Can It Be Saved? Junked Marine Diesel PT 2
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- Опубликовано: 10 ноя 2020
- a viewer dropped off this diesel powered marine gen set of unknown condition, in pt 1 it was seized to the point of needing to be pressed apart, now lets continue to see if it can be saved by looking into the rest of the parts.
Развлечения
I'm from italy. I live near the factory where this engine was made. Now they are part of Lombardini (kholer group). Here you can find all sort of parts for these engine. If you need something let me know, i can send them to you. The part store is only 5 minutes away from my house :)
Piston piston pin and rings sleeve exhaust valve and exhaust valve seat exhaust manifold are needed get prices for must've..oh and gasket set.
happy corona year 2021 in advance.
@@jacilynns6330 this will not be cheap😅😂
If he send me the engine tag with all the info about it and a list of spare parts, i will go to the parts store and check for availability and price
@@gabrieleolivieri2852 Thank you for being the potential Archangel for this project! I am amazed by the assisting and cooperative spirit demonstrated here; to bad we can't inoculate the rest of the world!
Come on buddy you can find rings and a piston let’s bring this old clacker back to life............everyone like this if you agree and want a part 3
Diesel engines with wet sleeves sometimes don't have oversized pistons available as the cost of the sleeve may be less than the cost of making and stocking oversized pistons and boring the cylinder.
Me too waiting for part 3 :-) Curious if he can make it run in the end. Great video, really great. See there are several other videos about restoration on his channel; lovely entertainment and very educational.
I don’t understand why there is not a part three to the build. You can get rings Somebody could Build you a piston the cylinder could be sleeved. I washed all your videos I don’t understand why this project never had a part three. It Hass to continue that just has to..
Part 3 ?! 😆 if it runs, it runs and starts crap and is on a fast track of destroying itself 😢
Ressurect that old Mustie 🙌🏼
Mechanic's Prayer
Lord, grant me the serenity to discard the things that cannot be repired,
The skill to repair the things that can
and the wisdom to know the differance
Amen.
Woodworkers Prayer
Lord give me the serenity to toss out the useless cutoffs, the motivation to build something with the useful cutoffs, and the wisdom to know the difference.
;)
Aameen
Two strikes does not make an out. Go for part 3, Mustie ... Go for Part 3!
Yes do it, mabee it will work
If you ever need valves ground just ship them to me and I’ll grind them. As for the valve seat a valve seat cutter should clean it up. Or ship the head to me as well and I’ll grind the valve seats as well.
If you remove the sharpie your seats need recutting.
Can you cast him a new piston and grind a few rings as well? We wanna see this thing run now!
@@datadavis that I cannot do but JonathanW probably could.
@@mjmcomputers ain't much jon can't do is there!
Including giving a machinist a brain hemorrhage
Been looking forward to pt2! If anyone can get it running again it would be you Mustie. 👍👍
This was part two.
Edit- somehow missed the word "been". My bad
@@aaronblair9583 I think he meant he was looking forward to this second part
Come on the guy in Vietnam would have this thing running in no time
Is it a no no the heat a piston Delusionals rings
"Those rings we as brittle as Betty White's back. "
Apologies to Derek from Vice Grip garage.
Pretty sure he would approve...
I've watched a giant amount of your videos and was just watching this one and thought how generous it is of you to shoot and post your projects and how fortunate we are to be able to watch. Thanks so much for these
being a old marine mechanic, i'm sure the exhaust elbow has rusted out allowing water to get in the exhaust side from the cooling side as it exits. this usually happens after it is shut down with no exhaust to blow the water out and it trikkles back past the ex valve.
Can that be repaired? Man that cylinder has a groove like the Grand Canyon. Fun project to watch, but it’s just a generator. There’s no buyers for it, if he puts much in it besides a gasket kit.
Yeah, that's my thought too.
@@breikowski running and working its gotta be at least 500 maybe to a sail boater way more
@@jordanlittle5391 yup, I agree. So, best case, he’s working for free. That’s if he can bore the cylinder out and press in a new sleeve. Did you see the groove in there? There’s no way a 20 over is going to clear that. At least he got a couple videos out if it before it goes back to the scrap pile.
