POWER ATTACKS! useless or devastating?
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2024
- Let's put POWER ATTACKS to the test!
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It depends what color you glow when you’re performing the attack
And how sharp your hammer is.
I tried to see what I glowed when I did a power attack, but all that showed up was green stink lines so... What do I do with that?
@@Kio_Kurashiah yes... I must sharpen my hammer from green sharpness to blue sharpness
Also which stance are you in. Alas, it's very important which color the flames on your shoulders are.
Pink is fast.
Orange/yellow is strong.
Blue is balanced.
And white... well...
@@92edoy The dragon has awakened...as long as you keep that heat meter up.
You guys forgot to slam your weapons into the ground. Everyone knows you can knock your opponent back with the shockwaves.
More of a POWER COMBO instead of a Power Attack.
Also CHARGE ATTACKS, which aren't much in fighters since they start in melee range.
You actually could do so if you swing your weapon hard enough to generate a shockwave. We squishy humans can't do that but if say your character is a god or demi god they'd be more than capable of doing it.
@@rojack79er If one could afford some heavy equipment, that would be fun to test. Have something like a massive, industrial pile driver slam into the ground and see how nearby test dummies hold up.
@@Señor-Donjusticia not going to lie I'd love to try that out.
@@rojack79er Yeah, example many mining machines. Power like that.
Guess thats why Dnd power attacks have a "to hit" penalty. Overswing, overcommitment and telegraphing.
Unless you go for an übercharger build, then you just pay in AC (and AC is meaningless when you make multiple attacks, all with 2d6+60 or more damage as a baseline)
In my D&D games we never did power attacks. We had called shots. A -2 or -4 to hit.
A 20 roll to hit was double damage. Thus can be our power swing.
Nothing in Dnd makes sense in reality (not talking about the obvious like magic) it's a game, mechanics and fun are the only logical explanations.
@@snatchy9837 The mechanics of a roleplaying game (while not entirely canon) are rooted in reality for the purposes of immersion, that is the whole point.
A 'to hit' penalty means that the attack is less likely to hit which is entirely realistic.
@@gerald2508 it does a poor job then, I play 5E and almost nothing is even close to "realistic", even in older editions as well.
When I started watching your channel, you were just sitting in a chair with like 3 swords
Now i'm watching duels in front of a friggin castle
Hats off Shad, I am flabbergasted at how much progress youve made on this show 😂
Same. Don't you love to see some youtubers grow?
I consider a power attack to be a specific choice. Least from my time with friends beating each other with those overpriced lightsabers. Specifically. I'm either attacking them, or making the conscious choice of, no. I'm going to smash directly through their guard or block. Rather than attempt to go around it or make an opening. Sometimes you choose to just win via brute force, and that moment, is a power attack.
that
Exaclty. I've seen Skal demonstrate this in some of his vids too, where a strong enough blow would just crush through a block.
It makes me happy seeing Shad join in throughout these videos, although I pray for his health considering how hard this activity would be to him.
Maybe it's an AI stunt double!
First I think they should have tested if "Power Attacks" had more energy than a normal overhead swing.
I don't think he's dumb enough to continue if it's hurting him. If anything having Nate and Tyranth here made it so he could participate but still make the video, rather than doing it all by himself which would have been much more of a struggle.
@@BobT36
Tyranth and Nate bring so much to the channel.
What’s wrong with shad?
Good discussion, but you forgot the most important question: what about dragons?
Do power attacks work better against dragons? Are dragons more likely to get away with them? WE NEED TO KNOW!
depends on which dragons you speak of.
to clarify, depends on the world the dragon inhabits: D&D, The Witcher, fairy tales, our own, etc.
I feel like dragons wouldn't need a power attack to just crush you instantly
@@ironencepersonal9634 he refer to hitting a dragon with a power attack, not the other way around.
@@jacktheomnithere2127 There are two questions, he is discussing the second.
@@ironencepersonal9634 But what if you have some magic that allows you to root your shield/armour to the ground and the strength of a bear (or you were a giant).
The dragon would need more power in its attacks.
Depends on how much you charge them before releasing.
No, it's how fast you hitt the butten
How many times you spam the button during the animation
I'd define a power attack as an attack more powerful than the average attack you can perform in good form.
I think power attacks are best for guard breaks, whether armor or a very defensive stance.
Agreed. I feel like a power attack is one meant to try and overcome a guard with excessive force and speed, hoping to blow right through it. Like I know you're going to block but I'm going to put so much into it hopefully I break your block and still connect. Though I'm not sure it's really something you can do with larp swords......they're just too able to cushion energy transfer as that's what they were designed for.
Good point, but I'm concerned a skilled opponent will take advantage of the time I need to windup for a power attack, and hit (and kill) me before I can launch the attack.
