It’s all fine if it’s giving glory for God. It’s all about agenda. If it’s just done to create an emotional experience where we can say “look we’ve just brought down the power of the Holy Ghost,” we are just deceiving ourselves. Real change in our hearts and lives flows from a true encounter with the living God, not how emotional we felt. Test your fruits.
I’m so tired of the ‘emotionalism’ argument coming from some Christian movements. God created us in His image. He has emotions. Emotions are beautiful and help us connect deeply with the Father. He also created us to experience pleasure. We are made in the image of God. He experiences pleasure. Music and praising Him is pleasurable!! In His image we are made.
"Ambient music background" sounds like the generic, ethereal mood music that is played in shopping malls, department stores and supermarkets to encourage a pleasant atmosphere conducive to spending.
I feel like you did address the first submission somewhat in your recent video where you talked about how some Pentecostals have a flawed theology of worship and music. This was good too. I personally feel convicted (were I ever asked to make decisions regarding corporate worship) that music is great, but we should let prayer be prayer and so on with other parts of the service. It’s not necessary for music to be mixed in to help those things be more spiritual or impactful. If someone praying has less impact than someone praying with background music, then we don’t understand the power of prayer.
When someone has a concern about a prayer that is underplayed and cites "that it's emotional manipulation" I would ask them should I refrain from playing "minor chords" when we sing our hymns too?..as those pesky manipulative minor chords often communicate sad emotions. And should we also ask the pastor to refrain from using any changes in pitch, timbre or amplitude of his voice when he preaches or when reading from God's word as he will be emotionally manipulating us? And when Jesus wept at Lazarus's tomb, I guess they should have told Him to stop crying as He certainly is manipulating those present by displaying His emotions.
Whenever a preacher starts talking and getting all almost crying-like, it never fails that an emotional keyboard sound comes on. Reminds me of a motivational speaker in a movie lol!
I was watching a RUclipsr who makes modern music sound like contemporary worship songs. It’s actually pretty good and I like it. Like “when the worship bands listens to too much YellowCard,” etc. I bring this up because, in the comments, I regularly see people say “I’m no longer Christian, but I love the way worship music makes me feel.” This honestly freaks me out to see them say that. I think you’re spot on that our emotions should flow from the scriptural truth of the music, and not from the musical devices themselves. Because how on Earth is scriptural worship music going to make a non-believer feel good? It should be well done of course, but should not give solace to one who does not believe what it’s saying. The third verse of It Is Well With My Soul brings me to tears each time I sing it, but wouldn’t make an atheist feel anything. They would be offended if anything. “My sin, oh the bliss, of this glorious thought! My sin, not in part, but the whole Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more! Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, o my soul!”
I am curious what you think of worship music in general? I guess I don’t understand why spoken word over music is different than singing words over music. Our church does a lot of corporate reading over music and speakers that lead communion while music plays, or praying with pads in the background and I fail to understand why removing a melodic element would elicit such a strong intolerance to the practice.
If the Spirit of God during worship does not move you to emotions, then maybe something is wrong with you. Music is not the culprit here. What's the intention of the worship leader / music / atmoshpere or talk? If music is the problem, then maybe you shouldn't even "sing" at church, because "singing" in itself is also music and music elicits emotions and sets an "atmosphere." And I get it, sometimes people talk too long and kills the moment. That's where they need to learn to keep it simple and focus on Christ. It shouldn't be a 5 minute devotion in between songs cuz yeah, we know ppl like that it gets super annoying. Some churches don't even have music instruments. So how far back do you want to go?
You've usually got some good points Spencer. I think this one was a fail. First of all the question was of course loaded....the questioner has made various assumptions here....that a ministry using ambient music is not using scripture in that environment....sorry yes we are "heart driven" as humans (the use of the word "emotion" is loaded). That's the way we are. I agree we need to use our hearts and minds interchangeably and not just drift off and believe we are spiritual when we "feel it". The truth is that worship in your home church is most likely very "controlled". I probably wouldn't enjoy it :), simply because we need all our faculties activated in worship and not just one or the other. Yes it's true, there are some worship publishers that have over-used visual or audio effects....but I'm surprised to find that even some of the publishers that I DISLIKE by default have actually published really amazing WORD-BASED worship songs. God even uses them :) to many of our suprise! Just because any one of us doesn't agree with a certain stream of worship does not mean God respects our opinion more than that of others.
