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I used to work under Ed Fries. It was a nightmare. This was during his tenure as one of the co-founders of Airtight Games, and it was so bad that he doesn't even include the company on his resume.
A sad recurring tale of the game industry, dev team wants to create an original and unique experience, investors/publisher/heads of the studio decline and force the team to make a less interesting and washed out experience/money making online only game. Game ends up being canned/released and killed later on, how many stories like these we've heard of by now? Plenty, and we're all left to wonder the what if's of the whole thing, I know selling to a publisher or investors is a financial solution but more often than not is like selling your soul to the devil himself.
Does anyone else see the irony of the ads in videos like this. A video of a company that went out of business because they wanted to jump on the bandwagon of free to play games, brought to you by a sh*tty free to play game.
Out of touch doesn't begin to describe MS. They have always been legendarily bad at integrating companies they buy. Theese mostly just die within 3 years with almost nothing to show for it. They suffer from not-invented-here syndrome to an unbelievable degree. They can buy a company for billions and still insist they know better. The Xbox division is actually an outlier in that some companies they buy don't die. The difference is that they don't really try to integrate the game companies, which shields them from the MS death touch. They do meddle though, as this video makes clear.
Imagine taking a studio that specialized in amazing single player games and then force them to make a shitty online game. Then acting all surprised. Microsoft showed its shear incompetence.
@@GameOnJesse That's fantastic, unfortunately it doesn't negate my point that it's exactly what they were for the entire 360 era and a major chunk of the Xbone era. Also, you need to google Everquest, cause they already did it 20+ years ago.
It must've been hard to try and not go off on a tangent about how Peter Molyneux was basically a grifter. When i heard that he's working on an NFT game after he abandoned Godus i laughed, that kind of thing is perfect for him
@@TheCoolCucumber The difference between George and Peter is that George is retired for good. The final films that he made, the Star Wars prequels, revolutionised the special effects in cinema on a scale not seen since the originals. We're still seeing ripples from that era with modern blockbusters shot entirely inside green rooms.
I'm not sure if you've ever covered the SimCity franchise, but now that it's the 10-year anniversary since the disaster that killed it. I'd love to see an episode on it. I love that Cities: Skylines took over, but I'm sad that the SimCity franchise died.
@@judgedrekk2981 Cities Skilines is a DLC hog/trap, and CS2 is doomed to die as KSP2 because crappy performance/lack of features/dlc creep and no mods allowed outside paradox mod manager. Sim City 4 is still the king city simulator.
The inability for SimCity to even offer a "save" function meant any city-destroying bug would permanently destroy a city and that's happened to me constantly. It was such a bonkers concept to try.
Dead Space went through similar issues with EA. It was the microtransaction that killed dead space 3, which then ruined the series altogether by shelving the franchise. It is insane how publisher will do anything they can to ruin a franchise even if that means robbing its identity that made the game.
Dead Space 3 had a crappy story and gameplay inferior to 1, 2, and 1 remake. They couldn't even make the co-op remotely like RE5 & RE6. Just underwhelming overall.
@@blackdragon6oh stop it, if it didn't have the Dead Space name, it would have been a long forgotten 6/10 random xbox 360 game lost to history. The game was mediocre in every regard and wouldn't have been remembered as anything special even if it wasn't being compared to DS 1 and 2
The first 2 Fable titles plus the Lost Chapters were fixtures of my adolescence and I'm glad I still have them in my collection. Being what you want to be and developing your reputation alongside battling bandits/monsters in forests or elsewhere kept me busy for hours, not to mention the other features of progression or buying property in game. Innovation that then got swept into the generic pit. Sad.
I only got Fable+The Lost Chapters, since Fable II wasn't available on the PC whilst having the flaw of setting up the lackluster Fable III. Suffice to say, am surprised that I+TLC still works quite well as a standalone RPG title.
Almost the same mistake EA did with Bioware having to develope Anthem. If you buy a studio which makes rpgs you should use them for making those games because they have passion for that and are good at that. But instead the fuck ups at the top decide we need to chase that live service model so many coregamers hate.
A studio is not a building that stay the same over the years but rather the people working there. Naughty Dog started with Jak&Daxter and Crash Bandicoot but eventually made Uncharted 4 and TLOU2. If you hire the right staff and have appropriate tech to achieve realistics goals then a studio can make any game genre .... a studio can be further split into several teams having different expertice working on different games
I have a theory about this. What if these developers(BioWare, Arkane) purposely make bad or disappointing live service games so that they aren't asked to make another or continue working on the one they made...arkane made Redfall btw lol
@@savage751 wouldnt call it purposely, but if you dont have passion for a project which also is financed via ESG so that you have to put characters in you dont really like the game will certainly not turn out good. And usually companies build a fandom for themself with the type of genre they are good at. And those fans will not just play a new genre they dont like where they also get mtx and seasonpasses.
@@ulrichleukam1068 yeah but only if the people there want to make a game like that, if its forced top down, you only make the neccessary stuff for the paycheck but not more. And fans of the studio games will not just jump to a game like anthem if they enjoy rpgs.
This tale is as old as video game publishers: -Developer wants to develop Project A, which is in line with what the studio is experienced with. -Publisher wants them to develop Project B, which is not in line with what the studio is experienced with. -Developer is forced to develop Project B even though they try to tell them it's a bad idea. -Project B is a failure, causing the developer and publisher huge financial losses. -Publisher closes down development studio. -Publisher goes to next development studio and repeats the process.
