Buffy the Vampire Slayer REACTION | Season 6, Episode 19: Seeing Red
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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I love this episode because people tend to romanticize Spike for being a vampire doing good, and end up forgetting that he is a souless, cruel monster. This is Whedon reminding Spike' s fanclub of what he really is.
"WTF OMG"
Yea, this show gets that a lot. This episode is BRTUAL!!!
"I been fooled, I feel like a fool"... This is exactly one of the moments what people meant when they went on and on about the beauty of this show on your first episode. "The buckle up, your in for a ride", this show will make anything else you watch a hard sell cause you'll be wanting the same quality.
Lovers Walk, I Was Made to Love You, Seeing Red: if someone’s reacting to any of these episodes, I’m there!
and the gift
Don’t forget the first shocker that really hurt many, Passion. I know a couple of fellow fans that have never forgiven Angel/ Angelius for Jenny.
James Marsters was traumatized by filming that scene. He's had a condition written into all future contracts that he never has to do anything like that again.
big episode. generally one of my faves but one we are all furious about when it ends. it definitely leaves us speechless, which is the whole point.
It’s funny that after Darla Warren was the only character that thought of killing the slayer with a gun…
Oh, wait, I think I forgot about the Nazi’s.
Thats a lot of trauma you fit in one thumbnail
Sorry 'bout it.
I also remember thinking how different season 1 was compared to seasons 5/6/7. But then I realized, Buffy was a child and now she is an adult and has to deal with all the things that go along with living in the horrible world of grown ups. Don't feel bad, I also always liked Spike.
It’s easy to forget, but season one included:
episode 1/2: Buffy wasn’t able to save the life of the best friend of one of her 2 new best friends. She also failed to save the life of the bouncer at the bronze, and many others that night as well.
3: almost had her head chopped off by a crazy witch with an AXE
4: she fails to save the life of the one teacher who she truly connects with
5: she fails to save a little boy from death (Colin), as well as several other innocents on the same bus
6: she is almost r*ped by her best friend Xander; she fails to save the caring principal, who is EATEN ALIVE by four possessed students! (Do she and Giles get Watcher counseling for them afterwards?!)
7: her new boyfriend who she already loves, turns out to be a monster, the kind she is supposed to kill (her failing to kill him here will lead to MANY innocent deaths in the future that she should blame herself for.)
8: she fails to save two computer nerds from a demon, one of who’s parents now forever think that he committed suicide and they were bad parents for not seeing the signs
9: she fails to stop multiple murders during the talent show, and fails to save her watcher’s life (but luckily her friend Xander is there to save it)
11: she fails to save the lives of her Watcher and two best friends (but luckily her boyfriend is there to save them)
12: she has to make the very adult decision to give up her life to save others; and then actually DIES (but is revived by her friend Xander)
Yeah, I would say season one is every bit as traumatic as seasons 5-7, if you think about what actually happened in each episode.
I've been listening to interviews with the writers from this era, and I believe they used the assault as a reminder of Spike's current moral-free state. They intended the Buffy/Spike relationship to be abusive, but it remained incredibly romanticized, so they had to really go hard. I think like you said, people like him so much they overlooked the bad things he did, message boards from the time absolved him entirely when the writers said he was representing the "bad boyfriend" you have in your 20s. I find Buffy's comment that she should have stopped him long ago really telling, because it cements my view that her relationship with him was essentially self harm. She believed him when he said she belonged in the dark wtih him, that she was bad--her assaulting him was reminiscent of Faith assaulting herself in the body-switch episode. He was exacerbating her depression, not helping her out of it.
I know you're ahead on Patreon which is the only reason I'll say (spoilers for anyone who isn't ahead of this ep...........)
his arc for the rest of the season is incredibly poorly executed imo. They were so ambiguous it doesn't work, and it was intentional. They told him to act those scenes both ways, wanting the soul out and wanting the chip out, and I guess they mixed and matched in the edit. The show has previously been really good with misdirects where rewatches allow you to see where you were mistaken, in this case there's none of that. It's intentionally confusing which is not the standard for the show so it really sticks out.
Yeah, I actually got the wrong idea myself while doing that one. They definitely made it look like the soul was a surprise to him. It was to me.
I could not wait to see your reaction to this episode.
