Same thing goes with my B9 A4. About 260 HP in a car of that size is a lot. Best thing is how well it sticks to the road thanks to awesome tires and Quattro working hand in hand. Audi makes by far some of the best luxury/sports cars on the planet.
Great Video! But I find it very irritation that you switch the presenter / the voice in the off every two seconds. My advice would be one presenter sticks to one car, otherwise it is hard to distinguish weather you are talking about the S4 or the RS4.
IIRC, B8 has hydraulic steering with electric assist (whatever that means). At least that’s what I remember being told when I got my B8. The B8.5 is definitely electric, though. They feel completely different.
ATTENTION! The 4.2 V8 in the RS4 is NOT the same as the timing chain failure prone 4.2 V8 in the B6/B7 S4. I notice way to many people thinking the B7 RS4 has an unreliable engine which it has not, probably one of Audis/VAG's most reliable engines.
The 4.2 and the 4.2 fsi are practically the same motor with various updated. The timing is the same except the guides in the rs4 are metal. I just built a 4.2 with the rs4 timing kit
I have a 2016 S5, and on 18" winter tires the feedback is completely different from the 20" summer tires. Also have the active rear diff, and that helps a great deal on cornering.
Thank you guys for the informative and thorough review. I remember watching this when it came out last summer, and decided a used B8 S4 would be in my future for daily driving here in Oregon. There are many wonderful reasons to live in Oregon, but having a large selection of used S4's is not one them. So finally, after 4 months of keeping my eyes open, a low-mileage 2011 sprint blue S4 came up for sale. I jumped on it. After 3 weeks of ownership, I can confirm that your comments on the car are spot-on. I have an 80-mile round trip commute to work each day, and just came from a Focus ST. Yes, the steering feel is muted and you are a bit insulated from the road, but for a daily driver, especially in Oregon winters, that's a good thing. As you pointed out, the AWD system is awesome and provides a level of stability on the hwy that the fwd Focus ST was missing. Your tip about needing a second 'fun' car is spot-on as well... So I have NC Miata set up for Auto-X, as nothing this side of a Lotus has better steering feel. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
They are actually a combination of both hydraulic and electronic (hyrdo-electronic) steering. The newer Audis have a far more electronic biased steering and you loose a lot of feedback and the system is quite numb.
I think that is a big part of it. To my understanding it is a way of keeping hydraulic steering but allows for adjusting, such as different steering setting like street and sport.
I have an Rs4 with over a 100,000 miles on it.... It hasn’t been maintained as well as it should by the previous owners but you wouldn’t know it. The engine is wonderful! It’s built like a tank! 😁
Hey, do you still have it? I've been thinking about getting one but I'm afraid of something going horribly wrong with the engine, especially because it's used. I know the big problems are the timing chain, water pump, and PCV, but will replacing all of those prevent anything else catastrophic from randomly happening? (plus good oil changes and such, the normal stuff).
Loved seeing these two Audis compared. Constantly swapping between interior shots of both cars driven by both reviewers made it really hard to follow which was which. Would have been better if Paul drove one car and Todd drove the other. Or review RS4 first, then S4 second.
The B8 S4 (2010-2012) has hydraulic steering. The B8.5 (2013-present) have electronic steering. Since that's a 2011 -- it's hydraulic. The B8 S4 is a great car and a definite sleeper. The B8.5 can hit 60 in 4.4 stock. With a Stage 2 tune with pulley upgrade, they get like 150 more hp & I've seen a 3.8 second to 60 run. The DSG is quicker than the manual.
Great video guys! I'm definitely happy with my S4. Sure I would love a Cayman or 911 but the S4 checked 99% of the boxes for what I needed and was looking for.
yes they kind of are. because you can get a new wrx for the same price of a used s4 or older rs4. so who in his right mind would still pick up the Subaru when you can get an Audi that will give you more?
i clicked onto this thinking this was another car magazine making their show for youtube, but the fact that it has such high production value alongside the professional presentation from just you two is incredible
Adrian Fidi I think they hit it on the head the rs4 makes you want to go out for a drive vs the s4 is a nice ride at least stock don't get me wrong nice looking car but I'd want something more out there
Happy driving 🙂 Bought a 2010 3.2 FSI Quattro sedan with Tiptronic and 44.000 kilometers on it with full Audi history and nearly full optioned for 10.000€ today in Monzasilver. Great car, but I'm missing gear 7 and 8 like in your S4 for highway cruising
Great comparison. Just a note at the end: no RS4 8E / B7 from factory ever reached the performance of 420hp. They were all between realistic 370-390hp at the crank, depending on mileage the real bad ones do 350hp. There's carbon buildup in the cylinder heads on one side, on the other there's the airbox inlet which is too small. The engine will not get the air the engine is trying to get. Audi knew about this problem, so they decided to mount a flap in the airbox to reduce drag. Unfortunately they placed it directly at the header, which will lead to excessive intake air temperatures when opened at low speeds manually. So the flap will only open at speeds exceeding 125mph. Do the carbon cleaning and a good cold air intake system and it'll have it's 420hp. If you are used to the RS4 it's like day and night before/after. Great car, great engine which is bullet proof when it's serviced properly.
Finally, a proper Audi video. I started watching this channel back when Paul put up that Avant video. It's what got me into a B7 Avant and Avants in general(I've owned a C6, and now a C6.5).
The B8 that he is driving has a Hydraulic rack meanwhile they keep citing that it has a Electric rack and badmouthing it. If that’s not a Placebo effect then idk what is.
I drive a B8 generation S5. It has all the amenities that the B8 S4 in this video had, but a lot of the characteristics of the RS4 as well as my car uses the 4.2L V8. It's, if you ask me, the best of both worlds. Probably slightly slower than the 3.0T S4, about the same speed of the RS4. And the only "trade off" is it being a coupe, if you're not into that sort of thing. A very good balance between the two vehicles shown here.
