+Gamechamp3000 Nice one, but it has to be said that those day infant mortality was rampant (non-infant mortality was pretty high, too), so it was less of a shock. Add to that the Sultan's succession almost always meant that the new Sultan had to execute brothers and half-brothers to avoid insurrections (and those brothers and half-brother had to claim the throne for themselves to avoid being executed), and you find that Suleiman's threshold for sadness probably was higher than of the average man of our time.
"So there he was, the mightiest monarch of the mightiest empire of the modern world, ready to conquer life with his true love and his one true friend at his side faithfully at his side." Again, love the parallels to Justinian.
+Geary At the time of Justinian, it probably was. There were no other great powers in Europe, no sprawling Mongol khanates, no conquering Muslims surging out of Arabia, and distant China was in one of its many fragmentary periods. The only power to rival Rome in that time were the Sassanid Persians, but to call them 'mightier' is dubious.
I think, not parallels but cause and effect. With a family comes determination, with trusted brothers-in-arms comes faith in victory. While more is certainly needed for greatness, its a huge deal in determining if you ever hear of them, or will they be another nameless monarch in another list of monarchs.
Very capable and loyal friend? Check. Success at squashing rebellions? Check. Major law reform? Check. Famous queen that he raised from obscurity due to love? Check. Lavish architecture projects? Check. Conquests? Check. That's it, Suleiman is Justnian reborn.
HungarianMapper I didn't mean it in the bloodline sense XD And let's be honest - the fall of Constantinople was one of the greatest tragedies and if I had a time machine I would try to reverse it - but the Turks did it fair and square. In history the bad guys (from our point of view) sometimes win. Plus, if Turkey did not rise to power, we would not have the epic battles of Malta and Vienna. I am from Poland, so the Turks killed quite a lot of my people as well. They even killed a king who ruled over both of our nations. Still, if somebody underestimates the enemy, I will call him a fool, and if he does not acknowledge other cultures, he is a barbarian. I hope you are neither of these and I misinterpreted your mildly insulting statement.
Actually, her name was Aleksandra. Roxellana is what she was called by Western chroniclers because it ties into the region she was kidnapped from by the Tatar slavers who originally sold her to Suleiman. To the Turks, she was known as Hurrem, meaning "cheerful one", because of her cheerful disposition and playful personality. Also, Suleiman wasn't married before. The woman you referred to as his "wife" was actually just his former favourite concubine, and the mother of Mustafa. I was really hoping you'd go into more detail about the relationship between Hurrem and Suleiman. Hopefully it comes up in the later episodes.
Aleksandra and Ibrahim each easily deserve their own series. The Sultanate was always very cruel to even its most cherished property, which often included human beings stolen from their homes. Obviously I have nothing against Turks though, they suffered greatly under the yoke of the Ottoman Empire as well.
That's because Ottomans had actually very little control over it, with the mameluk being virtually autonomous. So being governor there was more a pretend title than anything.
+icedragon769 Agreed; this particular is executed similarly to an art house, historical biography/documentary. Such a style I haven't seen since the tale of Admiral Yi many months before this.
+Caca Caca Join the Patreon and you can vote on the next topics. Pay a bit more and you can suggest them. The next vote usually starts the same day as the Lies video . After Sulieman is Early Christian Heresies, then The Opium Wars, then The Gracchi Brothers: How Democracy Dies.
I feel so sorry for the boy king of Hungry. elected by rivals, forced and schemed against, and ultimately pushed to his death by the foolishness of old men. poor little bastard.
Not really :/ See, extra History left a few things out. For instance, they did not expected the Hungarian army to wait for them at Mohács, so they were still in coloum formation when they reached the places. Seeing this, the actually competent commander of the army Pál Tomori orderd a charge for the 15 000 knights and armoured horseman. First, it was kind of effective. the Anatolian cavalary lost most of their numbers, and (for a time) they were routed, the infantry too had a great number of casulties as well, as they did't have time to set up their cannons yet. 20 000 hungarians were lost, and most historyans estimate an Ottoman loss of over 25 000 in dead and wounded.
Okay, here are some things to the "lies" episode: 1. The Turks didn't cross the Danube (at least not where it was shown :P). The Ottoman army marched through Bosnia and crossed the Szava and the Drava rivers to reach Mohács. The village (and the plains) are on the other side of the Danube. 2. It wasn't the nobility that forced the king of Hungary to fight. When word reached him that the Ottomans were on the way, he immediately sent word to muster the forces of the country. But it was unanswered. The "mobilisation" only started when the Ottomans reached Bosnia. This meant that everyone was 3 MONTHS LATE. Luckily Louis II was also the king of Bohemia and had a good relationship with the Habsurgs of Austria so he had access to german and czech mercenaries to bolster his forces. The knights described in the episode were actually far inferior in number to the mercenaries (but the army size of 30000 is a fair estimate). 3. The reinforcements didn't know whether they should move or not. János Szapolyai (the Voivod of Transylvania) had 15000 men near the Tisza but he recieved conflicting orders literally every other day: one said they should hurry to assist in the coming battle, the other said that they should guard the river in case there's a flanking attack. 4. The Turks didn't have 100000 men, more like 50-60000 arriving in two groups. The Hungarians wanted to rout the Anatolian army before the Rumelian arived to help them. Which failed... and backfired miserably. 5. The turkish scouts didn't find the body of the king right after the battle because he drowned in a brook during the retreat. He fell off his horse while trying to cross the Csele and his heavy armor was his doom. Also, he wasn't a child. In 1526 he was already 20 years old. 6. Suleiman didn't want to belive that this was everything Hungary could muster. He awaited the arrival of the "main" force because he thought that it was merely the vanguard that he had just defeated. He kept his army on high alert for an entire day before he figured out what was really going on. 7. This may be a personal interpretation but the video implies that Suleiman captured Hungary right after the battle. This is false. The Turks merely sacked Buda and rampaged through Central Hungary before they left the country. Suleiman didn't return to capture the kingdom until exactly 15 years later. If you think I'm being poetic, I'm not. The battle of Mohács took place on 29th of August 1526. Buda fell to the Ottomans on the 29th of August 1541... I realise that some things must be changed for the sake of the narrative but I still hope that this will reach you! Wonderful work you're doing, keep it up! :)
+Lockret You sir and/or madam deserve a thumbs up. As good as this series usually is when concerning Asian or western Europe topics, the research for eastern Europe seems to be, once again, lackluster...
