Hi Tim. Phil Fehring here. The engineer in me, couldn't let this pass. There's a slight discrepancy, in your mans interpretation of meter (meters) of head. Meter of head is actually a rating of pressure. Not how high you can blow a stream of water into the air. That's a factor of pressure, flow rate and orifice size. For instance, if you had the Yarra Valley's highest water tank at 62 meters, the weight of the water at ground level would be 88 p.s.i. 24 meters as per the first cheap pump only equates to 34 p.s.i. Its a very old measure of pressure, along with old anglo units like "inches of mercury". Unless your the MFB, your not shooting water 62 metres into the air. Once upon a time it was "feet head". Any doubts just google conversion of metres head to p,s.i, MPa, pascal etc. If I was picking a fire pump, I'd be looking at flow, gallons / litres per minute. How much water you can dump in a given time. As always. My respect and best wishes. Phil.
So your happy to prescribe to the the theory that that pump can spray 62 meters ? An AFL football oval cant be shorter than 135m. So you can shoot a water goal from beyond the centre circle, to past the goal line? Tell that to a fire fighter. For those following along TDH means Total Dynamic Head, which I explained 3 days ago. The head pressure if you were pushing water up hill to say a stock trough.
@@erikhouweling1552 For those following, T,D,H would be Total Dynamic Head, Head/ meter's as I surely mentioned on my very first post in this thread., That 88 @ 34 P.S.I thing
Great video Tim. Would love to see a follow up on bringing a fire trailer together with an IBC, the various fittings required, and how to prime your pump. I have been through several iterations of fire trailers and even managed to lose one along with the car towing it in the black summer fires (spare fuel container on the trailer did not help). My final iteration had a hose reel, cam lock suction hoses, CFA quick fill fittings on our tanks and two additional flat hoses all plumbed into the pump manifold. I googled the daylights out of it and did not find a good how-to video so I think it's a good candidate for your excellent channel :-)
Always run a return line from your pump to the tank with a valve on it, this is so that when the pump is running without you spraying water there is still water circulating through the pump, otherwise the water in the manifold will boil and destroy the pump.
These are an essential item that can be easily over looked on the farm, or any rural home. I like how you had a segment on service & maintenance as well… Another great video Tim , well done…😃👍
I am starting to think that you must be psychic Tim. It is uncanny how many times I have been pondering something for the farm when up you pop with a comprehensive segment on just that thing! Thank you! 🙏🏼
Excellent video. Used our Honda pump in an emergency a week after purchase. Forgot there was as On Off switch. A lesson learned in the hurry of set up.
Great and informative video Tim I've got my own fire trailer consisting of 2 hoses,400 litre tank and a 4 stroke 1.6 hp 1.0kw fire pump it has a bit of grunt in it with a max head of 22 meters and a flow rate of 120 litres per minute so perfect set up for grass fires and doing asset protection during a major fire plus my water supply lasts about 10 or so minutes using both lines and about 15 with a single line
Good vid Tim. I would suggest if you choose a hose reel (especially 36m long) that you have a minimum 2 outlet pump. A long hose like that (which is probably 3/4 " is going to greatly reduce the performance of the pump and slow down jobs that are basic water transfer, such as filling a stock trough. Not sure I agree with the description of " head" being how high it will spray.
I have a cheap diesel pump, not as portable being on a modified metal IBC pallet which acts as transportable pump and shed. I can leave the fuel in it for 50 years and I reckon it would start first go. Another top tip is to put a check valve on the end of your suction line, you wont lose prime and you can jiggle the hose to prime it in the first place, just like those marble fuel siphons.
G'day Tim its me again 😋just gone out and ordered a 7.5 hp twin impeller honda 4 stroke fire pump from DMC mowers Australia it has 3 top outlets the 2'' outlet will be reduced down to a 1'' for a pressure relief tap and I've also started phasing out nut/tail hose fittings that are very prone to cross threading/leaks for Camlocks which are easier attach/detach will most likely look at replacing the nut/tail fittings on my tank/pump delivery line over to camlock as well, A piece of advice if you wanna control flow rate coming out of your 19mm hose get a nozzle that has flow rate control dial on it
@@FarmLearningTim my current setup consists of 2 outlets running off a 1.6hp single impeller but that will change tomorrow as the local engineering business is installing my new pump onto the tank and I've got a lever control nozzle coming in the mail, before next fire season happens it will be fully camlock fitted
Regarding maintenance, I have had a lawn mower with a similar carburetor system that I ran completely empty by turning off the fuel tap. I still had trouble starting it up again after not using it for a long time. Had to pull the carburetor apart and gave it a good clean before it ran again.
A tip for non mechanically minded people, If you have to take the carb / throttle linkage or tank off. Take pictures of the springs and linkage rods as there are several holes to choose from when you go to re assemble everything.
