As someone who is high functioning and mildly on the spectrum I very much relate to the way you compartmentalise rhythmic concepts and especially love how they then get expressed through streams of consciousness when playing - and thats the real goal of learning to play this ultimately - its not clunky thought - it has to get to the point of just flowing through. Never heard it expressed like that before - thank you - that (really ) helps
can you make a video about the way you use the metronome? it sounds interesting and your explanation on why use it this way is great, but I'm having a real hard time figuring it out... thanks for the lessons!
Its just on 8th note off beats and the loud note is on the & of 4 every 2 bars. The reason he does (and everyone should) is because it forces you to lead the time (like in real life situations) instead of having a downbeat given to you nice and easy. Basically, It allows for greater time keeping, plus its really fun and keeps things interesting. Another way to improve your time is to have the metronome really slow, like 20-50 bpm max. That also forces you to keep time. Combining these two methods is another great thing. For example have the metronome at 30 bpm and click on the and of 4. You can come up with your own different beats to put it on, but thats the idea.
yeah man…Sorry I don't get it. I don't hear any swing on that. Also this approach IMHO is wayyyy to over thought. What you are referring to is a 3 bar cycle. That is played over the time.
I'm working through John Riley's book "The Art of Bop Drumming", which consists (so far) in playing patterns against the standard jazz ride cymbal. You suggested here that this is not necessarily the best approach (or at least, that's what I took you to say). Do you think it is necessary to have mastered this ability to play anything against a straight ride pattern before moving on to different ways to mix things up? Thanks
I did not get any of this and I have been a serious drummer for 30 years. I thought. I understand the Pareto principle though. I guess I will have to settle with the fact that 20% of my drumming is 80% of all that's ever needed.
I've played for 40 years and I didn't get any of this either. This fellow is a good player, I've watched a few of his videos, but I never understand a thing he's talking about.
@@FawleyJude Just because he is playing in mid tempo thinking for uptempo without any sense of swing . Add a double time ride, HH and keep the same tempo he is plating on snare, bass and you'll see it works and swinging great
The mass of confused commenters on this video is amazing. XD I think people miss the implied skill level (you know, how to REALLY play uptempo jazz as opposed to how to BS uptempo jazz or GET STARTED, etc), but this is certainly a more advanced video. The lack of beat breakdowns throughout the entire 14 minutes is a pretty big clue that there are some fundamental assumptions being made... Also, the setup on the metronome is some kind of evil f***ing genius! Starting as a rock drummer, I've always been heavy on the downs, and its become a dirt nasty habit when playing jazz. I'm pumped to start implementing all of this! Thanks for the rad video!
I REALLY want to like this and study it, but there's something up with the audio. The click track from the phone is slightly ahead of what you're playing. Anybody else experiencing this?
No audio sync issues;) The metronome is clicking on the 8th note offbeats. I've since made efforts to be more explicit about exactly where the metronome is clicking before I start to play!
Adam Lewin Hey Adam playing with quarters you can get away with a lot of jinkiness and unevenness in your feel and still lock up. There might be a "push-pull" in your 8ths or 16ths, but a metronome on quarters won't make you aware of it. Second reason is any metronome placement that's not on a downbeat forces you to "lead" rather than follow. You're guessing where the time is, and the metronome is confirming or denying your guess, which is really the function it should be serving:)
This guy studied with John Riley ? Must’ve skipped a lot of lessons. Did he actually play an uptempo ride pattern in this video? I didn’t see him play fast. What’s that nonsense he’s spouting about Kenny Clarke?
I think the click is the ‘e’ and ‘a’ of a 16th note subdivision with the strong 1 as the last ‘a’ of a four-bar pattern. Seems weird to play straight for uptempo swing but that’s what it sounds like. If you hear it as the 3 and 6 of sextuplets it doesn’t really lock in with what he’s playing. Feel free to abuse me for my opinion.
