Huge thanks to Sammy for being so open about his design philosophy and aero strategy! You can find his design consultancy here: www.dynamicaerosolutions.com/
Hey Kyle! I’m Minas, 15 years old working on aerodynamics and I’m working on a project about F1 in schools! Could you please tell me you thoughts about my car?
Avoid drag at all costs, downforce is worthless in a rocket car drag race. make sure your weight is on point (use lighter/heavier wood depending on what fits your design). and make sure it rolls butter smooth, with as small as possible wheels. Also you should take the floor and walls of the track into aero calculations, best to make it push away from the walls if it gets too close (simulate that scenario), but dont let that make more drag than necessary.
Hi! I am curious of where and what did you study, or if you actually did not study automotive engineering/fluid dynamics but learned by yourself as a hobby? I am doing a bachelor in automotive mechanical engineering right now, and soon it would be time for me to find a place for a master. And as far as I know in my country it is not really possible to continue in automotive field, so I would have to make it into a hobby and study something less interesting instead.
Fantastic interview. Excellent insight, and quite a nice change to hear him be so forthright and open about the design philosophy, unlike Andrew Brilliant who treats most of his designs as magical.
eeeen321 I never said he was a snob. I said he doesn't talk much about the reasoning behind his designs, because he likes to hold his cards close to his chest about it. And treats the engineering behind it as some sort of proprietary magic, and never explains beyond a very basic level of "we saw gains with that design".
Goodness, I wanted to hear about the gurney flap on the diffuser. First time I've seen one there! Heck, I'd love an entire gurney flap video, gosh darnit!
Another Great Video....I left a message at 2 mins in and by 3:30 you were answering my question....Glad he was so open to talk about something that most teams try to Hide like their life depended on it.
Dr Diasinos mentioned the sharkfin being comparable to the rudder on a ship. Do you see a possibility for an increase in car control if the shark fin would be a movable aero element?
The F1 BAR Honda Bonneville 400 speed record challenger used an active rear rudder system - doing away with the conventional rear wing altogether. Quite a while ago now, at least a decade or more.
Hey Kyle love the channel, just wondering what an aero package would look like if there were no restrictions at all. So many cars have to be designed under the design constraints of regulations and safety rules. I was wondering, if there were only a formula chassis and wheels and running gear for example, what would the most efficient aero package look like that had a balance of down-force and slipperiness?
I've noticed that many race cars in nascar, including this one, have a flat plate on the end causing pressure drag on the rear edge, this usually justified many people for the ducktail spoilers though you never spoken about ducktail spoilers, I would like to hear your input on them.
Can you add some details to those supports in the front fender above the barge board. It almost looks like they have a wing profile or at least some angle of attack.
Hey Kyle, Why are F1 cars finishes smooth instead of dimpled, in areas? I thought that dimples, like on a golf ball, add a thin lair of air that acts like ball bearings, or a boundary of air, between the air and the moving car. Pleas help me understand what I clearly don't. Thank you.
Enjoyed this video immensely ! Thanks, Kyle (KYLE.ENGINEERS) ! Would it be possible to have a video with a more in-depth analysis of this car's aerodynamics, like in most of your videos ? Thanks in advance !
Is it right to call it a rudder if it doesn't yaw? The aeronautical term for the "shark fin" is vertical stabilizor. The vertical stabilizor never moves. The big part that moves back and forth inducing a motion of yaw, is the rudder.
Gideon Okun it does effect the yaw moment of the car, so just because it doesn't have a movable aerodynamic element to it, doesn't mean it's not a rudder. As the car turns so does the fin, and there will be a high and low pressure side on the fin, which will also help the car rotate.
That is completely wrong. The purpose of a non-moving "fin" is to provide directional stability, hence the name vertical stabilizor. It is not meant to rotate the vehicle, but to keep it moving in the direction it is pointed. The purpose of a rudder is to either rotate the vehicle (change the direction it is pointed), or to move the velocity vector away from where the vehicle is pointed. Wether the fin swivels or not makes all the difference in wether it is concidered a rudder or a vertical stabilizor. I'm happy you're willing to question and think critically about knowledge claims that I (and others) make. People like you are the ones who learn the most :) Just thought I'd say that, as it may be difficult to tell that I really apreciate your comment. You know, online discussions have a tendency to appear more agressive than they really are. I know I didn't actually explain how a rudder or vertical stabilizor works, so if you can't be bothered with doing the research, but you want me to elaborate just tell me.