You don't want to aim your power attack at the opponent's body. You'd want to aim your power attack at their guard. For example, when someone is holding their sword up, a powerful swing can knock the sword down, far enough that your sword tip could strike the head. Hitting their sword also reduce the chance of them giving a counter strike. So the way I see it is to probe your opponent with a few regular strikes, leading them to a hard guard position that make them less mobilized, then give them a power strike. It certainly needs some practice to transit well between the two.
@@longtsun8286 which is why you only use it on a defensive stance, and even better if you have already forced them to only beable to guard frantically. Now, if the opponent is deliberately just waiting for an opening, you're screwed.
Yea, or attacking so hard you push through their guard and hit them anyway because you are a main character and much stronger than a random npc with a sword. I think a lot of more modern games do a reasonable job at portraying the downsides of their more wild power attacks by giving them slow recoveries that bosses punish you if you don't think about when you can use them. They also do a pretty decent job a lot of the time of making power attacks more or less useful for different weapons and movesets.
I think power attacks work in something like the Monster Hunter setting, where often an opening for a power attack is gained because another member of your team is drawing the monster's attacks, so you have the time you need for a power attack. That's kind of how it turns out in gameplay as well. Also, given how huge some of these monsters are, you'd need some intense power attacks to ensure your hit even gets through their hide to damage bones and organs.
You may be very much right.
There was a battle of Visby (1361), from which we have body remnants, and wound analysis. Generally, wounds are divided in two categories: light, multiple wounds and terrible wounds like skull cleaved in half; man, taking a warhammer to a face; two legs hacked off with one swing of pollaxe. The main theory on this is that warriors were fighting in teams or pairs: some were distracting the opponent, possibly making light wounds, while others dealt really heavy blows to utterly destroy an enemy.
I ❤MH
@@dilen754
Chivalry 2 is probably a better explainition just for demonstration lol. a person distracts well another comes up from behind with a heavy attack that can kill with 1 shot alot of the time
Nate's defensive moves are impressive. It seems top heavy weapons benefit from power strikes but not balanced ones. Great episode!
Top-heavy weapons benefit more as they multiply the force put into more, which results in more gain.
However, balanced ones also do benefit. It's just that most balanced ones usually are just cutting or thrusting weapons, for which it often either is an overkill (against unarmored enemy) or still not enough to matter (heavily armored enemy). You can only really see a difference against an enemy that is somewhat armored, where the extra power can be the difference between it just hurting and it breaking some bones. Cause as proved in this and the other video...whether you actually cut through armor made from some fiber is more about the weapons sharpness than strength used.
That is the difference between games and reality. If you played a game in which a single strike took down the enemies HP down to zero, you wouldn't be using any power attacks there either, which is why in some games, power attacks primary purpose is guard-breaking rather than greater damage. Because, really, once a strike is at a lethal level, excess damage is just a waste of strength.
@@kikixchannela more general use for all weapons is it can use it as a gaurd break more to stagger your opponent or hit their weapon away or just try to go straight through their block.
The issue is since your committing a lot you then they could do all the same things to you.
Blunt top heavy weapons like sludgehammers can prove incredibly well with this assuming you have the stamina because now if they block you might even just straight up break their weapon if they aren’t careful
@@kikixchannelWhat do you mean? I like to see my victims fly away from a power attack
A very fun video, but i think y'all missed something. The point of power attacks in video games is usually Guard Breaking. I think we might need a second video about power attacks vs shields and armor (car doors).
I fully agree the attack should be able to break through a perry or break a stance. Also a power attack doesn't have to be with a strictly hand held weapon, I think shields and just charging your opponent would also count because they break an opponents footing
Or they're good vs slow enemies.
My take on power attacks:
I see it more of an executioner move, applied when the opponent already lost balance due to previous strikes and is unable to counter it. Then it makes sense, to sort of finish it quick with a powerful blow.
What's the definition? Basically what Shad said.
it's also good for y'know, an actual execution. Since getting it done in one blow is kinda the only goal there.
And we see it to this day with Sledgehammers on POWs.
@@1stCallipostle Well... that's true.
And sad.
I think a good application for power attacks is very situational, but if an enemy is wearing heavy armor and you have a good mace or warhammer, and the drop on them, a good enough bop on the helmet can possibly kill them on the spot if you manage to hit them hard enough. Ironically, power attacks would make most sense for a sneaky rogue who can manage to get the power attack off with the element of surprise, to where he doesn't need to worry so much about defending himself in his attacks or about telegraphing.
A stereotypical rogue would just go through the neck with a knife, he can put force into the stab if the neck is protected by mail but doesn't need to be a fully charged hit.
I think that if you're both wearing heavy armor the tactic is a lot more effective.
@@othannen.Historically this is something knights did. They grappled to the ground and then knifed. Halfswording too, but they carried a knife for that reason.
@@derrickthewhite1 that's a good point. When you wear heavy armor, you can worry far less for the double strike - after all, you do wear heavy armor.
