I climbed a 5.11 on sight today and injured my finger. I've healed other ligament injuries in the past but never in my fingers. I had no idea where to start. This video was super helpful and I really appreciated the article and that you explain the science. I like to understand my injuries so I can attend to them better. Thanks again and I'll be tuning in again for more learning.
This video was amazing!! wish Id watched this the first time I tore my a2. You should make a video on meniscus recovery, I tore mine 15mo ago and it feels like it will just be wobbly forever ;(
Great video. How do I tape the lowest collateral ligament? As the webbing of the finger gets in the way. I injured my index finger and my physio (a climber) said it was the collateral ligament at the bottom of the finger. It's been five weeks and I'm only starting to see noticeable improvement in the last few days. It's still tender to touch but is notably better. I was taping in a buddy way, to the finger next to it, as this reduced the pain when my index finger was pushed sideways. My GP said a scan wouldn't really show anything so she said to just listen to the physio.
Thx for watching! The best tape I've seen for this problem is pretty involved. You'd make tape anchors around both your palm and your index finger and make a functional tape support to stabilize from both sides by adding diagonal strips from both directions. A good alternative would be to have a hand therapist mock up a thermoplastic support that holds that finger in place but that makes it hard to use. Good luck with your healing!
@@focusrehab Your video was extremely helpful, including the science. Yay, science!!! My son is a HS wrestler and recently tore his collateral ligament on the lowest joint of the index finger. Any chance you can post of video of how to do this "involved" taping??? Ortho suggested only budding taping, but that doesn't seem nearly sufficient for the kind of stress wrestling puts on the joint. Thanks for considering!
Excellent review of the current literature which is always appreciated. This is an awesome video that explains the anatomy instead of just jumping into a "here's what to do." Given the limited blood flow to tendons/ligaments, is there anything that can facilitate healing? Will ring massagers or similar products stimulate blood flow to the area in a meaningful way that promotes accelerated healing?
thanks for watching, and great question! short answer - i'd consider adding some kind of tool assisted treatment, whether it's a true Gua Sha type instrument (on which much of the current PT specific tools, graston, rockblades etc are founded) or possibly the ring massagers. Here's a nice article summarizing that approach. www.e-jer.org/journal/view.php?number=2013600339. I haven't seen studies specific to ligaments but would consider using this approach with care - I'd pay particular attention to timing and matching the depth, intensity and volume of treatment to the tissue injury severity and stage of healing. Good luck!
@@focusrehab Thanks so much for the reply and linked article! It looks like in their approach they use IASTM, stretching, conditioning, and icing. I appreciate the direction and providing some literature. Thank you!
Thanks for the video! I have a collateral ligament injury and good info is hard to come by (so much of the info is about pulleys!). I was dubious about the 12+ minutes, but ended up really appreciating all the details (and I am also a scientist, so fully support your sponsor). Unfortunately, I am having a hard time getting my Dr to understand climbing, so would appreciate your perspective. An MRI shows "chronic partial tearing" on the PIP collateral ligament of my middle finger. Is this a case where I really should take weeks or months off from climbing? Or would gentle climbing (with your taping method) be better for strong healing? I am already out of the swelling phase by several weeks, and worry that full rest will only lead to reinjury as soon as I start climbing again.
Hey Kristi! glad this was helpful! that chronic appearing tissue could mean multiple past acute-on-chronic events - little retears that kickstart the healing cycle again before it's complete. Generally speaking, with something chronic I would start more precisely with a loading strategy using light finger resistance bands and trainers and work up in force gradually until the trainer doesn't produce post activity swelling and/or pain/stiffness. then I would try short bouts of easy climbing and go from there. I do remote consultations too if there's ever a need or interest. good luck!