@@breikowski like he said if you had a piston where the rings sat below that it would run otherwise the rings would catch and break
Someone is already looking through their stash to find a piston and rings lol. Thanks for another great video keep up the great work
This video inspired me to use a 20ton press to break a rusted in aluminium piston out of my 1941 single cylinder two stroke outboard engine. Cast head and barrel, no sleeve, and applying the pressure through the spark plug hole! The piston did not survive as expected but I have a spare. The barrel looks fine and after some honing I’m now rebuilding it.
I haven't seen one of those for a very long time. You have to be careful as DECCA and Marconi (LTD) used them with the generator to make the high voltages (1,000 to 2,000 Volts plus 480 V etc) for their marine radars. We gave up trying to find gasket kits for them and started using copper sheet to make our own. Cut it the same way I've seen you make the paper ones and heat them in the oven to soften them if you remove the head again..
Thanks for showing this video.
Kohler bought that company and supplies repair parts. Left a link in first video .
hay @K.D. Pearce you did not leave a link in the first video i just looked i did not see it. Come on help the guy out he don`t know where to look for thing sort of thing why not just post a link for it in this video for him 👍
RUclips probably removed the comment automatically because they are not too fond of people putting links in comments, and even less so telling you if they shadow removed your comments.
"Ruggerini Engines are now part of the Kohler Diesel engines family. The Ruggerini engine range now crosses over to incorporate the Kohler Diesel air cooled engine and Kohler Diesel water cooled engine range. Please refer to the Kohler Diesel page for more information on Kohler Diesel engines. All Ruggerini parts are fully interchangeable with Kohler Diesel."
I might be blind but I'm pretty sure there's no link here... I guess the guy above was right and it was deleted.
Thank god mustie didn't wait until next sunday, this is one of the first video's i've shown my mom and she loves it. Thank you mustie for the content, you've got another viewer.
Cool mom
That's one gnarly piston! I found this two part series to be one of your most intriguing uploads. Brilliant stuff.
I was hoping for a miracle, because that's what it would take for this one.
Thanks for the lesson, though. I learn so much from these videos !!
Busy watching some of your older videos and a new one pops up, my afternoon doesn't get better than this 👏
Quotes from a Mase manual: Repeated attempts at starting with
negative outcome may cause excess accumulation of water in the exhaust system with possible serious damage to the engine.
If it is difficult to start the engine, do not retry for too long without first having closed the seacock.
It happened to me😬
Yup, hydrolocked for sure.
Props to you! I was really pulling for you to get this going, and save it. You did everything possible!
It’s still good viewing for us, so thanks for taking us along 👍🏻👍🏻
New piston, rings valves and valve guides, re-cut the valve seats. It just depends how far you want to go and if it is really worth it. Great effort though Mustie, you went a lot further than most would have!
It is not worth the effort or cost.
@@simontay4851 If youve read how much he makes from his youtube channel this would be small change.
It's not just the 'how to' knowledge I appreciate, its also the 'its not worth it' wisdom. Its sometimes hard to know when to stop. Perhaps, one of your viewers has a set of those rings laying around their shop that they can donate. Can't hurt to ask. The older I get the more bits and pieces I seem to accumulate and often for machines long since gone.
I struggle with 'don't know when to stop' big time. It really can eat up your time and clutter up your life.
At the end Mustie shows that the piston is broken too.
Mustie, I was taught by on old master many years ago to make lapping compound using burnt wet and dry sand paper mixed with grease it is particularly handy when dealing with badly damaged or very hard valve seats as you can vary the grind by adding more burnt paper and using different grits...I highly recommend you try it.
...Musti, the thin gaskets at the base of the cylinder are for shimming the deck height ( compression height) of the piston. When I was in the engine parts industry we used a gasket profile catalogue from Payen. If we couldn't find what we needed we would photocopy the gasket sample and send it to Payen for identification. I have in the past unfrozen rings using a ring compressor and tapping around the outside with a small hammer. Nice job.
When I was a Marine Engineer we'd change the liners frequently on bored considerably larger than this. We'd use a two part spray process to check for small cracks. First spray was red and would be left for a while to soak into invisible cracks and the second spray can was white. After a short while any cracks would be easy to spot as the red would seep into the white from below and the cracks would be visible to the naked eye.
