@@PrixtoTNT The whole point of the video is how it *isn't* LITERALLY Hamon in English because it is impossible to translate the full meaning into a single word.
@@Brutalyte616 well, i did start practicing Judo when i was 4 years old while informally learning a bit of Karate from my brother and friends. A few years later and i also did other styles like Kendo, Kenjutsu and Iaido. I kept practicing new styles. The point is that i take martial arts seriously, it really hurts me when people see Pencak Silat and calls it Kung Fu, or when they see a Judo Gi and think that the person wearing it is a Karateka.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 I mean 'Magic Sunlight Martial Arts' doesn't have the same ring to it. Although 'Magic Sunlight Judo' also sounds good, despite how inaccurate it is...
finally someone else agrees with me. I will always call Hamon, Hamon. The Dub calls it as such, so I do too. It gives so much more mystique to the system rather than just... Ripple.
I prefer Ripple. It conjures the image of Zeppeli standing in the water, surrounded by waves like an Italian Jesus. Plus, Hamon sounds like Jamon aka ham in Spanish.
@@megaultradamn I understand your example with Zeppeli and water. And that the other name "Hamon" sounds like ham, a little silly. But in my personal opinion, both somehow work. Ripple refers to it initially, while Hamon refers to in a more general sense.
If you think about it, the entirety of jojos is a ripple throughout history caused by a slippery road. The same way a ripple is a massive effect caused by a small impetus
There's definitely some linguistically cool stuff like this to be found in Jojo, but I don't think this is correct at all. "Hamon" is not a combination of two words, like you say, it's made from two kanji. It's a real, existing word you can find in a dictionary. Araki didn't "choose" the kanji in it. 波 means "wave." 紋 means stuff like "family crest" as well, sure, but also simply "pattern." It's just "wave pattern." The word objectively translates to "ripple" or "ring on water" and I think you can very much derive the same implications from the word "ripple." If you're insistent on people calling it "hamon," a better argument would be the good old "You don't call karate 'empty hand.'" It actually makes more sense to examine the word 仙道, "sendou," like this, since from what I can tell, that *is* a made-up word from 仙, "hermit" / "wizard" and 道, "road" / "journey." (Which also means there's nothing wrong with the Jojowiki's translation of it.)
Straight up there's a ton of such linguistic hurdles that non JP and CN audience will never get. Even terms like One Piece's haki, Hokuto no Ken's touki, heck even Dragon Ball's ki are literally just basic words used in every day speech. It's not even about looking too far into it, it's literally right in front of the audience's eyes and non JP and CN audience can't even see it because the language and cultural barrier is blocking it.
Based Shuck living in Araki's hometown while completing unaware that Morio-cho's geographic twin is actually Sendai's northern bedroom-town, Matsushima.
7 year Japanese speaker here. Hamon is Hamon. As in, the Japanese name for it being written in kanji is meant to be the quantifier. Native Japanese people often have their names rendered as kanji symbols rather than hiragana for this reason; it is native to the concept of their language, and all that their unique etymology entails. As a result, it is true that calling Hamon "Ripple" is incorrect, but as you mention this pertains to it being translated for a new audience with different language structures and contexts. Basically, Hamon shouldn't be called Ripple because it does not denote anything different than the kanji literally naming it "Hamon". it's akin to people using brand names to describe an object (i.e: Kleenex instead of tissue, or Hoover instead of vacuum cleaner). Only pedantic morons would unironically split hairs over this phenomenon due to how commonplace this trope is across most modern languages, so to hear this literal interpretation of Hamon by reading the kanji is like saying Giorno's stand should be called "Venta Aurea", or taking the literal meaning of the kanji "gold" and "wind" rather than accepting the given name of "Golden Experience" *as* the name and nothing further. Your definitions and observations of the Japanese alphabet are indeed accurate, and I for one commend your growing knowledge in regards to this complex and beautiful language. However, I would keep in mind the difference between named kanji and context-based kanji. While they are rendered the same in both scenarios, it is only the context that tells readers its meaning: e.g: using 神 as a part of someone's name in contrast to mention of a god, or thunder, or the Emperor of Japan. Hopefully this can shed some light on the topic; this isn't an attack on your (well-made) video, just an alternate perspective like you mention at 6:28. Keep up the good work regardless!
The “ripple effect” is an abstract metaphor to describe how our actions (or non-actions) reverberate throughout the physical and social world. It is a common metaphor in social science literature, however it has never been properly defined and expounded as a useful concept beyond the turn of phrase.
The word ripple personally to me still communicates the influence of the joestar family as they are like a ripple that goes on to have an effect for generations a ripple in the timeline.
@@phillemon7664 I haven't seen that many anime series, so I obviously don't know much, but the only series that come to the level of awesomeness/enjoyment/etc that jojo has are (to me at least) attack on titan and steins;gate. What are other cool animes that you think reach and surpass jojo's level?
pssst shuck! you forgot to include "smash mouth - walkin on the sun" in the description under music! walking on sunshine is a different song (unless it's the name of the remix you used) 1:01 also fun fact i helped yakko out with the character backgrounds, source the localized names and thumbnail for that vid >;]
I never liked leaving "hamon" as an untranslated term, as I dont think English speaking Victorians or New Yorkers of the 30s would have used a Japanese word in its raw untranslated form. Not to mention that it always makes me think of the little wavy line along the cutting edge of a Katana which is an artifact of the forging and differential hardening process, which is also called Hamon. I did like the OVAs dub using "wave energy" as it made me think of "wave motion gun" which would speak to its lethal effectiveness. In the end though, I'm compelled to think that a better translation in concept would be something akin to frequency or vibration, as the various power types and elementals one can conjure thru the art make me think of String Theory (hmmm... JoJolion might have been onto something...) and how its proposed system of frequencies can be utilized to materialize any form of material/energy as needed.
That, and it's not even supposed to be Japanese in-universe. The main modern-day school is in Tibet, so why the fuck would it be using Japanese terminology for its techniques?
Idk, we use karate in its untranslated form, also sumo, kendo, taekwando- I'd say it's more unusual TO translate the name of something martial-arts adjacent. We also don't translate things like sushi or sake, which don't have a true western equivalent.