Thanks for this video! I injured my finger collateral ligament maybe 3 to 4 years ago and it has never recovered properly (some days when I wipe the windows I still tweak it and it hurts). It feels stiff and sore after a hard climbing session but doesn't significantly impact my climbing. Given it has been such a long time, will taping it still be helpful to prevent further injury / reduce stiffness and soreness?
Thanks for the question! Generally speaking, taping offloads those ligaments to a degree (depending on how comprehensively and tightly it is applied) so it should be helpful still even this long after your injury. Just ask any ball sports athlete who tapes their ankles before a game even years after an injury - what I love is that if it doesn't feel right, it's easy to take off and no harm done. Just not so tight it blocks blood flow of course. Good luck!
I'm in a very similar boat! I have a collateral tweak on my middle finger, middle joint. I initially took 3 months off, the did light hangboardind buddy taped for light climbing for about 5 months. Finally started going outside and would h-tape, which seemed to help. But it's definitely still there, feels stuff/tender after a hard session (kind of frustrating after taking so much time off)... have you tried this method of taping? How did it work/feel for you? I'll definitely try this taping method next session.
@@douglystyles I prefer the Z taping method over the H tape for collateral ligaments specifically because I feel I can control those lateral forces better. You'll want to be pretty confident in the diagnosis to 'just' use the Z method - if there's even a remote chance the pulley and/or tendon is involved I would actually consider doubling both these methods - very easy to H tape first with one piece, then layer a Z on top for bomber stability. The time frame to still feel stiffness is very normal for these injuries - depending on a climber's age it could take even 8 months or more before you won't notice it. Good luck!
@@focusrehab just as a quick follow-up, had a good session and climbed hard on my moonboard. Significantly less pain and stiffness after the session! Thanks again!
Hi, I see you did the tape for the top joint. Im assuming do the same tape job for the knuckle if that's where the tear is? Also, if I need a little more support, maybe do this tape job and add on buddy taping? thanks so much for the video. Very helpful.
Hey Cassie, absolutely you can do this for the proximal joint as well, same technique. For sure buddy taping will help too if you really need to protect an acute injury. Thx for watching!
Thanks for the video! New sub for you for sure! Unfortunately I think I have been suffering this injury over the past year but recently it has become more agitated. I've taken about 1 month off from climbing and when I returned it seemed like it was right where I left it. Immobilization has not seemed to help. It's really the specific holds that put pressure on the inside of my ring DIP. I went to a sports doctor, got an MRI and nada. She recommended immobilization. My question is... what is the milestone for moving from phase 1>>2? I'm still able to induce a pain response by prodding it, I assume that's a good indicator that it's still fresh. Thanks!
Hi Sean, glad it was helpful! Generally I would agree with you and give it more time. If there was no additional trauma and the test climbs weren't too intense and it still hurt, it'd be reasonable to wait till the superficial tenderness subsided and then try a week of easy friction massage and ROM exercises a couple times a day for 1-2 minutes at a time. If things are better at the end of the week, congrats! you've tested your response to light load and your joint tolerated it - that's the on-ramp back towards short bouts of climbing with protective taping. good luck!
Hi. How can I tell if I have a ligament injury or if irs something else? I lifted a very heavy box and now the lower 1/3rd of the finger is very painful. No swelling though and no redness, just some pain.
Hi, lifting injuries can injure a few different structures including the flexor tendons and pullies, so it would be worth having it examined by a hand specialist to make sure you are treating the right thing. good luck!
Hi my middle finger hurts everytime its pushed to the left (palm facing me). I tried bending it to the left at both joints and the pain seems to run on the right side of the finger (palm facing me) in between both joints. Its a sharp pain. I still have full range of motion opening and closing the finger, but even a nudge to the left will hurt, is this a collateral ligament injury? Should i see a doctor or a physiotherapist? Thank you!
While it does sound like a collateral ligament injury, if it was traumatic and happened suddenly, generally speaking a trip to the doc first is best; if it came on gradually then physio would be reasonable. Good luck!
