Doctor Who: Closing Time - REVIEW - Cybercember
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
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The awkward moment when the James Corden + Cyberman story feels like a better finale to Series 6 than the actual finale...
Cybercember Intro Video by Daniel Sherratt - / dansherratt01
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#DoctorWho #Cybercember
Thanks so much to 'Closing Time' director Steve Hughes for joining me for this video! You can find the full, 40+ minute interview with him on my Patreon. Thanks so much for the support! If you'd like to support me for free, you can hit that "like" button and leave ANY comment down below to appease the almighty algorithm!
Okay and here's a quote from the episode;
"Your dad's trying his best, you know. Yes, I know it's not his fault he doesn't have mammary glands. No, neither do I!"
Will you be doing a review on The Doctor Who/Star Trek TNG 8 Part Comic Crossover of Assimilation Squared?
It is a great story and it shows you how powerful The Whoniverse really is compared to The Star Trek Universe!
Given you've covered Big Finish twice now. Will you be covering the Cyberman series? It doesn't get bigger for the Cybermen than headlining their own series. Which is basically another story like Children of Earth IE what happens on Earth when The Doctor isn't around.
I think Steve Hughes shops at Last Exit To Nowhere.
Next year: Mastercember
Would have to do all of December at least for that to work
I hope that happens
The Masterthon sounds better.
He drives in a car and likes to be mean...
I would do that series myself, just to get that to happen! Mr TARDIS, message me😊
A simpler explanation for the Love Beats The Cybermen moment should have been about the low power levels meaning the conversion would be more difficult. That is a reasonable explanation and doesn't make the Cybermen look weak.
I mean this is the guy who overpowered a silent ship With his want to stay in one place
It's notable that he is strong willed he just wants to be mister average
Was just about to say that but checked to make sure I wasn't saying what already has been said.
I completely agree
Who else wanted to buy the remote control Cybermats back in 2011? To quote Trillbee in his original review: “Best selling Christmas toy 2011.”
I’ve got that
Amazing thing
Whilst the cybermen are presented as an afterthought, I think it makes up for that with the inclusion of the Cybermats who are given a brilliant update for the 21st century.
I always found the Classic Who Cybermats goofy but they're really well done here in the shop setting where they blend in as a toy and also as the primary mobile threat. Plus in context it works as these Cybermen are being stealthy and low key so infiltration is important.
Reminds me from "The Wheel In Space" the Cybermats were actualy basic better than the Cybermen in that story, to me is kinda similar here.
Great to see the Cybermats again.
It’s actually been stated, that the Mondasian Cybermen and The Cybus Cybermen eventually met, and merged together.-
Although all the Cybusmen died in the Void in 'Doomsday' or in Victorian London in 'The Next Doctor' making it very unlikly any were encountered by the main universes Cybermen.
Considering 'The Doctor Falls' the Mondasians evolve into those style Cybermen with no outside pressure, it's more likely that some Cyber Legion tech ended up in the past in Pete's World to give Lumic the push to create his own versions.
Edit: I think it's probable the 'Pandorica' Legion Cybermen are the most likely considering the Cracks in Time. Falling into a parallel universe is probably possible with the Cracks.
I always thought this once the newest Cybermen design was introduced. I wish they had actually shown this in an episode though. Much like a lot of Dalek stuff since Davis left, nothing is really explained and they just turn up for random adventures.
@@darkwoods1954I mean there has been a standing dalek empire Since victory of the daleks
For the longest time, "Closing Time" was an afterthought for me. This review and Director interview have given me a new insight on it, much appreciated
‘Closing Time’ is an episode I generally feel is an underrated gem. Is it the best Cyberman story? No but the episode’s focus, and the theme of death, is really well done with one of Matt Smith’s best performances as The Doctor in my opinion. The only issue with the episode, aside from the sidelining of the Cybermen, is I feel Craig should have been converted to really make The Doctor’s concerns come full circle.
The worst thing is how the Cybermen are defeated. It’s really just a ‘The power of Love wins’ cliche.
That's a major problem with nWho in general. To use Moffat's own creation as a metaphor nWho is a headless monk, its cut its logic and sense out in favour of what feels right. Kind of insulting to a show based entirely on encouraging scientific thinking.
Bingo. It was shit boring as well.
