@@art_means_artificial agree, kinda good but ridiculously overpriced, RED is an awful company. Unfortunately brand perception is real, and some even say it sometimes help you land a gig... I am in this situation where given the choice I would still buy a c300mkIII, but maybe a RED is the smart 'buisness' move... Ugh, I am lost
Here is a quick and dirty C500 Mark II vs RED cost of ownership comparison. There are many other expenses like media storage and a computer that can work efficiently with these beefy codecs, but I think you will get my point. Also, this video was shot after we wrapped for the day so the setup made it so I didn't have a monitor and the light in my eyes drives me crazy, but I don't have time to stop this week and reshoot.
RED Dragon-X owner/operator here. I shoot interiors...mostly property videos for high end real estate. I've read some comments comparing RED to Apple, and I think that's pretty spot-on. However, when it was commented, it was done so negatively and I don't agree with that. Look, both RED and Apple's prices for their professional gear is obscene and there's absolutely no justifying it against the feature sets of the competition. Yet, I don't know many people who have used Apple Mac Pro's or RED cine cams who are not impressed by the quality of those products. Lets not forget that RED uses arguably the best RAW codec ever to exist, and if you haven't had the pleasure of working with R3D files in the IPP2 workflow, you really have no idea what you're talking about. The color and exposure latitude is insane, and for someone like me, a solo run and gun shooter, that's pretty clutch to my workflow. I don't have to nail exposure and white balance for every shot (and with interiors both of those things change 20x per property) to be able to cut together a decent video quickly in post. Using the RED actually saves me considerable time both on site and in post vs what I was using before. Besides that, with several hundred hours on my Dragon, I have had zero problems or failures. Granted, the Canon stuff is known to be tough too, but film crews literally hang REDs off of helicopters in deserts. So yes, the C500ii is unquestionably the better value, but that doesn't mean the RED is not worth it's price. It was to me, and I love shooting with it.
no doubt, REDCODE RAW is awesome, also I'm not getting rid of my RED and have been shooting RED for the better part of 7 years...I don't see myself moving away from RED as long as I have a crew. If this COVID pivot continues, my RED will likely get benched more often.
I was debating b/w C500 Mii & RED Dragon -X 6K... I wanted into the RED ecosystem... But COO, Canon AF, built in ND... Why wouldn't you go C500 II as a business owner... If only I had all the money.
both are great cameras it would be difficult to say one is better than the other. To me the C500 Mark II can act as a super35 camera, which is why I chose it.
Outstanding review. I was excited when I got into the Red ecosystem...then the cost caught up to me. I often leave the Red home because its just easier/cheaper to operate the Blackmagic Ursa mini 4.6k. The image stabilization, autofocus and the cost of the C500 Mark II is having me rethink a lot.
I hate how overpriced a lot of reds accessories are, like a $500 handle seriously. I know that somethings have to be more expensive because of large R&D overhead and a limited amount of the units being made which would diminish the economies of scale, compared to something from a more main stream and larger company like a Canon or Sony etc., but a handle does not cost $500 to make.
@@carlosq00 Of course it did😊 Loving the RED image. Andy maybe one day I own one. Or an Alexa, cause I like the looks so much more😉 Just needs some more clients that have bigger budgets😊
The C500 mkii is my absolute dream camera, and I look forward to owning one eventually; however, Red makes a wonderful camera too. The negative thing about the Red is that you pay a very high premium for anything extra beyond the Red brain. Without a doubt, the pricing on a ready to shoot Red is very high. The fact that the C500 mkii is pretty much ready to go out of the box makes it very appealing.
@Carlos - That Canon C500 Mark II 6K is an absolutely amazing piece of equipment, $18k vs $47k is no brainer. Have you tired any of Arii's signature Prime Lenses on it?
Well, let's just see how the Red Komodo compares to the RF cinema camera that Canon is working on. I'm only interested in RF systems. Hopefully, the Canon will be 8k and large format sensor. I know it sucks that the Komodo is only 6K Super 35, but one of these days someone will make an RF cinema camera with LF sensor, or even 65mm sensor. I would love that.
