, the older style was more about protecting yourself from body shots rather then the head. When it came to bare knuckle vs the head, the bones in the hand will break against the skull most of the time. I’ve been told by a bud that gloves add weight to the punch. Adding more force while also protecting the hands an lessening the chances of cutting, which is why Modern Boxing focuses on guarding the head rather then the body cause of the gloves saving the hands.
The force of the punch doesn't come from the weight of the hands. Rocky Marciano has one of the smallest hands in his division and yet he KOs his opponents left and right. It's all about the hips and how fast your can tense your muscles at the moment of impact.
I know that it all the real power comes from the foot work. I was just referring to what a buddy brought up that gloves add weight to the punch. It might not be much, depending on the size of the gloves it would make all the difference.
Gloves can still cut, while Liston broke a man’s jaw with them.
Real fighters don't need to keep their guard up and chin down we can just move our head out of the way. It seems rare for anyone to fight like that these days? Everyone just keeps their hands up and hides their head behind? Pretty boring to watch in my opinion.
I can understand not tucking in the chin, or protecting your temple for MMA or street fights because it constricting if not second nature. Thing it common for modern boxers just to make them a smaller target ideally. Worked for Mayweather, but bare knuckled like the above, they still cover their chin. Each there own really.
@@br.m Given the use of first person, when did you fight?
Brilliant channel mate
Super interesting! Awesome video dude!
Just one thing Tony, the 111 rounds fight was in 1893, not 1983 😅
Yeah I was thinking, I know they when past 12 rounds in the Rocky films but 111, nah 😄
Yes mate you are correct it is 1883, mispronounced the first one, but later at the video I mentioned it was 1883.
Did you enjoy the rest of the video?
@@Tony_Jeffries yes of course i did, i follow you since the beginning of your channel. Thanks for your videos
I like the traditional boxing style. Notbing like getting schooled by classic gentlemen fighting.
Great video. Thank you!
Congratulations on the million subs Tony. I wish you all the best and I got nothing but love and respect for you brother
Thank you mate, means a lot 🙏🏻 Can't do it with out your support 🥊
As someone who boxes a bit myself I can get how not using gloves may actually be less damaging. The gloves give you the freedom to throw every punch full force without injury to your hand.
But punching without it you're way more cautious as a full force jap or swing hurts or can even break something; especially against a hard skull. It's also more concentrated while a gloves has a much larger surface area causing the punch to hit more of you than a fist.
That extra force a boxer can add into a punch is often more than any protection the glove padding will give you who gets hit with it; esp when every punch isn't held back. You feel the wallop on every hit when you spar.
I got knocked in the head twice recently by a decent fighter in a spar, and I was wearing head gear and still had vertigo for like 2 days. I've been punched raw in the head before and it didn't have as much impact.
It's like when I was playing rugby we saw way less significant injuries than the (american)football team, the pads made people too comfortable launching themselves in football
I've never been in a situation for it, but I always wondered if a punch to the head could be defeated by just presenting the arch of my forehead to the incoming fist. I guess it's the followup that would worry me if I ever did that.
From what I've heard from FightTips (I believe, it's been a while), that old boxing stance in Ireland was also implemented to focus on palmstrikes and scratching. I might be remembering this wrong though.
You are right. They had to fight in this way because they did not use any gloves
Palmstrikes are bloody. Cf hellenik fighting style
As someone who learned boxing and kung fu if I wasn't wearing gloves and I could Palm strike I would switch my hand stances because it's almost identical to Kung Fu as I know it
Saw the fight tips video. He was wrong and later admitted it as i recall. They preferred to strike with fists. The palming thing was a dirty trick. It was legal but not primary. Gloved boxers also do it as trick, thoughts illegal
That was great! Thank you.
Great video mate,cheers✌️
Joe Louis had the perfect mix of old and new in his style
Great video Tony! I tried unsuccessfully to articulate a question to you about this style of boxing. I incorrectly thought it was an eastern European style. Your video more than answered all my questions, thanks.
Happy to help ma friend 🥊 If u don’t mind, could u please share this vid on ya social media please. Will really help me out :) All good if not 👊🏻
great teacher thank you Mr Jeffries.
The arc of boxing is a phenomenal book that details all of this
Not really into historical boxing myself, but Bartitsu was originally developed in England in 1898-1902 and footwork was king back then too, and not only for the Savate kicks and cane work it included, but as well for the basics of boxing.
So I am pretty sure that foot work as king back in the golden days for boxing too. But considering how many people forget about foot work even today ... I am sure that problem was at least just as common back then.