Guys, I love you, but how can you ask why someone would want more power, especially from that Audi supercharged V6? A tune, alone, will bring you above 400 bhp since Audi limited it from the factory, as they didn't want it to impede on RS4 sales. Sure, it is fast, stock, but are you really saying you wouldn't pay for a tune to add 70-80 bhp without compromising reliability?
- All good points. And Paul is the guy that always wants more power. Keep in mind that he was mainly talking about the quiet exhaust in that "why would you tune it" comment. More power is always welcomed. Thanks for watching!
I had the pleasure of driving a STaSIS-packaged car when I worked in sales for an Audi dealer, back-to-back with my stock 2012 S4 demo car. The tune and exhaust really gives the car the extra character it lacks in standard trim; I know what you mean about it feeling like a German performance Camry, but the S4 is just wonderful to live with. I'll replace my aging RS6 with a B8 S4 when budget permits.
+Corey Kononchuk make sure it's a late model. I own a 2011 and the transmission on it is garbage. Audi finally gave in after the last failure and partially paid for a brand new one to swap in. Mind you I still had to cover part of the cost. Which infuriated me to no limit.
I recently purchased an S4 Avant B6 and it is really a stunning car to drive, amazing. She has a full service history to the dreaded timing chain SEEMS ok. Stunning power and torque.
Yup and it does have some steering road feel in dynamic mode that does give you a sense of the road when pushed (not at low speeds). This review kinda exposes these guys as as not doing their homework and not being able to feel road vibrations.
The biggest difference between these two is going to be cost of ownership. The S4 returns 22-23mpg average vs 16-18mpg in the RS4. The RS4 shares brakes with the R8 and Gallardo and they are extremely expensive to replace. DRC suspension will fail and you will find yourself wanting to replace them with coil-overs. I've owned a B8 S4 and driven an RS4 several times and can attest that the RS4 is much more raw and enjoyable overall, but the S4 is more sensible to live with everyday. That being said I'm no more sensible as I choose to daily drive an RS6 which gets worse fuel mileage, has the same brakes as the RS4 and needs a timing belt service every 35k miles. However having 450bhp and 415lb/ft on tap at a price point lower than both the B8 S4 and B7 RS4 is the justification for ownership in my case!
I've read a lot about the maintenance costs of the RS6. That thing is a beast. Audi doesn't make cars like that anymore. I'd love to own one, but I think I'll stick to with my relatively cheap to maintain B6 S4.
I have the 2010 S4. Went to stage 2 and wow.. it makes a huge difference.. night and day when hitting about 3,500 RPM between stock and moded APR stage 2
Everytime I watch a video on Audis it’s always the same thing. Oversteer, understeer yet everyone thinks they are the greatest drivers. You’re not the greatest driver if you need the perfect conditions, the perfect car, the perfect tires. It’s when you can handle the oversteer, understeer, rear wheels breaking out from you and still put the car where you want it.
OK I'm now a fan of your channel . I personally own a Daytona 07 Rs4 and a 15 Sepang S4 w/ S-Tronic and Blk Optic package. The S4 is my DD. Your descriptions are very good considering you only had what appears to be a weekend in both cars. The S4 is almost as fast IMO, if you were to do a 4th gear pull...the Rs4 would pull away good. What the Rs4 offers is what you guys said..personality. Its wonderfully analog. It has that pre-flatplane crank sound that is cacophonous to 8200rpms. I've always felt that the Rs4 is a smoking hot MILF that ran track in college but still does local 5K's and crushes 20 somethings in stilettos , while the S4 is the sweet good looking daughter that tries to emulate the Mom but in flats. Keep up the good work !
Does the redline of both engines affect driving pleasure? I believe the B7 RS4 had an extremely high redlines (8700rpm?) vs the B8 S4 (6500rpm?). Good to note that the U.S B7 RS4 came missing with a lot of interior goodies. Most notable is the Euro carbon bucket seats and the thick flat-bottomed steering wheel.
I never thought i would love an audi after driving range rovers for many years till i bought a 13 q5 hybrid, that 400 lbs torque is ridiculous, u cant even hear the engine unless u really get into it. i have never drove such a precise quiet better driving car. i wonder if the rs4 is as refined as my q5. obviously more power.
Currently owning a b7 s4, I just couldn't see myself replacing an RS4 v8 for a V6 S4 engine simply based on what you guys said.... Character! Love it guys keep up the great work!
Can you read? "Affordable AWD performance cars aren't common, and the Subaru WRX is often on the short list. But what about getting a used Audi for the same money. We put a similarly priced RS4 and S4 together to talk about all-weather performance, fun, and what gives a car personality."
Jeremy should have brought an older manual transmission Audi S3 instead of the much faster 4.3L V8 RS4 to fight Richard’s and James’ 2.0L I4 Turbo Subaru Impreza WRX STi and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.
The 2011 Audi S4 has hydraulic steering, not electric steering. Kind of odd you would make such an error considering you talked about the steering of the car so much.
Isn't the 2011 Audi S4 the last year of the mechanical steering rack and in 2012 onward they went electrical? So the steering should be similar but just a different ratio to that of the RS4.
Now do a comparo of the RS4 vs. the E9x M3, maybe even the C63 please! Would love to see an updated and more factual version of that comparison than the Top Gear bit.
I wish there is a review for the new 2018 s4 or all s4 in comparison. The content are very informative but the title I don't agree. Audi might not be the 1st on every categories, but 2nd on every categories in one car which make their car become one of the best for daily drive. If you are buying an Audi s4 for the track car or 0-100km/h that's wrong car to choose. Thanks again for this beautiful shot. One of the best channels.
