I agree. Shocking! These people turn in theoretical, impenetrable circles, and ultimately conclude that the campaign’s biggest issue is that it was misunderstood. This conversation is a reminder that two people forcefully agreeing with each other is no exploration at all.
@@Brianbrianbrian71 Me too. What happened to the centre left? These guys are massive wankers and all of a sudden Trumpisnm doesn't seem quite as unbelievable as it once did.
Exactly why the Democratic Party lost. Lots of people in the party thought that way. Things are good. We've been doing a great job. The economy is good. It's normal that some of the population get left behind and feel hopeless.
Thanks for giving us the viewpoint from inside the academic bubble and the NYT bubble. You know exactly what's going on in America! Sooooo enlightening.
Much better. A good chunk of Trump voters were open to Bernie Sanders’ message back in 2016. Just takes the neoliberals getting over themselves so we can make progress
Lol that’s a bit dramatic. Republicans contested 2.7 million democratic votes, Kamala did as well as Hillary with the electoral college and got further than Bernie Sanders ever did, along with breaking fundraising records, there’s also still a democrat in office. So calm down. Their likely won’t be a far left, DSA, Progressive movement or “Justice” Democrats any longer. NATO. This was about NATO. Turkey currently provides Ukraine military assistance because of NATO. The Turkish have exhausted resources bribing people like NYC’s Mayor Eric Adams. NYC conveniently being home to AOC of the Justice Democrats AND most importantly the DSA. There’s a far left movement in Turkey to pull out of NATO. Trump wants the dissolving of or US pull out of NATO. Tinfoil hat moment, but I don’t think the Mayor of Dearborn is really Arab. I am Arab and descended from Turkiyya now modern day Sudan. He looks Turkish. Homie could be Hasan Piker’s cousin, LOOK at him. We are “one Islam,” and The Ottoman Empire really did its thing until 1922 so we all have shared cultural elements and some features. So he could be Palestinian but I would not be surprised if he wasn’t and is actually Turkish. The Uncommitted Movement never made any sense. Why would you vote against democrats and for Trump to save Palestine when Trump: 1. Said “Finish the job,” referring to the Israeli genocide in Palestine. 2. Used Palestinian as a slur. 3. Has in the past enforced a Muslim ban. 4. And is best friends with Netanyahu. And Kamala Harris: 1. Called for a ceasefire in March of this year. 2. Met with Palestinians to discuss aid. 3. Met with The Uncommitted Movement to discuss their concerns. 4. Has on multiple occasions acknowledged the death of Palestinians and the need for critical aid. 5. Wanted a two state solution. And why was their “movement” focused on the president and not on congress? The choice to divest from Israel would predominantly rest on congressional movements not presidential policy. Either you have no political strategic prowess, this was just out of spite, OR… This was to manipulate the politically naïve and infamously vulnerable to foreign adversaries/influence left into voting against their and the people of Palestine and Ukraine’s best interests for your own political agenda. I mean we will know soon enough, Intelligence and The Bureau are definitely deep cover in Dearborn and likely have been investigating the DSA, CPC, and the “Justice” Democrats since 2016. The Eric Adams situation is also proof they know more than they let on to the public currently. That’s also why Biden likely kept bringing up NATO. And we already know both Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein have ties to Russia, who would also greatly benefit from NATO dissolving and/or Turkey pulling out. The far left you got PLAYED. And unfortunately Palestine and Ukraine will suffer for your naïveté, spite, and reactionary behavior.
@@DJchrismiller1well people did want populist economics in 2016, no? The idea I've heard broadly is that someone like Bernie could have won in 2016 if not crushed by the Dem elites, and then the wrong parts of progressivism were messaged in 2020 (like defund the police) instead of focusing on economic populism that actually is popular (Occupy Wall Street, child tax credit, stimulus checks that Trump actually supported, etc). I think this host could've said it a bit better, but she was spot on that America was ready for populism and it happened to be Trump that successfully sold it to the American people first
I’m a married gay white male in his early 40’s who has voted for the democratic presidential candidate in every election since 2000. I have a Bachelor’s degree in teaching that I earned right before the ‘08 recession and barely began my career before being laid and never since financially recovering. For what its worth I voted for Harris this election also… I live in a rural county in northwest Ohio that voted 75% trump/ 24% Harris this election… I now work in a retail supermarket that is HQ in Michigan (you can figure it out). I am telling you as a liberal, as a gay man in a same-sex marriage, as a white man, as a non-religious man, as someone with a University degree… This podcast analysis is utterly clueless to the reality of ordinary people… we’ve been told for several years now that the economy is doing great and blah blah blah… NOBODY around here sees it including me… Good for whom? People making $100k+ per year??? No one I know is making more than $20/hr and barely surviving…. Every company is obsessed with shareholder return and stock buyback nonsense while people care barely afford rent and buying a home is becoming impossible even in small rural areas… the entire economic system of the last 15-20 years is broken… back when I was growing up in the 80s/90s we had a 3 bedroom new build home on 90+ acres, a corvette, a a condo on Lake Erie with a 24 foot boat, multiple trips to cedar point amusement park every summer and any toy I ever wanted on my dad’s single factory income… that is beyond impossible now… the middle class has been completely hollowed out and the upper 1-5% has just sucked up every last spare crumb from the working class like a giant vacuum. I don’t get how all these companies expect to function when nobody can afford to buy their products, shop at their stores, or eat at their restaurants… how does that benefit anyone including the shareholders? I’m a liberal but I get completely why trump won… people cannot give a damn about anything other than themselves anymore because they see how much they’ve lost compared to their parents and their grandparents… very few people are better today than they were 25 years ago… yet over and over again the democrats utterly fail to grasp this… and the Democratic Party is just clueless when it comes to messaging… the Republicans have Fox News, NewsMax, NewsNation, the entire AM radio spectrum, all sorts of conservative bloggers and commentators who all blast out the extremely consistent nonsense made up message to people 24/7/365 for at least the last 30 years since Rush Limbaugh and Fox News came around and they have completely brainwashed a huge chunk of the American people into that message… the left and democrats have what… NPR and MSNBC??? I don’t even know what my point here is… I’m just floored at how clueless the democrats are at trying to win… I’m terrified of another 4 years of Trump but the democrats and left are completely clueless and useless to stop him… and when you rattle on like the women in this podcast I get why people cannot stand the messaging of the left… its become so arrogant, over-educated, woke, and it sounds very pompous… the only way democrats ever win anymore is when the republicans wreck things so badly what were on the brink of collapse… i.e. end of Bush/recession in 2008 and Trump with Covid in 2020… SMH.
I agree with everything you say, except I’ve never understood what’s supposed to be wrong with being over-educated. How have Americans come to believe education is bad. 🤯
@@juanmiguelreyesguerr don’t fall for this anti intellectual crap. Educate yourself and form your own opinions. The right wants us to be stupid. Don’t fall for it. Get all the education you can.
@@juanmiguelreyesguerr You have loads of people educated with degrees in subjects that are not vocational, but who are often excellent as managers/administrators in companies and organisations. But you there are not enough jobs to go round in those fields. So you end up with degree qualified baristas. Meanwhile you do not have enough plumbers. A lot of money has been spent/invested in people that is not going to have a productive outcome. It is the human equivalent of those infrastructure projects that are left unused. The difference is that with infrastructure it is generally the state that is left with debt and a useless asset (eg an airport that no one uses) while with education the debt sits with individuals.
Did you listen to the whole thing? Sounds like you did not. Towards the end she explicitly said the way that the left has been trying to cater to identities no longer serves any function, and actually hurts them . And then said that they need to rediscover the suffering of the working class, in a way that addresses the present realities of class conflict (as opposed to facile restoration of old class divisions the GOP favours). I don't think this is clueless at all. I think this is the first clue that they're getting really strongly right.
@@nem0763no she’s still tone deaf…. She’s trying to say certain groups don’t matter as much, or certain minority groups are more important? People of all demographics decided to ditch the Democratic Party this election because of people with the view of this woman still.