@@mjp121 Isn't "sake" how it is used in the west literally just "rice wine"? For the record, it straight up just refers to any kind of alcohol when actually used in its native language as far as I heard, so any more specific meaning seems to be entirely made up by the west itself anyways.
i did not expect to get a better baseline understanding of what each alphabet is from this video than when i was searching for those answers specifically. thank u so much 😭 i’m part japanese and recently been trying to get back in touch with those roots since i can’t just ask my grandma anymore
I suppose an argument that can be made is that the term "Crest of the Family" might have worked if the Joestar birthmarks actually existed in manga of Parts 1 and 2 instead of just materialising out of nowhere from 3 onwards. The term also just doesn't really fit that well since going by the translation,Hamon is called "Waves of your Family" which sounds infinitely more lame than Ripple. Like it makes it seem as if Hamon is something exclusive to just one or two families when guys like Caesar basically didn't have a family yet still managed to do it. I get that descendants of Hamon users have the potency and _potential_ to learn the ability but it still doesn't fit all too well. Personally I still call it Hamon because that's just what I'm used to after watching Parts 1 and 2 dubbed as all GigaChads should do for the funny accents as well as reading the Viz English translated manga however the argument that it should only be referred to as Hamon over Ripple based on a somewhat basic translation that sort of fits a part of the series that isn't even brought up in the Parts that Hamon is used kinda feels like grasping at straws just to make it work. That and,again,it feels a tad bizarre than the dudes who created/discovered Hamon as an ability were like "fuck it let's call this sunlight breathing kung fu 'Waves of Family' that makes sense"
Waves of that Family also works for the Zeppeli bloodline. "We Italians have the strongest family bonds." - Caesar Zeppeli. It's not exclusive to the Joestars. The literal "family crest" is just better in the context of the birthmark. Regardless of whether or not the birthmark existed prior to Part 3, it's still a reference to the generational story Araki wanted to tell.
I didn't even realize certain translations used "ripple" in reference to hamon because I've never actually seen any Jojo media that uses that translation. Not even in subtitles.
I personally call it Hamon but i don't mind it being called Ripple. Calling it Hamon doesn't help someone who doesn't know any Japanese to imagine what Hamon means on a deeper level without an explanation. The whole point of a translation is to also bring across some meaning with it. The word Ripple relates to Hamon visually since you often see ripples in the air or water around where Hamon is used. I connect Ripple with the flowing of water and by extension the flowing of life/sunlight energy into other things.
Hamon sounds more mystical (and thus cooler) to non-Japanese ears. This is my only reason why I call it Hamon. Kind of similar to Japanese using random English words.
With all this in mind, it's no wonder why Star Platinum is referred to as the ultimate stand in Part 6. It's not just the purest embodiment of what a stand is (which holds some relation to Hamon) but is representative in a way of the entire Joestar family/clan. It makes me wonder if far enough back in time in-universe, if it was actually their bloodline who first discovered Hamon and/or awakened their stand powers. The story may start with Jonathan Joestar, but that doesn't mean that he was necessarily the very first Jojo in lore. Just the first that we know about.
Well, the family crest part isn't all that hard to see in "ripple" tbh The whole Joestar family has, since the beggining, been a big influence in the world they live in. One thing they did allowed many others to happen, their influence makes ripples that allows other, smaller ripples to happen. Imo it's not really lost, you just have to search for different perspectives and use cases for the word. This is one thing people often never do before discarding dubs and translations that I really don't like.
Ripple here than means Ripple, metaphorically, while Hamon, meaning wave of the family crest, means literally, that's why ripple isn't really a good name
Funny enough, the spin is literally the Harmon counterpart in the new universe (like devil's eye /holy body parts are counterpart of the arrow /stands)
It's a shame the sound of the sun can't be heard here (because of the vacuum, and it would still be stupidly loud...) imagine a Hamon/Stand that could utilise the sound of the sun...
I know both Japanese and Chinese and the literal meaning of hamon is ripple. Sorry to burst your bubbles. Hadou isn't the only way to contextualize the character, it can also be used for waves (in fact this is more common). And Mon is just pattern. The 2 words combined is basically wave patterns, which is ripples...
...So a loose translation of Hamon's kanji would be 'Wave of the Family Crest' or 'Synchronicity of The Family Crest'. The Joestar 'crest' is the star-shaped birthmark on their necks. The sun is a star. Hamon involves breathing in a specific way to synchronize the body with solar energy.
Except star birthmark wasn't a thing in part one. Still, if anything it's excellent use of retcon, even if I would argue it wasn't planned as anything related to family from the start. At least not Joestar family.
@@Brutalyte616 In original manga, they were introduced only in part 3. Anime adaptation retconned that tho. But still, it wasn't original intent of an author to connect birthmark and Hamon in any narrative sense
It really is an interesting video about the origin for Hamon, great video. But what about stands being described in part 3 as "ghostly ripple", is it really something separate to Hamon, or is it still related?
I think the ghostly ripple is a translation thing, and stands are (or were in the early stages of part 3) supposed to be connected to hamon, but I'm not sure, besides, stands as a concept has evolved a lot over the years.
I think they were originally intended to be linked as an extension or evolution of the system but it got a little lost as the series went along. I do, however, love the SBR universe in regards to explicitly linking Stands to Spin, the SBR equivalent to Hamon and also a frequency/harmonic based power system, and how Stands are essentially a specific expression of it.
Well, we know that stands are influenced by strong familial connections, as shown by every living Joestar (Joseph, Holly, Jotaro, Josuke, Giorno) gaining a stand when Dio attained The World due to him using Jonathan's body. So, explaining stands as a ghostly manifestation of hamon, or the waves of a family crest, is actually quite accurate. This may explain why the initial description of stands as "ghostly hamon" in part 3 seems so out of place and incorrect. It could be referring to the fact that both stands and hamon exist as reverberations of a family's heritage, rather than the much more literal interpretation in english, that stands are related to hamon's breathing techniques.
@@InfernoFlower64 I try writing and sometimes writers will place little tiny connections in dialogue for things they may want to work on later on and decide to scrap that same connection. Doing it well is usually by leaving it vague. That way it can be explained away in a multitude of ways.