Good for you man! That's the last "Real" 3-Series ( E90) before BMW switched to numb electric steering and Chassis dynamics that belong on a Lincoln lol
*Paul **12:38** there's a reason why the S4 isn't suppose to be as thrilling to drive as the RS4- regardless of it being the newer generation. Thats where the B8 generation RS4 comes in. I know that people in USA didn't get it and I know that it is exclusively an avant but IT DOES EXIST. Also don't you guys get the RS5s imported? It has the same 8250rpm 4.2 V8*
B8 S5 2008-2012 with the 4.2 V8 does not have the timing chain problems. I own a 2010 with 75k, runs the same as it did when I got it at 30k miles. Get compliments on it all the time. It has a respectable 355hp & 320lbs torque, plenty for a DD in which is how I use mine. AWE track exhaust on it is something else.
Ignoring reliability and ownership costs as a fun four door which would you prefer, B7 RS4 or Lexus ISF (the later model with lsd)? Does the manual vs auto make all the difference or perhaps the extra torque and real wheel drive trump the 4wd and power deficit? Thanks
My 2010 S4/Camry is like new with less than 40k miles. It only about 20hp short of a Ferrari F40 and likely quicker than the F40. A complete monster of a car and much quicker than my 997 9114s.
My thought is what are the repair costs going to be? Fun drive is awesome, as long as someone else is paying for the constant trips to be repair shops.
are you guys talking cash price, private seller price or dealer price? Every time someone says you can get X car for $Y, I can never seem to locate an example at the quoted $Y price, as if it were a Unicorn or something. Looking w/in 100 miles of my area (Cinci'), there are 7 listings for 2010-2013 S4s in the prices you mentioned w/ the lowest ('12) at $31K w/47k miles and the highest ('13) at $38k w/17K miles...adding a manual transmission takes my selection down to ONE; a '13 at $37k w/42k miles...not exactly the bargains you guys were speaking of, but I guess these cars are 3 years newer than the S4 in your video.
5:16 What did you mean by this? Useless because it's not enough to convincingly get past an Accord poking along? Or is poking along meaning going slow?
- There was an Accord in front of Paul that was going very slowly in a place where Paul couldn't pass. The S4 has plenty of power to make the pass, but that comment was made when he had no opportunity. Thanks for watching!
I had a 2004 Audi b6 1.8t 6 speed manual quattro of course. I loved the car but when things broke down it was a headache to deal with. As a average mechanic at best I tried to do what I could, kind of made me glad I didn't end up getting a b5 s4 as I originally planned. But for some reason like many other Audi owners I know I will own a rs4 or s4 even if it means having to spend 5k on a the stupid chain tensioners.
Stumbled over this video while thinking about buying a facelift B8 S4 in 2020. I have to admit, I kinda admire the old stick shift B7 RS4, maybe not the fastest sport sedan, but will an amazing vehicle. Also, the RS4 Alta plate on the rs4 is hilarious to me as a German.
It's so funny to watch this video, this is where I go with my WRX and motorcycle for fun short drives. SLC up Emigration and over down that hill through the 'chicane' and then straight to the freeway.
yes just google rs4 carbon build up and see how serious the issue is... speaking as someone who highly considered this vehicle, I saw so many owners jus getting sick of this rs4 maintenance... they have pretty bad suspension, swapping to a good coilover setup will solve the issue, no problem there. but those carbon buildup every 10K~15K miles...to a point where you really don't wanna own/drive the car
Yes, I have heard though this is a common problem with many engines using direct injection fueling. Audi's are not known for reliability in their more hardcore sports sedans. The B5 S4 is a good example of that. And trying to work on anything is such a nightmare. Just try and bleed the clutch! It's rediculous! Good cars but maintenance is going to suck, both for accessibility and price
Carbon build up is real - fact. But fixable... and worth living with. Had my B7 RS4 de-coked just once in 50k miles and it is still showing over 400bhp on the dyno. Its just an epic engine. And DRS suspension, if looked after, is still pretty damned good. Love mine to bits...the smile the engine note gives you is worth any minor issues with carbon.
I have an opportunity to purchase a 2002 Porsche Carrera 4 Cabriolet with 64,000 miles, engine swapped for a 52,000 mile engine, IMS replaced for $15,000. Is this a good purchase? Please advise...🙏
So is the steering in 2011 S4 electric or hydraulic? I thought B8.5 has electric...and even with electric there are 2 different steering racks...one with fixed ratio and the other on is from RS5 I think with dynamic variable ration. Correct me if wrong
The road test is pretty redundant since they're on winter tyres. Throw some PS2s on there and take the to dry roads and you'll have vastly different characteristics.
James Franklin pilot super sport yes what the hell is the rest of it? Not cup 2 tires? you couldn't possibly be talking about track tires for your daily audi bro
Why not like both? I Love the Boxer engine and symmetrical Awd in Subarus. And I love the "bigger" engines and Quattro in Audis! They both tackle the same things and both are damn good at it.
Evan Finch the layout is the same with the guides in the back, but the guides are different as well as the engine. There aren't guide issues with the RS4
Have you guys ever considered doing part of the review driving at night? I feel that's a big part of driving as well as all other weather conditions. Awesome video as always!
Nice cars but they have an Achilles heel: Cost of parts when something breaks... You get a WRX/STi, parts will be A LOT cheaper and easier to come by. And having driven both a WRX and a 2000 S4, I prefer the wrx in most instances (they both sound amazing though!) . Shifter and clutch feel on the audi's are way too vague and soft. Not to mention V6 audi's have what most people would call a reliability issue. The friend who own's the 2000 S4 used to own a 2006 wrx until someone crashed into it; and he also preferred the WRX to the audi. Yes the Audi's have way more gizmo's and creature comfort, but that comes at the expense of added weight. Just my .02
My thoughts exactly. If you have a budget of $30k and are considering between a new WRX or a used Audi, then you need to make this decision with eyes open, and take into consideration that the Audi will be off of warranty, and the major service intervals will be approaching and parts will be failing. As Doug Demuro over at Jalopnik said recently about his nine year old Aston Martin that he bought for $45k, "just because you can afford to buy a car doesn't mean that you can afford to own a car."