Wow, geek fight!! Fellas, fellas, in the video Sammy says that it is "like a rudder" he is breaking it down into lay speak so us year 10 drop out, knuckle draggers can sort of get an idea of what is happening. So "like a rudder" not "it IS a rudder" capich??
Well thought, sir. It could definitly be the case, I am aware. I posted my original comment purely for the sake of discussion and as an open question, and because I've wanted to let people know the difference between rudder and vertical stabilizor, this being a nice opportunity to do so. I'm not trying to criticize or talk negatively of Dr Diasinos, in fact, I think he did a fantastic job explaining the aerodynamics of the RP968 :D In responce to your statement, I want to question wether a professional aerodynamicist should use accurate scientific language rather than simplified informal language. Wouldn't inaccurate language from people of higher authority lead to individuals developing false definitions and spreading of misinformation? Finally, I'm having a hard time determining the reason behind your "flamboyant" comment. I can't identify if you have a really good sence of humor, forgot to read one of my comments or if you are frustrated (can be a bit challenging to desipher, concidering this is the internet). If it is the latter option feel free to tell me what it is. I would love to help you out if there is anything I can do to make you feel better :)
One thing I've been wondering is that do the strakes on the diffuser help with making the diffuser make more downforce in yaw? In other words if you have more strakes is the diffuser less sensitive to yaw?
From the start, your at the limits of your own race fan nerd knowledge, then at 2:30 we go from nerd knowledge to phd, then at 3:10 it’s from phd to F1 Aero Jedi master.
I would have liked to have seen a better shot of the rear wing. It appears to have very little offset between the upper and lower elements.....like the are almost stacked, vertically. The darkness of the carbon and shadows from the low lighting, really obscure it. How are the rear elements arranged and what are their dimensions?
Another thing I would like to know, (I know....hard to get that info) is the percentage of effect for each component.....rear diffuser, rear wing, front wing, barge boards...... I understand they work together so exact numbers are hard to ascertain.....not to mention percentages change as the velocities increase...
Elmar Dylong there's this new frontwing design that has the edges of the wings perpendicular to the rounded bodywork at the corner of the bumper having direct flow over them instead of angled when the edge of the front wing is facing the direction of the front of the car. More downforce, less drag, more efficient.
Hammerhead shark (splitter/vortices) streamlining, look to nature, down force by whale tails, strikes (manta Ray) Canards (Wahoo/King Mackerel) rudders(sail fish)
Porpoising is a result of instability, therefore it is countered by giving the vehicle positive pitch stability (Center of pressure slightly behind Center of gravity)
so i just got a 1x3 foot carbon fiber ply 3k and the resins and pva im gunna mess around with it. i want to get big into this stuff any suggestions. a friend told me to give some stuff away when i get better to build my name.
Notverygoodatall LMP is on another level but something like Super GT / DTM would be more of a reference I guess. Considering the costs it's even more wicked.
What you also need to put into consideration is the fact that race cars are designed to last the whole season and long races compared to a time attack car which is optimised and fully focused on lap time only and decent reliability compared to a DTM , LMP1 or touring car
WTAC Pro cars like RP968 are significantly faster than DTM, they turn times within a second of an A1GP car, and about 8 seconds off an F1 car, only they aren't on slicks. If they were allowed to run slicks their one lap pace would probably be about the same as an LMP1. Just if you ran them for 3 laps at a time they'd probably blow up.
was thinking the same. but it would be actually probably very onesided. a 919 evo would bet this this thing timewise by quiet a margin. but this rp968 is still an awesome car.
Haydrean I'm a wog too and after being bullied at school I still get sensitive about it... Yeah I jacked up at your comment because I find it derogatory even when used as a throw away statement... The guy knows his stuff and I felt he deserves compliments rather than commenting on his speech or look.... The car is epic and we should celebrate his work rather than make his interview about nationality.... We're all Aussies regardless of our ancestry... Peace man.
Huge thanks to Sammy for being so open about his design philosophy and aero strategy! You can find his design consultancy here: www.dynamicaerosolutions.com/
Hey Kyle! I’m Minas, 15 years old working on aerodynamics and I’m working on a project about F1 in schools! Could you please tell me you thoughts about my car?
Avoid drag at all costs, downforce is worthless in a rocket car drag race. make sure your weight is on point (use lighter/heavier wood depending on what fits your design). and make sure it rolls butter smooth, with as small as possible wheels. Also you should take the floor and walls of the track into aero calculations, best to make it push away from the walls if it gets too close (simulate that scenario), but dont let that make more drag than necessary.