Spike isn't angry that he didn't do it; he's wondering why he didn't go through with it.
One thing to remember is that the whole Spuffy relationship in Season 6 has been toxic.
BOTH Buffy and Spike have been using each other. Several of their "intimate" encounters have started with actual violence, literally them physically assaulting each other. Consent has been problematic. Buffy has often started their encounters by punching Spike. This is not a healthy relationship - it is abuse. They've said "No" to each other and then kept going. Buffy while invisible sexually assaulted Spike without consent - he gave in, but he didn't ask for that.
So Spike is used to violence as foreplay, and used to a verbal No becoming Yes by actions. I'm not excusing his actions in the bathroom; I'm just saying it isn't surprising that he didn't register Buffy's No as actually meaning NO, at least not right away. And he IS evil, his love for Buffy 8s obsessive more than romantic. To paraphrase what he told Buffy and Angel - it's blood, working its will.
When he finally realized what he'd done, that she really meant HELL NO, it was too late. He'd gone too far. He knew he'd crossed the line, even though they had never actually had a line before. And the realization hit him hard.
The chip doesn't work with Buffy. Her, he could even kill without the chip kicking in. So getting the chip out won't help him with this, right? He had free will with respect to Buffy - and this time he didn't just hurt her physically, like they had been doing earlier in the season, he hurt her emotionally. If nothing else, if he leaves town he won't be able to give in to that lust against her consent again.
Spike is evil, and Spuffy is just a bad idea...but Spike shouldn't carry all the blame; Buffy should never have been using him just to feel something. Both of them are broken, in different ways. Spike's character arc fascinates me - can he come back from this? Can Buffy? Buffy needs help, she needs counseling of some kind. I think she knows what happened, and I don't think she holds herself blameless, even though Spike rightfully bears the brunt of the blame.
Don't say No if you don't mean it, but if you do say No and then change your mind, say that, say okay, Yes. Because No should mean NO, every time. Or it loses its significance. If someone says No, you stop. Period.
I dread this episode every time. Warren needs to be unalived.
"Spike isn't angry that he didn't do it; he's wondering why he didn't go through with it."Same as me. For 21 years now.😒💢
I like that they changed the line "your shirt" in the German dub to "It's all red..."
Fits more with the original title "seeing red" but it's also a totally believable thing Tara would be saying there.
RE: Jonathon, he had already committed SA in S4 episode, "Superstar" when he cast that augmentation spell. Those two blonde girls who came out of his bedroom and asked him to come back to bed. He had deprived them of their consent by the spell. There's no way they'd have agreed to sleep with him without the spell. As far as his actions with the trio, he needs to go to jail because he's committed numerous robberies and aided Warren in covering up Trina's murder. So even with him helping Buffy, he"s gonna have to serve some time.
I remember watching this when it aired. I was kinda just in shock. I didn't even realize Tara died. Like I just remember being shocked by the gun cuz they never really use guns on this show and seeing buffy on the ground. Then I blinked and Tara said your shirt. So I thought willow had been shot... the Spike and Buffy scene is A LOT... I remember instantly knowing what was going on there and basically just being numb at that point.
I remember the first time I saw that episode. I threw a pillow at the tv. Team Tara here, I was horrified!
Here we are...
So, the thing about what Spike did is that objectively it's not that bad compared to other stuff we've seen. We've had much worse rapes before in this series, by equally well-loved characters, as well as other very serious evil deeds up to and including murder.
But people react much, much more strongly to the bathroom scene than to any of the others, and get repulsed by Spike in a way that they never were with Willow, Faith, Jonathan, etc.. I think it's because it's so close to real life - all the other rapes up to this point have used magical coercion so you can't picture them taking place in the real world, and the same is true of most of the murders and psychological torture. Even for Jenny's murder, which isn't supernatural per se, they made sure Angelus had his vampire face on for it. But it's easy to imagine the bathroom scene happening in real life, to real people, and so it evokes a much more visceral reaction. It's a bit like The Body in that way, it's too realistic for comfort.
I agree. I think I said something similar during the outro.
Such a great piece of writing, and not by Joss though he must have had a hand in it.
Happy start. "Tara dead". 'Spike dead to me.' Interesting that Andrew's launch failure gets such a great laugh, post 'the bathroom scene'.