@@renholderm By bringing up black women, I don't think she meant to invoke identity politics, even if it unfortunately came off that way, I agree. I think she was actually getting at this: segments of the working class are divided against each other, when they could be unified in their struggle against inequality and in their demands for prosperity. The black woman working class vote basically went to the dems, while the white and latino (and substantially black male) working class vote largely skewed to Trump. She knows the black female vote isn't enough, or top priority, even if it is a _major portion_ of the working class. That's obvious. That's why the dems lost so badly. She is saying women of colour can be seen, tapped, and realigned as a segment of the working class that is already on board with the left.
Anything but to blame the Democrats lack of vision, lack of inclusivity, smugness, and self righteousness. Im tired of the academic and "profound" elite being the thought leaders of what once was a workign class party.
Inclusive? What does inclusiveness have to do with any of this? They didn't appeal to the working class. They wanted status quo or center-left, when people only want Right or Left.
That's exactly what they are saying about why the Democrats lost? They just said it in more nuanced language (perhaps the so-called academic language that you dislike)
And also saying they are perfectly willing to sell out their country's values and ideals over the price of eggs! My retirement income is below the poverty lne, but I will gladly eat fewer eggs before betraying my country.
And you're really saying the price of eggs should be blamed on Biden and the Dems? That's nonsense but is typical of failed citizens who can't bother informing themselves or standing up for democracy under threat from the anti-truth and anti-democracy gang led by the nose by trumputin.
Fox News Personalities do this implicitly every hour of every day. Explicitly stated like this is enraging, though. We expect better. Drop the condescension and call it an opinion.
Yes and no. I get what you mean, but I always read it as a way to highlight that these really are just Opinions, and not any actual reporting. So, or course they can be biased, wrong, good or bad. I don't really mind this strand of NYT as it seems that it really just wants to foster dialogue. Many often the guests miss the mark, but every so often a really good one comes through, and it is hard to get the latter without the former
As a former Bernie supporter who voted for Harris, this analysis is so out-of-touch with ordinary, everyday hard-working people that it’s unlistenable.
Key point "Generic Democrat" wasn't good enough. Trump is the worst person to ever run for president, and a majority of voters picked him because they still thought he was a better option than Democrats. Voters aren't the problem. The Democratic Party is.
The "generic Democrat" comment bothered me, as well. But I think they have a point. Harris failed to construct a narrative of why she was the best candidate for the job--like Obama did and like Trump has (though his claims are outrageous, they stick). I felt like Harris positioned herself as "Not Trump," but that wasn't enough. By contrast, Biden positioned himself as someone who could defeat Trump and work across the aisles. I'm not sure Harris ever did anything similar.
The price of eggs argument is hilarious and sums things up perfectly. Someone says they can’t afford eggs, these two project it into something more. Keep it up guys, the next 12 years are going to be MAGA
The price of eggs went up for me, too, but I still voted for Harris because I didn't understand how a corrupt billionaire who didn't do anything substantial for the economy during his first term was going to "fix the problem." I mean, I was here during 2016-2020. And then there was that little thing about his being a compulsive liar and a convicted felon. It was hard to overlook.
I find the idea of Trump becoming the President again quite disappointing. However, since his victory, my pension fund has increased in value £2300! Shows how the stock market works to profit from such things.
The FTC has made landmark decision after landmark decision under Lina Khan’s guidance. The Google antitrust suit is likely to cease under a Trump admin. We’re going to see more mergers and acquisitions… so more monopolies. Did the democrats do enough? No, they never do, and that’s why people get upset. But banning non-compete clauses, forcing airlines to give people cash refunds for canceled flights no questions asked. Forcing the cancelation of a monthly subscription to be as easy as signing up. Those were all meaningful decisions the FTC made… and now it’s cooked
You care. Studies of paired border cities large & small on the US/Mexico border - and the economic differences between them - demonstrated that the biggest difference was available cash and credit. You want money sloshing around in and between companies. It enables secular economic growth and opportunity. Stock market is a mechanism of that in the US.
"Let's blame the electorate?" You didn't watch the video or listen did you? The whole video, down to the title, blames democratic leadership and says that they made stupid assumptions about what the electorate wants. That's literally this video. Maybe pay better attention and see that they agree with you before putting them down?
@@jessjs57 Listen again. "The anger that Americans feel can't be directed at the truth." "They have a toxic anger" "They fell for the Right's mythic promise of an old America."
@ they still didn’t blame them. They are calling out the truth. Americans are angry. And to call it anything but toxic is naive. You could call it a “righteous anger” if you like, but people are looking at the past like it was rosy. It was rosy to some people for sure, but those times trampled on the rights of women and people of color. Trump tapped into that anger and can speak to that demographic in a way that resonates with them. Democrats need to learn how to talk to that demographic. Plain and simple.
"I reject the economic anxiety argument... not because there isn't empirical truth to it" but because she doesn't like the way people use the argument. And that right there is why we lose and will continue to lose. As Democrats we have to accept that the working class wins elections and that we have left the working class behind - in our policies, in our messaging, and in our mentality.
@@veritusahriman9720see, it shouldn’t even be about that. It was just never right to treat hardworking decent people like disposable trash in the first place. Even when your coalition of fringe minorities was bulletproof for winning. Both parties need to look out for all Americans even when they don’t need to use them selfishly to win. None of us should live in fear that if the one side wins that doesn’t depend on our vote to win then it will be open season on us. We depend on our leaders to look out for us. That’s reason I’m itself to act with good will toward all the American people even if they don’t vote for you.
They are journalists, but this is not reportage; it's OPINION. Thus, as journalists AND human beings, they are allowed to be emotional. Please learn the distinction.
they are lol. the average voter has no idea how tariffs work. the fact that the border was such a big issue for voters is also a testament to that. there's literally nothing special about the border or migration compared to other years except that the republicans will not STFU about it. They basically forced it into an issue and then blocked any resolution to it in congress. It's a manufactured issue. The texas governor literally impeded border patrol from doing their job and is illegally shipping people waiting for their trials out to other states, essentially helping migrants further into the country and evading deportation lol.
@@snowballeffect7812it’s a manufactured issue because the Biden administration purposefully opened the border and encouraged foreigners to enter the country at breakneck rates. And the main motivation for it is that Democrats want to change the demographic composition of the country so they can dominate federal elections like they do in California. It is absolutely criminal that a leadership class would enact any form of mass immigration when the economic status of the lower-to-middle class is dropping.
When people are talking about the price of eggs, they are talking about the price of eggs. I love the use of "toxic" anger and we are going backwards. More liberal coastal elite talk. Florida and Texas are red and they are the most diverse and growing economies in the US.
Is this a joke? The title of this describes the participants perfectly! This belongs on Saturday night live. Keep up the good work. You're why Trump won!!!
Unfortunately, as someone who voted for Harris and has spent time in east coast places of liberal power, it appears that the hubris reaches up to the NYT editorial board.
The comment about "Women were finally supposed to see their self intrest." And the casual notion that defunding law enforcement just didn't play out as well as it should, both show that they have yet to learn anything and this tirade of "Introspection" is very premature. Edit: The more I continue to listen everything they say is wrong, it's amazing not one thing!
Please explain the "anger" of Trump voters who complain about inflation but can also afford to buy endless amounts of Trump merchandise. You didn't make the effort or take the time to get educated in school so now your life sucks and you want someone to come save you from your own stupidity, that's Trump's base.
I thought this video was going to be more about Libs and Proggies admitting for once how damaging is their hubris and arrogance to their politics. Instead the video is a vivid demonstration of what hubris and arrogance is.😂
If only money were grown in university gardens noone would ever go hungry seems to be the sentiment of two people who clearly have never done a hard working job and are scoffing at the idea of a factory being built!!