@@CoolhandLukeSkywalkr It is not a serious question although I am not entirely sure it classifies as sarcasm. It is a repetition of your statement meant to illustrate the absurdity of the belief that these qualifications are not enough.
Amazing video Carlos! The time it takes to switch ND filters on the Red costs time as well when on set. My question is can you fit Arri master primes to the canon C500 mark ii? Also would the cannon benefit from an external recorder?
Yes, on the Arri Master Primes - just need to change out the lens mount. I have to test the external recorder. I can't imagine that the quality would improve over 12-bit RAW though.
So. In another sense. You could own 3 full equipped c500 mark 2 with everything included for the price of one full equipped red helium. Let’s think about that. Not only you will be owning 3 c500 mark 2 and you can potentially increasing productivity and make more money.
Even if i won the lottery i would buy C500 Mk. II and memorycards, harddrives, batteries, a powersupplys and other accesories, or maybe 3 instead of just one Red. That's for sure.
well I broke even with my RED at 47 Days of ownership...and started making a profit on day 60. On the flip side, my first C500 Mark II was paid for before it arrived...so the earning potential is leaning toward the C500Mark2
Hi thank you very much I work on getting a Canon C200 A When I win lottery I will get C500 M2 the Red is to high in price for me. I hope I can work for you.
To be totally fair speaking on economics, you could have mentionned that RED does camera kits, and for the Dragon ( 6k, like Canon C500MII, which isn't able to record 8K ), it cost 20K, with the EF Mount, Red touch, the handle, the v-lock I/O, 2 batteries w/ charger, a mini mag of 480Gb, a solid case and a 650$ lens. With that kit, the competition would be more fair don't you think ? And the cost almost identical no ?
@@KarmaIsABitsch if I add to choose right know between C500 and RED, I would probably wonder, if price is that critical in my choice, if I go for the Dragon Kit vs C500 rather than the Helium. The fact that it's FF isn't that game changing as most cinema camera aren't FF... It still can be added to a pros/cons list, specs cannot be all the same depending of brand priorities... We're talking about cost here...
@@SczMotionDesign Well If you want to talk about Cost: Just look at the cost of the RedMags. And add that into your calculations. It adds so much to the List. Plus add Storage to the List. Even tho redraw is a really good compressed codec it still eats up a lot of hard Drive space. As a Red user that's something I forgot about when i first used the camera. And the Dragon sensor really isn't that good of a sensor. tbh.
@@KarmaIsABitsch : I agree. I don't argue that RED is better or not. Just that the faire comparison would be with a Dragon in kit, then you really start talking about real economics, as you mentioned, with things that really do the difference in the long run. That being said, I am in fact, really thinking about buy this RED Dragon kit. Why would you say Dragon is not a really good sensor ?
I know exactly what that feels like. I am going to put my RED package up for sale this month or early April. I think I am going to ask for $21-$25K for the entire package still deciding in case you're interested.
I will never understand why anyone wants to buy the Canon C500 insteaed of the Black Magic Ursa Mini Pro G2. There is no reason for it but brand loyalty. Let sum up: Ursa Mini Pro G2 (EF mount natively) + Ursa Mini Viewfinder (one of the best on the market) + Shoulder mount + top handle (the shoulder mount also includes 15mm rod holes, for matte box maybe) + SSD recorder (waaaay cheaper recording) + V-Mount plate + PL mount + Side handle: all inclusive = about 8600$ - depending on where you buy. The Ursa Mini Pro G2 shots higher frame rates, offers even more lens mounts like B4 (broadcast), is less convoluted with buttons, also comes with build in NDs ect. So if you want some nice quality image for a buget price the Ursa Mini Pro G2 is unbeaten.
All of this is true but is not a FF camera, the Canon C500 MarkII is, so people looking to move their production into FF wouldn't really be looking at the Ursa Mini Pro G2 as an option.
Hey Carlos if I can get the Helium 8k 60fps brain with like new hours for 12k would you pull the trigger? I was gonna get accessories used from a Red owner here in LA for cheaper. What’s do you think?