Strap a coffee table to the front of it and see what happens, lol.
Hi! I am curious of where and what did you study, or if you actually did not study automotive engineering/fluid dynamics but learned by yourself as a hobby? I am doing a bachelor in automotive mechanical engineering right now, and soon it would be time for me to find a place for a master. And as far as I know in my country it is not really possible to continue in automotive field, so I would have to make it into a hobby and study something less interesting instead.
Is the car's engine in the front?
But the million dollar question; At what speed will it drive upside down?
billion dollar question; will it drive upside down in reverse?
other billion dollar, on which planet can it drive upside down?
Most likely car is too heavy to do that
Define drive
It’s always upside down in Australia
F1-level vortex control on TA cars... damn.
Fantastic interview. Excellent insight, and quite a nice change to hear him be so forthright and open about the design philosophy, unlike Andrew Brilliant who treats most of his designs as magical.
LoL... I've never heard of AB acting like that. As some aero snob. Any proof of his magic snobish'ness?
eeeen321 I never said he was a snob. I said he doesn't talk much about the reasoning behind his designs, because he likes to hold his cards close to his chest about it. And treats the engineering behind it as some sort of proprietary magic, and never explains beyond a very basic level of "we saw gains with that design".
Goodness, I wanted to hear about the gurney flap on the diffuser. First time I've seen one there! Heck, I'd love an entire gurney flap video, gosh darnit!
Another Great Video....I left a message at 2 mins in and by 3:30 you were answering my question....Glad he was so open to talk about something that most teams try to Hide like their life depended on it.
Dr Diasinos mentioned the sharkfin being comparable to the rudder on a ship.
Do you see a possibility for an increase in car control if the shark fin would be a movable aero element?
Tycho Rasch it would be like back steering wheels but a lot more complicated I think,would be interesting to hear about
look up 'lady of perpetual downforce' on google, its a LeMons car that actually had a steerable rudder, from a cessna I believe
Isn't active aero not allowed in Time Attack and reason you don't see DRS systems, active rudders, etc?
The F1 BAR Honda Bonneville 400 speed record challenger used an active rear rudder system - doing away with the conventional rear wing altogether. Quite a while ago now, at least a decade or more.
Yes, but he said Airplane rudder.
This is amazing, awesome to hear Sammy share so much insight into the aero package!
Love the content. Please do more of these walk around and talk with people ‘in the know’
Beautiful aero
I'm really loving this content. Keep up the great work!
It like he ready to fly.
Mat Yaqin
It actually is like flying, just upside down.
Flying upside down has two stages: First stage is called an inverted flight, and the second stage is called a crash.
One of my favorite cars. It is really interesting. It has been around for sometime you can see the iterations.
What a cool engineer, thanks!
Dude was dropping knowledge
Hey Kyle love the channel, just wondering what an aero package would look like if there were no restrictions at all. So many cars have to be designed under the design constraints of regulations and safety rules. I was wondering, if there were only a formula chassis and wheels and running gear for example, what would the most efficient aero package look like that had a balance of down-force and slipperiness?
Great video! Thank you for posting it!
Fullllly sick bro..... Max downforce..... sick skid
Kyle, could you please make a video over the Ferrari FXX K evo's aerodynamic package, thank you.
I've noticed that many race cars in nascar, including this one, have a flat plate on the end causing pressure drag on the rear edge, this usually justified many people for the ducktail spoilers though you never spoken about ducktail spoilers, I would like to hear your input on them.
Can you add some details to those supports in the front fender above the barge board. It almost looks like they have a wing profile or at least some angle of attack.
Hey Kyle, Why are F1 cars finishes smooth instead of dimpled, in areas? I thought that dimples, like on a golf ball, add a thin lair of air that acts like ball bearings, or a boundary of air, between the air and the moving car. Pleas help me understand what I clearly don't. Thank you.
Enjoyed this video immensely !
Thanks, Kyle (KYLE.ENGINEERS) !
Would it be possible to have a video with a more in-depth analysis
of this car's aerodynamics, like in most of your videos ?
Thanks in advance !
Brilliant. More please!
Awesome video!
Very and i mean VERY intelligent man ! I want his knowledge !
Maybe now You can unlock aerodynamics of RWB Porsches? RWB extreme wide body kit became quite popular.
Wow this is georgous!