I've been driving around day thinking I've left out the most important aspect of meter / head. Its actually a true number of pressure, Any pump, fire or other wise. If you were pumping water up hill, say to a stock trough. You need go know that the pump is capable. Higher the head distance, the more P.S.I You need
i'm going to get on my high horse here about my own experience with a bushfire. i was at kelmscott, wa when the bushfire happened in 2011. anyone in a bushfire risk area needs to have only brass hose fittings. i kept breaking plastic fittings trying to get a few extra centimetres out of the hose to extinguish that burning stump. get rid of evaporative air conditioners. they were the reason why a house burned when the two either side did not. i remembered a segment on that beyond 2000 tv show about fireys in california using a finely crushed version of the same polymer used in disposable nappies and water retention crystals for gardens. i wrote to the then minister for fire and emergency services who passed my letter on to the bureaucrat heading the department who fobbed me off claiming it was unsuitable because it hadnt been tested and had no accreditation. what bullshit. the stuff is used close to babies bums and in peoples vegie gardens. it would nearly certainly be suitable for aircraft fires too with no risk of groundwater contamination. furthermore, i saw a small container of some sort of fire retardent in a small box with a truly ridiculous price at a local small motors dealer. i suspect it was the same stuff. tim, why dont you look into this matter.
Regarding maintenance, I'd also suggest draining the impeller housing via the plug if not using the pump regularly, its surprising how quickly water which is less than 'perfect' will corrode the cast alloy. Also, ensure you have a good suction strainer if sucking from dams etc as small stones will quickly block the flutes in the impeller greatly reducing capacity
It should be noted that the max - pressure is at stall pressure, the maximum pressure the impeller can impart, when you have the trigger / hose off Engineers describe that as dead head pressure. Dual impeller pumps will have a higher head pressure. Depends is you are washing a car, or putting out a fire. Quantity is the key.
Thanks for the video Tim, just a bit of a correction - head isnt how high it will spray, its how high it will lift in a hose/pipe less friction losses at a given flow rate as per pump curve (edit: just saw the comment below, must be an engineer thing..)
I’ll put it in the memory bank. I’m no expert but seem to remember the maximum draw of pump’s being about 9m that’s why in the solar powered pump video last year we used a submersible pump in the dam. Pumps can push, can’t lift.
Two 15 litre water containers and a funnel is my stand by and a one way valve at the end of the suction hose helps if permanent. Philmac have some good videos on this very issue.
Numbers .. 1Bar = 10m water colum 7bar 70m throw in theory.. there are presiur loss In too small and too long hoses.. I prefer 2" 50m max hosez venturi nossel then you only loose 0.5bar so 60m throw.. bur flow rated nossels if pump give 400L its @7 bar.. SO to keep Max pressiur use 150l nossel.. Kmow your pump.. buy Thing who match.. why 150 not 200l .. presiur..and trowh lenght.. 50l more.. yes but 400l @min uses 1000l In 2.5min. 300l @ 3.5min you need you wagon with 5000l to get In plase With 1 50m hose 2" and a 300l venturi ... thats 600l/min 60m Head you can lay down .. DO you know how big a fier you can stop .. You got water to 5 min with 6x1000L. 5min is a life time.. you can hawe smaller hose reelt to grassat fier Think like this 150l nossels 300l nossels 50m 2"/3" hose is stationary Hose reelt is brush/ grass fier... you need big tools to big jobs.. Small tool to small jobs.. PERIOD Fier .. time up sec. horisontale minuts. down houres vind helps.. Please do not be cheape skate.. this culd save your life..
1. I GOT A RUULE.. TOO MUTCH OF EVERYTHING IS JUST ENOUGH.... Becaus.. you Can't afford not to put enough water On any fier.. the more water more hosez The faster and less damage fier does.. High presiur high wolume pump 2"/3" inlet 7Bar 400L min .. 2 x 1.5 50m slanger 2x wentury nossels 1/2hose reelt ventrikel nossels Watch water flow on nossels on 1.5" use 150l/m On hose reel use 50/70l/m Hawe 4 or more 1000l tanks.. 1 or 2 fast respons tendens.. 1 or 2 wagon with 5 x1000 water.. x high L /3" to fill all tanks.. This is money wall spent.. And the more water you douse out The faster you are finishen.
Hi Tim. Phil Fehring here. The engineer in me, couldn't let this pass. There's a slight discrepancy, in your mans interpretation of meter (meters) of head. Meter of head is actually a rating of pressure. Not how high you can blow a stream of water into the air. That's a factor of pressure, flow rate and orifice size. For instance, if you had the Yarra Valley's highest water tank at 62 meters, the weight of the water at ground level would be 88 p.s.i. 24 meters as per the first cheap pump only equates to 34 p.s.i.