Hey there and thx for the question! We break down our taping by stages of healing. Buddy taping is absolutely essential the first acute stage and possibly the early regenerative phase and every climber should know how to do it in case something happens at the crag or gym. Watch out for a quick vid on this sometime soon...
Hi, my right hand middle finger has been hurting around the knuckle for about a week. I don’t remember doing anything in particular and it’s come on slowly and slowly gotten worse. It’s the outside (ring finger side) it’s a little red and swollen. I can move it fully, I can climb normally, it only really hurts when touched or pressed. Does this sound like a collateral ligament injury? I’m not really sure if to see someone or who to see because it doesn’t hurt most of the time, but I also don’t want to ignore it and make it worse
sorry to hear about your finger! red and swollen generally means something more superficial so it'd be worth screening with a doc first to make sure it's not an infection or anything troublesome. Once cleared, generally speaking little bruises and contusions can take some time to settle down. I'd personally take a brief pause on climbing and switch to support/TLC mode till it clears up, hopefully quickly. good luck!
As a sports therapist that tapes athletes regularly, depending on what type of tape we are using, we are taught not to consecutively wrap around the injury because we run the risk of creating a tourniquette effect which can disrupt blood flow to the limb/ joint / digit. Is this something that is different in climbing taping? Or are you carefully taping wiht less tension to avoid this?
yes exactly, climbers will tape for the duration of the session and then will remove it, and we'll modify the tension to avoid the tourniquette effect - it's pretty easy to do with the fingers, very low risk. thx for watching!
Taping starts at 9:29. Cheers.
You're a hero :)
THANKyou!!!
I climbed a 5.11 on sight today and injured my finger. I've healed other ligament injuries in the past but never in my fingers. I had no idea where to start. This video was super helpful and I really appreciated the article and that you explain the science. I like to understand my injuries so I can attend to them better. Thanks again and I'll be tuning in again for more learning.
thanks for the feedback! hope to see you back again
How long did it take to heal for you?
This video was amazing!! wish Id watched this the first time I tore my a2. You should make a video on meniscus recovery, I tore mine 15mo ago and it feels like it will just be wobbly forever ;(
Great info, I practice BJJ and this def applies to what we do.
Great video. How do I tape the lowest collateral ligament? As the webbing of the finger gets in the way. I injured my index finger and my physio (a climber) said it was the collateral ligament at the bottom of the finger. It's been five weeks and I'm only starting to see noticeable improvement in the last few days. It's still tender to touch but is notably better. I was taping in a buddy way, to the finger next to it, as this reduced the pain when my index finger was pushed sideways. My GP said a scan wouldn't really show anything so she said to just listen to the physio.
Thx for watching! The best tape I've seen for this problem is pretty involved. You'd make tape anchors around both your palm and your index finger and make a functional tape support to stabilize from both sides by adding diagonal strips from both directions. A good alternative would be to have a hand therapist mock up a thermoplastic support that holds that finger in place but that makes it hard to use. Good luck with your healing!
@@focusrehab Your video was extremely helpful, including the science. Yay, science!!! My son is a HS wrestler and recently tore his collateral ligament on the lowest joint of the index finger. Any chance you can post of video of how to do this "involved" taping??? Ortho suggested only budding taping, but that doesn't seem nearly sufficient for the kind of stress wrestling puts on the joint. Thanks for considering!
Thank you for the video, thanks for the journal too
Excellent review of the current literature which is always appreciated. This is an awesome video that explains the anatomy instead of just jumping into a "here's what to do."
Given the limited blood flow to tendons/ligaments, is there anything that can facilitate healing? Will ring massagers or similar products stimulate blood flow to the area in a meaningful way that promotes accelerated healing?
thanks for watching, and great question! short answer - i'd consider adding some kind of tool assisted treatment, whether it's a true Gua Sha type instrument (on which much of the current PT specific tools, graston, rockblades etc are founded) or possibly the ring massagers. Here's a nice article summarizing that approach. www.e-jer.org/journal/view.php?number=2013600339. I haven't seen studies specific to ligaments but would consider using this approach with care - I'd pay particular attention to timing and matching the depth, intensity and volume of treatment to the tissue injury severity and stage of healing. Good luck!