MartinGreywolf I'll take sir, thank you very much :D Thanks for the compliment! They said that they change some things for the sake of consistent narrative flow and enjoyment so maybe some details fell victim to this. The research may not be lackluster, we won't know that until we reach the "lies" episode.
Suleiman truly was a man of heart. Crying for the loss of an important person, such as the enemy's is something we rarely see in history. Props for this guy.
+MrPlanets2 He could have also just chosen not to invade other countries with the explicit purpose of imposing his religion and rule over their populace. So if anything, he was a slightly softer warmonger than what was average.
I sometimes forget how war kept on changing with technology. Armor Plate and Spear's V.S. Gun's and Cloth. Really does remind me of my Civilization campaign's.
+Nextgener The thing that Civ never conveys and this channel doesn't go in depth enough to show; is that armor at the turn of conflict from sword to gun actually was semi effective. Guns weren't largely rifled or machined so bounced a lot in the tube reducing their speed. Against a piece of wedged armor, it can actually deflect these really mediocre guns. It's why the Hungarians got so far. It wasn't till guns gained enough piercing power to just slice through armor that it was discarded completely.
+Ibnziyad Tariq Persian war was not. In battle of Marathon, just about every able bodied Athenian citizen marched into the field, their commander, Miltiades, marched shoulder to shoulder with them. In a true citizen army, everyone shares in decision making, responsibilities, and risks.
+damascus21 Because things are running really well right now. I think Suleiman actually didnt get any too serious problems during his reign, but I think the Ottos started losing right after it ended.
+Etropalker they started declining after 1683 but they were a rotting empire before that as well as soon as they stopped fighting backwords Africans and Asians and met with real power, the Habsburgs things changed alot for them.
The reflective portion of the series is captivating and very well written. What is history if not the recollection of the past of others? It just adds another pay to the story telling that helps greatly. Awesome work as usual guys!
I wish this show could be more frequent, but I understand the amount of effort that must go into these episodes. I shall eagerly and patiently await the next episode!
This is such a coincidence actually. A few months ago, I started to read and study about Suleiman the Magnificent while watching other Extra History series and then lo and behold, a series on Suleiman this month. This is amazing. What references did you use for the series if I may ask?
***** Don't forget the Franco-Ottoman Alliance, which was huge, as well as taking Baghdad. Justinian also never had to contend with a rival nearly as powerful as Charles V.
+kritonas dionysiou mean he was man who had his son strangled infront of him and Ibrahim will later meet the sword by his hands too ... He also in some records is have wanted the head of the Hungarian king decapitated and marched around Hungary , not exactly what you'd call a nice guy ....
Second vizier:can I be governor of Egypt. Suleiman: ok Second vizier: I here by found the sultanate of Egypt with myself as sultan. Suleiman: wtf Ibrahim go deal with the Egyptians. Ibrahim:sure.
He was fairly young, especially for a king, no debate there. I was mostly making a criticism of his portrayal as what appeared to be a 10 year old boy.
Pretty sure it wasn't called Petrovaradin(the fortress in Sofia), Petrovaradin which is in Novi Sad is part of Serbia (Vojvodina) which was then part of Hungary
+grfrjiglstan Well he was 20 at the time. So on hand hand calling him a child is a bit exaturated. On the other hand there were kings younger than him doing winning battles and inheriting kingdom throughout the medieval.
+grfrjiglstan *Hungarian here* As it said in the video, the king didn't want to go, but a bunch of stupid nobles made him. Same with the army. There were supposed to be another 10,000 troops arriving from Transylvania, but the count there decided that he didn't really feel like coming. The entire battle is rather famous in Hungarian history, because it really meant the defeat of Hungary. Though during the battle, there were many chances for the Hungarians to potentially be victorious, the leadership was divided, and all the wrong choices were made. It was just a giant mess really.
I love your extra history vids, keep em coming! The king of Hungary (Louis II) was 20 when he died, not a child in middle age reckoning. Despite Suleiman being a decent guy, their was no "oh the humanity!" moment when his body was discovered, especially since it was discovered by Hungarian knights. I really love your videos guys, keep doing them!
+Matthew Jay-Armstrong mean he was man who had his son strangled infront of him and Ibrahim will later meet the sword by his hands too ... He also in some records is have wanted the head of the Hungarian king decapitated and marched around Hungary , not exactly what you'd call a nice guy ....
Hey, I know that this is not exactly relevant to this specific extra history, @Extra Credits, but Palmyra has been re-taken from IS! so that's some good news.
Matthew Aubry I don't know if there is one definitive article superior to any other, but googling palmyra and looking in the news would be a start if you want more news (because it's a very recent thing. for now, have some BBC www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35898995
Petrovaradin was not in Sofia but in city of Novi Sad or as Hungarians called it : Újvidék which is 80km north of Belgrade. And once Austrian army took Petrovaradin Foretress back in 1687 and fortified it...it was never conquered again.
+I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter (#WTFU) yeah, just look how sorry he apparently was for having killed a child after invading a country and slaughtering thousands of infidels ; )
Suleiman really was magniicent!Merciful to the knights of Rhodes and tolerable to religions.He is one of my favorite people in history as well as somebody I would like to take some lessons after.
I will prefice this by saying that I absolutely adore Extra History. I have watched every episode, many of them multiple times. You thought me a lot about the parts of history that always interested me and even more about those that I knew little about. This being said, I have to point out that Vienna has been in the same place for a long time and it is nowhere near the place where you drew it. I could more easily understand if you have missplaced, for example, Petrovaradin, which no longer exists, but c'mon guys: the capitol of Austria is not in Hungary. :)
when rewatching the events unfold then finishing an going back to the other, episodes an looking at all the other events its sad to see such a great man strive, find happiness an his true love, then slowly losing it all in the coming years one after the other it really breaks my heart when i see it, makes it more upsetting seeing such a story being told in a way just hits the heart strings.
They keep talking about Ibrahim and how well Suleiman get a long with him and it just fills me with dread cause it feels like foreshadowing... (As person who knows nothing about this period)
+TheLalchi Suleiman kills his son too. Suleiman is such a serious man :) Also Ibrahim could't get what he deserved all his life. His wife killed his own son by accident and currently according to a stupid tv series most of the people in Turkey thinks Ibrahim was a betrayor and an unimportant man. History is such a bich :)
+Thorbjørn Steen Yeah, it kinda feels like that was important since it was pointed out explicitly. But we already know that it wasn't something (slowly) lethal, because this series started with Suleiman as an old man.