This Kanji breakdown on Hamon makes me wonder if there is more to the original "ghostly ripple" name for stands it it's kanji. I'd love to see another video further breaking this down.
Ok but if hamon uses the energy of the sun, could you use it as a power source? Maybe with solar panels? Though the energy is conducted differently so I doubt that.
lol some months ago i also was on the hamon site of the encyclopedia and i was confused why the romanized exactly was hamon and not the localized ripple
@@Mcdude02 The point is that if you call the Ripple "Hamon", you should also leave the Spin untranslated as "Kaiten". There's no logical reason to mix and match other than "because I feel like it" (which is perfectly valid, but incongruent with the logic of the vidya).
I use Hamon because "ripple" means waves, while Hamon means the specific power system in Jojo that can do a bunch of stuff that you wouldn't associate with the word ripple.
@@StripedJacket Joseph's fun, Caesar's fun, Stroheim's fun, Lisa Lisa's fun (and fine), really expands on Hamon, direct follow up to part 1's ending seeing the aftermath its had on the characters connected, pillarmen are fun, finally get stone mask origins, that insane subversion of expectations of an ending, the first vibes of how Araki writes for later parts but in a non episodic manner so it's a much more naturally streamlined story. At least that's why its my favorite lol
Should've been expected considering Stands have another more well known meaning in the kanji araki uses, funny enough linking it to Hamon more. And then given this meaning for Hamon's kanji coupled with how Stands are brought into the Joestar lineage, it's extra brilliance.
I read a fanlation when I started, and in it Zeppeli only referred to it as Ripple once, and Hamon the rest of the time. Personally, I was under the impression that Ripple was just an expression of Hamon. So the crackling energy itself was the Ripple, but Zoom Punch, the speedy healing, walking on water/oil, and so on was not Ripple, but was still Hamon
This hamon and ripple problem didn't occurred here on the Brazilands, and for my knowledge, any other portuguese speaking nation They just call it Hamon (which is also a a common name, lol)
I think I understand well enough. I always thought that it must be several things that work together, basically that Ripple was the name of the energy, and Sendo was a martial technique, and then when used together it creates Hamon. Like imagine everyone has Aura, and by using Karate, you can harness that Aura to make Chi that can do Dragonball style blasts and fireballs. In this case Aura is this invisible force, and Chi is the visible form it takes when harnessed and focused in large quantities or something to that effect. So Hamon is super Ripple power and can do more than what Ripple energy can do on its own. I guess I was wrong, but that always made the most sense to me at the time.
It's always Hamon, the original kanji of Stand was "幽波紋(Spirit Hamon) yūhamon/sutando". Ripple is just much easier to memorize and pronounce for people who are not that familiar with Japanese in my opinion
When my friend first introduced me to JoJo, the first thing he made sure I understood was that if doesn't matter what the subtitles say, it's Hamon, NOT Ripple.
Yes this is you nitpicking. Because ripple and wave are usually used interchangeably. Furthermore, if you think about it, ripple can refer to the breathing that must be balanced. And you let it ripple throughout your opponent or object to either destroy it or give it more life. So tell me again, Schuckmeister (if that's even your real youtube handle), how is ripple totally different???? In all seriousness though, I really never thought about it. I mean hamon was always a great power system and it has lots of potential. But stands, they're just perfect. Great video Shuck, I really learned something new ^^
My reason for calling Hamon by its untranslated name is for the same reason you call Karate "Karate" or Kung Fu "Kung Fu". It's a martial art. You don't translate the name of a martial art into english, even if you can extrapolate a meaning from its separate characters.
Sendo is the martial art; Ripple is the energy that's used in tandem with said art. And even so, the Ripple isn't even Japanese in origin. The only modern-day school we see in the series is in Tibet, so by that logic we should be using the Tibetan names for everything.
General tip for kanji (and Chinese): try to first learn the meaning of simple character that pop up in moet complex ones (called radicals for Chinese). They can tell you something about either the pronunciation or meaning of a word.
Part 1 isn't just the best season of jojo, its one of the best anime of all time. Part 2 is also pretty awesome. I really couldn't get into much past that though, the characters just aren't as good as the first 2 jojo's and their supporting cast. And Dio is one of the best villains ever. Honestly its not the abilities that I remember from jojo, they are cool but the best part is the actual use in comat. jojo vs cars was such an epic battle.
I thought the Star only got added in part 3 though? impossible to say whether any of that stuff with Hamon is intentional or just an interpretation of art. in which case you could also argue that Ripple implies ripples through time like the butterfly effect caused by the initial conflict of Jonathan & Dio all the way through the first 6 parts.
That changes everything also i think that part one was great and from there it was just better until part 3...in part 4 we starts lower than part 1 and from there is just worse and worse:)
Hermit Purple is hinted to have been the stand of hamon users as in the manga there is a scene where DIO using a Crystal Ball was watching the crusaders. Dio with Jonathan's body. Using hermit purple to spy.
4:43 obviously this isn't the only point you made, but I'd like to point out that the birthmark wasn't introduced until part 3, which kinda exclude it as something that has strong thematic ties with Hamon
Hamon sounds cooler than Ripple, finally yes an average hamon enjouer. Also pt 1 is kinda my favorite (tho i only got half way into pt 2 so far, and so far, pt 2 holding up) and man, good research, kinda scared when i get into kanji
波紋 could also just mean ripple pattern, considering the fact that it’s not exclusive to the Joestars by any means and the fact that it shares so many similarities with the rays from the sun(what with sending out energy that permeates a system with a mostly calculable outcome). The sun’s rays nourish plants which go on to nourish other living organisms, while 波紋 also seems to nourish plants and its effects later down the line can be predicted with pretty high accuracy.
