I have a fair collection of Rudy van Gelder recordings, Blue Note Tone poet and others and yes they are not all equal. You are spot on and this explain a lot. Thanks!
Thanks Ken - That was a just great video that I would recommend to anyone looking to collect records of any genre. When I get the time to watch your videos it is always a treat. As a Jazz lover with no musical background who lives on the far side of the world (Australia) I really appreciate you taking the time to share your personal insights.
Tone & Texture. It took me a long time to figure that one out and I own lots of guitars and guitar amps where it’s all about t&t, but when it came to hifi, I was chasing detail. It’s definitely nice to hear detail, but in the end, tone & texture win out for me. You know it when you hear it; you’re suddenly just listening (maybe even dancing in your seat) & not analyzing. Great videos!
You make great point. I’m interested in hi-fi and I think manufacturers are chasing a detailed sound at the expense of tone and texture, particularly with speakers.
@@vinylrulesok8470 it doesnt mean anything... the tone and texture shouldnt be induced at the medium point... but in studio with proper equipement while recording.. The point of the recording medium is to translate that without tinting it. And at that cd or digital is perfect. A vinyl distort the sound.. color it often negativly compare to master.. and the fact its mechanical mean its suffer from other artefact. The people that think its superior dont know shit. It isnt on all grounds.
Absolutely love your videos Ken. Short, precise and super informative! Keep doing just as you do- we will all learn from you. Thanks for what you are doing for our Jazz World. YOU are the man here, no doubt!
Really enjoy your videos. Passion for, and knowledge of Jazz are your trademarks. It's good to hear from someone who has a detailed knowledge of Jazz, its place in society and how the original sessions were recorded and sound. I'm new to Jazz and am learning a lot from your posts. Keep them coming. PS the post of your interview with Joe Harley was fabulous, a real gentleman who has taken Jazz to a new level of recognition.
I second everything Brian ^^ has said - and want to add that in addition to your top notch content that has always given great insights into so many aspects of jazz, from the music, individual performances, history to mastering, pressings etc etc, I appreciate all your recent efforts to up the production value of your videos and maybe also finding a slightly "softer" tone in your delivery. Clearly it takes a lot of endurance & determination to survive in NYC as a jazz musician and that in itself deserves applause. I have a couple musician friends (who eventually left NY and went back to Germany), and one them told me this joke: "Q: How do you make a million dollars as a jazz musician? ... A: You start with two." Thank you for all the great videos and I hope to catch you sometime at the Jazz Record Center that I recently visited for the first time! NK
You make a great point, I think there’s definitely an approach to a more detailed sound with modern audiophile reissues but I think that is partly driven by the resolving nature of modern equipment and modern tastes. I don’t have any original Blue Notes and I’m unlikely to find any since I live in a rural area so the Blu Note Tone Poets and Classic reissues definitely serve a purpose for me, but I do find that audiophile reissues of classic rock records are often missing qualities that the originals had, less dynamism and listenability for instance. Great video
Another great video Ken👍🏻I was commenting on another video about this very topic. There are many great qualities about audiophile reissues at times. But, for example, I may prefer that Wally mastered original Boston S/T to the Friday Music that Kevin did that folks rave about. One is very good with all the smoothness and nice bass and one is great due to the fact it has an immediacy that only that particular Wally mastered lp has. Guitars are more clear, things just sound like that tape was fresher. Also the equipment used and room sound back then cant really be duplicated to get that sound. Same can be said I am sure about Blue Notes. I do think there is also the element of familiarity. We are use to a certain sound many times. My one big complaint with audiophile lps is many times they are very analytical and etched sounding. The clarity almost takes away the magic. But I totally agree. It is a case by case basis what is prefered concerning originals vs audiophile pressings. Screw it, I think we just need to have a party at your place and listen to those originals! ✌🏻😎
Well said, to often I hear that an audiophile pressing is “the best”, I usually respond by asking, what did you compare it against. The response is silence.
I agree 100%, you have a way of nailing what I’m hearing Ken. I find too much detail leads to listening fatigue, It’s a fine line to walk. All the best 😎
I think maybe take a step back and think about the way vinyl listening & collecting has been changing in recent years. In turn, think about your channel's audience. In years past I can understand preaching these finite differences in mastering to an audience that was much like yourself. They likely had a ton of time and money invested into the hobby of jazz vinyl. But come on man! The average person does not live where you live, do what you do, or has seen what you've seen. I appreciate your channel immensely for you knowledge of jazz history. And I appreciate knowing and being made aware that these differences exist in original vs. modern pressings. But the bottom line is that most people are perfectly happy purchasing an amazing sounding modern pressing (whether it's better/different than original or not) and calling it a day. We all have a myriad of responsibilities, families, interests, passions, hobbies that split our time and money. Is it fair to ask if what the artist was trying to express is beautifully conveyed in the modern pressings? Yes? All good over here. Maybe we can spend a little more time celebrating the fact that the availability of gorgeous, artistic releases are so easily available to the average person. I'd wager that the original artists would be pleased that their music can be so fully realized in a more average home rather than on a six figure system. It seems like there's endless discussion surrounding the people who recorded and mastered these releases (across many channels) and very little regarding these brilliant artists who created the music. It seems a bit off to me but what do I know? Not much really :) Thanks very much for your channel. I subscribe and watch every single video.
Great discussion. I received new clear vinyl 180g pressing of Miles Davis “Kind of Blue”. It’s warped. It’s supper warped. Sending disc is minor warped. But warped none the less. New pressing are not always “better”. But sound quality is mind blowing.
Great points well made Ken. The only piece of my listening kit that can’t really be upgraded is my ears. And as you say it’s all about what you like to hear. Your passion for jazz shines through so well. Thank you for such a balanced view
Audiophile pressings? I think what we should really say is mastering for modern turntables… because that’s basically the only difference (added low bass) is the vinyl pressing process or material better than the past ? The gear is largely similar in nature. The most “audiophile pressings are done one at a time an even more antiquated process. Talking Kevin’s process, or ERC handmade their own gear which is mostly recreations of classic pieces. The recordings are surly audiophile. I see the primary advantage for “audiophile reissues” is that they are done basically like they were done originally but of course they are brand new and have a slightly expanded frequency range that some might prefer and some might not, that’s subjective. Great video Ken.
Well yes but when comparing the pressings the bass has been added back. When talking what the mastering engineer has done yes he has in fact added the bass back that was removed by RVG…
@@BOBBRADLEYCHANNEL What? No. The bass was always on the tape, Rudy hid it on his cuts and added some more mids instead. Kevin did not add any bass boosting, he almost cut the tape straight with 0 adjustments. You can get a nearly unplayed original Blue Note and even then it wont play quiet unless youre extremely lucky, especially Stereos.
I couldn‘t have said it better myself! As an owner of jazz and Beatles’ orignal- and audiophile pressings, I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion! I was lucky enough to acquire many original pressings through the years ( including many from Jazz Record Center), so I can only say that your video exactly describes the way I feel about this issue! I enjoy listening to both originals and audiophile pressings, but for me, there is nothing that defines „Blue Note“ sound more than an original mono pressing played on a tube system!
I just bought a ALBUM "Montovani's Golden Hits 1967 Stereo PS-483" It even says "Play this record only on Stereophonic Equipment" INCREDIBLE SOUND STAGE
Ken, great discussion. Your expertise shines a light on the topic. People need to ask themselves what do they want to hear when listening to their recordings.
Thanks for bringing that point up Steve because it’s often forgotten. A big reason that digital took off was the lack of record surface noise, ticks,pops and vinyl bumps from warping.
A good record cleaner will sure help with those pop and clicks. No better feeling when after a good wash on a used record you just bought that 80% of the noise is gone. Clearly some 50 year old vinyl has never been cleaned.