It would be cool to see active aero (directional) and torque vectoring.
All I heard was "fully sick Ulleh" does that make me a bad person... love the car.
tangles01 hahahhaa
Is it right to call it a rudder if it doesn't yaw? The aeronautical term for the "shark fin" is vertical stabilizor. The vertical stabilizor never moves. The big part that moves back and forth inducing a motion of yaw, is the rudder.
Gideon Okun KNAWLEDGE
Gideon Okun it does effect the yaw moment of the car, so just because it doesn't have a movable aerodynamic element to it, doesn't mean it's not a rudder. As the car turns so does the fin, and there will be a high and low pressure side on the fin, which will also help the car rotate.
That is completely wrong. The purpose of a non-moving "fin" is to provide directional stability, hence the name vertical stabilizor. It is not meant to rotate the vehicle, but to keep it moving in the direction it is pointed. The purpose of a rudder is to either rotate the vehicle (change the direction it is pointed), or to move the velocity vector away from where the vehicle is pointed. Wether the fin swivels or not makes all the difference in wether it is concidered a rudder or a vertical stabilizor.
I'm happy you're willing to question and think critically about knowledge claims that I (and others) make. People like you are the ones who learn the most :)
Just thought I'd say that, as it may be difficult to tell that I really apreciate your comment. You know, online discussions have a tendency to appear more agressive than they really are.
I know I didn't actually explain how a rudder or vertical stabilizor works, so if you can't be bothered with doing the research, but you want me to elaborate just tell me.
Wow, geek fight!! Fellas, fellas, in the video Sammy says that it is "like a rudder" he is breaking it down into lay speak so us year 10 drop out, knuckle draggers can sort of get an idea of what is happening. So "like a rudder" not "it IS a rudder" capich??
Well thought, sir. It could definitly be the case, I am aware. I posted my original comment purely for the sake of discussion and as an open question, and because I've wanted to let people know the difference between rudder and vertical stabilizor, this being a nice opportunity to do so. I'm not trying to criticize or talk negatively of Dr Diasinos, in fact, I think he did a fantastic job explaining the aerodynamics of the RP968 :D
In responce to your statement, I want to question wether a professional aerodynamicist should use accurate scientific language rather than simplified informal language. Wouldn't inaccurate language from people of higher authority lead to individuals developing false definitions and spreading of misinformation?
Finally, I'm having a hard time determining the reason behind your "flamboyant" comment. I can't identify if you have a really good sence of humor, forgot to read one of my comments or if you are frustrated (can be a bit challenging to desipher, concidering this is the internet). If it is the latter option feel free to tell me what it is. I would love to help you out if there is anything I can do to make you feel better :)
Great content!
Nice, I would have liked to see some numbers.
i wish he invested in a proper mic
Ever been to WTAC? It's a miracle we can hear him talking at all...
i don't think they are racing now...
Can you do a video on how the effective shape of a vehicle changes with speed?
Can you use VG's just infront of the diffuser to get away with a higher diffuser angle without separation?
Is that simple wing better than those curved that super cars have?
simply amazing
One thing I've been wondering is that do the strakes on the diffuser help with making the diffuser make more downforce in yaw? In other words if you have more strakes is the diffuser less sensitive to yaw?
Theoretically is there any reason that a radiator has to be flat? If it was shaped to bend with the aero vents and sealed wouldn't it work?
From the start, your at the limits of your own race fan nerd knowledge, then at 2:30 we go from nerd knowledge to phd, then at 3:10 it’s from phd to F1 Aero Jedi master.
Why did they choose the porsche? Off all possible platforms is there some benefit over others?
You should do a video about T-Rex motorcycle specifically Aero 3s kit
I would have liked to have seen a better shot of the rear wing. It appears to have very little offset between the upper and lower elements.....like the are almost stacked, vertically. The darkness of the carbon and shadows from the low lighting, really obscure it. How are the rear elements arranged and what are their dimensions?
Another thing I would like to know, (I know....hard to get that info) is the percentage of effect for each component.....rear diffuser, rear wing, front wing, barge boards......
I understand they work together so exact numbers are hard to ascertain.....not to mention percentages change as the velocities increase...
Wild!
Is there a video of this driving
Viktor Schauberger would love this car. ;-)
Elmar Dylong there's this new frontwing design that has the edges of the wings perpendicular to the rounded bodywork at the corner of the bumper having direct flow over them instead of angled when the edge of the front wing is facing the direction of the front of the car. More downforce, less drag, more efficient.