Closing down Lionhead will leave a bad taste in my mouth about Microsoft for as long as I live. Then digging Fable back up with a new studio that doesn't know how to make rpgs and just leaves it in development hell for years, what a great company
Don’t forget about what Microsoft did to Rare and Double Fine too. It’s a bit too soon to say but it feels like they’re also letting Zenimax destroy itself
Microsoft has been on the L train since they lost Bungie and put the halo franchise under a studio who admitted to not liking the game and trying to reinvent it
@@linkaj12Rare is going strong with sea of thieves and double fine released Psychonauts 2 to critical acclaim. The game is as good as it is because MS gave them additional time and funding. Dummy
Microsoft being as tone-deaf as most other major publishers... because it's gone so well for single player franschises adapted into "as a service" crap over the last decade. Games as a service is basically always hit and miss, and most of these titles "miss" by a huge frikkin' margin. And considering that the vast majority of them are cheap money grabs that barely function as well... the greedy ass piss ants on top have no idea what makes a good game and should just stay out of game development. What Fable fan even asked for a Fable game as described here? Oh right, not a single one. About as well concieved as the Legacy of Kain spin-off MOBA Nosgoth. A game not a single LoK fan wanted. It is nigh impossible to make a "games as a service" game from a single player franchise, because 90% of the actual fanbase do not want that kind of game. Business-minded people trying to make decisions about games is about as valid as a blind person trying to paint masterpieces.
I'm so old (51), I still remember when Peter Molyneux was still widely respected, before seemingly becoming a founding creator of The Fantastical Liars' Club, along with Todd Howard.
@@VincentVanBro I got this feeling Todd Howard has a lot less to do with Bethesda's problems and it is more on Zenimax and Microsoft respectively. Can't speak too much for Peter though.
His "case" is interesting, because he has quite a lot of really good and influential games under his belt (Syndicate, Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, the Fable series...). If the story ended there, this would have been a very successful track record for a game developer. But as you said, he eventually started drifting off into the fantasy land of his head and losing touch with reality.
Microsoft: Make the new Fable free to play. Lionhead: We're not sure that'll work. Microsoft: of course it will. Look at these other games making loads of wonga. Lionhead: we'd rather not. Microsoft: Do it or we close you. Lionhead: we'll do it. One year later... Microsoft: so that didn't work. We close you.
My username is from a film I made with The Movies! It's kinda awkward given the complete lack of context and the edgy mid-2000's stuff, but I've stuck with it for 16 years.
The worst part of this whole event is that Lionhead Studios wanted to make a singleplayer Fable 4. It was Microsoft who wanted it to be a multiplayer title instead. When development sunk the studio and Microsoft pivoted to say the next Fable will be a singleplayer game, ex-Lionhead developers were upset they were forced to make Legends when Fable 4 is what they wanted to make the whole time. This is why suits should NEVER be involved in game making. Let the ARTISTS make the art. Your ACCOUNTANTS don't get a say in what and how they should make it. ESPECIALLY in the name of chasing f*cking trends for potential profit margins!
Oof! they wanted to make a new actual fable game with the 4th. Microsoft: single player action RPG's are dying, live service is the future! also Microsoft: the Live Service they build failed so hard, they shut down the game and the studio. fast forward single player games is still going strong while live service one dies after two years and recent ones didn't even lasted for one year.
Hearing that initial vision again that Peter had for Fable, I’m reminded how that vision was never really delivered in any of the Fable games. Such unfulfilled potential.
PM is a classic example of someone who has some cool ideas, but never, ever being able to realise them into genuine success, his ideas are nice, but only skin deep (IMO)
I believe Molyneux was being genuine when he said he wanted to make that game. The problem is that he probably won't be alive when the technology to make such a game actually becomes feasible.
Peter Molyneux was a brilliant creative mind, able to come up with fantastic ideas for games. Unfortunately, he was always unable to come to terms with the reality that some of his ideas weren't feasible, and it always felt like he would go around promoting a game that never existed, while the team did their best to actually make something playable. Maybe if they communicated more, we would have gotten completely different games. I still liked Fable, though.
Ughhhhh why did The Movies fail. I can cant tell how much time i lost in putting together my studio and films. So awesome. It needed a sequel so bad. Sadly we ever got was an expansion.
I remember this. I'm not the biggest Fable fan but have played the three single player games and did enjoy them despite some of the controversies. I don't understand how anyone thought a live service Fable game would be a good idea. I suppose it could work but its not the type of game Fable fans would be interested in. I'm also not the least surprised that the developers themselves werent fans of the idea either. Fable fans want a Fable game, not an online live service game with a Fable skin. Its not going to fool anybody and unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time because of people in the position of power not understanding what the players want. So much money and work wasted for nothing.
I played the Fable Legends closed beta for a year and was very active in the forums and the community. I loved every minute of it and it's a time I remember both with happiness and a tinge of sadness.
Lionhead Studios gave me the original Fable which is my favorite game to date. It's sad Microsoft Studios didn't foster their ideas and instead broke up the team and eventually killed a once promising studio. R.I.P Lionhead
1 and 2 were classic storybook settings where your choices had a neat impact on the emotion of the story being told. I can not understand how you go from that to end up in what Legends was being pitched as.
Microsoft executives took down fable. Always suspected it was them all along. They did thr same to Halo. All the new publishers and studios they own will eventually end up like Lionhead.
Yeah, about the new game. I don't care about it. The old games had a distinct Fable charm and aura. The new game looks like your generic California Fanfiction. Hard pass. Legends despite being a multiplayer game, still looked like Fable.
Overall, it seems like it was mostly Microsoft’s wrong doing with micro transactions, and always online features. Had that not happened and we got a different reality where fable 4 was much more darker and grittier; we would be talking about fable 5 right now.
I actually loved Fable Legends. I reckon its multiplayer co-op focus was well ahead of its time in terms of asymmetrical content. The design, art, music, and overall identity oozed next-level charm in a whimsical fantasy setting that to this day remains unchallenged, and unsurpassed. It really was Dreamworks brought to life. Unfortunately, the timing, budget pressures, and timeline for effective release hampered the ability of the title to reach audiences and casual players. In my mind, a complete release of Fable Legends in today's market would be a smash hit.
You make some great content that really dives into a lot of what surrounds some well-known IPs. I'd love to see such a video on the Legacy of Kain series and what went on behind the scenes during each game.
I can proudly say I was invited to stage 1 closed Beta, enjoyed the hell out of it, And I am sure I got hours of recordings on one of my many archive HDDs. It had such potential.
Never believe anything a CEO says about a game in development. Ever. They've been told that crap by either yes-men or scared middle managers desperate to impress, and then the CEO themselves over-embellishes it. I doubt the actual devs ever had any say in half the bullshit we get told games are going to be capable of.