I’m convinced that, for some unknown reason, Ken is the only person on Earth that doesn’t like Michael at 45 RPM Audiophile. How you can dislike that cat is beyond me… dude just loves his music and appreciates quality reissues. Seems like the nicest guy and someone I’d want to hang with. It may be hard to believe, but some people actually might *gasp* prefer the sound, availability and price of reissues! It’s a subjective medium, c’mon man Love your content though, and appreciate your insights. Much love ❤️
His video quality blows my mind. I wish I knew what camera he was using. I have emailed him but he will not write me back! But He can be the nicest man in the world, but when he makes generalizations that are not true someone needs to call him out on it. What good as being a sweetheart and a Mench if what you’re saying is wrong? And he does this on more than one occasion. It’s not intentional, he doesn’t know any better. But I would never make a generalization particular about something I don’t know anything about. He said himself, if he wants to learn something he reads Wikipedia. Wikipedia is fine, but it is no substitute for 30 years of listening and collecting and reviewing hi-fi gear. I’m not the only one who thinks this I’m not the only one with a video channel apparently
I get it Clay, and I said I understand why people prefer new reissues, and who can find OGs? but my point was you can't say they are all uniformly better as a generalization. Just as many prefer early pressings. And when you compare they all sound different to the reissues.
I feel like with these type of subjects, if people have to research and watch videos to determine/confirm their opinions then it doesn't matter if they can't tell with their ears. Each are different - different is different and its really up to the listener what they enjoy the most.
Thank you for your valuable perspective on this subject Ken. I’ve been buying original/early Jimmy Smith Blue Note pressings as they still seem to be reasonably priced. I prefer the original mono Back at The Chicken Shack to the recent Classic stereo release - it’s livelier and has more drive and kick. Each pressing has its own merits though.
You probably hit the nail on the head. The original tube systems in the 50's and 60's were great in the chain in the studio...i personally prefer the original if i can afford it.
Great insight Ken. Even pressing is different and it really depends on how the quality of the master tapes are. But what we're always cut from the original master tapes were original and early pressings
Excellent topic and video Ken. I appreciate your common sense assessment of original vs. reissue pressings. I have a a few original Blue Notes and they do have the something special to them. Look forward to your future videos here.
Tone, texture, weight, and sense of space or holographic imaging are far more impactful to my listening priorities as well. While I don’t like to sacrifice too much detail I do find ultra-resolution sometimes rather fatiguing and unnatural. Appreciate when you share your musical priorities. Nicely done!
Ken, I fully agree with you even for the Van Gelder UA pressings ! What I dislike from the Audiophile reissues is the remastering that is done. As a friend told me once ; "The better is the enemy of the good". If a record is considered as a classic after so many years of listening, please, don't change anything. Don't try to do better. Try to use the same kind of equipment (if possible) and give to these recordinds all the respect that they deserve. If someone think he can do better than from those classics than stop spending your time on making reissues and open your own studio recording. I think that remastering is one of the worst thing that one can do. I might be wrong but I think that the Plastilite pressings have something important to do with the sound we like. The Plastilite pressings records are stiffer than those of a later period. I think it might be an explanation for the better dynamism and for the feeling of being in the studio with the musicians. The rigidity of the media might lowered the distorsion and give all the information on the media by transfering everything directly from the media to ones hears. I could comment more but "The better is the enemy of the good" Thank you for doing what you do. Please, continue your great work and enjoy the music !
The new reissues I’ve noticed have a lot more distortion and sibilance compared to the originals or the CD versions. I’ve always wondered why this is. Are the tapes worn out? Did RVG do something to control it in the final masters? Are they doing something wrong with the newer versions? I’m so curious to know. In a lot of the other ways you described the newer versions are great: detail, noise floor, balance, separation.
Excellent video! You're so right, every LP should be judged on a case by case basis--not to mention that each listener has a unique set of ears, and wants different things from their listening experience. More often than not, I go original, and are wary of "audiophile" releases unless they are for titles impossibly out of reach.
For modern playback gear, extracting what's actually on the tape seems optimal to me, at least in principle... But your mileage may vary on a per-record basis, so the right answer is: It depends!
Been lucky enough to hear many original BN pressings compared to music matters, classic and tone poet etc. I agree with every word, I have plenty of the newer re issues which are great. But a completely different animal to the original BN. All depends on sound system and personally preference, originals have a much more of a live feel, punch and dynamics. But i think you nailed it with Organic.
Great insights Ken. Some parallels with the sound of audio gear, as you briefly suggest. Reviewers often tout how a speaker enables you to hear individual instruments, or even individual singers in a chorus. But I am unable to do this at a live performance so why would I want that from my speakers? As you say it is the holistic experience that matters.
Thank you Ken, great video as always. I thought this video might be coming after seeing another RUclipsrs video pop up with the same title. Admittedly I watched it because I was curious to hear what they were saying. I may be new to Jazz and I don't own any OG Blue Notes but I know you can't make blanket statements on comparisons between the two if you don't own both pressings to compare. It has to be on a case by case business. I've been buying some of your Tone Poet recommendations and I've bought up all the Classic Series cos they are £20 a pop they are great value. They sound great but can I say they sound better than an early pressing? No cos I don't own any to compare them with. I thought your video was great, you put your opinion across and it's one I agree with and didn't lose your s##t!. Keep up the good work mate, I love what you do.
Great video and perspective Ken! The technical differences are there, many times very clear in most cases. However, the way these recordings can sound (in a more subjective basis) is quite different. So I think that even the words “better”, “superior”, “best” or whatever may not be ideal. Simply different. Same picture with a different lens aperture or a film ISO
Lastly, I'd like to bring a point. Hearing and vision are senses highly tuned for great performance. However, they are senses that rely on for their most part in brain post-processing than pure signal transduction. So, that is why perception to sound is quite subjective and individual. Given that two people have the exact same hearing systems, their brains are ultimately dictating what any sound stimulus should sound for them
Thanks for the talk in this. I’m of course new to collecting jazz vinyls. I’m obsessing about joe Henderson lately. Any idea if milestones will ever repress? I’m trying to figure out if I should seek out an early pressing of Henderson’s Tetragon or not.
Sound is and will always be subjective. If you grew up in a time where originals were widely available and that is the sound you were used to for each album then of course they might sound better to you. Emotions and music are a powerful combination. Is the opinion valid that originals sound better? Absolutely!. Is the opinion valid that reissues sound better? Absolutely! Everybody is entitled to their own opinion when it comes to music and they are all valid. Where it becomes a little tricky for me is when we start evangelizing that our opinion is the only valid opinion. That simply is not true. Love your insight into Jazz Ken and I also like Michael and value his expertise. It is a win win situation.
But I don’t say one is better than the other. I say it is a case by case basis. You’ll never hear me make a gross generalization when it comes to audio and records. 50 year old tapes have lost their high-end. And there is noise reduction applied in the new remastering process. We’re talking big changes in the sound.
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Unless we can all sit in a room and listen to the respective master tape we don't know how much alteration RVG did or how much alteration Kevin and Joe did. I tend to view them as honest and if they say that what they are trying to do is get us closer to the sound of the master tape I tend to believe them, As stated before everybody still has the freedom to listen to all versions of an album and pick their favorite one. I do believe that there is a need for the AAA reissues and am very thankful of the work Joe and Kevin and Chad and others are doing to give us an opportunity to get high quality reissues and to give us a glimpse into the master tape sound.
Sometime yes, sometime no; it's depend of who does these records and those who want only to cash-in. But anyway sometime all you can afford is the reissue.
And my education continues. Really enjoyed this episode Ken. Tone Poet and Classic make up most of my growing Blue Note collection they sound wonderful. I am very partial also to the only original pressings I have , Finger Poppin and Night in Tunisia.