You sound like very nice people but you really have no idea what 'real' people think. I worked in universities for years and you talk the way they talk, but which makes no sense to anyone not in higher education and studying that stuff. It's 'academic' and divorced from the reality of most people's everyday lives, which aren't concerned with gender issues but paying the mortgage.
These two are exactly what you call “Educated fools”. Speaking tons of words but communicating no sense at all. Zero understanding of the basic economics concept. They are the typical product of the failing higher education in the US. Absolutely clueless about why they lost.
@@joseflemire4284 I just watched an interview with some of the trump supporters not republican trump supporters who are out here saying an extra 500 dollars a month would not help them feed their kids … bro … and I’m considered out of touch for voting dem?? BROOOO!!!!!!
NYT needs to send what reporters they have left outside of NYC and live a year as a normal American. I'm sick of the rich coastal dong sucking that every NYT article exudes.
Lol. It’s unreal how out of touch these folks are. Amazing that the pain in my bank account outweighs the never ending discussion of identity politics.
You apparently weren't listening or comprehending. And the biggest issue not taken up here is not what the Dems did wrong but what the electorate did to betray our country with gross ignorance, irrational thinking and the childish desire for something "different" as the standard complaint whenever the world isn't conforming to your unreasonable expectations--such as inflation, that raised prices and obviously impacted average Americans but was a global problem in which the US did better than other countries and it was NOT Biden's fault. In fact, the economy overall is strong, inflation has come down to pretty standard rates and wages are increasing, new jobs are being added at record rates, unemployment is historically low, etc.
When the Republican opponent is a convicted felon, admits to groping women and staged a televised attempted coup, what do you think Dems could have done "better?" America loathes itself.
except they literally said they needed better messaging and separation from biden and to directly address "real" issues of the working class. where are these commenters coming from lol. this isn't even a problem of reading comprehension, but just basic listening ability at this point lol.
Not one word about what the Democrats could have done better in the comments section either. Maybe the podcast is clueless but the commenters are equally clueless.
Oh.. this is terrible, how could this even happen. Harris loses the electoral collage, the popular vote, the senate, the house and DT gets to pick judges for another 4 years. How could this happen!?
As a 54-year-old with a lifetime observing politics, I've seen the 'last gasp' narrative about certain political groups repeated. Yet, here we are, still debating. It seems the 'death' of certain ideologies is greatly exaggerated. Can we truly move forward if we constantly dismiss our opponents as outdated?
I seem to remember a lot of podcasts circa 2016 that had the same exact title as this video. It's almost like the Democratic Party learned nothing after that election.
This was obvious when they lost the Presidency in 2016. But they keep telling themselves, even now the day after another loss, the stories that make them feel better instead of realizing that the issues that are important to them are not necessarily the issues that are important to the voters who matter.
So 'high brow" , these people and their comments are so far removed from reality that they might as well be on a different continent. These hosts need to reflect on their hubris, they're so condescending to people who didn't vote Kamala. For me it was all about economy. When Kamala was asked if Americans are now better or worse than four years ago, she ditched the question. If she just plain said that we are worse then four years ago, she would have had my vote. CNN and NYT kept saying that economy is great, and they were bringing up all the fancy numbers and metrics to prove it. But what I cared is that my grocery bill is way higher than it was four years ago despite cutting off some of the foods that I used to buy. That despite making more than 100k a year , I still can't afford to buy a decent home for my family. Democratic party and dem leaning media are so far removed from what people are actually care about that it was no surprise to me that they lost. On top of that they are so condescending, and talk to opposite side like we are retarded. "You don't know sh!!t. You're are wrong, economy is great, look at this fancy graph that we have , it shows economy is great, so you're wrong. Your grocery bill? that's not important, look at our fancy graph again. " They were claiming that economy is good because consumer spending is up... Of course it is up, everything costs more. It's not me buying more stuff, it's me paying more for the same amount of stuff as before. Seriously, Dems, you need to stop thinking that people on the other side are stupid.
"CNN and NYT kept saying that economy is great, and they were bringing up all the fancy numbers and metrics to prove it." It is, especially compared to Europe. "But what I cared is that my grocery bill is way higher than it was four years ago despite cutting off some of the foods that I used to buy. That despite making more than 100k a year" How are you having problems buying groceries if you earn over 100K? "I still can't afford to buy a decent home for my family." That's more due to where you live.
I just LOVE how the black sounding woman blithely disregards OUR economic concerns as *presented all wrong* and that *paper over racial issues*. Madam we no longer care how you feel. To the other one.. *you* can't "empathize" other people's way out of suffering your elitist class CAUSE. When you even start talking the problem immediately becomes insoluble. Because your sort of people must NEVER be allowed to lead again. Not even on an interpersonal private level.
My 2 cents as a centrist libertarian non American “minority” woman. I don’t like Trump, I think he’s a textbook narcissist and he says stupid shit all the time, but if I was American and I had to vote I would’ve voted for him in the election. Simply because the Dems have gone so far to the left when it comes to identity politics and their immigration policy is absolute rubbish. I’m all for LGBTQ rights and adults should be able to do whatever they want to do, but I disagree with allowing minors to alter their hormones/bodies with permanent repercussions when they’re not even old enough to vote or get a tattoo. We all know how susceptible teenagers are. Had I grown up in this era as a teenager I probably would’ve thought I was a trans too since I was a tomboy and often wished I was a man instead during my puberty. Allowing trans athletes in women’s sports are also deeply problematic and imo, very much anti women. Illegal immigration was out of control (and yes republican blocked their latest bill to address this for their self interest) but they’d let it get so bad for so many years. Inflation was so high and cost of living pressures definitely would’ve been one of the main influence too, although I do understand that post-COVID most countries went thru the same thing and it’s naive to think that had Trump been in power he would’ve done much better. However, the dems proposed economic policies left a lot to be desired. They were screaming about abortion rights but they’ve been in power for 4 years and they hadn’t managed to change anything that Trump did. They are only using it as a tool to get people to vote against Trump, not because they genuinely believe they can do shit about it.
This! And that's why the abortion didn't win it for them. After decades people finally saw through the BS. Kamala would have done absolutely nothing on abortion.
"Democrats Had a Theory of the Election." Correction, it seems to me that they had a "Concept of the Election". Polls do not win elections, people do, and as one famous politician said years ago "It's the economy stupid". Do with that comment what you will.
As a Republican who voted his first Democrat presidential candidate ever, I can't even listen to this podcast after 10 minutes. Can't stand anything Trump stands for, but the reason Harris lost is that Dems are constantly telling America how bad we are. For example, listen to Obama chastise black men & then more black men vote Republican than ever before. MAGA may be wrong about almost everything, but at least MAGA thinks Americans are and can be great. The Democrat message is that Americans are not great even though we have led the most prosperous and peaceful world history since WWII. Of course there are a lot of bad things that happen in the US, but there are worse things that happen in most other places in the world. We always need to try and be better, but Democrats only focus on labeling who is bad and how bad they are. Maybe Democrats should start to talk about who is good. Btw, Bad Bunny & Beyonce don't add much to the conversation other than to gloss over what's important
Donald Trump called America a "Garbage Can." I've never seen a candidate hurl so many insults at so many people. I can't cite a single "policy" Trump has except he *hates* whatever he thinks the audience he's speaking to is unhappy with. When you say "Dems are constantly telling America how bad we are," you're not adequately expressing what you mean or what I saw. I have voted Republican since 1980 but Never-Trump since 2016.
You were so close until you got to the 9 minute mark. It’s NOT about better messaging. It literally is, majority of Americans don’t believe in defunding police. Majority of Americans don’t believe/accept identity politics. The answer is NOT “Democrats need to sell these topics better.” The answer IS “Yeah, we’re not going to align ourselves with them anymore.”
I listened to this hoping I would hear a clear explanation of what happened, but I was extremely disappointed. The NYT learned nothing from this defeat and continues to talk condescendingly about Trump and his supporters. The NYT made be part of the reason Harris lost.
