For starters, that fmj ammo is made for target shooting. It is loaded to a lower velocity. Secondly, the lead is much, much softer than hardcast. Lower velocity and deformation causes reduced penetration. Extra bullet weight for the hardcast just adds to the difference. Good demonstration, thanks for sharing.
Not quite true. Ive shot sig and hardcast underwood into wood and the hardcast deformed 60% of the time and the fmjs only 10%. The fmj kept its shape and didnt mushroom at the front like the hc. And this sig ammo is loaded stout at 1250 fps and about 600 ft lbs
The 200 gr. hardcast being loaded hotter, resisting deformation, and having a bit higher ballistic coefficient, it should out penetrate the FMJ. But the FMJ may create a more devastating wound, as it deforms, expands, and begins to tumble. My experience is the deformation and tumbling of the softer FMJ keeps it from penetrating like a hardcast, but it causes more wounding along its wound channel. In the hogs I've shot, I usually get between 20 and 30 inches of penetration with that Sellier and Bellot 10mm ammo.
You know, I'm thinking that for black bears, the full metal jacket, especially some of the offerings that are in the 1200 feet per second range, would be fine for black bear or mountain lion Etc. But if I was in Grizzly country, it's certainly would be the hardcast. Good test. Thank you
thanks for this demonstration, i was a bit surprised that hardcast ammo performed that much better than fmj ball ammo. i mostly shoot rimfire or revolvers, i’m not a hunter and i have no plans to explore grizzly bear country. my centerfire ammo is all fmj ball, except for 38sp wadcutters to tame recoil in a lightweight revolver. no special defensive ammo for me, my range ammo is my carry ammo too, just as the army first taught me with fmj ball ammo in 1972.
It was my pleasure brother and for self defense I too carry fmj or hallow point, but I bought this hard cast for last Montana elk hunt. Thank God I did not have to use it and Thank God again I got to use my 7 mm Rem Mag. ;-) Thank you for your service, stay safe and God bless.
Given the huge increase in KE the 10mm with light hollow points that are bonded are best for defense. Fmj will push aside vital organs vs the edges of the expanded bullet cutting flesh and vital organs. This does not even address the risk of collateral damage to other property and innocent bystanders that a pass through that "will occure" when using FMJ as defense. A .380 will penetrate near 30 in in gel with 90 gr FMJ. A 10mm shooting perhaps 200 fps faster with allot more KE will no doubt really penetrate more. Its the moral and legal responibility of the user of guns to limit damage to the intended target. Lacking that it becomes another negative stastic of irresponsiblity against pro carry.
I've recently been wanting someone to make some hard cast .410 foster slugs as I have a smoothbore. 410 and have thought about the .41 mag hard cast bullets but I don't think they'll shoot accurately through my .410 shotgun . Although I think I want those foster slugs solid not hollow . What do ya'll think ?
Good video but for 10mm FMJ against hard cast get 165 or 180 grain flatnose FMJ also by Underwood. That is the only FMJ i would compare against hard cast. The Sellier & Bellot is target ammo and will never be a comparison for hard cast.
Yes you are right brother, but wanted to compare it with cheapest FMJ. If I was going to pay good money for Underwood FMJ, I would just spend little more and get hard cast for grizzly protection. Stay safe n God bless.
@@vameathunter2771 i understand but the Underwood comes in a 50rd box for less than $1 a round still. I did a test on the 165gr fmj and they were definitely using the Speer bonded TMJ. Think it'd perform well in this test!
Couple of factors. 1. Hard cast is hard. Sort of similar to fmg. 2. The velocity was not listed but 40 more grains of weight will create more KE with the 220. It does not surprise me with the results. Knowledgeable hand gunners respect what cast bullets bring as performance. The correct size and appropriate hardness are factors.
I just paid $1 per round of 10mm Sellier & Bellot 180gr fmj, I really wanted hard cast but cant find them anywhere locally, they had the same brand with better bullets for $2 per round! this is pure insanity, its like your being forced to reload
LOL! Thanks to pandemic I'm forced to reload and volunteer at the shooting range because too many officers won't show up for their duties. Gotta do what you gotta do brother, God bless.
How many times do you actually think you would have shoot to defend yourself from grizzly I think one box of hard cast will last long time. For that scenario. So why cheap out. Not like it's going to be every weekend thing.
Thanks for the video brother! I bought a bunch of that Sellier and Bellot ammo on sale and I'm glad to see it had some decent performance penetrating the wood. It feels good and snappy when I shoot it. I'm curious what it would read through a chronograph. I haven't invested in a chronograph yet but I will soon once I get home later in the fall. I am starting to reload ammo as a winter/rainy day hobby and I have been told that it is good to have for testing powder loads. The Sellier and Bellot has good brass which is why I bought a bunch of it. Take care and good luck on your hunts this season.