The old trick of playing 'in-between' the metronome - the click is easier to hear when you play on the off beat to it and it helps build the drummer's natural sense of time - anyway I heard of that
Thanks for the lesson. The down beat of your metronome doesn't relate to the beat so I take the hi-hat as two and four and try to figure it out from there. Any chance you have these exercises transcribed anywhere?
if the snare or bass drum is playing a counter rhythm to the ride cymbal, its hard to not mirror that rhythm on the ride in a swing beat, and the hat claps foot can start getting errors. If the bass drum part is fairly dense with 16th/32 notes then its even harder once more and takes many many years to even begin to get the basic feel because you have to have excellant independance all round and good time-keeping again on all 4 limbs. peter erkstine is great at this
Greetings! My name is keith ..nice to meet you. Anyway I have been checking out a couple of your lessons. They do make you better. I am going to spread the news. Hit me up sometime bro. You are a unique teacher with a great approach to drumming. Keep it up! Cheers!
It's like limit theory, asymptotic (zeno's paradox?) lol is 80/20 the ratio of people who get these scientific references? :) Just messing, and thanks a ton for posting this video
Believe it or not, most people who subscribe to me *do* get the reference, and if you're thinking I've niched down too much and I should start making Steven Adler or Matt Sorum videos, you're not alone:P
@@8020drummer :) Revisiting the uptempo jazz swing vids. I think I just liked that you said asymptotic, haha - and again really great video, getting more out of it even now
I imagine John would be flattered to read this! Just be patient, work hard! He says himself the only prerequisite to becoming great at the drums is the ability to practice hard and practice productively:)
I'm diggin on your jazz groove here. but I cannot follow your drum clicker. where is the one? That click sound ruins your exceptional groove. Is there some other way to keep time. Maybe change the sound to a clave or a deep wooden bell ?
Hey Tom thanks for the kind words. Most of the underlying principles of what I'm doing with the four limbs come from this video - www.the8020drummer.com/jazz-part-one/ - which includes downloadable transcriptions for free. Hope it helps!
It sort of sounds like you're playing the rhythm on the ride straight, like an eighth note followed by two sixteenth notes. If that's the case, how is it being swung?
Hey Ethan you're correct that the ride rhythm is straight. It's a stylistic decision, but at this tempo a lot of drummers straighten out the ride pattern. (Listen to any mid-'60s Miles Davis record with Tony Williams, or Max Roach with Clifford Brown.) Sometimes it's hip to maintain the swing even when the tempo is a little "up", like Rodney Green playing Airegin with Kurt Roesnwinkel and Peter Bernstein, but in this lesson I'm interpreting the ride pattern as straight. If you're interested in the swing 8th feel, I have a video called How to (Really) Play Jazz Part 1, in which I get into that more:)
Hey Joey for this video I was playing my practice roommate Eric's drums. He's since taken them out of the room, and I don't remember the brand but I'll ask him. I know they're portable - with shells that open up.
John Riley certainly is one of the most underrated drummers EVER!!! Hands down John's musical language is soooo advanced (yet musical at the same time!) that almost no one touches him except guys like Jojo Mayer & Steve Smith. As far as the lesson I hate to say but I didn't really get any information as to how to play fast tempi. I understand if you're not going to go into the mechanical aspect of playing b/c that's strictly technique based but besides you playing some patterns and phrases there wasn't any insight in the vid about up-tempo playing imo.
frederic1000001 Totally forgot to reply to this. They're 22" constanti ride and 14" constanti hats. My practice roomie likes gear and has money to burn:P
Hey Tom it's an iPhone app called Tempo. Your comment came in right before I was headed off to bed and I had my inbox open:) Anyway, you can get it on the app store, and I think it's 1.99, though don't quote me...
hey drummer boi ,if you read the comments concerning that odd clicker you're using there needs to be another explanation about 'why' and 'how ' it's being used the way you're using it. I still don't see the point in it . Others are just as confused as to why. I can't learn a groove if the counting feels off. Is this your own way of counting that you made up? It's just frustrating.
It's called microtime, long story short the metronome is on the off-beats, which forces you to keep time very accurately, as you can't rely on the metronome to tell you where the beat is.
