Hey! I’m the one who commented about Peyton Riley’s start as an unused concept in a DTV BTAS movie. I’m sorry I forgot to include a source, but I did find it! In the Batman The Animated Series Podcast/BTAS Podcast, there’s an episode about Harley’s Holiday where the host, Justin Michael, interviews and has a discussion with Paul Dini. At around 1:15:00, Dini discusses the DTV, which would’ve featured team ups with Green Arrow, Superman, Zatanna, and Plastic Man, and the Plastic Man one is where Peyton Riley’s first concept comes through
Spoilery Fun fact: In the original version of the book(The author liked the movie so much he wrote a different version of the book that followed the movie's plot closer) Roger Rabbit was the murderer and had hired the detective in a attempt to frame him.
I really like the potential of this character. A woman having to sock-puppet around a cliché depiction of a male gangster in order to gain power is interesting, and could be taken in a lot of different directions.
@@GabePuratekuta Alfred's come back from the dead before, too. Look up the Batman villain, The Outsider. IRL, Alfred had been killed off in the comics, but once he started appearing in the 60s TV series, DC brought him back in the comics, too. This Outsider story was one of the American comics that was adapted into what is commonly known as the "Batmanga" by Jiro Kuwata, originally published around the time the Adam West show was airing. I mention this because that's where I read the story, and I know that this version can still be easily purchased, whereas I don't know that to be the case for the original story.
@rei-rei all characters will come back from the dead sooner or later. Unless they're the reason for another character's origin; like uncle Ben and Bruce's parents.
I feel like Peyton has a lot of potential, in a “repeating her own trama” tragedy sort of way, it’s like a psychological Harley Quinn, I hope to see more of her in the future
A first full of felt was the GOAT. My favorite scene was when Scarface was wearing an oversized costume of Mr. Snoots, and nobody notices. My brother and I quote “kid, touch me and I will destroy you” to each other years later.
Wasn't aware of this version, but I really like her! That artifical, seemingly-wooden smile really gets across the point that Peyton was the puppet & Scareface was the one pulling the strings!
Here in the modern age, I wonder if you could do a version of the Ventriloquist that is partially virtual? Imagine a mob boss that gives orders and directions via phone calls, texts, chats, etc. A sort of 'Big Brother' type legendary figure. If you have hired goons, do you even have to show up personally to threaten your rivals anymore? A villain with almost no physical presence or location who works almost entirely via hirelings and proxies might be an interesting challenge for Batman. You could even do a bit where the Ventriloquist is tracked down... only for Batman to find an abandoned doll next to a microphone or similar.
You kinda described Junior, one of Ragdoll's 2 kids who became a nasty "Big Bad" for the Secret Six. The supernatural element was relatively minimal. It was just the McGuffin that was magic, everything that happened in the story was somewhat "grounded" so it could have worked with Batman. Junior is so demented, and can scare a huge part of the US from a cave with just a phone and a big mall in. If you're brought there by Junior's henchmen, what happens to you ("for the family" tape confession and all, you know...)damn, I can't make it justice just writing it down.
@@cybrid37 , fair enough; but a mob boss can call themselves whatever they want, and in my personal case it would help me suspend belief about a bunch of thugs obeying a crazy man with a puppet. Could even call the story “V for Ventriloquist”
@@gamelairtim Sorry, man, but the Scarface puppet needs to make a physical appearance if "the Ventriloquist" character is ever going to work. Reinventing him to be some sort of formless digital entity that hires goons to do his dirty work just brings up more questions than answers (i.e. where'd he get the money to do anything? why/how would his goons even take him seriously in the first place if they never even met him? How exactly does "The Ventriloquist" theme come into the nature or theatrics of his crime? If he doesn't even use a puppet, why even call him "The Ventriloquist"? etc". What you just described in your original comment reminds me more of Anarchy than anything else tbh. Its more believable for people to follow a mysterious entity because they resonate with his ideas.
It could have been interesting to see an issue or an arc with Peyton Riley interacting with Harvey Dent - not necessarily them dating, competing in some way also works, though that's an option, but they have *just enough* in common for a writer to potentially do cool things with. One idea that just popped into my head is that one personality of each really like each other, while the other personalities do not get along (e.g. Two-Face and Peyton are falling in love, while Harvey and Scarface hate each other).
Maybe this version could make a appearance in Batman Caped Crusader. It's not a genderbent like Penguin, more of a using Firebug over Firefly type of thing.
Peyton could be fun in this newfangled Caped Crusader series. A gangster's daughter is looked after by a mafia club's opening act, a struggling ventriloquist. The girl shows a flair for the art, they grow close. She also learns about the criminal underworld and shows a flair for that too. Turning eighteen and wanting to debut as Uncle Arnold's partner, Peyton is instead married off to her crime boss father's rival's son to "secure" things. Cue the unhappy abusive marriage and dreams of stardom crushed. But Uncle Arnold gave Peyton a wedding gift. A dummy, carved by his own hand, of a gangster. Their little secret. When Peyton ends up scarred by her beau, she scars the dummy in kind and takes up the Tommy gun, her animus and anima split, and hell hath no fury like a dame scorned. Play them like Bonnie and Clyde, and it lets Arnold take in a more traditional sympathetic role as her caregiver for a time and the man that wants to try to save her and help her through her trauma, putting him (and her) at odds with Scarface himself.
Honestly I love this idea. This premise alone is such a creative and fresh way of depicting the character. I especially love the idea of Wesker being a mentor and kind hearted tutor for Peyton which feels like a more organic way to tie both them together. Plus they can play into the idea of Arnold representing her angel on her shoulder/hand and Scarface as the devil on her shoulder/hand. Since the new Caped Crusader show has new darker takes on classic characters, I'd love to see they're spin on the Ventriloquist and Scarface by using Peyton Riley instead, since we've seen Arnold amd Scarface in previous adaptations before
I personally love the idea of Scarface having multiple Ventriloquists. It really adds to the dark mystique of the alter ego. And the fact that both Ventriloquists were broken children of crime families doesn't hurt either. I'm also a fan of the tragic ending. Not every tragic, smoking hot villainess can be saved.
I think what's funny is that I didn't know that this version existed... Untill I played Arkham Knight, and the Police museum of evidence they had listed her as the most recent owner of the Scarface puppet. Even though she's new, she's still a deep cut. ("The Temp" huh, someone at DC should right that down... Or me! lol)
I do like Peyton, she was very different from Arnold obviously, but also had enough to stand on herself rather than just being derivative. Plus I do much prefere legacy characters over reviving/unreforming villains. I think it'd be interesting if she had taken the roll while Arnold was still alive, either both of them fighting over this persona or if reformed Arnold having to deal with his demons again, even now where it seems to have literally scaped his grasp
I really like this character actually, the fake smile being uncanny with the dead stare and her using the puppet as not only a way to retake her gang life but as an unhealthy outlet to reenact her love life trauma is really interesting and definitely fits the vibe of a Batman villain
I know that Arnold Wesker is iconic, but I kinda want to see more people wilding Scarface. I like the idea that Scarface isn't just a puppet and that there might be something else going on. The first season of Batman Caped Crusader came out. Maybe, in season 2 they can introduce Arnold Wesker and Scarface and later on someone else (probably Paton) can take on the role of Ventriloquist.