@@TwoOnions275 Its sad that so many of the nWho writers seem to think the only way to write for it is to write soaps with aliens in them. Especially when the likes of Gary Russel wrote some of the most inventive surreal and beautifully intricate stories for the Classic Doctors in the Wilderness Years and to this day for Big Finish. Its just fortunate that nobody gave Gattis that memo, every time his name shows up on the credits I know I'm basically getting Proper Who with a bare minimum of nWho crap that if it exists at all was clearly edited in by RTD or Moffat.
Cybermen replaces body parts except head with cybernetic parts, this episode is somewhat else, like becoming cybermen is just putting on cybermen suit...
@@dyzery2907 well in the originals they were aalways assimilated, that’s Cybus-Men
It’s episodes like this is why Matt Smith is my favourite Doctor. How I miss him so.
That's interesting. I feel exactly the opposite. I thought he was great in his first series, and then he became all spinning and meaningless banter. He lost the subdued awkwardness and became too big and overblown. Peter Capaldi did the same after his first series too, although I understand it was requested of him because production thought his grumpiness may have been responsible for falling ratings
I'm excited to see the Capaldi episode with the retro Cybermen. That episode freaked me the fuck out.
My headcanon is that the Cybermen’s limited resources, mixed with the fact that they’re expecting a compatible Cyber-Controller can kinda waive away the “defeated by love” ending.
My head cannon is that Craig is just that strong-willed. That's also how he defeated the silent ship
Not every strong-willed person has gotten become a companion or doctor type character. Some people want to settle down half families
@@plantainsame2049 Strong-will cannot defeat cybernetic surgery, that's why everyone hates the ending.
@@vishaansingh1019 It was not surgery, though it was the first step in the surgery. All he had was metal put over him no actual surgery
And again this guy Literally has will That can rival the doctor
Something that's always bothered me in media is the concept of "here's a small creature no larger than a rat, somehow, you cannot lift it more than inches away from your face" like, it's not got thrusters, it's scuttling around on the ground, either with legs or wheels, it has nothing to be pushing against to be in your face... just hold it up in the air at a distance.
Screen writers, if you want to have something tiny be threatening when held, it needs some way to propel itself when it's being held, the monster book in Harry Potter made sense because it's magic, we've previously seen books fly around in the Harry Potter series (though I am still minorly bothered by that one due to the fact that, when Harry drops the book, it moves around on the ground, indicating this one doesn't fly, either by choice or by inability, either way this irritates me that it is shown not flying and yet it still is able to be a threat when held)
I did get a thrill from this being set in Colchester (the town I went to 6th form in) but boy was it obvious that that wasn’t Colchester to anyone that knows the town 😁
This was technically the first piece of watching Doctor Who as I was an 8 year old who came across it at random during the scene where the Doctor and Craig got teleported to the Cyber ship.
Another Simpsons reference for you:
"And the secret ingredient is... LOVE?!... who's been screwing with this thing?!"
The cybermat in closing time is the scariest one out of them all and the most violent as the one seen in Tomb of the Cybermen weren’t exactly scary and didn’t really attack victims just pounced on a sleeping victim. The cybermats in Revenge of the Cybermen were violent but not as aggressive as in closing time.
IT MAKES ONE MAN WEEP
ANOTHER MAN SING
There you go, that's this episode summed up
I never used to like this one, even though Eleven is my favourite. I actually gave it a second go yesterday knowing the review today and ended up liking it a lot more. It's REALLY funny (the bit where the Doctor gives exposition to Val who just goes along with it is objectively brilliant), the way it presents many of the season's themes of the Doctor's morality and facing the end is well done through the dialogue and the presence of the Cybermats and the low key conversion plot by the Cyberman actually works especially in the context of "one last adventure". The "love defeats everything" ending still doesn't quite work but you know what, I didn't particularly care. I think watching it in isolation from The God Complex, my favourite story ever, really helped. It could've been better, but not exactly the worst, and in terms of Cybermen stories I'd watch this over Revenge, Silver Nemesis or Death in Heaven.
Really great interview with Steve Hughes! Again, I really appreciate how you're using this run of videos to expand the possibilities of what your channel can do. Here's hoping that continues regardless of what you do next.
That's amazing that you managed to get an interview with the episode's director!
22:07 -boy. They shot a little boy. Classic Daisy.
Let's see here... Well if we're going on Big Finish and the 8th Doctor I'm gonna guess that next review is Sword of Orion.
Wow! This is the best review yet! Keep it up William! This episode was one of the firsts that I saw and is a great episode
Me: How does one get near 40 mins quality content out of Closing Time?