Buffy: "...Warren, it's time you grow up." Best summary of the show for me.
Haha, that _was_ a necessary line.
You probably can't notice it while watching the show a single time, but it jokes and is ironic about guns a lot, since season 1. I can't help but think it has always been all in preparation for something like this.
A hard-to-take episode, it hits like a truck.
Remember that when Darla went to kill Buffy she had 2 guns and started shooting at Buffy quickly. Can’t confirm but to me it looked like the same make of gun used by both Darla and Warren.
If I remember correctly, it was originally going to be Oz, who saw the blood on Willow's shirt - so they'd been thinking about it awhile.
@@DavidWright1138 So many rumors and stories. Joss Whedon has changed his version of the behind the scene’s happenings as well has original story outlines. You are probably right but he did things for power and money so his intentions and thoughts will never be fully understood.
@@williambowman2326 I am not saying he planned it exactly as it is from the start, but that he had the idea and has been looking for a good time to exploit it.
Your poor face after the shooting.🥺
It is sad, disturbing and tragic, but is without doubt a brilliant episode in the overall series. As we were saying how Dark S6 was, well it doesn't get much darker than this. We have attempted rape, murder and Willow finally being broken in her spiral to the dark side after Tara's shooting. Some brilliant scenes in this episode too, Dawn's conversation with Spike, and Warren and Xander's confrontation in the Bronze. Regarding Spike and Buffy in the bathroom it reminds us very much to of S3 episode Consequences with Faith's sexual assault, and attempted rape of Xander, and tries to actually murder Xander, after he asks her to stop, we have to remember Faith had a soul doing this, Spike did not, an interesting juxtaposition here. This is of course no excuse for Spike, but the writers are reminding us again that Vampires are soulless creatures with no control or remorse for their actions. James Marsters spoke at Dublin Comicon in 2019 about this and gave an interview to The Tellyshow at Dublin Comicon talking about this episode, and how he didn't want to do it, and was deeply affected by it having to have therapy afterwards as it affected him so much. The needless shooting of Tara is so shocking at the end, we see in Willow's eyes a complete change now seeking ultimate rage and revenge for what Warren has done. Here is the interview James gave if you watch it from 10.46 in, he talks about the bathroom scene, it is ok to watch this you will not be spoiled if you watch it from 10.46 to 15.42, he reveals an incredible secret about the writing for the bathroom scene, remember to stop at 15.42 it's a must watch. ruclips.net/video/rkO3bIARMdc/видео.html
Thanks! I'll take a look when I've finished the show. I don't wanna hear the actor's real accent until then.
@@jaypeakay5864 It's worth a watch Jay. As you know the show switched networks in S6, and so the bathroom scene was very graphic, the scene when Faith sexually assaults Xander was of course in S3, if that was shown in say S6 it probably would be more disturbing as they would have been more graphic, because it was female on male assault it seems it never gets treated as serious. In that clip from Comicon James discussed this from the writers. The writer, a male, had a broken relationship with a female, who came back and forced herself on him, James discussed this at length. Def give it a watch when you finish the show.
@@killianlpc 👍
@@killianlpc Definitely worth watching pretty much any James Marsters interview, the man is a great and decent human. There's a website where you can 'buy' celebrity cameos for not too much money, and I've seen a couple he's done for reactors, where he talks a bit as James and then goes into character as Spike and they are brilliant.
This is where the real season starts
25:22 - 25:37 🤭 26:54 - 27:51 Yep. This is *_that_* episode...!😭😭😭😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔💔💔💔
You're not a fool. The writers did this deliberately to remind us that Spike wasn't good, he was muzzled. It does make sense after you get through the final season. And in spite of this episode, Spike remains one of my favourite characters.
James Marsters said he didn't want to do the bathroom scene. But when he told the crew no, Joss Whedon said he could be out of a job. James Marsters also said doing the bathroom scene made him so upset, he got into therapy.
This episode is titled "Seeing Red" for a reason.
"Fell deeds awake. Now for wrath, now for ruin... and the red dawn."
...e're the sun rises!
@@garymcallister4128 Forth Willowlingas!
Get ready for the most WTF moments of the season.