I really liked Peyton, I remember reading these issues as they came out and definitely felt like they were planning on bringing her back. I think she had a lot of untapped potential.
She is fantastic and I wish they did more with her. I love that the dummy adds a classic horror vibe while Peyton herself give new horror vibes, as her smile is so fake and unsettling just like the dummy’s. I would especially love to see her in Batman the Caped Crusader
Speaking of which, you should do a video on which villains should be in season 2. I have a long list lol: Peyton, Baby Boom, Curare, Scarecrow & Scream Queen, Spook, Signalman, Enemy Ace, Miss Tuesday & Autumn, Royal Flush Gang, Enchantress, Solomon Grundy, Tusk & Carpenter, Hummingbird & Cassowary Sisters, Harvest, Sandman, Thorn, and Hazard
I want to see more of her. If the Ventriloquist is set to appear in Caped Crusader I hope, it's her. She fits in with the aesthetic and era of the show.
I really like her unsettling vibe in her first appearance I wish they would've leaned into it later as well. With Wesker the ventriloquist is almost like a harmless old man which has its own interesting horror to it but it's rare that the ventriloquist is as creepy as the puppet and its fun here with peyton riley.
I like when you don’t actually know if Scarface is alive or not, but if I had to choose one I’d be him being an actual dummy and a fragment of a scarred psyche. Also, I like the appearance of Lock-Up. Nice to see obscure references to BTAS or references in general. I feel like not a lot of the new characters really stuck around. Livewire and Harley seem like the most prominent ones to make it to comics.
I liked her, if only because Batman is kind of low on female villians, since Selina, Ivy and Harley all turned anti-hero, then again i have not read anything whit the new female ventriloquist
I've had a plastic ventriloquist doll since I was a kid, who now sits next to my studio microphone so I have someone to talk to directly when I'm doing voice work. Many have commented that he is rather creepy...
I actually love this idea as a continuation of the character. The idea of another human finding a connection to Scarface/Scarface finding a new "host" is interesting and I like the idea of her having a brief but poignant moment of connection with the original ventriloquist before his passing to cement it.
The character does have potential. It always interesting to see how Bruce’s circle of friends become something; Hush, The Phantasm, maybe Zantana and Catwoman.
Paul Dini's Detective Comics run dwelt with Gotham's past in quite a few stories. He expanded it beyond cesspool of crime run by the mob and added stuff like the 4 families that built Gotham (Wayne, Cobblepott, Elliot, and one other), the Waynes being close friends with the Zatara's, and that Ra's al Ghul had a hand in designing the city. Payton was just a vehicle Dini used to explain all this. Even though I thought this was all interesting, it all got blown away by Scott Snyder's Court of Owls arc and that has been the basis for most of Gotham's history. Because of this, the Payton Riley Ventriloquist fell into obscurity.
Finding out that stuff in the comics was written by Dini, and then kinda pushed aside by Scott Snyder’s New 52 stuff actually makes the game Arkham City a bit neater in my eyes, given it was also mainly written by Dini. Especially Ra’s Al Ghül’s connection to the founding of Gotham
I really liked the storyline in which she debuts, and I love the Don Kramer art where she first reveals her eye--it's so good! I'd love to see her pop up in different Bat-universes, her dual persona is of a different nature than Wesker and it's an interesting take I'd like to see explored even further. (Also, if she were a classic Wonder Woman villain, she'd just be wearing the Scarface suit 😉)
I really enjoy these forays into 'Sasha's Hall of Obscure and Forgotten Baddies'...although I would love to see you do some obscure villains from other heroes' rogue galleries....
I love old Hollywood gangster talk. I can tell you had fun voicing Scarface. "Yes" to more Peyton. Dat dame is like candy laced wit poison. Cue Bel Biv Devoe, lol!
AYYYY PAUL DINI AGAIN!~ YAY! I literally watched your last video on Two-Face, made a comment for a video on Paul Dini, THEN watched this video after, and BAM he's back! IT'S A SIGN!
Similar to your video of how in a way The Batman 2004 was a possible inspiration for the Batman Who Laughs, would you be interested in talking about how it may have also influenced Failsafe with the AI D.A.V.E. created by Hugo Strange in the show?
I've wondered about her for years. I have this amazing poster I bought like 15 years ago of all of batman rogues gallery and she is the one holding scar face in the poster. I've always thought it was wierd because everyone else are the classic villains you would think of except for her. I always assumed she must have been a bigger deal than I realized even though I had only read a couple appearances in the hush line.
Had not known about Peyton, but now I quite like her. The Wexler version always seemed a bit one note to me. I like how Peyton and Scarface feel like a partnership. Have to track down those issues.
9:15 her original comic strip, kind of makes her look like a doll like a Barbie doll that’s forced to smile, but here she does indeed look like fam-fatale
Great Video! I have to say I really enjoyed the few appearances that Ventriloquist 2 had. She was a tragic character that they could have easily kept around. On a side note, I had really just come back to Batman comics after a long break when Dini was writing Detective. I so loved what he along with Dustin and Derek did with 843 and 844, that Peyton (with Scarface) ended up being the 2nd sketch in my sketchbook from my first comic con. In this case being drawn by Derek Fridolfs. Anytime anyone flips through Peyton is usually the first sketch anyone sees (since page one has the habit of grabbing onto the cover). This alone has kept the character in my memory.
I really like both versions of the ventriloquist, and i think (and hope) they could bring peyton back in a new cartoon as THE ventriloquist. (So we can have 2 'canon' ventriloquists)
I kinda like the idea of the cursed wood, assuming its not a full posession and more of a strengtening factor, latching on to people who are already mentally unstable and forcing them to put all their bad thoughts and habits into the puppet. Because otherwhise I would say that it happening twiuce with two totally diferent people is a BIT convienient.
this is by FAR my favorite dye job/wig (i never was able to figure out which one u rock, LOL.) either way. i really, REALLY dig this candycane look. really smexy
I wouldn't mind Peyton's version showing up the Harley Quinn TAS. Plus, I would live to see a vid on the second female Ventriloquist and why she failed. I wouldn't mind a female version take on Batgirl and Batwoman.
I loved your background research on ventriloquism horror stories! Paul Dini's run in Detective Comics isn't brought up a lot, but I really like it, despite the surprisingly (considering Dini is the writer) questionable morality of the Batfam in it, compared to the reference (Batman not caring about collateral damage in the Iceberg Lounge, the full "Batman movie" way to deal with villains in the Hush arc, etc).
Hey so I know this comment might get buried but I just wanted to ask you your thoughts on the New Fantastic Four Run, if feel it's moving more towards plausible science and it is episodic in nature. I think you might like stories which get done and dusted within like 2 issues at most. There's also a real good focus in the family as a team aspect.
