1960's US Carrier Group vs Two 1970's UK Carrier Groups (Naval Battle 120) | DCS
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- In today's naval battle we pit a 1960's US Forrestal carrier group against two 1970's UK Audacious class carrier groups from UK. F-4B Phantom & A-4 Skyhawk vs F-4K FG1 Phantom.
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0:00 Intro
0:47 Scenario Overview
1:53 Scenario Details
8:46 Predictions
9:43 Battle
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#GRNavalBattle #DCSNavalBattle #F4 #Phantom #A4 #Skyhawk #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AircraftCarrier #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military #DCS 
Игры
Those Sea Cats really put the “miss” in missiles!
Command Line-Of-Sight must of had crosseyed operators.
Could be worse, could be sea slug
You could feel the pain in Cap's national pride watching the Seacats fail to hit anything
Meh, I'm used to it...
The Seacat was also optically guided, I knew a lady who was a missile operator in the eighties on board a destroyer & she was the only one who hit a target drone with a Seacat during a live fire exercise!
@@grimreapers
Hey man, look up the specs of the Malta class carriers.
You know it would be interesting to see a 70s US vs 80s UK with Harriers embarked. Like say the Falklands task force when both carriers were in theatre.
There's something so amusing about seeing one F-4 grudgingly attempt to out-rate another grumbling F-4. Also, the missiles here have the agility and accuracy of Ace Combat missiles.
I think in this case, once one US plane was free, it could turn into an individual version of a thatch weave...
This is kind of a ridiculous idea but how many 1960/70s carrier groups of any nation would it take to destroy or just beat a modern 2020s Carrier Strike Group?
haha too many xD
@@bpop2148oh yeah. I wonder if ammo would be a bigger problem than their planes. But it would be fun
@@Cosmos1713 I mean the 2020's would have missiles with longer range and better PK so they could just climb and launch the missiles far away and then land to rearm maybe? but as we know the AI will go in with guns against even props so that will probably not happen hehe
How many 60/70’s CGs (non American I’m assuming) would it take to beat a modern US CSG?
Simple. Not enough. You could send the entire world’s complement of 60/70s CGs in a combined force against a single 2020s US CSG and the US would still win.
Hi Cap,
from what I understand HMS Eagle could have operated Phantoms and did in trials as it's cats were powerful enough for them. The only reason they didn't was that blast deflectors needed upgrading to water cooled types plus a few other minor upgrades to the ship. Budget cuts in the late 60's meant that this work didn't happen as Eagles proposed refit was cancelled in favour of HMS Hermes upgrade. She was finally mothballed in 1972 and sold for scrap in 1978. If anyone has has more accurate info please feel free to correct me.
Also, while Eagle and Ark Royal were officially sister ships, modifications that occurred during Ark Royal's repeatedly delayed construction meant they were the same class in name only. Eagle was arguably a better ship, as it looks like it's better to have a ship that's completely obsolete than one that's half obsolete and spent a decade sitting incomplete.
Thanks
Also the completion of both ships was delayed. They were laid down in 1942/43, Eagle launched in 1946 but Ark Royal didn't launch until 1950. Eagle finally commissioned in 1951, Ark Royal not until 1955.
The long delays not only meant that Ark Royal could be significantly modified during construction, but also affected the hull condition of the ships.
In the end it would have been far better to have cancelled the entire Audacious class and built two of the Malta class instead (4 ordered in 1943). Not only would they have had greater utility, being designed for larger aircraft (effectively British equivalent of the UN Midways), but they actually would have cost less than the final cost of completing/converting the 2 Audacious. (And had lower maintenance costs in the long run, due to the poor condition of Eagle & Ark Royal caused by the delays.)
Eagle was in overhaul from 59 to 64. The upgrades where scheduled for 68, but they decided to phase out by 72 so it was cancelled.
Aside from the blast deflectors they needed stronger arresting systems to handle the F-4's weight. They also included an increase in deck area and angle, not sure if this was actually needed as the whole point of the engine change was to launch off the shorter decks.
Also, "all my controls have gotten reset" is basically the sim nerd version of instigating a bar fight and then screaming "bro hold me back, hold me back."
