AGM + Lithium. Does it function? Does Performance Suffer? Do You need an Isolator? Answers Here.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2022
- This is a short video in regards to running Lead, Direct Parallel with LiFe.
Can you just add Lithium to your existing electrical system and still gain great performance? Do you need an Isolator? Is it better to delete the Lead completely? The answers are here.
Its never been easier to add great electrical support. Lithium is now Cheap, Easy and PLUG and PLAY. NO ISOLATOR REQUIRED.
I bought my isolator to run my first 48ah headway bank because I was told I needed it, but when I actually hooked it all up and performed my own tests I realized I don't really need it lol. Great work
Thank you. I feel isolators are just an unnecessary bottleneck and have no place in car audio.
@@gotlithium6311 What is that agm?
@@angsieverz4938 65 Series from a local battery supplier, 100Ah, the guy said Northstar makes them.
Hi.in my campervan just swapped out agm x2 115ah to a single 100ah lifepo4.one of agm gone bad.question is I want to include my agm 115ah back into system but connect to a mppt directly from a 100watt solar panel on roof of van then connect the agm to the positive bus bar .my other mppt and another 100watt panel goes to positive bus.that mppt has lifepo4 setting. My Victron dc to dc charger kicks in when do my commute 18amp hour model Orion.Will the lifepo4 try to float the agm through the system.?
So I just finished building my 48ah headway. Do I simply just run it parallel to my agm?
Bro, your videos show me how to step my game up. And I like that.
I run a headway setup with agm. Been doing this for awhile. I was concerned about the lithium bleeding into the agm so I have a disconnect be the two. Probably wouldn't need it since I drive the truck daily.good video
Def saving this for ppl that saying it cant work. I def saw fellow bass heads use both together nd not have a problem
sweet, I'll keep my kinetic agm under the hood, gonna build my headway next month 👊
I wish this topic got more views in the car audio community. Good job I like the testing. Shared.
Glad I came across your video and I’m glad I did.. just got done building a 40ah headway bank and was bout to order a isolator because I run agm under but thanks to you I’m just gone parallel it without the isolator
So how come everyone says not to mix lithium & AGM?
@@ElevatedVehicles not sure but after doing further research I decided to just do a battery delete in the front and run everything off my lithium bank
@@allaboutbass8146 which lithium did you go with that has enough CCA stored to jump the car to start it?
I've been looking to just go lithium only as well
@@ElevatedVehicles yinlong
@@allaboutbass8146 nice! Those are really good
My set up normally sits for days. I have a g65 agm and the leshin 85ah bank . I have almost identical results.
very nice
Nice test and explained things well what size is that headway?
This answers so many of my questions. Although I got a 300a alt that charges at 14.8.
I'm glad it helped alleviate some concerns! Many rumors out there about lithium being dangerous, finicky or high maintenance but none of them actually hold water. It's 2022, this stuff is as plug and play as you can get.
My 1998 toyota corolla used to do that sometimes.i dont know why it would.
Man the car audio scene will try to sell you everything under the sun..they take advantage of people with lack of knowledge and tools and credit cards.look at critical mass jl they take advantage of rich people.those subs are nothing special or magical.they act like the voicecoils are gold wound🤣🤣
@@gotlithium6311 lithium is an umbrella of types. I can assure you some lithium will absolutely make you crisp in 15sec.. deadly.. and some.. are not so dangerous, some are not dangerous at all. Well.. relatively speaking. You can saw them in half slowly and they just smile. LTO and LFP are both pretty cool not very dangerous types. Thank you for the video. I think 1amp is a manageable loss pr hour. Its just from sun down to sun up if you have a solar panel, so about 12ah lost. A small panel can put that back in every day.
I don't use my batteries for audio but I have 5 batteries in my Explorer 2 under the hood and three behind the seats 1 is a deep cycle and one is small starting battery stock alternator 130 amps I guess
Starts right up no matter how many days I let it sit and I have an Inverter I never shut off that keeps cordless batteries charged . No Special ad ons no fuses no isolator it works fine .
been doing that over three years . The Three behind the seats are even wrecking yard car batteries I plan on upgrading to Deep Cycle or maybe toss in one Lithium battery .
I have 500 ah of headway in my f150 ecoboost with over 30k watts for over 2 years. No balancer and I had them hooked with agm battery's before for months with absolutely no problem. I run no fuses for insurance purposes only..lol
Outstanding speed record on a motorized bike. You are legendary my friend.
AGM self discharges depending on age and health they can be way worse that same 4 days with an older battery can completely drain a bank also when a cell dies in the lead acid battery wich they always do you will completely drain you lithium why would u even want to risk ruining something you put so much money into it so nice to have a switch that you can disconnect you expensive battery from the others at the touch of a button for so many reasons
Everything about your comment is false, stop spreading misinformation
How is it for long term? Any draw backs so far
Will charging my lifepo4 headway bank at 14.8v instead of 14.6v cause them to degrade? If so is it substantial fast or would it be a slow process?