Trilbee: Hold my hat
Ain't calling Closing Time bad, I enjoy it but did not expect that. Love these interviews Trilbee, really made my night.
There’s an issue of Doctor who magazine (the one which was an exclusive about the Cybermen) that had an interview with Gareth Roberts. He said there that he grew up with who during the Tom Baker years & his only real exposure to the Cybermen was revenge of the cybermen. It’s because of that he didn’t have much of an attachment to the cybermen as opposed to other monsters that appeared such as the Daleks or the Zygons. This is why the Cybermen feel like such an afterthought in this episode.
Also the Cybermen being undermined since doomsday is likely the reason why nightmare in silver has them being so overpowered. However that episode has a load of issues which we’ll see covered over in a couple of days.
Don't forget that Nightmare In Silver was suppost to be two parts but for whatever reason became only one part.
@@dustin_4501 Blame series 7's gimmick of no 2 parters
Was something involving them being a little too inhuman?
@@llewelynshingler2173 Oh yeah i forget that Season/Series 7 didn't have two part stories, maybe could be something good to the Cybermen at least if the episode was 2 parts would explain that the Cybermen from the alternative universe mix them selfs with the Mondasian Cybermen so this would make them hybrid from this point.
36:58 Is it The Silver Turk tomorrow? I would be hesitant to say for definite as it was used as the inspiration for Haunting of Villa Dia Dati but Spare Parts got covered despite being the inspiration for Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel and 'World Enough and Time'. It would also have been cool to see the Cyberman series by Big Finish get covered... and I hope Supremacy of the Cybermen gets covered.
Closing Time is one of those episodes that I love to rewatch. Matt Smith and James Corden have good chemistry, the Cybermats are a lot of fun, and despite not being the focus Cybermen are decent here, too. Series 6 is one of my favorite seasons of modern Who.
i was honestly kind of scared of how this video would work, but i shouldn't have worried, this is one of my fave episodes of the show as a whole and its really nice to see it treated with such respect and understanding
you showed so much understanding and respect to every single one of these epsidoes for this marathon and I just adore every single video
well done
also thank you so much for the interview with the director!!! such a lovely treat!!! and listening to him was fasinating
Great interview :)
Wow, you got to talk to the director! I'd really put that you got to talk to him in the title! I would have watched it a lot sooner if I'd have known that, and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one more intrigued to watch it. :)
The cop-out with the crying baby is probably my most hated Cyberman moment
For me it’s cyber-brig in death in heaven
At least they subverted this with Ashad, who gleefully talks about how he killed his children and that he only spared a child as they were weak. And when you know some of the history around Mary's family...
@@MrThorfan64
Yeah
That's why i love Ashad so much
Working titles were Carry-On Lodging, Everything Must Go, The Last Adventure and Three Cybermen and a Baby.
Everything Must Go could make a good episode name honestly
This was a awesome show and I enjoyed every second. The baby just added to the show. And the idea that it crying could bring "Dad" back from cybermandom was genius.
OH MY GOD, YOU'RE DOING THE SILVER TURK AREN'T YOU! To quote Matt Smith, "I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS!"
Personally. I love that Craig blew them up with love. As a parent I completely get it. It's one thing thinking about your loved ones while scared and not really sure what's going on. But Craig understands the cybermen. He knows fully what's happening. Meaning he wont be as confused as most in the moment. Actually hearing you child cry out for you would give anyone superhuman strength.
Also he In the previous episode also was able to overpower a silent ship
He's Is a strong willed individual
The only difference between him and the likes of an average companion is that he chooses to stay on earth because that's where he's happy
Can I be honest? Emotionally Craig's resistance always worked for me. I've always cried every time.
Dude. For The Next Doctor it was “the guest star should save the day.” This time it’s “the Doctor should save the day.” Pick a side!
Only kidding (mostly). 😜
For me this is quite a weak story but the scene with 11 and Alfie/Stormageddon is always great to watch. Just hearing him talk about how he dreamt of reaching the stars and travelling the universe and how that was exactly what he did.
Around 12mins in: this video is already rapping up? I’m only one third into it.
15 mins in: okay, that guest was a REALLY COOL ADDITION!!!
OH MY GOSH! YAY! The Eighth Doctor is the best! :D
I watched your original Closing Time video, 9 years old now! Unfortunately as Blip is down can't find the longer version. But as ever, a great video.