Here we go!😢
Yeah, this is the episode when the shit hits the fan.
_And_ the _fans._ ;-S
After all is said and done, Spike is 1 of my top 2 characters.... that's all I'm gona say.
Mine too. I've yet to see how it turns out for him, but he may even have overtaken Buffy as my favourite character - this episode excepted.
@@PatissaPA same. Tara is my second favorite - but at the same time by far the purest soul in the show. She just didn't have enough screen time to win the top spot.
I remember wanting Tara to have a "Force ghost" like Obi-wan just so she could keep gracing the show with her presence. If anyone on the show could have stayed around as a ghost, the way she died and her pure spirit could have done it.
Great reaction. I felt exactly the same about Spike after the bathroom scene, so disappointed.
I was absolutely gutted. Also a bit furious too. Haha.
@@jaypeakay5864 I feel like I'm the only"Buffy"fan in the whole world who is disappointed at the bathroom scene not because _it happened_ but because of _how it ended._
GReat, great Reaction!!
Ooh this episode! Looking forward to your reaction to the next few! 😊
Eek! You're not going to enjoy the last couple, especially the finale. They were probably my worst ever reactions, and that's saying something, lol. I was got myself a little confused and I was quite negative too. On the plus side, I've been loving S7. 😁
Jay I enjoy all of your reactions. You are one of my favourites! And a fellow Brit too. I see that you be yourself.
Your reaction to the spike scene, given he is one of your favourite characters (mine too) for me it showed your merit as a man. I actually saw Buffy when it first aired in the UK in the late 90's/ early 2000's ( born 1991) and it's always been my favourite show. Taking the journey with you again is fab!
Also u don't give negative vibes atall ( quite the opposite) now I'm going to watch the football and hope England don't get kicked out of the Euro's today ( yes I'm a tomboy at heart). ❤
What Xander says in the episode is the reality of it: "But I never forgot what he is". That's the writers speaking to the audience who built up Spike to be this Angel-like character when he's a dog with behavioural issues who is controlled by a chip. He's done good while having the chip but he's also done wrong things. Remember when he thought the chip wasn't working, the first thing he did was go after Buffy. Near the end of this episode, he lays it out perfectly, 'won't LET ME be a monster (what he physically and mentally is); can't be a man (something he has been learning to be and the only way to realistically be with Buffy, but something ruled by the chip)'.
Yep. That happened.
Yip.
Screw this episode.
Tara was my favorite character.
Warren is my #1 most hated fictional character of all time.
And oddly enough, these two were dating irl, at the time they shot this episode.... lmao....😅
Time to kick it up a notch leading to the finale.
Or 10... 😲
The greatest IRL irony of this episode is that Amber Benson and Adam Busch actually dated after meeting on this show
😲
You have now joined millions that have experienced Seeing Red. Your reactions are exactly right because whatever anyone feels is right for them and that’s all it can be .
First, Warren. Typical BTVS. We have had super powerful Vampires, the Army and Government Intelligence, a pure ascended Demon, and goddesses of Hell…. Even the vile Watchers Council but none have approached Warren. I can call 8 very strong, together, successful women now and ask, Who is the worst person ever in the movies or television ( and maybe life). Without hesitation I would hear, Warren. He is loathsome and is the worst far and away
Now Spike. Buffy would not have been physically assaulted. Her Slayer strength would be able to stop Spike but she was yelling for him to stop himself. His continuing on told Buffy all she needed to know to finalize her decision to end it with Spike. Now think about the background of Spike. No defense but recall Fool For Love. He has no mature understanding of love. He was an idealistic wanna be poet that wanted a fictional love that does not exist. Then his teacher for love and sex is Drusilla. He will combine love with lust, sex, fulfilled desires, violence, pain, domination, obsession, and murder. He is a mess and always has been . That’s one of the points of the season and you picked up on something often missed. The trio are variations of William in 1880. Poetry and novels were what William had access to for trying to understand relationships and having a connection with a woman. At this time The Trio have the media with its sexual images and false objectification of women. Recall how in the first episodes they were all about watching and getting access to porn. Like William, The Trio are the results of consuming media and wanting what they are selling without regard for anyone else. Like a vampire, they are selfish in wanting their desires fulfilled instantly without any concern. The Trio wants women to be first a sexual being to satisfy cravings of the flesh with no need for emotional connection. Warren creates a robot but that’s not enough He needs to drug his ex to make her a maid that is an unwilling slave to his immediate cravings Then with physical power he can dominate and overpower. He is a sociopath… no empathy or caring. And that is the problem with Spike and has been all along.He is obsessed with Buffy, like Angel and Dracula, and his actions have been based on his obsession, not for a mature, natural, and caring love. He has never had this type of love in his life.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
Ouff..Speaking of morbidity and drama...🤐
💔
Right!? 😬
I know it doesnt seem like it now, but ..... Ill just wait. no spoilers.