One tip when lapping valves, when getting close to done, write on the valve seat angle with sharpie all the way around. They if it is gone after another round of lapping, you know that the angles are matching.
Well, the angles shouldn't match perfectly, the way I learned is there should be a narrow band where they make contact, not the full surface. I looked at a performance Chev site and they were even saying 45 and 60 degrees (45 for the value, 60 for the seat).
But yeah, a sharpie, machinists ink, even quick dry krylon spray paint works too.....anything so you can see the seat line.....
he has done this in the past.
We used bluing(sic),but a sharpie will work
@@muskokamike127 Actually the seat should be cut on three angles and the valve on one if my memory serves me proper.
Honestly, you made it further than I ever thought you would! Amazed you even got some kind of seal on those valves!
You keep going despite the heart sinking discovery's.
The shop is looking much more homely now too. I missed the feel of your garage, but it's coming back now. Thanks.
Really great video Mustie!! It’s disappointing that you were not able to bring that generator back to life. Your insight and wisdom is so enjoyable to watch. Thank you.
I was really happy to see you flip the piston over when you were wire brushing, I was so afraid it would catch on the edge and RIP it out of your hands. Voice of experience here.
I have found that sometimes you need to soak stuck rings for days or even weeks for them to release. But the wait is worth it. What you have is a very unusual case of abuse. MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU FELLA. VF
with the top of the piston broken that top ring is a gonner no matter what. But it would be nice to see if it can be made to run again sucessfully
Mustie, your videos provide more comfort than you will probably ever know. Withal the crap going on in the country right now, it is so comforting to immerse myself into your world and forget about our troubles for a while. Thank you immensely. BTW the next time you come to visit your parents in FL you should schedule a meetup for your followers in FL. I would definitely drive the state to meet you.
Best video , content , presentation on the internet ,hands down.
Not just this episode , but consistently every video that you load up .
Well done Darren , your expertise ,humour ,and great personality shine like a beacon for all of us.
May you never change.
All the best from Scotland.
I believe that is a "Captain's Diesel" because it clearly went down with the ship. . . .
Looks like the water jacket on the exhaust manifold failed, and let the cooling water leak back into the cylinder. Happens a lot with marine engines when the exhaust manifolds aren't inspected/replaced on a regular basis.
I've made a head gasket from sheet lead. I cut all the holes and around the edges of of the water jacket holes and central bore, then I laid rings of small diameter solder. These weren't soldered to the sheet lead but just kept in place while fitting the head by 'sticking' the solder rings in place (Loctite or similar). The Loctite or whatever sole purpose being to keep the solder rings in place while re-fitting the gasket. Once the head is torqued down the 'rings' get crushed into the lead sheet.
This was on a Barn engine with much lower compression however.
Thanks for posting this even though it didn't get repaired. You did show a number of different ways to get frozen parts out and may actually help someone working on one of their own projects
UK lockdown has some compensations, I get to see Mustie's vid almost as soon as it's been posted !
I’m feeling your joy rob. mid day mustie, just marvellous
Hearing a lot about your lock down on the internet, m.s.m. nothing . Lots of B.S. going on here in the u.s. too. STAY WELL GUYS 🇺🇸
@@libertyman3729 are government hasn’t got a clue really but we must just ride it until someone see some sense lol. I’ve heard you guys are going though some B.S as well. good luck and stay safe 👊
Will it run?
Mustie: Hang on, let me hammer out the piston rings first.
Us: Oookaaaayyy..
I think we know where this is going.
Excellent SHOP...Well stocked!!! I am getting the impression you were/are NAVY...!!! MY DAD ALSO!!!
man I would have spent 20 minutes on this and thrown it out, no way I would have the skill to save this you have to admire how much you can learn from this.
On Mustie's improvised valve lapping compound. "It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again."
A noble effort but you can't win them all. Still, great to watch you try. Thank you Mustie1.
Thanks for a great series Mustie1! I see comments from others that show some promise for piston and rings, but as you said, the state of the rest of the machine is unknown. Thanks for another mid week treat, stay safe.