Great work and what an interview!
I don’t mind this episode. It’s far from the best outing of the Cybermen... wow, the Cybermen really don’t have great luck in the Modern Era, huh.
Yeah they are either great or forgettable
Eighth Doctor Cybermen Big Finish Stories:
Sword of Orion - 2001
Human Resources - 2007
The Girl Who Never Was - 2007
The Silver Turk - 2011
Silver Turk fits all the hints that you mentioned so that's going to be the next one.
I love closing time it is a really good doctor who story and I love James Corden it this doctor who and matt Smith give a great profamce as the eleven doctor in this story
Silver Turk would be interesting to cover, as the plot was reminiscent of a recent cyberman episode in particular...
But I assume it’s probably going to be Sword of Orion or Human Resources?
Sword of Orion was released in 2001 and he already reviewed Spare Parts. Human Resources and The Girl Who Never Was were both released in 2007 so it wouldn't work out. Silver Turk from 2011 fits the timeframe perfectly
@@ishaandw yeah on reflection that fits better
Not really my top Cybermen stories and i still hate that a Cyber Convertion can be put down so easily but interesting interview and a bit of behind the scenes too Mr TARDIS.
Still Series 6 finale is better that The Timeless Children.
I disagree the wedding of River Song is far less superiors then the timeless children because at least the timeless children was telling a story.
@@nathanielfarkas746 Yeah, the Master is tell the story while Jodie is sleep. And that is.
Loved this review dude
I liked the team of Craig, Alfie, & The Doctor, I also liked the new cyber mats.
Next time:
March of the Cybermen
Mayster
Augaloffst
Nimonver
Yeah I’m shit at puns
Very professional and thorough reviews for classic and new episodes!
The episode's comedy is very labored, the music doesn't help it, and the modern day Earth formula is even more overused. But the Cybermen are true to form and make up for it. Nice to see Cybermats back too.
that was a good video! great interview with the director.
This and The Lodger were the first and for years only, things I knew James Cordon from. Every time I hear stories of him being egotistical, I laugh and remember I used to think of him as “that heavyset guy from that one cyber man episode”.
That was lovely, cheers
Broadly I liked it but always felt like cybermen were crammed in. Still good overall thi.
I'll give Closing Time credit, It is just harmless fun, Not one of the greats But it gets a 'Good enough' in my book.
This episode is a guilty pleasure ahah - I don't know why it's not loved more. But the constant I am the Dr Theme throughout series 6... brings it down a little.
Great review but doubly impressed with the director interview. Makes me pine for the new series to receive the same treatment as the classic series in terms of behind the scenes coverage. Hopefully if they do that they'll get you involved because your balanced and intelligent content would be a welcome addition to an already wonderful set of creators. Thank you for getting there first.
I think the real reason why the Cybermen's plan failed was because James Corden is so obnoxious he can't be converted
Speaking as someone who was eight when this story was released the horror regarding that security guard disappearing and then implied to be the Cybermen who finds the Doctor was actually pretty disturbing. It’s the same with Craig being chosen to be the cyber controller. It’s how the small things like seeing Craig become emotionless as the cyber helmet closes or smaller things like the Doctor finding the security guards name badge on the floor which reminded me of the things we hold and take for granted as part of our person can be ripped away so quickly by the Cybermen.
It’s a detail touched on a bit in Rise Of The Cybermen but I feel it more so here because of the way parenthood which is a theme in the story plays into the emotional horror of seeing people upgraded. It’s an underrated part of an otherwise average episode.
A comment for the algorithm
Mat was a prefect doctor miss his doctor
He’s like the 2nd doctor with more added on
@@joshimations894 was going to say the same he acted a lot like troughton
@@johngurnhill8743 he was inspired by him
This one does very little for me, though I haven't yet got to it in my rewatch so who knows.
Bloody hell your bonus content is longer then the main thing. :D
I know I'm in the minority but I genuinely love craig defeating the cybermen with love it's the right ending to a craig story, even if it diminishes the cybermen a bit.
11:54 Love! who's been screwing with this thing!
I just remembered, the shop assistant who thinks Craig and The Doctor are gay, is played by Lynda Baron who played Auntie Mabel from Come Outside
I wonder..? When I first saw this episode (which I sort of liked) I felt it might have worked better if they used a 'modernised' classic era style (possibly 'Invasion' or 'Earthshock') type Cybermen, perhaps for a one-off appearance...