Every time I see that intro I am reminded of how much the production quality here has been increasing since "The Team"(tm) has been assembled :D Not that it was lacking to begin with, but still. Damn. Good job guys.
Those sparring sessions really go a long way to demonstrate how talented these guys are.
This is a very accurate statement, after watching that sparring, I know exactly how talented these guys are.......
To an untrained eye I'm sure they look very talented. Though, they literally never showcased the point that one may even use (or not use) a strong attack. Foam swords are not going to benefit from stronger attacks. If they brought out steel feders, they would find the benefit that stronger attacks can have against poor guard structure.
@@spicketspaghet7773 Indeed. I would add the obvious thing for them to demonstrate would be a Mandritto Fendente from Posta Di Donna, which would look like your classic "power attack", it's literally in the manual, and there is a response on how to deal with it.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 Absolutely. "Power" attacks have a place in HEMA. Perhaps not as telegraphed and obvious as in media, but knowing that they can be a tool is very useful. I mean, for example: If fighting a KDF or german-style practitioner, as they usually seek to be softer in binds, a good simple Fendente with some pepper in it can blow through whatever wind or binding action they had hoped to perform. Same for thrusting. A powerful Fendente against a very committed forwards thrust will blow right through, whereas a reserved cut will likely still be stopped.
@@spicketspaghet7773I'm assuming with those powerful counters, to avoid doubling, you'd most likely step backwards whilst performing the strike and counter with your own lunge after smacking their weapon?
But -1 to hit for +2 damage is so worth it!!!
-1AC for +4(or+6) damage is even better... But it does require going for an übercharger build...
Me too- I mean me three!
You miss 100% of the power attacks you don’t make.
Either make it +3 or give it a chance to stun, then it might be worth it.
@@Drejzer By level 7, you can be dishing out several thousand damage doing that. . .
It's a really fun thought-experiment, but in practice I've always found that it's better to just build it up to a point where it can do respectable damage, as opposed to insane damage, because that way it doesn't encourage the DM to start massively inflating health pools and create an artificial 'damage treadmill' that you need to keep running on to stay relevant. Push the math, sure, just don't push it too much.
I think the validity of power attacks rises as the weapons and armor get heavier. If the power-attacker is in full-plate, the risk of a double goes down substantially, and if the power-attacker has a big 2-handed mace or war-club, you could hit your target by bashing through their defenses, or at the very least knocking them off balance so they can't counterattack (I do have some experience with this from fighting with homemade pvc-and-pool-noodle weapons).
Yeah, to me this is the real take-away: those light hits don't matter nearly as much with good armor, so everything has to either go full power or aim for the gaps.
Power attack definition: A strike so powerful, that the attacker sacrifices proper form in order to generate supreme force
Utility: public executions, surprise attack, attack on stunned enemy, finishing move, opponent is off balance or fell, anti-armor, guardbreaker, gamble to do more harm at the cost of recieving a hit yourself
The Power Attack feat as described in 3.5 D&D (which is the first place I've heard that phrase used, though possibly not the first place it has been used altogether, simply reads, "You can make exceptionally powerful melee attacks."
I don't know where you got that definition from, but that's just nonsense. Part of the reason for 'proper forms' is to actually increase the damage. Forms train you to use more muscles for your strikes than you would normally.
Discarding a form to do a power attack would reduce the amount of muscles working on the strike, thus as a result, you achieve similar result, but the effort is focused on fewer muscles thus they end up being overworked.
A more proper power attack is using the form, but with all strength and generating as much momentum as possible (more 'windup'). Though this requires a more scientific testing, because I can assure you. Not every extra windup will increase momentum. Once you reach the peak speed you can reach with your strength, anything extra is just energy wasted on sustaining it for longer. This isn't something you can calculate without high-speed cameras and counting the speed of the swing and possibly the output with some measuring tool for strength.
Your mom gay
You have to consider that in video games your sword swings aren't being used against normal opponents who die in one blow, they're used against giant monsters who can take dozens of hits before going down.
The thing I'm most curious about, they talk about the lethality of a sword swing, but surely that would change wildly if they're wearing chainmail or chainmail+plate.
I’ll say this Shad, your channel has been actually showing up on my recommended for the last month or two which it hadn’t previously for a long time, forcing me to manually search for new videos. Hopefully RUclips continues to swing in your favor. Keep up the high quality content 👍
Absolutely love the addition of Tyranth and Nate. They add so much to the channel and it's improved so much over the years.
P.S. Sorry Tyranth if I mispronounced your name feel free to correct me.
Don't worry I don't think he heard you say it
Teeee ranth
I think if there is an opening, your opponent stumbles, makes a mistake, gets wounded etc. Then as an opportune move or last finishing strike they would work brilliantly. You then have the time to wind up, and the telegraph doesn't matter.