@@focusrehab Thanks so much for the reply and linked article! It looks like in their approach they use IASTM, stretching, conditioning, and icing. I appreciate the direction and providing some literature. Thank you!
I got this injury from doing jiu jitsu. thanks for the video!
Best teaching and explaining video thank you!
Thanks for the great explaination Burt! What is better for athritis climber: My Doc suggested buddy taping ... so I'm confused ...
Great video!
How do I tape my middle finger and ring finger for synovitis capsulitis
Thanks for the video! I have a collateral ligament injury and good info is hard to come by (so much of the info is about pulleys!). I was dubious about the 12+ minutes, but ended up really appreciating all the details (and I am also a scientist, so fully support your sponsor). Unfortunately, I am having a hard time getting my Dr to understand climbing, so would appreciate your perspective. An MRI shows "chronic partial tearing" on the PIP collateral ligament of my middle finger. Is this a case where I really should take weeks or months off from climbing? Or would gentle climbing (with your taping method) be better for strong healing? I am already out of the swelling phase by several weeks, and worry that full rest will only lead to reinjury as soon as I start climbing again.
Hey Kristi! glad this was helpful! that chronic appearing tissue could mean multiple past acute-on-chronic events - little retears that kickstart the healing cycle again before it's complete. Generally speaking, with something chronic I would start more precisely with a loading strategy using light finger resistance bands and trainers and work up in force gradually until the trainer doesn't produce post activity swelling and/or pain/stiffness. then I would try short bouts of easy climbing and go from there. I do remote consultations too if there's ever a need or interest. good luck!
Focus Physical Therapy thank you!
Wow this is exactly what hurts! I started climbing every day going from zero to six days a week and now I am forced to rest.
Thanks for this video! I injured my finger collateral ligament maybe 3 to 4 years ago and it has never recovered properly (some days when I wipe the windows I still tweak it and it hurts). It feels stiff and sore after a hard climbing session but doesn't significantly impact my climbing. Given it has been such a long time, will taping it still be helpful to prevent further injury / reduce stiffness and soreness?
Thanks for the question! Generally speaking, taping offloads those ligaments to a degree (depending on how comprehensively and tightly it is applied) so it should be helpful still even this long after your injury. Just ask any ball sports athlete who tapes their ankles before a game even years after an injury - what I love is that if it doesn't feel right, it's easy to take off and no harm done. Just not so tight it blocks blood flow of course. Good luck!
I'm in a very similar boat! I have a collateral tweak on my middle finger, middle joint. I initially took 3 months off, the did light hangboardind buddy taped for light climbing for about 5 months. Finally started going outside and would h-tape, which seemed to help. But it's definitely still there, feels stuff/tender after a hard session (kind of frustrating after taking so much time off)... have you tried this method of taping? How did it work/feel for you? I'll definitely try this taping method next session.
@@douglystyles I prefer the Z taping method over the H tape for collateral ligaments specifically because I feel I can control those lateral forces better. You'll want to be pretty confident in the diagnosis to 'just' use the Z method - if there's even a remote chance the pulley and/or tendon is involved I would actually consider doubling both these methods - very easy to H tape first with one piece, then layer a Z on top for bomber stability. The time frame to still feel stiffness is very normal for these injuries - depending on a climber's age it could take even 8 months or more before you won't notice it. Good luck!
@@focusrehab Thanks for the info! Just to be safe I'll double it up today. Look forward to seeing how it feels!
@@focusrehab just as a quick follow-up, had a good session and climbed hard on my moonboard. Significantly less pain and stiffness after the session! Thanks again!