Thanks for the video but at one point I couldn't hear him speak due to the background noise
a little rock on the road 🛫
Hammerhead shark (splitter/vortices) streamlining, look to nature, down force by whale tails, strikes (manta Ray) Canards (Wahoo/King Mackerel) rudders(sail fish)
Awesome! Does this run the billet 4.0L Porsche engine I saw on an earlier RUclips video...?
it is intended for that car but they had oil pump problems and it didn't make it into the car this year
How do they counteract porpoising with such large diffusers?
My understanding, that's why he was talking about getting maximum diffuser effectiveness as close to the C of G as possible.
Porpoising is a result of instability, therefore it is countered by giving the vehicle positive pitch stability (Center of pressure slightly behind Center of gravity)
When you want to build an F1 car but the Boss says you have to go time attack.
That's the biggest wing I've ever seen in my life
Why do you want to house the vortices off the front wing. What is the advantage of that?
Did you know that f1 does the same thing?
Silly question but where does the breathing air come for the driver?
Basically a closed wheel formula is what it looks like to me
Your downforce has a nice car
so i just got a 1x3 foot carbon fiber ply 3k and the resins and pva im gunna mess around with it. i want to get big into this stuff any suggestions. a friend told me to give some stuff away when i get better to build my name.
Make it your obsession , take one day off a a week and you'll be way further ahead than you thought before you know it!! :-) :-)
Really cool video, but all those voices in the background were really distracting. Something to think about for the future.
Can you do the Apollo IE next please? Looks crazy as hell
www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/apollo-ie-is-a-bonkers-small-batch-hypercar/
Yes please! I was going to ask for an Aero analysis of that as well.
Circuit Porsche ? looks more like a pikes peak special to me..
neuronmind how bout both
Time attack. Built for 1 lap on street legal tyres. Aero on these cars is outrageous like pikes peak cars.
What kind of slack jawed fairy gave this video a thumbs down? You guys fucking rock!!! Please give us more!!!
Knows his stuff.
Niice!
That front wing is kinda wide..
awesome
Is it faster than Porsche LMP1?
Notverygoodatall LMP is on another level but something like Super GT / DTM would be more of a reference I guess. Considering the costs it's even more wicked.
What you also need to put into consideration is the fact that race cars are designed to last the whole season and long races compared to a time attack car which is optimised and fully focused on lap time only and decent reliability compared to a DTM , LMP1 or touring car
Lmp1 is faster than dtm, time attack cars are fast as dtm
WTAC Pro cars like RP968 are significantly faster than DTM, they turn times within a second of an A1GP car, and about 8 seconds off an F1 car, only they aren't on slicks. If they were allowed to run slicks their one lap pace would probably be about the same as an LMP1. Just if you ran them for 3 laps at a time they'd probably blow up.
Qe
Great channel. Maybe u could team up with smartereverday on a vid?
It's all fun and games until a factory 992 GT3 RS beats the top time with simple aero
World’s fastest circuit Porsche? I think we need a showdown between this and the 919 Evo.
was thinking the same. but it would be actually probably very onesided. a 919 evo would bet this this thing timewise by quiet a margin.
but this rp968 is still an awesome car.
Super cool, but I don’t see the point of having a built in bench on the front of the car
But is it road legal though?
Mihai-Ioan Mihut no
Skylake_TheDank I was joking...
Mihai-Ioan Mihut HAHAHAHA FUCKING FUNNY ASS JOKE!!! NOT!
yes, until a cop sees you.
Could be. But no
and if you get bored of racing you can always go harvest some wheat in that thing
These cars are now part car part open wheel race car. I love the speed but they look ridiculous with my mum's dinner table on the front
Curios how the fastest porche looks nothing like a porche
so wog
Haydrean I'm a wog too and after being bullied at school I still get sensitive about it... Yeah I jacked up at your comment because I find it derogatory even when used as a throw away statement... The guy knows his stuff and I felt he deserves compliments rather than commenting on his speech or look.... The car is epic and we should celebrate his work rather than make his interview about nationality.... We're all Aussies regardless of our ancestry... Peace man.
12yr olds, " this is rice". the internet "car people" really thing that every car is rice.
Is he south African?
holnrew i think he is Lebanese.
He's Australian with a middle eastern background
He's Australian with a Greek background. With that accent I would assume he is not Australian born but has lived here for many years.
It's not even a car anymore lol, more like a badly built airplane with 4 wheels