I'm sorry I missed this character. I'm gonna try and track down the issues - the Ventriloquist was always a favorite from BTAS, and I'd like to see more. Batman vs classic gangsters was always a win for me - old money two ways.
Peyton is honestly my favorite Ventriloquist. I always love seeing characters that really dive into the different effects and manifestations of abuse and trauma. The way Peyton perpetuates her own abuse and self-loathing through Scarface honestly hit really close to home, and just made me want good things for her. Unfortunately we all know how that turned out 😭 I'd love to see her get a new lease on life and someday have the happiness she deserves.
2 things one the new ventriloquist is very concerning because she did shit with the puppet. And the second I like the red and white hair style Sasha it's nice it looks kinda like a candy cane .
Holy crap, never expected the mention of Wolf's Complete Book of Terror! There was a copy at the tony local library I worked at for several years. It always fascinated me!
Maybe a reach or coincidence but in the Batman Hush animated movie Tommy Elliot's date to the opera is a blonde woman in a red dress very similar to Peyton but no scar. This may be the closest she got to an animated cameo/Easter egg. As others have also mentioned she would fit right in the current Caped Crusader cartoon given her and the show's aesthetic. I personally liked her and wish she could have gotten more but even still she felt like Dini trying to do another "Harley Quinn" in a lovely blonde woman in a toxic relationship with a criminal but more Mafia than clown themed. I still wish more was done with her if only to give Wesker some peace while personally wasn't impressed with Shauna and her powerset that made her feel more Puppeteer than Ventriloquist.
Nothing's going to beat the original, but I think there's value in letting different people use the dummy. There's a lot of fun angles to take with the Ventriloquist and Scarface, and there are some you can't really do with Wesker.
I really like the idea that ventriloquist is the puppet controlling the puppeteer in someway most likely magically because if it really is either a doll with a mind of its own that controls its puppeteer or somehow magical and exerts influence on people to make them act in ways they otherwise wouldn’t that is more interesting than someone dissociating a second personality onto the puppet
You know, it might not happen, but Caped Crusader is trying new things, it would be cool to see that show re-establish Payton and Scarface, plus giving her first animated appearance
On the topic of her team up with Harley Quinn I don't think she could have been a redemption story like Harley because unlike Harley who suffered Joker emotionally manipulating and emphasizing her instabilities into committing crime, Peyton Riley chose to become a mob boss herself and her own trauma and delusion simply gave her a means to deflect in the dummy. Of course Wesker is generally a mild and kind man with a horrific alternate and when the latter is dealt with the former can be redeemable but I feel like Riley's alternate is much more complimentary to her. Maybe the reason she comes across as just a mobster sometimes and not some tragic character is that even without the tragedy and puppet she'd still be a mobster.
It might be interesting to bring Peyton back as a PRIMARILY Zatanna villain, and was thinking having her learn some magic so that Scarface could move autonomously would be an interesting upgrade to the gimmick, looks like Shauna beat her to that. But another idea did occur to me that would be delightfully absurd. Have Peyton team up with Baby-doll (Mary Dahl), and Baby-doll could dress up AS Scarface from time to time as a way to fake the idea that the puppet has become autonomous. Peyton could even learn to mimic Baby-dolls voice as well, maybe even craft an eerily lifelike doll version of her, as a way to further the ruse. Run it as this sort of shell game scenario of "Who's actually running things here?" Is it Peyton? Mary? SCARFACE? And just adding this element of POTENTIAL supernatural powers (and a slightly upped game with tech and stage magic) together with both Mary and Peyton being known psychos could create a wonderfully tense mystery and threat.
You want to see a freaky, disturbing ventriloquist movie, catch Dead Silence from 2007. I would love to see Peyton return, maybe as a Black Lantern and create a whole town of town of dolls that she controls with the ring.
Another bit of Dc stuff that's so many years ago now that I'd honestly forgotten it. And yet I still remember Shauna Belzer quite well. I think it was the novelty of her not being Arnold Wesker that made her stick for me. But if so, why didn't I remember Peyton? That's curious. I think she could have caught on, but she seems to be the kind of character who starts off big and then just gets forgotten about as creators change and company plans do also.
She was interesting, maybe she could be one of the Absolute Batman's villains, and she is already a major crime boss. Batman has so many great villains, they could concentrate on the minor ones more, instead of yet more versions of the usual suspects.
Peyton is a really neat character in my book. I could imagine her being written much the same or as an apprentice type character to the first ventriloquist if she ever came back.
The Ventriloquist is an example of one of my favorite / most hated tropes in comics, "the question mark." In this case it's, is the dummy (doll) really self-animated, does it have a life of it's own? Or is it a creation of their partner? I think this is a marvelous thing when the question walks the fine line of is it, or isn't it. But all too often someone will later come along and answer the question. My favorite example of this done right, I think, then defamed, is "The Elf with a Gun" ("The Reason is No Reason") story arc from Defenders. As always thank you so very much for the video. And is Alvin a Tonk? There are several in our family, and they all like to talk.
I'd never heard of Payton but already I'm thinking a cool twist would be to have both her and Arnold be the Ventriloquist. Not different versions or at different times but rather the same Scarface, a blending of the two. They could become a wacky, only-in-Gotham, thruple.
I liked Peyton. I thought her intros was very well done, it’s a shame her other stories didn’t live up to that standard. She could have been a more dangerous version of the Ventriloquist, since she was clearly far more savage than Wesker, even without using Scarface as an outlet. And her mob ties and background could have added a lot more to her damaged psyche. Plus, the implied relationship she had with Scarface was disturbing in a different way. Arnold was loyal to Scarface but was scared of him. Peyton was loyal but loved him and - in the early stories anyway - Scarface cared about her more than he ever did about Arnold.
Honestly I like the idea of Scarface having multiple Ventriloquists so to me it doesn't really matter if it's Wesker or Peyton or Belzer or whoever. The idea is that Scarface is the villain, and while that might sound like it's patronizing the reader a little bit, the illusion is what sells the character.
I like the idea that the dummy is made of something that, while not haunted, kinda promotes such vile behavior in its user, like its existence in their hands is enough to create the personality of Scarface in their heads. So, kinda possession but not really?
Tbh, I always thought The Riddler and The Question buddie book could have been a great miniseries. Someone who asks too many questions that partners with someone who makes a lot of riddles.