God cares and respects everyone's emotions and cares. The word of God tells us what, why, and how. We speak/declare through words from the mouth. Whether it's talking, preaching, praising, and singing. A thought without speaking it is just a thought. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the word of God can't be denied. How do you interpret music? Fast, slow, upbeat, spiritual sounding? It leaves much room for questionable interpretation or human ideology. I would say that it is important to hear what words are used to understand what a song or music is saying in the Church. They tell the story.
I hear and understand what you’re saying, especially quoting scripture in between songs, of course, that is essential when leading worship. However.. I also believe there are tools that exist that are provided to add layers of sound to enhance the worship experience, like when an orchestra joins a worship team or choir (if that were possible) thus there are ambient pads/strings that have reverb effects that make it sound “ambient” but not necessarily used to entertain but rather to enhance. What it comes down to is, if you as the worship leader are filled with the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, you as vessel, submitting to God, when choosing songs (old or new) hymns or songs.. that pave the way for the Word of God.. you can be instrumental in connecting the church with God, whether you play straight piano or use pads or patches, accompanied with whatever tools provided in modern worship, it’s all meaningless if you as the worship leader doesn’t have Gods anointing. You can’t give out what you don’t have. If the intention is to emotionally manipulate then it’s wrong, but to use tools that consist of so called ambient sounds isn’t necessarily wrong if you’re intention is guided by the Holy Spirit through the Word as you exhort.
Music is meant to be about emotions. If the music is not invoking emotions, you know what that’s called? BAD MUSIC. It’s not emotional manipulation. People are just perpetual victims
It’s an ego thing. Worship is mostly showtime. I need Jesus more so I checked out of the entire thing. Read the word. Pray the word. And do the word. The rest is mankind impressing himself… or someone else. If it all went away tomorrow, would your relationship with Christ be derailed? Let them have it. Love Jesus more than some Americanized star studded mock up of discipleship. You will find you don’t need this anyway. You need Him.
It’s all fine if it’s giving glory for God. It’s all about agenda. If it’s just done to create an emotional experience where we can say “look we’ve just brought down the power of the Holy Ghost,” we are just deceiving ourselves. Real change in our hearts and lives flows from a true encounter with the living God, not how emotional we felt.
Test your fruits.
I’m so tired of the ‘emotionalism’ argument coming from some Christian movements. God created us in His image. He has emotions. Emotions are beautiful and help us connect deeply with the Father. He also created us to experience pleasure. We are made in the image of God. He experiences pleasure. Music and praising Him is pleasurable!! In His image we are made.
"Ambient music background" sounds like the generic, ethereal mood music that is played in shopping malls, department stores and supermarkets to encourage a pleasant atmosphere conducive to spending.
I feel like you did address the first submission somewhat in your recent video where you talked about how some Pentecostals have a flawed theology of worship and music. This was good too. I personally feel convicted (were I ever asked to make decisions regarding corporate worship) that music is great, but we should let prayer be prayer and so on with other parts of the service. It’s not necessary for music to be mixed in to help those things be more spiritual or impactful. If someone praying has less impact than someone praying with background music, then we don’t understand the power of prayer.
When someone has a concern about a prayer that is underplayed and cites "that it's emotional manipulation" I would ask them should I refrain from playing "minor chords" when we sing our hymns too?..as those pesky manipulative minor chords often communicate sad emotions. And should we also ask the pastor to refrain from using any changes in pitch, timbre or amplitude of his voice when he preaches or when reading from God's word as he will be emotionally manipulating us? And when Jesus wept at Lazarus's tomb, I guess they should have told Him to stop crying as He certainly is manipulating those present by displaying His emotions.
Whenever a preacher starts talking and getting all almost crying-like, it never fails that an emotional keyboard sound comes on. Reminds me of a motivational speaker in a movie lol!
Super appreciate you addressing this!
I was watching a RUclipsr who makes modern music sound like contemporary worship songs. It’s actually pretty good and I like it. Like “when the worship bands listens to too much YellowCard,” etc. I bring this up because, in the comments, I regularly see people say “I’m no longer Christian, but I love the way worship music makes me feel.” This honestly freaks me out to see them say that.
