Prayed every day for 14 years for God to keep my son alive for one more day. Once, near the end of his life, I felt a strong impression, "if he passes away, I will be there for him". Found him deceased in his apartment last year at this time. Felt a very strong Presence, assuring me, he is finally at rest.
Prayer has been my lifeline for nearly 75 years. When I struggle to begin, opening the scriptures allows the flow of praise, petitions, and thanksgiving to God occur. I walk and pray daily. Being outside beneath the sky, gazing at clouds, listening to birds, seeing the light play through leaves causes me to wonder at God's creativity and brilliance, inspiring further conversation with the Almighty. Thank you for this lovely discusdion and q& a time. I have myself witnessed remarkable " coincidences" and miraculous answers to prayer. Then again, some answers dont arrive, but that causes me to trust in His goodness even when the answer is not granted or long delayed. Prayer is a mystery for sure.
Thank you Tom and Justin. I'm going through some practical, physical and emotional challenges at the moment and your words of wisdom are truly appreciated and an inspiration. Thank you🙏🙏
I should add to my previous comment prayers of praise and thanks and in the Spirit when we are lost for words. Many years ago friend talked about Prayer Fuel and there is plenty of fuel for our prayers at the moment.
I journal prayers, so I remember I prayed them when they are answered. It aids in counting my blessings. I recommend writing down prayers and your spiritual journey, especially if like me, you have a faulty memory.
Prayer for me seems to cover various levels - prayer for non-believing friends and family where I may be the only person praying for them. Praying prayer requests from the Church where there will be a number of people praying - and in addition actually praying with someone one-to-one (which I find the most difficult). Then praying for events taking place as seen on our TV News each day where there may be very large numbers of people in prayer such as the situation in Israel and Gaza.
NT, when you pray what are you actually praying to. Is it a person. What sort of entity do you imagine is on the other end of your prayer. Is it visible? How can it hear you, does it have ears? Is it a one way or two way relationship?
You will know once you know Jesus in/by your spirit. There's no way we can explain this with words because I used to pray to idols before I believed in Christ. I had a similar struggle. I was taught to imagine an avatar of God (Krishna or Ram) while praying. I became a Christ-follower after an encounter with Lord Jesus. I couldn't figure out what to pray, how to pray, to whom to pray, or what to imagine as I prayed. The Lord's prayer (some people say it's Christ's teaching on how to pray) gave me a model prayer. I prayed that prayer to God, our Father. Eventually, I learned to pray in my words. I addressed my prayers to God in Jesus' name. Later, as my prayer life improved, I started getting dreams and visions. I understood that sometimes God can use these to help us know his will. At the time, I didn't imagine any person while praying because in the OT people didn't see any figure when they saw God face-to-face. And, honestly, I don't know how Jesus looked because my frds told me that the Catholic White Jesus with a long beard is not an ideal way to imagine Jesus. Then, one day, I understood the imaginary figure is not important. I don't need to picturize God. Instead, I started letting God's Spirit influence my mind. Many times as I pray, the Holy Spirit reminds me of Biblical verses or passages that help me know God deeper. Then, I started praying Paul's prayers (Ephesians and Colossians) and Psalms. As I prayed with God's words (words people said in relationship with God) my understanding grew more. These days I think my life, thoughts, breath, movements everything is a prayer. Prayer is speaking to God. When I get frustrated, I express my emotions to God. When I am happy, I thank and sing to God. When I feel lonely, God reminds me of his presence with me. He will never leave us nor forsake us. God is close to the broken hearted and he knows how to calm our hearts even when things seem impossible. Above all, remember we are waiting for Jesus to return and give us the final blessing of immortality. He has promised us life in immortal yet physical resurrection bodies in the coming age. Our present sufferings are not worth comparing with God's glory that he will reveal in us. Jesus loves you.❤
Wright has a nice life studying men's God constructs. It doesn't begin to answer the problem of suffering as agnostics like Bart Ehrman ,John Loftus ,,Richard Carrier and many more have pointed out
Suffering will happen whether there is God or not. We do all we can to prevent or eliminate it. So we build shelters, raise crops for food and find answers for our many questions and problems. But there are two kinds of suffering in the world. The God/universe-caused kind; and the suffering caused by neighbor-to-neighbor conflicts. God himself initiated the day-to-day suffering with the thorns in the field and labor pains. Both are indicative of the rest of the suffering that we must face in a world of limitations. But God's main concern was the neighbor-to-neighbor variety. Remember, it was the incessant violence that precipitated the flood. That being the objective, I've got a different train of thought than most and am willing to discuss.
The universe pain we all endure, I believe is part of sanctification process. The earthly pain gives us the opportunity to lean into God and reflect his love.