BTW you saved me some money today and a trip to a store plus taxi fare. I have a cheap water dispenser that's basically a plastic housing with a slotted column thing in the middle that pokes into a 5-gallon water bottle then a plastic tube on the inside that connects the column to a spigot, with spring steel clamps on each end and a plastic nut to hold the spigot on. Today it started leaking and dribbling water onto the table. First I determined that it was the dispenser that leaked, not the bottle. I was all set to go buy a replacement dispenser, then I thought of you and said to myself, "Let's see if I can fix it." It turned out that the plastic nut had worked its way loose so it was just finger tight. A couple of seconds of torquing it with a pair of pliers and no more dribbles!
A mid-week Mustie! Great!!! Cheers, Steve
Later: Too bad. Salt water is really going to do a number on most metals. Better luck next time Mustie. Cheers, Steve
A magnificent mid week mustie. Marvelous!
Hi ! I fix a lot of Riggerini motors. They ware a super engines miltipurpose in Italy. Very reliable and easy to repair. Sll the best from italy !
I am loving watching this, your tenacity is amazing. I really hope you get it going even just for RUclips. I think if you get it going your regulars should all send over £5 (or dollars). Complete hats off to you
This made my Wed.... Literally made my day! Actually had "check for marine diesel part 2" on my outlook calendar this morning!
Thanks!
Far too many reminders of dentistry in this video, but still great to follow your work, thanks!
Aluminum has greater Heat expansion than Steel, so if you want to extract a Steel Part out of an Aluminum Part just heat it up.
and if you want to extract an Aluminum Part out of a Steel part, cool it down with liquid nitrogen and the Aluminum will shrink more than the Steel. For example extracting the Piston out of the bore.
Thank you for being thorough brother, this helped me alot more than some would understand. Thank you.
As soon as the valve moves, you should tap it back and forth many times instead to tapping it out in the same direction, tapping it back and forth releases the broken rust so it can escape.
Musti,, this has been a very enjoyable video series! Not sure 🤔 why! Maybe we just enjoy watching you bust your Ass!!! You have taught me something on almost every video! Thank you ! GREAT JOB 👏!!!
In the UK there's an ebayer that makes piston rings to your specification, I would guess there's someone in the US doing the same. 3.150" is exactly 80mm, so there's likely a European or Japanese engine with a piston of the same dimensions.
A lot of the Ford cross flow and pre crossflow engines had an 80.97mm bore, no idea of the width of the rings.
But it has to be a DIESEL piston, not a petrol one
@@brianlynch994 I was referring to the rings, but from a quick surf it looks like the correct rings (and pistons) are available.
motorencenter de has pistons for the Ruggerini RF-80 with 80/80.5/81mm at € 57, the rings are about €15, a set of gaskets €28, but I dont't know if these will fit the RM-81
My dad's old hip roof tool box has a ridge reamer and a ring land cleaner in it. I didn't really know what I was doing with those tools in the sixties, but I think I do now.
Mustie starts up the cylinder hone, reverses direction of the tool, and goes full speed. Ear buds fly off my head as a bolt of high frequency lightning goes through my head, down my spine, out my exit hole, and leaves a burnt mark on my chair seat...learned again to ALWAYS have finger on volume knob while watching his videos...Haha!
Oh my gosh I asked for a part two just a few hours ago. What a timing.
Spin the crank with the drill, and see if you get any voltage generation ...
Cool idea only being a diesel engine it may require lower rpms to generate adequately
@@shaneharrison4775 an electric drill can give low rpm at a high tourque value if you set it to.
@@joshuamcpeek4708 yes I know
A diesel will not generate any spark as compression alone causes the explosion in the cylinder. .... No spark plug
@@dankeyes2669 they were referring to the generator coupled to the back of the engine
Mustie1, I have been around boats for a long time. A common issue with inboard cast iron engines are they rust out unless they are fresh water cooled with a heat exchanger and coolant. Your engine looks to be raw water cooled( plain old sea water) . So the first first piece to rust out is the exhaust manifold and riser. That can allow water to be dropped in from the exhaust manifold. But also the way that exhaust is cracked looks to me like it froze. That would also make it leak when thawing or after shutdown. I am not there to inspect it as well but it is a possibility that it was sunk in a boat which you have pointed out already. Another commenter from Italy left a comment that was very good. Lombardini engines are very reliable. I have worked around them. I believe that you are going to get it popping soon! Great content! Keep it coming please!