As someone who is high functioning and mildly on the spectrum I very much relate to the way you compartmentalise rhythmic concepts and especially love how they then get expressed through streams of consciousness when playing - and thats the real goal of learning to play this ultimately - its not clunky thought - it has to get to the point of just flowing through. Never heard it expressed like that before - thank you - that (really ) helps
can you make a video about the way you use the metronome?
it sounds interesting and your explanation on why use it this way is great, but I'm having a real hard time figuring it out...
thanks for the lessons!
Its just on 8th note off beats and the loud note is on the & of 4 every 2 bars. The reason he does (and everyone should) is because it forces you to lead the time (like in real life situations) instead of having a downbeat given to you nice and easy. Basically, It allows for greater time keeping, plus its really fun and keeps things interesting. Another way to improve your time is to have the metronome really slow, like 20-50 bpm max. That also forces you to keep time. Combining these two methods is another great thing. For example have the metronome at 30 bpm and click on the and of 4. You can come up with your own different beats to put it on, but thats the idea.
The Sheldon Cooper of drumming and drum education! Great vid!
Ha! Aaaaaand I'm off to google Sheldon Cooper...
Aaaaaaaaah That Dude. I get it. Yessir brotha gotta own the nerdiness!
@@8020drummer bazinga!
your Video education is great. I Love it. keep on going!
Can you expand on that Kenny Clarke thing you mentioned in the intro?
"Let's hemiolize it!"
yeah man…Sorry I don't get it. I don't hear any swing on that. Also this approach IMHO is wayyyy to over thought. What you are referring to is a 3 bar cycle. That is played over the time.
I'm working through John Riley's book "The Art of Bop Drumming", which consists (so far) in playing patterns against the standard jazz ride cymbal. You suggested here that this is not necessarily the best approach (or at least, that's what I took you to say). Do you think it is necessary to have mastered this ability to play anything against a straight ride pattern before moving on to different ways to mix things up? Thanks
I did not get any of this and I have been a serious drummer for 30 years. I thought. I understand the Pareto principle though. I guess I will have to settle with the fact that 20% of my drumming is 80% of all that's ever needed.
I've played for 40 years and I didn't get any of this either. This fellow is a good player, I've watched a few of his videos, but I never understand a thing he's talking about.
@@FawleyJude Just because he is playing in mid tempo thinking for uptempo without any sense of swing . Add a double time ride, HH and keep the same tempo he is plating on snare, bass and you'll see it works and swinging great
Good stuff man........thanks!!!
The mass of confused commenters on this video is amazing. XD I think people miss the implied skill level (you know, how to REALLY play uptempo jazz as opposed to how to BS uptempo jazz or GET STARTED, etc), but this is certainly a more advanced video. The lack of beat breakdowns throughout the entire 14 minutes is a pretty big clue that there are some fundamental assumptions being made... Also, the setup on the metronome is some kind of evil f***ing genius! Starting as a rock drummer, I've always been heavy on the downs, and its become a dirt nasty habit when playing jazz. I'm pumped to start implementing all of this! Thanks for the rad video!
I REALLY want to like this and study it, but there's something up with the audio. The click track from the phone is slightly ahead of what you're playing. Anybody else experiencing this?
No audio sync issues;) The metronome is clicking on the 8th note offbeats. I've since made efforts to be more explicit about exactly where the metronome is clicking before I start to play!
The 80/20 Drummer Out of interest, how come you don't use a quarter note on the metronome? Why the offbeat 8th notes?
Adam Lewin Hey Adam playing with quarters you can get away with a lot of jinkiness and unevenness in your feel and still lock up. There might be a "push-pull" in your 8ths or 16ths, but a metronome on quarters won't make you aware of it. Second reason is any metronome placement that's not on a downbeat forces you to "lead" rather than follow. You're guessing where the time is, and the metronome is confirming or denying your guess, which is really the function it should be serving:)
The 80/20 Drummer i agree with the offbeat, but better use 4th than 8th. It sounds very weird in the video... too much stress ;-)
The metronome is more musical this way... Simply brilliant!
This guy studied with John Riley ? Must’ve skipped a lot of lessons. Did he actually play an uptempo ride pattern in this video? I didn’t see him play fast. What’s that nonsense he’s spouting about Kenny Clarke?