Omg… these two are clueless. They don’t live in our version of reality. It’s dirty and gritty. Living paycheck to paycheck. Worried about the health, wealth, and mental health of our kids and families. Reality is the my family was better off financially when Trump was in office. Not so much under Biden. And that doesn’t mean I voted for hate as if I’m some demon. I voted for the best interest of my family.
Imagine a world where republicans ran an ad insinuating that liberal men should not be honest with their wife in the voting booth. Idiotic that they thought Liz Cheney and this commercial were the ticket to victory.
Oh not only the "Lie to your husband's about your vote" platform, but the Harris campaign also ran an ad telling them that if they don't vote for her they won't get laid (seriously). They're just out to alienate everyone lol
They cackled about America being the richest country in the world (6:50) but on a per person basis that is just objectively false. There are numerous countries where people have a higher standard of living than America, and they have less immigrants.
The guest is pretty good, but reparations, again? Seriously stil? There are no longer any slave owners or slaves, so her analogy about the end of slavery is woefully out of date. Some times smart people get hung-up emotionally on some silly point completely out of kilter with society.
“Do better at that messaging” are you fkn kidding me? Your message is completely tone deaf and irrelevant to most of us. You chose social justice issues when we are dealing with economic issues. You guys are so stuck on identity politics that you’re gonna keep losing. Clueless post-mortems like this will only lead to continued failure
You completely missed the mark. Talk to normal people and stop reading blogs. Nobody cares if someone is a woman, nobody cares about race. The more you say that's why, the more right everyone goes. People are sick of the identity crap, and we are running from it in droves.
15:10 this lady just went from talking about rediscovering class politics and unironically attemping to equate it with identity politics. The issue with identity politics is not it in it of itself but the use of identity politics to disregard the preceived real concerns of the working class constituants that include all sorts of identities.
You people never learn. In a far away India, there is lot of optimism that family as a concept will survive and gender as a binary will survive...thanks to conservative win. Whatever be the inadequacies of Trump as a person he represented the last hope for these two constructs in the world to survive.
Issues for the former dems who defected to the right in my area (swing state) were border and unchecked illegal immigration, crime, economy and runaway prices on housing and staple items, trans/DEI forced culture, homelessness, and Israel. Reproductive rights were already being addressed at my state level. Not sure how the DNC missed all of this.
Exactly. Several of those states had abortion ballot measures, allowing voters to basically split the ticket and vote for abortion and for Trump. It was incredibly daft by the Dems. The Dems really going back quite far have a hard time meeting voters where they're at; I mean the fatal flaw of the Biden admin was to basically ignore like 6 major issues that are bugging people and just focus on what the admin wanted and figure the rest will sort itself out especially if you can just say "well unemployment numbers are low and wages are going up" is condescending when 100 million people are screaming about what it's like on the ground out there. Just pretending there was nothing the WH could have done 2+ years ago at the border and then looking for legislative coverage from its own left flank which put the power into the GOP and Trump's hands was beyond stupid and not actually understanding the public -- I come from a Hispanic background and I have like zero in common with the migrants. And yeah, we can go down the list.
I think you're 100% right at 5:38 on the lack of a vision of progress. Tinkering around the edges is not enough when people see there are fundamental issues that Democrats don't want to talk about.
@@matthewm2139 they’re definitely right about that. There was a lack of vision. I mean the Democrats message fundamentally is. Things are doing OK. Give our policies time to work. They just didn’t have like a good message a good vision to sell people. I am still convinced maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I am convinced inflation will no longer be a big deal within a month of the Trump presidency. This was literally all vibes. He can do nothing and people will say that inflation is down. People will say everything’s fine. All we can do is hope that Trump won’t mess everything up, but we’ll see.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
I thought the title would be you guys talking about dems hubris and not being the prime examples of it
I agree. Shocking! These people turn in theoretical, impenetrable circles, and ultimately conclude that the campaign’s biggest issue is that it was misunderstood. This conversation is a reminder that two people forcefully agreeing with each other is no exploration at all.
@@Brianbrianbrian71 Me too. What happened to the centre left? These guys are massive wankers and all of a sudden Trumpisnm doesn't seem quite as unbelievable as it once did.
touche
They’ve been the prime examples of it for years now, why stop now while they’re on a roll?
Exactly why the Democratic Party lost. Lots of people in the party thought that way. Things are good. We've been doing a great job. The economy is good. It's normal that some of the population get left behind and feel hopeless.
the title of this video should be "The Hubris Of 2 New York Times Opinion Columnists"
Thanks for giving us the viewpoint from inside the academic bubble and the NYT bubble. You know exactly what's going on in America! Sooooo enlightening.
Wow, your final take away proves you have no clue what's happening out here. The establishment is done.
If they went for someone who was not establishment like a younger version of Bernie would they have done better or worse?
Much better. A good chunk of Trump voters were open to Bernie Sanders’ message back in 2016. Just takes the neoliberals getting over themselves so we can make progress
@@His.Lordshipway worse.
@@His.Lordship Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016. The DNC pushed him out. This is the quintessential example of the establishment.
Biden literally won 80 million votes. He flipped Georgia and Arizona. Do you really think an anti establishment candidate could do better?
The lack of insight and self-reflection is truly unbelievable. Keep it up, and sadly, we will never see a viable Democratic Party again.
Lol that’s a bit dramatic. Republicans contested 2.7 million democratic votes, Kamala did as well as Hillary with the electoral college and got further than Bernie Sanders ever did, along with breaking fundraising records, there’s also still a democrat in office. So calm down.
Their likely won’t be a far left, DSA, Progressive movement or “Justice” Democrats any longer.
NATO.
This was about NATO.
Turkey currently provides Ukraine military assistance because of NATO.
The Turkish have exhausted resources bribing people like NYC’s Mayor Eric Adams. NYC conveniently being home to AOC of the Justice Democrats AND most importantly the DSA.
There’s a far left movement in Turkey to pull out of NATO.
Trump wants the dissolving of or US pull out of NATO.
Tinfoil hat moment, but I don’t think the Mayor of Dearborn is really Arab. I am Arab and descended from Turkiyya now modern day Sudan. He looks Turkish. Homie could be Hasan Piker’s cousin, LOOK at him. We are “one Islam,” and The Ottoman Empire really did its thing until 1922 so we all have shared cultural elements and some features. So he could be Palestinian but I would not be surprised if he wasn’t and is actually Turkish.
The Uncommitted Movement never made any sense. Why would you vote against democrats and for Trump to save Palestine when Trump:
1. Said “Finish the job,” referring to the Israeli genocide in Palestine.
2. Used Palestinian as a slur.
3. Has in the past enforced a Muslim ban.
4. And is best friends with Netanyahu.
And Kamala Harris:
1. Called for a ceasefire in March of this year.
2. Met with Palestinians to discuss aid.
3. Met with The Uncommitted Movement to discuss their concerns.
4. Has on multiple occasions acknowledged the death of Palestinians and the need for critical aid.
5. Wanted a two state solution.
And why was their “movement” focused on the president and not on congress? The choice to divest from Israel would predominantly rest on congressional movements not presidential policy.
Either you have no political strategic prowess, this was just out of spite, OR…
This was to manipulate the politically naïve and infamously vulnerable to foreign adversaries/influence left into voting against their and the people of Palestine and Ukraine’s best interests for your own political agenda.
I mean we will know soon enough, Intelligence and The Bureau are definitely deep cover in Dearborn and likely have been investigating the DSA, CPC, and the “Justice” Democrats since 2016. The Eric Adams situation is also proof they know more than they let on to the public currently. That’s also why Biden likely kept bringing up NATO.
And we already know both Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein have ties to Russia, who would also greatly benefit from NATO dissolving and/or Turkey pulling out.
The far left you got PLAYED.
And unfortunately Palestine and Ukraine will suffer for your naïveté, spite, and reactionary behavior.
These two are delusional, holy shit
“The people want a change….” So let’s give them more of the same! 😂 great job.