+Thorbjørn Steen It is just a storyteler thing of those times. Hungarians rushed as they knew only with the death of him could stop them. And it failed so bad, they could only throw one thing at them, then perish. It is a bit over-compensating, but most of our novells and such are from the romantic era, (if interested, can even help oyu to some), but this is not really true. They were so badly defeated, that hungarians count their demise from that date.
I really do think the Ottomans should be considered the Roman Empire's continuation. Aside from the religious changes (not the 1st time the state religion had changed) much had remained the same. Constantinople/Istanbul was still the capital, side from a few bits of North Africa the Ottomans had control of most of the Eastern Empire's holdings (a reversal of centuries of decline), the civil administration remained largely unchanged save for the inevitable advancements of time and aforementioned religious reforms, and the Sultan's evened viewed themselves cut from the same cloth as the Emperor's. In truth the 'Ottoman Empire' were simply an Islamic Roman dynasty rejected as such by Christian-centric historians.
+David Kelly To an extent you are right, at least in terms of the later Eastern Rome. Though the Ottoman Empires culture was far removed from the Greek/Mediterranean influenced roman culture that dominated The Roman Empire at the height of it's power before Christianity and the fall of the west
GepardenK As you say though the Greeks were far removed from the Latins who themselves were radically different than they had been before Christianity. They were still Romans though, a civilization that, depending on how you count, lasted 3k years WOULDN'T be the same.
+David Kelly The Ottomans did indeed view themselves as a continuation of the Roman Empire, at least as far as Mehmed II goes. He actually held the title Caesar of Rome!
***** That's my point. The 'Ottomans' are as the Byzantines were, non-existent things invented by Western historians not wanting to share the glory of Rome (never mind that they're the descendants of the barbarians that ruined it). An objective view of history either has Rome end when Christianity replaced Hellenism or when Atatürk deposed the last Osman (Ottoman) sultan. Which depends on if you define Rome as a cultural or political entity, the former excluding the Greeks and Christian Latins along with the Turks.
+David Kelly There is really no argument for Ottomans being heirs of Rome other than territory. The country that had probably the best claim was either the HRE(by Pope) or Russian Empire(by marriage and becoming the new center of orthodox(byzantine) christianity). Neither of those exist anymore.
This episode really reminds me of their Justinian series on the Byzantine Empire. Suleiman, Roxelana and Ibrahim trio match up to Justinian, Theodora and Belisarius. It kinds of reflects how the Ottoman Empire defeat and succeded the Byzantine.
Roxelana (Roksolana) was in fact Ukrainian, not Polish, though back that time that part of Ukraine was under Polish reign. We have beautiful legends of her and her role in the life of the Emperor Suleiman. And even TV-series.
+moristar1101 I would not determine one's nationality by the place they are born, but by the state they are part of, by the language they speak and the culture they live in. And in this sense she was probably polish then. (If that wasn't ukrainian territory culturally, that was only occupied for a short period) I don't know that. But if I had to guess, this was not the case, since there was this west-relocation of poland after the world wars, where russia took polish land and drove them into former german territory instead. So I could imagine that this has something to do with the ukrainian and polish border changes aswell. Which then would mean that it was actually polish before. But that is just a guess...
+moristar1101 Ah, thank you, i was going to point that out myself. She is an important part of our history and here she is suddenly Polish. No offence to bros from Poland, you guys are cool :)
KEine Ahnung she was ethnically Ukrainian, as most in Western Ukraine were during Lutauen-Polish kingdom, which also included Belarus and Ukraine (both partially). People in Canada are formally under Queen, but you're not calling them British, right? Ukrainians lived there during Poland, Austria, Russia and Soviet - and still were Ukrainians.
i,310 it's hard to tell as a lot of jews lived in those territories along upper Polish class and lower rural Ukrainian class. She might be half-blood as she is portrayed to be redhaired, which is not very common among Ukrainians, so she might have some jewish, russin or russian blood in her. Or she might simply be red :)
wait... what hit Suleiman's chest... I thought it was going to be like what happened with Admiral Yi... something pretty bad they'd notice later you can't just say something as vauge as "someTHING hit his breastplate" 'cause let's be honest this series and everything Extra Credits writes is incredibly well written, but a sentence like that adds nothing to the story unless it comes back later.
Oh okay! I was wondering why that sentence was there, that actually explains it. (However I think the fact he had to pull his saber explained that adequately)
+HeeminGamin I also was curious about the fact how they mentioned Ibrahim to be a slave, yet at the same time was able to become grand vizier and marry into Suleiman's family. EC seems to be just a touch less concise than usual, which is still impeccable, but still.
It feels like you're being rather biased against the Hungarian forces. While their strategy in the battle of Mohacs was nothing short of suicidal, it wasn't without a clear goal in mind: rush Suleiman and attempt to "decapitate" the enemy army, an understandable strategy for such an outnumbered, desperate force. And it seems like, despite it all, they still managed to get just THAT close to achieving their goal! Instead of that sappy scene with Suleiman and the Hungarian king, I feel you really missed an opportunity by handwaving the rest Hungarian forces as "suicidal brutes that couldn't even come up with a decent strategy"...
+Guy Fawkes They're relying on sources from the winning side, though. Just like earlier, when we were told that the entire populations of Korea and Japan consisted of bumbling idiots, aside from the immaculately brilliant Admiral Yi.
"He was really really sad when his sons died, but then he had another one and was happier than ever!" That was a quick turnaround.
+Gamechamp3000 Nice one, but it has to be said that those day infant mortality was rampant (non-infant mortality was pretty high, too), so it was less of a shock. Add to that the Sultan's succession almost always meant that the new Sultan had to execute brothers and half-brothers to avoid insurrections (and those brothers and half-brother had to claim the throne for themselves to avoid being executed), and you find that Suleiman's threshold for sadness probably was higher than of the average man of our time.
He executed Mustafa and one of the 4 that Hürrem had...
It’s ya boi, game champ!
VG myths: can you beat sonic 06 without any glitches (glitches during cutscenes and uncontrollable glitches don't count)
Fancy seeing you here
This is going suspiciously well for Suleiman so far.
it went well for him his whole life. Only thing was that he died before taking Vienna.
+dragatus He led the Ottoman's golden age and reached their peak during his reign. Unfortunatly, after Suleyman the empire started to slowly decline.