Prayer does increase your likelihood of believing that prayer works: - If you pray for many things for longer, you’re statistically more likely to find one prayer answered eventually. - If you make your prayer general and vague, you don’t get to see the effects of that prayer, and yet expect that it will happen anyway. - If you pray for something and accept a different course of events than initially expected, then you will accept anything at all as answered prayer. - Even if no one ever prayed for it, spontaneous disease remission tends to be taken as answered prayer. We don’t adequately understand the human body, let alone all the quirks of each individual. Miracle stories, no matter how uncommon, tend to spread and reach more people. - Even when prayer demonstrably fails, you distract from it by inventing answers rather than taking it into consideration. We are not to question God. All of these practices are encouraged in Christian circles as an example of a healthy prayer life. But they also encourage statistical fallacies.
I would recommend you try it for yourself. He has answered very specific prayers in my life, very quickly. Multiple times. Statistics played no role. Have faith. Try it. What have you got to lose? God bless
@@Laurensbleu on average, my prayers for changes in my desires, questions regarding life, and strength to face something are answered within 24 hours. I have been journaling prayers since 2019.
@@PraiseYahforHeisHoly I just started my walk with Jesus in April. Ive recently come to the realization that documenting my answered prayers would be super beneficial, and now I know why ppl do it. I recently went out and bought one :)
@@Laurensbleu That's so great. Welcome to the family! Having a written record of my testimony has helped me many times to overcome hard times. God is faithful.
If you believe your God is all knowing, then praying does nothing. He already knows what’s going to happen and isn’t going to change his plans because someone prayed. God gives you no choices, free will is just an illusion. If God knows everything you’re going to do from birth to death, then there is no free will. God has already determined what you’re going to do. I welcome anyone to change my mind.
@@SkyfallenVT @jacquedegatineau9037 I think it’s worth considering the alternatives to cover your bases. First, it’s important to confirm that God being all-knowing implies that God is omnipotent. This follows as long as God created the world. If God was aware of the consequences and created the world nonetheless, He is effectively omnipotent. We would also expect Him to be omniscient since He is outside of time and knows the whole timeline. So the first alternative is that God gave up some of His omnipotence/omniscience to allow for free will. In this case, there are many possible timelines which God purposely relinquishes power over. But even in this case, He has control over all the branches and their consequences. Nothing prevents Him from creating a paradise without the possibility for suffering, which He is morally obligated to do by His loving nature. But that never happened. We are left with a God who is omnipotent and omniscient, but not loving. In such a case, most Christian doctrine is rendered pointless. Our only reason to retain belief is to fill the gaps in our knowledge. This last point clarifies that God’s primary purpose is emotional validation rather than logical necessity.
@@seanpierce9386 I agree with you. Here I was only focusing on the all knowing (omniscient) part of the argument. I try to keep things simple to start with, for open discussion.
Wright speaks of prayer as if it means requesting something of God. Even Jesus hit a stone wall with that at the Garden of Gethsemane (as Wright noted also). It’s more that God wants to “solicit our partnership,” in this world-with our minds being in sync with God’s-resulting in, “not my will but yours.” So my model of prayer is also that of Moses and Abraham. They engaged with God and confronted him-sometimes even changing his mind.
Could you give me some examples of God changing his mind through your prayers? Does God literally appear in front of you in some discernible form and directly communicate his message to you as he often did with Abraham and Moses in the OT?
@@onionbelly_ This is more intuitive with me. So, "Don't tell me what to do. Just tell me how things work," is how I think. Consequently I've never had an opportunity to change God's mind. But like Moses, Abraham David, the prophets-even Jesus, I have a somewhat contentious relationship with God-because I might not like the way things work. But the issues I raise always resolve-at least to my satisfaction.
If prayer works, then god is not immutable. And if he is not immutable he is not perfect. But Christians claim that god is perfect, and immutable and that prayer works. It doesn't add up.
Well, I suppose if I pray long enough for my constipation to come to an end, I'll end up with the runs. It might take a week or two, but I'm sure God will give me the shits in the end.
Prayed every day for 14 years for God to keep my son alive for one more day. Once, near the end of his life, I felt a strong impression, "if he passes away, I will be there for him". Found him deceased in his apartment last year at this time. Felt a very strong Presence, assuring me, he is finally at rest.
Prayer has been my lifeline for nearly 75 years. When I struggle to begin, opening the scriptures allows the flow of praise, petitions, and thanksgiving to God occur. I walk and pray daily. Being outside beneath the sky, gazing at clouds, listening to birds, seeing the light play through leaves causes me to wonder at God's creativity and brilliance, inspiring further conversation with the Almighty. Thank you for this lovely discusdion and q& a time. I have myself witnessed remarkable " coincidences" and miraculous answers to prayer. Then again, some answers dont arrive, but that causes me to trust in His goodness even when the answer is not granted or long delayed. Prayer is a mystery for sure.