Something I don't see many people mentioned is how Stands are likely to be an extension to Hamon. Think about it. At the beginning of Part 3, Joseph tells Jotaro that his stand will be weaker if he can't control his breathing, and near the end of Part 3, Iggy's lungs are pierced and his Stand is a lot weaker because he can't breathe properly, and Hamon and breathing are heavily tied. And let's not mention all the times when a character's Stand is incapacitated by preventing them from breathing. And as far as we know, characters like Jotaro or Joseph were never hit by the arrow. But we know that they have the ability to use Hamon because of their link to the Joestar family. Joseph never learned to use Hamon but he still could use it because Jonathan learned it and now it's in the family. So Jotaro is likely the same. And the return of Dio brought out their Stands because they have Hamon. Besides, Jotaro assumed Dio got hit by the arrow, but what if he was gifted this ability because he has Jonathan body (who mastered Hamon) ? It would mean that The World is technically Jonathan's Stand, and it would explain why Jotaro (who's his grand-grandson) can use Star Platinum : The World. It's an ability that floods in the Joestar blood, just like Hamon basically. I've haven't seen this exact theory anywhere on the Internet, and the people I've seen wonder if there's a link between Hamon and Stands didn't use any of these arguments. Though something I've seen them mention is that the kanji for Stand mean Spirit/Ghost Hamon, which is another argument for my theory of Stands being an extension to Hamon.
Okay that's cool, what are your counter arguments ? You do realize I won't believe you if you don't tell me why you think I'm wrong in the first place ?
Jonathan stand is confirmed in Jojoveller to be a Hermit Purple like. We see it around 2 times (1 time during Polnareff's Flashback) They did got their stand through the arrow but spiritually, just like how Weather got his stand when Pucci got his by the arrow So yeah, the two main arguments of this theory are wrong
As many, many other people have mentioned - Hamon means nothing to an English speaker. That's why it's translated to Ripple, which means more than what you're saying, ripple can mean the ripples of energy from the body, the sun, the soul... Ripple means all the things you attributed to Hamon... So it's a fine translation. It's all about context. Plus that is the reason for translations. I personally experienced JoJo translated as Ripple, then later when I saw other youtube content refer to it as Hamon I just thought to myself 'That sounds so goofy, sounds like a slice of Ham' Then I realised it was just untranslated Ripple.
I know the music here said its "walking on sunshine", BUT IM SO SURE THAT MUSIC FROM 1:02 to 2:03 Is "You might as well be walking on the sun" by Smash Mouth, I REFUSE TO ANY OTHER ANSWER
Yes ok but you wanna beat the Italian “TECNICA DELLE ONDE CONCENTRICHE” (litt. the rippling waves technique”) We italians have an history about losts in translation unfortunately but we kinda make up for it by having a very cool language
With Hamon's Kanji being flow and family crest Part 8 has even more symbolism from the old world.
Yeah, the series has a lovely “flow” to it
i hope that flow won't hit me with misfortune
Nice pfp I bet your cousin wants to make you god
@Der45lol eh it's more like become King of Bel and kill God but ye
Is devil survivor any good
Tbh, I usually thought Ripple was a little nickname/other name for Hamon
same
same
It's literally Hamon in English
It is, Ripple is Hamon translated into English
@@PrixtoTNT The whole point of the video is how it *isn't* LITERALLY Hamon in English because it is impossible to translate the full meaning into a single word.
'Magic Sunlight Karate' gets more of a chuckle out of me than it should...
IIRC, that term was coined by Super Eyepatch Wolf way before this video used it.
I actually didn't like it because if anything, Hamon looks more like Kung Fu :'(
@@jestfullgremblim8002 A tad pedantic, but understandable.
@@Brutalyte616 well, i did start practicing Judo when i was 4 years old while informally learning a bit of Karate from my brother and friends. A few years later and i also did other styles like Kendo, Kenjutsu and Iaido.
I kept practicing new styles.
The point is that i take martial arts seriously, it really hurts me when people see Pencak Silat and calls it Kung Fu, or when they see a Judo Gi and think that the person wearing it is a Karateka.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 I mean 'Magic Sunlight Martial Arts' doesn't have the same ring to it. Although 'Magic Sunlight Judo' also sounds good, despite how inaccurate it is...
finally someone else agrees with me.
I will always call Hamon, Hamon. The Dub calls it as such, so I do too.
It gives so much more mystique to the system rather than just... Ripple.
I prefer Ripple. It conjures the image of Zeppeli standing in the water, surrounded by waves like an Italian Jesus. Plus, Hamon sounds like Jamon aka ham in Spanish.
@@megaultradamn how'd you manged to say a lot but said nothing at the same time 💀
@@azzyz9732 not my fault you failed English
@@megaultradamn I understand your example with Zeppeli and water. And that the other name "Hamon" sounds like ham, a little silly. But in my personal opinion, both somehow work. Ripple refers to it initially, while Hamon refers to in a more general sense.
@@megaultradamn I'm not the only one that thought about ham nice
So, you're telling me that, since Hamon means Flow Family Crest and the Crest is literally a star,
You're telling me that:
The Joestars use FlowStar?
The sun is a star after all *sharts loudly*
Lil joey flowstar the greatest rapper in the jojoverse.
@@imaeintellec209 what do you mean by "sharts loudly"
If you think about it, the entirety of jojos is a ripple throughout history caused by a slippery road. The same way a ripple is a massive effect caused by a small impetus
There's definitely some linguistically cool stuff like this to be found in Jojo, but I don't think this is correct at all.
"Hamon" is not a combination of two words, like you say, it's made from two kanji. It's a real, existing word you can find in a dictionary. Araki didn't "choose" the kanji in it.
波 means "wave."
紋 means stuff like "family crest" as well, sure, but also simply "pattern."
It's just "wave pattern." The word objectively translates to "ripple" or "ring on water" and I think you can very much derive the same implications from the word "ripple."
If you're insistent on people calling it "hamon," a better argument would be the good old "You don't call karate 'empty hand.'"
It actually makes more sense to examine the word 仙道, "sendou," like this, since from what I can tell, that *is* a made-up word from 仙, "hermit" / "wizard" and 道, "road" / "journey."
(Which also means there's nothing wrong with the Jojowiki's translation of it.)
ikr lol i think he's looking too far into it lol
Straight up there's a ton of such linguistic hurdles that non JP and CN audience will never get. Even terms like One Piece's haki, Hokuto no Ken's touki, heck even Dragon Ball's ki are literally just basic words used in every day speech.
It's not even about looking too far into it, it's literally right in front of the audience's eyes and non JP and CN audience can't even see it because the language and cultural barrier is blocking it.