Headway? I will have a look. I have the mechman alternator, wrks great
Im wanting to mix my nissan leaf modules with my lifepo4 bank. Dont know if its gonna work but im fixing to try it
Awesome video, so if i habe a xs 4900 agm underhood and want to add a d4s LTO 6.0 lithium battery i dont need an isolator? Heard some say you dont need it and some say you do. Would i jus run power from my front battery to the back of a fuse block through a fuse to my lithium then back out the lithium throuhh a fuse then off to my amp? I like the smd double fuse you have that has the little bus plate on it, jus wanna make sure my alt charges that lithium to which is a mechman 320A
I added 64ah bank of headways and couldn't be happier!! Complete Factory charging system and I stay around 14v with 3500 watt amp
how many amp alt?
@@romulobello8994 I want to say it's around 180.. QX56
@@jaz97 did you leave agm under hood or just running off headway
@@lukeglavan I keep factory battery due to car still being under warranty. There is like 1-2v draw but the bank never gets below 12v. Now I wouldn't have your vehicle sit for long periods with both connected.
How long can you leave it for without worrying if it will start? What size power cable are your running to the headway?
I run my lifepo4 100ah in line with my Lead acid on a 4K system with no issues. All 4 ott wires
yep ,the chinese , others etc dont want people to know you can combine lead with lithium together, when you do this as many people with home boats have already done, lithium will do the work when not charging at night, and keep the lead up in voltage . Rule is always keep lead charged up and have same amphr and have more lead battery volume than lithium (example 2 or 3 lead batteries to every 1 lithium) . if in a structure , i would also make sure batteries are in outside inside of brick enclosure area for fire prevention.
Zero your clamp and you'll see no amperage draw. You float 1+ amp for 3 days your battery is dead, It doesn't sit there and play catch with each other passing amperage back and forth without loss.
I'm looking for headway for a 3200 watt system , what type and how many ah would i need , wish there were more options of already built ones.
Looks like a ton of work for an alternator at start up every time. 80 hours at over an amp is close to 100 amp hours. That is a significant amount of current for an hour. That is straight off cold start.
Curious to know what impedance you are running the smart3 at?
Such as all things there are pros n cons. I've had lithium tied to an agm and a xb630 ultrcap for a few yrs with no issues. The drain is even less noticeable the more capacity you have. I'm at 128ah from 256ah last summer. I love batteries so I find I have more juice than I need to run my 8kw system. It's FAR better than half a ton of AGM that is for damn sure
does that ultracap come in 24 volt?
@immrnoidall 14v the highest I've seen XS Powers ultracaps. I believe it charges at 16v
256ah is crazy for 8k dawg... I have 40ah LTO and run 5k no problem at all. My buddy has 96k on the bass but he has 800ah of LTO... you got enough juice to push 25k easy.
What model of battery is the agm?
But do you need a smart alternator because I got told you can’t run a stock alternator straight to a lithium battery
Outstanding keeping my 300 dollar supplemental AGM with my headways cells and let them do their work together.
i got 2 xp 3000 from zs power got them lastb summer aint partn with em no time soon
Yea im still on the agm wagon for now
13.2V is not rest voltage. With a 1 amp draw 13.2V battery side measured means about 30% SoC, but it could be anywhere from 10% to 80%. You just can't tell anywhere below 3.4 and above 3.0. 99% of the capacity exists across just 400-500mV. You need a much better measuring technique to be accurate enough in that range to determine SoC. It's also why nobody works it out that way. They use other methods.
What is your recommendation? should I do a front battery delete and just run lithium in the back?
@@leonelyvazquez559no reply back from mr. Noitall?
Use an isolator?
Use an isolator?
Where did you get your bars for the headways
is there a such thing as too much battery ? i got a deal on a 100ah limitless lithium, which is going to be overkill on my setup, can that affect the electrical system in a negative way ?
I feel like it’s going to pull from whatever has the highest C rate first. What do you think? I’m talking about while doing a burp or planing music. Not talking about while resting.
What is a headway bank? What does that mean?
Would 96ah of headway run my vehicle and my 3k watt amp?
Is that taramps smart 3k? How much draw does it do on a daily application? 4ohm wired? Looking at getting a smart 3k seeing what ither peoples daily battery banks are..
Do you have a BMS connected to the battery bank? Is one needed? Thanks.
After the test tone the Headway recharged around 3a but the AGM/Headway recharged around 5. What causes that? Seems like the Headway would've came back faster if it was getting 5a instead of 3?
