Troyes - Playthrough & Review (Shelf of Opportunity)
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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Welcome to the start of our monthly "Shelf of Opportunity" segment where we play through a game off of our shelf that was voted for by our wonderful Patreon community! This is "Troyes," a board game designed by Sébastien Dujardin, Xavier Georges, Alain Orban, and published by Pearl Games in 2010. This video includes a rules overview.
JUMP:
00:00 - Rules Overview
17:59 - Playthrough Start - Round 1
29:21 - Round 2
38:56 - Round 3
48:29 - Round 4
55:34 - End-Game Scoring
01:00:06 - Review
BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/7...
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I really like how laid back they are. They aren't forcing any terrible jokes or forcing themselves to be "entertaining".
Well yeah, I think most people would agree forced jokes aren't funny. I'm curious if you feel any other noteworthy channels are doing that or if you're perceiving people who are funny to be forceful about it. Personally, I really enjoy the Dice Tower (which this channel has collaborated with previously) and I don't find their jokes forced.
I totally agree. No noicing, laughing aso. They are really good teaching how to play also.
Because most board game channels are turning into bad attempts at improv comedy rather rather than just demonstrating the game. This channel and AntLabs are the best at just simply showing the game.
My favorite game of all time. The fact that the designers are Belgian too is a great bonus :)
Hi fellow Belgian!
Bias
Got this game some time ago because I loved the art. It has been living on my shelf ever since as I thought it might be too dificult. Thank you for making me play it! Once I got familiar with the icons, it's going quite smoothly.
Nice that you guys call the shelf of shame "The Shelf Of Opportunity", I'm gonna take this as a habit :D
We heard it from somewhere but unfortunately can't remember where.. Would love to give that person credit.
Our Family Plays Games?
@@BeforeYouPlay I've seen 3 minute boardgames call it that way.
8:55 the rulebook says the citizen can also come from your personal supply, if you have a citizen there. You hire a citizen from the general supply only if you can't or don't want to bring one from your personal supply or from any location on the board.
Thank you for this video, it's very very good.
Troyes, what a game!! At 4 players, 3 players, 2 players, even solo mode is an interesting challenge.
Awesome playthrough as usual, thanks guys! Haha, the year of Naveen is back on track. That laugh at 58:06 sums it all up haha ;-) Thanks again and looking forward to the next one!
Such a great tutorial! Thank you! I also really appreciate your attention to editing!!
Excellent playthrough!
One quick rules question/comment:
At 31:20, I believe the "Interrupted Work" event should only remove one Cathdral cube, not one per player.
(Event cards which affect each player say "each player" in their descriptions; this one doesn't.)
So I think only one cube (blue) should be removed.
Yes! you are correct, that was a booboo. We make it more difficult for ourselves sometimes lol
Wow, surprised that you guys covered this one. One of my top 3 games of all time. I'll always be up for a game of Troyes.
So glad we were encouraged to cover this one. Excited to try it now with the expansion.
Hey, you`re the only ones who managed to teach me this game!! Leaving for trying it finally! You `re the greatest! Thanx
Glad we could help! Highly recommend you try it out at 3 players!
I was just introduced to this game (3 player) and i was floored how much fun it was. I cant wait for my next play now that I’ve internalized the rules and understand at least a bit of the strategy! Great play through! Thanks M&N for an enjoyable and thorough teach. I am in agreement with all of your opinions!
I just bought this game. Best rules overview and play through. I love how tight you edited the video.
I find this game isn’t easy to teach although it is easy to understand once you play it. Just pulled it off the shelf. Your playthroughs are very helpful. Many thanks!
Yeah I totally agree with you on that! Thanks, glad we could help!!
I love this game and am so glad to see it get some more coverage.
One of my favorites!!!! My fav being Trajan! This was introduced to me early in my gaming career and is a mainstay of my collection!
Love Trajan, we really need to play it again soon!
One of my favorite games. I am so glad that it is off the shelf of Opportunity. A couple of feedback notes:
1. Major deal: The round ends IMMEDIATELY if there are no more dice in any of the districts, so in particular Round 1 should have ended at 26:50 (after Monique used the white 6). This is a major thing that changes the flow of the game compared to what you showed.
2. The snake draft placement of citizens at the beginning is part of the play and not the set up, so I wish you had covered that as well as your decisions in there. This is a very minor note, and I could see wanting to reduce video length a little bit.