The way the story is told, it makes it seem like something bad is going to happen any moment now.
+dragatus
Actually it was Walpole who manipulated the strings behind the scenes..
Well a lot of drama will happen . I will not spoil it for you !
"So there he was, the mightiest monarch of the mightiest empire of the modern world, ready to conquer life with his true love and his one true friend at his side faithfully at his side." Again, love the parallels to Justinian.
lol so true. I didn't notice that.
To be fair, Byzantine was far from 'the mightiest empire' of its time. :P
+Geary At the time of Justinian, it probably was. There were no other great powers in Europe, no sprawling Mongol khanates, no conquering Muslims surging out of Arabia, and distant China was in one of its many fragmentary periods. The only power to rival Rome in that time were the Sassanid Persians, but to call them 'mightier' is dubious.
Khosrau as well.
I think, not parallels but cause and effect.
With a family comes determination, with trusted brothers-in-arms comes faith in victory.
While more is certainly needed for greatness, its a huge deal in determining if you ever hear of them, or will they be another nameless monarch in another list of monarchs.
Very capable and loyal friend? Check.
Success at squashing rebellions? Check.
Major law reform? Check.
Famous queen that he raised from obscurity due to love? Check.
Lavish architecture projects? Check.
Conquests? Check.
That's it, Suleiman is Justnian reborn.
Now all we need is for someone to ship them.
Great projects and campaigns that seemed like a good idea at the time but probably brought more problems than fixed? Check.
MegaMementoMori I just mean, how could a nation who destroy Justinians dream have his blood?
MegaMementoMori Also you call me a barbarian and a fool when this ruler just killed his family and slaughtered my people, yeah ok...
HungarianMapper
I didn't mean it in the bloodline sense XD
And let's be honest - the fall of Constantinople was one of the greatest tragedies and if I had a time machine I would try to reverse it - but the Turks did it fair and square. In history the bad guys (from our point of view) sometimes win. Plus, if Turkey did not rise to power, we would not have the epic battles of Malta and Vienna.
I am from Poland, so the Turks killed quite a lot of my people as well. They even killed a king who ruled over both of our nations. Still, if somebody underestimates the enemy, I will call him a fool, and if he does not acknowledge other cultures, he is a barbarian. I hope you are neither of these and I misinterpreted your mildly insulting statement.
Man, Suleiman really likes hugging...
+Jerry Parkerst IIRC, in Islamic culture, it's very common for men to embrace each other. A lot. And I mean, /a lot/.
+Jerry Parkerst Guy friends were really tight, literally, before homophobia became a thing in the early 20th century.
+Jerry Parkerst who doesn't?
most of them were gay, google that shit
+TheCritisizingMelon lol, not. Thats european view of history for you.
Holy Hot Mess is the best sneaky joke in one of these that I've seen in a while haha.
Also wonderfully accurate. I'd love to see a future series dive into that.
The Reformation war, or the 30 Year war however you want to call it.
@X6 64
So, like, basically the singoku jidai of Germany?
Actually, her name was Aleksandra. Roxellana is what she was called by Western chroniclers because it ties into the region she was kidnapped from by the Tatar slavers who originally sold her to Suleiman.
To the Turks, she was known as Hurrem, meaning "cheerful one", because of her cheerful disposition and playful personality.
Also, Suleiman wasn't married before. The woman you referred to as his "wife" was actually just his former favourite concubine, and the mother of Mustafa.
I was really hoping you'd go into more detail about the relationship between Hurrem and Suleiman. Hopefully it comes up in the later episodes.
Aleksandra and Ibrahim each easily deserve their own series. The Sultanate was always very cruel to even its most cherished property, which often included human beings stolen from their homes. Obviously I have nothing against Turks though, they suffered greatly under the yoke of the Ottoman Empire as well.
damn egypt is given to a lot of people
That's because Ottomans had actually very little control over it, with the mameluk being virtually autonomous. So being governor there was more a pretend title than anything.
Considering the distance between istanbul and whatever the capital in egypt at the time... Yeah...
even more true for Greece
And Rome.
egypt sudan algeria tunisia Libya syria israel saudia Arabia iraq Jordan qatar vs Asia african country..
Embracing looks weird when you don't have arms.
Yeah
Sulieman and Ibrahim looks like they had one of the most epic of bromances in the whole world.
Victor Menjivar lol bromance
Tragic how that turned out.
He was like "bros before hoes"
James, you've outdone yourself in the writing of this one. This series is without a doubt the most beautiful Extra History to date.
+icedragon769 Agreed; this particular is executed similarly to an art house, historical biography/documentary. Such a style I haven't seen since the tale of Admiral Yi many months before this.
With his best friend and the love of his life by his side, Suleiman is ready to take on the world.
+Extra Credits Did you guys mean to publish this one early? I got here from Patreon, but I just noticed it on my RUclips subscriptions too.
+Caca Caca Join the Patreon and you can vote on the next topics. Pay a bit more and you can suggest them. The next vote usually starts the same day as the Lies video .
After Sulieman is Early Christian Heresies, then The Opium Wars, then The Gracchi Brothers: How Democracy Dies.
+Extra Credits i cant wait for them to get beaten up in vienna xD
Roxelana wasn't Polish though, she was Ukrainian. That's literally what the name means.
Extra Credits shared my thoughts about your channel in my Top ten RUclips channels, I'm such a small channel but check it out if you'd like.
Those are some remarkably small heads if Ibrahim could fit five hundred of them into a bag about the size of his own head.
+Overhazard Maybe it was their dickheads.
+Overhazard Have you seen the size of these Turkish hats? They must have enormous heads.
+Инреr sонал Oh, now it makes sense!
Abby Ritter Giant onion hats!
Bookhead714 Do you know those onion hat are used to cover up the Sultan's body when he die?
I feel so sorry for the boy king of Hungry. elected by rivals, forced and schemed against, and ultimately pushed to his death by the foolishness of old men. poor little bastard.
me as well. The boy never wanted to charge like a bull. He needed those reinforcements, even if they were only in the 10s of thousands...
+TheAlbion stop calling the king of hungary a boy WTF? a boy thats 20 years old?
+SCARFACE07OWNER yeah, a boy. Anything below 27 or so is a boy, you'll see it when your grow up... kid. XDDDD
happy birthday! you sound like you just had your 28th
Adox TNW then Suleiman was also a boy XDDDDD
Holy Hot Mess. This is the first time Ive laughed so hard at a historical video.
