It’s so stupid that the bane blade, the center piece of almost every guard collection has almost zero interactions with our faction rule or detachment rules. It’s one of the only super heavy’s that gets treated this way as everyone else’s can use detachments, faction rules and some even have detachments based around them. By far one of the dumbest changes GW has done.
They already suffered from being unable to move on the tables and are impossible to place in reserves. This was the last straw unless the new Guard Detachment gives them the 'Squadron' Keyword.
Sooo, post dataslate, as we drop Scoutmeras w/catachans, ogryns, aquilons, and man on a horse, fully expecting to see more lists with triple Russ battlecannons for they're inbuilt rerolls, triple TC's, Scions being back on the menu, again for those rerolls, and Ursala back with mortars for FoF, and scout sentinels for rerolls on the TC's and scout moves, so even without take aim almost the whole army will at least get reroll 1s, and full rerolls in some units cases. Hopefully come the codex we'll see maybe Commissar's able to lead and order abhumans, and maybe that Dorn commander will be able to order our baneblades. And as Guard players we'll just adapt and overcome, as we always have.
I had just gotten done putting together and painting my first army in 40k. The changes made my new 1000 point army over 1000 points. Just a couple modifications and I'm still ready to try it out.
I completely agree with you and I tried posting these thoughts with Mordian glory’s crowd and wow they have changed over the last few years into something closer to the meta cults of other channels. It may just be my age, but I remember when Warhammer was just socializing and having a good time. Lore chats, hobby tips, giving someone rerolls because the dice gods hated them. Hell letting things happen that wouldn’t be possible in the rules like a commissar jumping on a piranha to win the match or a land raider shoving a hulked battle wagon off a bridge.
Mordian’s crowd became that way ever since he decided to turn Warhammer into his livelihood, so of course he now needs to cater to the competitive meta whales to put food on the table. It’s unfortunate because he was a proper beer and pretzels player before he went full time on Warhammer. Now all his Guard content always has to have a sweaty competitive angle to it.
Mordin has said guard are still good and told people the best thing about guard is the amount of options they have so if one thing is nerfed there will always be an alternative
I literally ran three catachan squads in chimeras, scouting with three scout sentinel squads of three, and Gaunt's Ghosts in a 1000 point list recently. that list is now well over 1000 now.
Dropping from 6 full scion squads to 5 to make points hurts. Might just run 3, 5 man command scions for secondary's, sustained 1, an order, extra weapons for only 10 more points over basic scions.
My Cadian mechanised army took a bit of a hit from the data slate, but at least it means there's less to paint to hit 2000pts! A good, sensible view on the changes 👍
I disagree with your take Steel. Especially when you are coming off with a more casual approach. Sending a faction from S to B is a massive blow, especislly when it's because they need to "make room for marines" because they're a fan favourite after SM 2. I'm gonna still play Guard because i've always loved it and i'm never gonna change faction but it's really sad. I feel like Guard has been done dirty way too many times by GW and our time in the sun was waay too short. PD: keep up the good work, love your channel!
We're the Guard, sir. We hold the line, whatever the circumstance. Thank you for keeping the salt out of this discussion. It's all to easy to cry wolf and not realize Guard is still in a solid position.
I didn't realize a majority of the army didn't have Regiment or Squadron. Maybe I should go count how many do and don't, to be fair. I don't really know what the ratio is.
Could this be a nerf based on the new codex? Without knowing the detachment rules these nerfs may be warranted. Before everyone gets too mad wait till it's out, won't be long! (Wishful justification on my part here)
My 1k list went up by 15 points and my 2k list went up 55 points. Annoying, but easy enough to fix. The lists are hypothetical, anyway, as I havent actually ran them in a game yet. So they're gonna change over time, regardless.
I saw this coming since Guard was winning tournaments. We're now being nerfed based on top players that get the most out of orders and special units which really wasn't what happened before. I'm ok with this, I was also ok with the artillery nerf since it freed up room for other stuff. I dislike the loss of orders for abhumans and such but what bothers me most is the feeling of being pushed into a tank meta. I like my army mixed but the Leman Russ variants are looking cheap now and Born Soldiers with buffed Tank Commanders further cement that. I'm not overly fond of that play style even though I would very much like a substitute for Lord Solars abilities. Edit: I love the Guard, not because it is easy, but because it is hard. Well, the command phase is the hard part..
We do have the taurox as a plastic alternative to the chimera. I know its not as good but its an option. Also the double nerf on lord solar means he cant order himself or any other solo officers now.