Based Shuck living in Araki's hometown while completing unaware that Morio-cho's geographic twin is actually Sendai's northern bedroom-town, Matsushima.
Been to Matsushima. It was a blast. I showed some footage of the Aki light show in the video!
7 year Japanese speaker here. Hamon is Hamon. As in, the Japanese name for it being written in kanji is meant to be the quantifier. Native Japanese people often have their names rendered as kanji symbols rather than hiragana for this reason; it is native to the concept of their language, and all that their unique etymology entails. As a result, it is true that calling Hamon "Ripple" is incorrect, but as you mention this pertains to it being translated for a new audience with different language structures and contexts.
Basically, Hamon shouldn't be called Ripple because it does not denote anything different than the kanji literally naming it "Hamon". it's akin to people using brand names to describe an object (i.e: Kleenex instead of tissue, or Hoover instead of vacuum cleaner). Only pedantic morons would unironically split hairs over this phenomenon due to how commonplace this trope is across most modern languages, so to hear this literal interpretation of Hamon by reading the kanji is like saying Giorno's stand should be called "Venta Aurea", or taking the literal meaning of the kanji "gold" and "wind" rather than accepting the given name of "Golden Experience" *as* the name and nothing further.
Your definitions and observations of the Japanese alphabet are indeed accurate, and I for one commend your growing knowledge in regards to this complex and beautiful language. However, I would keep in mind the difference between named kanji and context-based kanji. While they are rendered the same in both scenarios, it is only the context that tells readers its meaning: e.g: using 神 as a part of someone's name in contrast to mention of a god, or thunder, or the Emperor of Japan.
Hopefully this can shed some light on the topic; this isn't an attack on your (well-made) video, just an alternate perspective like you mention at 6:28. Keep up the good work regardless!
Thanks for the very thoughtful and insightful comment! I really appreciate it and I will try my best to take your advise while I’m learning
That smash mouth instrumental 10/10 though
The “ripple effect” is an abstract metaphor to describe how our actions (or non-actions) reverberate throughout the physical and social world. It is a common metaphor in social science literature, however it has never been properly defined and expounded as a useful concept beyond the turn of phrase.
I love part 1. It's like Castlevania but really goofy
that's why i also love phantom blood
Part 1 Gentlemen
implying Castlevania is not goofy
@@thesatelliteslickers907 yeah, who just eats wall meat?
@@HenshinFanatic you don't
Oh man, so THATS why in the part 3 OVA dub Joseph and Dio call Hamon "Wave energy" rather than Hamon. It's a connotative translation.
The word ripple personally to me still communicates the influence of the joestar family as they are like a ripple that goes on to have an effect for generations a ripple in the timeline.
Ohhhh so thaaaaats why Jonathan says “the beat of my blood”. The waves (beat) of his family (blood)
i love part 1 more than part 3 its short and sweet and i love the campy gothic romance/horror
I can agree with that.
Bucolic
i prefer part 3 over 3 tbh
@@conordowd1861 what
He prefers part 3 over part 3, I agree, part 3 is way better than part 3.
This video is the definition of “actually ☝🏻🤓”
jojo is easily just the best anime just something about it
It's truly... Something bizarre
Yes, yes I did
@NotABot and even those arent "araki forgot" they actually are "the community not looking properly cause they are blind and not understanding"
Eh, I love JoJo to death but there a variety of other candidates that come to mind.
@@phillemon7664 I haven't seen that many anime series, so I obviously don't know much, but the only series that come to the level of awesomeness/enjoyment/etc that jojo has are (to me at least) attack on titan and steins;gate.
What are other cool animes that you think reach and surpass jojo's level?
Ah yes, Hamon, the technique that comes from the tibet and has a Japanese name
Ah yes, Hamon, which was created by someone who has no connection to Joestar yet it refers to Joestars
anyways hamon better than ripple
pssst shuck! you forgot to include "smash mouth - walkin on the sun" in the description under music! walking on sunshine is a different song (unless it's the name of the remix you used)
1:01 also fun fact i helped yakko out with the character backgrounds, source the localized names and thumbnail for that vid >;]
I never liked leaving "hamon" as an untranslated term, as I dont think English speaking Victorians or New Yorkers of the 30s would have used a Japanese word in its raw untranslated form.
Not to mention that it always makes me think of the little wavy line along the cutting edge of a Katana which is an artifact of the forging and differential hardening process, which is also called Hamon.
I did like the OVAs dub using "wave energy" as it made me think of "wave motion gun" which would speak to its lethal effectiveness.
In the end though, I'm compelled to think that a better translation in concept would be something akin to frequency or vibration, as the various power types and elementals one can conjure thru the art make me think of String Theory (hmmm... JoJolion might have been onto something...) and how its proposed system of frequencies can be utilized to materialize any form of material/energy as needed.
That, and it's not even supposed to be Japanese in-universe. The main modern-day school is in Tibet, so why the fuck would it be using Japanese terminology for its techniques?
Idk, we use karate in its untranslated form, also sumo, kendo, taekwando- I'd say it's more unusual TO translate the name of something martial-arts adjacent. We also don't translate things like sushi or sake, which don't have a true western equivalent.
@@mjp121 Isn't "sake" how it is used in the west literally just "rice wine"? For the record, it straight up just refers to any kind of alcohol when actually used in its native language as far as I heard, so any more specific meaning seems to be entirely made up by the west itself anyways.
hamon is the energy, ripple is the effect, stand is the fighter's spirit & spin is this ratio
I think ripple represents the meaning quite well after seeing this video lol
i did not expect to get a better baseline understanding of what each alphabet is from this video than when i was searching for those answers specifically. thank u so much 😭 i’m part japanese and recently been trying to get back in touch with those roots since i can’t just ask my grandma anymore
I suppose an argument that can be made is that the term "Crest of the Family" might have worked if the Joestar birthmarks actually existed in manga of Parts 1 and 2 instead of just materialising out of nowhere from 3 onwards.