Even more hilarious is the fact, that there was some truth in it.
Rick K that the video was funny
+Rick K
It's because that area was the Holy Empire, and it was falling apart with internal strife, hence "Holy Hot Mess"
Someone accidental threw a holy hand grenade
Now you'll cry watching next
Hungarian strategy: LEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY
+Pika Zilla Hahaha
+Pika Zilla
Jacksoooon.
Kappa.
I wondered if it worked? lol
+Pika Zilla Fried Chicken hummm numm nomm
Not really :/
See, extra History left a few things out. For instance, they did not expected the Hungarian army to wait for them at Mohács, so they were still in coloum formation when they reached the places. Seeing this, the actually competent commander of the army Pál Tomori orderd a charge for the 15 000 knights and armoured horseman. First, it was kind of effective. the Anatolian cavalary lost most of their numbers, and (for a time) they were routed, the infantry too had a great number of casulties as well, as they did't have time to set up their cannons yet. 20 000 hungarians were lost, and most historyans estimate an Ottoman loss of over 25 000 in dead and wounded.
Okay, here are some things to the "lies" episode:
1. The Turks didn't cross the Danube (at least not where it was shown :P). The Ottoman army marched through Bosnia and crossed the Szava and the Drava rivers to reach Mohács. The village (and the plains) are on the other side of the Danube.
2. It wasn't the nobility that forced the king of Hungary to fight. When word reached him that the Ottomans were on the way, he immediately sent word to muster the forces of the country. But it was unanswered. The "mobilisation" only started when the Ottomans reached Bosnia. This meant that everyone was 3 MONTHS LATE. Luckily Louis II was also the king of Bohemia and had a good relationship with the Habsurgs of Austria so he had access to german and czech mercenaries to bolster his forces. The knights described in the episode were actually far inferior in number to the mercenaries (but the army size of 30000 is a fair estimate).
3. The reinforcements didn't know whether they should move or not. János Szapolyai (the Voivod of Transylvania) had 15000 men near the Tisza but he recieved conflicting orders literally every other day: one said they should hurry to assist in the coming battle, the other said that they should guard the river in case there's a flanking attack.
4. The Turks didn't have 100000 men, more like 50-60000 arriving in two groups. The Hungarians wanted to rout the Anatolian army before the Rumelian arived to help them. Which failed... and backfired miserably.
5. The turkish scouts didn't find the body of the king right after the battle because he drowned in a brook during the retreat. He fell off his horse while trying to cross the Csele and his heavy armor was his doom. Also, he wasn't a child. In 1526 he was already 20 years old.
6. Suleiman didn't want to belive that this was everything Hungary could muster. He awaited the arrival of the "main" force because he thought that it was merely the vanguard that he had just defeated. He kept his army on high alert for an entire day before he figured out what was really going on.
7. This may be a personal interpretation but the video implies that Suleiman captured Hungary right after the battle. This is false. The Turks merely sacked Buda and rampaged through Central Hungary before they left the country. Suleiman didn't return to capture the kingdom until exactly 15 years later. If you think I'm being poetic, I'm not. The battle of Mohács took place on 29th of August 1526. Buda fell to the Ottomans on the 29th of August 1541...
I realise that some things must be changed for the sake of the narrative but I still hope that this will reach you! Wonderful work you're doing, keep it up! :)
+Lockret You sir and/or madam deserve a thumbs up. As good as this series usually is when concerning Asian or western Europe topics, the research for eastern Europe seems to be, once again, lackluster...
MartinGreywolf I'll take sir, thank you very much :D Thanks for the compliment! They said that they change some things for the sake of consistent narrative flow and enjoyment so maybe some details fell victim to this. The research may not be lackluster, we won't know that until we reach the "lies" episode.
actually they did found the body of the little king :)
Umut umut Yeah... on their way out of the country... in october...
+Lockret He was still a boy. Even back then you would be seen by most other ruler as boy if you were not over 30.
Suleiman truly was a man of heart. Crying for the loss of an important person, such as the enemy's is something we rarely see in history.
Props for this guy.
+MrPlanets2 He could have also just chosen not to invade other countries with the explicit purpose of imposing his religion and rule over their populace. So if anything, he was a slightly softer warmonger than what was average.
I can agree with that.
At the time almost all of europe have similar intentions with ottomans , so I would say he's such great leader
he make me think of Salah Ad Din
Well according to his beliefs converting the christians would have save them from eternal hell, in his mind he was helping them
I think one for Mansa Musa would be fascinating.
I sometimes forget how war kept on changing with technology. Armor Plate and Spear's V.S. Gun's and Cloth.
Really does remind me of my Civilization campaign's.
+Nextgener war... war never changes
+Jim Tiberius until ghandi gets nukes and its no longer war....than he gets x-coms...then babylon builds the space ship
herobrinext9 Bethesda announces Fallout: New Delhi ;)
+Nextgener The thing that Civ never conveys and this channel doesn't go in depth enough to show; is that armor at the turn of conflict from sword to gun actually was semi effective. Guns weren't largely rifled or machined so bounced a lot in the tube reducing their speed. Against a piece of wedged armor, it can actually deflect these really mediocre guns. It's why the Hungarians got so far. It wasn't till guns gained enough piercing power to just slice through armor that it was discarded completely.
I lost it at Holy Hot Mess. XD
look up the holy roman empire
Makes me want to start an Ottoman game in Europa Universalis 4.
+GarlicPudding i stated one just before and lost my mind when i saw the first one lol
+GarlicPudding So long as you don't do it in Victoria 2, unless you want to be in perpetual debt to everyone.
I never played that game but the extra history videos give me an itch for Civilization, Age of Empires, and Rise of Nations.
@@Expax i tried both
suleiman and ibrahim : best bromance ever :D
+müge demirayak Yeah.. you know what happens later :D
Yeah! Bets bromance! Nothing could *ever* go wrong!
For those of us who know of the final fate of Ibrahim and Suleiman's friendship... this is heartbreaking :(
Yes he has ibrahim strangled, mustafa stranlged, bayezid strangled... Selim takes the throne and after Hurrem, Selims wife Nurbanu becomes queen.
God damn it, it's the 1520's and you're still depending on shock tactics, Hungary?
So it goes in war that old men play their games while young men die before their turn.
Kurt!?
+Samuel Wang war was always like that.