The answer is yes. Then again maybe its because I dont have retro playback gear like Ken’s with tubes, horns and Garrards. The people who are bigging up originals are vested and trying to prop up resale value of their collection.
The short answer to the thumbnail is YES. The reissues are actually closer to the Master tapes than the originals for starters. Secondly, Blue Note needed to revive the brand because no company wants to be associated with overpriced, crappy sounding 60 year old noisy records. Basically, collecting original Blue Notes was like collecting "artifacts". Today you can get a mint copy of Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue cut by Kevin Gray from the original analog masters for about $25 U.S. That's a no brainer for sure! 💯
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Ken why you gotta come in so hot brother!? That other channel is great. Your channel is great. We just like good music man it ain’t that serious!
@@cheynemcnab6540 it was a bit of a curt reply. But in fairness to Ken, the original comment did indicate that absolutely no attention was paid to the information he provided in the vid. Audiophile reissues and OGs are different. There are so many variables involved with the production of each that on occasions one is better sounding than the other. I’m happy for all the jazz reissues of late as I listen to mostly 60’s 70’s psych prog where it is much more clear cut…and you can easily spend a months salary picking up a ‘grail’ 🙄 OGs by and large rule over audiophile reissues. The AP Doors reissues are a rare example of an exception.
Very cool stuff, I only wish I could afford to acquire a couple of original pressings. They are mostly out of my range financially but maybe one day I’ll get lucky and find one or two somewhere?.. thanks for you’re videos, they are awesome 🙏
Nice passionate and knowledgeable presentation! : ) You are quite right, and if you have been talking to people who work with Kevin Gray, you certainly know what you are talking about (almost can't go wrong with either Kevin Gray, especially with his upgraded studio, or Chris Bellman in my experience) Like I posted in your other video, I have early Liberty pressings, one I believe of the shirt you are wearing : ) Great album, BTW! Love his style of playing (although Eddie harris is my all time favourite sax player) And, as I mentioned in my other post, I have a recent Analog Productions 2-45 LP pressing of Herbie Hancock's Headhunters, which is awesome! I don't have an original, but I believe I have a fairly early pressing, and the AP really is done well. Also, FWIW, and I normally don't care for Mono too much, but the recent UK 1/2 speed mastered pressing of Disraeli Gears by Miles Showell I think at Abbey Road is bloody amazing! Normally, like I said, I usually prefer stereo, especially in the Psychedelic area (I mean, who wants to hear Hendrix with all that lovely spatial stuff going on in Mono for God's sake, no matter how well it's done, I mean really...) but this MASTER is so much better than even the better stereo pressings, it is the one Mono pressing that I have that is quite a bit better than the stereo master. Of course I have a TON of Miles Davis (my very favourite!) Some very early pressings, many original MFSL pressings (which honestly do sound amazing) and some later pressings. DAMN good stuff! Hey, keep up the excellent work mate, and keep that vinyl coming! :D
Finally someone who is honest about this topic. I recently compared Joni Mitchell's 4 album re-issues vs. my originals. I preferred the remixed, remastered new version of Song to a Seagull but on the other remastered versions it was case by case.👍
Each record is a different story... I for one can't afford original pressings, so these audiophiles reissues are all I have to keep me happy, so I mainly focus on music! Simple. Enjoy what you can get your hands and ears on! Peace y'all#
In my experience the original pressings are the way to go. But some are hard to get and expensive. If you want hi res sound just stream it. But as you said, the music is not about the highest amount of bass or detail.
What's on an original pressing might be on better quality vinyl than was the case from about 1970 onward, and might be closer to the master tape in point of time, but not necessarily closer in sound. The PATHETIC cartridges of the average "record player" of 55-65 years ago simply could not cope with certain frequencies - which would make the cartridge "jump the grooves," resulting in costly product returns. Record companies HAD to make a saleable, mass market product which could be played on the units of that time. (This was largely why RCA replaced Living Stereo with Dynagroove.)
I expected this "response" video was forthcoming. I believe you gave a reasoned (and correct) interpretation of this subjective query. The most accurate stance to take is that, *ceteris paribus* , originals and "audiophile" RM's are different, and it is, indeed, a case by case experiment. There is truth in your insight into the tone and resolution between the two, however. Tone Poets seem to me (especially the horns) to have a somewhat unrealistic resolution to them, compared to the "flatter" sounds of old pressings, which retain what you rightly refer to as "flesh and blood" playing. Kevin Gray's horns seem to be "round" to me; like they are cut out in space -- does that make any sense? Anyway, love talking/listening to you, Ken. Keep up the good work.
i had to look this up ce·te·ris pa·ri·bus /ˌkād(ə)rəs ˈperəbəs/ Learn to pronounce adverbFORMAL with other conditions remaining the same. "shorter hours of labor will, ceteris paribus, reduce the volume of output". thank you. Round. Yes.
Slightly delayed but I've just dug out and played my early ('57-9) mono repress of Blue Train. Warmth, dynamics and staging are all there in a way that much as I love my many Blue Note audiophile albums this is something different. I do look forward to the mooted new special pressing of Blue Train but there's this early pressing is an absolute joy.
I think you hit it right on the $. In my very limited experience with early pressings they're different, not necessarily "better" across the board. Strengths & weaknesses on both sides. That being said they represent one heck of a lot better value for most people's wallet, mine incl which is why I've bought about 80 of the 3 BN series so far.
Quick answer: no. The originals are a journey back time that sadly cannot be recovered. The freshness of the tapes at the time of period cutting is a deciding factor.
It’s all a case by case thing. In my case I prefer Kevin Gray waxes because my ears love how the high freqs come through his equipment. Its gotta be the head of his tape deck? I don’t know but I agree that one isn’t better than the other. RVG’s approach was kind of artistic, because of the limitations of the era whereas the newer cuts try to get as much definition as possible from the mastering source
I guess you'll not be buying the new over hyped AS Kind of Blue...? Me neither...I had ordered and after hearing some one go on and on congratulating himself I CANCELLED my order! Noooooo regrets. You make a strong case..
Ken awesome take on audiophile vs original they definitely are completely different I collect both it so fun comparing the different pressing a lot of the originals have that warmness that new reissues don’t compare Rudy’s touch is the benchmark to the mastering engineer to come after they definitely study Rudy’s technique it was massive . My take I have Sam Rivers Contours original Stereo I compared it to the Tone poet I perfered the original it had this Fidelity that was awesome Ken have a great day. Lovellandrew
All of my Blue Note’s are reissues and I love them. I don’t know that I have ever heard an original which is just as well because I don’t want to pay that much money for a record. Also, I have the first two volumes of Blue Note Review including an extra copy of volume one still in the shipping box. I hope these continue but it looks like this series may be done?
Most prefer tube over SS amps, once they've heard both. It's a soul, natural, musical thing, not about measurements, slide rules and those who listen to hi fi with a computer and meter. When someone listens with measurements as their guide, not their ears, run like hell.
As a newer audiophile, I do love the reviews from older audiophiles letting us know which pressings have the best sound to them, especially when it's not the ones you'd suspect. However, I encourage other newer audiophiles to be deeply skeptical of reviewers who buy the most expensive gear they can to get the greatest quality sound out of a record, then say of a newly mastered AAA 45rpm audiophile pressing "well, I just prefer the sound of the original." In such cases, it's more likely that nostalgia takes precedent over quality, and yeah, people should know and be wary of that stodgy blind spot.
not sure you're addressing me. As stated in the video, on a comparison, I like new reissues sometime, other times, the original. I generally prefer originals, but I have a crazy $$$ hi fi, AND I recognize as someone who reviews records for 4 publications, that today's reissues are cut for the average, modern turntable, which will play a wider range of frequencies than old mass market turntables. On the surface newer reissues all sound fantastic, but they also all sounds alike. But then you're getting into small differences that perhaps can only be heard on the best tables. Most importantly, old OGs are impossible to find!