The amp clamp was only reading Discharge current, it's not clamped on the same line as the feed to the lithium. The amp draw difference was from the amp fans running in the AGM/Lithium test and not the Lithium only test.
i drive 65 miles one way to work, where the car is parked most of the day in an environment that can get to 125 fahrenheit. my concern is the operating temps of headway lithium, in a trunk of a car in that kind of environment are they going to be okay or should i stick to AGM?
I live in Las Vegas and have 32ah of Headway cells. I usually keep a window or two cracked but summer temps outside go above 115*F a lot. No problems so far.
Can i use led acid to lifepo4 to LTO all together? Is it save?
Do these headway lithium batteries need to be charged or can they be used once assembles without charging. I am going to build a 32ah also if charging do I need to use a special lithium charger like xs power or down4sound?
If the assembled unit is above 12.8v, it's perfectly fine to just throw them in the vehicle and let the alternator charge them up.
rc charger work and can be got cheap
My question is, i have a 64 AH headway bank. i also have agm under hood and XS Power d7500 in trunk. can i run headway lithium with 2 agm batteries for max performance. (agm under hood & agm in trunk)
i have 0 gauge and h/o alt very clean
Yes.i have 3 batteries plus a 96ah lifepo setup.all in parallel. About a yr and a half...no.issues.2 brazilian 8ks for bass...
Whats the song being played on the dyno ?
I got a question. So I hook up the headway to the front battery? It’s stock battery and I got a stock alt but I’m putting the big 3 in as well. It’s a 48ah headway bank. Or do I need a agm aftermarket battery?
You gunna want a agm
I already have six XS power d7500s in the rear. Do you think i would benefit from adding a headway bank next the the agms? I just want better voltage. Im dropping to 11v 10k rms clamped stock 120a alt. I can get a bigger alternator too just curious
I would deff get a high output alt then you should be fine with the 6 batts I would imagine I have 5krms 1 xs d6500 300 amp alt and I only drop to 13v sometimes 12 so I'm gonna get second batt when I'm driving itll only drop to 13 v
Can you connect that headway bank to a down4sound lto then to the agm under the hood and then to the ho alternator?
Answer. Stereo guys will say go right ahead. Electricians and engineers would say dont. My dad was an engineer, and im an electrician. If the person can not explain the system, then do not listen to their advice.
Can u help out an old school newbie?? I've ALWAYS been a basshead, but im old school. Im trying my best to get into ALL this newer stuff, but im struggling. Would u be willing to help me out with sum pointers and whatnot?
Wouldn't you want the voltage drop to be high 13's low 14's?
Yes
My Subaru takes its time charging ,I wish I knew what it was , change the alt and no difference ,if I drive it a long distance it charges ok ,I'm using a24 cell headway Bank
define "takes it's time charging"? If it don't need to charge it won't charge.
So I bought a 200ah lossigy battery is the bms gonna pop when I turn on a high amp stereo say an 8k taramps?
Without knowing exactly what BMS is inside and what its set up to do, I really cannot say. It shouldn't damage anything but if it's limited to 1c discharge, it could disconnect the battery until load is removed.
ok in my setup i have 2 evl 15s and same amp (taramps smart 3k) with a huge AGM and an 16 cell headway. the orientatation is as follows, Stock batt i thing an agm to the secondary huge agm to the lith to the amp. Should i remove the second agm?
I wouldn't. Might as well keep all the reserve you can
I noticed a change in performance when I went to headway only I was droping to 13.5 with agm and when I did headway only I only dropped to like 14.2
Running headway with agm what about replacing athe agm with a ultra cap bank.
I'm doing this tomorrow. Have 168ah of headway and a d3400 under the hood. Taking out the d3400 and putting in the xspower sb500 34r tomorrow
So I'm not going to ruin my 130amp alt if I through a 16ah lithium headway bank as a second battery in the back of my car?
Nope you will be fine
Wondering how if you are pulling 1 amp for 80 hours isn’t that 80ah? 35 more than the 45 ah battery? How does that work
My thoughts exactly. He claimed his meter was showing about 1.25A draw over 80 hrs = 100A from a 48A battery. Nup! Something wrong there.
@
GotLithium? is headway lithium really worth it, if the voltage drops just like AGMs under musical load ?
Oh it's absolutely worth it. Headway is present in both tests in the video, this is only showing that the AGM isn't a Load hindering lithium performance.
Without the Headway, Voltage is Deep in the 12s on music and high 10s on the Tone. Massive difference.
I know this is old, but I recently got a superbeast. I converted it to 12v and it's 96ah. It made a huge difference for me. I mean before my tach needle would move a good 500rpm and you could actually feel the car lurch at lower rpms and idle. I have no more of that with the headway.
@@SouthwestD313 Very nice. I am still in the middle of installing the full system including a converted superbeast, but pretty stoked to see it all come together and see the look on my wives face when the bass tries to peal it off 🤣
Good test results, now about that filthy dirty engine bay....😂
lol that's clean for dirt roads haha
@@gotlithium6311so they same use isolater if u have money and then sfb later?
