BLUE TRAIN SHOOTOUT: BLUE NOTE OG, TONE POET, MUSIC MATTERS, ANALOGUE PRODUCTIONS
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2022
- Paul Wells and I compare John Coltrane "Blue Train" pressings including an early 1960s stereo OG, the recent Tone Poet stereo and mono editions, an Analogue Productions 45 RPM stereo pressing, and a Music Matters mono pressing.
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Hi guys, we do the photos the exact same way we did it for years at Music Matters. And for this more recent Blue Train, we were aiming to match the OG jacket cover in terms of tint, etc. Re tapes, we used the exact same tape, which was the OG master. (You can see photos of both stereo masters and mono masters in the Complete Masters booklet.) Re the dead wax and whether it says just KG or Ron or me, means nothing. Sometimes Kevin puts me in the dead wax and but most often it just says "KPG@CA" regardless of whoever else was there. I'm present and active in all the mastering. Thanks for the deep dive look into a great session!
Thanks for your comment Joe. Greatly appreciated
@Joe Harley LOVING this Blue Train, early Christmas for me, Mr. Harley. My thanks to you and Kevin Gray.
Hey Joe - thanks so much for your reply and for clearing those things up for us! There had been speculation on Hoffman about whether you were involved or not in the Blue Train from MM based on the deadwax info. Good to have the source put a rumor to rest! And thanks also for the clarification on the artwork. But mostly, thanks again so very much for the love and skill you put into these reissues!
Paul was a very pleasant guest, so well articulated and knowledgeable. I would love to see him again on your channel. You were so great together. 👏. Awesome, Ken
This is a FRIGGIN AMAZING episode! Thx!
Both of you are fabulous, keep on the good works.
Lot of quality information to digest there fellas, many thanks to both for imparting...🙂
Thank you for your service, gentlemen.
Great comparisons, thank you for sharing.
Wow! what a great episode! Knowledge delivered in an interesting fashion! Thanks guys. Love the proverbial "fly on the wall" view of the session!
Probably the best comparison of a new reissue title with the original title that I have ever seen!! Congratulations!! Keep up the great work!!
Ken this was an absolute pleasure not only to watch but to listen to. Both Paul and your comments were greatly appreciated. It brought myself insight on what to expect. Unfortunately I haven’t received my mono and stereo TP copies ( FedEx delivered my copies to the wrong address). Since my dad didn’t have much Coltrane in his collection , these two releases will be the first copies I will have. Miles was a different story. I have many of his OG pressing to compare to the newer reissues.
Great job, Gentlemen!! You touched upon the many nuances, human and mechanical, that determine what we hear from these recordings. I celebrate them all because at the end of the day they all have the potential to sounds great depending on the individual listening and the equipment upon which the records are played.
Great video!
~Vinyl Chef Steve
Great video, thank you.
Great video thank you
Love the shoot out guys great story and breakdown I picked up the new complete stereo it sounds great and kept the mono Music matters regular not the SRX I’ve been satisfied with that one I still want an OG mono prices are crazy Ken love your Thorens and Shindo combination the samples sound killer Ken . Paul Wells you have Awesome knowledge about the Blue notes recording studio I learned a lot take care guys. Lovellandrew
Great vid! Paul is a great drummer in his own right and dig the Nonet he plays with along with Patrick Bartley!
Nice video guys
I got the stereo Tone Poet, and it was good fun to hear how Rudy was changing microphone levels, eq, and even reverb on the fly!
Great video! Regarding the natural sounding drums of the early stereo pressing, I think that when you push the midrange a bit in the EQ, the cymbals will always sound more complete.
I have several including MM, third original and now TP.. Rons is sublime
Your guest's perspective is really interesting and I have to say that I was surprised that he found the Stereo TP version to be the best sounding. I only have the TP mono and stereo releases and I also thought the stereo version sounded better. The mono copy is fantastic, but the stereo version was just so perfectly balanced, it just drew me into the room with the band. I have many mono LPs and often prefer those, but BN just did a remarkable job with the stereo version. I hope if BN has the opportunity to release multiple versions of their reissues in the future, that they do.
I was living in Vancouver Canada and rang up MM and Joe Harley answered - i asked him some questions about his masterings and then he asked me what i liked and recommended a bunch of their 45's - which i of course bought - no regrets :)
I picked up both Tone Poet versions, still can’t decide which one I like better. I wonder if playing the Mono with a Mono cartridge would really change peoples opinion.
I yet to see anyone who has done that comparison. Nice work once again Ken. Thanks 😎
Right, different mastering decisions: EQ, level, compression/limiting, mastering gear. Monitor speakers/mastering room acoustics.
Great video, you really gave a review like it should be done! Just as an aside, Bernie Grundman cut both the Stereo and Mono for Classic back in the nineties. He used a mono head block for the mono.