There is one thing though in particular to remember with an Audi, and only an Audi. While Mercedes Benz and BMW have historically had significant reliability issues and are more complicated, Audi has seldom has the same issues and their cars are actually often simpler. My uncle who owns Pinnacle Motor Works in Stirling, NJ, and has been fixing European premium brand performance and luxury cars for forty years, has told me that Audi is by far the most reliable of the German car brands. Now by no means would he say that an Audi is cheap to fix when something does go wrong, but if you have a good mechanic who knows what he or she is working with, they can diagnose a potential problem long before it becomes a problem and fix it cheaply before it becomes expensive. It's why my first car, a 2003 Mercedes Benz E500, lasted up to 300,000 miles with only one major mechanical issue (the original battery and alternator went at 260,000) before it was traded in. And its why I'm confident my 2015 Volkswagen GTI SE with the Performance Pack, DCC, and DSG, will last just as long.
So I've owned and built a fairly heavily built 2002 WRX (built 2.5, PPG gearbox,alcohol injection and more), a 2007 STi Cobb stage 2, and now a B8 S4 fully loaded: I'd take my S4 all day everyday. It's heavier, but immensely nicer inside and out, and while its performance isn't as raw and analog, I don't lack for a smile on my face pushing it. It really comes down to me getting to enjoy a sharp, comfortable and higher quality car when I want it, that gets down and dirty with its ass out thanks to its rear diff when I want it to. Also at 67000 miles its been perfectly reliable. I'll always love the scoobies, but I've personally just come to want more from my car. Might be getting old -.-
SofaKingLeet I'm sorry to hear that; mostly because the 08 chassis was one of the worst in Subaru history, which is why they made significant changes in 09
The Audi's feel like they're going a lot slower than they actually are. It's easy to go fast in them, and they handle the speed very well.
Elycius M. Very true. Especially if you let your foot sleep in sport mode. B8 A4. Turbocharged i4.
Same thing goes with my B9 A4. About 260 HP in a car of that size is a lot. Best thing is how well it sticks to the road thanks to awesome tires and Quattro working hand in hand. Audi makes by far some of the best luxury/sports cars on the planet.
Ultimate highway cruisers! My B6 A6 avant feels plenty quick with only 220HP!
True, its easy to go over speed limits because you don't feel the speed and the acceleration is fast and VERY smooth...
I just found a mint condition '05 S4 and I am constantly looking at the speedometer because at 100mph it feels like 60. It's so unbelievable smooth.
Great Video! But I find it very irritation that you switch the presenter / the voice in the off every two seconds. My advice would be one presenter sticks to one car, otherwise it is hard to distinguish weather you are talking about the S4 or the RS4.
Versatzgetriebe I thought I am the only one. how hard is it to follow the review n which car are they talking about
True
I like how they do it. One per car doesn't take the comparison across.
The S4 has a smooth wheel, the RS4 has dimples.
Agree. Was highly confusing. Usually it isn't a problem. The two gray vehicles didn't help.
the B8 S4's have hydraulic steering not electric, the B8.5 S4's switched to electric steering
Exactly
Had no idea, thought they were all electric. Thanks for the 2 year late info.
Reason #2 why I can't sell mine!
IIRC, B8 has hydraulic steering with electric assist (whatever that means). At least that’s what I remember being told when I got my B8. The B8.5 is definitely electric, though. They feel completely different.
Just swooped a moonlight blue metallic example, 6 MT w/ Sports Differential
ATTENTION!
The 4.2 V8 in the RS4 is NOT the same as the timing chain failure prone 4.2 V8 in the B6/B7 S4.
I notice way to many people thinking the B7 RS4 has an unreliable engine which it has not, probably one of Audis/VAG's most reliable engines.
AxXeNiCe you sir are correct👍
Carbon build up would be their crutch like the timing chain is to the b6/b7 s4’s
The 4.2 and the 4.2 fsi are practically the same motor with various updated. The timing is the same except the guides in the rs4 are metal. I just built a 4.2 with the rs4 timing kit
I'm a little late, but if you buy the RS4 or JHM chain guides, then you can make the 4.2 in the S4 pretty reliable.
this
I have a 2016 S5, and on 18" winter tires the feedback is completely different from the 20" summer tires. Also have the active rear diff, and that helps a great deal on cornering.
Thank you guys for the informative and thorough review. I remember watching this when it came out last summer, and decided a used B8 S4 would be in my future for daily driving here in Oregon. There are many wonderful reasons to live in Oregon, but having a large selection of used S4's is not one them. So finally, after 4 months of keeping my eyes open, a low-mileage 2011 sprint blue S4 came up for sale. I jumped on it. After 3 weeks of ownership, I can confirm that your comments on the car are spot-on. I have an 80-mile round trip commute to work each day, and just came from a Focus ST. Yes, the steering feel is muted and you are a bit insulated from the road, but for a daily driver, especially in Oregon winters, that's a good thing. As you pointed out, the AWD system is awesome and provides a level of stability on the hwy that the fwd Focus ST was missing.
Your tip about needing a second 'fun' car is spot-on as well... So I have NC Miata set up for Auto-X, as nothing this side of a Lotus has better steering feel.
Thanks again and keep up the good work.
jjuhring1 Appreciate the insights. What is it about the S4 that has everyone so freaked out about buying one used? How has yours held up so far?
The B7 RS4 interior looks a million times better with the bucket seats and sport steering wheel from Europe
Steering is hydraulic in both cars....
Correct!
They are actually a combination of both hydraulic and electronic (hyrdo-electronic) steering. The newer Audis have a far more electronic biased steering and you loose a lot of feedback and the system is quite numb.
This is true. B8.5 went electronic.
+Chance Hales to clarify this just means it's an electronic pump moving the hydronic fluid instead of a belt driven pump, right?
I think that is a big part of it. To my understanding it is a way of keeping hydraulic steering but allows for adjusting, such as different steering setting like street and sport.
I have an Rs4 with over a 100,000 miles on it....
It hasn’t been maintained as well as it should by the previous owners but you wouldn’t know it.