Not sure how your set up is if I am seeing your set up correctly you have two wires going the back if so you have to clamp both wires to see the amperage draw at your alternator other than that you’re only seeing half.
SO ARE YOU RUNNIN POWER WIRE FROM ALT TO AGM TO BANK OR DO YOU HAVE YOUR ALT TO AGM AND SEPERATE WIRE FROM ALT TO LITHIUM
yes. alt to agm then to headway. my agm has a sky high 4 spot distro block under the hood that parallels everything there. simple and effective
Would running a separate set of pos and neg to lithium battery in the back from the alt result in even better current flow then the alternative to agm, then from agm to the lithium in the back?
No. Lithium should rest at 13.6 v fully charged and the agm rests at 12.8 v fully charges. That difference will greatly shorten the life of both
Insignificantly..
Lithium does not rest at 14.6v. That's when the car is running. Resting is when the car is off. They usually rest around 13.3 if you also have an AGM. Go check you lithium right now with your car off. It won't say 14.6 unless your charging high using say cmax. But not with headway
@@grady.stu.8300 13.6 resting voltage and 12.7 volts still are not compatible
@@Juggernaut-fg2upwell you got ppl that been doing it for years w/o an issue. Everything sounds good on paper or word of mouth until your actually try it.
@@HNiCDuke it's not going to explode or anything drastic. But it will reduce the life of both. I personally don't mix battery technologies thats just me
What battery should I get for a 15000 W system ?.
I run 2, 48ah lithium banks and a 4800agm battery in the rear. Another AGM under the hood and about to add a 2nd battery under the hood (2016 yukon xl denali)
Depends on charging voltage.
Can I run my cyber 12 in the back w an AGM under the hood?
I'm not 100% sure what exact cells they use in that now, but if its LiFePo4 as they say, then Yes.
@kodyburrows how’d it go? I have my cyber 12k coming in
I see the point you are making for the different batteries. BUT you are killing your already weak alternator. I have a 4,000 watt RMS system with a 1v drop pulling 180amps @ idle of 850rpm. At 1800rpm i get 398a and no drop in voltage @ 250a pull. Just 2 agm batteries 1 mechman alt. 14.6-14.8 continuous. Plus you have a gremlin eating power somewhere from the front battery to the rear 0:39 vs 1:23
I would like to see this test done not at idle.. good video though
Do you need a BMS on the lithium?
In a car audio application, No, as that limits current. BMS no, but some sort of Balancer, Yes.
@@gotlithium6311 thanks 👍. About to build my 64ah headway soon. Appreciate it.
What about cmax is there a big difference
Completely different chemistry, totally different rules. Cmax is LiMn high voltage cells, and those you would want to run by themselves charging 15v+.
@@gotlithium6311 Cmax is NMC, FYI
I thought I couldn't mix lithium & AGM?
Cant mix lto lithium and agm. You have lots of ignorant people with no experience giving advice on youtube and facebook
What size alt was run here?
If it's a factory alternator it doesn't really matter.
Can I run my lifpo4 with my AcDelco smf(sealed maintenance free) starting battery?
I think I'll live without music and save my bowed Lithium 🤗
What size alt
Stock 130a, and by stock I mean from 1998 lol. It's definitely a lil worn out.
@@gotlithium6311 much faster rebound then my 90amp lol
Okay so it not going to ruin my alt which is 130a stock. If I make my own 16ah 12v headway lithium bank. Some people say it draws to much current but this video proves otherwise??
@@brandonellis6260 no it will not
Nice looking setup. Unless i was sponsored i would not have SMD all over my stuff. Heat shrink too. No thanks. I guess thats supposed to give some basshead street cred. Not in my book. Hes more of a poser to me. Good video though.
Do not run a damn agm with lithium they both have different discharge rates you will burn the post off the agm
Why don't you put a 25ah lithium under the hood 🤔 problem solved.
Don't ever put lithium underhood! You'll then have a whole new problem that will solve itself quick!
You don’t want lithium under the hood due to temperature. Could cause a fire. Unless I’m wrong.
@@flip7491 it will kill the cells and will blow the vent. Fire isn't guaranteed but money down the drain is. I recommend super cap bank underhood.
Lithium doesnt like heat specifically 140F and above.
@@charlespetersonii6989 lol glad you get your information from other people who don't know themselves what does and doesn't work.
You are doing videos that all these other jerk offs should be doing . Real I fo real life testing and it's shit us diy audio guys need to know am I wasting space or time wiring In with my agm or not anyway thanks for the info so important for guys like us . BTW I should make a video for everyone but my isolator was a choke point and when I finally ditched there were decent gains . So anyone running lifepo4 and agm ditch the isolator