😂😂😂
Yup ^^^
Capability aside, the Phantom always wins the mean looks competition.😊
Moral of the story Cap, when it really really matters, nobody should fight Merica....
Since the other commen was a bot I want to thank you for the effort put into these videos and actually mean it!
On the visual aspect of the video, I think this is up there with the best. The terrain worked beautifully as the background, helped pull me into the dogfights. Well done sir !
worked on seacat when I was on HMS Fearless, you may as well thrown potatas in the air
So happy to see you doing some retro scenarios!
34:36 made me choke, too. I didn't expect an F-4 battle to be this entertaining.
I’m English so I know who I’m rooting for.
GO ON PHANTOMS GET EM
Waiiiitt….
Skyflash is essentially an AIM-7E-2 with a different seeker, and was used on the FG.1 and FGR.2
huge difference in capability
Wiki says didn't enter service until the Royal Navy FG.1 planes were disbanded. Wiki never lies.
The close range dogfight was one of the best you have done in a long time.
I love that your answer to a carrier glitch is an Apache. 😂
It was that or a manpad into the glitch 😂
@Grim Reapers - I love your Fleet battles, Cap!
"Team America, F*** Yeah!"
Completely did not see that outcome! The last 8 mins are hilarious!!😂😂😂😂😂
What no Buccaneers skimming 30 feet above the water with 4 TV guided AS rockets hanging off the pylons 12 sqdn all the way. 😂
30 feet is to high for the buccaneers
Gutted. But I guess Buccaneer just too stronk for America to handle
I would love to see Buccaneers and A-6 Intruders in DCS. I was surprised to see Etendards earlier.
@@MaxIsStrange1 i think he was just joking
@@IAMSEYMOURMUSIC Yeah, you’re right.
Congrats Cap! Get well soon, both of you.
Exciting video! I liked the different years and later years of Jets and Navy.
So excited..Ark Royal and Eagle in action!! There were differences in the jet blast defelctors on Eagle as compared to Ark Royal, and the phantoms had to much thrust or heat for the ones on Eagle. I think the ones on Ark were water-cooled where the ones on Eagle were older style and weren't. Those Phantoms look great in Fleet air arm colours by the way....
Edit. Seacat was the first iperational missile of its type in the world.... and SHOCKINGLY..... STILL IN SERVICE 😂😂
Amazing thanks!
@@grimreapers I think the point about the Seacat is valid. It means the US ships should not have had SM2's. The Sea Wolf was far superior and is still in use today (not by UK) and is a standard for SM2. IN fact the missile wasn't the issue it was the targeting system onboard ship. Those old targeting systems could only engage one target at a time. Hence the need for lots of support ships to a carrier.
It's a shame there is no Buccaneer in this game platform.
I've never seen so many missiles miss 🤣 the Seacat is AWFUL
Sorry to hear GR mini-Cap has been poorly. Growing up fast!
God man, A4's and F4's are some of the best looking fighters ever.
Controversial opinion: I really like the visual aesthetics of A-6 Intruders, A-7 Corsair IIs, and S-3 Vikings. What do you think about the looks of those aircraft?
This was fun to watch :)
Great video!
Amazingly hilarious thought... I want to see a "Bags only" dogfight. No guns, No missles, you have to kill using only droptanks. I dare ya. Obviously, we'd have to watch in fast forward to keep from falling asleep but what a skill to have!
I have to say, I love this series. That is all.
Been a fan for a short time, only about 3 months but I’m in love with this type of content! Would love to see some older scenarios (40’s-50’s) nothing beats a gunfight! Cheers and hope you and the baby are feeling better!
You found a great channel, been here for years myself 😊
Shame we dont have a Buccaneer , amazing aircraft :)
Hopefully CH could make it based on another aircraft
Hi Cap! An idea for a fun mission for you. You guys used to run the gauntlet against SAMs and AAA in that valley. Seeing those seacats today, why not set up a line of ships of different eras/loadouts and try to fly low/high whatever through them? It might be hilarious, esp the seacat section. Ends with SM3?
Time warp.....Well doneboys!....these older school carrier battles are the best..👉🏻....i really enjoyed this one!