Thanks guys. Interesting stuff, as always 👍 👌 😊
Shad’s hair is getting progressively more medieval lookin good shad👍
heft weapons would work with power attack as its based on the momentum you give the weapon (axes, hammers, some polearms, maces and mauls)
Another thing to consider, how does doing "power" attacks influence weapon degradation (losing edge etc)? I can imagine when looking at very sharp edges (and light armour/none), comparing light attacks with heavy is like comparing the deadliness of a 9mm with a 50cal in the context of small game!
P.S. hadn't noticed before but the new intro is amazing, love all the cool shots!
The production value and consistent quality of Shadiversity videos literally just keep getting better and better.
The improvement and development of this channel and its production quality is just plain insane. Bravo Shad (and co.), it's just great to see
Please make a second video on this but with the titan sword. I feel like a huge sword will benefit very well with Power Attacks due to their length, and the weight that comes with the strike.
Love the video! I do wish these trope videos spent some time at the end discussing the context of the trope. Power attacks are typically seen in games with giant monsters or super powered humans, both of which could benefit from the extra power.
4:08 you are fighting an agile Warrior, you are not trying to injury a dragon through its thick skin.
YES YES YES seriously guys what an amazing job, so many good video I love the evolution of Shad channel and you guys chemistry is so fun and entertaining to watch, love from a Swiss man in Bali ❤
Do you consider a Power Attack as the same as an Heavy Attack ? maybe the heavy Attack should be the one when using all body weight and strength and the Power Attack is using power like Berserker power or other fantasy power ?
I would love to see this topic revised with a ballistic dummy so we could see if the power attacks cause more damage/breaks more bones
18:48 i think this is the main take away here and shad said it perfectly, in most games i play i never use "power attacks" unless my opponent is either staggered or i have a good opening so i really just comes down to opportunity and a little bit of luck
I'm reminded of an old C64 game named "Barbarians". essentially two people fighting with longswords. some attacks left you wide open... there also was the option to behead your opponent, with a long turnaround swing that could be blocked or avoided if you reacted soon enough.
one time me and my brother beheaded each other simultaneously. XD
I'd definatly like to see more sparring videos on this channel. Functional Fandome is really fun, but with the quality of your videos, I think you could upload some really fun sparring videos.
Baseball. The power used to swing is proportional to the distance a ball flies. A light swing may not get out of the infield. A hard swing may take the ball out out of the park. Depending on what you want/need to do, depends on the power you put into the swing.
In reality the vast majority of hitters try to swing the same every time, and the speed of the pitch combined with where it hits the bat determines how far the struck ball travels. This is why many hitters won’t participate in the home run derby. It develops bad habits very quickly.
Love you guys! Could you test to see what weave of butted chainmail is the most effective? Just a video idea I'm interested in for the sake of character design/worldbuilding :) Thanks!
I think of power attacks more like techniques you'd use with a sledgehammer or baseball bat to get the most out of a hit. Long swings where you accelerate the weapon over a long arc so that it is at its maximum energy on hit.
Great video!
I feel like you could've discussed a little about fantasy like scenarios. For instance, when fighting a monster as opposed to fighting a person, maybe you wouldn't be as worried about the "double" (depending on the monster inteligence and fighting style) and you just wanted to pass through the monster thick hide and be done with the fight or really just execute the thing while it is down or sleeping.
They kind of hinted at that when they mentioned it's useful in getting through armor. Functionally speaking, a gambeson is fairly similar to a thick hide.
But generally what I've seen in games is that "Heavy" attacks (aka power attacks) are leaning towards a stun/stagger/guard-break role (with more damage on hit ofc) while being countered by "Light" attacks which will strike sooner and interrupt the Heavy attacks, or simply evaded.
Aside from straight block-breaking, they're used to batter away an opponent, and are also useful if the target is unable to respond (stunned, immobilized via a gadget or spell, or straight-up unaware of you coming to hit them).
This is more-or-less how I'd expect a "power attack" to function in any setting: it's a compromise of speed in return for power, used in specific situations. It's effectiveness comes down to a person's stats, equipment loadout, the enemy they're facing, and the exact situation.
There's a couple of ways you could think about this. I'd say a power attack is just an attack that is purposely more powerful than what you would use most of the time. You could also consider it an attack with more commitment than what you would normally use. I'd say generally for these attacks to be successful against trained resistance, you would need some setup. Trap or immobilize the opponent's attack or movement then "power strike". Mask the attack with a feint, or pair it with evasive footwork. You need to create a moment in which the opponent is less likely to be able to respond.
Or use it on an enemy who is occupied by an ally. If they're already occupied, they're unlikely to see you coming, let alone have a chance to respond to the power attack.
Wrath guard: "Am I a joke to you?"
To have mates like these is all of my life goals. Thanks Shad another great video ❤
You guys were onto something here! Heres the first line of the power attack description for pathfinder: You unleash a particularly powerful attack that clobbers your foe but leaves you a bit unsteady.