I think the click is the ‘e’ and ‘a’ of a 16th note subdivision with the strong 1 as the last ‘a’ of a four-bar pattern.
Seems weird to play straight for uptempo swing but that’s what it sounds like. If you hear it as the 3 and 6 of sextuplets it doesn’t really lock in with what he’s playing.
Feel free to abuse me for my opinion.
You're kind of staring into my soul there for a little bit I feel. Fuck. Great video though...
Great feel sound groove with complicated phrasing.. Thanks for the info!
Just play along to Gran Turismo 2.
The old trick of playing 'in-between' the metronome - the click is easier to hear when you play on the off beat to it and it helps build the drummer's natural sense of time - anyway I heard of that
i bought some of your stuff recently and i will definetely take some more, i love your approach on teaching im constantly laughing lol
Finally someone who talks mostly with his drums to explain everything, so great
OK best didactic jazz drumming video i ever seen, thank you... it gives me so much :3
Thanks dude! I think my teaching has improved since I recorded this (as the 7 dislikes demonstrate), but I appreciate the kind words!
Hey great videos...¡¡¡, I forget the video where you are laying rise and shine of robert glasper, where is it??
ruclips.net/video/nuy66z9-C7U/видео.html :)
Someone, please explain what he’s doing with the metronome.
Thanks for the lesson. The down beat of your metronome doesn't relate to the beat so I take the hi-hat as two and four and try to figure it out from there. Any chance you have these exercises transcribed anywhere?
+John Rule goo.gl/53HoZC is this what you are playing at 11:54?
Best jazz drum lessons on the web! But I have to ask you - Do you have bodies buried in your basement?
This is great. I'm taking lessons with Riley right now.
I like drums. 😄
if the snare or bass drum is playing a counter rhythm to the ride cymbal, its hard to not mirror that rhythm on the ride in a swing beat, and the hat claps foot can start getting errors. If the bass drum part is fairly dense with 16th/32 notes then its even harder once more and takes many many years to even begin to get the basic feel because you have to have excellant independance all round and good time-keeping again on all 4 limbs. peter erkstine is great at this
Greetings! My name is keith ..nice to meet you. Anyway I have been checking out a couple of your lessons. They do make you better. I am going to spread the news. Hit me up sometime bro. You are a unique teacher with a great approach to drumming. Keep it up! Cheers!
All good but the voice mic is busting my eardrums. I’m constantly increasing volume on your playing and decreasing when your speaking .
Damn I thought this was "Fun With Flags"
Only if Will Wheaton and Amy were there
he isnt playing on tha one...thats why it sounds off forget the one for time being...play on the (ands)
It's like limit theory, asymptotic (zeno's paradox?) lol is 80/20 the ratio of people who get these scientific references? :) Just messing, and thanks a ton for posting this video
Believe it or not, most people who subscribe to me *do* get the reference, and if you're thinking I've niched down too much and I should start making Steven Adler or Matt Sorum videos, you're not alone:P
@@8020drummer :) Revisiting the uptempo jazz swing vids. I think I just liked that you said asymptotic, haha - and again really great video, getting more out of it even now
I like that picture in the background--the black and white one with the eyeballs? Sorry, I'm an artist as well as an aspiring drummer!
DrummerGrrrl Nice. One hash mark in the "keep the existing background" column. I was planning to invest in some photo studio backdrops asap:P
Nice feel! So how are you counting these off against the metronome?
You're Sheldon
What's the looping exercise?
John Riley! John Riley! Oh!!!! Of course underated! He is the teacher I want but I'm far...
I imagine John would be flattered to read this! Just be patient, work hard! He says himself the only prerequisite to becoming great at the drums is the ability to practice hard and practice productively:)
love it..most entertaining dude on yt...broken jazz y'all.
I'm diggin on your jazz groove here. but I cannot follow your drum clicker. where is the one? That click sound ruins your exceptional groove. Is there some other way to keep time. Maybe change the sound to a clave or a deep wooden bell ?
+Eleni Eliades He's using the click as the downbeat, and playing on the upbeat. So he's playing on the &'s.
+Noah Sherwin other way around I thought?