I really appreciate this take and made a similar comment on the 45rpm audiophile video of the same subject. At some point implicit bias has to come in to play. The gate keepers of all this knowledge have spent decades building six figure systems specifically to mine the perfect sound from original pressings. The investment of all that time and money simply has to affect preference. And yes, of course, my uneducated ear and by comparison, meager system is going to factor into my preferences. I just wish there was more discussion and focus about what a great opportunity these series are for the newbs. We have a beautiful, approachable, available, affordable option to a title that was previously intimidating. Isn't that exactly what Blue Note has intended with these reissues?
@@edvandeventer Harley is doing now what Rudy did than, and as I noted, he 's cutting albums for today's systems. But that's not my point and not my question. When anyone says hands down, generalization as a fact that new pressings are better than the originals, it's nonsense. I've heard both for years, sure there' s preference but there's no one size fits all. As noted in my video, did you watch it? It's a case by case, record by record thing. I would never make a blanket statement like that .
I love original pressings but would have very few records if I had to pay $200 or $300 an album. $50 is high but I will live with that for Tone Poet or similar. Life is about making executive decisions and moving on.
This is something that I think everyone needs to discover on their own and make up their own mind about, then decide how they will go about acquiring vinyl. For me, I don't want to deal with spending hundreds of dollars on original pressings, even if in some cases they may beat the newer remasters. I also find collectors of those original recordings to come off as arrogant sometimes - perhaps angry that newer collectors don't have to play their game and fork over a fortune for some nicked up original?
Rewatching it, and thinking about the midnight blue comment. Have you compared the classics series to a mmj srx if you have it? Just curious how two audiophiles would compare to each other
I'm gonna write something. Tone Poet series is better then Classics. So I think pressing matters. Don't know if both of the series are better couse I don't have any of the originals and dont intend to have them. Why, prices and shipping is to die for. Happy with both couse I intend to enjoy with them and not to wonder what is best.
The situation varies in my experience and it is not just original v recent, so called audiophile, issues. Just two examples; I have 'Soul Station' and 'State of the Tenor' (Henderson) French issues from the 1980s where the earlier issues are superior, to my ears, to the more recent Classics /Tone Poet ones. On the other hand there are others where the more recent issues, eg 'Go' and 'Song for My Father', are superior to earlier issues which I have. Whether the difference arises from Grey, Harley or Van Gelder or the pressings my non-technical ears cannot tell. I just rely on my 'listening to jazz for 55 years' ears. Blue Note is, of course, not the only jazz label and Van Gelder is not the only jazz record engineer. For the more broad-minded out there, I can recommend the following from the British Gearbox/Decca re-issues ; ' Windmill Tilter' by Kenny Wheeler with the John Dankworth Orchestra on Fontana and 'Dejeuner Sur L'herbe' by The New Jazz Orchestra on Verve. The pressings are immaculate and leave great hope for further issues to come. Among the personnel, listeners will find Dave Holland, John McLaughlin, Michael Gibbs, Ian Carr and Jack Bruce as well as the principals already mentioned. I have no commercial interest in these recordings. I just picked them up at my favourite record store last week and they brought me back 50 years in an instant. As for me, I listen to jazz of all eras. To my ears there is nothing more relaxing than the sizzle of a good 78! William
It is all down the the source media and the quality of the original recordings the mixing and what if any mastering has been done on top cos that is your starting point. If your source is pre mastering you stand a chance, if it has been mastered and butchered you stand little chance. Owning studio gear I know what can be done today that was either impossible or just plain a pain in the past, computer software if used properly can be very powerful and its still improving year on year. So if you have a master of an original recording either tape or a digital copy that has little to no mastering, if you have the software and know how to use it properly you stand a good chance, its your skills against those who attempted it in the past with lesser tools. Bernie Grundman one of the most well known record producers said that digital was never superior but it did make his life a lot easier. One thing that has certainly improved is the vinyl pressing process that is now computer controlled so less chance of it screwing up
I’m surprised that even some represses sound better than originals it hasn’t been my experience but that’s very interesting I’m not familiar with many of the new re-issues
If you're not familiar with the new represses, which are you referring to? Most everyone loves the rich, lush, up front sound of new reissues from audiophile labels. They often lack room or studio ambience, the sense of musicians in a space being recorded. it's as if the studio doesn't exist. Using noise suppression may result in loss of fine ambient detail. The new audiophile reissues sound like new records to me, not remasters of 50 year old recordings.
The new classic vinyl and tone poets are more distorted. A lot of the old RVG recordings had distortion because he recorded so hot, but the newer copies are unquestionably worse and pressed even hotter when it comes to distortion. For me, it really ruins the sound. Because original pressings are hundreds and hundreds of dollars now, and they are quite noisy, I just stream the albums. It’s not worth it anymore.
It’s all subjective! Of course I Can’t and haven’t compared Jazz og vs audiophiles , but what you say is true in my opinion with og and early copies of pop and rock music pressings 👍 Something more enjoyable listening to ogs, Plus I don’t like modern 180g and more heavier records like the lighter ones from the past!
I wonder if you can answer this question. There are reissues/versions of the same artists over and over again, however so many wonderful artists with great back catalogues are ignored. For example Shirley Bassey who has a rich back catalogue has not gotten the treatment deserved. Why is this so?
Seems to boil down to the record labels. Columbia has mined MIles Davis catalog to absurd points yet they reissue almost nothing from Duke Ellington's vast catalog. It's purely about what they can market to audiences who will buy what they are told to buy. "Build it and they will come"
I have a fair collection of Rudy van Gelder recordings, Blue Note Tone poet and others and yes they are not all equal. You are spot on and this explain a lot. Thanks!
Thanks Ken - That was a just great video that I would recommend to anyone looking to collect records of any genre. When I get the time to watch your videos it is always a treat. As a Jazz lover with no musical background who lives on the far side of the world (Australia) I really appreciate you taking the time to share your personal insights.
Tone & Texture. It took me a long time to figure that one out and I own lots of guitars and guitar amps where it’s all about t&t, but when it came to hifi, I was chasing detail. It’s definitely nice to hear detail, but in the end, tone & texture win out for me. You know it when you hear it; you’re suddenly just listening (maybe even dancing in your seat) & not analyzing. Great videos!
You make great point. I’m interested in hi-fi and I think manufacturers are chasing a detailed sound at the expense of tone and texture, particularly with speakers.
@@vinylrulesok8470 it doesnt mean anything... the tone and texture shouldnt be induced at the medium point... but in studio with proper equipement while recording..
The point of the recording medium is to translate that without tinting it.
And at that cd or digital is perfect.
A vinyl distort the sound.. color it often negativly compare to master.. and the fact its mechanical mean its suffer from other artefact.
The people that think its superior dont know shit.
It isnt on all grounds.
Absolutely love your videos Ken. Short, precise and super informative! Keep doing just as you do- we will all learn from you. Thanks for what you are doing for our Jazz World. YOU are the man here, no doubt!
Really enjoy your videos. Passion for, and knowledge of Jazz are your trademarks. It's good to hear from someone who has a detailed knowledge of Jazz, its place in society and how the original sessions were recorded and sound. I'm new to Jazz and am learning a lot from your posts. Keep them coming. PS the post of your interview with Joe Harley was fabulous, a real gentleman who has taken Jazz to a new level of recognition.