"They actually do want that message" ... 🤣
@@DJchrismiller1well people did want populist economics in 2016, no? The idea I've heard broadly is that someone like Bernie could have won in 2016 if not crushed by the Dem elites, and then the wrong parts of progressivism were messaged in 2020 (like defund the police) instead of focusing on economic populism that actually is popular (Occupy Wall Street, child tax credit, stimulus checks that Trump actually supported, etc). I think this host could've said it a bit better, but she was spot on that America was ready for populism and it happened to be Trump that successfully sold it to the American people first
I’m a married gay white male in his early 40’s who has voted for the democratic presidential candidate in every election since 2000. I have a Bachelor’s degree in teaching that I earned right before the ‘08 recession and barely began my career before being laid and never since financially recovering. For what its worth I voted for Harris this election also… I live in a rural county in northwest Ohio that voted 75% trump/ 24% Harris this election… I now work in a retail supermarket that is HQ in Michigan (you can figure it out). I am telling you as a liberal, as a gay man in a same-sex marriage, as a white man, as a non-religious man, as someone with a University degree… This podcast analysis is utterly clueless to the reality of ordinary people… we’ve been told for several years now that the economy is doing great and blah blah blah… NOBODY around here sees it including me… Good for whom? People making $100k+ per year??? No one I know is making more than $20/hr and barely surviving…. Every company is obsessed with shareholder return and stock buyback nonsense while people care barely afford rent and buying a home is becoming impossible even in small rural areas… the entire economic system of the last 15-20 years is broken… back when I was growing up in the 80s/90s we had a 3 bedroom new build home on 90+ acres, a corvette, a a condo on Lake Erie with a 24 foot boat, multiple trips to cedar point amusement park every summer and any toy I ever wanted on my dad’s single factory income… that is beyond impossible now… the middle class has been completely hollowed out and the upper 1-5% has just sucked up every last spare crumb from the working class like a giant vacuum. I don’t get how all these companies expect to function when nobody can afford to buy their products, shop at their stores, or eat at their restaurants… how does that benefit anyone including the shareholders? I’m a liberal but I get completely why trump won… people cannot give a damn about anything other than themselves anymore because they see how much they’ve lost compared to their parents and their grandparents… very few people are better today than they were 25 years ago… yet over and over again the democrats utterly fail to grasp this… and the Democratic Party is just clueless when it comes to messaging… the Republicans have Fox News, NewsMax, NewsNation, the entire AM radio spectrum, all sorts of conservative bloggers and commentators who all blast out the extremely consistent nonsense made up message to people 24/7/365 for at least the last 30 years since Rush Limbaugh and Fox News came around and they have completely brainwashed a huge chunk of the American people into that message… the left and democrats have what… NPR and MSNBC??? I don’t even know what my point here is… I’m just floored at how clueless the democrats are at trying to win… I’m terrified of another 4 years of Trump but the democrats and left are completely clueless and useless to stop him… and when you rattle on like the women in this podcast I get why people cannot stand the messaging of the left… its become so arrogant, over-educated, woke, and it sounds very pompous… the only way democrats ever win anymore is when the republicans wreck things so badly what were on the brink of collapse… i.e. end of Bush/recession in 2008 and Trump with Covid in 2020… SMH.
neoliberalism is dead.
Agree 100% The Dems are so out of touch it’s hilarious and depressing at the same time
I agree with everything you say, except I’ve never understood what’s supposed to be wrong with being over-educated. How have Americans come to believe education is bad. 🤯
@@juanmiguelreyesguerr don’t fall for this anti intellectual crap. Educate yourself and form your own opinions. The right wants us to be stupid. Don’t fall for it. Get all the education you can.
@@juanmiguelreyesguerr You have loads of people educated with degrees in subjects that are not vocational, but who are often excellent as managers/administrators in companies and organisations. But you there are not enough jobs to go round in those fields. So you end up with degree qualified baristas. Meanwhile you do not have enough plumbers. A lot of money has been spent/invested in people that is not going to have a productive outcome. It is the human equivalent of those infrastructure projects that are left unused. The difference is that with infrastructure it is generally the state that is left with debt and a useless asset (eg an airport that no one uses) while with education the debt sits with individuals.
I hate trump but this analysis is clueless. Ditch the identity stuff. Please. You think you’re helping but you’re not.
they are only their identity analysis. They have nothing else to offer.
Did you listen to the whole thing? Sounds like you did not. Towards the end she explicitly said the way that the left has been trying to cater to identities no longer serves any function, and actually hurts them . And then said that they need to rediscover the suffering of the working class, in a way that addresses the present realities of class conflict (as opposed to facile restoration of old class divisions the GOP favours). I don't think this is clueless at all. I think this is the first clue that they're getting really strongly right.
@@nem0763no she’s still tone deaf…. She’s trying to say certain groups don’t matter as much, or certain minority groups are more important? People of all demographics decided to ditch the Democratic Party this election because of people with the view of this woman still.
@@nem0763ok, but then immediately after she said that it's minority women. (...which generally supported kamela??)
@@renholderm By bringing up black women, I don't think she meant to invoke identity politics, even if it unfortunately came off that way, I agree. I think she was actually getting at this: segments of the working class are divided against each other, when they could be unified in their struggle against inequality and in their demands for prosperity. The black woman working class vote basically went to the dems, while the white and latino (and substantially black male) working class vote largely skewed to Trump. She knows the black female vote isn't enough, or top priority, even if it is a _major portion_ of the working class. That's obvious. That's why the dems lost so badly. She is saying women of colour can be seen, tapped, and realigned as a segment of the working class that is already on board with the left.
Anything but to blame the Democrats lack of vision, lack of inclusivity, smugness, and self righteousness. Im tired of the academic and "profound" elite being the thought leaders of what once was a workign class party.
You left out one key word: *HATE* - Dems hatred of this country, of anyone who even slightly disagrees with their narrow, selfish views.
DEI, defund the Police, transcraze , mass immigration
Inclusive? What does inclusiveness have to do with any of this? They didn't appeal to the working class. They wanted status quo or center-left, when people only want Right or Left.
That's exactly what they are saying about why the Democrats lost? They just said it in more nuanced language (perhaps the so-called academic language that you dislike)
Blame the Democrats? How about blaming the Republicans for being dipshits?
“When people say they’re worried about the price of eggs they’re actually saying…” NO DUDE WE’RE WORRIED ABOUT THE PRICE OF EGGS MAN
That line right there perfectly encapsulates the attitude that lost them the election. Talk about hubris!
And also saying they are perfectly willing to sell out their country's values and ideals over the price of eggs! My retirement income is below the poverty lne, but I will gladly eat fewer eggs before betraying my country.
@@Sharon-w4j So true.
And you're really saying the price of eggs should be blamed on Biden and the Dems? That's nonsense but is typical of failed citizens who can't bother informing themselves or standing up for democracy under threat from the anti-truth and anti-democracy gang led by the nose by trumputin.
Its that simple
"You've heard the news, here's what to make of it." What a obscenely arrogant statement to begin with.
Why?
Fox News Personalities do this implicitly every hour of every day. Explicitly stated like this is enraging, though. We expect better. Drop the condescension and call it an opinion.
Yes and no. I get what you mean, but I always read it as a way to highlight that these really are just Opinions, and not any actual reporting.
So, or course they can be biased, wrong, good or bad. I don't really mind this strand of NYT as it seems that it really just wants to foster dialogue.
Many often the guests miss the mark, but every so often a really good one comes through, and it is hard to get the latter without the former
The section is literally labelled opinions you dunce
@@jadedbrad Yeah, and unlike Democrats, most Republicans don't slavishly follow Fox News. If they did, Trump wouldn't have won in the first place.
Clueless. Legacy media is done.
As a former Bernie supporter who voted for Harris, this analysis is so out-of-touch with ordinary, everyday hard-working people that it’s unlistenable.
Where have these columnists been living? Jesus Christ.