Thank you Tom and Justin. I'm going through some practical, physical and emotional challenges at the moment and your words of wisdom are truly appreciated and an inspiration. Thank you🙏🙏
I should add to my previous comment prayers of praise and thanks and in the Spirit when we are lost for words. Many years ago friend talked about Prayer Fuel and there is plenty of fuel for our prayers at the moment.
NT Wright's answers are essentially "God works in mysterious ways" stretched into 30,000 words.
@@onionbelly_ actually, no. His response is meaningful. Just want to say I see NT’s views differently than you.
@@jessebourneau6426 My comment had nothing to do with whether people find his response meaningful or not.
The Mona Lisa is basically a smiley face emoji but with half a pound of oil paint.
@@patrickkelly1766 It would be if you're the one replicating it.
I appreciate this. I consider myself to be a "kingdom believer". My family and friends think I have lost my mind. I will be patient with them.
I journal prayers, so I remember I prayed them when they are answered. It aids in counting my blessings. I recommend writing down prayers and your spiritual journey, especially if like me, you have a faulty memory.
Prayer for me seems to cover various levels - prayer for non-believing friends and family where I may be the only person praying for them. Praying prayer requests from the Church where there will be a number of people praying - and in addition actually praying with someone one-to-one (which I find the most difficult). Then praying for events taking place as seen on our TV News each day where there may be very large numbers of people in prayer such as the situation in Israel and Gaza.
What a beautiful conversation.
Thank you. I enjoyed that.
NT, when you pray what are you actually praying to. Is it a person. What sort of entity do you imagine is on the other end of your prayer. Is it visible? How can it hear you, does it have ears? Is it a one way or two way relationship?
You will know once you know Jesus in/by your spirit. There's no way we can explain this with words because I used to pray to idols before I believed in Christ. I had a similar struggle. I was taught to imagine an avatar of God (Krishna or Ram) while praying. I became a Christ-follower after an encounter with Lord Jesus. I couldn't figure out what to pray, how to pray, to whom to pray, or what to imagine as I prayed.
The Lord's prayer (some people say it's Christ's teaching on how to pray) gave me a model prayer. I prayed that prayer to God, our Father. Eventually, I learned to pray in my words. I addressed my prayers to God in Jesus' name. Later, as my prayer life improved, I started getting dreams and visions. I understood that sometimes God can use these to help us know his will. At the time, I didn't imagine any person while praying because in the OT people didn't see any figure when they saw God face-to-face.
And, honestly, I don't know how Jesus looked because my frds told me that the Catholic White Jesus with a long beard is not an ideal way to imagine Jesus. Then, one day, I understood the imaginary figure is not important. I don't need to picturize God. Instead, I started letting God's Spirit influence my mind. Many times as I pray, the Holy Spirit reminds me of Biblical verses or passages that help me know God deeper.
Then, I started praying Paul's prayers (Ephesians and Colossians) and Psalms. As I prayed with God's words (words people said in relationship with God) my understanding grew more. These days I think my life, thoughts, breath, movements everything is a prayer. Prayer is speaking to God. When I get frustrated, I express my emotions to God. When I am happy, I thank and sing to God. When I feel lonely, God reminds me of his presence with me. He will never leave us nor forsake us. God is close to the broken hearted and he knows how to calm our hearts even when things seem impossible.
Above all, remember we are waiting for Jesus to return and give us the final blessing of immortality. He has promised us life in immortal yet physical resurrection bodies in the coming age. Our present sufferings are not worth comparing with God's glory that he will reveal in us. Jesus loves you.❤
How can I ask him my question?
Wright has a nice life studying men's God constructs. It doesn't begin to answer the problem of suffering as agnostics like Bart Ehrman ,John Loftus ,,Richard Carrier and many more have pointed out
Suffering will happen whether there is God or not. We do all we can to prevent or eliminate it. So we build shelters, raise crops for food and find answers for our many questions and problems. But there are two kinds of suffering in the world. The God/universe-caused kind; and the suffering caused by neighbor-to-neighbor conflicts.
God himself initiated the day-to-day suffering with the thorns in the field and labor pains. Both are indicative of the rest of the suffering that we must face in a world of limitations. But God's main concern was the neighbor-to-neighbor variety. Remember, it was the incessant violence that precipitated the flood.
That being the objective, I've got a different train of thought than most and am willing to discuss.