Bartitsu was fucking cool
This is a very interesting topic. I've always wondered why the old time boxers used that stance. Those guys were tough as nails. They would go until someone got knocked out, physically couldn't take any more damage or they became to exhausted to go on. Thanks for posting! 👍✌
'hard' as nails - have you ever heard of a 'tough' nail? lol
@@GaZonk100 No, "tough as nails" is also very much a saying. Look it up
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 I don't need to look it up - it's a bad simile; old boots are 'tough'; cheap steaks are 'tough'; nails are 'hard'. . .you would look stupid asking for 'tough' nails in a hardware store, because a steel nail is not something one could apply the description 'tough' to, so whoever is using the expression is just parroting stuff they've heard used erroneously elsewhere
@@GaZonk100 I see what you're getting at, though I'd say you could certainly call a nail tough. Especially the older, larger, more robust nails. They could certainly withstan quite a beating (nails are quite literally designed to after all) and could handle rather rough conditions. That sounds like toughness to me.
And in any case It's an expression. It's meaning goes beyond mere practical reality.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 marginal. . .I'll grant you a pass this time, but please in future try to choose turns of phrase which when employed as intensifiers, hew as closely as possible to lived experience, lol
Taking up Muay Thai but found your channel very helpful in improving my form. Thank you. I'm subscribing.
Thank you for the educational video so spot on 💯
You know... I love martial arts history. Boxing to me is a martial art... people don't really talk much about boxing history. Thank for the lesson!
It IS a martial art, wrestling is a martial art... all systems of melee combat are a martial art.
My answer to the question before having watched your explanation: In the old way the arms point directly towards the target and do not have to be re-adjusted to hit right away. Additionally a fist seen from the front is way less visible than fists raised in a modern guard position, so it is harder for the oponent to tell if a punch is coming.
Now into the video: punching the skull with bare hands? Bad idea. As you said: high risk of hurting your hand. Punch jaw angle. Much safer for the hands as it is a softer target. In fact a k.o. happens way less often in bare knuckle boxing.
Thanks for sharing Ralf
Excellent video thank you. Also your description of the Onnit products was exceptional. I already use their stuff and it truly good sh!t.
Great info, thanks!
My thought is that Queensbury destroyed the European martial arts with his rules for boxing. It was once a full fledged martial art like a hands focused karate (before karate was broken in half to remove most of it's grappling.)
There are a couple of mma fighters who use classic boxing stances. It allows for high volume of punches using less gas than modern boxing. It also had take down defense.
This video and Jesse Enkemps video are very informative on the old boxing style. I practice karate and you immediately notice this stance get used a lot. It is actually more versatile than a modern boxing stance or mai tai stance because of the balance distribution. this allows for all around performance in punching, kicking and movement. Where as boxing is best for punching and movement and Mai tai is best for defense, and striking, especially close quarters. Mai tai guys use kicks elbows and knees that can basically one shot you and have a very affective defense through hand placement and low center of gravity but when it comes to moving in and out they are limited because there feet placement is very stocky. Mai tai is probably the best martial art for fighting in the ring because you can't run away from your opponent. With karate and boxing you can move around a lot more and in an open field have an advantage in a fight as long as you keep good distance management. Boxing also can be better because even though kicks are always stronger than punches they can be countered and become a detriment when you miss. Kungfu is best for weapons applications and is such a large study of martial arts that it some ways diverges from practical fighting by over emphasizing certain fighting philosophies that are affective and interesting but aren't affective unless you have very good fighting strategy beyond the necessary strategy needed for other martial arts.
So much that I wouldn't of considered. Thank you for your insight
I don’t know much about boxing, but this was very interesting and informative. Thank you.
About your point about protecting the hands while bare knuckle. The movie Gladiator (1992) shows this when the main character who has always used gloves gets challenged to a bare knuckle fight against an old school boxer (Brian Dennehy) and the first punch the main character throws, Brian's character lowers his head and the main character breaks his hand on his forehead.
This was really cool! I can really see its influence in Bartitsu!
What are your thoughts Oleksandr Usyk? He's become something of a favorite of mine since I learned about him a few months ago.
Very interesting video! Thanks!
Exelent vídeo bro.
Very well done.👍❤️
Just as a note from someone who does historical martial arts---most old sources don't include footwork because it was assumed you were learning as someone with a background in the sport. Footwork was usually an assumed skill in these types of texts.
Really interesting, mate!!
Just come across your channel a couple weeks ago, fantastic content Tony!