It was Walpole
+Ibnziyad Tariq
Persian war was not. In battle of Marathon, just about every able bodied Athenian citizen marched into the field, their commander, Miltiades, marched shoulder to shoulder with them.
In a true citizen army, everyone shares in decision making, responsibilities, and risks.
+Samuel Wang Lawrence of Arabia?
“No one will put you to death while I am sultan”
Kills him himself
The original bromance
I thought that was Gilgamesh and Enkidu?
“The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire “
@Heyward Shepherd nah
Ot was holly hot mes
The bromance is real.
+Martin Alonso Sulaiman executes Ibrahim
+Andrei Narciso #SpoilTheHistory
***** can't spoil something that happened 500 years ago :P
+Martin Alonso Frodó, te vagy az?
+wanadeena but, but still!! *shakes fist in anger*
Why do I have this sinking feeling that everything is about to start falling apart?
+damascus21 Because things are running really well right now. I think Suleiman actually didnt get any too serious problems during his reign, but I think the Ottos started losing right after it ended.
+Etropalker they started declining after 1683 but they were a rotting empire before that as well as soon as they stopped fighting backwords Africans and Asians and met with real power, the Habsburgs things changed alot for them.
Standard of every known empire
@@PaxiKaksi that's eurocentric
@@PaxiKaksi the root was after Suleiman passed away imo. Not many committed sultans after him. Shame he executed Mustafa
the holy roman empire was not holy, not roman, and not an empire. Such an ironic name isn't it.
Yep...
+GenoAronn
Just like the Federal Reserve. It isn't Federal and it doesn't have a reserve.
*Voltaire intensifies*
+George Robinson I sense there is a reference hidden somewhere
+GenoAronn not ironic
but a misnomer
The reflective portion of the series is captivating and very well written. What is history if not the recollection of the past of others? It just adds another pay to the story telling that helps greatly. Awesome work as usual guys!
I love how his Turban lights up when he's angry XD
I wish this show could be more frequent, but I understand the amount of effort that must go into these episodes. I shall eagerly and patiently await the next episode!
Knowing the history ahead of time makes it easier to catch the irony in the narrator's voice.
+Noah Wiener Oh, trust me, I don't really know what happens next, but it still drips with it.
Heck the fact they open up with the OLDER version of Suleiman tells you things are gonna go wrong.
These videos have better editing and pacing than Batman v Superman.
So does absolutely every video on RUclips. I still really love this series, I'm just saying Batman vs superman is a very low bar to shoot for.
Bc it's real story real men and real powers
I feel dread when Suleiman says that no one can harm you until I live.
Holy Hot Mess is probably the best thing I've heard all week
i loved the part where Suleiman said "it's campaignin' time" and campaigned all over the bad guys
I love how much they hug, it makes me soft 🥺
greatest bromance in history
This is such a coincidence actually. A few months ago, I started to read and study about Suleiman the Magnificent while watching other Extra History series and then lo and behold, a series on Suleiman this month. This is amazing. What references did you use for the series if I may ask?
Your writing just keeps getting better. It's like you read a boring book and narrate it like a poem.
I've heard this story so many times and it's still one of my favorite historic stories
Suleiman = Justinian Ibrahim= Belasarius Roxana = Theodora ^^
Didn't know sorry
👌
See what you think at the end;)
***** Don't forget the Franco-Ottoman Alliance, which was huge, as well as taking Baghdad. Justinian also never had to contend with a rival nearly as powerful as Charles V.
+kritonas dionysiou mean he was man who had his son strangled infront of him and Ibrahim will later meet the sword by his hands too ... He also in some records is have wanted the head of the Hungarian king decapitated and marched around Hungary , not exactly what you'd call a nice guy ....
Second vizier:can I be governor of Egypt.
Suleiman: ok
Second vizier: I here by found the sultanate of Egypt with myself as sultan.
Suleiman: wtf Ibrahim go deal with the Egyptians.
Ibrahim:sure.
Louis II was 20 at the time of the battle; hardly a child.
+Marconius yeah but kings usually succeeded around their mid 30s
A king could be inaugurated at age 14 without a regent
He was fairly young, especially for a king, no debate there. I was mostly making a criticism of his portrayal as what appeared to be a 10 year old boy.
Alexander the great conquered the majority of his empire before he was 18 XD
These episodes go too quickly, I think Walpole must be behind it...
+Flying Spectacles Yes it does feel rather short, but time does fly while having a good time.
Euan McQuade I live in the UK too :D
Euan McQuade Btw, have a Happy Easter.
Robert Walpole Hey Robert bby ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
6:26 riders shouting battle cries that Suleiman did,nt understand LOL funniest part
I was literrally sitting next to my ipad, refreshing the page just to be early and immediatly watch this episode
This story seems to happy to not have some horrible ending...
Pretty sure it wasn't called Petrovaradin(the fortress in Sofia), Petrovaradin which is in Novi Sad is part of Serbia (Vojvodina) which was then part of Hungary
What an awesome channel!!!! Why i didnt find it before? keep up the good work
just here to let you know mr. Extra Credits that you have a viewer from Hungary and im amazed by these presentations! Köszönöm = Thank you :)
Respect to Hungary from Turkey.
Thank you Extra Credits. Thank you for the awesome vids and the inspiration behind Game Theory / Film Theory!
+Z CCG what? they were the Inspiration behind GT? I didn't know :O
+gfrewqpoiu extra credits was one of the first major theory and game mechanics channel to go big, it's had its ups and downs, but still great content.
+gfrewqpoiu Yeah, MatPat said that he watched Extra Credits when EC was talking about games as a learning tool.
They brought the kid king to war? What did they think he would do, besides die?
+grfrjiglstan kill them with his squeaky voice?
+grfrjiglstan Well he was 20 at the time. So on hand hand calling him a child is a bit exaturated. On the other hand there were kings younger than him doing winning battles and inheriting kingdom throughout the medieval.
+grfrjiglstan *Hungarian here*
As it said in the video, the king didn't want to go, but a bunch of stupid nobles made him. Same with the army. There were supposed to be another 10,000 troops arriving from Transylvania, but the count there decided that he didn't really feel like coming.
The entire battle is rather famous in Hungarian history, because it really meant the defeat of Hungary. Though during the battle, there were many chances for the Hungarians to potentially be victorious, the leadership was divided, and all the wrong choices were made. It was just a giant mess really.