Joe is really something isn’t he? Such a humble man was so much experience and knowledge
I second everything Brian ^^ has said - and want to add that in addition to your top notch content that has always given great insights into so many aspects of jazz, from the music, individual performances, history to mastering, pressings etc etc, I appreciate all your recent efforts to up the production value of your videos and maybe also finding a slightly "softer" tone in your delivery. Clearly it takes a lot of endurance & determination to survive in NYC as a jazz musician and that in itself deserves applause. I have a couple musician friends (who eventually left NY and went back to Germany), and one them told me this joke: "Q: How do you make a million dollars as a jazz musician? ... A: You start with two." Thank you for all the great videos and I hope to catch you sometime at the Jazz Record Center that I recently visited for the first time! NK
You make a great point, I think there’s definitely an approach to a more detailed sound with modern audiophile reissues but I think that is partly driven by the resolving nature of modern equipment and modern tastes. I don’t have any original Blue Notes and I’m unlikely to find any since I live in a rural area so the Blu Note Tone Poets and Classic reissues definitely serve a purpose for me, but I do find that audiophile reissues of classic rock records are often missing qualities that the originals had, less dynamism and listenability for instance. Great video
Lol, I had to laugh how quickly that response hit the interweb! I trust you on that topic, Ken, even though I will likely never hear an original!
Another great video Ken👍🏻I was commenting on another video about this very topic.
There are many great qualities about audiophile reissues at times. But, for example, I may prefer that Wally mastered original Boston S/T to the Friday Music that Kevin did that folks rave about. One is very good with all the smoothness and nice bass and one is great due to the fact it has an immediacy that only that particular Wally mastered lp has. Guitars are more clear, things just sound like that tape was fresher. Also the equipment used and room sound back then cant really be duplicated to get that sound. Same can be said I am sure about Blue Notes.
I do think there is also the element of familiarity. We are use to a certain sound many times. My one big complaint with audiophile lps is many times they are very analytical and etched sounding. The clarity almost takes away the magic.
But I totally agree. It is a case by case basis what is prefered concerning originals vs audiophile pressings.
Screw it, I think we just need to have a party at your place and listen to those originals! ✌🏻😎
Well said….
Love the passion, Ken. Keep it coming!
Well said, to often I hear that an audiophile pressing is “the best”, I usually respond by asking, what did you compare it against. The response is silence.
And then other times the response is "an original". Right?
Interesting timing given a certain other RUclipsrs video on this this same topic !
A lot of people don't want to hear the originals are better. They'd much rather believe the audiophile reissues are as good or better.
There are no absolutes. Your ears tell you the truth. Great channel Ken. Keep it coming!!
I agree 100%, you have a way of nailing what I’m hearing Ken.
I find too much detail leads to listening fatigue, It’s a fine line to walk.
All the best 😎
I think maybe take a step back and think about the way vinyl listening & collecting has been changing in recent years. In turn, think about your channel's audience. In years past I can understand preaching these finite differences in mastering to an audience that was much like yourself. They likely had a ton of time and money invested into the hobby of jazz vinyl. But come on man! The average person does not live where you live, do what you do, or has seen what you've seen. I appreciate your channel immensely for you knowledge of jazz history. And I appreciate knowing and being made aware that these differences exist in original vs. modern pressings. But the bottom line is that most people are perfectly happy purchasing an amazing sounding modern pressing (whether it's better/different than original or not) and calling it a day. We all have a myriad of responsibilities, families, interests, passions, hobbies that split our time and money. Is it fair to ask if what the artist was trying to express is beautifully conveyed in the modern pressings? Yes? All good over here.
Maybe we can spend a little more time celebrating the fact that the availability of gorgeous, artistic releases are so easily available to the average person. I'd wager that the original artists would be pleased that their music can be so fully realized in a more average home rather than on a six figure system. It seems like there's endless discussion surrounding the people who recorded and mastered these releases (across many channels) and very little regarding these brilliant artists who created the music. It seems a bit off to me but what do I know? Not much really :) Thanks very much for your channel. I subscribe and watch every single video.
Great discussion. I received new clear vinyl 180g pressing of Miles Davis “Kind of Blue”. It’s warped. It’s supper warped. Sending disc is minor warped. But warped none the less. New pressing are not always “better”. But sound quality is mind blowing.
Great points well made Ken. The only piece of my listening kit that can’t really be upgraded is my ears. And as you say it’s all about what you like to hear. Your passion for jazz shines through so well. Thank you for such a balanced view
Audiophile pressings? I think what we should really say is mastering for modern turntables… because that’s basically the only difference (added low bass) is the vinyl pressing process or material better than the past ? The gear is largely similar in nature. The most “audiophile pressings are done one at a time an even more antiquated process. Talking Kevin’s process, or ERC handmade their own gear which is mostly recreations of classic pieces. The recordings are surly audiophile. I see the primary advantage for “audiophile reissues” is that they are done basically like they were done originally but of course they are brand new and have a slightly expanded frequency range that some might prefer and some might not, that’s subjective. Great video Ken.
Its not added bass, the RVGs removed bass. And yes the vinyl is much better.
Well yes but when comparing the pressings the bass has been added back. When talking what the mastering engineer has done yes he has in fact added the bass back that was removed by RVG…
RVG also added a mid bass bump which I assume they remove to some degree.
As far as the vinyl goes we’ll see how modern vinyl plays in 60 years 😏
@@BOBBRADLEYCHANNEL What? No. The bass was always on the tape, Rudy hid it on his cuts and added some more mids instead.
Kevin did not add any bass boosting, he almost cut the tape straight with 0 adjustments.
You can get a nearly unplayed original Blue Note and even then it wont play quiet unless youre extremely lucky, especially Stereos.
I couldn‘t have said it better myself! As an owner of jazz and Beatles’ orignal- and audiophile pressings, I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion! I was lucky enough to acquire many original pressings through the years ( including many from Jazz Record Center), so I can only say that your video exactly describes the way I feel about this issue! I enjoy listening to both originals and audiophile pressings, but for me, there is nothing that defines „Blue Note“ sound more than an original mono pressing played on a tube system!
I just bought a ALBUM "Montovani's Golden Hits 1967 Stereo PS-483" It even says "Play this record only on Stereophonic Equipment" INCREDIBLE SOUND STAGE
Ken, great discussion. Your expertise shines a light on the topic. People need to ask themselves what do they want to hear when listening to their recordings.
Good stuff! One other aspect, older press/vinyl isn’t as quiet as the best current pressings.
Well said! Very true
Thanks for bringing that point up Steve because it’s often forgotten. A big reason that digital took off was the lack of record surface noise, ticks,pops and vinyl bumps from warping.
Why is it that to my ear CTI recordings don’t sound as natural as so many of the labels that you’ve just been discussing?
A good record cleaner will sure help
with those pop and clicks. No better
feeling when after a good wash on a used record you just bought that 80% of the noise is gone. Clearly some 50 year old vinyl has never been cleaned.
@@1999zrx1100 you and I know that but most people are lazy and they go for the quickfix not thinking about the consequences.
Loving these rapid fire videos! Thank you!
I’m convinced that, for some unknown reason, Ken is the only person on Earth that doesn’t like Michael at 45 RPM Audiophile. How you can dislike that cat is beyond me… dude just loves his music and appreciates quality reissues. Seems like the nicest guy and someone I’d want to hang with. It may be hard to believe, but some people actually might *gasp* prefer the sound, availability and price of reissues! It’s a subjective medium, c’mon man
Love your content though, and appreciate your insights. Much love ❤️
No, he's far from the only person, judging by some comments in the earlier videos.
His video quality blows my mind. I wish I knew what camera he was using. I have emailed him but he will not write me back! But He can be the nicest man in the world, but when he makes generalizations that are not true someone needs to call him out on it. What good as being a sweetheart and a Mench if what you’re saying is wrong? And he does this on more than one occasion. It’s not intentional, he doesn’t know any better. But I would never make a generalization particular about something I don’t know anything about. He said himself, if he wants to learn something he reads Wikipedia. Wikipedia is fine, but it is no substitute for 30 years of listening and collecting and reviewing hi-fi gear. I’m not the only one who thinks this I’m not the only one with a video channel apparently
I get it Clay, and I said I understand why people prefer new reissues, and who can find OGs? but my point was you can't say they are all uniformly better as a generalization. Just as many prefer early pressings. And when you compare they all sound different to the reissues.