Cut some grass in Zelda and then reload the zone ;) The great thing about such an abstract lie, is that it can be technically true. That’s how Todd can keep spouting half-truths. As long as they are so vague, people can defend his embellishments as true.
Such a tragedy for the good developers at Lionhead. Amid all the cookie cutter AAA games, there is still no series like Fable or Black & White. Asymmetric multiplayer games are hard to make, which is probably why we still have so few of them. Add to that forcing a large team of creative individuals to work on something they have no passion for, all just to service a shiny new business model. There are too many examples of this in the industry nowadays but maybe Lionhead was one of the first casualties. In industries requiring creativity, if management decides to shit on the passion of its staff rather than doing everything they can to protect and nurture it, the passion dies. Lionhead was finished the moment Microsoft said "live service multiplayer."
This will always be one I feel my favorite series. The world felt so much wider than it actually was and it made you feel like the experience was endless. Then molyneux went insane. #FREEMILO
I was in the camp of people not wanting to give this game a chance. I wanted Fable 4, period. I didn't want a stupid multiplayer game. So when it was cancelled I jumped for joy... and then immediately felt terrible when the news of Lionheads closure hit. And while im cautiously optimistic about the new Fable from Playground Games, I'm simultaneously nervous because the recent trailer did nothing to ease my worries. I feel like it's going to be a step forward technologically, but be nothing like it's predecessors and not in a good way. It may even go backwards by having the main character be very predefined when it should be going forward and giving the player more freedom to customize the characters sex and appearance right from the start.
Dont be optimistic. The new Fable game is going to be even worse than fable legends. I know the studio and the people working on it and they are even worse than the post fable-2 lionhead people who made fable-3/fable legends which were the two trash games that ruined that company.
@kenshigo3833 The character they used in the trailer is ugly, but that's not really a woke thing. The theories that the character is based on a Trans employee are also nothing more than speculation, Playground announced an actual model that used as the base for the character(and as usual the model looks better than the character.). However they never confirmed that this character is THE protagonist of the game and we can't change it. There could be a male option and we could have more control over the appearance. The game is likely two years away yet so it's too early to know.
@@nihren2406 i couldn´t care less about speculations. female protagonist to showcase: check ugly female on purpose: check race swapping the giant in the clouds from Jack and the Beanstalk: check maging him look like a nerd: check and many more. It´s woke trash from the get go and you´d be extremly naive to think this will be all in the final game!
10:20 This is why that idea is a disaster. Such a game will never be as good as any of those other games, and when you try to appeal to all people, you end up appealing to no one. Why play the resource management mobile game when there's still Minecraft? Why play the city builder on PC when SimCity exists? Also, no one person wants to do ALL of that for one game experience. The venn diagram of people who play shooters and the people who play resource management sims is practically two separate circles.
Watching this is an absolute trip, I know so many people in this video and am good freinds with John McCormack, can confirm, everyone wanted to make Fable 4 lol
And it's being developed by a studio with absolutely no experience of Rpgs, or even games with anything approaching a story. I hope it's good, but alarm bells are well and truly ringing in my head.
It shows just how dumb Microsoft is when it comes to production of their games. It is one of the major things Sony has over MS in that it just lets its developers make games instead of deciding what is best for them and ruining their founded IPs
So M$ wanted a money-making product with a famous franchise coat of paint instead of a fun idea for a game. Yeah that project was doomed from the beginning.
Microsoft tried the games as service model with other games, like Halo Infinite, and that failed spectacularly (Halo is basically dead at this point)... hopefully they've learned their lesson now (but I doubt it)...
No halo isn't dead..its still getting updated and have improved alot under the new leadership. Will be interesting to see how sony handles it but considering they have yet to release factions after bungie was brought in tells me sony are running into a similar problem..monetization
Fable legends is what the remake should look like graphics wise. I would have bought this game if they released it. As terrible as not being able to play it like a fable game is the overall gameplay, design, and subtle British humor is all there.
Sad that Fable is pretty much dead. I don't have much faith in the racing studio doing ot justice after those trailers. Didn't look or feel remotely like Fable.
Project Opal looked pretty sick ngl. I don't really like Molyneux as a person but I do really like his games and style (at least if he gets some well placed checks and constraints). Would've loved to see how Fable 2/3 and Legends/Project Opal would've turned out if Microsoft and Co had just let him cook. Fable 2 and even 3 were pretty good too in my opinion but it wasn't really what Molyneux and others at Lionhead had envisioned. I'm wondering if this was also part of why he grew tired of the franchise. Fable is yet another victim of Zeitgeist in my opinion.. Whenever a game becomes a surprise success every other AA and AAA game needs to bend and twist and be pressed into the same mold, unfortunately. This rarely goes well and more often than not, instead of recognizing alienating the original audience and turning the game into something completely different as a mistake, the entire IP gets canceled or handed to a completely different developer, who (often times) doesn't get the original vision of the game and they'd rather force their own formula onto it, which also often backfires. Really hope the new Fable will turn out well but I highly highly doubt it.. Still, I'll just wait for its release and hope to get proven wrong.
they double killed Fable with whatever the hell that MC character is it's fascinating watching triple AAA gaming deteriorate into the abyss of degeneracy.
I remember playing the beta for this when it came out. Graphics looked good but the gameplay wasn't there. And I think it's safe to say all of us wanted a proper Fable 4. Here's to hoping that the new Fable game will take the torch and be a great game.
I had so much fun with Lionhead's "The Movies" before Microsoft made older games on disc unplayable because of a security update. Such a shame it's impossible to get legally anymore
Unpopular take - Fable 2 killed the series on the rise, NOT Fable 3. Why? Think about the market during that time. Oblivion became a nostalgic part of many people's childhood ONLY because JoWood sabotaged Gothic 3 development and because Microsoft made Fable 2 exclusive. The entire playerbase of Oblivion was ripe for Fable 2 to sell to. And yet what happened instead, eh? Fable 2 market share was cut with a hard limit of exclusivity. It became a niche game. All the commeters talking about Microsoft misunderstanding the scope of a niche genre misunderstanding that Microsoft FORCED Fable to become niche. It wasn't. Fable 2(exclusivity and streamlining) and Gothic 3(basically unfinished) were bound to greatness, instead sabotaged by their publishers.