I think that the brain at that price is a great deal. If I was making that decision today, given the size of the investment, I might hold out for a FF option, but it would be tempting.
Carlos Quintero thanks I didn’t buy it I don’t like the crop going down in resolution, I really like the quality of the zcam f6 and I’m going to be testing it out this week.
Over the years, we have all had potential heart failure when looking at the costs involved with kitting out RED cameras with various bits and pieces. However, when it's all itemized in one go like this, a heart attack is a certainty!
i have a question that i have been searching for an answer hopefully you can help! CAN YOU SHOOT DIRECT TO SSD with the c500 mii? is there any creative rig/set up you could use to make that happen?
you mean the cost of ownership depends on the workflow? The workflow adds to the cots for sure. The requirements dictate what tools we use, at least that is how it has been throughout my career. Well, requirements and budget because everyone would choose a full blown Hollywood Blockbuster but few have that kind of budget.
Ego takes a hit when you spend a lot of money and that investment is challenged. Not for me though, the right tool for the job is simply the right tool. And today, in the full frame offering with the level of flexibility that the C500 Mark II offers, it doesn't have any real competitors not in image quality, not in color science, not in resolution and definitely not in price.
Why RUclipsrs are talking like super experts of cinema gear. We all know that your target audience is consumer-level non of the professionals would lesson this kind of crup. Canon is Great and you could show its benefits without throwing garbage at the company that changed the cinema "RED". You are talking about files and who would ever dare to compare R3D files to canons Clog it sounds ridiculous, really it is. why aren't you talking about 16+ dynamic range, super crisp footage, "real HDR" compressed raw e.x? and why are you so excited about built-in accessories on cameras? because of that, it is impossible to mount them on a gimbal or drone. When you purchased RED you should have known how to assemble it, and if you have built it wrongly, please, don't blame them for that. the Red mounts are the best decision they've made it gives their users the possibility to use a professional mount and not a crappy adapter on their lenses. and one question after all this time of using RED are you still think that RED's brain is a body? trust me it's a brain. And shame on your pinned comment. It makes my comment even clearer.
Red sounds like the Apple of Cinema gear.
haha #donglelife
red as apple suck
@@art_means_artificial agree, kinda good but ridiculously overpriced, RED is an awful company. Unfortunately brand perception is real, and some even say it sometimes help you land a gig... I am in this situation where given the choice I would still buy a c300mkIII, but maybe a RED is the smart 'buisness' move... Ugh, I am lost
Here is a quick and dirty C500 Mark II vs RED cost of ownership comparison. There are many other expenses like media storage and a computer that can work efficiently with these beefy codecs, but I think you will get my point. Also, this video was shot after we wrapped for the day so the setup made it so I didn't have a monitor and the light in my eyes drives me crazy, but I don't have time to stop this week and reshoot.
RED Dragon-X owner/operator here. I shoot interiors...mostly property videos for high end real estate. I've read some comments comparing RED to Apple, and I think that's pretty spot-on. However, when it was commented, it was done so negatively and I don't agree with that. Look, both RED and Apple's prices for their professional gear is obscene and there's absolutely no justifying it against the feature sets of the competition. Yet, I don't know many people who have used Apple Mac Pro's or RED cine cams who are not impressed by the quality of those products. Lets not forget that RED uses arguably the best RAW codec ever to exist, and if you haven't had the pleasure of working with R3D files in the IPP2 workflow, you really have no idea what you're talking about. The color and exposure latitude is insane, and for someone like me, a solo run and gun shooter, that's pretty clutch to my workflow. I don't have to nail exposure and white balance for every shot (and with interiors both of those things change 20x per property) to be able to cut together a decent video quickly in post. Using the RED actually saves me considerable time both on site and in post vs what I was using before. Besides that, with several hundred hours on my Dragon, I have had zero problems or failures. Granted, the Canon stuff is known to be tough too, but film crews literally hang REDs off of helicopters in deserts.