The way I see it is Angelus and The Master are the only soulless characters we've seen that could survive The Judge (perhaps some one episode and/or one demensional villains as well, but that's a hard one). At the end of the day Spike wasn't any different at the end of S5 and the beginning of S6 (which is where a lot of people say he changed) as he was before he was chipped and in this episode. That doesn't mean the Judge wouldn't burn him or the bathroom scene wouldn't turn out this way. Spike's realization that he isn't who he thought doesn't change his soullessness, but it is the reason for the bathroom scene existing. Even with him hating himself, he's still soulless. That's something many fans still don't always understand. They just question why it had to happen. But doing good never made Spike good.
Tara is officially a main character and Joss finally got to do what he wanted to do with Jesse. Make him a main character just to kill him off. Only it was done with Tara in this case.
A bury your gays trope or not, there are three reasons Tara died that has nothing to do with the bad aspects of the bury your gays trope:
1. Tara was the only one this season growing up, starting when she left Willow. The point of the season is the failure of growing up. Tara is the only one not struggling in that reguard. Therefore, she becomes Buffy's Giles. The replacement authority figure. This next part is not confirmed in any way, but my theory is had Anthony Stewart Head not taken time off to see his family, his character would have died ie authority figure death trope type of way. Since Tara had that role it was one of the three reasons she died.
2. Tara and Willow getting back together seemed sweet with the line, "Can we just skip it," but I don't think its was a good idea to "skip" the issues. Long term that could just bite them in the ass. And, as seen in this episode, jumping into not dealing with them is the reason Tara is in Warren's line of fire. Dealing with those issues would mean not jumping into bed and not being naked nearly all day until the moment happens. Let me be clear, I am not blaming Willow or Tara for Warren's actions in killing Tara, but I do think it was too soon for Willow and Tara to just jump into bed. Whether Tara realized it or not, her death rattle unintentionally started when she said, "Can we just skip it." Could there have been other outcomes? Yes. But then that leads back to unresolved long term issues with Tara and Willow because they just skipped the talk they needed to have.
3. Willow was only semi on the wagon. In most arcs like the one Willow's been going through there is a moment of falling off said wagon. Tara's death, as we see at the end of the episode, triggers that for Willow.
During the intial run, 15% of the fanbase disappeared after this episode.
Willow acting hurt over not knowing parts of Buffy's life again. She's done that before. Buffy's business isn't always her business just because they're friends. I'm glad Tara's there to say that to her with the line, "I think she was afraid of the look you'd get on your face. Kind of like the one you're wearing now."
Buffy and Xander from the time they met until now have been on friendly terms and even friends through Willow's friendship with each of them, but until the conversation they have just before Warren shows up, I don't think I believe their friendship could survive without Willow. In _The Pack,_ Xander lies to Buffy about not remembering what he did as a hyena. What his reasons are don't matter for the purposes of this theory.
The problem is that when Buffy finds out in _Phases,_ she makes the realization that Xander would do anything to avoid talking about important issues, from not talking directly about said issies and thus dealing with the fact that a hyena attempted to sexually assualt her using his feelings, to yelling at others about issues that aren't his issues, to magically making others sing instead of talking about his own said issues with Anya, etc.
When Buffy realizes he lied about the hyena, they never talk about any of their issues to one another because she realizes he can't and/or doesn't wish to. Xander yells at Buffy for her issues, and she only brings up his in anger when he's angry at her first. This episode is the first time I see them talking issues out and bringing their friendship up to a level where I feel it could survive without Willow as their third wheel bonding glue.