So I played in the Fable Legends beta, like the entire beta. It was such a fun and interesting game. The characters had so much personality and interesting abilites. It's a real shame the game was never "finished." I'm not joking when I say I think about that game often. Although I don't recall playing as the Villain that much. I played every Hero I could, If that game would have come out. EVERYONE would know those characters.
Funny how you all praise n worship Fable yet contribute to its very demise advertising and selling out to Dungeon clearing brainless mobile trash that prov has tons of macrotransactions
Hot take. But I genuinely think Microsoft should re-open/commission Lionhead and bring in those veteran devs to lead a new team to revive those beloved IP's.
I'm still a bit gutted that this game was never released, and didn't come together properly. I actually chose an XB1 over a PS4 based partially on my love for the Fable franchise (and Titanfall at the time), but that faith was never rewarded unfortunately - I would love to see the series to form, something along the lines of Fable 2.
I can't tell which would be worse, games-as-a-service Fable Legends or the upcoming, super-woke, likely-anti-fanbase Fable reboot "for modern audiences."
Executives are a cancer in the gaming space. Ironically if they made fable 4, xbox would have gotten what they wanted by having another game reach halo lvls of profit. "Single player campaign games were on it's way out" lol how poorly that aged.
I remember when Baldur’s Gate 3 was copping a lot of hate and uncertainty while that was in development- the same thing Fable by Playground is copping now so this might actually be a good thing.
i grew up on Nintendo games and later on found my place on the PlayStation side of the spectrum. Xbox never really appeal to me so i must have miss a few good rpg's and action adventure games.
I'm still salty we never got Fable 2 on PC. I loved Fable 1 (and the PC version was fine, but the anniversary version I put way more time into) and while I didn't think Fable 3 was very good, I still had a good time. But Fable 2, sigh.
I wonder if Xbox can bring this franchise back. They sure could use it, but I'm honestly quite skeptical given their track record and the fact that they've made the baffling decision to assign the project to a studio that has been exclusively making racing games up until now.
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How about a tragedy on the Xbox One episode?
@GVMERS
I agree with @TheEDFLegacy 's idea. Please make a video on the downfall of Sim City due to its 2013 disaster. 🥺
I used to work under Ed Fries. It was a nightmare. This was during his tenure as one of the co-founders of Airtight Games, and it was so bad that he doesn't even include the company on his resume.
Who, Ed? And yikes. 😮
Ok Mr wobbles
@@djtoxicdhg ok Mr. Djtoxichg
See? RUclips gamertag literally doesn't mean a thing you tw@ 🤣
@@djtoxicdhg?
man, that company had potential, i remember the hype surrounding the writer of Portal joining that studio.
Fable 1 & 2 were legendary. This game will never die in my heart lol
A sad recurring tale of the game industry, dev team wants to create an original and unique experience, investors/publisher/heads of the studio decline and force the team to make a less interesting and washed out experience/money making online only game.
Game ends up being canned/released and killed later on, how many stories like these we've heard of by now? Plenty, and we're all left to wonder the what if's of the whole thing, I know selling to a publisher or investors is a financial solution but more often than not is like selling your soul to the devil himself.
Give me a The Movies remaster and I can die happy
Does anyone else see the irony of the ads in videos like this. A video of a company that went out of business because they wanted to jump on the bandwagon of free to play games, brought to you by a sh*tty free to play game.
when it was said that we would play the entire game of Fable with just the press of One button..
It was over.
Ahhh, the first video game cancellation that really burnt me
is this the same guys voice who also does EXPLORE WITH US channel?
5:09 Tought it was Putin for a second, but silly me it was only Steve Jackson
Had to watch this because I honestly don't remember Fable Legends at all...
"Microsoft wanted Fable to reach Halo levels of profitability" (9:18)
They have achieved that goal marvelously.
Just goes to show how out of touch execs are; expecting a pretty niche genre and game to reach system seller numbers
Out of touch doesn't begin to describe MS. They have always been legendarily bad at integrating companies they buy. Theese mostly just die within 3 years with almost nothing to show for it. They suffer from not-invented-here syndrome to an unbelievable degree. They can buy a company for billions and still insist they know better.
The Xbox division is actually an outlier in that some companies they buy don't die. The difference is that they don't really try to integrate the game companies, which shields them from the MS death touch. They do meddle though, as this video makes clear.
Nothing like a billion dollar company trying to chase a fad so that by the time they make what they chasing something new is already popular lol
At least we still got the Master Chief Collection and The Lost Chapters on, say, the PC, so it's not a complete rut.
@@GameOnJesse Gods, I hope you drop down from the hype wheelbarrow.
They spent $75 million on this project? Now we know why we've been waiting for Fable 4 for so long...I still play Lost Chapters and Anniversary lol
I go back and play all of them every 2-4 years
Imagine taking a studio that specialized in amazing single player games and then force them to make a shitty online game. Then acting all surprised. Microsoft showed its shear incompetence.
Don't forget, they also took Rare and turned them into a Kinect shovelware and avatar hat factory.
@@hwogrillo true
They tend to do that.
@@cleny217Man you are playstation clamboy you should look at your own house when throwing rocks on another
@@GameOnJesse That's fantastic, unfortunately it doesn't negate my point that it's exactly what they were for the entire 360 era and a major chunk of the Xbone era.
Also, you need to google Everquest, cause they already did it 20+ years ago.
I miss Fable and Lionhead! Also the Black and White series. I could never understand how games like Black and White were never attempted/made again 😭
Havent thought about the B&W games in years, but really enjoyed them at the time, with modern systems they could make a great new version.
Black & White in VR 🤯
Just a wild guess but maybe they patented that type of game so no one else can make em
Shocking how the B&W games haven't gotten polished rereleases in Steam/GOG.