The term also just doesn't really fit that well since going by the translation,Hamon is called "Waves of your Family" which sounds infinitely more lame than Ripple. Like it makes it seem as if Hamon is something exclusive to just one or two families when guys like Caesar basically didn't have a family yet still managed to do it. I get that descendants of Hamon users have the potency and _potential_ to learn the ability but it still doesn't fit all too well. Personally I still call it Hamon because that's just what I'm used to after watching Parts 1 and 2 dubbed as all GigaChads should do for the funny accents as well as reading the Viz English translated manga however the argument that it should only be referred to as Hamon over Ripple based on a somewhat basic translation that sort of fits a part of the series that isn't even brought up in the Parts that Hamon is used kinda feels like grasping at straws just to make it work. That and,again,it feels a tad bizarre than the dudes who created/discovered Hamon as an ability were like "fuck it let's call this sunlight breathing kung fu 'Waves of Family' that makes sense"
Waves of that Family also works for the Zeppeli bloodline. "We Italians have the strongest family bonds." - Caesar Zeppeli.
It's not exclusive to the Joestars. The literal "family crest" is just better in the context of the birthmark. Regardless of whether or not the birthmark existed prior to Part 3, it's still a reference to the generational story Araki wanted to tell.
I didn't even realize certain translations used "ripple" in reference to hamon because I've never actually seen any Jojo media that uses that translation. Not even in subtitles.
The only scans of the manga I've seen use Ripple.
I personally call it Hamon but i don't mind it being called Ripple. Calling it Hamon doesn't help someone who doesn't know any Japanese to imagine what Hamon means on a deeper level without an explanation. The whole point of a translation is to also bring across some meaning with it. The word Ripple relates to Hamon visually since you often see ripples in the air or water around where Hamon is used. I connect Ripple with the flowing of water and by extension the flowing of life/sunlight energy into other things.
I also prefer hamon as well. Great point you've made there.
I never understood why people called hamon ripple I thought they were different things
Literally the same word but in a different language. Like Spin and Kaiten
yeah same, I thought ripple are created from hamon or more like hamon creates ripple especially when will zeppeli explain it
@Pajaro Chango neji from naruto
Then you must have fallen asleep while watching part one
@@hggs4466 😴😴😴😴😴
Hamon sounds more mystical (and thus cooler) to non-Japanese ears. This is my only reason why I call it Hamon. Kind of similar to Japanese using random English words.
"we know what ripples are and they are underwhelming"
*precedes above statement with non-underwhelming examples*
Okay, so Ripple. Got it
With all this in mind, it's no wonder why Star Platinum is referred to as the ultimate stand in Part 6. It's not just the purest embodiment of what a stand is (which holds some relation to Hamon) but is representative in a way of the entire Joestar family/clan. It makes me wonder if far enough back in time in-universe, if it was actually their bloodline who first discovered Hamon and/or awakened their stand powers. The story may start with Jonathan Joestar, but that doesn't mean that he was necessarily the very first Jojo in lore. Just the first that we know about.
I only started learning Japanese super recently too, this year, funny to see this video now. Really cool knowledge!
Well, the family crest part isn't all that hard to see in "ripple" tbh
The whole Joestar family has, since the beggining, been a big influence in the world they live in. One thing they did allowed many others to happen, their influence makes ripples that allows other, smaller ripples to happen. Imo it's not really lost, you just have to search for different perspectives and use cases for the word.
This is one thing people often never do before discarding dubs and translations that I really don't like.
I agree, multiple definitions & context of the word can change their meaning.
A lot of people sleep on the English language and it’s depth
Ripple here than means Ripple, metaphorically, while Hamon, meaning wave of the family crest, means literally, that's why ripple isn't really a good name
Part 1's my favorite because it got me hooked
Woooo content on part 1!
Inb4 people start calling the spin "ripple" because Johnny makes ripples in the sand with his nails
Funny enough, the spin is literally the Harmon counterpart in the new universe (like devil's eye /holy body parts are counterpart of the arrow /stands)
Kaiten
It's a shame the sound of the sun can't be heard here (because of the vacuum, and it would still be stupidly loud...) imagine a Hamon/Stand that could utilise the sound of the sun...
I know both Japanese and Chinese and the literal meaning of hamon is ripple. Sorry to burst your bubbles. Hadou isn't the only way to contextualize the character, it can also be used for waves (in fact this is more common). And Mon is just pattern. The 2 words combined is basically wave patterns, which is ripples...
this is a very interesting video!
also shuck meister when did you become theauraguardian?
strongest ripple fan: 🤡
average hamon enjoyer: 😎
weakest 波紋 enthusiast: 💪😎ayayayayyyyy
least weird リッパル psychopath: 🧠🐌
...So a loose translation of Hamon's kanji would be 'Wave of the Family Crest' or 'Synchronicity of The Family Crest'.
The Joestar 'crest' is the star-shaped birthmark on their necks.
The sun is a star.
Hamon involves breathing in a specific way to synchronize the body with solar energy.
Mind = blown
Except star birthmark wasn't a thing in part one.
Still, if anything it's excellent use of retcon, even if I would argue it wasn't planned as anything related to family from the start. At least not Joestar family.
@@nihili4196 ...Are you sure about that?
@@Brutalyte616 In original manga, they were introduced only in part 3. Anime adaptation retconned that tho.
But still, it wasn't original intent of an author to connect birthmark and Hamon in any narrative sense
I'll be honest I'd never heard it referred to as Ripple before now, I've been blessed to only know it as Hamon.
nice to see another video very cool
It really is an interesting video about the origin for Hamon, great video.
But what about stands being described in part 3 as "ghostly ripple", is it really something separate to Hamon, or is it still related?
yeah, I remember jotaro's interaction with jonathan in eyes of heaven where he explains that stands are also known as "spirit hamon".
I think the ghostly ripple is a translation thing, and stands are (or were in the early stages of part 3) supposed to be connected to hamon, but I'm not sure, besides, stands as a concept has evolved a lot over the years.
I think they were originally intended to be linked as an extension or evolution of the system but it got a little lost as the series went along.
I do, however, love the SBR universe in regards to explicitly linking Stands to Spin, the SBR equivalent to Hamon and also a frequency/harmonic based power system, and how Stands are essentially a specific expression of it.