+grfrjiglstan History tells us, that when the King is on the fronline, the troops fight better! ..Oh wait thats from GoT...
owbu History tells us, that when you put your praetorian guard in just tunics instead offull armour they fight better.
Petrovaradin is in today's Novi Sad in Serbia, northwest of Belgrade, on the Danube. Not near Sofia where you placed it. 4:42
5:43 I REALLY FEEL BAD FOR THAT KID
Don't you?😢
7:51😱😱😭😭😭😭😭
he only wanted to kick him and his people out of their country and claim it as his own, he didn't want the poor kid to die :-((((
No
I love your extra history vids, keep em coming! The king of Hungary (Louis II) was 20 when he died, not a child in middle age reckoning. Despite Suleiman being a decent guy, their was no "oh the humanity!" moment when his body was discovered, especially since it was discovered by Hungarian knights. I really love your videos guys, keep doing them!
+Matthew Jay-Armstrong mean he was man who had his son strangled infront of him and Ibrahim will later meet the sword by his hands too ... He also in some records is have wanted the head of the Hungarian king decapitated and marched around Hungary , not exactly what you'd call a nice guy ....
+Lerzid Marino . Compare him to Rulers of the Time, that is what I meant
Could you make videos about The Great Northern war?
+c00kiestorm 7 Years War would be good too.
+Sioraf asNaCillini they pick the topic their patreon supporters vote for
+KEine Ahnung oh, ok.. Thanks for informing
Granted
Suleiman and Ibrahim. A historical bromance.
2:36 Looks to me like someone had been forgetting to make his captured provinces into Cores....
THIS BETTER NOT END WITH SOMTHING SAD YOU GUYS PUT ME THROUGH ENOUGH WITH JUSTINIAN I DONT NEED MORE SORROW
Hey, I know that this is not exactly relevant to this specific extra history, @Extra Credits, but Palmyra has been re-taken from IS! so that's some good news.
Matthew Aubry I don't know if there is one definitive article superior to any other, but googling palmyra and looking in the news would be a start if you want more news (because it's a very recent thing. for now, have some BBC
www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35898995
+WhimsyHeath This is good news! Palmyria was always my favorite civ in AoE1 :P
We all need a Ibrahim in our lives
Petrovaradin was not in Sofia but in city of Novi Sad or as Hungarians called it : Újvidék which is 80km north of Belgrade.
And once Austrian army took Petrovaradin Foretress back in 1687 and fortified it...it was never conquered again.
This dude seems like a absolute chad
He's a warmonger, but he totally feels bad about it you guys.
+I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter (#WTFU)
Just like Gandhi!
+I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter (#WTFU) Which, during those times, actually makes him a fairly decent leader.
+I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter (#WTFU)
yeah, just look how sorry he apparently was for having killed a child after invading a country and slaughtering thousands of infidels ; )
+M. Vipsanius Agrippa thats politics my friend. Still feeling the enemy is a further step than any "infidel" was in this time.
Mr. Gold
You equalize politics with war? Are you sure you're not Roman?
The Ottoman empire is by faaar one of my favorite empires but its really sad how people forget about it for. Thanks for making the!.
04:01 "Holly Hot Mess". Yes, that sums this state up.
Suleiman really was magniicent!Merciful to the knights of Rhodes and tolerable to religions.He is one of my favorite people in history as well as somebody I would like to take some lessons after.
Last time I was this early I couldn't think of a joke.
+Joe Kennedy Except you're not early. At all. This was uploaded on Patreon yesterday.
I will prefice this by saying that I absolutely adore Extra History. I have watched every episode, many of them multiple times. You thought me a lot about the parts of history that always interested me and even more about those that I knew little about.
This being said, I have to point out that Vienna has been in the same place for a long time and it is nowhere near the place where you drew it. I could more easily understand if you have missplaced, for example, Petrovaradin, which no longer exists, but c'mon guys: the capitol of Austria is not in Hungary. :)
8:02 You misspelled Constantinople.
+Elgar You misspelled Istanbul
Your Comment is 563 years late.
1984 is not a handbook Proof? It was not called constantinople during Ottomans. Some called it konstantiniyye but still it was istanbul.
+Umur YILDIZ The Turks themselves used both names.
Raikaria1 I see your point. Have a nice day you two.
when rewatching the events unfold then finishing an going back to the other, episodes an looking at all the other events its sad to see such a great man strive, find happiness an his true love, then slowly losing it all in the coming years one after the other it really breaks my heart when i see it, makes it more upsetting seeing such a story being told in a way just hits the heart strings.
Holy hot mess.... okey you guys are awesome XD
WHAT HIT HIS BREASTPLATE!!! this episode had me at the edge of my seat, great work!
+August Ross Mm. I sat there just waiting for the moment when he would look down and see an arrow jutting from his chest.
They keep talking about Ibrahim and how well Suleiman get a long with him and it just fills me with dread cause it feels like foreshadowing... (As person who knows nothing about this period)
Ibrahim is truly a good friend.
+TheLalchi Suleiman will kill him in the end :D
Morvampir Reyiz Yeah, i saw that. God damn it Suleiman.
+TheLalchi Suleiman kills his son too. Suleiman is such a serious man :)
Also Ibrahim could't get what he deserved all his life. His wife killed his own son by accident and currently according to a stupid tv series most of the people in Turkey thinks Ibrahim was a betrayor and an unimportant man.
History is such a bich :)
"Something hit his breastplate."
I kept waiting for that to be brought up again, but.. hmm... maybe next time
+Thorbjørn Steen Yeah, it kinda feels like that was important since it was pointed out explicitly. But we already know that it wasn't something (slowly) lethal, because this series started with Suleiman as an old man.
+Thorbjørn Steen
It is just a storyteler thing of those times.
Hungarians rushed as they knew only with the death of him could stop them. And it failed so bad, they could only throw one thing at them, then perish.
It is a bit over-compensating, but most of our novells and such are from the romantic era, (if interested, can even help oyu to some), but this is not really true.
They were so badly defeated, that hungarians count their demise from that date.
Wooot up just before work!
0:55
As someone who is very blatantly Polish, I wish I could be the queen of the Ottoman Empire.
The Quack Obama isn't the most powerful man in the world. The Ottoman Empire didn't have checks and balances.
+natoman123 spoilers?
THIS WAS GREAT, please cover more of this culture.