👑 idk if this is anything, but we're someone with diagnosed OSDD (DID with no memory loss), or, sigh, "split personality" (outdated term), and we've sorta noticed how Paul Dini in particular has a complicated relationship with alters. He's the one who wrote this, the Batman Beyond Movie where Tim gets possessed by The Joker, part of the BTAS episode where part of Clayface splits off into a girl, the Ventriloquist episode where he gets "cured" through repressing his alter, etc. Our problem with Peyton (along with most of the Ventriloquist stories, actually) is that most of them imply the solution for reform is to get rid of/suppress Scarface/the puppet/etc. Speaking as someone who literally is a system, that's not how it works, lmao. And in fact, it's a bit of an ableist trope that implies that the alter isn't a real person, ergo, they can be as evil as possible as long as they're either annihilated from existence or it all ends in tragedy. We have 20 bitches in this head and our first instinct with a problem causer is to assist, adjust, and help them get better. Yeah, Scarface's puppet shit is dumb, but he is a person to us, and The Ventriloquist isn't ever going to get better if that fact isn't addressed. We'd personally love for Peyton as a character to return, but ah, maybe not in the hands of someone who doesn't have the best track record with our condition, lmao. Peyton would honestly work better as a Batman character who gets DID who reforms and works with it, because honestly that universe is littered with evil murder alter systems that make it damn near impossible for us to get into it. Someone on tumblr made an AU where she finds another doll and still keeps the doll persona, but tries living her days out better, give us that lol - Pandora
I believe that would be difficult. Because Scarface is (usually) a pure evil character with no redeeming qualities, often abusing his puppeteer as they are too weak to fight back. So no redeeming this guy. Any type of redemption will probably feel forced, at least to me. I have no problem with pure evil alters! But the idea of Payton getting a new puppet sounds very interesting and unique! If they bring back Payton, let's hope that this will be her method of recovery in the future. It's a better representation of DID, as it's not a disorder that could be 'cured' (But it's comics, so don't hope too much).
👑 Hey did someone respond to this post?? It keeps showing in our notifications but we can't actually see it here for some reason? It mentioned that Scarface was meant to be pure evil and irredeemable, and we wanted to reply to it because that was our point about how plurality is often demonized? Scarface is pure irredeemable evil BECAUSE he's an alter in a fictional story. He's in a nebulous space where he's considered both "not real" and "pure evil" at the same time, because plurality isn't seen as a valid condition to coexist with healthily in fiction. So all negative traits sort of get shoved onto him to justify him being suppressed or never redeemed, just like... honestly every other plural character in batman stories honestly. And we get it, can't take it TOO seriously because it is comic books. It's just that batman does this trope so consistently with little positive depictions to jump off of, you know? Why do we have to read Gotham Academy and then get flashbanged by "the main protagonists mom has a serial killer split personality and the daughter will get it too" suihskjshf
I have a fixation with both systems and Batman villains, and have been using both to better educate myself on disorders and work on writing. My rewrite of System! Arnold and Scarface has Scarface as acting as more of a Persecutor who understands he's in the City of Crime. Having been raised in a crime family, he's a more "yes man"- basically growing up he'd go along with what the family wanted in hopes of them (he and Arnold) being hurt less. Because of this, he feels that he and Arnold have to be mob bosses to stay afloat (at least they're less likely to be taken advantage of if they're the ones on top). The abu$e he hurls at Arnold is more projection and him "trying to toughen him up" (No, this does not make his abu$e okay; it gives reason as to why he does it tho instead of just "oOoOo aLters Evilllll"). One could also add everyone saying Scarface is "not real" and "needs to be gotten rid of" as further motivation for him hurling abu$e at Arnold (who one could write as believing everyone and therefore also show the damage that mindset can have on a system) and why he continues to act the way he does- he's also trying to prove that he is indeed real and needed. (And this is all without getting into the potential adding the other alters such as Socko and Mister Snoots can do) Peyton doesn't interest me as much as Arnold and Scarface so I haven't thought much about her and Scarface's dynamic, but if I were to make up something as I'm typing this down.. Perhaps her Scarface is an introject of the Scarface that's with Arnold- seeing as they're both mob children, I wouldn't be surprised if they met at least once at a gathering. Because introjects aren't always exactly as their sources, that explains why he behaves slightly nicer to Peyton.
in this age of female characters getting more of a focus than they used to, I would love to see her take over the role by default in the new DC Cinematic thing they're doing
Hey! I’m the one who commented about Peyton Riley’s start as an unused concept in a DTV BTAS movie. I’m sorry I forgot to include a source, but I did find it! In the Batman The Animated Series Podcast/BTAS Podcast, there’s an episode about Harley’s Holiday where the host, Justin Michael, interviews and has a discussion with Paul Dini. At around 1:15:00, Dini discusses the DTV, which would’ve featured team ups with Green Arrow, Superman, Zatanna, and Plastic Man, and the Plastic Man one is where Peyton Riley’s first concept comes through
Not all heroes wear capes!
@@CasuallyComics Thank you!
This is such a sweet exchange X-D
Paul Dini will always ensure that any character he writes will somehow encounter Zatanna.
As a Zatanna fan, I thank him for it
Im not complaining😂
well. he did marry Zee after all
Everyone loves a leggy dame in tights!
There is a connection to made between ventriloquist and magicians; both stage acts
"The death of Wesker was portrayed as a mystery: who shot him?"
Okay, this time it was definitely Roger Rabbit.
"P-patty-cake? P-p-p-patty cakes?! PATTY CAKE!!!"
Spoilery Fun fact:
In the original version of the book(The author liked the movie so much he wrote a different version of the book that followed the movie's plot closer) Roger Rabbit was the murderer and had hired the detective in a attempt to frame him.
@@Draqer
Really? I knew that he wrote a Second Book but didn't know Roger was The Murderer in that version
I like the implication that Scarface is actually real but it should never be more than an implication. Don't make it the next Joker falling into acid.
I really like the potential of this character. A woman having to sock-puppet around a cliché depiction of a male gangster in order to gain power is interesting, and could be taken in a lot of different directions.
"Your father may be the head of the family, but I am his neck." - My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
"Why would this beautiful woman be attached to this dummy?"
Someday I hope to be the dummy to whom that question refers.
Ha ha ha!
"He makes me laugh." -- Jessica Rabbit
In the movie, anyway. The original novel was VERY different.
@@KasumiKenshirou I didn’t even know the movie came from a novel 😦
@@keistopherc Yes, it was called "Who Censored Roger Rabbit?" and was based on characters from comic strips rather than animated cartoons.
Wait, a Batman villain had a fall-to-their-death scene ... and STAYED DEAD? Is that allowed?
Of course not! Only Alfred is allowed to stay dead.
@@GabePuratekuta I can't help feeling this comment is going to age poorly.
@@GabePuratekuta Alfred's come back from the dead before, too. Look up the Batman villain, The Outsider. IRL, Alfred had been killed off in the comics, but once he started appearing in the 60s TV series, DC brought him back in the comics, too.
This Outsider story was one of the American comics that was adapted into what is commonly known as the "Batmanga" by Jiro Kuwata, originally published around the time the Adam West show was airing. I mention this because that's where I read the story, and I know that this version can still be easily purchased, whereas I don't know that to be the case for the original story.
@rei-rei all characters will come back from the dead sooner or later. Unless they're the reason for another character's origin; like uncle Ben and Bruce's parents.
@@insertname9736 Explain why Alfred still hasn't come back, then.
I feel like Peyton has a lot of potential, in a “repeating her own trama” tragedy sort of way, it’s like a psychological Harley Quinn, I hope to see more of her in the future
I keep thinking of when The Batman had Scarface fight to the death vs a Muppet, which ended up killing Scarface
Great episode
Brilliant episode
When and where was that?