The S&B 10mm seems to be reliable, but it is loaded light for 10mm. It gets about 950-1050 FPS from some lots, so essentially .40 S&W, so it's not anything close to real 10mm loads. Some other lots apparently get closer to their stated velocity, but that is still relatively light. If you want some closer to full power 10mm FMJs for practice, the Sig FMJ's are about the best choice, I've seen them get over 1300 FPS out of a Glock 20. I believe the Blazer Brass 180 grain (not the 200 grain aluminum case stuff) is actually loaded reasonably well (1200-1220 FPS). Other than that, you have to buy from expensive premium brands like Underwood or Buffalo Bore, or just deal with the pud loaded stuff.
Yes, but many professionals are recommending to use a caliber (ammunition) that can penetrate bear's skull during the attack and I believe hard wood penetration test will prove a point. 😅
@@jaxbeach09 think about it this 15 shots with a 40 is gonna stop a grizzly faster than 6 shots with a 44mag because the likelihood of you landing all 6 shots is pretty low
You chose the weakest 10mm FMJ and compared it to the hottest Hard Cast ... I shoot S&B all the time and have no doubt it would do the job as good as any .45+P and even the hottest .40 SW but the UW ammo is in another league.
If a bear was charging at you and you needed to put it down to save your ass, would you really be complaining that you spent $0.70 per round for the Hard Cast, which has almost 30% more foot pounds of energy?
Thank you, that was very clear, direct, and to the point. This is very helpful for me.
It was my pleasure brother. Stay safe n God bless.
For starters, that fmj ammo is made for target shooting. It is loaded to a lower velocity. Secondly, the lead is much, much softer than hardcast. Lower velocity and deformation causes reduced penetration. Extra bullet weight for the hardcast just adds to the difference. Good demonstration, thanks for sharing.
My pleasure and thanks for the info. Stay safe n God bless.
The hard cast is a lead round, and not soft lead. I have never even seen a soft lead 10mm round, unless your looking at jacketed hollow points
Not quite true. Ive shot sig and hardcast underwood into wood and the hardcast deformed 60% of the time and the fmjs only 10%. The fmj kept its shape and didnt mushroom at the front like the hc. And this sig ammo is loaded stout at 1250 fps and about 600 ft lbs
I’ve been watching for a video just like this. Yours was just what I was looking for. Thanks!
Great! Thanks bro n God bless
The 200 gr. hardcast being loaded hotter, resisting deformation, and having a bit higher ballistic coefficient, it should out penetrate the FMJ. But the FMJ may create a more devastating wound, as it deforms, expands, and begins to tumble. My experience is the deformation and tumbling of the softer FMJ keeps it from penetrating like a hardcast, but it causes more wounding along its wound channel. In the hogs I've shot, I usually get between 20 and 30 inches of penetration with that Sellier and Bellot 10mm ammo.
Yes, you are right bro and thanks for sharing. God bless.
I like your channel bro and I subscribed. God bless.
@@vameathunter2771 Cool man, I liked this video too.
I'm a 10mm guy myself, so I just subbed you for whatever info you bring to the table, thx for the vid.
Thank you and it was my pleasure. God bless.
FMJ tend to use soft lead cores. I would love to see someone make a hard lead core FMJ for even more penetration.
YUP! That would be interesting, thanks for watching n God bless.
You know, I'm thinking that for black bears, the full metal jacket, especially some of the offerings that are in the 1200 feet per second range, would be fine for black bear or mountain lion Etc. But if I was in Grizzly country, it's certainly would be the hardcast. Good test. Thank you
YUP! I agree with you and it was my pleasure.
thanks for this demonstration, i was a bit surprised that hardcast ammo performed that much better than fmj ball ammo. i mostly shoot rimfire or revolvers, i’m not a hunter and i have no plans to explore grizzly bear country. my centerfire ammo is all fmj ball, except for 38sp wadcutters to tame recoil in a lightweight revolver. no special defensive ammo for me, my range ammo is my carry ammo too, just as the army first taught me with fmj ball ammo in 1972.
It was my pleasure brother and for self defense I too carry fmj or hallow point, but I bought this hard cast for last Montana elk hunt. Thank God I did not have to use it and Thank God again I got to use my 7 mm Rem Mag. ;-)
Thank you for your service, stay safe and God bless.
@@vameathunter2771 do you use a stock barrel for the hard cast?