Been watching since 2019 and I can't remember having this much of a laugh ever, those sea cats...sorry, sea dogs are actually fun! :))
Offering gold to sea cats didn't work for obvious reasons, should've offered sea catnip instead
@@BoraHorzaGobuchulor SeaMice 😂
when the king needed his champion most, he vanished.
Exciting video!
Royal Navy carriers in the 1970's operated the excellent Blackburn Buccaneer as their strike aircraft.
HMS Ark Royal carried 12 Phantoms, 14 Buccaneers and 4 AEW Gannets. HMS Eagle could, easily, have been updated to do the same.
@@99IronDukethe US carriers carried UK technology such as optical landing, angled deck , Radar, Armoured deck , steam catapult etc
Cap is having issues maintaining his stiff upper lip. 😂 I didn't know his voice had so many octaves!
The sea cats were command guided with a camera, not homing. The RN had sea slug too, a 2 tonne beam riding missile for intercepting bombers. It was on the county class destroyers.
Can we see a 60s uk/us vs soviet Union battle? I’d love to see some TSR2s in action as well.
Neither side would have internal guns. The K model had better acceleration but they had a lower top speed. The K model also had a slightly better radar than the B and it could carry the SkyFlash which was better than the early Sparrows.
i think what really helped US was the early F-4s running out of missiles and going guns. its already hard for the Brits to get a good missile shot, now they have yanks on their tails gunning them with seemingly 0 friendly fire on the blue side.
I always find calling all Americans “Yanks” slightly confusing because the only meaning of the word that comes to mind at first is “people from Northeastern states” so I have to remind myself that it’s not just about them xd
Does the word also have that meaning outside the US or does it just mean “Americans”?
That was good. I too much prefer the older tech, rather than super missiles, that should probably should be called "hitilles". Totally different skill-set needed. And, for my money, much more fun when you're both in a telephone-box!
note: the only Perry class FFGs that ever had SM2 are the RAN Adelaide class which got fitted in early 2000s during a refit...only 2 are left now in service with Chilean Navy
Not sure why they have SM-2 in DCS then?
@@grimreapers its just an error...Perry's could only fire SM1 (without upgrades to firecontrol radars,etc) RAN's Adelaide class Perry's got a significant upgrade in early 2000s after our Perth class DDGs (a subclass of Charles F Adams class) retired. The 4 youngest ships HMAS's Sydney, Melbourne, Darwin, and Newcastle got systems upgrades and weapons upgrades with SM2 and an 8 cell mk41 short length VLS forward of the mk13 with 32 ESSM's. HMAS Melbourne and Newcastle have been sold off to the Chilean Navy
@@grimreapers probably standardised/simplified missile programing for USN assets SM1MR is fairly short range(40nm) while SM2MR is 90ish. SM2ER(RIM67B blockII to block III) used by the cruisers with the older mk10 launchers that had the NTU update had a range of up to 120nm and the block IV used in VLS up to 200nm.
Great Fun!
“I thought Britain was going to win”. I seem to remember 2 wars where the Brits thought the same. 😝
BS. The war of 1812 was not a US victory in any way shape or form.
Get well soon Cap!
SuperCap used Phantom Attack!
It's not very effective...
YES THIS IS WHAT IVE WANTED FOR SO LONG. I always thought the 80s brit carrier group was just worse than the 70s one.
I have been lucky enough to see A4's recently flying over my village in Norfolk, they've been acting as an aggressor sqdn during a big exercise involving nations from all over Europe, just wondering if they were the old Kiwi ones sold to a private military contractor 😊
Draken Europe
@@CAL1MBODraken??
You might have had a better outcome by putting wings on 1960-70s Cadillac Coupe Deville's lol
Yes, that Was fun!
Great entertaining video Cap! Better luck next time. USA for the win! 🇺🇸
On these twin engined planes is it possible to utilise differential thrust for a better turn rate?
In between the AIM-9B and the AIM-9L the USAF and the USN/USMC went separate ways. USAF AIM-9 progression went: AIM-9B, AIM-9E, AIM-9E-2, AIM-9J, then AIM-9L. USN/USMC AIM-9 progression went: AIM-9B, AIM-9D, AIM-9G, AIM-9H, then AIM-9L. IIRC RN went from AIM-9B to AIM-9G then upgraded to AIM-9L just before the Falklands war. Also the USN Phantom's usually did not carry gun pods even though they were cleared to do so and the UK RN Phantom's never carried gun pods until they were transferred to the RAF.