I can. They sold poorly.
Oh this one is gonna hurt.
It must've been hard to try and not go off on a tangent about how Peter Molyneux was basically a grifter. When i heard that he's working on an NFT game after he abandoned Godus i laughed, that kind of thing is perfect for him
He's still got a string of heavy hitters though.
@@TheCoolCucumber The difference between George and Peter is that George is retired for good. The final films that he made, the Star Wars prequels, revolutionised the special effects in cinema on a scale not seen since the originals. We're still seeing ripples from that era with modern blockbusters shot entirely inside green rooms.
I'm not sure if you've ever covered the SimCity franchise, but now that it's the 10-year anniversary since the disaster that killed it. I'd love to see an episode on it. I love that Cities: Skylines took over, but I'm sad that the SimCity franchise died.
It often seems to be this "games as a service" that kills studios and games. Not to mention the difficulty of preserving always-online games.
good call....
what EA has done to Sim City and Sims is a travesty....EA's loss, Cities Skylines gain....
@@judgedrekk2981 Cities Skilines is a DLC hog/trap, and CS2 is doomed to die as KSP2 because crappy performance/lack of features/dlc creep and no mods allowed outside paradox mod manager.
Sim City 4 is still the king city simulator.
Screw EA, the more games of their's that crumble the better.
The inability for SimCity to even offer a "save" function meant any city-destroying bug would permanently destroy a city and that's happened to me constantly. It was such a bonkers concept to try.
Dead Space went through similar issues with EA. It was the microtransaction that killed dead space 3, which then ruined the series altogether by shelving the franchise. It is insane how publisher will do anything they can to ruin a franchise even if that means robbing its identity that made the game.
Dead Space 3 was a crap game. Even without microtransactions
Dead Space 3 had a crappy story and gameplay inferior to 1, 2, and 1 remake. They couldn't even make the co-op remotely like RE5 & RE6. Just underwhelming overall.
@@mr.sinjin-smyththe co-op was the best thing about it. People just hate cause it wasn't DS1, but on it's own it was solid.
@@blackdragon6oh stop it, if it didn't have the Dead Space name, it would have been a long forgotten 6/10 random xbox 360 game lost to history. The game was mediocre in every regard and wouldn't have been remembered as anything special even if it wasn't being compared to DS 1 and 2
The first 2 Fable titles plus the Lost Chapters were fixtures of my adolescence and I'm glad I still have them in my collection. Being what you want to be and developing your reputation alongside battling bandits/monsters in forests or elsewhere kept me busy for hours, not to mention the other features of progression or buying property in game. Innovation that then got swept into the generic pit. Sad.
I only got Fable+The Lost Chapters, since Fable II wasn't available on the PC whilst having the flaw of setting up the lackluster Fable III.
Suffice to say, am surprised that I+TLC still works quite well as a standalone RPG title.
It was the scars system npc dialog for me.. so many hours spent building negative rep
Almost the same mistake EA did with Bioware having to develope Anthem. If you buy a studio which makes rpgs you should use them for making those games because they have passion for that and are good at that. But instead the fuck ups at the top decide we need to chase that live service model so many coregamers hate.
A studio is not a building that stay the same over the years but rather the people working there. Naughty Dog started with Jak&Daxter and Crash Bandicoot but eventually made Uncharted 4 and TLOU2. If you hire the right staff and have appropriate tech to achieve realistics goals then a studio can make any game genre .... a studio can be further split into several teams having different expertice working on different games
I have a theory about this. What if these developers(BioWare, Arkane) purposely make bad or disappointing live service games so that they aren't asked to make another or continue working on the one they made...arkane made Redfall btw lol
@@savage751 wouldnt call it purposely, but if you dont have passion for a project which also is financed via ESG so that you have to put characters in you dont really like the game will certainly not turn out good. And usually companies build a fandom for themself with the type of genre they are good at. And those fans will not just play a new genre they dont like where they also get mtx and seasonpasses.
@@ulrichleukam1068 yeah but only if the people there want to make a game like that, if its forced top down, you only make the neccessary stuff for the paycheck but not more. And fans of the studio games will not just jump to a game like anthem if they enjoy rpgs.
@@GameOnJesse I havent seen any gameplay yet.
It's crazy how good the game still looks graphicly. It looks like it could still release today, reminds me of Arkham Knight in that way.
This tale is as old as video game publishers:
-Developer wants to develop Project A, which is in line with what the studio is experienced with.
-Publisher wants them to develop Project B, which is not in line with what the studio is experienced with.
-Developer is forced to develop Project B even though they try to tell them it's a bad idea.
-Project B is a failure, causing the developer and publisher huge financial losses.
-Publisher closes down development studio.
-Publisher goes to next development studio and repeats the process.
Closing down Lionhead will leave a bad taste in my mouth about Microsoft for as long as I live. Then digging Fable back up with a new studio that doesn't know how to make rpgs and just leaves it in development hell for years, what a great company
Don’t forget about what Microsoft did to Rare and Double Fine too. It’s a bit too soon to say but it feels like they’re also letting Zenimax destroy itself
Microsoft has been on the L train since they lost Bungie and put the halo franchise under a studio who admitted to not liking the game and trying to reinvent it
@@linkaj12Rare is going strong with sea of thieves and double fine released Psychonauts 2 to critical acclaim. The game is as good as it is because MS gave them additional time and funding. Dummy
@@GameOnJesse Their trailer doesn't say so.
Ensemble Studios says hi!
Microsoft being as tone-deaf as most other major publishers... because it's gone so well for single player franschises adapted into "as a service" crap over the last decade.
Games as a service is basically always hit and miss, and most of these titles "miss" by a huge frikkin' margin. And considering that the vast majority of them are cheap money grabs that barely function as well... the greedy ass piss ants on top have no idea what makes a good game and should just stay out of game development.
What Fable fan even asked for a Fable game as described here? Oh right, not a single one. About as well concieved as the Legacy of Kain spin-off MOBA Nosgoth. A game not a single LoK fan wanted.