Love the honesty and the optimism CSS. I don’t mind the changes and it doesn’t mean much to me if Guard drop in the competitive meta. Big changes like this allow us to consider using different models and writing new lists which I like doing. And I’m very excited for the codex, grotmas detachment and new Krieg models!!
I can relate. I bought manticores the week before they got nerfed twice, and now I just ordered Bullgryns and now they cant get orders. Having a complete collection at the ready is the only real way to "get in while the getting is good" I think, because assembling and painting takes a while!!
@@Try_Again_Bragg I can see that actually but we still have very little to no insight on the rules or how things are going to change. The Increase in infantry units could mean that our orders and special abilities got a lot better and how you can use them. regardless Im still excited for the codex
The guard wasnt ruined the game over all was by these changes me and the other guard players had our lists hit hard mech guard is alot harder for me, and my friend who runs a scion army had it baaaad.
They always have been pretty decent, but now that everything else is worse now is the time for these units to shine. I would say Krieg with marshall are better due to the 5+ FNP, it's a lot better than fall back and shoot or sustained hits. Krieger squads have better abilities aswell, but both options are valid though!
Completely agreed. Thats how ive been playing and collecting since I started in tenth, and my army has generally just gotten stronger and stronger with each dataslate.
@@ZaylidinOfficial I’ve been playing since 3rd edition, stopped at 7th, came back at 10th, dusted off the old models, some had some base changes, but it’s the same army, and it works surprisingly well
I also run pure scions, we essentially lost a 10 man unit for the same points. After some mathing I'm gonna drop my second 15 man deepstrike unit and move all my command scions into my mechanized scions. 2 taurox primes, 2 command squads (command rods), 2 five man scions, Ursula bomb only went up 40 points but added command squads to gain extra orders, extra weapons and sustained hits.
Lord solar cps unlock massive amount of mortal wounds through grenade and tank shock is really valuable to guard I think you’ll still see him everywhere (and his proxies 😂)
Dose any one else think the simplest fix would be to add the squadron key word to the lords of war? Then maybe add the auxillia key word to Ogryn and Ratlings. Then give the command Auxillia rule to Commisars and Lord Solar
It's one thing to get nerfs but to see armies like death guard and necrons get 0 nerfs. In fact they get buffs is just not right. I don't care what they do to us as long as the other armies are treated the same
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people saying "this doesn't matter, the Codex will change everything," and I think that's copium. Some of it might get changed, but I suspect a lot of the rules and points changes that we've had here will override whatever's in the Codex; God knows it wouldn't be the first time a Codex was outdated before it even hit shelves.
Some of us (speaking for myself) suck at the game. So I have to take the best units so I can loose to Nids 50-40 not 70-10. Yes my list went up 200 ish points 🙃
It’s so stupid that the bane blade, the center piece of almost every guard collection has almost zero interactions with our faction rule or detachment rules. It’s one of the only super heavy’s that gets treated this way as everyone else’s can use detachments, faction rules and some even have detachments based around them. By far one of the dumbest changes GW has done.
I know quite a few Guard players myself included that have never owned a Baneblade and we have all been playing since 3rd edition.
They already suffered from being unable to move on the tables and are impossible to place in reserves. This was the last straw unless the new Guard Detachment gives them the 'Squadron' Keyword.
@RFischer at a guess they will possibly get squadron in the new codex.
@@RFischerWith reservers it helps to use rapid Ingress. 😊
@@OlaniHinn Oh yeah that would work.
Sooo, post dataslate, as we drop Scoutmeras w/catachans, ogryns, aquilons, and man on a horse, fully expecting to see more lists with triple Russ battlecannons for they're inbuilt rerolls, triple TC's, Scions being back on the menu, again for those rerolls, and Ursala back with mortars for FoF, and scout sentinels for rerolls on the TC's and scout moves, so even without take aim almost the whole army will at least get reroll 1s, and full rerolls in some units cases. Hopefully come the codex we'll see maybe Commissar's able to lead and order abhumans, and maybe that Dorn commander will be able to order our baneblades. And as Guard players we'll just adapt and overcome, as we always have.
Regardless of nerfs, CADIA STILL STANDS.
Cadia has stood for ten-thousand years and it will stand ten-thousand more! The Emperor is with us! Today and forever!
Cadia stands!!!!
GW friendship with Cadia over, Krieg new besteest friends
I had just gotten done putting together and painting my first army in 40k. The changes made my new 1000 point army over 1000 points. Just a couple modifications and I'm still ready to try it out.
I completely agree with you and I tried posting these thoughts with Mordian glory’s crowd and wow they have changed over the last few years into something closer to the meta cults of other channels.