So non of your findings were really wrong here, lol. The idea behind it is that you put more energy in the swing and forego agility and elegance for sheer brute force. What you saw happening during the first few tests (Tyranth getting hit multiple times for each 1 of his power attack swings) is also part of Power attack. Because the following sentance after the 1st is thus: This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty. If this Strike hits, you deal an extra die of weapon damage.
So basicly rather then opt for 2 hits you put all your eggs in 1 basket and hope the 1 swing will do enough damage that it disables your target. So would be (moderatly) usefull in a scenario where you think you can only have 1 hit in. So you make the hit count. Say you get the jump on someone in heavy armor and want to hit them with a club like Shad said in the end. A big hit to the head might knock them out cold or stun them long enough to give you the advantage. Or heck, kill them outright actually, lol. And a normal hit might not be enough due to the heavy armor so you go all out and hope the blunt force trauma of the hit is enough that it results in you not getting skewered as a result of your heavy cumbersome swing...
But the sparring showed the realistic drawbacks of power attacks as well. Well done id say! :D
When I think of powerattacks, I think of Baseball, or Tennis, or Golf. Big, wind-up strikes.
The combos from Tyranth I would declare as "heavy attacks" in game terms.
For powerattacks I think they would be best suited for opportunity attacks. I games that is usually when an enemy is startled, dazed, stunned, prone, or any other such status.
Just imagine: A baseball pro with a bat, throwing pocket sand in your face and then goes for the homerun while you are startled. Just terrifying.
So powerattacks are for when you know you have the time to charge and/or recover without threat of a counterattack.
I think this is one of those times where we go back to the original popularizer of term... Dungeons and Dragons. With 3rd and 3.5 "Power Attack" actually makes a lot of sense based on what you saw in testing, you sacrificed chance of hitting (increased telegraphing of attacks) for increased damage. Further, in those editions, unlike later adaptations, you could SCALE the power attack, going from just increasing the damage a little bit for a little less chance of hitting, to doing a fully overcommitted swing that was hugely telegraphed. Finally, to even perform said attacks you needed to have special training to do it (a feat, meaning it was a specialized skill not a general combat ability) and that feat had a minimum strength requirement.
All these fit your testing to a tee, from the obvious need of strength for it to make a difference, to the amount of telegraphing, to the difference in what you consider to be a "power attack".
In other words... like when you tried figuring out the best weapon kit for a Ranger... you discovered that maybe 3.x DnD wasn't quite so bad as you thought it was. :P
A serious distinction that needs to be made for this question is whether or not you want to say that "power attacks" and "charged attacks" are the same thing. In a lot of games: a power attack is distinguished by being mapped to a different button from the standard attacks, while charged attacks are defined by having you hold down the attack button. Based on that definition you could actually have both charged light attacks and charged power attacks. You could just say that they're different parts of the same weapons move set, like thrusting with a sword vs slashing with it. Also; could you consider a murder-stroke to be a power attack for a sword?
Love the intro for the Functional Fandom man!!!!
Yes. Their best intro ever tbh.
Loved this video!! I was curious…has your Functional Fandom series ever investigated the “Dark Souls Roll” as a means of evading attacks? If not, I think it would be a cool video!
Skallagrim did a research and, to put it simply, it's an utter garbage
My definition on the power attack isnt necessarily the force put into the attack itself but the windup before it. Its gotta be behind you and swung at that immensely telegraphed position, kinda like a finishing move for a downed opponent. In pretty much any game the more youre winding up, the more damage as a result.
Nah, I think the amount of power behind a “power attack” is the intrinsic feature. It’s only slow and hugely telegraphed to balance the fact that it does big damage.
Shad good to see you looking healthier.
what is a power attack?
well, in videogames logic its an attack that uses more stamina and takes longer.
so i believe im with shad on this one: an attack that winds up and has all its mass following through it.
As if one was attacking an inanimate object like a rock and is trying to destroy the target not just cut into it.
I think its very bad to use these because of double hits but if you need to put down a knight on the ground and smash his helmet, you would use a power attack and not a light hit or a combination of just commited strikes.
I would really love to see you guys make a video on flamboyant blades, like what exactly are the advantages of having such a blade type?
HULK - er, I mean, SHAD SMASH!
7:35 Shad does an ORAORAORAORA, my life is complete
Dragon's Dogma's Arc of Obliteration's charge time is 10 seconds. You need to test if 10 seconds of winding up will launch your targets 10 stories into the air with a devastating downward strike.
Omfg that skill was so cool if you could actually manage to pull it off! Straight up ONE SHOTS!!! No feeling better than blowing straight through 6 health bars lol
@@odotawaissaku3755 Extra style points if you can time Arc of Obliteration to strike an incoming flying griffin or dragon.
Context seems to be key when defining a power attack, definitely.