I feel like this is a decent light-hearted story, but not a good Cyberman story. I get that it needs a familiar villain to work, but I feel like they probably could have picked a different villain for this one, perhaps the Autons or the Silurians.
That being said, I do like the look of the Cybermen in this one. But ultimately it's not worth it if they're going to be defeated by love, which utterly undermines the Cybermen.
Well it’s not as bad as nightmare in silver, which I’m assuming is tomorrow.
I read somewhere that cypermats was baby’s but it was to dark to become canon
Yknow I actually liked both of the Craig episodes I always thought they were just low stakes fun adventures which Matt Smith really didn’t get a lot of those
One of the things that really bothers me in this episode is that it leans in hard to the cliché about a Dad struggling to cope without Mum around. It's a very boring and patronising trope.
Very good review. I'm always too hard on this one. It is pretty good.
I couldn't stomach watching James Cordon for 45 minutes.
O ORINGRNALLY THOUGHT CREG WAS RORY FROM THE FUTURE THEN I THOUGHT HE WAS THE GUY FROM LOVE AND MONSTERS
So the silver turk, then hes going to do nightmare in silver, suppose because the tv seires borrowed from it twice
The Thing is, Craig is exceptionally average. That is his superpower.
Sitting on the sofa and hanging out with his loved ones is as important to him
As the tardis and traveling is to the doctor
In both this and the lodger, what Ultimately, is the fact that unlike the doctor Craig is grounded in the domestic
Am I the only one who thought the 11th doctor's theme played a few too many times throughout series 6? Every episode it would start during the climax of the story and me and my partner would look at each other xD
It’s going to be human resourves
The Cyberman part of the story might not be all that good, but the 11th Doctor and Craig are I think the best Doctor/guy companion pairing since the 2nd Doctor and Jamie so it helps the story. And the 2 men and a baby thing is great.
Not gonna lie, this was my least favourite cyberman episode, even attack of the cybermen was better, haha
Yep. This was one of the worst episodes since the show came back. Plot no-one cares about, terrible banter dialogue, horrible jokes, flanderised 11th Doctor.
Nightmare in Silver exists....can't wait to get to that trainwreck
Damn, its a shame that we didn't get a Cyberman story with the Cyber Legion from A Good Man Goes to War. Cybermen from our universe with the Cybus design (minus the logo ofc) would have been so great. This story works ok with the Cybermen being on their last legs, and having the Cybermat running around works as a build up, but damn, if only...
It's strange they only get minor appearances in 'The Pandorica Opens', this episode, and 'A Good Man Goes to War' then are relegated to background in 'Nightmare in Silver' and 'The Doctor Falls'. Considering how popular the Cybermen are and how popular the Legion design is, you'd have expected them to have got a major story at some point.
I actually kind of like this story. It was novel and fun. And it has some good comedy.
Didn’t know the director was from Gods Town. Wigannnnn.
i love the episodes where the doc tries to act normal with a bumbling normie man
14:15
What’cha know about rolling down in the deep
Oh no. Gareth Roberts.
Please can I do Mastercember, Mr TARDIS? The Master is just my favourite villain of all time, just for how Moriarty he is, and also how he isn't like Moriarty. Please message me, I'm more than happy to work with you. Just for the record, I do like the Master, my favourite being Delgado and Alex MacQueen
I actually hated how they depicted the conversion process in this episode
If James Corden was converted he would be funnier and much more enjoyable to be around
I just realised my fav doctor got the worst Dalek and Cybermen stories
If only big baby James wasn't in these episodes, the script for both of them reads pretty well but his acting is awful and they haven't aged well as a result of him being in them
👍👍❤️❤️
Unles cyberman helmets are bigger on the inside, how did James Cordon's face fit inside one?
Jk. But seriously, the cyber conversion in this episode is so off. Placing metal plates over someone's clothes? We all know they dispose of most organic matter so I personally hate this episode.
The whole River song Doctor dying arc put me right off the series, became way too complicated and ridiculous
my headcanon is that the cybermen stopped converting craig because they realised he was james corden
The Cybermen and the Cybermat look great but not a good episode for the poor old cyborgs which has become quite a trend ever since
Hands down the worst episode of Doctor who, classic or new...absolutely bloody awful.
Hunting Cybermen with a fat bloke and a baby...what a winner lol.
Is anyone scared of Cybermen after this episode???