Glad to see Troyes on your channel. Still a Top10 game for my wife and I, even after all these years.
Just want to thank you both, for very good playthroughs. You really learn out how to play. Like you a lot! Peter.
Been waiting for this one!
The first time I played this I was confused and hated it but afterwards I couldn't stop thinking about it. Now I love it, I can't think of another game quite like it.
Easily a top 10 game for me. Has been for years.
This game has some serious staying power!
My top 3 game of all time. Pretty much best euro for 2-3 players since it has simple ruleset, lot of interaction, great replay value with cards. Check out the expansion - with more dice you can do even more cool stuff on and around the board :)
Hello, thanks for your great playthrough and review. Thanks to you I bought it and can't wait to play it. Your videos are always great. Nice greetings from Germany
One of my top 5. It's just amazing.
Year of Naveen!!! Ya boy! Love this game and good play through! Keep it up! Pumped for more!!
Can't Stop. Wont Stop! ;-)
I actually think Troyes is one of the most thematic euros. Everything makes sense from the thematic point of view. Of course that building the cathedral is not the most important feature, but the fight to have influence in the various orders of the city and like that gaining resources (dice) to use and activate the profession cards or fight the events, all makes sense, I never felt any thematic desconexion. Great playthrough as always.
Very thematic, I agree. In addition to what you said, every card in the game has thematic scoring/modifiers in relation to the profession cards, which themselves match every order of building. Many reviewers share Monique's and Naveem's' feelings on this, however. Perhaps it is the use of dice instead of special worker meeples that makes the theme less obvious. But leaving these babies out would defeat the purpose of Troyes. :-)
Great video! Seriously thinking about getting this one!
Hallo ihr beiden,
ich wollte euch sagen, dass ich durch dieses Video innerhalb von einer Stunde die kompletten Regeln von Troyes gelernt habe. Und das obwohl Englisch nicht meine Muttersprache ist. Ich wollte das Spiel auch schon so lange spielen. Heute habe ich es, dank euch, endlich bei BGA spielen können. Und ich habe 32:34 verloren, aber ich wusste am Ende auch warum. Es hat Spaß gemacht, und jetzt überlege ich mir das Spiel zu kaufen.
Danke für eure tolle Arbeit, man merkt euch an, dass ihr es gerne macht.
Viele Grüße von Andreas aus Stuttgart, Germany in die USA bzw. aktuell nach Japan
Watching this reminds me of all the excitement I had playing this game many years ago. Hands down my favourite boardgame. Unfortunately I was only able to play my physical copy once or twice, as it proved to complicated for my friends and family to learn without dying of boredom. Sad. That didn't stop me from playing dozens of times on BGA. I'll have to dust off my copy asap and try it again!
The wild purple dice in the expansion are a game changer, I never play without them and you get a load more cards - highly recommended.
Another example of the gems hiding in plain site. Nice gameplay!
I've been wanting to try this one for so long.
The game does actually have a player order mitigation mechanic. You don't just rotate first player -- the flow of first player changes in the final rounds. Whether this completely balances the seats, I can't say, but having played the game many times I can say that it does certainly help.
Could you elaborate more on what you mean by "the flow of first player changes in the final rounds." ?
@@bencheesecake It's been a while since I read the rules/played the game, but I recall that the first player changes clockwise until round ~4 (in a 4p game) at which point it starts to go counter-clockwise. So although players who start in late seats don't get as many first player rounds, they do get rounds where they get to go twice in a row and other subtle benefits. If you pay attention to the double turn it can make a big difference. Especially with regard to fighting the invaders and setting up your red dice, etc.
It's always interesting seeing people react to Troyes. It's still my favourite game. It really sits in an older euro design philosophy that emphasized more tactical play and more combative mechanics.
For the interruption of work event, only the top cube has to be removed, not for each player.
Hi Joe, Ahhhh no way! Thanks for the heads up!
True, wanted to post the same. The small mistake is at 31:20, for anyone wondering.
Great playthrough! It's been on my shelf of shame a few years as well...🤭
One of the best games out there. So good!
Thank you so much for this great video. I have the game for a long time but I didn't dare to play it with two. Now I will!
Yeah, it plays quite well and snappy at 2P, I think 3 would be the sweet spot though.