@@domeen0gt895 it was Episode 4 of the 3rd season of The Batman 2004 called "A Fistful of Felt"
A first full of felt was the GOAT. My favorite scene was when Scarface was wearing an oversized costume of Mr. Snoots, and nobody notices.
My brother and I quote “kid, touch me and I will destroy you” to each other years later.
Wasn't aware of this version, but I really like her! That artifical, seemingly-wooden smile really gets across the point that Peyton was the puppet & Scareface was the one pulling the strings!
Her scarred eye being hidden by her hair is also a great detail
Here in the modern age, I wonder if you could do a version of the Ventriloquist that is partially virtual? Imagine a mob boss that gives orders and directions via phone calls, texts, chats, etc. A sort of 'Big Brother' type legendary figure. If you have hired goons, do you even have to show up personally to threaten your rivals anymore? A villain with almost no physical presence or location who works almost entirely via hirelings and proxies might be an interesting challenge for Batman. You could even do a bit where the Ventriloquist is tracked down... only for Batman to find an abandoned doll next to a microphone or similar.
You kinda described Junior, one of Ragdoll's 2 kids who became a nasty "Big Bad" for the Secret Six. The supernatural element was relatively minimal. It was just the McGuffin that was magic, everything that happened in the story was somewhat "grounded" so it could have worked with Batman.
Junior is so demented, and can scare a huge part of the US from a cave with just a phone and a big mall in.
If you're brought there by Junior's henchmen, what happens to you ("for the family" tape confession and all, you know...)damn, I can't make it justice just writing it down.
Modern ventriloquist is a Vtuber
Bruh, thats no longer the Ventriloquist.
Thats just the V-Tuber.
@@cybrid37 , fair enough; but a mob boss can call themselves whatever they want, and in my personal case it would help me suspend belief about a bunch of thugs obeying a crazy man with a puppet.
Could even call the story “V for Ventriloquist”
@@gamelairtim Sorry, man, but the Scarface puppet needs to make a physical appearance if "the Ventriloquist" character is ever going to work. Reinventing him to be some sort of formless digital entity that hires goons to do his dirty work just brings up more questions than answers (i.e. where'd he get the money to do anything? why/how would his goons even take him seriously in the first place if they never even met him? How exactly does "The Ventriloquist" theme come into the nature or theatrics of his crime? If he doesn't even use a puppet, why even call him "The Ventriloquist"? etc".
What you just described in your original comment reminds me more of Anarchy than anything else tbh. Its more believable for people to follow a mysterious entity because they resonate with his ideas.
It could have been interesting to see an issue or an arc with Peyton Riley interacting with Harvey Dent - not necessarily them dating, competing in some way also works, though that's an option, but they have *just enough* in common for a writer to potentially do cool things with. One idea that just popped into my head is that one personality of each really like each other, while the other personalities do not get along (e.g. Two-Face and Peyton are falling in love, while Harvey and Scarface hate each other).
Maybe this version could make a appearance in Batman Caped Crusader. It's not a genderbent like Penguin, more of a using Firebug over Firefly type of thing.
Who do you think should voice her?
@@Guilty-Gearer-Does-Things Renee Zellweger
@@Quackervoltz Nice choice
I agree.
@@CommentingCommenter I was thinking Tara Platt, but Renee works too
Peyton could be fun in this newfangled Caped Crusader series.
A gangster's daughter is looked after by a mafia club's opening act, a struggling ventriloquist. The girl shows a flair for the art, they grow close. She also learns about the criminal underworld and shows a flair for that too.
Turning eighteen and wanting to debut as Uncle Arnold's partner, Peyton is instead married off to her crime boss father's rival's son to "secure" things. Cue the unhappy abusive marriage and dreams of stardom crushed.
But Uncle Arnold gave Peyton a wedding gift. A dummy, carved by his own hand, of a gangster. Their little secret.
When Peyton ends up scarred by her beau, she scars the dummy in kind and takes up the Tommy gun, her animus and anima split, and hell hath no fury like a dame scorned.
Play them like Bonnie and Clyde, and it lets Arnold take in a more traditional sympathetic role as her caregiver for a time and the man that wants to try to save her and help her through her trauma, putting him (and her) at odds with Scarface himself.
Honestly I love this idea. This premise alone is such a creative and fresh way of depicting the character. I especially love the idea of Wesker being a mentor and kind hearted tutor for Peyton which feels like a more organic way to tie both them together. Plus they can play into the idea of Arnold representing her angel on her shoulder/hand and Scarface as the devil on her shoulder/hand. Since the new Caped Crusader show has new darker takes on classic characters, I'd love to see they're spin on the Ventriloquist and Scarface by using Peyton Riley instead, since we've seen Arnold amd Scarface in previous adaptations before
That would be cool.
Hire this man!
Yes! She'd fit in very well with the Caped Crusader setting.
That is an *excellent* story, and I’d love to see someone give it a shot!
I personally love the idea of Scarface having multiple Ventriloquists. It really adds to the dark mystique of the alter ego. And the fact that both Ventriloquists were broken children of crime families doesn't hurt either. I'm also a fan of the tragic ending. Not every tragic, smoking hot villainess can be saved.
Wouldn’t it be funny if it turns out Alvin was Sasha own Mr. Scarface, a split personality than Sasha was projecting with ventriloquism lol
Lol I was Alvin the whole time
I think what's funny is that I didn't know that this version existed... Untill I played Arkham Knight, and the Police museum of evidence they had listed her as the most recent owner of the Scarface puppet. Even though she's new, she's still a deep cut.
("The Temp" huh, someone at DC should right that down... Or me! lol)
I do like Peyton, she was very different from Arnold obviously, but also had enough to stand on herself rather than just being derivative.
Plus I do much prefere legacy characters over reviving/unreforming villains. I think it'd be interesting if she had taken the roll while Arnold was still alive, either both of them fighting over this persona or if reformed Arnold having to deal with his demons again, even now where it seems to have literally scaped his grasp
I really like this character actually, the fake smile being uncanny with the dead stare and her using the puppet as not only a way to retake her gang life but as an unhealthy outlet to reenact her love life trauma is really interesting and definitely fits the vibe of a Batman villain
I know that Arnold Wesker is iconic, but I kinda want to see more people wilding Scarface. I like the idea that Scarface isn't just a puppet and that there might be something else going on. The first season of Batman Caped Crusader came out. Maybe, in season 2 they can introduce Arnold Wesker and Scarface and later on someone else (probably Paton) can take on the role of Ventriloquist.
It seems like a very, very obvious clickbait cover to have Batman using the Scarface puppet, I'm almost surprised it hasn't happened yet!
@@KolyarutEven better, on the cover Batman is trying to wrestling Scarface away from Matches Malone (who's maybe holding Bruce Wayne at gunpoint)
Love the red and blonde hair, it's really 🔥
Plus love when you read along and really love the different voices.
I really liked Peyton, I remember reading these issues as they came out and definitely felt like they were planning on bringing her back. I think she had a lot of untapped potential.