Thanks. That's not confusing at all.
A Phabulous Phantom Phurball!
An interesting Idea: French Navy F-8(if the game have F-8s) vs Royal Navy F-4.
I would like to see the 1960s f8s instead of the a4 vs the Royal navy.
Unfortunately we don’t have the F-8 😕
Waiting for F-8 to be added to game.
Ya this looks good!
Can anyone tell me where they got the Royal Navy F-4 Skins? I can't find them anywhere on the ED User Files Skins.
I got them from the VSN mod site. Just google it,.
@@grimreapers Ok. I will check that out tonight. Thank you.
Out of curiosity, is there anyway you can get famous canceled projects, for example the xb70 or the x47 in the game? If so, is there a way you can put them in a simulation of three types; when they were brand new (like the xb70 in the 70s), then 20 years later, then modern day. We can see if the call to cancel the program was the right decision and would it be relevant in the modern day.
Finally, in naval battles why not model submarines? Even if you don’t have them in the game couldn’t you simulate the missiles, especially when doing fleets and strike groups there is at least one sub?
Having just watched this video I wondered whether IR missiles (sidewinder etc) can be fitted on planes back to front and used when being chased by an opponent as the seeker would be pointing rearward and catch the pursuer by surprise?
Would need rear facing sensors to cue the missiles too then
Big problem is these old missiles can only track an aircraft from behind, can;t fire against head-on aircraft that was following.
The Phantoms were, in the early types, an interceptor that was forced into being an ill-suited dogfighter. That they were successful at all was more about the pilots skill and drive over their mounts. The first "combat" aircraft I remember seeing as a kid was the RF-4s at Gowen Field in Boise, later they moved to the F-4G wild weasel/SEAD.
1970's USAF with F15 and F111 vs 1970's USN carrier group with F14's
Great video! Only 2 A4s lost thanks to Poosh being Poosh!
Sahweeeet Cold War What If....mayhem !
I see you using A4s frequently, but not A6s or A7s. Are those available in game, or are you using A4s to represent all attack aircraft from that era?
No A6 or A7. A6 should be coming as an AI asset soon.(but 80s type not 60s or 70s) A7 full fidelity modules is well on its way and with luck will be released sometime next year, it too will be 80s model, not 60 or 70s) and many years into the future. We'll get a full fidelity A6.
You should try F-14s versus F-4s to show which one was the better carrier born fighter.
I’d love to see it as well but I’m pretty sure the F-14s would mop the floor with the F-4s because the former have a more powerful radar and AIM-54 Phoenix missiles which have a WAY longer range than the F-4’s Sparrows (and the Phoenix is an ARH FOX-3 missile while the Sparrow is SARH guided FOX-1). Also, the F-14s are way more maneuverable than the F-4 so even dogfights would be pretty one-sided.
Speaking of American on American fighter plane action, any chance of doing the mustang vs corsair battle during the war between Honduras and El Salvador😁🙏
A CVA-01 would be fun. HS P.1154 plus Bucc S.2 and an escort of Type 82 and Leander with Sea Wolf (as it should have been). Probably way too hard to implement paper designs though.
Sea Cat wasn't too bad for what it was though, first point defence shipboard SAM in the world intended as a 1:1 for Bofors. Something like the Rose-Forgrove 4 barrel or the Vickers twin barrel Sea Wolf should really have replaced Sea Cat on every ship by the 70s though, but money as ever is the issue. Exact reason why we were stuck with WW2 era carriers until now (but also stupid decisions in regards to the carriers chosen to be modernised)
Hi Cap, given the history of the Royal Navy you outlined in this video, if might be interesting to do a What If scenario of the Argentine Air Force attacking the Falklands, with Ark Royal flying Phantoms instead of Harriers.
I saw the disclaimer and got excited that we might actually win something 🤣
We did in practice, but it wasn't to be when camera was rolling :(
@@grimreapers I saw video today on the tornado involvement in gulf war 1 and bombing IAD sites and runways. Any chance of some tornado action on the channel?