Another great video, guys.
A couple things I noticed, both of them touched on briefly in the video, but I think they're actually a huge deal.
One is movement. As they found, it's quite difficult to defend against a series of strong aggressive attacks like that... which is why you probably wouldn't. Just get out of the way. Of course, as they mentioned, terrain can make that more difficult, but the point remains. After a few full-body attacks, even a very fit person will probably start to lose a small bit of steam.
Second is the double issue. As was pointed out, these exercises ended up in doubles the majority of the time. It's actually pretty easy to hit another person with a sword. The trick is not getting hit yourself while doing it. If you hit the other person and kill them, that's cool. But if they kill you too, you've lost. In an actual combat scenario, things would be a bit more defensive. Guaranteeing the kill usually isn't everything.
The issue I have with that is "Doubles" is a very Larp thing to worry about. Actual weapons make this sort of deal very different. Who cares if you get a slice on your forearm when you've basically disemboweled the opponent.
In D&D 3.5, Power Attack is a feat where you trade some of your accuracy for increased damage. You are generally not throwing away your defensive capabilities. You take a -1 to -5 to hit and get an equal amount of damage, maximum equals your base attack bonus. Further feats increase damage at the expense of defense or some other penalty, until they become non-penalties due to power progression.
First one here. Show me the power!
I was off by 40 seconds lmao.
UNLIMITED POWWWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
I would classify some those swings as "reckless attack". A 5e barbarian feature that increases lethality at the cost of being more vulnerable to incoming attacks. All offense minimal defense.
@Shadiversity I think a large/two-handed mallet would work really well with power attacks. This weapon would probably be mostly if not fully wood (due to weight issues) but the hammer portion would feature a large surface area (like regular mallets). What this would do is instead of putting more force on a small point, you would spread your force over a "large" area resulting in that force knocking you back or down to the ground as well as knocking the air out of your lungs and possibly bruising/breaking some bones.
My HEMA group tested out striking from Wrath guard. It seems to suit this topic well. We found it quite difficult to block as long as you cast your sword into the opponent instead of trying to swing through. The latter resulted in overswings that left you open. The former generally broke through their structure or left them rattled.
I’ve had this idea for an RPG with multiple playable characters, and their chargeable/power attacks, if any, are explicitly magical in nature. The sorcerer charges a fireball, the barbarian who’s totally not Thor builds up lightning, the martial artist who has psychic powers for some reason charges telekinetic force into a punch, etc.
I reckon all three of you are correct in a sense, there's a significant amount of variables that'd be put into play where a "power attack" would be necessary, and a psychological edge against an opponent, off balance weapon, breaking plate mail, or generally having the physical fitness are all accountable factors towards so. So to appropriately define it would be to boil it down to individual capacity and the setting in which said individual and their weapon is placed in, as opposed to the attack itself.
Also, do you reckon you'd be able to do a video on the implications of using say a parrying dagger with a sword, and how supposedly effective it was/could be.
Hey Shad, I don't know how available they are in Australia, but here in the US a lot of the gun channels use ballistic gel torsos to show the damage from firearms and other weapons. I know they're pretty expensive, but if you could get your hands on a few, it would show exactly how dangerous medieval weapons could be. Just trying to help you out. Love your channel! If you want to see what the most powerful shoulder fired rifle can do to the human body or body armor, watch Kentucky Ballistics 4 Bore vs body armor. Shad, I want to see what a helbert or crows beak can do to the same target.
You guys are putting out the best content you ever have. Love you guys.
Interesting point on the follow-ups!
Many games have it so you can do a combo of light attacked that END in a power attack.
However here it seems good to START with a legit one, and then chain that into lighter swings? The games make out that's not possible.
Have you guys watched any of Fandabi Dozi’s “How to swing a stick perfectly”? Some of the techniques shown in that video would very much be what I would consider a “power attack”.
Also, one aspect of power attacks it doesn’t seem like you guys talked about, is using the delay itself to throw off the timing of your opponent’s defense. Robinswords’ short video, “What’s the point of stomping in a sword fight?”, covered this pretty well.
I liked the idea from the recent Lies of P, that heavy attacks are performed with the heavy sword instance, light sword is the instance of speed that refers to fencing and in Sekiro the heavy attack is performed with the ax to break enemy defense like wooden shields.
A good way to check blunt impacts would be to get some compression mark paper and see what sort of imprints you can make with given weapons, would help test just how much damage things do even if the armor “stops” them
Love the content. Thank you guys so much for what you do.
Fun discussion. I'm inclined to agree with weapon dependent element. Unless a magic system comes into play.
It took a little while, but Shads Aragorn hair is coming along nicely. Looking good m8!
A power attack necessarily involves a change in technique to deliver more power. It's not just a normal attack delivered viscously.