It may just be my age, but I remember when Warhammer was just socializing and having a good time. Lore chats, hobby tips, giving someone rerolls because the dice gods hated them. Hell letting things happen that wouldn’t be possible in the rules like a commissar jumping on a piranha to win the match or a land raider shoving a hulked battle wagon off a bridge.
Mordian’s crowd became that way ever since he decided to turn Warhammer into his livelihood, so of course he now needs to cater to the competitive meta whales to put food on the table.
It’s unfortunate because he was a proper beer and pretzels player before he went full time on Warhammer. Now all his Guard content always has to have a sweaty competitive angle to it.
@ it’s sad when we lose good people to the Meta Cult
Mordin has said guard are still good and told people the best thing about guard is the amount of options they have so if one thing is nerfed there will always be an alternative
I am already losing all my games before the nerf. So these changes does not affect me at all.
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.
While I don't think the sky is falling it still feels bad having mech guard, my favorite play style, get hit so hard.
Me too buddy me to
Hopefully that new Detachment really opens Mech Guard back up in an amazing way
I just want Commissars to be able to give orders to Abhumans. It would fit pretty well.
Make Commissars great again!
I literally ran three catachan squads in chimeras, scouting with three scout sentinel squads of three, and Gaunt's Ghosts in a 1000 point list recently. that list is now well over 1000 now.
I agree with you 100% and it's refreshing to hear a non-competitive point of view for once.
Instant channel member sign up. Great content brother, happy to support you more!!
Thank you so much!!!
Thanks for your perspective, love your positivity!
They even nerfed your video background!
😂
@@Emann-yc7cv 🤣🤣 now that is funny
Dropping from 6 full scion squads to 5 to make points hurts. Might just run 3, 5 man command scions for secondary's, sustained 1, an order, extra weapons for only 10 more points over basic scions.
My Cadian mechanised army took a bit of a hit from the data slate, but at least it means there's less to paint to hit 2000pts! A good, sensible view on the changes 👍
I mostly agree.
I think Catachans went up 5 points too much though, and that with the nerfs Aquilons should have been 100
I disagree with your take Steel. Especially when you are coming off with a more casual approach. Sending a faction from S to B is a massive blow, especislly when it's because they need to "make room for marines" because they're a fan favourite after SM 2. I'm gonna still play Guard because i've always loved it and i'm never gonna change faction but it's really sad. I feel like Guard has been done dirty way too many times by GW and our time in the sun was waay too short. PD: keep up the good work, love your channel!
We're the Guard, sir. We hold the line, whatever the circumstance.
Thank you for keeping the salt out of this discussion. It's all to easy to cry wolf and not realize Guard is still in a solid position.
losing orders to most of the army from Lard Slar is the biggest hit to the guard this balance
it is what it is , the codex will come out in january so all we can do is cross our fingers
I didn't realize a majority of the army didn't have Regiment or Squadron. Maybe I should go count how many do and don't, to be fair. I don't really know what the ratio is.
@pietroaccaria2093 if all they do is make commissars able to lead abhumans, I’ll still be happy.
@@KaraKrash621 yea it will be nice also lore accurate
Could this be a nerf based on the new codex? Without knowing the detachment rules these nerfs may be warranted. Before everyone gets too mad wait till it's out, won't be long! (Wishful justification on my part here)
My 1k list went up by 15 points and my 2k list went up 55 points. Annoying, but easy enough to fix. The lists are hypothetical, anyway, as I havent actually ran them in a game yet. So they're gonna change over time, regardless.
Mine went up by 145 XD big sad
My 1500 went up by 50, a whole heavy weapons team will have to go! :-(
I saw this coming since Guard was winning tournaments. We're now being nerfed based on top players that get the most out of orders and special units which really wasn't what happened before.
I'm ok with this, I was also ok with the artillery nerf since it freed up room for other stuff.
I dislike the loss of orders for abhumans and such but what bothers me most is the feeling of being pushed into a tank meta. I like my army mixed but the Leman Russ variants are looking cheap now and Born Soldiers with buffed Tank Commanders further cement that.
I'm not overly fond of that play style even though I would very much like a substitute for Lord Solars abilities.
Edit: I love the Guard, not because it is easy, but because it is hard. Well, the command phase is the hard part..
We do have the taurox as a plastic alternative to the chimera. I know its not as good but its an option. Also the double nerf on lord solar means he cant order himself or any other solo officers now.
I think a lot of people don't even own any Taurox. But, you are right!
Also, good spot on the Lord Solar nerf!