Key point "Generic Democrat" wasn't good enough. Trump is the worst person to ever run for president, and a majority of voters picked him because they still thought he was a better option than Democrats. Voters aren't the problem. The Democratic Party is.
The "generic Democrat" comment bothered me, as well. But I think they have a point. Harris failed to construct a narrative of why she was the best candidate for the job--like Obama did and like Trump has (though his claims are outrageous, they stick). I felt like Harris positioned herself as "Not Trump," but that wasn't enough. By contrast, Biden positioned himself as someone who could defeat Trump and work across the aisles. I'm not sure Harris ever did anything similar.
Holy shit this podcast is unlistenable.
The other NYT politics podcasts have been quite good. The ones with the employees, that is.
No no, this is absolutely hysterical! 🤣 Best comedy on the youtubes! 🙌
The price of eggs argument is hilarious and sums things up perfectly. Someone says they can’t afford eggs, these two project it into something more. Keep it up guys, the next 12 years are going to be MAGA
The price of eggs went up for me, too, but I still voted for Harris because I didn't understand how a corrupt billionaire who didn't do anything substantial for the economy during his first term was going to "fix the problem." I mean, I was here during 2016-2020. And then there was that little thing about his being a compulsive liar and a convicted felon. It was hard to overlook.
At this rate and after seeing how delusional they are heck I may even vote for Marjorie Taylor Greene
@@papercityvlogs4325 Just know there are plenty of Democrats who hate these establishment hacks
Weird spin. Wholly disconnected. Over-simplification. Where's the part where you recognize the hubris?
damn she even said she got emotional over reparations not happening yall are mf crazy
I dont own stock what do i care if the stock market is booming? When did the democrats stand up to monopolies and banks?
I find the idea of Trump becoming the President again quite disappointing. However, since his victory, my pension fund has increased in value £2300! Shows how the stock market works to profit from such things.
The FTC has made landmark decision after landmark decision under Lina Khan’s guidance. The Google antitrust suit is likely to cease under a Trump admin. We’re going to see more mergers and acquisitions… so more monopolies. Did the democrats do enough? No, they never do, and that’s why people get upset. But banning non-compete clauses, forcing airlines to give people cash refunds for canceled flights no questions asked. Forcing the cancelation of a monthly subscription to be as easy as signing up. Those were all meaningful decisions the FTC made… and now it’s cooked
You care. Studies of paired border cities large & small on the US/Mexico border - and the economic differences between them - demonstrated that the biggest difference was available cash and credit. You want money sloshing around in and between companies. It enables secular economic growth and opportunity. Stock market is a mechanism of that in the US.
So buy some stocks... pick some good ones ans hold on to it
@@eddyr1041 with what money
Oh good. More of this "let's blame the electorate" nonsense. You guys need to wake up, or it's going to be worse in 2028.
They cant . If the takeaway isnt ‘americans are racist’ then their worldview collapses
"Let's blame the electorate?" You didn't watch the video or listen did you? The whole video, down to the title, blames democratic leadership and says that they made stupid assumptions about what the electorate wants. That's literally this video. Maybe pay better attention and see that they agree with you before putting them down?
They did not blame anyone but the Democratic Party.
@@jessjs57 Listen again. "The anger that Americans feel can't be directed at the truth." "They have a toxic anger" "They fell for the Right's mythic promise of an old America."
@ they still didn’t blame them. They are calling out the truth. Americans are angry. And to call it anything but toxic is naive. You could call it a “righteous anger” if you like, but people are looking at the past like it was rosy. It was rosy to some people for sure, but those times trampled on the rights of women and people of color. Trump tapped into that anger and can speak to that demographic in a way that resonates with them.
Democrats need to learn how to talk to that demographic. Plain and simple.
"I reject the economic anxiety argument... not because there isn't empirical truth to it" but because she doesn't like the way people use the argument. And that right there is why we lose and will continue to lose. As Democrats we have to accept that the working class wins elections and that we have left the working class behind - in our policies, in our messaging, and in our mentality.
❤❤❤
hard truths to swallow, but necessary if we ever want to win an election again.
The working class exists to be abused by Left-leaning ‘opinions journalism’ people.
@@veritusahriman9720see, it shouldn’t even be about that. It was just never right to treat hardworking decent people like disposable trash in the first place. Even when your coalition of fringe minorities was bulletproof for winning. Both parties need to look out for all Americans even when they don’t need to use them selfishly to win. None of us should live in fear that if the one side wins that doesn’t depend on our vote to win then it will be open season on us. We depend on our leaders to look out for us. That’s reason I’m itself to act with good will toward all the American people even if they don’t vote for you.
This podcast takes 1000 words to say practically nothing.
Arent these supposed to be journalists. Theyre so emotional. Theyre not journalists.
They are journalists, but this is not reportage; it's OPINION. Thus, as journalists AND human beings, they are allowed to be emotional. Please learn the distinction.
These two absolutely embody why the Democrats lost so badly. They still think the voters are misinformed.
they are lol. the average voter has no idea how tariffs work. the fact that the border was such a big issue for voters is also a testament to that. there's literally nothing special about the border or migration compared to other years except that the republicans will not STFU about it. They basically forced it into an issue and then blocked any resolution to it in congress. It's a manufactured issue. The texas governor literally impeded border patrol from doing their job and is illegally shipping people waiting for their trials out to other states, essentially helping migrants further into the country and evading deportation lol.
@@snowballeffect7812 So how do you explain that graph of illegal migrants spiking during the Biden admin? CBS even showed the graph to Kamala Harris.
@@snowballeffect7812it’s a manufactured issue because the Biden administration purposefully opened the border and encouraged foreigners to enter the country at breakneck rates. And the main motivation for it is that Democrats want to change the demographic composition of the country so they can dominate federal elections like they do in California.
It is absolutely criminal that a leadership class would enact any form of mass immigration when the economic status of the lower-to-middle class is dropping.
@@snowballeffect7812 it's a manufactured issue? Why did Obama deport so many then?
Can’t believe the Liz Cheney vote didn’t come through :(
Well Kamala is a black woman. You really think undecided Republicans could see past that?
Liz Cheney was a freshman member of congress.
Wow it's almost like the politician universally hated by Democrats and universally hated by Republicans would have ZERO constituency
@@DesertNavy I think he was referring to her endorsement of Kamala.
Remind me: did Liz disavow her father?
I love these deep discussions were both participants are in a sealed bubble, compeletely agree with each other and are completely wrong!
“I have a house there,” isn not a sentence of anyone we need to hear about our current daily struggles from.
You want to double down on identity politics?!?! This is insanity.
When people are talking about the price of eggs, they are talking about the price of eggs. I love the use of "toxic" anger and we are going backwards. More liberal coastal elite talk. Florida and Texas are red and they are the most diverse and growing economies in the US.
Just look at the blue states like NY and IL. Completely gutted and losing population.
Is this a joke? The title of this describes the participants perfectly! This belongs on Saturday night live. Keep up the good work. You're why Trump won!!!
This is the most headless conversation the election I’ve heard.
Unfortunately, as someone who voted for Harris and has spent time in east coast places of liberal power, it appears that the hubris reaches up to the NYT editorial board.
The comment about "Women were finally supposed to see their self intrest." And the casual notion that defunding law enforcement just didn't play out as well as it should, both show that they have yet to learn anything and this tirade of "Introspection" is very premature.
Edit: The more I continue to listen everything they say is wrong, it's amazing not one thing!
Democrats NEED to focus more on celebrity endorsements!!
@@andrewpirr mfw I voted in a celebrity game show host but chastise the other sides use of celebrity endorsements
But only the right celebrities, don't want any of those celebrities that icky "dudes" listen to!
Lol!
Exactly. There were no where near enough celebrity endorsements.
When Kamala got the endorsement of a professional ass jiggler, that changed the game for me.
Liberal anger = Righteous Anger
Conservative anger = Toxic anger
Yah ok
Please explain the "anger" of Trump voters who complain about inflation but can also afford to buy endless amounts of Trump merchandise. You didn't make the effort or take the time to get educated in school so now your life sucks and you want someone to come save you from your own stupidity, that's Trump's base.