Really GREAT video. An interesting point arises at around 17:00 when discussing the concept of a power attack. Seems like there's a difference between "a powerful attack" (an attack with full force) and a "power attack" (an attack in which the focus is on strenght but not so much on speed, practicallity or recovery). Its about strategy and resources, of course if you have a lot of strenght AND stamina you could spend more. But the point is not that (your overall strategy, on that case, will involve more powerful attacks). I think the point is, if there is a point in which you can use all of your power but at the expense of a LOT of your speed or your recovery, should you do that?
To me, a "power attack" is a type of attack in which you choose power in a DETRIMENTAL way to other relevant aspects of your attack (speed, recovery, vulnerability). So you have to choose strategically between power vs 3 or 4 other things.
Its not about the same attacks "with more power", but a different kind of attack, on which you sacrifices speed and recovery and safety overall. That's the real issue and I think we can all agree they are not useful.
one thing I noticed in an earlier power attack you did, the amount of recoil / reverberation on the blocking blade was massive. this could lend well to disarming >.o
My thoughts for the matter of a power attacks, is putting one's everything into one focused attack and committed to it regardless of the push back it would do for the body. Someone wanting to hit so hard to perhaps break an armor, or try to bring someone down hard. Even if it means being opened to attack right after.
Hello there, backyard swordsman with an exercise science background here. In sports science, the difference between "full strength" and "power" is engaging the stretch reflex. So, one would draw back the weapon far enough to get the muscles to stretch slightly, which then creates a bit of a spring effect that increases strength and speed remarkably. It's pretty much the definition of a big wind-up, but the force it generates is remarkable. Might be something to consider. Cheers and thanks for all you do 🙏
5:54 reminds me of what I’ve heard (no hands-on experience myself) of greatsword-type swords (any two-handed choppy weapon, really, but especially a sword because they’re offensive all the way down, as opposed to axe-headed polearms with a long shaft) just being swung around to keep large groups of enemies at a distance because it’s scary. You don’t necessarily have to hit someone for the technique to be effective of the goal is to keep them from hurting you and yours.
Oh yeah, finally a video explaining me no need brain the swing sharp stick
It makes sense as a finishing move or if someone is stunned/distracted to wack them extra hard with a bludgeoning weapon. As just some random way to do more damage, you're going to telegraph and be slower.
I remember hearing something about the amount of cutting ability related to the rate of acceleration at the point of contact. So a swing that is at its maximum acceleration at the point of contact will cut less than a swing that maintains its acceleration up to the point of contact and beyond. Something about resistance maybe? But would explain why when dealing with cutting weapons there is very little maybe even a detriment in result when comparing a power attack to a consistent one
Another great video! I’m not an expert, but the things I have deduced from practicing swings and stabs with different forms of weapons and maneuvers; is that generally forceful attacks (power attacks) are only useful in very specific circumstances (as you stated). Most video games however, do not understand how lightweight most weapons were made to be, so they have these power attacks that require you to wind up your whole body because you generally already have to wind up half of it to swing it in the first place.
Even in circumstances where you are trying to do a power attack stab, it would require a knowledge of your weapon and a great deal of practice to perform it safely and have it deal more damage than just a regular old stab. Most non-improvised weapons were made to work efficiently enough to an extent of being able to have a poorly trained levy still able to perform at a decent lethal quality.
So sadly, it seems your analysis is correct: they are mostly not very useful unless if you are trying to beat in plate armor, pierce chainmail, or support the supremacy of STICK.
Glad to see you doing well Shad, even if it is only an appearance for a day to follow your passions. Thank you Nate and Tyranth for sticking with Shad and tripling the comedic and educational aspects of this channel. I know it is a struggle for you all, and you are all stronger than most, so thank you for pushing through this long. All the best to you three, and enjoy some rest if you can Shad, that looked like a workout.
6:52 That also happens a lot in boxing and other combat sports where it's very common for a person who just started boxing before throwing a punch they pull your arms back and then pull you back to try to gain more power but not only that it's unnecessary because there are better and faster ways to get power but it also leaves you very exposed to counter attacks and telegraphs a lot
Day 5 of asking for either a misconception video on medieval weddings and how they can be incorporated into fantasy stories or a fight scene autopsy on Merlin.
or could you do video on how functional it would be to duel weald a sword and a flick lock pistol would be like my main character in my fantasy story, because that's one of her primary weapon combos
to me, a power attack is one of those moves you use as a latch ditch, do or die effort by putting everything into to make it count. Depending on your environment, you can use it as a sneak attack. If the enemy hasn't noticed you, you have time for perform the windup for that extra omph. Best weapons for power attacks are blunt weapons, spears and daggers (if you hold it upside down and plunge it).