Its a very old measure of pressure, along with old anglo units like "inches of mercury". Unless your the MFB, your not shooting water 62 metres into the air. Once upon a time it was "feet head". Any doubts just google conversion of metres head to p,s.i, MPa, pascal etc.
If I was picking a fire pump, I'd be looking at flow, gallons / litres per minute. How much water you can dump in a given time.
As always. My respect and best wishes. Phil.
So your happy to prescribe to the the theory that that pump can spray 62 meters ? An AFL football oval cant be shorter than 135m. So you can shoot a water goal from beyond the centre circle, to past the goal line? Tell that to a fire fighter. For those following along TDH means Total Dynamic Head, which I explained 3 days ago. The head pressure if you were pushing water up hill to say a stock trough.
@@erikhouweling1552 For those following, T,D,H would be Total Dynamic Head, Head/ meter's as I surely mentioned on my very first post in this thread., That 88 @ 34 P.S.I thing
Great video Tim. Would love to see a follow up on bringing a fire trailer together with an IBC, the various fittings required, and how to prime your pump. I have been through several iterations of fire trailers and even managed to lose one along with the car towing it in the black summer fires (spare fuel container on the trailer did not help). My final iteration had a hose reel, cam lock suction hoses, CFA quick fill fittings on our tanks and two additional flat hoses all plumbed into the pump manifold. I googled the daylights out of it and did not find a good how-to video so I think it's a good candidate for your excellent channel :-)
Always run a return line from your pump to the tank with a valve on it, this is so that when the pump is running without you spraying water there is still water circulating through the pump, otherwise the water in the manifold will boil and destroy the pump.
Would like to see a video on fittings and setup
These are an essential item that can be easily over looked on the farm, or any rural home.
I like how you had a segment on service & maintenance as well… Another great video Tim , well done…😃👍
I am starting to think that you must be psychic Tim. It is uncanny how many times I have been pondering something for the farm when up you pop with a comprehensive segment on just that thing! Thank you! 🙏🏼
Excellent video. Used our Honda pump in an emergency a week after purchase. Forgot there was as On Off switch. A lesson learned in the hurry of set up.
Great and informative video Tim I've got my own fire trailer consisting of 2 hoses,400 litre tank and a 4 stroke 1.6 hp 1.0kw fire pump it has a bit of grunt in it with a max head of 22 meters and a flow rate of 120 litres per minute so perfect set up for grass fires and doing asset protection during a major fire plus my water supply lasts about 10 or so minutes using both lines and about 15 with a single line
As always Tim, amazing information, so useful.
Good vid Tim.
I would suggest if you choose a hose reel (especially 36m long) that you have a minimum 2 outlet pump.
A long hose like that (which is probably 3/4 " is going to greatly reduce the performance of the pump and slow down jobs that are basic water transfer, such as filling a stock trough.
Not sure I agree with the description of " head" being how high it will spray.
To convert head to psi multiply by about 1.4 it does affect how high the water can be pushed from pump, but only loosely you are totally correct.
Agree on the head numbers...head is how high the pump is capable of pushing water up a pipe...that much different that spraying water into the air
I have a cheap diesel pump, not as portable being on a modified metal IBC pallet which acts as transportable pump and shed. I can leave the fuel in it for 50 years and I reckon it would start first go. Another top tip is to put a check valve on the end of your suction line, you wont lose prime and you can jiggle the hose to prime it in the first place, just like those marble fuel siphons.
Outstanding Video mate 👍👍👍👍
G'day Tim its me again 😋just gone out and ordered a 7.5 hp twin impeller honda 4 stroke fire pump from DMC mowers Australia it has 3 top outlets the 2'' outlet will be reduced down to a 1'' for a pressure relief tap and I've also started phasing out nut/tail hose fittings that are very prone to cross threading/leaks for Camlocks which are easier attach/detach will most likely look at replacing the nut/tail fittings on my tank/pump delivery line over to camlock as well, A piece of advice if you wanna control flow rate coming out of your 19mm hose get a nozzle that has flow rate control dial on it
Onya mate. Sounds like a ripper setup
@@FarmLearningTim my current setup consists of 2 outlets running off a 1.6hp single impeller but that will change tomorrow as the local engineering business is installing my new pump onto the tank and I've got a lever control nozzle coming in the mail, before next fire season happens it will be fully camlock fitted
Regarding maintenance, I have had a lawn mower with a similar carburetor system that I ran completely empty by turning off the fuel tap. I still had trouble starting it up again after not using it for a long time. Had to pull the carburetor apart and gave it a good clean before it ran again.
For a critical application like firefighting, it's definitely worth the extra to get a genuine Honda motor rather than a chinesium clone.
A tip for non mechanically minded people, If you have to take the carb / throttle linkage or tank off. Take pictures of the springs and linkage rods as there are several holes to choose from when you go to re assemble everything.
Great tip!