Well, we know that stands are influenced by strong familial connections, as shown by every living Joestar (Joseph, Holly, Jotaro, Josuke, Giorno) gaining a stand when Dio attained The World due to him using Jonathan's body. So, explaining stands as a ghostly manifestation of hamon, or the waves of a family crest, is actually quite accurate. This may explain why the initial description of stands as "ghostly hamon" in part 3 seems so out of place and incorrect. It could be referring to the fact that both stands and hamon exist as reverberations of a family's heritage, rather than the much more literal interpretation in english, that stands are related to hamon's breathing techniques.
@@InfernoFlower64 I try writing and sometimes writers will place little tiny connections in dialogue for things they may want to work on later on and decide to scrap that same connection.
Doing it well is usually by leaving it vague. That way it can be explained away in a multitude of ways.
ITS HAMON AND ALL THOSE WHO LOOKED DOWN ON ME IM SHIPPING DOWN YA BALCONY
This Kanji breakdown on Hamon makes me wonder if there is more to the original "ghostly ripple" name for stands it it's kanji. I'd love to see another video further breaking this down.
Ok but if hamon uses the energy of the sun, could you use it as a power source?
Maybe with solar panels? Though the energy is conducted differently so I doubt that.
Wonder of U manipulates the calamity, in other words, luck. So knowing that, part 1 makes us believe that there may be something beyond it, the PLUCK.
can't wait for the sequel: Spin/Rotation vs Kaiten
lol some months ago i also was on the hamon site of the encyclopedia and i was confused why the romanized exactly was hamon and not the localized ripple
> calls Ripple "Hamon"
> also calls Kaiten "Spin"
Who doesn't call it spin lol...
@@Mcdude02 The point is that if you call the Ripple "Hamon", you should also leave the Spin untranslated as "Kaiten". There's no logical reason to mix and match other than "because I feel like it" (which is perfectly valid, but incongruent with the logic of the vidya).
@@Mcdude02 i prefere Kaiten (because it looks cool)
I call it spin because I've never seen any other version of the name.
Also, it does kinda spins so...
in my life I have never heard anyone call Spin "Kaiten". I swear to god Its the first time I hear it
awesome video shuck!
I use Hamon because "ripple" means waves, while Hamon means the specific power system in Jojo that can do a bunch of stuff that you wouldn't associate with the word ripple.
I'm not gonna get spoilers for part 6 anime until I find some shady anime website and watch it there
why not on netflix? bcs of netflix?
@@afrina3781 no because of I'm not gonna pay for Netflix
Animesurge has stone ocean
@@afrina3781 duh
Part 1 is secretly one of my favorites, cuz whenever I re-watch it I almost always see something I never noticed before or forgot.
Part 2 is mine 😂 I looooooove Battle Tendency so much and I don’t know why
@@StripedJacket Joseph's fun, Caesar's fun, Stroheim's fun, Lisa Lisa's fun (and fine), really expands on Hamon, direct follow up to part 1's ending seeing the aftermath its had on the characters connected, pillarmen are fun, finally get stone mask origins, that insane subversion of expectations of an ending, the first vibes of how Araki writes for later parts but in a non episodic manner so it's a much more naturally streamlined story. At least that's why its my favorite lol
Part 1 and 2 are the best parts.
Change my mind.
moistcritikal alt account
@@lunalucifer3335 LMAO
I think you had it right the first time. Magic Sunlight Karate. lol
Should've been expected considering Stands have another more well known meaning in the kanji araki uses, funny enough linking it to Hamon more. And then given this meaning for Hamon's kanji coupled with how Stands are brought into the Joestar lineage, it's extra brilliance.
I read a fanlation when I started, and in it Zeppeli only referred to it as Ripple once, and Hamon the rest of the time.
Personally, I was under the impression that Ripple was just an expression of Hamon. So the crackling energy itself was the Ripple, but Zoom Punch, the speedy healing, walking on water/oil, and so on was not Ripple, but was still Hamon
This hamon and ripple problem didn't occurred here on the Brazilands, and for my knowledge, any other portuguese speaking nation
They just call it Hamon (which is also a a common name, lol)
Me hearing walking on the sun in the beginning and jamming
I think I understand well enough. I always thought that it must be several things that work together, basically that Ripple was the name of the energy, and Sendo was a martial technique, and then when used together it creates Hamon. Like imagine everyone has Aura, and by using Karate, you can harness that Aura to make Chi that can do Dragonball style blasts and fireballs. In this case Aura is this invisible force, and Chi is the visible form it takes when harnessed and focused in large quantities or something to that effect. So Hamon is super Ripple power and can do more than what Ripple energy can do on its own. I guess I was wrong, but that always made the most sense to me at the time.
It's always Hamon, the original kanji of Stand was "幽波紋(Spirit Hamon) yūhamon/sutando". Ripple is just much easier to memorize and pronounce for people who are not that familiar with Japanese in my opinion
What’s hard about pronouncing Hamon?
@@StripedJacket There's people saying Ham-on, Ha-moon...all sorts of things
Ha, mon-keigh brains.
as a jojo friday enjoyer, i liked this video
When my friend first introduced me to JoJo, the first thing he made sure I understood was that if doesn't matter what the subtitles say, it's Hamon, NOT Ripple.
Great, great video my dude. I agree 100%.
Ripple? Hamon? Nah, that's Sendo.
0:25 & 2:39 Like grandfather like grandson lmao
Yes this is you nitpicking. Because ripple and wave are usually used interchangeably. Furthermore, if you think about it, ripple can refer to the breathing that must be balanced. And you let it ripple throughout your opponent or object to either destroy it or give it more life.
So tell me again, Schuckmeister (if that's even your real youtube handle), how is ripple totally different????
In all seriousness though, I really never thought about it. I mean hamon was always a great power system and it has lots of potential. But stands, they're just perfect. Great video Shuck, I really learned something new ^^
Thank you master, now I am less dumb.
My reason for calling Hamon by its untranslated name is for the same reason you call Karate "Karate" or Kung Fu "Kung Fu".
It's a martial art. You don't translate the name of a martial art into english, even if you can extrapolate a meaning from its separate characters.
Sendo is the martial art; Ripple is the energy that's used in tandem with said art. And even so, the Ripple isn't even Japanese in origin. The only modern-day school we see in the series is in Tibet, so by that logic we should be using the Tibetan names for everything.