Totalmente de acuerdo Muchas Gracias por tan interesante platica. Inclusive si tienes aparatos comunes también aplica.
I feel like with these type of subjects, if people have to research and watch videos to determine/confirm their opinions then it doesn't matter if they can't tell with their ears. Each are different - different is different and its really up to the listener what they enjoy the most.
I love your Passion Man! You Love Music Dude. I'm with with you man.
Thank you for your valuable perspective on this subject Ken. I’ve been buying original/early Jimmy Smith Blue Note pressings as they still seem to be reasonably priced. I prefer the original mono Back at The Chicken Shack to the recent Classic stereo release - it’s livelier and has more drive and kick. Each pressing has its own merits though.
Don’t tell anybody about Jimmy Smith. You and I can buy them all!
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Haha - sounds like a plan!
Match the volume before comparing.
@@leon9021 You’re assuming that I didn’t? In this case, it’s more about mono vs. stereo. I prefer the mono mix.
Nice work Kenny, could be your best vid.
You probably hit the nail on the head. The original tube systems in the 50's and 60's were great in the chain in the studio...i personally prefer the original if i can afford it.
Great insight Ken. Even pressing is different and it really depends on how the quality of the master tapes are. But what we're always cut from the original master tapes were original and early pressings
A Christian! God bless
Man, your knowledge is vast...
Good question with no straight answer. You're right. They're definitely "different."
Excellent topic and video Ken. I appreciate your common sense assessment of original vs. reissue pressings. I have a a few original Blue Notes and they do have the something special to them. Look forward to your future videos here.
Tone, texture, weight, and sense of space or holographic imaging are far more impactful to my listening priorities as well. While I don’t like to sacrifice too much detail I do find ultra-resolution sometimes rather fatiguing and unnatural. Appreciate when you share your musical priorities. Nicely done!
Sometimes I like my old tube amps with the higher noise floor and what I call dirt in their sound rather than my modern tube amps that have no noise.
Ken, I fully agree with you even for the Van Gelder UA pressings ! What I dislike from the Audiophile reissues is the remastering that is done. As a friend told me once ; "The better is the enemy of the good". If a record is considered as a classic after so many years of listening, please, don't change anything. Don't try to do better. Try to use the same kind of equipment (if possible) and give to these recordinds all the respect that they deserve. If someone think he can do better than from those classics than stop spending your time on making reissues and open your own studio recording. I think that remastering is one of the worst thing that one can do. I might be wrong but I think that the Plastilite pressings have something important to do with the sound we like. The Plastilite pressings records are stiffer than those of a later period. I think it might be an explanation for the better dynamism and for the feeling of being in the studio with the musicians. The rigidity of the media might lowered the distorsion and give all the information on the media by transfering everything directly from the media to ones hears. I could comment more but "The better is the enemy of the good" Thank you for doing what you do. Please, continue your great work and enjoy the music !
thank you
The new reissues I’ve noticed have a lot more distortion and sibilance compared to the originals or the CD versions. I’ve always wondered why this is. Are the tapes worn out? Did RVG do something to control it in the final masters? Are they doing something wrong with the newer versions? I’m so curious to know. In a lot of the other ways you described the newer versions are great: detail, noise floor, balance, separation.
There’s something about owning an original that was pressed back in the day
It’s very special like a piece of art
Excellent video! You're so right, every LP should be judged on a case by case basis--not to mention that each listener has a unique set of ears, and wants different things from their listening experience. More often than not, I go original, and are wary of "audiophile" releases unless they are for titles impossibly out of reach.
Good video. Thanks for sharing some wisdom on this topic.
For modern playback gear, extracting what's actually on the tape seems optimal to me, at least in principle... But your mileage may vary on a per-record basis, so the right answer is: It depends!
Been lucky enough to hear many original BN pressings compared to music matters, classic and tone poet etc.
I agree with every word, I have plenty of the newer re issues which are great.
But a completely different animal to the original BN.
All depends on sound system and personally preference, originals have a much more of a live feel, punch and dynamics.
But i think you nailed it with Organic.
Thanks for such an honest evaluation 😊
Great insights Ken. Some parallels with the sound of audio gear, as you briefly suggest. Reviewers often tout how a speaker enables you to hear individual instruments, or even individual singers in a chorus. But I am unable to do this at a live performance so why would I want that from my speakers? As you say it is the holistic experience that matters.
That’s been my experience
I lean to the originals
thanks
Sometimes they EQ them wrong or different
It’s all good
Thank you Ken, great video as always. I thought this video might be coming after seeing another RUclipsrs video pop up with the same title. Admittedly I watched it because I was curious to hear what they were saying.
I may be new to Jazz and I don't own any OG Blue Notes but I know you can't make blanket statements on comparisons between the two if you don't own both pressings to compare. It has to be on a case by case business.
I've been buying some of your Tone Poet recommendations and I've bought up all the Classic Series cos they are £20 a pop they are great value. They sound great but can I say they sound better than an early pressing? No cos I don't own any to compare them with.
I thought your video was great, you put your opinion across and it's one I agree with and didn't lose your s##t!. Keep up the good work mate, I love what you do.
Great video and perspective Ken! The technical differences are there, many times very clear in most cases. However, the way these recordings can sound (in a more subjective basis) is quite different. So I think that even the words “better”, “superior”, “best” or whatever may not be ideal. Simply different. Same picture with a different lens aperture or a film ISO
Lastly, I'd like to bring a point. Hearing and vision are senses highly tuned for great performance. However, they are senses that rely on for their most part in brain post-processing than pure signal transduction. So, that is why perception to sound is quite subjective and individual. Given that two people have the exact same hearing systems, their brains are ultimately dictating what any sound stimulus should sound for them
Thanks for the talk in this. I’m of course new to collecting jazz vinyls. I’m obsessing about joe Henderson lately. Any idea if milestones will ever repress? I’m trying to figure out if I should seek out an early pressing of Henderson’s Tetragon or not.
An opinion ahead of its time 😂😂😂😂
The tone poets are generally speaking not great audiophile products, the music matters on the contrary are the best I ever heard by a pretty long way
the more I listen to your video, I agree with you.
Sound is and will always be subjective. If you grew up in a time where originals were widely available and that is the sound you were used to for each album then of course they might sound better to you. Emotions and music are a powerful combination. Is the opinion valid that originals sound better? Absolutely!. Is the opinion valid that reissues sound better? Absolutely! Everybody is entitled to their own opinion when it comes to music and they are all valid. Where it becomes a little tricky for me is when we start evangelizing that our opinion is the only valid opinion. That simply is not true. Love your insight into Jazz Ken and I also like Michael and value his expertise. It is a win win situation.
But I don’t say one is better than the other. I say it is a case by case basis. You’ll never hear me make a gross generalization when it comes to audio and records. 50 year old tapes have lost their high-end. And there is noise reduction applied in the new remastering process. We’re talking big changes in the sound.
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Unless we can all sit in a room and listen to the respective master tape we don't know how much alteration RVG did or how much alteration Kevin and Joe did. I tend to view them as honest and if they say that what they are trying to do is get us closer to the sound of the master tape I tend to believe them, As stated before everybody still has the freedom to listen to all versions of an album and pick their favorite one. I do believe that there is a need for the AAA reissues and am very thankful of the work Joe and Kevin and Chad and others are doing to give us an opportunity to get high quality reissues and to give us a glimpse into the master tape sound.