I really do think the Ottomans should be considered the Roman Empire's continuation. Aside from the religious changes (not the 1st time the state religion had changed) much had remained the same. Constantinople/Istanbul was still the capital, side from a few bits of North Africa the Ottomans had control of most of the Eastern Empire's holdings (a reversal of centuries of decline), the civil administration remained largely unchanged save for the inevitable advancements of time and aforementioned religious reforms, and the Sultan's evened viewed themselves cut from the same cloth as the Emperor's. In truth the 'Ottoman Empire' were simply an Islamic Roman dynasty rejected as such by Christian-centric historians.
+David Kelly To an extent you are right, at least in terms of the later Eastern Rome. Though the Ottoman Empires culture was far removed from the Greek/Mediterranean influenced roman culture that dominated The Roman Empire at the height of it's power before Christianity and the fall of the west
GepardenK As you say though the Greeks were far removed from the Latins who themselves were radically different than they had been before Christianity. They were still Romans though, a civilization that, depending on how you count, lasted 3k years WOULDN'T be the same.
+David Kelly The Ottomans did indeed view themselves as a continuation of the Roman Empire, at least as far as Mehmed II goes. He actually held the title Caesar of Rome!
***** That's my point. The 'Ottomans' are as the Byzantines were, non-existent things invented by Western historians not wanting to share the glory of Rome (never mind that they're the descendants of the barbarians that ruined it). An objective view of history either has Rome end when Christianity replaced Hellenism or when Atatürk deposed the last Osman (Ottoman) sultan. Which depends on if you define Rome as a cultural or political entity, the former excluding the Greeks and Christian Latins along with the Turks.
+David Kelly
There is really no argument for Ottomans being heirs of Rome other than territory.
The country that had probably the best claim was either the HRE(by Pope) or Russian Empire(by marriage and becoming the new center of orthodox(byzantine) christianity). Neither of those exist anymore.
Every time this ends I have something in my heart wanting MORE MORE NOW GIVE ME MORE NOW!!!!
love you guys keep up the good work
How about a Matthias Corvinus series after this?
being the history buff that I am "the holy hot mess" line made me laugh a bit more than I should.
Suleiman should've gone with humanist ideas to keep the rebellions from happening.
why bother humanist when you can take religious and bash the religion of peace into their heads
@Somali Kid Because religious ideas gives tolerance of the true faith which boosts happiness.
@Somali Kid You never heard of the game called "Europa Universalis IV", don't you?
Ne? Dünya hükümdarı muhteşem Süleyman'a karşı mı geliyorsun? Tez vakte kellesi vurula
This episode really reminds me of their Justinian series on the Byzantine Empire. Suleiman, Roxelana and Ibrahim trio match up to Justinian, Theodora and Belisarius. It kinds of reflects how the Ottoman Empire defeat and succeded the Byzantine.
"Sources indicate that Hurrem Sultan was originally from Ruthenia (now Ukraine), which was then part of the Polish Kingdom." -Wikipedia
Suleiman: Nobody Will kill you as long as i rule *Procedes to kill Ibrahim later*
Its quite funny how the relationship between Suleiman, roxelana and Ibrahim mirror Justinian,Theodora and Belisarius.
1:30 That foreshadowing hurt so much on my heart...
Roxelana (Roksolana) was in fact Ukrainian, not Polish, though back that time that part of Ukraine was under Polish reign. We have beautiful legends of her and her role in the life of the Emperor Suleiman. And even TV-series.
+moristar1101 I would not determine one's nationality by the place they are born, but by the state they are part of, by the language they speak and the culture they live in. And in this sense she was probably polish then.
(If that wasn't ukrainian territory culturally, that was only occupied for a short period) I don't know that.
But if I had to guess, this was not the case, since there was this west-relocation of poland after the world wars, where russia took polish land and drove them into former german territory instead. So I could imagine that this has something to do with the ukrainian and polish border changes aswell. Which then would mean that it was actually polish before.
But that is just a guess...
+moristar1101 Ah, thank you, i was going to point that out myself. She is an important part of our history and here she is suddenly Polish. No offence to bros from Poland, you guys are cool :)
Question if you don't mind was Roxleana a Jew since most Islamic historian think she's Jews ?
KEine Ahnung she was ethnically Ukrainian, as most in Western Ukraine were during Lutauen-Polish kingdom, which also included Belarus and Ukraine (both partially). People in Canada are formally under Queen, but you're not calling them British, right? Ukrainians lived there during Poland, Austria, Russia and Soviet - and still were Ukrainians.
i,310 it's hard to tell as a lot of jews lived in those territories along upper Polish class and lower rural Ukrainian class. She might be half-blood as she is portrayed to be redhaired, which is not very common among Ukrainians, so she might have some jewish, russin or russian blood in her. Or she might simply be red :)
thank you for a nother great episode
wait... what hit Suleiman's chest... I thought it was going to be like what happened with Admiral Yi... something pretty bad they'd notice later you can't just say something as vauge as "someTHING hit his breastplate" 'cause let's be honest this series and everything Extra Credits writes is incredibly well written, but a sentence like that adds nothing to the story unless it comes back later.
+HeeminGamin According to Wikipedia it was arrows.
it was probably just showing how close to him t he Hungarians came
Oh okay! I was wondering why that sentence was there, that actually explains it. (However I think the fact he had to pull his saber explained that adequately)
+HeeminGamin I also was curious about the fact how they mentioned Ibrahim to be a slave, yet at the same time was able to become grand vizier and marry into Suleiman's family. EC seems to be just a touch less concise than usual, which is still impeccable, but still.
+ZombieMonkey7
What's the problem with that? Did you not notice that he's best buds with the sultan?
literally ibrahim and suleiman live by the bro code. it's so great. homies help homies.
It feels like you're being rather biased against the Hungarian forces. While their strategy in the battle of Mohacs was nothing short of suicidal, it wasn't without a clear goal in mind: rush Suleiman and attempt to "decapitate" the enemy army, an understandable strategy for such an outnumbered, desperate force. And it seems like, despite it all, they still managed to get just THAT close to achieving their goal!
Instead of that sappy scene with Suleiman and the Hungarian king, I feel you really missed an opportunity by handwaving the rest Hungarian forces as "suicidal brutes that couldn't even come up with a decent strategy"...
+Guy Fawkes They're relying on sources from the winning side, though. Just like earlier, when we were told that the entire populations of Korea and Japan consisted of bumbling idiots, aside from the immaculately brilliant Admiral Yi.
"How could such devisions made of love be wrong?" They never should be man