Can we do a video about reformed riddler?
the best riddler
Who is stopping you?
@@drow_Lilith9940 Yes agreed best Riddler!
She is fantastic and I wish they did more with her. I love that the dummy adds a classic horror vibe while Peyton herself give new horror vibes, as her smile is so fake and unsettling just like the dummy’s. I would especially love to see her in Batman the Caped Crusader
Speaking of which, you should do a video on which villains should be in season 2. I have a long list lol: Peyton, Baby Boom, Curare, Scarecrow & Scream Queen, Spook, Signalman, Enemy Ace, Miss Tuesday & Autumn, Royal Flush Gang, Enchantress, Solomon Grundy, Tusk & Carpenter, Hummingbird & Cassowary Sisters, Harvest, Sandman, Thorn, and Hazard
I want to see more of her. If the Ventriloquist is set to appear in Caped Crusader I hope, it's her. She fits in with the aesthetic and era of the show.
It's interesting that with the scar on her face, she is literally both the Ventriloquist and Scarface.
I really like her unsettling vibe in her first appearance I wish they would've leaned into it later as well. With Wesker the ventriloquist is almost like a harmless old man which has its own interesting horror to it but it's rare that the ventriloquist is as creepy as the puppet and its fun here with peyton riley.
I like when you don’t actually know if Scarface is alive or not, but if I had to choose one I’d be him being an actual dummy and a fragment of a scarred psyche.
Also, I like the appearance of Lock-Up. Nice to see obscure references to BTAS or references in general. I feel like not a lot of the new characters really stuck around. Livewire and Harley seem like the most prominent ones to make it to comics.
Definitely, although that's like just because they had such strong introductions, and Livewire sorta embodies Electric Blue Superman in a way.
Lock-Up actually debuted in the comics before Harley did, so he's actually been around for a long time now.
I liked her, if only because Batman is kind of low on female villians, since Selina, Ivy and Harley all turned anti-hero, then again i have not read anything whit the new female ventriloquist
That's a problem with female villains in general.
Frrr, a lot of mainstream superhero media just need to have more ruthless evil women, at least for me, a evil woman enjoyer
Punchline is irredeemable already.
@@leephillips4402
The writers themselves fall in love with their "broken dolls" and want to "fix"/redeem them, at least partially.
I'm still waiting for them to bring back The Siren from the 1966 Batman show.
Peyton Riley is such a fascinating character! It's a shame she doesn't get much recognition.
Peyton Riley is a fine example of a villain where there is "more than meets the eye" and i really hope we see more of her at some point.
Are You Afraid Of Dolls?
Yes,but the Ventriloquist is still one of my favorite Batman Villains.He is underrated
yeah
I've had a plastic ventriloquist doll since I was a kid, who now sits next to my studio microphone so I have someone to talk to directly when I'm doing voice work. Many have commented that he is rather creepy...
creepiest doll ever is from the The Doll episode of Night Gallery thenightgallery.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/doll8.jpg
Not really as an adult but as a child I feared Chucky the doll for awhile.
"What happens to naughty boys who've been naughty, Mr. Flibble?"
"We couldn't possibly do THAT. Who'd clean up the mess?"
@@HBHaga *laser eyes intensifies*
I really love the videos in which you break down characters, especially obscure ones
I actually love this idea as a continuation of the character. The idea of another human finding a connection to Scarface/Scarface finding a new "host" is interesting and I like the idea of her having a brief but poignant moment of connection with the original ventriloquist before his passing to cement it.
The character does have potential. It always interesting to see how Bruce’s circle of friends become something; Hush, The Phantasm, maybe Zantana and Catwoman.
I think you're forgetting Two Face as well.
Paul Dini's Detective Comics run dwelt with Gotham's past in quite a few stories. He expanded it beyond cesspool of crime run by the mob and added stuff like the 4 families that built Gotham (Wayne, Cobblepott, Elliot, and one other), the Waynes being close friends with the Zatara's, and that Ra's al Ghul had a hand in designing the city. Payton was just a vehicle Dini used to explain all this.
Even though I thought this was all interesting, it all got blown away by Scott Snyder's Court of Owls arc and that has been the basis for most of Gotham's history. Because of this, the Payton Riley Ventriloquist fell into obscurity.
Finding out that stuff in the comics was written by Dini, and then kinda pushed aside by Scott Snyder’s New 52 stuff actually makes the game Arkham City a bit neater in my eyes, given it was also mainly written by Dini. Especially Ra’s Al Ghül’s connection to the founding of Gotham
Four families that built Gotham sounds like such a cold idea! I suggest they include the Arkham family for this.
I really liked the storyline in which she debuts, and I love the Don Kramer art where she first reveals her eye--it's so good! I'd love to see her pop up in different Bat-universes, her dual persona is of a different nature than Wesker and it's an interesting take I'd like to see explored even further. (Also, if she were a classic Wonder Woman villain, she'd just be wearing the Scarface suit 😉)
I really enjoy these forays into 'Sasha's Hall of Obscure and Forgotten Baddies'...although I would love to see you do some obscure villains from other heroes' rogue galleries....
I love old Hollywood gangster talk. I can tell you had fun voicing Scarface. "Yes" to more Peyton. Dat dame is like candy laced wit poison. Cue Bel Biv Devoe, lol!
AYYYY PAUL DINI AGAIN!~ YAY!
I literally watched your last video on Two-Face, made a comment for a video on Paul Dini, THEN watched this video after, and BAM he's back! IT'S A SIGN!
Similar to your video of how in a way The Batman 2004 was a possible inspiration for the Batman Who Laughs, would you be interested in talking about how it may have also influenced Failsafe with the AI D.A.V.E. created by Hugo Strange in the show?
I love the voice you use for batman. brings me great joy🤣
Ohh! I recognized the actor from The Great Gabbo right away, and let me tell you i'm baaad with faces. Loved him in Sunset Boulevard!
It's a trick, there is no Alvin you are throwing your voice. you almost had me. lol
I've wondered about her for years. I have this amazing poster I bought like 15 years ago of all of batman rogues gallery and she is the one holding scar face in the poster. I've always thought it was wierd because everyone else are the classic villains you would think of except for her. I always assumed she must have been a bigger deal than I realized even though I had only read a couple appearances in the hush line.
Had not known about Peyton, but now I quite like her.
The Wexler version always seemed a bit one note to me.
I like how Peyton and Scarface feel like a partnership.
Have to track down those issues.
9:15 her original comic strip, kind of makes her look like a doll like a Barbie doll that’s forced to smile, but here she does indeed look like fam-fatale
Great Video! I have to say I really enjoyed the few appearances that Ventriloquist 2 had. She was a tragic character that they could have easily kept around. On a side note, I had really just come back to Batman comics after a long break when Dini was writing Detective. I so loved what he along with Dustin and Derek did with 843 and 844, that Peyton (with Scarface) ended up being the 2nd sketch in my sketchbook from my first comic con. In this case being drawn by Derek Fridolfs. Anytime anyone flips through Peyton is usually the first sketch anyone sees (since page one has the habit of grabbing onto the cover). This alone has kept the character in my memory.