It is nigh impossible to make a "games as a service" game from a single player franchise, because 90% of the actual fanbase do not want that kind of game.
Business-minded people trying to make decisions about games is about as valid as a blind person trying to paint masterpieces.
I'm so old (51), I still remember when Peter Molyneux was still widely respected, before seemingly becoming a founding creator of The Fantastical Liars' Club, along with Todd Howard.
Todd is a card carrier but Peter is the founder
@@VincentVanBro
I got this feeling Todd Howard has a lot less to do with Bethesda's problems and it is more on Zenimax and Microsoft respectively. Can't speak too much for Peter though.
His "case" is interesting, because he has quite a lot of really good and influential games under his belt (Syndicate, Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, the Fable series...). If the story ended there, this would have been a very successful track record for a game developer.
But as you said, he eventually started drifting off into the fantasy land of his head and losing touch with reality.
@@TheCoolCucumber
And Zenimax?
@@gamersinger5118Microsoft took over far into development, it's not them it's bethesda being lazy cunts like usual
Microsoft: Make the new Fable free to play.
Lionhead: We're not sure that'll work.
Microsoft: of course it will. Look at these other games making loads of wonga.
Lionhead: we'd rather not.
Microsoft: Do it or we close you.
Lionhead: we'll do it.
One year later...
Microsoft: so that didn't work. We close you.
Man I loved Lionhead Studios. The Movies and expansion packs got me into filmmaking.
but they were led by a charlatan
@@OK-hl6qdcharlatan with better record than any aaa developer this days
That’s the first game I’ve saved up money and bought. Still have and love it.
Also I used to make Hitman (agent 47) movies😄 Amazing game
My username is from a film I made with The Movies! It's kinda awkward given the complete lack of context and the edgy mid-2000's stuff, but I've stuck with it for 16 years.
@@finalboss5966any developers? ID software? FromSoftware? Larian Studio?
The worst part of this whole event is that Lionhead Studios wanted to make a singleplayer Fable 4. It was Microsoft who wanted it to be a multiplayer title instead. When development sunk the studio and Microsoft pivoted to say the next Fable will be a singleplayer game, ex-Lionhead developers were upset they were forced to make Legends when Fable 4 is what they wanted to make the whole time.
This is why suits should NEVER be involved in game making. Let the ARTISTS make the art. Your ACCOUNTANTS don't get a say in what and how they should make it. ESPECIALLY in the name of chasing f*cking trends for potential profit margins!
Boy oh boy, do I miss sometimes those wild Peter Molyneux promises that almost always failed to deliver 🤣
Oof!
they wanted to make a new actual fable game with the 4th.
Microsoft: single player action RPG's are dying, live service is the future!
also Microsoft: the Live Service they build failed so hard, they shut down the game and the studio.
fast forward single player games is still going strong while live service one dies after two years and recent ones didn't even lasted for one year.
I remember when i played Kingdoms of Amalur and i thought....that was more along the lines of what i wanted Fable to be
how? they have nothing in common, I liked KoA but it was a completely different kind of RPG
The fact you're even comparing that hot piece of dog shit to fable is hilarious.
Hearing that initial vision again that Peter had for Fable, I’m reminded how that vision was never really delivered in any of the Fable games. Such unfulfilled potential.
That's Peter Molyneux for you.
There was no original vision. Peter Molyneux has always been a liar who was just there to make hype for the games. He's the original Todd Howard.
PM is a classic example of someone who has some cool ideas, but never, ever being able to realise them into genuine success, his ideas are nice, but only skin deep (IMO)
I believe Molyneux was being genuine when he said he wanted to make that game. The problem is that he probably won't be alive when the technology to make such a game actually becomes feasible.
Peter Molyneux was a brilliant creative mind, able to come up with fantastic ideas for games. Unfortunately, he was always unable to come to terms with the reality that some of his ideas weren't feasible, and it always felt like he would go around promoting a game that never existed, while the team did their best to actually make something playable. Maybe if they communicated more, we would have gotten completely different games. I still liked Fable, though.
Ughhhhh why did The Movies fail. I can cant tell how much time i lost in putting together my studio and films. So awesome. It needed a sequel so bad. Sadly we ever got was an expansion.
I remember this. I'm not the biggest Fable fan but have played the three single player games and did enjoy them despite some of the controversies. I don't understand how anyone thought a live service Fable game would be a good idea. I suppose it could work but its not the type of game Fable fans would be interested in. I'm also not the least surprised that the developers themselves werent fans of the idea either. Fable fans want a Fable game, not an online live service game with a Fable skin. Its not going to fool anybody and unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time because of people in the position of power not understanding what the players want. So much money and work wasted for nothing.
I played the Fable Legends closed beta for a year and was very active in the forums and the community. I loved every minute of it and it's a time I remember both with happiness and a tinge of sadness.
Could not agree more
Lionhead Studios gave me the original Fable which is my favorite game to date. It's sad Microsoft Studios didn't foster their ideas and instead broke up the team and eventually killed a once promising studio.
R.I.P Lionhead
1 and 2 were classic storybook settings where your choices had a neat impact on the emotion of the story being told. I can not understand how you go from that to end up in what Legends was being pitched as.
Microsoft executives took down fable. Always suspected it was them all along. They did thr same to Halo. All the new publishers and studios they own will eventually end up like Lionhead.
Yeah, about the new game. I don't care about it. The old games had a distinct Fable charm and aura. The new game looks like your generic California Fanfiction. Hard pass. Legends despite being a multiplayer game, still looked like Fable.
Black and White, the Movies all great games forever lost in the liscensing multiverse.
If Fable legends killed it, what's Fable 4 with its questionable Character Design gonna do?
Overall, it seems like it was mostly Microsoft’s wrong doing with micro transactions, and always online features. Had that not happened and we got a different reality where fable 4 was much more darker and grittier; we would be talking about fable 5 right now.
I actually loved Fable Legends. I reckon its multiplayer co-op focus was well ahead of its time in terms of asymmetrical content.
The design, art, music, and overall identity oozed next-level charm in a whimsical fantasy setting that to this day remains unchallenged, and unsurpassed. It really was Dreamworks brought to life.