The engine is wonderful!
It’s built like a tank! 😁
Hey, do you still have it? I've been thinking about getting one but I'm afraid of something going horribly wrong with the engine, especially because it's used. I know the big problems are the timing chain, water pump, and PCV, but will replacing all of those prevent anything else catastrophic from randomly happening? (plus good oil changes and such, the normal stuff).
i wait for your videos eagerly..you are one of the only few ones who show how can one have fun on winter tires..
filming was top notch aswell
Loved seeing these two Audis compared. Constantly swapping between interior shots of both cars driven by both reviewers made it really hard to follow which was which. Would have been better if Paul drove one car and Todd drove the other. Or review RS4 first, then S4 second.
Did the S4 had the optional sport diff? Didn't see you guys mentioned if the owner option it up that way
The B8 S4 (2010-2012) has hydraulic steering. The B8.5 (2013-present) have electronic steering. Since that's a 2011 -- it's hydraulic. The B8 S4 is a great car and a definite sleeper. The B8.5 can hit 60 in 4.4 stock. With a Stage 2 tune with pulley upgrade, they get like 150 more hp & I've seen a 3.8 second to 60 run. The DSG is quicker than the manual.
Great video guys! I'm definitely happy with my S4. Sure I would love a Cayman or 911 but the S4 checked 99% of the boxes for what I needed and was looking for.
WRX isn't even in the same league. Apples and oranges.
yes they kind of are. because you can get a new wrx for the same price of a used s4 or older rs4. so who in his right mind would still pick up the Subaru when you can get an Audi that will give you more?
Correct. Because sometimes an orange will give you the zing you won't get from an apple. But you still like apples!
bel976 Subarus are trash
Quix lmao. Yeah when they go neglected for so long. When maintained with little stuff here and there it’s not that bad
“Preach brotha!”
i clicked onto this thinking this was another car magazine making their show for youtube, but the fact that it has such high production value alongside the professional presentation from just you two is incredible
S4 impressed by performance and driving feel
but the RS4 is just a Special car , not just for VAG fans
Adrian Fidi what's a Vag fan?
Volkwagen Auto Group
I'm a Vag fan, but I think we're talking about two different things.
VAG means "Volkswagen Aktien Gesellschaft" which translates to "Volkswagen group corporation".
Adrian Fidi I think they hit it on the head the rs4 makes you want to go out for a drive vs the s4 is a nice ride at least stock don't get me wrong nice looking car but I'd want something more out there
After watching this a while back I sought out a used S4. Found a one owner 2010 with 37k for $21k. I love the car. Thanks for the video
Happy driving 🙂 Bought a 2010 3.2 FSI Quattro sedan with Tiptronic and 44.000 kilometers on it with full Audi history and nearly full optioned for 10.000€ today in Monzasilver. Great car, but I'm missing gear 7 and 8 like in your S4 for highway cruising
Great comparison. Just a note at the end: no RS4 8E / B7 from factory ever reached the performance of 420hp. They were all between realistic 370-390hp at the crank, depending on mileage the real bad ones do 350hp. There's carbon buildup in the cylinder heads on one side, on the other there's the airbox inlet which is too small. The engine will not get the air the engine is trying to get. Audi knew about this problem, so they decided to mount a flap in the airbox to reduce drag. Unfortunately they placed it directly at the header, which will lead to excessive intake air temperatures when opened at low speeds manually. So the flap will only open at speeds exceeding 125mph. Do the carbon cleaning and a good cold air intake system and it'll have it's 420hp. If you are used to the RS4 it's like day and night before/after. Great car, great engine which is bullet proof when it's serviced properly.
Finally, a proper Audi video. I started watching this channel back when Paul put up that Avant video. It's what got me into a B7 Avant and Avants in general(I've owned a C6, and now a C6.5).
No comparison. The Subbie interior is where The Dollar Store met the plastic recycling center. The Camry only just came out with AWD for 2020 models.
B8 Audi S4 does not use electronic steering rack it's hydraulic, B8.5 was when Audi first introduced it to the S4
RS4 and 2010-12 (B8) S4 both have hydraulic steering. Only 2013+(B8.5) S4 changed over to electric steering.
The B8 that he is driving has a Hydraulic rack meanwhile they keep citing that it has a Electric rack and badmouthing it. If that’s not a Placebo effect then idk what is.
The B8 steering rack is hydraulic but dynamic. The B 8.5 went electric.
Yup and he keeps acting like he dislikes it yet doesn’t even know what he’s talking about.
2011 s4 for sure. to be a daily you gonna need that superior technology and is more prety. just love it i really want one
Also - that 11 S4 does not have dynamic steering. The ratio does not change. It only gets more or less stiff in the different modes.
Beautiful photography in this one - very nice.
Thank you!
@ 0:56, The way the triangular red portion of the lower reverse light lines up with the line in the concrete floor is highly satisfying.
I drive a B8 generation S5. It has all the amenities that the B8 S4 in this video had, but a lot of the characteristics of the RS4 as well as my car uses the 4.2L V8. It's, if you ask me, the best of both worlds. Probably slightly slower than the 3.0T S4, about the same speed of the RS4. And the only "trade off" is it being a coupe, if you're not into that sort of thing. A very good balance between the two vehicles shown here.
FYI, video is wrong, the steering is hydraulic on the B8 up to 2012 and electric from 2013 and up.
S4 with the tune is Bananas!
Guys, I love you, but how can you ask why someone would want more power, especially from that Audi supercharged V6? A tune, alone, will bring you above 400 bhp since Audi limited it from the factory, as they didn't want it to impede on RS4 sales.
Sure, it is fast, stock, but are you really saying you wouldn't pay for a tune to add 70-80 bhp without compromising reliability?
- All good points. And Paul is the guy that always wants more power. Keep in mind that he was mainly talking about the quiet exhaust in that "why would you tune it" comment. More power is always welcomed. Thanks for watching!