I really like both versions of the ventriloquist, and i think (and hope) they could bring peyton back in a new cartoon as THE ventriloquist.
(So we can have 2 'canon' ventriloquists)
We need something like the Claylist but for all the Ventriloquist characters....the Ventriloq-List!!!
I always love the ones where you take a solid dive into the symbolism and psychology of characters. 🤘🏼🖤🤘🏼
I kinda like the idea of the cursed wood, assuming its not a full posession and more of a strengtening factor, latching on to people who are already mentally unstable and forcing them to put all their bad thoughts and habits into the puppet. Because otherwhise I would say that it happening twiuce with two totally diferent people is a BIT convienient.
this is by FAR my favorite dye job/wig (i never was able to figure out which one u rock, LOL.) either way. i really, REALLY dig this candycane look. really smexy
@CasuallyComics Can you do X-Men Evolution next, and compare that show with Teen Titans from 2003.
I remember I had a DC comics encyclopedia when I was little, and when I got to the Ventriloquist, I saw that woman’s picture.
LoL I love your batman voice!
I wanted to comment this on your previous video, but your Batman voice genuinely made me laugh. Great discussion of this version of Scarface, too.
I love Norm Breyfogle... my favorite Batman artist. RIP....
I have always seen Payton as a tragic villain like Victor Frieze. I love her original look the best.
I wouldn't mind Peyton's version showing up the Harley Quinn TAS. Plus, I would live to see a vid on the second female Ventriloquist and why she failed. I wouldn't mind a female version take on Batgirl and Batwoman.
Personally I think the doll being just a doll works better. You can dig really deep with that compared to haunted dummy.
I loved your background research on ventriloquism horror stories!
Paul Dini's run in Detective Comics isn't brought up a lot, but I really like it, despite the surprisingly (considering Dini is the writer) questionable morality of the Batfam in it, compared to the reference (Batman not caring about collateral damage in the Iceberg Lounge, the full "Batman movie" way to deal with villains in the Hush arc, etc).
Hey so I know this comment might get buried but I just wanted to ask you your thoughts on the New Fantastic Four Run, if feel it's moving more towards plausible science and it is episodic in nature. I think you might like stories which get done and dusted within like 2 issues at most. There's also a real good focus in the family as a team aspect.
5:30 I love your Batman voice! LOL!
Sasha being incessantly pestered by her cat: AL-VIIIIN!!!
I'm sorry I missed this character. I'm gonna try and track down the issues - the Ventriloquist was always a favorite from BTAS, and I'd like to see more. Batman vs classic gangsters was always a win for me - old money two ways.
Good Story Sasha ...Oh the "voices" are on point ... as usual. Lmbo.😂
Paul Dini's run on Detective Comics was a favorite of mine.
Like the clay list. Are you gonna make a VentriList?
Peyton is honestly my favorite Ventriloquist. I always love seeing characters that really dive into the different effects and manifestations of abuse and trauma. The way Peyton perpetuates her own abuse and self-loathing through Scarface honestly hit really close to home, and just made me want good things for her. Unfortunately we all know how that turned out 😭 I'd love to see her get a new lease on life and someday have the happiness she deserves.
The true plot twist is, Sasha has been Alvin's puppet this whole time
2 things one the new ventriloquist is very concerning because she did shit with the puppet. And the second I like the red and white hair style Sasha it's nice it looks kinda like a candy cane .
Holy crap, never expected the mention of Wolf's Complete Book of Terror! There was a copy at the tony local library I worked at for several years. It always fascinated me!
Maybe a reach or coincidence but in the Batman Hush animated movie Tommy Elliot's date to the opera is a blonde woman in a red dress very similar to Peyton but no scar. This may be the closest she got to an animated cameo/Easter egg. As others have also mentioned she would fit right in the current Caped Crusader cartoon given her and the show's aesthetic.
I personally liked her and wish she could have gotten more but even still she felt like Dini trying to do another "Harley Quinn" in a lovely blonde woman in a toxic relationship with a criminal but more Mafia than clown themed. I still wish more was done with her if only to give Wesker some peace while personally wasn't impressed with Shauna and her powerset that made her feel more Puppeteer than Ventriloquist.
Nothing's going to beat the original, but I think there's value in letting different people use the dummy. There's a lot of fun angles to take with the Ventriloquist and Scarface, and there are some you can't really do with Wesker.
I really like the idea that ventriloquist is the puppet controlling the puppeteer in someway most likely magically because if it really is either a doll with a mind of its own that controls its puppeteer or somehow magical and exerts influence on people to make them act in ways they otherwise wouldn’t that is more interesting than someone dissociating a second personality onto the puppet
Sorry this isn’t about the ventriloquist but I found it hilarious seeing Sasha argue with Alvin.
The amount of times that Alvin bothering you, there should be memes about it. Like in Alvin and the chipmunks style. 😂
You know, it might not happen, but Caped Crusader is trying new things, it would be cool to see that show re-establish Payton and Scarface, plus giving her first animated appearance
On the topic of her team up with Harley Quinn I don't think she could have been a redemption story like Harley because unlike Harley who suffered Joker emotionally manipulating and emphasizing her instabilities into committing crime, Peyton Riley chose to become a mob boss herself and her own trauma and delusion simply gave her a means to deflect in the dummy. Of course Wesker is generally a mild and kind man with a horrific alternate and when the latter is dealt with the former can be redeemable but I feel like Riley's alternate is much more complimentary to her. Maybe the reason she comes across as just a mobster sometimes and not some tragic character is that even without the tragedy and puppet she'd still be a mobster.
Kitty really needs to be part of the videos like Claw on Inspector Gadget. #justice4alvin
It might be interesting to bring Peyton back as a PRIMARILY Zatanna villain, and was thinking having her learn some magic so that Scarface could move autonomously would be an interesting upgrade to the gimmick, looks like Shauna beat her to that.
But another idea did occur to me that would be delightfully absurd. Have Peyton team up with Baby-doll (Mary Dahl), and Baby-doll could dress up AS Scarface from time to time as a way to fake the idea that the puppet has become autonomous. Peyton could even learn to mimic Baby-dolls voice as well, maybe even craft an eerily lifelike doll version of her, as a way to further the ruse. Run it as this sort of shell game scenario of "Who's actually running things here?" Is it Peyton? Mary? SCARFACE? And just adding this element of POTENTIAL supernatural powers (and a slightly upped game with tech and stage magic) together with both Mary and Peyton being known psychos could create a wonderfully tense mystery and threat.
I think this video made me appreciate Peyton Riley a lot more.
You want to see a freaky, disturbing ventriloquist movie, catch Dead Silence from 2007.
I would love to see Peyton return, maybe as a Black Lantern and create a whole town of town of dolls that she controls with the ring.
Another bit of Dc stuff that's so many years ago now that I'd honestly forgotten it. And yet I still remember Shauna Belzer quite well. I think it was the novelty of her not being Arnold Wesker that made her stick for me. But if so, why didn't I remember Peyton? That's curious. I think she could have caught on, but she seems to be the kind of character who starts off big and then just gets forgotten about as creators change and company plans do also.