Unfortunately, the timing, budget pressures, and timeline for effective release hampered the ability of the title to reach audiences and casual players. In my mind, a complete release of Fable Legends in today's market would be a smash hit.
It was so good right! I was on the beta! I was devastated
God damn you Microsoft and I have no hope for the next fable
You make some great content that really dives into a lot of what surrounds some well-known IPs. I'd love to see such a video on the Legacy of Kain series and what went on behind the scenes during each game.
I can proudly say I was invited to stage 1 closed Beta, enjoyed the hell out of it, And I am sure I got hours of recordings on one of my many archive HDDs. It had such potential.
you should upload it
Yea call the upload series, "The Legend of Legends"
@@TheCoolCucumberThe game also has big ugly watermarks on it to prevent leaking gameplay
I remembered wanting to work at lionhead because I loved the fable games so much. Fable 1&2 were amazing. 3 was ok.
Still waiting for a game where I can cut a blade of grass and wait for it to grow back…what big promises, Mr. Molyneux
Over promise, under deliver. The Molyneux way.
Never believe anything a CEO says about a game in development. Ever.
They've been told that crap by either yes-men or scared middle managers desperate to impress, and then the CEO themselves over-embellishes it.
I doubt the actual devs ever had any say in half the bullshit we get told games are going to be capable of.
Cut some grass in Zelda and then reload the zone ;)
The great thing about such an abstract lie, is that it can be technically true.
That’s how Todd can keep spouting half-truths. As long as they are so vague, people can defend his embellishments as true.
Every time I hear Peter Molyneux's name I think of Guru Larry 🤣 I don't know anything about Mr Molyneux except that Larry hates him.
Such a tragedy for the good developers at Lionhead. Amid all the cookie cutter AAA games, there is still no series like Fable or Black & White. Asymmetric multiplayer games are hard to make, which is probably why we still have so few of them. Add to that forcing a large team of creative individuals to work on something they have no passion for, all just to service a shiny new business model. There are too many examples of this in the industry nowadays but maybe Lionhead was one of the first casualties.
In industries requiring creativity, if management decides to shit on the passion of its staff rather than doing everything they can to protect and nurture it, the passion dies. Lionhead was finished the moment Microsoft said "live service multiplayer."
This will always be one I feel my favorite series. The world felt so much wider than it actually was and it made you feel like the experience was endless.
Then molyneux went insane.
#FREEMILO
Words cannot describe my utter disdain for "games as a service"
I was in the camp of people not wanting to give this game a chance. I wanted Fable 4, period. I didn't want a stupid multiplayer game. So when it was cancelled I jumped for joy... and then immediately felt terrible when the news of Lionheads closure hit. And while im cautiously optimistic about the new Fable from Playground Games, I'm simultaneously nervous because the recent trailer did nothing to ease my worries. I feel like it's going to be a step forward technologically, but be nothing like it's predecessors and not in a good way. It may even go backwards by having the main character be very predefined when it should be going forward and giving the player more freedom to customize the characters sex and appearance right from the start.
Dont be optimistic. The new Fable game is going to be even worse than fable legends. I know the studio and the people working on it and they are even worse than the post fable-2 lionhead people who made fable-3/fable legends which were the two trash games that ruined that company.
How can you be optimistic when the first trailer already shows that it will be a w0ke disaster like all the others, or disney movies...
@kenshigo3833 The character they used in the trailer is ugly, but that's not really a woke thing. The theories that the character is based on a Trans employee are also nothing more than speculation, Playground announced an actual model that used as the base for the character(and as usual the model looks better than the character.). However they never confirmed that this character is THE protagonist of the game and we can't change it. There could be a male option and we could have more control over the appearance. The game is likely two years away yet so it's too early to know.
@@nihren2406 i couldn´t care less about speculations.
female protagonist to showcase: check
ugly female on purpose: check
race swapping the giant in the clouds from Jack and the Beanstalk: check
maging him look like a nerd: check
and many more. It´s woke trash from the get go and you´d be extremly naive to think this will be all in the final game!
@@kenshigo3833 🤡
10:20 This is why that idea is a disaster. Such a game will never be as good as any of those other games, and when you try to appeal to all people, you end up appealing to no one. Why play the resource management mobile game when there's still Minecraft? Why play the city builder on PC when SimCity exists?
Also, no one person wants to do ALL of that for one game experience. The venn diagram of people who play shooters and the people who play resource management sims is practically two separate circles.
Watching this is an absolute trip, I know so many people in this video and am good freinds with John McCormack, can confirm, everyone wanted to make Fable 4 lol
People are seriously hyping a Fable game yet again. I get that it is one of Xbox's very few homegrown IPs but it was never all that good
And it's being developed by a studio with absolutely no experience of Rpgs, or even games with anything approaching a story.
I hope it's good, but alarm bells are well and truly ringing in my head.
It shows just how dumb Microsoft is when it comes to production of their games. It is one of the major things Sony has over MS in that it just lets its developers make games instead of deciding what is best for them and ruining their founded IPs
So M$ wanted a money-making product with a famous franchise coat of paint instead of a fun idea for a game.
Yeah that project was doomed from the beginning.
Microsoft tried the games as service model with other games, like Halo Infinite, and that failed spectacularly (Halo is basically dead at this point)... hopefully they've learned their lesson now (but I doubt it)...
No halo isn't dead..its still getting updated and have improved alot under the new leadership. Will be interesting to see how sony handles it but considering they have yet to release factions after bungie was brought in tells me sony are running into a similar problem..monetization
Can't wait for Fable 4 to come out and be just as disappointing as the Saints Row reboot.
What a time to be alive. 😍
Fable legends is what the remake should look like graphics wise. I would have bought this game if they released it. As terrible as not being able to play it like a fable game is the overall gameplay, design, and subtle British humor is all there.
Sad that Fable is pretty much dead. I don't have much faith in the racing studio doing ot justice after those trailers. Didn't look or feel remotely like Fable.
Looks like they learned nothing the next fable game looks awful
Forced the studio to go f2w live service, then close the studio with "heavy heart" when it didnt work out, absolutely vile.