This was a really interesting one and I thoroughly enjoyed the 2 parts. It is a shame that those issues cropped up at the very end but absolutely nobody can fault you for trying. You gave it every possible chance and hey, sometimes things are too far gone and beyond economical repair.
YES MUSTIE!! My wish was answered :) thank you!
the mustie1 emblem should be a body hammer
Hay Mustie aint about time you invested in a valve seat cutter, when I retired 7 years ago I passed mine on to friend of my sons, as I recall it wasent expensive when I got it 15 years ago saved a lot of motors and cash back in the day.
Excellent video ! Thanks for the lesson. Keep up the good work.
You could take a running side shaft engine with a belt pulley and bolt the two engines together with a couple pieces of angle iron and stick a belt between the two engines and use the running engine to spin up what's left of the other one to see if the generator part works
“she’s gonna need a few pieces if it ever comes back together....”
Does not sound like an “I give up” to me! 😉
Hey Mustie, you are getting better at this. I loved the way you moved the camera to the other side when taking out the first valve. :D
What tenacity!! I would have given up at the frozen piston! Great work.
I think this engine spent some time in "Davey's Jones Locker"!
Sent you an email with some of the parts I dug up.
even found the old PNs for the RM81 and the full catalogue
took the liberty of sending mase/ruggerini an email CC'd you
I hope mustie sees this.
@@Mr.M1STER Mase got back to me, NO parts are available for these from their factory, they said to check the used market :(
It seems like enough people are behind you on this one! I'm just happily waiting for part 3!!
Always great to watch. I'll bet you got an A+ in wire wheel in shop class!!!
Anyone else's butt cinch up when he started tapping the rings with a punch ?? Lol
Mine did too... and I was yelling at the screen also.
You are my Favorite guy doing all these many engines ans everything cause that's what I did all my life 🤗 L o L
You are my Favorite guy doing all these many engines ans everything cause that's what I did all my life 🤗 L o L
Just a guess here...but I'm thinking that sometime after the Flintstones died their engine was buried and it began to fossilize. Many time periods came and went and then it was dug up and brought to you by an archeologist.
Thanks Musty for trying. I really know very little about diesel engines so I was SUPER interested in this video although you didn't get it running I learned a lot Thank You
Your choices of using only the minimal of new parts in order to put the subject @ hand back into it's serviceable working condition; stirs the fond memory chips of what my Dad would do for his friends who couldn't afford such things as complete sets of faulty parts & costly overhauls. For that to you both; I'm much obliged.
Hey Mustie, how bout some specs?? Like year make model , engine size or model number... I'd like to help out a bit and do a little searching myself and find some parts and info for you if possible... I've been working with big and small engines since I was 11 yrs old and now into my mid 50's have developed a decent system of locating new and used parts including obsolete... Any info would be good...
Just heat up the piston to free up the rings.
I had the same thought, but figured there must have been a reason he didn't try heat. I'm no mechanic, so I certainly trust Mustie1 more than my instincts. LOL
@@StevenIngram This is common practice. Usually works the first time, if not, let it cool, heat again. There's no need to use penetrating oils. Just heat under the piston and light tapping. If the rings do not free up after 2 heating cycles then the piston is junk, something must have happened to it other than crud.
Anyway, the piston is cracked. Toast.
Yeah, its junk. Siezed/broken rings, cracked piston, pitted valves that leak like a sieve. It'll need a new piston, new valves and new gasget + other parts, which aren't available any more Why is he even bothering with it. Back to the scrap metal pile
@@simontay4851 The valves can be ground in a machine, the seats can be recut, Im surprised he doesnt have a valve seat cutter set. Im quite sure an engineering shop can reference a piston which will fitor can be modified to fit and im quite sure someone will have gaskets for it.
Never thought it would get this far. You sir, do not back down from a fight. :)
Some typical reasons for Coolant in the Exhaust are: blown head gasket, cracked head, cracked block (or cylinder liner), or cracked EGR cooler. There are other ways for coolant to get through to the exhaust, but these are the most common. Like you said it could very well have been in a situation where the Exhaust had a back pressure issue and sucked up a bunch of water. I have been watching you videos for a long time, 1st time commenter though lol but I can say that I'm sure you will be able to get it fixed up. I am also a licensed, certified diesel mechanic if you ever want to chat about something or am curious on anything but for the majority you seem to do quite well with them anyway another great video and I can't wait for the next one!