I coudn't hold laughing at 9:00 🤣
Nonetheless, a very nice video. I always wondered about power attacks' practicality.
the right thought was sounded, for a power attack you do not necessarily need to swing hard and telegraph. You can give an example of martial arts without a weapon, a skilled boxer will easily inflict a short punch from a protected stance without a swing of the same strength as not very skilled - with a swing, a run, a jump, or anything else
You guys literally gave me flashbacks of me and my mates back in the day with that intro
I was ( am ) the speed guy
I think the seconds spars power attack is more of the DnD reckless attack which is defined as "attacking in a reckless was that gives advantage to hit but leaves you open for the next move."
To me, it seems like it depends on the opponent and the application.
To a beast or animal, they can’t tell if you’re telegraphing, or if you have a clear opening on your opponent.
I feel like it has application, like that hang right after the power attack where you used a normal attack. Working it into your combos. To change the pace and strength of your strikes, to use feints, confuses a human opponent.
Light strikes can cut gambeson, then power attack the sleeve off. It also seems like you wanna duel your opponent to submission, like knock them down, then aim for the opening in their armor.
Or against light armored opponents.
Great video, guys! Thank you!
How vulnerable are wrists and the groin in a practical sense?
Will you do a video on how realistic are opportunity attacks in board games/war games/turn based video games? The way these media represent opportunity attacks as way unrealistic.
I don't know who was in charge of re-doing the functional fandom intro but that person deserves the highest of fives -- seriously well done! Also, great video!
On video game style power attack with a light weapon: Growing up as a wildchild wandering deep in the Alaskan rainforest (southeast) I began using a machete regularly at 8. Over decades I evolved my own power attack moves. The reason being that using a blade to cut down a tree is far more efficient and fast than a chainsaw only if you can do it in one or two swings. The moves I did that could cut down up to 9in (23cm) trees in one blow were optimized to use all of my body weight, maximize velocity of the blade by utilizing everything between my toes to my wrist and fingers. And muscle group prioritization: to save energy for the muscles that are needed the most I would relax all other muscles not in use. For trees that big I used a thin 3mm thick 5 in (12cm) wide 4.5 ft long razor sharp, oiled sword I made. However what is a power attack changes with the weapon (mainly its weight). It doesnt matter if the worlds strongest man or the worlds most average man swings a dagger as hard as he can, the results will be virtually the same. But I did develop an effective technique for swinging light blades that did not involve putting my weight into the strike but increasing speed. It involved literally winding up as much as possible: wrapping my arm and blade around my body like im reaching for my scabbard on my right with my right hand from around my back. The movement is all about centrifugal force. To execute I whip the blade from off my right hip across my back holding it against my stomach while using my shoulder to pull the blade against me while I use my stomach to bounce it with a wrist/arm snap at the end. The movements take a fraction of a second. Using the technique right the blade moves insanely fast and powerfully, beyond power gained by strength and does a large amount of damage despite being light. It is the only power technique I developed that significantly increased damage without it plateauing because of lack of weight. I consider it a video game power attack because of the large amount of literal wind up, that it is a solitary move, and has significant increase in damage output.
@Nathan, audio volume felt inconsistent in this video. As for power attacks, I assume it depends on the armor they are wearing, and also the opportunities you get. Little armed men that outnumber someone more heavily armored might take a power attack from behind to use the numbers advantage to overcome the armor. One on one might be hard but if you outnumber them one soldier can try for that big strike.
Power attacks in my eyes can be a singular or series of strikes used with the emphasis on breaking someone’s guard and additional impacting force through armour (breaking a collar bone through blunt force trauma in addition to any cuts, thrusts or slashes)
Power attacks in a TTRPG setting in my eyes can be both a strike with a heavy wind up (think home run swing with a baseball bat) and heavier than normal blows (with the addition of keeping or disregarding form)
A power attack is not a reckless attack; although it can be.
I would say you should distinguish between wind-ups and momentum strikes. Wind-ups are the telegraphed moves that you can see a mile away, while momentum strikes take existing momentum and amplify it mid-swing.
You can also have a charge strike (the dash and slash) and a strike from stance (or opening strike) as those have their own forms of telegraphing or momentum.
Edit: also try out feints, both with feinting a power strike and feinting and leading into a power strike.
I think it is like a hay maker. Hay makers work if your opponent is beaten up and tired, or otherwise unable to propperly deffend (eg. busy fighting another person), but unless you are damn lucky, they just open you up to be hit.
Now, falling back on what I am more familiar with (being Canadian country boy and a veteran, that means guns) shot placement matters more than power on an unarmoured person. Power is only needed to over come armour (or in bullet cases, distance, but that is less an issue in mele weapons).
I would say, that the "power attack" is less defined by the attack itself, but the after-effects on you and your opponent(s). A power attack is an attack, where you exert yourself so much to cause extra "damage" or other effects, that you have to recover from it (as in, you have to gather your strength before you can do it again).
As for your opponent, a power attack is something intimidating. They might be shocked/staggered afterwards or - in case of a blunt weapon - you might have caused them to fall over. They might also be more reluctant to fully engage you again...