I AM NOT JOKING WHEN SHUCK WAS TALKING ABOUT THE GOTH GIRL THERE WAS AN ERROR SO IT NEVER FINISHED, SO IT JUST FROZE ON THAT SCREEN.
General tip for kanji (and Chinese): try to first learn the meaning of simple character that pop up in moet complex ones (called radicals for Chinese). They can tell you something about either the pronunciation or meaning of a word.
I never knew people called it ripple! This is really interesting. Hamon enjoyer over here 👍
Sendo: there is another.
I always assumed it was Ripple due to it being a reference to the Grateful Dead song.
Part 1 is my favorite and Part 4 is my second favorite. I will die on this hill.
This video introduced me to the fact that people call it ripple, and I’m still not sure why anyone would ever call it that
I won’t lie great video I’ve personally always called it hamon and never understood why people said ripple so thank you for that understanding
part 1 is my second favorite part first being 4
Part 1 isn't just the best season of jojo, its one of the best anime of all time. Part 2 is also pretty awesome. I really couldn't get into much past that though, the characters just aren't as good as the first 2 jojo's and their supporting cast. And Dio is one of the best villains ever.
Honestly its not the abilities that I remember from jojo, they are cool but the best part is the actual use in comat. jojo vs cars was such an epic battle.
Parts 1 and 2 are the same season.
Walking on the sun instrumental 😎 Based
I thought the Star only got added in part 3 though? impossible to say whether any of that stuff with Hamon is intentional or just an interpretation of art. in which case you could also argue that Ripple implies ripples through time like the butterfly effect caused by the initial conflict of Jonathan & Dio all the way through the first 6 parts.
That changes everything
also i think that part one was great and from there it was just better until part 3...in part 4 we starts lower than part 1 and from there is just worse and worse:)
Hermit Purple is hinted to have been the stand of hamon users as in the manga there is a scene where DIO using a Crystal Ball was watching the crusaders. Dio with Jonathan's body. Using hermit purple to spy.
4:43 obviously this isn't the only point you made, but I'd like to point out that the birthmark wasn't introduced until part 3, which kinda exclude it as something that has strong thematic ties with Hamon
Hamon sounds cooler than Ripple, finally yes an average hamon enjouer. Also pt 1 is kinda my favorite (tho i only got half way into pt 2 so far, and so far, pt 2 holding up) and man, good research, kinda scared when i get into kanji
波紋 could also just mean ripple pattern, considering the fact that it’s not exclusive to the Joestars by any means and the fact that it shares so many similarities with the rays from the sun(what with sending out energy that permeates a system with a mostly calculable outcome). The sun’s rays nourish plants which go on to nourish other living organisms, while 波紋 also seems to nourish plants and its effects later down the line can be predicted with pretty high accuracy.
Something I don't see many people mentioned is how Stands are likely to be an extension to Hamon.
Think about it. At the beginning of Part 3, Joseph tells Jotaro that his stand will be weaker if he can't control his breathing, and near the end of Part 3, Iggy's lungs are pierced and his Stand is a lot weaker because he can't breathe properly, and Hamon and breathing are heavily tied.
And let's not mention all the times when a character's Stand is incapacitated by preventing them from breathing.
And as far as we know, characters like Jotaro or Joseph were never hit by the arrow. But we know that they have the ability to use Hamon because of their link to the Joestar family.
Joseph never learned to use Hamon but he still could use it because Jonathan learned it and now it's in the family. So Jotaro is likely the same.
And the return of Dio brought out their Stands because they have Hamon. Besides, Jotaro assumed Dio got hit by the arrow, but what if he was gifted this ability because he has Jonathan body (who mastered Hamon) ?
It would mean that The World is technically Jonathan's Stand, and it would explain why Jotaro (who's his grand-grandson) can use Star Platinum : The World. It's an ability that floods in the Joestar blood, just like Hamon basically.
I've haven't seen this exact theory anywhere on the Internet, and the people I've seen wonder if there's a link between Hamon and Stands didn't use any of these arguments. Though something I've seen them mention is that the kanji for Stand mean Spirit/Ghost Hamon, which is another argument for my theory of Stands being an extension to Hamon.
You wrote a whole essay of wrong.
Okay that's cool, what are your counter arguments ? You do realize I won't believe you if you don't tell me why you think I'm wrong in the first place ?
Oh yeah also do you even know what an essay is ? Because essays don't look like that. They're much, much longer than that.
Jonathan stand is confirmed in Jojoveller to be a Hermit Purple like. We see it around 2 times (1 time during Polnareff's Flashback)
They did got their stand through the arrow but spiritually, just like how Weather got his stand when Pucci got his by the arrow
So yeah, the two main arguments of this theory are wrong
Well that's a shame, I was convinced I had a good theory 😭
And then there's Spanish speakers where "Hamon" is a thin slice of cured pork that goes in sandwiches...
Man got called out so hard hes scraping the barrel for ANYTHING.
Me after 6 years of studying japanese when they ask me to read literally any one kanji
- NO
As many, many other people have mentioned - Hamon means nothing to an English speaker. That's why it's translated to Ripple, which means more than what you're saying, ripple can mean the ripples of energy from the body, the sun, the soul... Ripple means all the things you attributed to Hamon... So it's a fine translation. It's all about context. Plus that is the reason for translations. I personally experienced JoJo translated as Ripple, then later when I saw other youtube content refer to it as Hamon I just thought to myself 'That sounds so goofy, sounds like a slice of Ham' Then I realised it was just untranslated Ripple.
Ah yes, walking on the sun by smash mouth.
Is there a similar hidden meaning in the Spin's Kaiten(回転)?
I know the music here said its "walking on sunshine", BUT IM SO SURE THAT MUSIC FROM 1:02 to 2:03 Is "You might as well be walking on the sun" by Smash Mouth, I REFUSE TO ANY OTHER ANSWER
Yes ok but you wanna beat the Italian “TECNICA DELLE ONDE CONCENTRICHE” (litt. the rippling waves technique”)
We italians have an history about losts in translation unfortunately but we kinda make up for it by having a very cool language
I never called Hamon as ripple... but oh well.. nice to know ...
This video is the embodiment of "um actually"