Collusus-class, which was a smaller one…. Of course!😀
Please do 2000s vs 2020s Royal Navy groups
Spag bol , garlic bread beer and Capt!
oof well jealous.
Hope to see modern 2025 naval battle between Chinese CG and Russian CG. Thank you, Cap!
Hi cap. The FG.1 was tested on The R05 Eagle, but the only who receive the modernization for practical operations was the Ark. even was the R05 was in better shape than the R09. The FG.1 was a F-4J with RR Spey, long nose landing gear (to take off form the short decks) and folding nose to fix in the lift. Not internal gun ( No naval F-4 had internal gun (F-4B /J and then S (upgraded J) / N (upgrade B). Only with internal was the F-4E /F)
Thanks!
Cap, could I make a suggestion of a new scene for you to try, do a 617Sqdn Dambusters raid on the 3 Dams they went for but not with Lancs, do it with a B1 & B2 and the B21 with the AGM-130 missile or would that be tooooo easy.
OK
Have you done these 60/70s fighters against warbirds? Say Forrestal vs. Kido Butai?
Not yet.
I'd like to see a early 1960's USN/USMC vs USAF, maybe B-52s and F-105s trying to attack a CVBG, while F-4s and A-4s defend and counter-attack the airfield.
The Redcoats loose once again. lol
We'll be back...
11:52 While there were to be five squadrons of Phantoms, only four were to be carried based. The fifth would have been the training squadron. Four carriers were proposed. HMS Ark Royal, HMS Eagle, and two of the CVA-01 class ships that were due to be built, likely to be named HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Duke of Edinburgh. The other carriers that the RN had at the time, HMS Hermes, HMS Victorious and HMS Centaur were all too small to accommodate a Phantom squadron and a Buccaneer squadron.
Baby, so no sleep? Sounds like a Cap problem. Do a thing. Carry on. That is all. 😊
The RN F-4s never carried guns. The RAF could carry a gun pod, but the RN didn't deem them necessary.
The UK’s defense department simply estimated that the cost in money and manpower for two strike carriers was beyond the UK’s ability. Ironically, Eagle was in better shape than Ark Royal, but AR was converted first so they went with that.
34:40 Thrillingly disappointing SAM🤣🤣 Insult to injury at 36:40 The SeaKittens were comical.
is the DCS F4 gonna be the Nam one?
Think so.
The difference between your offline tests and your broadcasted video is…. a Simba.
As a substitute for the U.K. why did you not use the Hermes 1969 mod? It’s slightly larger than the carrier you used.
dang, forgot about Hermes :(
@@grimreapers maybe next time you run a U.K. 1960/70 type scenario
Bird...how tf did you spin it like a top? 🤣
Just got that magic touch lol
Alt Title: Merges & Misses 😆😆😆
Can the Heatblur F4 start from a Carrier?
No we're getting the F4E version which is not a naval model
:( @@TheCleon
Aww. No Buccaneers . ☹️
EDIT : The 70's 'crunch' was the inevitable result of a 20yr dalliance with socialism !
Is that the same Forrestal that had the big fire
Yup
I'm just here to lay down the controversial comment. "The results should have been different and I don't have any reason why beyond I just didn't like it!!!!".
Carry on.
There's a reason the F-4 carried so many missiles...
lol yes
Hey Cap, if you need some help with research, I could lend a hand from time to time (whenever life permits).
Thanks
@@grimreapers What would be the best way to contact you (if you want my help, of course)?
I may be wrong but the regular Aim-9P is essentially the same as an Aim-9J, the P3 and P5 were significantly better though.
EDIT: It gets quite murky but the very first AIM-9Ps were AIM-9J-1 renamed. Available mid-70s and likely close to an AIM-9G so I doubt this was an egregious error, and actually may simulate the G better than a stock J
Admiral189 has alot of cold war Era ships. They're mostly good quality, and fairly accurate. Would make this more accurate
I tried them but couldn't get SAMs to fire so gave up.
I love these smoky Greta birds lol there should be a to Greta missions only
Mig-29 and Phantom?
@@grimreapers yes absolutely 💯
As a Canadian, I'm having a hard time choosing sides.