The only other time I feel they get close to doing so is in _The Freshman,_ but Xander flubs the advice and wants to get the group back together (in my opinion because Willow is better at what he still cannot do with Buffy, not just because Buffy is feeling down and she needs it). _The Freshman_ issues turn to a yelling match head in _The Yoko Factor,_ and while Willow was also a part of that, audiences know Xander and Willow could stand without Buffy, and Buffy and Willow could stand without Xander. At that point I don't feel Xander and Buffy could stand without Willow.
Not until this episode do I feel their friendship could survive without Willow. I feel like the conversation they have just before Tara's death is their most important in the series until now, which only makes it that much worse when Warren shows up and brings audiences out of BtVS's Sweet Summer Children phase aka Tara's death.
Poots are…mmm…tasty 🤤
@@paul4000 ?
“Clinked” is a modification of the slang term for being in jail as “being in the clink.” Not sure if that’s just an American slang term or if it’s simply so old now that younger reactors aren’t familiar with it.
Yes! I have heard of 'the clink' meaning 'jail' before. Somehow, I just didn't link that with it being used as a verb. 🤦♂I _wish_ I was a 'younger' reactor.! 😂I'll pretend that you put me in that category. 😁
@@jaypeakay5864 The writers for the show were very good at taking common phrases and tweaking them into something new. For instance an earlier season included the earliest media use of the word Google as a verb as in “she Googled you.” As for you being a younger reactor, I was already 29 when season six was airing. So yes, relatively speaking, you are a younger reactor . . . and that’s not an insult of any kind.
@@vandalhooch9773 Haha. Thanks. I'll take it. Honestly, I may be younger than some viewers but I'd imagine I'm at least 2 decades older than 95% of reactors. 😬 FWIW, I was also in my 20s in 2001. 😁
@@vandalhooch9773 y'all are youngsters! Born in 1957, this old guy was...
Buffy pretty much appeals to all age groups, I think. And watching others discover the magic of Buffy is a lot of fun even when reliving the worst moments with them. Shared pain is lessened, shared joy is increased.
This episode is so conflicting, because I hate almost every single thing that happens in it, but it's so well done in its horribleness... and the events it sets in motion are so very interesting.
I love your editing choices, by the way.
Thanks! I had to hold back on some editing choices; it was in danger of becoming disrespectful, given the themes of the episode. 😬
I hated, that the authors just missled the viewers with the rest of Spikes arc in the rest of the season.
Spike is definitely a polarizing character because he is so charming whereas Warren is pretty straightforward evil. I definitely feel like Andrew is in love with Warren with hero worship🌈😎
Oh no! You are on THIS episode. 😭
Got a beer. Now I’m ready to watch this.
The scene with Spike and Buffy was a huge betrayal by the writers. It wasn’t in character for Spike. Spike had shown his protective nature toward all the Somers women at various points in the show’s history. The writers have since admitted this was a step too far. The scene is actually based on an experience one of the female writers had. She took adavantage of a man in her younger days and was perhaps working through her own guilt about the event. Who knows, but it really upset me they did this to the character of Spike. James Marsters has cited the day they filmed it as the worst work experience of his career. He now has it written into all his contracts that he will not perform any scenes of this nature. It really traumatized him to perform that scene.
I also think killing Tara off was a mistake. I understand why they did it. It was to drive the plot for the final episodes of the season. I still think it was a mistake though. Season 7 would have been vastly improved if Tara had survived (I know you are many episodes ahead of your RUclips schedule - otherwise I wouldn’t have stated Tara was definitely dead).
Tough to rate this episode. It was well done. I still can’t say I love it though.
I'm so glad you felt that way about he writing. I felt _exactly_ the same - betrayed, let down, fooled... All of those things. Totally agree about rating it too. I had no idea what to rate it, TBH.
@@loftus4453 I don't think it is totally out of character for Spike - I think their whole relationship has been built on toxic behavior, many of their intimate encounters started out with violence done by both parties to each other.
But I do feel bad for James Marsters, this episode broke him. As you said, he really hated doing that scene, he needed counseling and he got that clause in his contracts that he'll never be asked to do that type of scene again. James Marsters is a good, decent human.