So yes, the C500ii is unquestionably the better value, but that doesn't mean the RED is not worth it's price. It was to me, and I love shooting with it.
no doubt, REDCODE RAW is awesome, also I'm not getting rid of my RED and have been shooting RED for the better part of 7 years...I don't see myself moving away from RED as long as I have a crew. If this COVID pivot continues, my RED will likely get benched more often.
I was debating b/w C500 Mii & RED Dragon -X 6K... I wanted into the RED ecosystem... But COO, Canon AF, built in ND... Why wouldn't you go C500 II as a business owner... If only I had all the money.
USA is the best marketing warrior. They are good at washing brain.
C300 mark3 or c500 mark3 ?what do you believe for c300 mark3 ?thank you your videos are pro level
both are great cameras it would be difficult to say one is better than the other. To me the C500 Mark II can act as a super35 camera, which is why I chose it.
Outstanding review. I was excited when I got into the Red ecosystem...then the cost caught up to me. I often leave the Red home because its just easier/cheaper to operate the Blackmagic Ursa mini 4.6k. The image stabilization, autofocus and the cost of the C500 Mark II is having me rethink a lot.
I hear you...my RED has been on the bench for the past two weeks of production...
I hate how overpriced a lot of reds accessories are, like a $500 handle seriously. I know that somethings have to be more expensive because of large R&D overhead and a limited amount of the units being made which would diminish the economies of scale, compared to something from a more main stream and larger company like a Canon or Sony etc., but a handle does not cost $500 to make.
Also nice video, it was fun to watch and it was nice to see the perspective of a real business owner. 🙂
The color science and dynamic range on the Red is hands down better.
Generally speaking I will agree but specifically speaking when it comes to the C500 Mark II, we will find out when I put them head to head next week.
Great video Carlos, thanks for sharing. Really enjoying watching your c500 ii videos!
Thanks Griffin and if I heard you right on your video congratulations on your engagement!
Carlos Quintero that’s right I got engaged a few months ago. Thank you Carlos!
Yes! I am going to buy the c500 ii just in .... several years. Thanks for the vid :).
thanks for watching
Thanks for the detailed comparison. Did not know, that RED needs so much more gear to make it work. Only thought about monitor and battery before🤷♂️
but without a doubt, it does produce a gorgeous image.
@@carlosq00 Of course it did😊 Loving the RED image. Andy maybe one day I own one. Or an Alexa, cause I like the looks so much more😉 Just needs some more clients that have bigger budgets😊
The C500 mkii is my absolute dream camera, and I look forward to owning one eventually; however, Red makes a wonderful camera too. The negative thing about the Red is that you pay a very high premium for anything extra beyond the Red brain. Without a doubt, the pricing on a ready to shoot Red is very high. The fact that the C500 mkii is pretty much ready to go out of the box makes it very appealing.
We'll be comparing image quality in the near future to try and answer the question of is it worth it?
@Carlos - That Canon C500 Mark II 6K is an absolutely amazing piece of equipment, $18k vs $47k is no brainer. Have you tired any of Arii's signature Prime Lenses on it?
I've used the Master Primes a few times with the C500 Mark II, beautiful picture no doubt
Well, let's just see how the Red Komodo compares to the RF cinema camera that Canon is working on. I'm only interested in RF systems. Hopefully, the Canon will be 8k and large format sensor. I know it sucks that the Komodo is only 6K Super 35, but one of these days someone will make an RF cinema camera with LF sensor, or even 65mm sensor. I would love that.
Only 6k Super 35 ?
@@konstantinosstag6436 Is that sarcasm or a serious question 🤔?
@@CoolhandLukeSkywalkr It is not a serious question although I am not entirely sure it classifies as sarcasm. It is a repetition of your statement meant to illustrate the absurdity of the belief that these qualifications are not enough.
C500 Mark II is amazing!! I got mine couple of weeks ago.
Congratulations Ed and I agree it sure is amazing.
@@carlosq00 Thank you Carlos.
Amazing video Carlos! The time it takes to switch ND filters on the Red costs time as well when on set. My question is can you fit Arri master primes to the canon C500 mark ii? Also would the cannon benefit from an external recorder?