This is fantastic. Any transcriptions of some of the exercises would be super helpful. Thank you for the lesson.
Hey Tom thanks for the kind words. Most of the underlying principles of what I'm doing with the four limbs come from this video - www.the8020drummer.com/jazz-part-one/ - which includes downloadable transcriptions for free. Hope it helps!
It sort of sounds like you're playing the rhythm on the ride straight, like an eighth note followed by two sixteenth notes. If that's the case, how is it being swung?
Hey Ethan you're correct that the ride rhythm is straight. It's a stylistic decision, but at this tempo a lot of drummers straighten out the ride pattern. (Listen to any mid-'60s Miles Davis record with Tony Williams, or Max Roach with Clifford Brown.) Sometimes it's hip to maintain the swing even when the tempo is a little "up", like Rodney Green playing Airegin with Kurt Roesnwinkel and Peter Bernstein, but in this lesson I'm interpreting the ride pattern as straight. If you're interested in the swing 8th feel, I have a video called How to (Really) Play Jazz Part 1, in which I get into that more:)
That's very helpful to know! I'm going to pass that along to the drummer in my school jazz band.
And people wonder why Jazz is such an obscure art form. I have no idea what he is trying to teach with this video.
I like your drumming! Subtly)
I'm just curious if you could tell us the specs of your drums. I would love to buy what your playing.
Hey Joey for this video I was playing my practice roommate Eric's drums. He's since taken them out of the room, and I don't remember the brand but I'll ask him. I know they're portable - with shells that open up.
thanks!
Dude, these videos keep me and my buddy inspired as we try and plough through our 4th year of jazzstudies in the westcoast of canada. Much respect!
Capilano jazz? :P
no, not even. not that it matters, even the best schools in canada (mcgill, humber) are garbage.
7:47 :-) oh sh_t now is the time to solloing...
one of the best advanced lessons i find on youtube, congratulation!
why don't you put any swing in your ride pattern!?
Thanks !!! Good job.
dude is in his pijamas
boss video
beautiful grooves
4:41 the face lol
John Riley certainly is one of the most underrated drummers EVER!!! Hands down John's musical language is soooo advanced (yet musical at the same time!) that almost no one touches him except guys like Jojo Mayer & Steve Smith. As far as the lesson I hate to say but I didn't really get any information as to how to play fast tempi. I understand if you're not going to go into the mechanical aspect of playing b/c that's strictly technique based but besides you playing some patterns and phrases there wasn't any insight in the vid about up-tempo playing imo.
Yea, Riley was great in Talladega Nights, and Step Brothers ! See what I did there?
killer
"we saw what u did there"
May I ask you what are these cymbals, and specially the marvellous one in the middle ?
Ha! They're actually not mine - they belong to the owner of the kit I was using. I'll have a look today and let you know.
The 80/20 Drummer Thank you, it sounds really fantastic.
frederic1000001 Totally forgot to reply to this. They're 22" constanti ride and 14" constanti hats. My practice roomie likes gear and has money to burn:P
The 80/20 Drummer Thank you Nate!
nice hi hat : )
Awesome Awesome !!
Killer
What kind of metronome is he using?
Hey Tom it's an iPhone app called Tempo. Your comment came in right before I was headed off to bed and I had my inbox open:) Anyway, you can get it on the app store, and I think it's 1.99, though don't quote me...
Wow, thanks for getting back to me! I'll check it out. My friend Alejandro highly recommends your lessons, I can't wait to get started.
hey drummer boi ,if you read the comments concerning that odd clicker you're using there needs to be another explanation about 'why' and 'how ' it's being used the way you're using it. I still don't see the point in it . Others are just as confused as to why. I can't learn a groove if the counting feels off. Is this your own way of counting that you made up? It's just frustrating.
He's explained it before.
It's called microtime, long story short the metronome is on the off-beats, which forces you to keep time very accurately, as you can't rely on the metronome to tell you where the beat is.
Kyle McComb exactly. You can achieve waaaay better timing and faster if you can manage to do this with everything that you practice
There's a genius in this man, I see it.
Say what?
I need more of this.this is awesome