I really enjoyed this discussion between Ken & Paul. I purchased both the mono & stereo TP records but I haven't listened to the stereo version yet. I'm been disappointed with some of the TP stereo pressings. Byrd In Flight comes to mind. I don't enjoy the hard panning on the TP pressing and much prefer the Classic Records mono version. Paul's insights into these different pressings adds to Ken's take on these recordings. I would like to hear more mono - stereo discussions. Thanks again.
I love the Nighthawks. I found out about them from listening to a Phi Schaap, broadcast when he did whole show on them back over 10 years ago. I miss Phil's shows!
Anyone hear Lee’s horn occasionally hit the mic with a slight pop/boom? On the mono.
The good news that that with BT, JH said that BN was re-thinking its original decision not to duplicate the MM titles. Good news to those who do not have the MM pressings, one whom I am one. My BN collection includes OGs, and pressings from the other incarnations of the label, a hodgepodge collection.
Kevin Gray said that he preferred the mono by a bit. He mentioned that there was a reverb that RVG used on the stereo that he didn't like.
Hey Ken can you post all your gear
Thanks for a great video as always
Thorens turntable Gelco arm ortofon SPU cartridge Shindo Amplifiers and devore Fidelity speakers
Somehow on the TPS Front to back soundstage is way compressed
Compared the Stereo Tone Poet to my Japanese 1978 Kings Pressing. Liked the Kings Pressings better, the top end on the Tone Poet is a little bit too aggressive for my taste. Maybe will try a Mono now. Good guest. Thanks!
I completely agree, although I think the TP stereo a little bit more air around the musicians. Would also be curious to try the mono. The king pressing is really solid.... I wonder if it sounds a little more like the original?
Yeah this was super cool. I also think the tone poet stereo is definitely tilted up, And I feel that way about some of the tone poets but this one for sure along with all of the great things about it. I also have a Japanese king pressing from the late '70s and that sounds much richer, Fuller and warmer and I enjoy the naturalness of that one. I wonder if you think that it's worth having both the stereo and mono of the tone poet? Especially thinking that the mono could be more natural sounding?
I haven't listened to my stereo TP yet, but the mono sounds pretty good on my system in my room. I share your feeling about other TPs. Having said that, my general impression of most of my Japanese pressings is that they lean a bit mellower or softer, particularly when compared to the TPs.
If you can afford it I would definitely get them both because they are extremely different presentations beyond simply stereo to mono. I overall prefer the mono because it was more coherent Tonally top to bottom but the stereo obviously has a lot more detail
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 thanks for the reply. I think I'm definitely going to add the mono. The stereo is great but it seems a little tilted and a little almost hyper detailed. I like the word you used. Coherence, that's really important.
Very good review, thank you both!
Which Shindos do you use?
Allegro and Haut Brion
Ken, I am curious if you or Paul listened to the mono's with a mono cartridge? I always sense a better sonic presentation when I use my mono cartridge with mono records.
no but I should
Do you have a mono cart ken? If so which one??
Can you provideMore info on the amps you’re talking about
Shindo Haut Brion 22wpc
Looks like other ADVER. for Blue Note Records
Let’s see, we covered records from music matters, analog productions, and blue note. And many people are very excited about this blue train re-issue. Why don’t you go back to troll Land and crawl into your troll cage and eat your troll gruel.
I prefer the EQ used by Rudy
PREFER IT to what?
To what Kevin Grey is doing
Ron not "Rob" Rambach
No one said Rob. Clean out your ears pal
I'm sorry but I totally disagree about most of it's been told on here ! I have 10 different versions of this one, 5 stereo, 5 mono, stereo and mono first pressings among them, bought by my Dad in those days, in perfect conditions. I listened to all of them for 6 hours. My ears and feeling are totally different about what's been said on this video. It's very interesting to hear how we totally can be different in terms of listening and feeling the music.
So you disagreed. But you don’t say how you feel differently? You disagree but you don’t say which one you think is the best or better?Say something besides hot air.
Folks that have the OGs feel threatened by good-sounding reissues. Pretty consistent.
Its ridiculous and a travesty there is not a national/nationally funded jazz museum in DC or NYC. One exhibit that would have to be included would be a recreation of the Hackensack living room. Can we not mobilize the community to make this happen??? Performance space/book and record store included please....
Shaumberg Center in Harlem jazz museum
Jazz is Americas greatest living cultural achievement and deserves way more. Some folks with connections should get moving while some of the icons are still alive....a cultural center/ museum/performance center at the level of Lincoln center. There is more widespread interest in jazz now than ever i imagine.
This music must sound magical on your system. I would not call it a shoot out. I hate guns and violence.
I think when the average viewer interested in jazz vinyl pressings sees the word shoot out they automatically think of comparisons not Wyatt Earp