Yes, on the Arri Master Primes - just need to change out the lens mount. I have to test the external recorder. I can't imagine that the quality would improve over 12-bit RAW though.
Great video man. I think the C500ii is the perfect camera, but a little out of my budget.
I can't wait for you to start sharing 1DXM3 content!
So. In another sense. You could own 3 full equipped c500 mark 2 with everything included for the price of one full equipped red helium. Let’s think about that. Not only you will be owning 3 c500 mark 2 and you can potentially increasing productivity and make more money.
so true...
Even if i won the lottery i would buy C500 Mk. II and memorycards, harddrives, batteries, a powersupplys and other accesories, or maybe 3 instead of just one Red. That's for sure.
that is kind of the direction that my head and heart are headed...
Great video which do you think you can or will make the most money with?
well I broke even with my RED at 47 Days of ownership...and started making a profit on day 60. On the flip side, my first C500 Mark II was paid for before it arrived...so the earning potential is leaning toward the C500Mark2
Carlos Quintero interesting I’m considering the Komodo depending on its specs any thoughts on it ?
Hi thank you very much I work on getting a Canon C200 A When I win lottery I will get C500 M2
the Red is to high in price for me. I hope I can work for you.
The C200 is a great camera
To be totally fair speaking on economics, you could have mentionned that RED does camera kits, and for the Dragon ( 6k, like Canon C500MII, which isn't able to record 8K ), it cost 20K, with the EF Mount, Red touch, the handle, the v-lock I/O, 2 batteries w/ charger, a mini mag of 480Gb, a solid case and a 650$ lens. With that kit, the competition would be more fair don't you think ? And the cost almost identical no ?
Not really. Even the Helium sensor which he has in his comparison is not a FF sensor. You would have to invest way more into the body.
@@KarmaIsABitsch if I add to choose right know between C500 and RED, I would probably wonder, if price is that critical in my choice, if I go for the Dragon Kit vs C500 rather than the Helium. The fact that it's FF isn't that game changing as most cinema camera aren't FF... It still can be added to a pros/cons list, specs cannot be all the same depending of brand priorities... We're talking about cost here...
@@SczMotionDesign
Well If you want to talk about Cost: Just look at the cost of the RedMags. And add that into your calculations. It adds so much to the List. Plus add Storage to the List. Even tho redraw is a really good compressed codec it still eats up a lot of hard Drive space. As a Red user that's something I forgot about when i first used the camera. And the Dragon sensor really isn't that good of a sensor. tbh.
@@KarmaIsABitsch : I agree. I don't argue that RED is better or not. Just that the faire comparison would be with a Dragon in kit, then you really start talking about real economics, as you mentioned, with things that really do the difference in the long run. That being said, I am in fact, really thinking about buy this RED Dragon kit. Why would you say Dragon is not a really good sensor ?
@@SczMotionDesign It's never that easy, is it?
Very thorough. One of the best comparisons video I’ve seen. Thanks very much.
Thank you so much..you are best ❤
Thanks!
Nice overview
Thanks!
Thanks for the info Carlos...much appreciated!
thanks John
My heart says RED, my brain says C500 mkII.
I know exactly what that feels like. I am going to put my RED package up for sale this month or early April. I think I am going to ask for $21-$25K for the entire package still deciding in case you're interested.
USA is the best marketing warrior. They are good at washing brain.
so are selling the Red? :-)
Yes, I actually am.
How do you like the Miller tripod?
It is great have been using it for about 5 years and it still feels and functions as if it was new.
@@carlosq00 Awesome, thanks!
I will never understand why anyone wants to buy the Canon C500 insteaed of the Black Magic Ursa Mini Pro G2. There is no reason for it but brand loyalty. Let sum up:
Ursa Mini Pro G2 (EF mount natively) +
Ursa Mini Viewfinder (one of the best on the market) +
Shoulder mount + top handle (the shoulder mount also includes 15mm rod holes, for matte box maybe) +
SSD recorder (waaaay cheaper recording) +
V-Mount plate +
PL mount +
Side handle: all inclusive = about 8600$ - depending on where you buy.