@@Dbshortz420 Yes, but barely shoot it with hard cast.
generally what I carry in my 10mm for everyday is the FMJ. Has alot of power behind it. Hollow points when I CCW or on duty.
WOW! You can use any bullet for self defense in 10mm. When I tested 10mm vs 357 Mag. 10mm won by far. Thanks for watching, stay safe n God bless.
@@vameathunter2771 yes, 10mm is comparable to .41 caliber
@@TTiger86268 Yup! 41mag. ;-)
Given the huge increase in KE the 10mm with light hollow points that are bonded are best for defense. Fmj will push aside vital organs vs the edges of the expanded bullet cutting flesh and vital organs. This does not even address the risk of collateral damage to other property and innocent bystanders that a pass through that "will occure" when using FMJ as defense. A .380 will penetrate near 30 in in gel with 90 gr FMJ. A 10mm shooting perhaps 200 fps faster with allot more KE will no doubt really penetrate more. Its the moral and legal responibility of the user of guns to limit damage to the intended target. Lacking that it becomes another negative stastic of irresponsiblity against pro carry.
I've recently been wanting someone to make some hard cast .410 foster slugs as I have a smoothbore. 410 and have thought about the .41 mag hard cast bullets but I don't think they'll shoot accurately through my .410 shotgun . Although I think I want those foster slugs solid not hollow . What do ya'll think ?
I have always known that 10mm had a wide area of effectiveness, which is the beauty of the 10mm. Good test, effective results 👌.
Thanks bro n God bless.
Most commercially available 10mm range ammo is loaded to .40 s&w specs
Thanks for the info n God bless
Yep, would have had better results with mag tech fmj, higher velocity.
@@alanalameda5636 I agree.
I love my Glock 20. Great carry out in the woods. Those mountain lions don't stand a chance!
Sounds great brother, happy Thanksgiving n God bless.
Good video but for 10mm FMJ against hard cast get 165 or 180 grain flatnose FMJ also by Underwood. That is the only FMJ i would compare against hard cast. The Sellier & Bellot is target ammo and will never be a comparison for hard cast.
Yes you are right brother, but wanted to compare it with cheapest FMJ. If I was going to pay good money for Underwood FMJ, I would just spend little more and get hard cast for grizzly protection. Stay safe n God bless.
@@vameathunter2771 i agree. I live in Alaska and hard cast is what i use for my bear protection.
Grizzly Ammo 200gr Hardcast very popular in Alaska in Glock 20.
YUP! Thanks for sharing.
Nice vid. Man I wish they were still .30 cents a pop. There 65-70 now. Love my 10mm thou
Yup! you n me both.
Paying 70 cents a round currently for FMJ 180gr, the underwood and buffalo bore stuff is like $2.50 per round lmao
American Ordinance sells them for $0.50 last time I checked... 180gr fmj flat nose. They sell on gunbroker as well.
If the bullets weigh the same and were traveling at the same speed the result would have been very close if not the same.
I agree brother.
Cool test, until you talked about hitting a nail. Plus was different grains. Should have used Underwood FMJ way closer test.
YUP! I was disappointed about the nail as well. and I wanted to test out what I had. Thanks for watching.
That S&B IS LOADED at 40s&w and isn't a bonded bullet. Should have used the Underwood 180gr fmj bonded flat nose
I just wanted to try the cheapest fmj ammo I had. Thanks for watching n God bless.
@@vameathunter2771 i understand but the Underwood comes in a 50rd box for less than $1 a round still. I did a test on the 165gr fmj and they were definitely using the Speer bonded TMJ. Think it'd perform well in this test!
@@AlaskanBallistics Thanks for the info bro.
Do you shoot hard cast through a stock Glock barrel? Just got my G20 and trying to understand my options. Thank you for the great video.
Congrats bro! Yes, I do and I believe it's okay with Glock barrel.
@@vameathunter2771 thank you!
Couple of factors. 1. Hard cast is hard. Sort of similar to fmg. 2. The velocity was not listed but 40 more grains of weight will create more KE with the 220. It does not surprise me with the results. Knowledgeable hand gunners respect what cast bullets bring as performance. The correct size and appropriate hardness are factors.
Thanks for your comment John n God bless.
No attention to the velocity. There are FMJ's out there that zip along at much higher velocities & energy than one used here.
I agree, this is a simple comparison with what I have.
For the life of me i would never touch a jhp or hollow point bullet. ball, flat nose, fmj & hardcast is where its at
Yep! Thanks for sharing.
Good video!
Thanks bro!