The universe pain we all endure, I believe is part of sanctification process. The earthly pain gives us the opportunity to lean into God and reflect his love.
Prayer does increase your likelihood of believing that prayer works:
- If you pray for many things for longer, you’re statistically more likely to find one prayer answered eventually.
- If you make your prayer general and vague, you don’t get to see the effects of that prayer, and yet expect that it will happen anyway.
- If you pray for something and accept a different course of events than initially expected, then you will accept anything at all as answered prayer.
- Even if no one ever prayed for it, spontaneous disease remission tends to be taken as answered prayer. We don’t adequately understand the human body, let alone all the quirks of each individual. Miracle stories, no matter how uncommon, tend to spread and reach more people.
- Even when prayer demonstrably fails, you distract from it by inventing answers rather than taking it into consideration. We are not to question God.
All of these practices are encouraged in Christian circles as an example of a healthy prayer life. But they also encourage statistical fallacies.
I would recommend you try it for yourself. He has answered very specific prayers in my life, very quickly. Multiple times. Statistics played no role. Have faith. Try it. What have you got to lose? God bless
@@Laurensbleu on average, my prayers for changes in my desires, questions regarding life, and strength to face something are answered within 24 hours. I have been journaling prayers since 2019.
@@Laurensbleu What specific prayers did God answer for you very quickly?
@@PraiseYahforHeisHoly I just started my walk with Jesus in April. Ive recently come to the realization that documenting my answered prayers would be super beneficial, and now I know why ppl do it. I recently went out and bought one :)
@@Laurensbleu That's so great. Welcome to the family! Having a written record of my testimony has helped me many times to overcome hard times. God is faithful.
If you believe your God is all knowing, then praying does nothing. He already knows what’s going to happen and isn’t going to change his plans because someone prayed. God gives you no choices, free will is just an illusion. If God knows everything you’re going to do from birth to death, then there is no free will. God has already determined what you’re going to do. I welcome anyone to change my mind.
You're the first one to ever think of this and no one has ever advanced an alternative.
@@SkyfallenVT @jacquedegatineau9037 I think it’s worth considering the alternatives to cover your bases.
First, it’s important to confirm that God being all-knowing implies that God is omnipotent. This follows as long as God created the world. If God was aware of the consequences and created the world nonetheless, He is effectively omnipotent. We would also expect Him to be omniscient since He is outside of time and knows the whole timeline.
So the first alternative is that God gave up some of His omnipotence/omniscience to allow for free will. In this case, there are many possible timelines which God purposely relinquishes power over. But even in this case, He has control over all the branches and their consequences. Nothing prevents Him from creating a paradise without the possibility for suffering, which He is morally obligated to do by His loving nature. But that never happened.
We are left with a God who is omnipotent and omniscient, but not loving. In such a case, most Christian doctrine is rendered pointless. Our only reason to retain belief is to fill the gaps in our knowledge.
This last point clarifies that God’s primary purpose is emotional validation rather than logical necessity.
@@seanpierce9386 I agree with you. Here I was only focusing on the all knowing (omniscient) part of the argument. I try to keep things simple to start with, for open discussion.
Wright speaks of prayer as if it means requesting something of God. Even Jesus hit a stone wall with that at the Garden of Gethsemane (as Wright noted also). It’s more that God wants to “solicit our partnership,” in this world-with our minds being in sync with God’s-resulting in, “not my will but yours.” So my model of prayer is also that of Moses and Abraham. They engaged with God and confronted him-sometimes even changing his mind.
The Christian god is an egoist.
@@williamoarlock8634 I don't disagree. All of creation was for God's good pleasure. If there is a Creator, wouldn't he have the right to be?
Could you give me some examples of God changing his mind through your prayers? Does God literally appear in front of you in some discernible form and directly communicate his message to you as he often did with Abraham and Moses in the OT?
@@onionbelly_ This is more intuitive with me. So, "Don't tell me what to do. Just tell me how things work," is how I think. Consequently I've never had an opportunity to change God's mind.
But like Moses, Abraham David, the prophets-even Jesus, I have a somewhat contentious relationship with God-because I might not like the way things work. But the issues I raise always resolve-at least to my satisfaction.
@@tedclemens4093 Right. Could you give me some specific examples of that?
If prayer works, then god is not immutable. And if he is not immutable he is not perfect. But Christians claim that god is perfect, and immutable and that prayer works. It doesn't add up.
Well, I suppose if I pray long enough for my constipation to come to an end, I'll end up with the runs. It might take a week or two, but I'm sure God will give me the shits in the end.
We should NOT pray. Doing so implies that you want an all-knowing god to change his divine plan. Why insult god?