I've been driving around day thinking I've left out the most important aspect of meter / head. Its actually a true number of pressure, Any pump, fire or other wise. If you were pumping water up hill, say to a stock trough. You need go know that the pump is capable. Higher the head distance, the more P.S.I You need
i'm going to get on my high horse here about my own experience with a bushfire. i was at kelmscott, wa when the bushfire happened in 2011. anyone in a bushfire risk area needs to have only brass hose fittings. i kept breaking plastic fittings trying to get a few extra centimetres out of the hose to extinguish that burning stump. get rid of evaporative air conditioners. they were the reason why a house burned when the two either side did not. i remembered a segment on that beyond 2000 tv show about fireys in california using a finely crushed version of the same polymer used in disposable nappies and water retention crystals for gardens. i wrote to the then minister for fire and emergency services who passed my letter on to the bureaucrat heading the department who fobbed me off claiming it was unsuitable because it hadnt been tested and had no accreditation. what bullshit. the stuff is used close to babies bums and in peoples vegie gardens. it would nearly certainly be suitable for aircraft fires too with no risk of groundwater contamination. furthermore, i saw a small container of some sort of fire retardent in a small box with a truly ridiculous price at a local small motors dealer. i suspect it was the same stuff. tim, why dont you look into this matter.
Great video.
Regarding maintenance, I'd also suggest draining the impeller housing via the plug if not using the pump regularly, its surprising how quickly water which is less than 'perfect' will corrode the cast alloy. Also, ensure you have a good suction strainer if sucking from dams etc as small stones will quickly block the flutes in the impeller greatly reducing capacity
It should be noted that the max - pressure is at stall pressure, the maximum pressure the impeller can impart, when you have the trigger / hose off Engineers describe that as dead head pressure. Dual impeller pumps will have a higher head pressure. Depends is you are washing a car, or putting out a fire. Quantity is the key.
Thanks for the video Tim, just a bit of a correction - head isnt how high it will spray, its how high it will lift in a hose/pipe less friction losses at a given flow rate as per pump curve (edit: just saw the comment below, must be an engineer thing..)
Yeah. Tried to KISS with the explanation….. I’ll try to expand if I get a chance to do a follow up video….
👍👍👍.
Excellent.
Do you think you could look at pumping from a dam where the inlet line needs to be greater than 7 metres.
Cheers
I’ll put it in the memory bank. I’m no expert but seem to remember the maximum draw of pump’s being about 9m that’s why in the solar powered pump video last year we used a submersible pump in the dam. Pumps can push, can’t lift.
Thanks, most appreciated. Shall also have a look at the submersible pump vid.
Be interesting in how to prime a pump. Especially with a long inlet
Two 15 litre water containers and a funnel is my stand by and a one way valve at the end of the suction hose helps if permanent. Philmac have some good videos on this very issue.
Is there any good electric pump for firefighting?
In a bushfire usually the power lines go down so you have no access to electricity. That's why they are all diesel pumps.
Numbers .. 1Bar = 10m water colum
7bar 70m throw in theory.. there are presiur loss
In too small and too long hoses.. I prefer 2" 50m max hosez venturi nossel then you only loose 0.5bar so 60m throw.. bur flow rated nossels if pump give 400L its @7 bar.. SO to keep Max pressiur use 150l nossel..
Kmow your pump.. buy Thing who match.. why 150 not 200l .. presiur..and trowh lenght.. 50l more.. yes but 400l @min uses 1000l
In 2.5min. 300l @ 3.5min you need you wagon with 5000l to get In plase
With 1 50m hose 2" and a 300l venturi ... thats 600l/min 60m Head you can lay down .. DO you know how big a fier you can stop ..
You got water to 5 min with 6x1000L.
5min is a life time.. you can hawe smaller hose reelt to grassat fier
Think like this 150l nossels 300l nossels 50m 2"/3" hose is stationary
Hose reelt is brush/ grass fier... you need big tools to big jobs..
Small tool to small jobs.. PERIOD
Fier .. time up sec. horisontale minuts. down houres vind helps..
Please do not be cheape skate.. this culd save your life..
1. I GOT A RUULE..
TOO MUTCH OF EVERYTHING
IS JUST ENOUGH.... Becaus.. you
Can't afford not to put enough water
On any fier.. the more water more hosez
The faster and less damage fier does..
High presiur high wolume pump
2"/3" inlet 7Bar 400L min .. 2 x 1.5 50m slanger
2x wentury nossels 1/2hose reelt ventrikel nossels
Watch water flow on nossels on 1.5" use 150l/m
On hose reel use 50/70l/m
Hawe 4 or more 1000l tanks..
1 or 2 fast respons tendens..
1 or 2 wagon with 5 x1000 water.. x high L /3" to fill all tanks..
This is money wall spent.. And the more water you douse out
The faster you are finishen.
Promo'SM 💪