They are the sanctimonious finger waggers of our day. They are the church ladies of our day. Politics is their religion.
I thought this video was going to be more about Libs and Proggies admitting for once how damaging is their hubris and arrogance to their politics. Instead the video is a vivid demonstration of what hubris and arrogance is.😂
I could not stop laughing during this podcast.
If only money were grown in university gardens noone would ever go hungry seems to be the sentiment of two people who clearly have never done a hard working job and are scoffing at the idea of a factory being built!!
You sound like very nice people but you really have no idea what 'real' people think. I worked in universities for years and you talk the way they talk, but which makes no sense to anyone not in higher education and studying that stuff. It's 'academic' and divorced from the reality of most people's everyday lives, which aren't concerned with gender issues but paying the mortgage.
lol these two women are so out of touch with reality, it's amusing listening to them.
Imagine thinking this in 2024
These two are exactly what you call “Educated fools”. Speaking tons of words but communicating no sense at all. Zero understanding of the basic economics concept. They are the typical product of the failing higher education in the US. Absolutely clueless about why they lost.
@@xiangli4383 op starts with complaining about “basic economic concepts” then jumps straight into the culture wars Lmao
Agree completely
@@bentrinker1937 Exactly...they are the hand wringers on the Rear Echelon....they are out of touch with a guy who works everyday for peanuts
@@joseflemire4284 I just watched an interview with some of the trump supporters not republican trump supporters who are out here saying an extra 500 dollars a month would not help them feed their kids … bro … and I’m considered out of touch for voting dem?? BROOOO!!!!!!
at what point exactly did they talk about economics?
NYT needs to send what reporters they have left outside of NYC and live a year as a normal American. I'm sick of the rich coastal dong sucking that every NYT article exudes.
Do you guys even hear yourselves?
Lol. It’s unreal how out of touch these folks are. Amazing that the pain in my bank account outweighs the never ending discussion of identity politics.
I would love to know much wealth the panellists have.
I wouldn't.
You love diversity until it is diversity of opinion, of which there was none in this podcast.
Not one word about what the Democrats could have done better.
You apparently weren't listening or comprehending. And the biggest issue not taken up here is not what the Dems did wrong but what the electorate did to betray our country with gross ignorance, irrational thinking and the childish desire for something "different" as the standard complaint whenever the world isn't conforming to your unreasonable expectations--such as inflation, that raised prices and obviously impacted average Americans but was a global problem in which the US did better than other countries and it was NOT Biden's fault. In fact, the economy overall is strong, inflation has come down to pretty standard rates and wages are increasing, new jobs are being added at record rates, unemployment is historically low, etc.
Absolutely tone deaf
When the Republican opponent is a convicted felon, admits to groping women and staged a televised attempted coup, what do you think Dems could have done "better?"
America loathes itself.
except they literally said they needed better messaging and separation from biden and to directly address "real" issues of the working class. where are these commenters coming from lol. this isn't even a problem of reading comprehension, but just basic listening ability at this point lol.
Not one word about what the Democrats could have done better in the comments section either. Maybe the podcast is clueless but the commenters are equally clueless.
Oh.. this is terrible, how could this even happen. Harris loses the electoral collage, the popular vote, the senate, the house and DT gets to pick judges for another 4 years. How could this happen!?
These are exactly the types of people no one should ever listen to again if Dems want to listen to
Y’all are so so so far away from the truth and continuing to not listen. Which is why your candidate lost.
What is the truth?
@@StephensofceeaTrump is a brilliant businessman who will reduce prices.
@@JosedeJezeus he’s never ran a large business he’s not a businessman
@@bentrinker1937 I agree, I was just being sarcastic… but it’s what his voters actually believe. It’s so SAD that America has fallen for his CON JOB
@@Stephensofceea the core Party priorities are repulsive to most people. They push most people away, then asked us what we thought
As a 54-year-old with a lifetime observing politics, I've seen the 'last gasp' narrative about certain political groups repeated. Yet, here we are, still debating. It seems the 'death' of certain ideologies is greatly exaggerated. Can we truly move forward if we constantly dismiss our opponents as outdated?
Jesus these people are out of touch
I seem to remember a lot of podcasts circa 2016 that had the same exact title as this video. It's almost like the Democratic Party learned nothing after that election.
This was obvious when they lost the Presidency in 2016. But they keep telling themselves, even now the day after another loss, the stories that make them feel better instead of realizing that the issues that are important to them are not necessarily the issues that are important to the voters who matter.
My God, you people live on the friggin' moon.
I’m sorry. These two are the reason their party has failed. Bring in new ideas, fresh faces and better ideas. Don’t double down on this toxic BS.
What is happening I'm a Democrat across the board and what your saying is completely out of touch and you're in denial
The NYTimes is a waste of time.
You just don’t get it
So 'high brow" , these people and their comments are so far removed from reality that they might as well be on a different continent. These hosts need to reflect on their hubris, they're so condescending to people who didn't vote Kamala. For me it was all about economy. When Kamala was asked if Americans are now better or worse than four years ago, she ditched the question. If she just plain said that we are worse then four years ago, she would have had my vote. CNN and NYT kept saying that economy is great, and they were bringing up all the fancy numbers and metrics to prove it. But what I cared is that my grocery bill is way higher than it was four years ago despite cutting off some of the foods that I used to buy. That despite making more than 100k a year , I still can't afford to buy a decent home for my family. Democratic party and dem leaning media are so far removed from what people are actually care about that it was no surprise to me that they lost. On top of that they are so condescending, and talk to opposite side like we are retarded. "You don't know sh!!t. You're are wrong, economy is great, look at this fancy graph that we have , it shows economy is great, so you're wrong. Your grocery bill? that's not important, look at our fancy graph again. " They were claiming that economy is good because consumer spending is up... Of course it is up, everything costs more. It's not me buying more stuff, it's me paying more for the same amount of stuff as before. Seriously, Dems, you need to stop thinking that people on the other side are stupid.
"CNN and NYT kept saying that economy is great, and they were bringing up all the fancy numbers and metrics to prove it."
It is, especially compared to Europe.
"But what I cared is that my grocery bill is way higher than it was four years ago despite cutting off some of the foods that I used to buy. That despite making more than 100k a year"
How are you having problems buying groceries if you earn over 100K?
"I still can't afford to buy a decent home for my family."
That's more due to where you live.
"I reject this whole economic anxiety argument..." My God this women is absolutely clueless.
I just LOVE how the black sounding woman blithely disregards OUR economic concerns as *presented all wrong* and that *paper over racial issues*. Madam we no longer care how you feel. To the other one.. *you* can't "empathize" other people's way out of suffering your elitist class CAUSE.
When you even start talking the problem immediately becomes insoluble. Because your sort of people must NEVER be allowed to lead again. Not even on an interpersonal private level.
"Nothing will fundamentally change." -Joe Biden
Yall reside in an elitist bubble and possess a misguided sense of self-importance.
My 2 cents as a centrist libertarian non American “minority” woman. I don’t like Trump, I think he’s a textbook narcissist and he says stupid shit all the time, but if I was American and I had to vote I would’ve voted for him in the election.
Simply because the Dems have gone so far to the left when it comes to identity politics and their immigration policy is absolute rubbish. I’m all for LGBTQ rights and adults should be able to do whatever they want to do, but I disagree with allowing minors to alter their hormones/bodies with permanent repercussions when they’re not even old enough to vote or get a tattoo. We all know how susceptible teenagers are. Had I grown up in this era as a teenager I probably would’ve thought I was a trans too since I was a tomboy and often wished I was a man instead during my puberty. Allowing trans athletes in women’s sports are also deeply problematic and imo, very much anti women.
Illegal immigration was out of control (and yes republican blocked their latest bill to address this for their self interest) but they’d let it get so bad for so many years.