@@ernesthakey3396 Buffy and Spike’s relationship was indeed toxic from both sides. I agree there. Also, Spike isn’t a “good guy” character in the way we usually think of them. He is a deeply flawed and damaged character. His puts himself out there as the big bad, but the writers showed us repeatedly he empathized with others despite all that. The writers also showed us he was bullied by his mother, his friends and potential girlfriend during his human life. They took advantage of his kindness and meek nature. After he turns into a vampire, he desperately tries to erase the weaknesses he perceived in himself as a human. Despite his attempts to bury his human “deficiencies”, his kindness and ability to see when others were in pain was shown to us over and over through his interactions with others.
I didn’t say Spike’s relationships weren’t toxic on some level. He is a damaged individual after all and doesn’t seem to understand how to approach relationships in a healthy way. My point is the attempted rape scene was just too much. It was out of character based on everything the writers showed us over and over through 5 seasons. I felt betrayed by the writers. There were other ways they could have sent him off on his journey to retrieve his soul without that scene. I felt betrayed and misled by the writers after watching this episode.
This is all just my take on Spike of course. I just can’t understand why the writers went to all the trouble creating a deeply interesting, flawed, empathetic anti-hero only to burn it all down with one scene.
The first time I EVER cried over lesbians and im gay it was heart breaking. Then I cried to discover that actors who played Tara and Warren are in reality married 😢
They got married? 😲
@@jaypeakay5864 No, they never married. They just dated during that time.
We all already hated Warren. This episode just confirmed it. With a lot of other villains, you'll find someone who'll try to defend them, but not Warren XD
And yeah, I never liked Spike. I think I just always remembered all the little things, and so this episode doesn't surprise me. I know people are mad at Xander in this episode, and yet, he says quite clearly, he never forgot who Spike really is.
Anyway, can't wait for your reaction to what's left of the season!
Haha. I can see it. He's turned out to be the biggest villain of the show for me. He even beats Buffy's dad! 😁
Don't get to excited for the final 2 episode reactions - they both suck, especially the finale reaction. 🤦♂ I can only hope you like watching S7 reactions. Haha.
@@jaypeakay5864 XD I'll be watching season 7 for sure!
Yeah m8 this was the most shocking of all off buffy.... even the actor that planed spike said in interviews that he struggled with bathroom scene 😢
But I can't wait for you to get through this season it's epic!!! 👌
My reactions to the final 2 episodes are gonna disappoint you, I'm afraid. I didn't particularly like what happened so I was quite negative, and I lost the thread here and there too. Oh well, I can't undo those reactions. I can only hope you enjoy next season's uploads. 🤞
Oh, not this one. I hate this one. Now to watch it.
No, Spike said, "What did I do? What didn't I do?" not "Why didn't I do it?"
No, I'm pretty sure he did actually say, "Why didn't I do it?" He's asking himself why he stopped trying after she kicked him off. He asks himself this because he's supposed to be evil, that whole thing.
I was rooting for Spike and Buffy up until this point. I guess the “purpose” of the R scene is for Buffy to say “I can’t love because you don’t have a soul.” Showing Spike being soulless. This causes him leave and change himself. This could’ve been said in any of their previous conversations. Even Dawn could have a told him and it would’ve been more effective. I don’t why the show thought this was a good idea. Buffy deals with a lot of hot topics but this wasn’t handled well. I have to admit that I chose to ignore this part of Spikes story. In season 7 we can get more into the “does it matter” conversation.
Why would Spike ever think it was OK to force himself on Buffy? I mean they both have been taking no for an answer all season
He dated Dru for 100 years. After 100 years of pain and sex being combined, why WOULDN'T he think, in desperation, that it might work.
@@scottrabie no need to go back that far, he and Buffy literally destroyed a building the first time they had sex
An awful, no good, very bad episode. For me, Warren is definitely the worst Big Bad of the show. To say that I hate him is putting is very kindly.
31:50 What Spike was talking about was he originally came to Sunnydale to kill the Slayer. When he found out he could hurt her without feeling any pain, that gave Spike the advantage.
Spike could have killed Buffy at any point and time, his question was, why had he not done so. Hope that helps, that was my understanding.
That does help, and makes more sense. I get a bit lost sometimes. ☹
18:05 and Joss knew it.
Do you think he did deliberately to hurt us? It worked. Haha.