I just paid $1 per round of 10mm Sellier & Bellot 180gr fmj, I really wanted hard cast but cant find them anywhere locally, they had the same brand with better bullets for $2 per round! this is pure insanity, its like your being forced to reload
LOL! Thanks to pandemic I'm forced to reload and volunteer at the shooting range because too many officers won't show up for their duties. Gotta do what you gotta do brother, God bless.
Is that Glock 40, doc? How do u carry that in the woods?
Yup! I side carry on my belt, it's little bulky but very doable😆 God bless.
How many times do you actually think you would have shoot to defend yourself from grizzly I think one box of hard cast will last long time. For that scenario. So why cheap out. Not like it's going to be every weekend thing.
LOL! Yup! Drawing an elk tag is like once every 3-5 years. Thanks for watching n God bless.
I’d love to know where you’re getting FMJ 10mm for $0.30 a round lol
😂🤣😂 Me too, I bought these when everything was so much cheaper and easy to find.
Thanks for the video brother! I bought a bunch of that Sellier and Bellot ammo on sale and I'm glad to see it had some decent performance penetrating the wood. It feels good and snappy when I shoot it. I'm curious what it would read through a chronograph. I haven't invested in a chronograph yet but I will soon once I get home later in the fall. I am starting to reload ammo as a winter/rainy day hobby and I have been told that it is good to have for testing powder loads. The Sellier and Bellot has good brass which is why I bought a bunch of it. Take care and good luck on your hunts this season.
Thank you brother and I'll be hunting with 10mm this early season. God bless bless your season n be safe.
The S&B 10mm seems to be reliable, but it is loaded light for 10mm.
It gets about 950-1050 FPS from some lots, so essentially .40 S&W, so it's not anything close to real 10mm loads.
Some other lots apparently get closer to their stated velocity, but that is still relatively light.
If you want some closer to full power 10mm FMJs for practice, the Sig FMJ's are about the best choice, I've seen them get over 1300 FPS out of a Glock 20.
I believe the Blazer Brass 180 grain (not the 200 grain aluminum case stuff) is actually loaded reasonably well (1200-1220 FPS).
Other than that, you have to buy from expensive premium brands like Underwood or Buffalo Bore, or just deal with the pud loaded stuff.
Great video
Thanks, God bless.
This is why you reload your own. Cast lead should be cheaper than fmj and much cheaper than jhp.
Really.... Thanks for the info brother. God bless.
🤣🤷🏻♂️
godofm3tal1 Handload = pain in the ass
7.5" super redhawk in that case? 😬 Love mine
Sounds great bro n God bless.
Nice 👍
Thanks n God bless.
Good video.. Life is not worth the budget..
LOL! I agree brother n God bless
PS bears are NOT made of wood unless you have tired wood over Gel and found it to be the same the rest is pointless
Yes, but many professionals are recommending to use a caliber (ammunition) that can penetrate bear's skull during the attack and I believe hard wood penetration test will prove a point. 😅
Id take a Glock in 40SW over a revolver for grizzly protection any day
Yup! I agree with you. ;-)
.40 cal over a revolver in what caliber?
You must be recoil sensitive if you have to shoot the .40 Short & Weak
@@jaxbeach09 think about it this 15 shots with a 40 is gonna stop a grizzly faster than 6 shots with a 44mag because the likelihood of you landing all 6 shots is pretty low
@@Gibblegobblegoob why not 15 shots with a 10mm?
should have used same grain bullet
Yes, but I wanted to test what I had. Thanks for watching.
That was unfair comparisons the hard Cash actually hit two nails need to redo test
I hear you brother, I'll be happy to redo after hunting season in May ;-)
Hard cast don't go well with stock Glock polygonal rifled barrels
Thanks for the info bro and I only load it for bear protection.
Wrong if it's coated it's fine.
You chose the weakest 10mm FMJ and compared it to the hottest Hard Cast ... I shoot S&B all the time and have no doubt it would do the job as good as any .45+P and even the hottest .40 SW but the UW ammo is in another league.
I'm sure you are right. I just had this ammo from breaking in my barrel when I first bought the pistol. Stay safe n God bless.
If a bear was charging at you and you needed to put it down to save your ass, would you really be complaining that you spent $0.70 per round for the Hard Cast, which has almost 30% more foot pounds of energy?
LOL! In that case money is not the issue.
Not sure I’d use a fmj for anything other than paper.
I agree brother and you have great boys. God bless n stay safe.
The variables and environment are not controlled when one type of bullet hits nails. You should have reshot that clip and never posted it.
YUP!
Nice video
Thanks bro n God bless.