+EverydayDriver I've been watching you guys since the beginning, and it's always been my pleasure. Keep up the hard work; we really do appreciate it.
I had the pleasure of driving a STaSIS-packaged car when I worked in sales for an Audi dealer, back-to-back with my stock 2012 S4 demo car. The tune and exhaust really gives the car the extra character it lacks in standard trim; I know what you mean about it feeling like a German performance Camry, but the S4 is just wonderful to live with. I'll replace my aging RS6 with a B8 S4 when budget permits.
+Corey Kononchuk make sure it's a late model. I own a 2011 and the transmission on it is garbage. Audi finally gave in after the last failure and partially paid for a brand new one to swap in. Mind you I still had to cover part of the cost. Which infuriated me to no limit.
ZCherish tune doesn't get you 400hp crank bro my buddy has one to get that you need pulley, tune and a little exhaust
Old vid I know, but these cars both have hydraulic steering guys. The B8 didn't get electric steering until they facelifted it.
"RS4,ALTA!" on the front licence plate is actually German for "RS4, BRO!"
Hilarious! :DDD
The other guy looks like Buffalo Bill from the Silence of the Lambs but great videos still.
He does a little
oh wait....was she a great big fiat peerson?
Looks kinda like he dresses up like a lady on the weekends.
Amazing job, guys!
By the way, your appearance on Autoblog made for the best episode in a long time.
I recently purchased an S4 Avant B6 and it is really a stunning car to drive, amazing. She has a full service history to the dreaded timing chain SEEMS ok. Stunning power and torque.
Decently sure the B8 still had hydraulic steering. Wasn't until the 2013 B8.5 refresh that they moved to electric steering.
I was thinking the same.
Yup and it does have some steering road feel in dynamic mode that does give you a sense of the road when pushed (not at low speeds). This review kinda exposes these guys as as not doing their homework and not being able to feel road vibrations.
@@BrianWEnglish 99% reviewers dont feel cars, but telling myths and talking what audience wants to hear.
Damn you guys beautiful work! That shot way above the apex 8n the half circle was breath taking. Just amazing
Rs4 wagon my dream car🤤
The biggest difference between these two is going to be cost of ownership. The S4 returns 22-23mpg average vs 16-18mpg in the RS4. The RS4 shares brakes with the R8 and Gallardo and they are extremely expensive to replace. DRC suspension will fail and you will find yourself wanting to replace them with coil-overs. I've owned a B8 S4 and driven an RS4 several times and can attest that the RS4 is much more raw and enjoyable overall, but the S4 is more sensible to live with everyday.
That being said I'm no more sensible as I choose to daily drive an RS6 which gets worse fuel mileage, has the same brakes as the RS4 and needs a timing belt service every 35k miles. However having 450bhp and 415lb/ft on tap at a price point lower than both the B8 S4 and B7 RS4 is the justification for ownership in my case!
I've read a lot about the maintenance costs of the RS6. That thing is a beast. Audi doesn't make cars like that anymore. I'd love to own one, but I think I'll stick to with my relatively cheap to maintain B6 S4.
I agree with your review but how about a stock B8 S4 vs. a modded B8 S4 (stage 1) vs. a modded B8 S4 (Stage 2)?
I have the 2010 S4. Went to stage 2 and wow.. it makes a huge difference.. night and day when hitting about 3,500 RPM between stock and moded APR stage 2
Everytime I watch a video on Audis it’s always the same thing. Oversteer, understeer yet everyone thinks they are the greatest drivers. You’re not the greatest driver if you need the perfect conditions, the perfect car, the perfect tires. It’s when you can handle the oversteer, understeer, rear wheels breaking out from you and still put the car where you want it.
OK I'm now a fan of your channel . I personally own a Daytona 07 Rs4 and a 15 Sepang S4 w/ S-Tronic and Blk Optic package. The S4 is my DD. Your descriptions are very good considering you only had what appears to be a weekend in both cars.
The S4 is almost as fast IMO, if you were to do a 4th gear pull...the Rs4 would pull away good. What the Rs4 offers is what you guys said..personality. Its wonderfully analog. It has that pre-flatplane crank sound that is cacophonous to 8200rpms.
I've always felt that the Rs4 is a smoking hot MILF that ran track in college but still does local 5K's and crushes 20 somethings in stilettos , while the S4 is the sweet good looking daughter that tries to emulate the Mom but in flats.
Keep up the good work !
Does the redline of both engines affect driving pleasure? I believe the B7 RS4 had an extremely high redlines (8700rpm?) vs the B8 S4 (6500rpm?). Good to note that the U.S B7 RS4 came missing with a lot of interior goodies. Most notable is the Euro carbon bucket seats and the thick flat-bottomed steering wheel.
I never thought i would love an audi after driving range rovers for many years till i bought a 13 q5 hybrid, that 400 lbs torque is ridiculous, u cant even hear the engine unless u really get into it. i have never drove such a precise quiet better driving car. i wonder if the rs4 is as refined as my q5. obviously more power.
First time viewer. Great production and informed opinions. I really enjoyed your guys' demeanour. I've subscribed for more!
Currently owning a b7 s4, I just couldn't see myself replacing an RS4 v8 for a V6 S4 engine simply based on what you guys said.... Character! Love it guys keep up the great work!
Why is wrx in the title.
Because these are two alternatives to buying a new WRX?
yeah, pissed that i didnt get to see the camry
Can you read? "Affordable AWD performance cars aren't common, and the Subaru WRX is often on the short list. But what about getting a used Audi for the same money. We put a similarly priced RS4 and S4 together to talk about all-weather performance, fun, and what gives a car personality."
David Stancu
Don't know why everyone hates on Camry. Drove the '16 SE and XSE, and was impressed! What are they expecting, a Porsche?
I drove a 15 SE as a rental for a week and I wanted to shoot myself. I guess that's why there's something for everyone..