She was interesting, maybe she could be one of the Absolute Batman's villains, and she is already a major crime boss. Batman has so many great villains, they could concentrate on the minor ones more, instead of yet more versions of the usual suspects.
I enjoyed this episode. Your voices are really good. I found this character interesting and I hope she is used in the future.
Peyton is a really neat character in my book. I could imagine her being written much the same or as an apprentice type character to the first ventriloquist if she ever came back.
The Ventriloquist is an example of one of my favorite / most hated tropes in comics, "the question mark." In this case it's, is the dummy (doll) really self-animated, does it have a life of it's own? Or is it a creation of their partner? I think this is a marvelous thing when the question walks the fine line of is it, or isn't it. But all too often someone will later come along and answer the question.
My favorite example of this done right, I think, then defamed, is "The Elf with a Gun" ("The Reason is No Reason") story arc from Defenders.
As always thank you so very much for the video.
And is Alvin a Tonk? There are several in our family, and they all like to talk.
I'd never heard of Payton but already I'm thinking a cool twist would be to have both her and Arnold be the Ventriloquist. Not different versions or at different times but rather the same Scarface, a blending of the two. They could become a wacky, only-in-Gotham, thruple.
Great episode...always entertaining
I can't believe you did Alvin like that
I liked Peyton. I thought her intros was very well done, it’s a shame her other stories didn’t live up to that standard. She could have been a more dangerous version of the Ventriloquist, since she was clearly far more savage than Wesker, even without using Scarface as an outlet. And her mob ties and background could have added a lot more to her damaged psyche. Plus, the implied relationship she had with Scarface was disturbing in a different way. Arnold was loyal to Scarface but was scared of him. Peyton was loyal but loved him and - in the early stories anyway - Scarface cared about her more than he ever did about Arnold.
Honestly I like the idea of Scarface having multiple Ventriloquists so to me it doesn't really matter if it's Wesker or Peyton or Belzer or whoever. The idea is that Scarface is the villain, and while that might sound like it's patronizing the reader a little bit, the illusion is what sells the character.
I like the idea that the dummy is made of something that, while not haunted, kinda promotes such vile behavior in its user, like its existence in their hands is enough to create the personality of Scarface in their heads. So, kinda possession but not really?
Kevin Conroy and Sasha, the true voice of Batman.
Tbh, I always thought The Riddler and The Question buddie book could have been a great miniseries. Someone who asks too many questions that partners with someone who makes a lot of riddles.
👑 idk if this is anything, but we're someone with diagnosed OSDD (DID with no memory loss), or, sigh, "split personality" (outdated term), and we've sorta noticed how Paul Dini in particular has a complicated relationship with alters. He's the one who wrote this, the Batman Beyond Movie where Tim gets possessed by The Joker, part of the BTAS episode where part of Clayface splits off into a girl, the Ventriloquist episode where he gets "cured" through repressing his alter, etc.
Our problem with Peyton (along with most of the Ventriloquist stories, actually) is that most of them imply the solution for reform is to get rid of/suppress Scarface/the puppet/etc. Speaking as someone who literally is a system, that's not how it works, lmao. And in fact, it's a bit of an ableist trope that implies that the alter isn't a real person, ergo, they can be as evil as possible as long as they're either annihilated from existence or it all ends in tragedy. We have 20 bitches in this head and our first instinct with a problem causer is to assist, adjust, and help them get better. Yeah, Scarface's puppet shit is dumb, but he is a person to us, and The Ventriloquist isn't ever going to get better if that fact isn't addressed.
We'd personally love for Peyton as a character to return, but ah, maybe not in the hands of someone who doesn't have the best track record with our condition, lmao. Peyton would honestly work better as a Batman character who gets DID who reforms and works with it, because honestly that universe is littered with evil murder alter systems that make it damn near impossible for us to get into it. Someone on tumblr made an AU where she finds another doll and still keeps the doll persona, but tries living her days out better, give us that lol - Pandora
I believe that would be difficult. Because Scarface is (usually) a pure evil character with no redeeming qualities, often abusing his puppeteer as they are too weak to fight back.
So no redeeming this guy. Any type of redemption will probably feel forced, at least to me.
I have no problem with pure evil alters!
But the idea of Payton getting a new puppet sounds very interesting and unique! If they bring back Payton, let's hope that this will be her method of recovery in the future. It's a better representation of DID, as it's not a disorder that could be 'cured'
(But it's comics, so don't hope too much).
👑 Hey did someone respond to this post?? It keeps showing in our notifications but we can't actually see it here for some reason?
It mentioned that Scarface was meant to be pure evil and irredeemable, and we wanted to reply to it because that was our point about how plurality is often demonized? Scarface is pure irredeemable evil BECAUSE he's an alter in a fictional story.
He's in a nebulous space where he's considered both "not real" and "pure evil" at the same time, because plurality isn't seen as a valid condition to coexist with healthily in fiction. So all negative traits sort of get shoved onto him to justify him being suppressed or never redeemed, just like... honestly every other plural character in batman stories honestly.
And we get it, can't take it TOO seriously because it is comic books. It's just that batman does this trope so consistently with little positive depictions to jump off of, you know? Why do we have to read Gotham Academy and then get flashbanged by "the main protagonists mom has a serial killer split personality and the daughter will get it too" suihskjshf
I have a fixation with both systems and Batman villains, and have been using both to better educate myself on disorders and work on writing.
My rewrite of System! Arnold and Scarface has Scarface as acting as more of a Persecutor who understands he's in the City of Crime.
Having been raised in a crime family, he's a more "yes man"- basically growing up he'd go along with what the family wanted in hopes of them (he and Arnold) being hurt less.
Because of this, he feels that he and Arnold have to be mob bosses to stay afloat (at least they're less likely to be taken advantage of if they're the ones on top).
The abu$e he hurls at Arnold is more projection and him "trying to toughen him up" (No, this does not make his abu$e okay; it gives reason as to why he does it tho instead of just "oOoOo aLters Evilllll").
One could also add everyone saying Scarface is "not real" and "needs to be gotten rid of" as further motivation for him hurling abu$e at Arnold (who one could write as believing everyone and therefore also show the damage that mindset can have on a system) and why he continues to act the way he does- he's also trying to prove that he is indeed real and needed.
(And this is all without getting into the potential adding the other alters such as Socko and Mister Snoots can do)
Peyton doesn't interest me as much as Arnold and Scarface so I haven't thought much about her and Scarface's dynamic, but if I were to make up something as I'm typing this down..
Perhaps her Scarface is an introject of the Scarface that's with Arnold- seeing as they're both mob children, I wouldn't be surprised if they met at least once at a gathering.
Because introjects aren't always exactly as their sources, that explains why he behaves slightly nicer to Peyton.
in this age of female characters getting more of a focus than they used to, I would love to see her take over the role by default in the new DC Cinematic thing they're doing