"It's dead, Jim"
To be fair, that piston probably cracked when it went up against the 20 ton press.
The crack did not look fresh. I think this was the cause of the seizure.
Marine diesel generators have what is called a lift muffler. This muffler needs to lift the water, that was drawn into the engine by the raw water pump, up and out of the boat. If the engine does not start right away, and you continue to crank on it, the water (probably salt water)will back up into the cylinder head and seize up the engine. Usually bends a rod. There is a small drain on the muffler so the water can be drained, then you could very carefully crank on it again
I succeeded in removing some REALLY stuck rings by heating up the piston and rings and cooling the rings with rust remover, but don't breathe the vapor
I was going to say heat it up with the torches again. The rings are super hard spring steel and the piston is softer, they'll expand at different rates. That and soak them in CLR.
I've found over the years that really hard metals tend not to rust as much as the softer ones (more carbon I guess?)
@@muskokamike127 i heated the piston a lot but also a lot of times, and it got a bit more free every time
@@albaek790 yeah it's the movement that frees them up, kind of like my knees first thing in the morning lol
If you heat the rings too much you will remove the temper and they will be useless.
@@gordbaker896 yes of course they don't need to be that hot
Your air tool with wire brush sounds like a demented Sweep. British viewers of a certain age will know what I mean. 🐶🐼?
Well, he did have Harry's hand up his, er, bottom....
What was the name of that smug panda - annoying cow !
@@allthegearnoidea6752 That was Soo, I think
@@allthegearnoidea6752 Sooty and Sweep, a Panda called Soo, and little Cousin Scampi too... :P
Sue, she's got it! 🤟
Looks a great deal like the internals of Hatz Diesel engines I used to work on in the military. Good luck
I've got one of those slotted screw starters. I had it in my toolbox for decades before I learned from this channel what it's used for.
If you simply google Ruggerini you come up with a source for parts manuals and what appears to be several sources of parts. Unfortunately on part 1 I couldn’t make out the motor type on the engine label.
Looks like RM81
Lombardi was an industrial diesel mfg in Italy. Was recently taken over by Kohler.
tell us some more info of the engine so we can search for parts.
Ruggerini diesel seems to be part of Lombardini / Kohler these days. There should be parts available. A new sleeve and piston kit would be awesome for this build.
Mustie, make a brass horseshoe to insert into valve spring compressor for those valves that don't enough clearance. Works really well for me. GREAT VIDEOS!!!!!
Ooooo pleeeeeese get this running Mustie. Dont leave us hanging! There must be rings available on the Internet surely.....
part 3? do not leave us in suspense it is not fair
It's dead Jim. Heck of a try though. I wonder if the crack in the piston happened at the press. Not that anything could have been done to prevent it.
since alloy ( piston) expands faster that iron (cylinder) heating it would make it tighter... freezing might have helped free it? especially if one had liquid nitrogen around :)
I found you a week ago I do small engine and motorcycle repair I like your videos keep it up
I'll go for option #2, the boat being laying in water and salt water getting up the exhaust. As intake valve was in a way more better condition. Thanks for the videos as usual!
Hastings...where you got the rings for the Reo ( my recommendation)...they have rings for this
Looks like from comments, you got parts source, friends from the factory, & a banker. Now you have no excuse. Rebuild it.🗜 🎥
dam right rebuild it
Reread that thread about the parts source. It fizzled up.
Looks like it could possibly have a piston and rings from another diesel engine such as the yanmar f6e, ts70, or ts80 retrofit into it the rings appear to be for the same bore you would need to know pin bore center to crown height, pin bore and cc's of the dish to know what would work or be modified to work and you could always have a new liner made and placed into the jug
Exhaust manifold was, what looked like, failed from corrosion, so, if the outside was that bad, it is entirely possible to have a pin hole or crack in the casting toward the exhaust passage. Looks like it is raw water cooled, so sea water would go right into the cylinder. In the stuff I saw at Cummins, the early non keel cooled engines had this type of failure often in the exhaust manifolds
The fail is a win. When things work great, super duper. But when things go wrong, you kinda learn more, if you know what to look for.
I agree mustie1 that piston look to be in bad shape.