Inflation was so high and cost of living pressures definitely would’ve been one of the main influence too, although I do understand that post-COVID most countries went thru the same thing and it’s naive to think that had Trump been in power he would’ve done much better. However, the dems proposed economic policies left a lot to be desired.
They were screaming about abortion rights but they’ve been in power for 4 years and they hadn’t managed to change anything that Trump did. They are only using it as a tool to get people to vote against Trump, not because they genuinely believe they can do shit about it.
This! And that's why the abortion didn't win it for them. After decades people finally saw through the BS. Kamala would have done absolutely nothing on abortion.
"Democrats Had a Theory of the Election." Correction, it seems to me that they had a "Concept of the Election". Polls do not win elections, people do, and as one famous politician said years ago "It's the economy stupid". Do with that comment what you will.
literally laughed out loud when she said the working class of today are really women of color. OH WOW WOULD HAVE GUESSED
Why do all these podcasters have the pathological need to talk about their feelings?
TBF, you're listening to a podcast that's literally called "The Opinions". So in this case, that's on you 🙃
This really gave some great insights into the 2016 election
Lol
As a Republican who voted his first Democrat presidential candidate ever, I can't even listen to this podcast after 10 minutes. Can't stand anything Trump stands for, but the reason Harris lost is that Dems are constantly telling America how bad we are. For example, listen to Obama chastise black men & then more black men vote Republican than ever before. MAGA may be wrong about almost everything, but at least MAGA thinks Americans are and can be great. The Democrat message is that Americans are not great even though we have led the most prosperous and peaceful world history since WWII. Of course there are a lot of bad things that happen in the US, but there are worse things that happen in most other places in the world. We always need to try and be better, but Democrats only focus on labeling who is bad and how bad they are. Maybe Democrats should start to talk about who is good. Btw, Bad Bunny & Beyonce don't add much to the conversation other than to gloss over what's important
Americans are ignorant AND arrogant, that’s why Trump won.
Kamala Harris spent her entire campaign talking about hope and the promise of America, your "hot take" is fact free opinion.
Donald Trump called America a "Garbage Can."
I've never seen a candidate hurl so many insults at so many people. I can't cite a single "policy" Trump has except he *hates* whatever he thinks the audience he's speaking to is unhappy with.
When you say "Dems are constantly telling America how bad we are," you're not adequately expressing what you mean or what I saw. I have voted Republican since 1980 but Never-Trump since 2016.
@@DS_P8 I voted for her, and no she didn't, most everything that I saw was he talking about Trump, Trump trump trump.
@@joshuamahaffey7163 listen to her nomination speech or at the ellipse. You couldn't be more wrong.
You were so close until you got to the 9 minute mark. It’s NOT about better messaging. It literally is, majority of Americans don’t believe in defunding police. Majority of Americans don’t believe/accept identity politics. The answer is NOT “Democrats need to sell these topics better.” The answer IS “Yeah, we’re not going to align ourselves with them anymore.”
@ 9:06 "They actually do want that story" ... 🤣😂
No “journalist” should be in such a bad bubble that they can be as wrong as you two are.
their analysis, especially the 2nd lady's, is exactly correct.
You still see the world from your perspective, and thats (imo) what went wrong - you are not listening to the "the forgotten".
I listened to this hoping I would hear a clear explanation of what happened, but I was extremely disappointed. The NYT learned nothing from this defeat and continues to talk condescendingly about Trump and his supporters. The NYT made be part of the reason Harris lost.
Omg… these two are clueless. They don’t live in our version of reality. It’s dirty and gritty. Living paycheck to paycheck. Worried about the health, wealth, and mental health of our kids and families. Reality is the my family was better off financially when Trump was in office. Not so much under Biden.
And that doesn’t mean I voted for hate as if I’m some demon. I voted for the best interest of my family.
Imagine a world where republicans ran an ad insinuating that liberal men should not be honest with their wife in the voting booth. Idiotic that they thought Liz Cheney and this commercial were the ticket to victory.
Oh not only the "Lie to your husband's about your vote" platform, but the Harris campaign also ran an ad telling them that if they don't vote for her they won't get laid (seriously). They're just out to alienate everyone lol
They cackled about America being the richest country in the world (6:50) but on a per person basis that is just objectively false. There are numerous countries where people have a higher standard of living than America, and they have less immigrants.
I think this is the worst of the post-analysis videos I've seen so far
Classic. "They lost because my faction isn't in charge"
Just another set of Democrats in their echo chambers and not listening again.
The guest is pretty good, but reparations, again? Seriously stil? There are no longer any slave owners or slaves, so her analogy about the end of slavery is woefully out of date. Some times smart people get hung-up emotionally on some silly point completely out of kilter with society.
“Do better at that messaging” are you fkn kidding me? Your message is completely tone deaf and irrelevant to most of us. You chose social justice issues when we are dealing with economic issues. You guys are so stuck on identity politics that you’re gonna keep losing. Clueless post-mortems like this will only lead to continued failure
Biden's hubris is the reason we now have a second Trump term.
Don't forget Hillary Clinton.
Biden’s hubris? I’d say it’s more the hubris of Pelosi and Dem leadership as a whole.
💯
You completely missed the mark. Talk to normal people and stop reading blogs. Nobody cares if someone is a woman, nobody cares about race. The more you say that's why, the more right everyone goes. People are sick of the identity crap, and we are running from it in droves.
Scary thing is the guest is a professor ready to indoctrinate her students.
15:10 this lady just went from talking about rediscovering class politics and unironically attemping to equate it with identity politics. The issue with identity politics is not it in it of itself but the use of identity politics to disregard the preceived real concerns of the working class constituants that include all sorts of identities.
So these are the "educated women" the news keep talking about lol
You people never learn.
In a far away India, there is lot of optimism that family as a concept will survive and gender as a binary will survive...thanks to conservative win.
Whatever be the inadequacies of Trump as a person he represented the last hope for these two constructs in the world to survive.
Tressie is so smart 😊
Issues for the former dems who defected to the right in my area (swing state) were border and unchecked illegal immigration, crime, economy and runaway prices on housing and staple items, trans/DEI forced culture, homelessness, and Israel. Reproductive rights were already being addressed at my state level. Not sure how the DNC missed all of this.
Exactly. Several of those states had abortion ballot measures, allowing voters to basically split the ticket and vote for abortion and for Trump. It was incredibly daft by the Dems. The Dems really going back quite far have a hard time meeting voters where they're at; I mean the fatal flaw of the Biden admin was to basically ignore like 6 major issues that are bugging people and just focus on what the admin wanted and figure the rest will sort itself out especially if you can just say "well unemployment numbers are low and wages are going up" is condescending when 100 million people are screaming about what it's like on the ground out there. Just pretending there was nothing the WH could have done 2+ years ago at the border and then looking for legislative coverage from its own left flank which put the power into the GOP and Trump's hands was beyond stupid and not actually understanding the public -- I come from a Hispanic background and I have like zero in common with the migrants. And yeah, we can go down the list.
Read Bernie's letter to the Dems.
I think you're 100% right at 5:38 on the lack of a vision of progress. Tinkering around the edges is not enough when people see there are fundamental issues that Democrats don't want to talk about.
@@matthewm2139 they’re definitely right about that. There was a lack of vision. I mean the Democrats message fundamentally is. Things are doing OK. Give our policies time to work. They just didn’t have like a good message a good vision to sell people.
I am still convinced maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but I am convinced inflation will no longer be a big deal within a month of the Trump presidency. This was literally all vibes. He can do nothing and people will say that inflation is down. People will say everything’s fine. All we can do is hope that Trump won’t mess everything up, but we’ll see.
So what you’re saying is: you have not learned a thing from this election.
We need to keep Hollywood out of our primary process.
"Am I out of touch? No, it's the voters who are wrong."
Democratic party: It looks like our voters are unhappy with Joe Biden. Let's not have a real primary...
Who has a stake in this system? You two do. You ARE the system.