Jeremy should have brought an older manual transmission Audi S3 instead of the much faster 4.3L V8 RS4 to fight Richard’s and James’ 2.0L I4 Turbo Subaru Impreza WRX STi and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.
The 2011 Audi S4 has hydraulic steering, not electric steering. Kind of odd you would make such an error considering you talked about the steering of the car so much.
Isn't the 2011 Audi S4 the last year of the mechanical steering rack and in 2012 onward they went electrical? So the steering should be similar but just a different ratio to that of the RS4.
One of the best intros I've ever seen to a channel. Subbed immediately
Now do a comparo of the RS4 vs. the E9x M3, maybe even the C63 please! Would love to see an updated and more factual version of that comparison than the Top Gear bit.
What's the meaning behind the title by comparing it to WRX and Camrys?? Family sedans?
I wish there is a review for the new 2018 s4 or all s4 in comparison. The content are very informative but the title I don't agree. Audi might not be the 1st on every categories, but 2nd on every categories in one car which make their car become one of the best for daily drive. If you are buying an Audi s4 for the track car or 0-100km/h that's wrong car to choose. Thanks again for this beautiful shot. One of the best channels.
The B7 RS4 is rare? There are 2 of them on my street in Toronto...
great review as always guys
GLC43 ! WRX is _always_ on the list of affordable AWD performance.
I have a 2013 Audi S4 prestige that I picked up for 30k I put another 5k into it for APR Stage 2+ tune and stoptech brakes and it's amazing.
I found a 2011 335 xdrive msport with 9k miles for 30k in 2015 loving it
Big fan of high performance awd sedans
Good for you man! That's the last "Real" 3-Series ( E90) before BMW switched to numb electric steering and Chassis dynamics that belong on a Lincoln lol
I love your videos from years and years ago.. you guys rock
What about 335xi or maybe just 328xi?
*Paul **12:38** there's a reason why the S4 isn't suppose to be as thrilling to drive as the RS4- regardless of it being the newer generation. Thats where the B8 generation RS4 comes in. I know that people in USA didn't get it and I know that it is exclusively an avant but IT DOES EXIST. Also don't you guys get the RS5s imported? It has the same 8250rpm 4.2 V8*
The B7 RS4 weighs about 3,571 lbs. The RS5 weighs between 4,000-4400lbs. That is a huge difference in weight. It did gain 30hp at the crank though.
Where'd you get that number from? B7 RS4s consistently weigh in the 3960-4000lbs range.
4:20...didn't need to watch anymore.
I concur
Did your S4 have the active sport differential option?
B8 S5 2008-2012 with the 4.2 V8 does not have the timing chain problems. I own a 2010 with 75k, runs the same as it did when I got it at 30k miles. Get compliments on it all the time. It has a respectable 355hp & 320lbs torque, plenty for a DD in which is how I use mine. AWE track exhaust on it is something else.
Excellent work guys. I appreciate the efforts put into the review. "Graduating" to an S4 soon.
What are the squee sounds in the S4? you can hear them a few times, i hope it's just your shoes on the pedals and not the interior?
Ignoring reliability and ownership costs as a fun four door which would you prefer, B7 RS4 or Lexus ISF (the later model with lsd)? Does the manual vs auto make all the difference or perhaps the extra torque and real wheel drive trump the 4wd and power deficit? Thanks
My 2010 S4/Camry is like new with less than 40k miles. It only about 20hp short of a Ferrari F40 and likely quicker than the F40. A complete monster of a car and much quicker than my 997 9114s.
Great video as always. I really enjoyed this particular comparison as I'm currently cross shopping each of these models. Thanks!!
My thought is what are the repair costs going to be? Fun drive is awesome, as long as someone else is paying for the constant trips to be repair shops.
are you guys talking cash price, private seller price or dealer price? Every time someone says you can get X car for $Y, I can never seem to locate an example at the quoted $Y price, as if it were a Unicorn or something. Looking w/in 100 miles of my area (Cinci'), there are 7 listings for 2010-2013 S4s in the prices you mentioned w/ the lowest ('12) at $31K w/47k miles and the highest ('13) at $38k w/17K miles...adding a manual transmission takes my selection down to ONE; a '13 at $37k w/42k miles...not exactly the bargains you guys were speaking of, but I guess these cars are 3 years newer than the S4 in your video.
5:16 What did you mean by this? Useless because it's not enough to convincingly get past an Accord poking along? Or is poking along meaning going slow?
- There was an Accord in front of Paul that was going very slowly in a place where Paul couldn't pass. The S4 has plenty of power to make the pass, but that comment was made when he had no opportunity. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the reply wasn't expecting it, I've heard 'poking' used to describe people going fast so just wasn't 100%.
BTW _ the S4 is NOT an electronic steering rack. It's the same hydraulic system as the RS4. The 2013 S4's and later got the electric steering rack.
I had a 2004 Audi b6 1.8t 6 speed manual quattro of course. I loved the car but when things broke down it was a headache to deal with. As a average mechanic at best I tried to do what I could, kind of made me glad I didn't end up getting a b5 s4 as I originally planned. But for some reason like many other Audi owners I know I will own a rs4 or s4 even if it means having to spend 5k on a the stupid chain tensioners.
Stumbled over this video while thinking about buying a facelift B8 S4 in 2020. I have to admit, I kinda admire the old stick shift B7 RS4, maybe not the fastest sport sedan, but will an amazing vehicle.
Also, the RS4 Alta plate on the rs4 is hilarious to me as a German.
Why you mod it up?
Because it greatly improves an already awesome experience.
May I ask, what camera do you use to film this episode?
What is the difference between Rs4 and S4
Thanks for the videos. Keep up the good work!
It's so funny to watch this video, this is where I go with my WRX and motorcycle for fun short drives. SLC up Emigration and over down that hill through the 'chicane' and then straight to the freeway.
Could you get your hands on a Focus RS to review?