The Ursa Mini Pro G2 shots higher frame rates, offers even more lens mounts like B4 (broadcast), is less convoluted with buttons, also comes with build in NDs ect. So if you want some nice quality image for a buget price the Ursa Mini Pro G2 is unbeaten.
All of this is true but is not a FF camera, the Canon C500 MarkII is, so people looking to move their production into FF wouldn't really be looking at the Ursa Mini Pro G2 as an option.
There is one point... which is important for many run and gun users, the auto focus and reliability. Ursa Mini is basically useless at this point
The weight, full frame, autofocus, low light all matters
Hey Carlos if I can get the Helium 8k 60fps brain with like new hours for 12k would you pull the trigger? I was gonna get accessories used from a Red owner here in LA for cheaper. What’s do you think?
I think that the brain at that price is a great deal. If I was making that decision today, given the size of the investment, I might hold out for a FF option, but it would be tempting.
Carlos Quintero thanks I didn’t buy it I don’t like the crop going down in resolution, I really like the quality of the zcam f6 and I’m going to be testing it out this week.
Over the years, we have all had potential heart failure when looking at the costs involved with kitting out RED cameras with various bits and pieces. However, when it's all itemized in one go like this,
a heart attack is a certainty!
haha and yet, we spent the cash anyway
i have a question that i have been searching for an answer hopefully you can help! CAN YOU SHOOT DIRECT TO SSD with the c500 mii? is there any creative rig/set up you could use to make that happen?
not without an external recorder like the Ninja V or similar.
@@carlosq00 that's what I figured.. buuuut seems like doing the most lol
The RED paper shopping bag to carry it home costs... $950.
haha
The Red is like buying a new car at the Parts Department. What a trap. I really hate things that are proprietary designs. Really interesting show.
thanks for this comparison
thanks Morana
It's still depends on the workflow and requirements
you mean the cost of ownership depends on the workflow? The workflow adds to the cots for sure. The requirements dictate what tools we use, at least that is how it has been throughout my career. Well, requirements and budget because everyone would choose a full blown Hollywood Blockbuster but few have that kind of budget.
“ Thank you RED. We will take it from here.”
haha
RED is history with their buisiness model
no doubt, they know how to make money.
Apple's business model
Canon just drop kicked RED.
haha in price for sure
USA is the best marketing warrior. They are good at washing brain.
sit jusy say it ...Red is jerking their customers ...i bought my red as a used kit and save lot of cheese to mice with
the red camera are way too xpensive...
they are expensive
Red has fanboys!?... IN 2020?🤯
haha they sure do
Look at the haters giving thumbs down dwl
Ego takes a hit when you spend a lot of money and that investment is challenged. Not for me though, the right tool for the job is simply the right tool. And today, in the full frame offering with the level of flexibility that the C500 Mark II offers, it doesn't have any real competitors not in image quality, not in color science, not in resolution and definitely not in price.
@@carlosq00 agreed. It's going to be my next purchase
Why RUclipsrs are talking like super experts of cinema gear. We all know that your target audience is consumer-level non of the professionals would lesson this kind of crup.
Canon is Great and you could show its benefits without throwing garbage at the company that changed the cinema "RED".
You are talking about files and who would ever dare to compare R3D files to canons Clog it sounds ridiculous, really it is.
why aren't you talking about 16+ dynamic range, super crisp footage, "real HDR" compressed raw e.x?
and why are you so excited about built-in accessories on cameras? because of that, it is impossible to mount them on a gimbal or drone.
When you purchased RED you should have known how to assemble it, and if you have built it wrongly, please, don't blame them for that.
the Red mounts are the best decision they've made it gives their users the possibility to use a professional mount and not a crappy adapter on their lenses.
and one question after all this time of using RED are you still think that RED's brain is a body? trust me it's a brain.
And shame on your pinned comment. It makes my comment even clearer.
dis review is damn expensive.
yeah
Ripp off