Love the honesty and the optimism CSS. I don’t mind the changes and it doesn’t mean much to me if Guard drop in the competitive meta. Big changes like this allow us to consider using different models and writing new lists which I like doing. And I’m very excited for the codex, grotmas detachment and new Krieg models!!
when codexes comes in boxes, they wont be "playable" for about 3 months
Fair.
I bet we don't get good detachment for super heavies. There should be tank officer In baneblade but they want to sell rogal dorns
I feel like I’m always too let to “get in while the gettin’s good” with this game😅. I’m still painting my second aquillons.
I can relate. I bought manticores the week before they got nerfed twice, and now I just ordered Bullgryns and now they cant get orders.
Having a complete collection at the ready is the only real way to "get in while the getting is good" I think, because assembling and painting takes a while!!
I want to also point out that the codex with ITS Points are going to come out in less then 2 months and we will have a totally different discussion.
But this sets a bad precedence.
@greynite At a guess this is an insight on the points in the codex
@@Try_Again_Bragg I can see that actually but we still have very little to no insight on the rules or how things are going to change. The Increase in infantry units could mean that our orders and special abilities got a lot better and how you can use them. regardless Im still excited for the codex
The guard wasnt ruined the game over all was by these changes me and the other guard players had our lists hit hard mech guard is alot harder for me, and my friend who runs a scion army had it baaaad.
Are 20 Cadians wirc Commandsquad and castellan or 20 Krieg with Marshall now a good option?
They always have been pretty decent, but now that everything else is worse now is the time for these units to shine.
I would say Krieg with marshall are better due to the 5+ FNP, it's a lot better than fall back and shoot or sustained hits.
Krieger squads have better abilities aswell, but both options are valid though!
Been waiting for this one.
My 2k list went up 180 points, even though it’s been around 2k points since 8th edition
Aquillons. It's like sone cheap to produce models were released in an expensive box set?
Just collect Infantry and LRMBTs. You'll be set for a good 10 more editions of 40k
Completely agreed. Thats how ive been playing and collecting since I started in tenth, and my army has generally just gotten stronger and stronger with each dataslate.
@@ZaylidinOfficial I’ve been playing since 3rd edition, stopped at 7th, came back at 10th, dusted off the old models, some had some base changes, but it’s the same army, and it works surprisingly well
My NOVA open narrative mech guard list for 2024 went up 125pts
My poor mechanized vostroyans are hurting, but I feel a tiny bit better.
The problem is im trying to run PURE Scions and wow did i get absolutely destroyed. I wish yhey had their own index and coukd be allied in to Guard.
We'll see if maybe tomorrow is their detachment. If they fixed the cost of Valkaries, it would be more viable too.
I also run pure scions, we essentially lost a 10 man unit for the same points. After some mathing I'm gonna drop my second 15 man deepstrike unit and move all my command scions into my mechanized scions.
2 taurox primes, 2 command squads (command rods), 2 five man scions, Ursula bomb only went up 40 points but added command squads to gain extra orders, extra weapons and sustained hits.
CADIA STILL BLOODY STANDS!!! but yo alot of these Nerfs are Pretty damn rough!!, but we will Pivot and we will Adapt!!
Hey Boss! I really like your content!!! Great Job! Did you ever thought about getting a mic? It would make your voice Quality so much better 😊
Lord solar cps unlock massive amount of mortal wounds through grenade and tank shock is really valuable to guard I think you’ll still see him everywhere (and his proxies 😂)
I think we are going to see sooooo many more tank commander’s
Dose any one else think the simplest fix would be to add the squadron key word to the lords of war? Then maybe add the auxillia key word to Ogryn and Ratlings. Then give the command Auxillia rule to Commisars and Lord Solar
That would buff the guard into being broken.
It's one thing to get nerfs but to see armies like death guard and necrons get 0 nerfs. In fact they get buffs is just not right. I don't care what they do to us as long as the other armies are treated the same
played a game today got f in the a against the new DG detachment
Hopefully they prepped the a with a nice wet tentacle 🤣
What impact do you think this has on your three 1K starter lists?
Limited. The fast attack one will go up for sure. The others if you group thr Cadians together in 20 model units, they stay the same.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people saying "this doesn't matter, the Codex will change everything," and I think that's copium. Some of it might get changed, but I suspect a lot of the rules and points changes that we've had here will override whatever's in the Codex; God knows it wouldn't be the first time a Codex was outdated before it even hit shelves.
My goal for 2025 is to build, paint, and play a 500 point game.
Bro, by then, gw will make it 1000
Some of us (speaking for myself) suck at the game. So I have to take the best units so I can loose to Nids 50-40 not 70-10. Yes my list went up 200 ish points 🙃
MAKE THE VANQUISHER GOD TIER AGAIN