Are RS4 engines known for massive carbon build up in short periods of time?
yes
just google rs4 carbon build up and see how serious the issue is...
speaking as someone who highly considered this vehicle, I saw so many owners jus getting sick of this rs4 maintenance...
they have pretty bad suspension, swapping to a good coilover setup will solve the issue, no problem there.
but those carbon buildup every 10K~15K miles...to a point where you really don't wanna own/drive the car
exactly... I always figured its low price (even though its rare in US) reflected the massive repair costs associated with ownership
Yes, I have heard though this is a common problem with many engines using direct injection fueling. Audi's are not known for reliability in their more hardcore sports sedans. The B5 S4 is a good example of that. And trying to work on anything is such a nightmare. Just try and bleed the clutch! It's rediculous! Good cars but maintenance is going to suck, both for accessibility and price
Carbon build up is real - fact. But fixable... and worth living with. Had my B7 RS4 de-coked just once in 50k miles and it is still showing over 400bhp on the dyno. Its just an epic engine. And DRS suspension, if looked after, is still pretty damned good. Love mine to bits...the smile the engine note gives you is worth any minor issues with carbon.
From what i researched and the reason I didn't get another audi is ALL Di audi's have carbon build up :(
I have an opportunity to purchase a 2002 Porsche Carrera 4 Cabriolet with 64,000 miles, engine swapped for a 52,000 mile engine, IMS replaced for $15,000. Is this a good purchase? Please advise...🙏
So is the steering in 2011 S4 electric or hydraulic? I thought B8.5 has electric...and even with electric there are 2 different steering racks...one with fixed ratio and the other on is from RS5 I think with dynamic variable ration. Correct me if wrong
I have A5 8T 2008 and its hydraulic
The road test is pretty redundant since they're on winter tyres. Throw some PS2s on there and take the to dry roads and you'll have vastly different characteristics.
pilot sport ps2s? Is this 2007 lol
James Franklin pilot super sport yes what the hell is the rest of it? Not cup 2 tires? you couldn't possibly be talking about track tires for your daily audi bro
AMG or BUST he's talking about pilot sport ps2s which were a high performance tire in like 2007
is there any audi sedan that is reliable close to 200k miles ?
rs4 is absolutely amazing!!!owned 2 diff s4,s and the rs4 is a total diff beast!!!!!
Why not like both?
I Love the Boxer engine and symmetrical Awd in Subarus.
And I love the "bigger" engines and Quattro in Audis!
They both tackle the same things and both are damn good at it.
I am pretty happy this video popped up in my recommendations. I really enjoyed the content you definitely earned my sub!
Have fun with the timing chain guides on the V8 cars. Price out the parts. You could buy a decent B5 S4 for the money.
Evan Finch not a problem with the RS4 only the B7 V8 s4
Same timing chain design.
Evan Finch the layout is the same with the guides in the back, but the guides are different as well as the engine. There aren't guide issues with the RS4
Cool video, but why publish this video at the beginning of summer?
Have you guys ever considered doing part of the review driving at night? I feel that's a big part of driving as well as all other weather conditions. Awesome video as always!
I really like these guys and I've owned a B8 and currently own a B8.5 S4, but this was pretty dull.
Nice cars but they have an Achilles heel: Cost of parts when something breaks... You get a WRX/STi, parts will be A LOT cheaper and easier to come by. And having driven both a WRX and a 2000 S4, I prefer the wrx in most instances (they both sound amazing though!) . Shifter and clutch feel on the audi's are way too vague and soft. Not to mention V6 audi's have what most people would call a reliability issue. The friend who own's the 2000 S4 used to own a 2006 wrx until someone crashed into it; and he also preferred the WRX to the audi. Yes the Audi's have way more gizmo's and creature comfort, but that comes at the expense of added weight. Just my .02
My thoughts exactly. If you have a budget of $30k and are considering between a new WRX or a used Audi, then you need to make this decision with eyes open, and take into consideration that the Audi will be off of warranty, and the major service intervals will be approaching and parts will be failing. As Doug Demuro over at Jalopnik said recently about his nine year old Aston Martin that he bought for $45k, "just because you can afford to buy a car doesn't mean that you can afford to own a car."
There is one thing though in particular to remember with an Audi, and only an Audi.
While Mercedes Benz and BMW have historically had significant reliability issues and are more complicated, Audi has seldom has the same issues and their cars are actually often simpler. My uncle who owns Pinnacle Motor Works in Stirling, NJ, and has been fixing European premium brand performance and luxury cars for forty years, has told me that Audi is by far the most reliable of the German car brands.
Now by no means would he say that an Audi is cheap to fix when something does go wrong, but if you have a good mechanic who knows what he or she is working with, they can diagnose a potential problem long before it becomes a problem and fix it cheaply before it becomes expensive.
It's why my first car, a 2003 Mercedes Benz E500, lasted up to 300,000 miles with only one major mechanical issue (the original battery and alternator went at 260,000) before it was traded in. And its why I'm confident my 2015 Volkswagen GTI SE with the Performance Pack, DCC, and DSG, will last just as long.
So I've owned and built a fairly heavily built 2002 WRX (built 2.5, PPG gearbox,alcohol injection and more), a 2007 STi Cobb stage 2, and now a B8 S4 fully loaded: I'd take my S4 all day everyday. It's heavier, but immensely nicer inside and out, and while its performance isn't as raw and analog, I don't lack for a smile on my face pushing it.
It really comes down to me getting to enjoy a sharp, comfortable and higher quality car when I want it, that gets down and dirty with its ass out thanks to its rear diff when I want it to. Also at 67000 miles its been perfectly reliable.
I'll always love the scoobies, but I've personally just come to want more from my car. Might be getting old -.-
ive owned an 08 wrx and i prefer my 01 TT any day of the week. different strokes though
SofaKingLeet I'm sorry to hear that; mostly because the 08 chassis was one of the worst in Subaru history, which is why they made significant changes in 09
Great comparison. I still miss my B7. BTW, where did you guys film this?
surprised you didn't burst the tires going that fast