Project Opal looked pretty sick ngl.
I don't really like Molyneux as a person but I do really like his games and style (at least if he gets some well placed checks and constraints). Would've loved to see how Fable 2/3 and Legends/Project Opal would've turned out if Microsoft and Co had just let him cook. Fable 2 and even 3 were pretty good too in my opinion but it wasn't really what Molyneux and others at Lionhead had envisioned. I'm wondering if this was also part of why he grew tired of the franchise.
Fable is yet another victim of Zeitgeist in my opinion.. Whenever a game becomes a surprise success every other AA and AAA game needs to bend and twist and be pressed into the same mold, unfortunately. This rarely goes well and more often than not, instead of recognizing alienating the original audience and turning the game into something completely different as a mistake, the entire IP gets canceled or handed to a completely different developer, who (often times) doesn't get the original vision of the game and they'd rather force their own formula onto it, which also often backfires.
Really hope the new Fable will turn out well but I highly highly doubt it.. Still, I'll just wait for its release and hope to get proven wrong.
I only wish they can make a sequel RPG just like Fable 2.
But they kept making the whole series worse with each new games😢
Molymeme was a liar, but he had a vision. Microsoft is why B&W3 will never happen.
I will never forget the first 3 times I finished Fable Lost Chapter. That was a game i loved for the choices, story, combat, ambience :)
they double killed Fable with whatever the hell that MC character is it's fascinating watching triple AAA gaming deteriorate into the abyss of degeneracy.
Microsoft has destroyed so many game studios we can see what they are doing to Bethesda as well sigh..
I remember playing the beta for this when it came out. Graphics looked good but the gameplay wasn't there. And I think it's safe to say all of us wanted a proper Fable 4. Here's to hoping that the new Fable game will take the torch and be a great game.
it won't
@@TheCoolCucumberLols
I had so much fun with Lionhead's "The Movies" before Microsoft made older games on disc unplayable because of a security update. Such a shame it's impossible to get legally anymore
Unpopular take - Fable 2 killed the series on the rise, NOT Fable 3.
Why? Think about the market during that time. Oblivion became a nostalgic part of many people's childhood ONLY because JoWood sabotaged Gothic 3 development and because Microsoft made Fable 2 exclusive. The entire playerbase of Oblivion was ripe for Fable 2 to sell to. And yet what happened instead, eh? Fable 2 market share was cut with a hard limit of exclusivity. It became a niche game. All the commeters talking about Microsoft misunderstanding the scope of a niche genre misunderstanding that Microsoft FORCED Fable to become niche. It wasn't. Fable 2(exclusivity and streamlining) and Gothic 3(basically unfinished) were bound to greatness, instead sabotaged by their publishers.
Free to Play sponsor on a video detailing how Free to Play killed a franchise.
So I played in the Fable Legends beta, like the entire beta. It was such a fun and interesting game. The characters had so much personality and interesting abilites. It's a real shame the game was never "finished." I'm not joking when I say I think about that game often. Although I don't recall playing as the Villain that much. I played every Hero I could, If that game would have come out. EVERYONE would know those characters.
Now they're going to do it again... with their woke bs lol.
Funny how you all praise n worship Fable yet contribute to its very demise advertising and selling out to Dungeon clearing brainless mobile trash that prov has tons of macrotransactions
at first I thought this ad was some type of troll
Hot take. But I genuinely think Microsoft should re-open/commission Lionhead and bring in those veteran devs to lead a new team to revive those beloved IP's.
Peter Molyneux's Magnum opus of lies.
I'm still a bit gutted that this game was never released, and didn't come together properly. I actually chose an XB1 over a PS4 based partially on my love for the Fable franchise (and Titanfall at the time), but that faith was never rewarded unfortunately - I would love to see the series to form, something along the lines of Fable 2.
FABLE had the potential to be another ELDER SCROLLS (lite very polished one) franchise but they blew it for the microtransactions multiplayer version.
I can't tell which would be worse, games-as-a-service Fable Legends or the upcoming, super-woke, likely-anti-fanbase Fable reboot "for modern audiences."
Executives are a cancer in the gaming space. Ironically if they made fable 4, xbox would have gotten what they wanted by having another game reach halo lvls of profit. "Single player campaign games were on it's way out" lol how poorly that aged.
Actually mad at Microsoft for shafting lionhead like that, holy cow.
I remember when Baldur’s Gate 3 was copping a lot of hate and uncertainty while that was in development- the same thing Fable by Playground is copping now so this might actually be a good thing.
Fucking hate free to play service games and what they’ve done to the storytelling games market. RIP Fable franchise, I loved you well.
I can't wait to see a GVMERS video on the upcoming FABLE
That's gonna flop harder than saints WOKE 😂😂
TL:DR, Microsofts greed and refusal to understand Fables fanbases desires killed the studio.
i grew up on Nintendo games and later on found my place on the PlayStation side of the spectrum. Xbox never really appeal to me so i must have miss a few good rpg's and action adventure games.
I'm still salty we never got Fable 2 on PC. I loved Fable 1 (and the PC version was fine, but the anniversary version I put way more time into) and while I didn't think Fable 3 was very good, I still had a good time. But Fable 2, sigh.
Trend chasing, and over fixation on MXTs and monetization is going to kill this industry.
I wonder if Xbox can bring this franchise back. They sure could use it, but I'm honestly quite skeptical given their track record and the fact that they've made the baffling decision to assign the project to a studio that has been exclusively making racing games up until now.
I got so mad watching this lol, wtf was Microsoft thinking.... ah yes, probably on the money $$$
Ultimately, it’s probably for the better that Legends never got to be finished.
RIP Fable, Murdered by Sweet Baby Inc
Microsoft either doesn’t know how games are made, they aren’t bothered to care enough about it, or they’re just terrible at making them.
So much time spent on what never should have even started development, fable is story driven single player first and foremost
They brought in mobile game specialists and you're surprised it failed? x'D
So upset rip wish I could play fable legends ! The fable series are my all time favourites