Hi, I see you did the tape for the top joint. Im assuming do the same tape job for the knuckle if that's where the tear is? Also, if I need a little more support, maybe do this tape job and add on buddy taping? thanks so much for the video. Very helpful.
Hey Cassie, absolutely you can do this for the proximal joint as well, same technique. For sure buddy taping will help too if you really need to protect an acute injury. Thx for watching!
Which tape is this?
Thanks for the video! New sub for you for sure! Unfortunately I think I have been suffering this injury over the past year but recently it has become more agitated. I've taken about 1 month off from climbing and when I returned it seemed like it was right where I left it. Immobilization has not seemed to help. It's really the specific holds that put pressure on the inside of my ring DIP. I went to a sports doctor, got an MRI and nada. She recommended immobilization. My question is... what is the milestone for moving from phase 1>>2? I'm still able to induce a pain response by prodding it, I assume that's a good indicator that it's still fresh. Thanks!
Hi Sean, glad it was helpful! Generally I would agree with you and give it more time. If there was no additional trauma and the test climbs weren't too intense and it still hurt, it'd be reasonable to wait till the superficial tenderness subsided and then try a week of easy friction massage and ROM exercises a couple times a day for 1-2 minutes at a time. If things are better at the end of the week, congrats! you've tested your response to light load and your joint tolerated it - that's the on-ramp back towards short bouts of climbing with protective taping. good luck!
Hi. How can I tell if I have a ligament injury or if irs something else? I lifted a very heavy box and now the lower 1/3rd of the finger is very painful. No swelling though and no redness, just some pain.
Hi, lifting injuries can injure a few different structures including the flexor tendons and pullies, so it would be worth having it examined by a hand specialist to make sure you are treating the right thing. good luck!
Hi my middle finger hurts everytime its pushed to the left (palm facing me). I tried bending it to the left at both joints and the pain seems to run on the right side of the finger (palm facing me) in between both joints. Its a sharp pain. I still have full range of motion opening and closing the finger, but even a nudge to the left will hurt, is this a collateral ligament injury? Should i see a doctor or a physiotherapist? Thank you!
While it does sound like a collateral ligament injury, if it was traumatic and happened suddenly, generally speaking a trip to the doc first is best; if it came on gradually then physio would be reasonable. Good luck!
@@focusrehab thank you!
Science ftw!!!
thanks!
How about buddy taping?
Hey there and thx for the question! We break down our taping by stages of healing. Buddy taping is absolutely essential the first acute stage and possibly the early regenerative phase and every climber should know how to do it in case something happens at the crag or gym. Watch out for a quick vid on this sometime soon...
Hi, my right hand middle finger has been hurting around the knuckle for about a week. I don’t remember doing anything in particular and it’s come on slowly and slowly gotten worse. It’s the outside (ring finger side) it’s a little red and swollen. I can move it fully, I can climb normally, it only really hurts when touched or pressed. Does this sound like a collateral ligament injury? I’m not really sure if to see someone or who to see because it doesn’t hurt most of the time, but I also don’t want to ignore it and make it worse
sorry to hear about your finger! red and swollen generally means something more superficial so it'd be worth screening with a doc first to make sure it's not an infection or anything troublesome. Once cleared, generally speaking little bruises and contusions can take some time to settle down. I'd personally take a brief pause on climbing and switch to support/TLC mode till it clears up, hopefully quickly. good luck!
As a sports therapist that tapes athletes regularly, depending on what type of tape we are using, we are taught not to consecutively wrap around the injury because we run the risk of creating a tourniquette effect which can disrupt blood flow to the limb/ joint / digit. Is this something that is different in climbing taping? Or are you carefully taping wiht less tension to avoid this?
yes exactly, climbers will tape for the duration of the session and then will remove it, and we'll modify the tension to avoid the tourniquette effect - it's pretty easy to do with the fingers, very low risk. thx for watching!