Sometime yes, sometime no; it's depend of who does these records and those who want only to cash-in. But anyway sometime all you can afford is the reissue.
And my education continues. Really enjoyed this episode Ken. Tone Poet and Classic make up most of my growing Blue Note collection they sound wonderful. I am very partial also to the only original pressings I have , Finger Poppin and Night in Tunisia.
Finger Poppin is a real classic. People sleep on Horace silver
The answer is yes.
Then again maybe its because I dont have retro playback gear like Ken’s with tubes, horns and Garrards.
The people who are bigging up originals are vested and trying to prop up resale value of their collection.
The short answer to the thumbnail is YES. The reissues are actually closer to the Master tapes than the originals for starters. Secondly, Blue Note needed to revive the brand because no company wants to be associated with overpriced, crappy sounding 60 year old noisy records.
Basically, collecting original Blue Notes was like collecting "artifacts". Today you can get a mint copy of Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue cut by Kevin Gray from the original analog masters for about $25 U.S. That's a no brainer for sure! 💯
You’ve heard nothing. You know nothing. Go back to the channel where ignorance and style is king
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Ken why you gotta come in so hot brother!? That other channel is great. Your channel is great. We just like good music man it ain’t that serious!
@@cheynemcnab6540 it was a bit of a curt reply. But in fairness to Ken, the original comment did indicate that absolutely no attention was paid to the information he provided in the vid. Audiophile reissues and OGs are different. There are so many variables involved with the production of each that on occasions one is better sounding than the other. I’m happy for all the jazz reissues of late as I listen to mostly 60’s 70’s psych prog where it is much more clear cut…and you can easily spend a months salary picking up a ‘grail’ 🙄 OGs by and large rule over audiophile reissues. The AP Doors reissues are a rare example of an exception.
Master tapes that are 60 years old? Doesn’t sound like “closer to the original tapes” to me.
@@snapcracklenpop821 the AP Doors reissues are beautifully done. I wish the same care and attention had been given to the Beatles reissues.
Very cool stuff, I only wish I could afford to acquire a couple of original pressings. They are mostly out of my range financially but maybe one day I’ll get lucky and find one or two somewhere?.. thanks for you’re videos, they are awesome 🙏
Nice passionate and knowledgeable presentation! : ) You are quite right, and if you have been talking to people who work with Kevin Gray, you certainly know what you are talking about (almost can't go wrong with either Kevin Gray, especially with his upgraded studio, or Chris Bellman in my experience)
Like I posted in your other video, I have early Liberty pressings, one I believe of the shirt you are wearing : ) Great album, BTW! Love his style of playing (although Eddie harris is my all time favourite sax player) And, as I mentioned in my other post, I have a recent Analog Productions 2-45 LP pressing of Herbie Hancock's Headhunters, which is awesome! I don't have an original, but I believe I have a fairly early pressing, and the AP really is done well. Also, FWIW, and I normally don't care for Mono too much, but the recent UK 1/2 speed mastered pressing of Disraeli Gears by Miles Showell I think at Abbey Road is bloody amazing! Normally, like I said, I usually prefer stereo, especially in the Psychedelic area (I mean, who wants to hear Hendrix with all that lovely spatial stuff going on in Mono for God's sake, no matter how well it's done, I mean really...) but this MASTER is so much better than even the better stereo pressings, it is the one Mono pressing that I have that is quite a bit better than the stereo master.
Of course I have a TON of Miles Davis (my very favourite!) Some very early pressings, many original MFSL pressings (which honestly do sound amazing) and some later pressings. DAMN good stuff!
Hey, keep up the excellent work mate, and keep that vinyl coming! :D
Great discussion, thank you Ken. And I do like depth of field in both records and videos :)
I;m trying! Gonna try a 50mm and push back!
Finally someone who is honest about this topic. I recently compared Joni Mitchell's 4 album re-issues vs. my originals. I preferred the remixed, remastered new version of Song to a Seagull but on the other remastered versions it was case by case.👍
Each record is a different story... I for one can't afford original pressings, so these audiophiles reissues are all I have to keep me happy, so I mainly focus on music! Simple. Enjoy what you can get your hands and ears on! Peace y'all#
That's it
I agree!!
In my experience the original pressings are the way to go. But some are hard to get and expensive. If you want hi res sound just stream it. But as you said, the music is not about the highest amount of bass or detail.
What's on an original pressing might be on better quality vinyl than was the case from about 1970 onward, and might be closer to the master tape in point of time, but not necessarily closer in sound. The PATHETIC cartridges of the average "record player" of 55-65 years ago simply could not cope with certain frequencies - which would make the cartridge "jump the grooves," resulting in costly product returns. Record companies HAD to make a saleable, mass market product which could be played on the units of that time. (This was largely why RCA replaced Living Stereo with Dynagroove.)
I expected this "response" video was forthcoming. I believe you gave a reasoned (and correct) interpretation of this subjective query. The most accurate stance to take is that, *ceteris paribus* , originals and "audiophile" RM's are different, and it is, indeed, a case by case experiment. There is truth in your insight into the tone and resolution between the two, however. Tone Poets seem to me (especially the horns) to have a somewhat unrealistic resolution to them, compared to the "flatter" sounds of old pressings, which retain what you rightly refer to as "flesh and blood" playing. Kevin Gray's horns seem to be "round" to me; like they are cut out in space -- does that make any sense? Anyway, love talking/listening to you, Ken. Keep up the good work.
i had to look this up
ce·te·ris pa·ri·bus
/ˌkād(ə)rəs ˈperəbəs/
Learn to pronounce
adverbFORMAL
with other conditions remaining the same.
"shorter hours of labor will, ceteris paribus, reduce the volume of output". thank you. Round. Yes.
Great post. You nailed it! 👏🌹🇦🇺✌️
Where can I get a T shirt like yours?
Uniqlo
Uniglo
Slightly delayed but I've just dug out and played my early ('57-9) mono repress of Blue Train. Warmth, dynamics and staging are all there in a way that much as I love my many Blue Note audiophile albums this is something different. I do look forward to the mooted new special pressing of Blue Train but there's this early pressing is an absolute joy.
I think you hit it right on the $. In my very limited experience with early pressings they're different, not necessarily "better" across the board. Strengths & weaknesses on both sides. That being said they represent one heck of a lot better value for most people's wallet, mine incl which is why I've bought about 80 of the 3 BN series so far.
Quick answer: no. The originals are a journey back time that sadly cannot be recovered. The freshness of the tapes at the time of period cutting is a deciding factor.
It’s all a case by case thing. In my case I prefer Kevin Gray waxes because my ears love how the high freqs come through his equipment. Its gotta be the head of his tape deck? I don’t know but I agree that one isn’t better than the other. RVG’s approach was kind of artistic, because of the limitations of the era whereas the newer cuts try to get as much definition as possible from the mastering source
I guess you'll not be buying the new over hyped AS Kind of Blue...? Me neither...I had ordered and after hearing some one go on and on congratulating himself I CANCELLED my order! Noooooo regrets. You make a strong case..
im not the biggest kob fan
Ken awesome take on audiophile vs original they definitely are completely different I collect both it so fun comparing the different pressing a lot of the originals have that warmness that new reissues don’t compare Rudy’s touch is the benchmark to the mastering engineer to come after they definitely study Rudy’s technique it was massive . My take I have Sam Rivers Contours original Stereo I compared it to the Tone poet I perfered the original it had this Fidelity that was awesome Ken have a great day. Lovellandrew
All of my Blue Note’s are reissues and I love them. I don’t know that I have ever heard an original which is just as well because I don’t want to pay that much money for a record. Also, I have the first two volumes of Blue Note Review including an extra copy of volume one still in the shipping box. I hope these continue but it looks like this series may be done?