I think you’re spot on that our emotions should flow from the scriptural truth of the music, and not from the musical devices themselves. Because how on Earth is scriptural worship music going to make a non-believer feel good? It should be well done of course, but should not give solace to one who does not believe what it’s saying.
The third verse of It Is Well With My Soul brings me to tears each time I sing it, but wouldn’t make an atheist feel anything. They would be offended if anything.
“My sin, oh the bliss, of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part, but the whole
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more!
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, o my soul!”
"Worship in Spirit and Truth".
Not 'emptional atmosphere'
I can no longer tolerate background music during someone's talking.
I just can't anymore
I am curious what you think of worship music in general? I guess I don’t understand why spoken word over music is different than singing words over music. Our church does a lot of corporate reading over music and speakers that lead communion while music plays, or praying with pads in the background and I fail to understand why removing a melodic element would elicit such a strong intolerance to the practice.
If the Spirit of God during worship does not move you to emotions, then maybe something is wrong with you. Music is not the culprit here. What's the intention of the worship leader / music / atmoshpere or talk? If music is the problem, then maybe you shouldn't even "sing" at church, because "singing" in itself is also music and music elicits emotions and sets an "atmosphere." And I get it, sometimes people talk too long and kills the moment. That's where they need to learn to keep it simple and focus on Christ. It shouldn't be a 5 minute devotion in between songs cuz yeah, we know ppl like that it gets super annoying.
Some churches don't even have music instruments. So how far back do you want to go?
You've usually got some good points Spencer. I think this one was a fail. First of all the question was of course loaded....the questioner has made various assumptions here....that a ministry using ambient music is not using scripture in that environment....sorry yes we are "heart driven" as humans (the use of the word "emotion" is loaded). That's the way we are. I agree we need to use our hearts and minds interchangeably and not just drift off and believe we are spiritual when we "feel it". The truth is that worship in your home church is most likely very "controlled". I probably wouldn't enjoy it :), simply because we need all our faculties activated in worship and not just one or the other. Yes it's true, there are some worship publishers that have over-used visual or audio effects....but I'm surprised to find that even some of the publishers that I DISLIKE by default have actually published really amazing WORD-BASED worship songs. God even uses them :) to many of our suprise! Just because any one of us doesn't agree with a certain stream of worship does not mean God respects our opinion more than that of others.
God cares and respects everyone's emotions and cares. The word of God tells us what, why, and how. We speak/declare through words from the mouth. Whether it's talking, preaching, praising, and singing. A thought without speaking it is just a thought.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the word of God can't be denied. How do you interpret music? Fast, slow, upbeat, spiritual sounding? It leaves much room for questionable interpretation or human ideology. I would say that it is important to hear what words are used to understand what a song or music is saying in the Church. They tell the story.
I hear and understand what you’re saying, especially quoting scripture in between songs, of course, that is essential when leading worship.
However.. I also believe there are tools that exist that are provided to add layers of sound to enhance the worship experience, like when an orchestra joins a worship team or choir (if that were possible) thus there are ambient pads/strings that have reverb effects that make it sound “ambient” but not necessarily used to entertain but rather to enhance.
What it comes down to is, if you as the worship leader are filled with the Holy Spirit and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, you as vessel, submitting to God, when choosing songs (old or new) hymns or songs.. that pave the way for the Word of God.. you can be instrumental in connecting the church with God, whether you play straight piano or use pads or patches, accompanied with whatever tools provided in modern worship, it’s all meaningless if you as the worship leader doesn’t have Gods anointing. You can’t give out what you don’t have. If the intention is to emotionally manipulate then it’s wrong, but to use tools that consist of so called ambient sounds isn’t necessarily wrong if you’re intention is guided by the Holy Spirit through the Word as you exhort.
Music is meant to be about emotions. If the music is not invoking emotions, you know what that’s called? BAD MUSIC.
It’s not emotional manipulation. People are just perpetual victims
It’s an ego thing. Worship is mostly showtime. I need Jesus more so I checked out of the entire thing. Read the word. Pray the word. And do the word. The rest is mankind impressing himself… or someone else. If it all went away tomorrow, would your relationship with Christ be derailed? Let them have it. Love Jesus more than some Americanized star studded mock up of discipleship. You will find you don’t need this anyway. You need Him.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying worship isn't needed or biblical? Worship is huge in the word!
I'm just confused on what you are speaking on.