Tubes = harmonic distortion. At low levels that's a good thing - it's where the 'warmth' is generated. 🙂
Most prefer tube over SS amps, once they've heard both. It's a soul, natural, musical thing, not about measurements, slide rules and those who listen to hi fi with a computer and meter. When someone listens with measurements as their guide, not their ears, run like hell.
@@kenmicallefjazzvinylaudiop6455 Nicely said, Ken. Loving your channel btw 🙂
The wax wizard speaks ! 🤩
As a newer audiophile, I do love the reviews from older audiophiles letting us know which pressings have the best sound to them, especially when it's not the ones you'd suspect. However, I encourage other newer audiophiles to be deeply skeptical of reviewers who buy the most expensive gear they can to get the greatest quality sound out of a record, then say of a newly mastered AAA 45rpm audiophile pressing "well, I just prefer the sound of the original." In such cases, it's more likely that nostalgia takes precedent over quality, and yeah, people should know and be wary of that stodgy blind spot.
not sure you're addressing me. As stated in the video, on a comparison, I like new reissues sometime, other times, the original. I generally prefer originals, but I have a crazy $$$ hi fi, AND I recognize as someone who reviews records for 4 publications, that today's reissues are cut for the average, modern turntable, which will play a wider range of frequencies than old mass market turntables. On the surface newer reissues all sound fantastic, but they also all sounds alike. But then you're getting into small differences that perhaps can only be heard on the best tables. Most importantly, old OGs are impossible to find!
I really appreciate this take and made a similar comment on the 45rpm audiophile video of the same subject. At some point implicit bias has to come in to play. The gate keepers of all this knowledge have spent decades building six figure systems specifically to mine the perfect sound from original pressings. The investment of all that time and money simply has to affect preference. And yes, of course, my uneducated ear and by comparison, meager system is going to factor into my preferences. I just wish there was more discussion and focus about what a great opportunity these series are for the newbs. We have a beautiful, approachable, available, affordable option to a title that was previously intimidating. Isn't that exactly what Blue Note has intended with these reissues?
@@edvandeventer Harley is doing now what Rudy did than, and as I noted, he 's cutting albums for today's systems. But that's not my point and not my question. When anyone says hands down, generalization as a fact that new pressings are better than the originals, it's nonsense. I've heard both for years, sure there' s preference but there's no one size fits all. As noted in my video, did you watch it? It's a case by case, record by record thing. I would never make a blanket statement like that
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Great Video As Always.
I love your videos Ken.
Thanks for your videos
I love original pressings but would have very few records if I had to pay $200 or $300 an album. $50 is high but I will live with that for Tone Poet or similar. Life is about making executive decisions and moving on.
i agree. We are living in a golden era of reissues. GOLDEN!!
This is something that I think everyone needs to discover on their own and make up their own mind about, then decide how they will go about acquiring vinyl. For me, I don't want to deal with spending hundreds of dollars on original pressings, even if in some cases they may beat the newer remasters. I also find collectors of those original recordings to come off as arrogant sometimes - perhaps angry that newer collectors don't have to play their game and fork over a fortune for some nicked up original?
Rewatching it, and thinking about the midnight blue comment. Have you compared the classics series to a mmj srx if you have it? Just curious how two audiophiles would compare to each other
I'm gonna write something. Tone Poet series is better then Classics. So I think pressing matters. Don't know if both of the series are better couse I don't have any of the originals and dont intend to have them. Why, prices and shipping is to die for. Happy with both couse I intend to enjoy with them and not to wonder what is best.
The situation varies in my experience and it is not just original v recent, so called audiophile, issues. Just two examples; I have 'Soul Station' and 'State of the Tenor' (Henderson) French issues from the 1980s where the earlier issues are superior, to my ears, to the more recent Classics /Tone Poet ones. On the other hand there are others where the more recent issues, eg 'Go' and 'Song for My Father', are superior to earlier issues which I have. Whether the difference arises from Grey, Harley or Van Gelder or the pressings my non-technical ears cannot tell. I just rely on my 'listening to jazz for 55 years' ears.
Blue Note is, of course, not the only jazz label and Van Gelder is not the only jazz record engineer. For the more broad-minded out there, I can recommend the following from the British Gearbox/Decca re-issues ; ' Windmill Tilter' by Kenny Wheeler with the John Dankworth Orchestra on Fontana and 'Dejeuner Sur L'herbe' by The New Jazz Orchestra on Verve. The pressings are immaculate and leave great hope for further issues to come. Among the personnel, listeners will find Dave Holland, John McLaughlin, Michael Gibbs, Ian Carr and Jack Bruce as well as the principals already mentioned. I have no commercial interest in these recordings. I just picked them up at my favourite record store last week and they brought me back 50 years in an instant.
As for me, I listen to jazz of all eras. To my ears there is nothing more relaxing than the sizzle of a good 78!
William
Exactly!
Hi, what about doing a Beatles episode ?
perfectly summarized!
ThxK 💎
It is all down the the source media and the quality of the original recordings the mixing and what if any mastering has been done on top cos that is your starting point. If your source is pre mastering you stand a chance, if it has been mastered and butchered you stand little chance. Owning studio gear I know what can be done today that was either impossible or just plain a pain in the past, computer software if used properly can be very powerful and its still improving year on year. So if you have a master of an original recording either tape or a digital copy that has little to no mastering, if you have the software and know how to use it properly you stand a good chance, its your skills against those who attempted it in the past with lesser tools. Bernie Grundman one of the most well known record producers said that digital was never superior but it did make his life a lot easier. One thing that has certainly improved is the vinyl pressing process that is now computer controlled so less chance of it screwing up
I’m surprised that even some represses sound better than originals
it hasn’t been my experience
but that’s very interesting
I’m not familiar with many of the new re-issues
If you're not familiar with the new represses, which are you referring to?
Most everyone loves the rich, lush, up front sound of new reissues from audiophile labels. They often lack room or studio ambience, the sense of musicians in a space being recorded. it's as if the studio doesn't exist. Using noise suppression may result in loss of fine ambient detail. The new audiophile reissues sound like new records to me, not remasters of 50 year old recordings.
Thanks Ken for your reply
Ken Micallef Jazz Vinyl Audiophile Studio ambience is everything to me
Awesome rant.....keep em coming
The new classic vinyl and tone poets are more distorted. A lot of the old RVG recordings had distortion because he recorded so hot, but the newer copies are unquestionably worse and pressed even hotter when it comes to distortion. For me, it really ruins the sound. Because original pressings are hundreds and hundreds of dollars now, and they are quite noisy, I just stream the albums. It’s not worth it anymore.
It’s all subjective! Of course I Can’t and haven’t compared Jazz og vs audiophiles , but what you say is true in my opinion with og and early copies of pop and rock music pressings 👍 Something more enjoyable listening to ogs, Plus I don’t like modern 180g and more heavier records like the lighter ones from the past!
These companies using "audiophile" on these new pressings is quite tiring.
Well done
Yes they are.
I like your shirt where did get that at?
a store called Uniglo. If not in your area try online www.uniqlo.com/us/en/ut-graphic-tees/blue-note
How do u keep your vinyls flat? By keeping them vertical?
Hand wired tube electronics running Apogee hybrid speakers. I’ll tell you what They had for lunch. Almost disconcerting what you can hear.
I wonder if you can answer this question. There are reissues/versions of the same artists over and over again, however so many wonderful artists with great back catalogues are ignored. For example Shirley Bassey who has a rich back catalogue has not gotten the treatment deserved. Why is this so?
Seems to boil down to the record labels. Columbia has mined MIles Davis catalog to absurd points yet they reissue almost nothing from Duke Ellington's vast catalog. It's purely about what they can market to audiences who will buy what they are told to buy. "Build it and they will come"
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