@@BeforeYouPlay I'll try to find a third player after the lockdown. Do you think that we should try the expansion with two players?
This is one of my favorite games so I was happy to see you getting it off you shelf.
Several reviewers think the art is ugly. It was nice to hear from somebody who likes it. I think Alexandre Roche has made a wonderful personal interpretation of medieval art.
I have the expansion and remember feeling it made the game a bit less tight which I did not appreciate. That was some years ago and after only a couple of plays so I really should play it more and chose what modules to use carefully.
Do you have access to Tournay? Same designers and artist(!), ometimes called Troyes - The card game bur really it isn’t. It’s a tableau builder that uses some concepts from Troyes (buying workers from opponents, callamities all can counter). I like it! Though not as much as Troyes!
Truly love the mechanics of this wonderful game. So satisfying to combo cards and their various functions with the ideal number of dice. My only complaint is I feel the 4 rounds in the 2 player game is insufficient to really achieve everything you want to achieve. We play a house ruled version of the 2 player game where you play 5 rounds and adjust the character card thresholds to reflect the impact of the extra round in order to keep the game balanced.
One of my favourites, tend to like chaotic (hybrid?) Euros;o) Worker placement especially is rather passiv aggressiv, no need to kill if one can deprive others from ressources. And here if something is taken you get something else instead, more tactical than strategic...
Since you liked the artwork, recommend Tournay (card driven city-/engine builder) and Bruxelles 1893 (most classic/complex, Last Will goes Trajan) from the same devs, interesting mechanisms and similarly interactive;o)
(And yes, shelf of opportunity is a great, more endearing term, love it.) Cheers!
Thanks Before You Play! I just love your playthroughs. I was surprised to hear that Naveen had "The Year of Naveen." 🤣 I guess I only pick games that Monique wins, because it had been a while since Naveen had a victory before my eyes. 😁
Xavier Georges is one of my favorite designers for this, Carson City and Ginkopolis. Truly wonderful designs. Four is definitely different. Your skin will still be fine because you will expect it AND you can buy other people's dice and affect them. The purple die is a wonderful addition. You don't even need the expansion: just add a purple die as a wild die that can't be stolen. I love this game and wish it was a little less obtuse. I ALWAYS have to relearn it due to the cards and influence cubes...but it's always great. Have you played Carson City or Ginkopolis?
Yessss. Just got the game last week. Thanks for making this playthrough 🥳🥳🥳
Have fun!
@@BeforeYouPlay could you make a playthrough for Praga Caput Regni? Any plans for this one? 😊
@@jogi7314 yesss! We’re working on that one right now actually. We just need to play it a couple more times. So maybe a week and a half or so
@@BeforeYouPlay 🤯🤯🤯 waaaaaat?!? Amazing! Thank you guys 🥳🥳🥳
@@BeforeYouPlay also I would be very excited to see a Archipelago playthrough. Though it’s an older game. 😊
I love Troyes and 3 is far and away the best player count. I'd probably prefer to play something else at 2 and I like to play with the purple dice at 4.
The expansion does include a "tournament variant" for turn order at 3 and 4 players. I only use it for 4.
You guys should do Brass Birmingham. Love to see if it's good at 2 players. :D
Maybe Brass Lancashire? Especially if it’s 2p
Spoiler alert: it is!
Brother Lanc and Birm are heaven.
I sold\gave away most of my board games, but couldn't get rid of Troyes and the Ladies of Troyes. On top of being a solid game, it is also one of the most beautifully illustrated games even till this day where there's a lot of competition.
It is a huge risk for a publisher to produce a game that does not cater to basic considerations of accessibility (color blindness), by printing components in bright, standardized primary colors. I think overall it's a good thing to do for people, but it also means you can't make beautiful things with unique palettes, like Troyes.
Year of Naveen! Hahaha
I only played this once, and my brother wasn’t a fan - he didn’t prepare well before and was foggy on the rules. We ended up getting rid of it.
Now we own Black Angel, which shares a lot of the same systems - but for me it is smoother. He likes this one so we got more plays in.
Wish I could give this one more chance with the Women of Troyes expansion.
Good idea - Troyes -> it's my number 5 of all time favorite (on BGG) :-) .
If you like this and before all the artwork, you should have a look at 'Lorenzo (il Magnifico)'. Just as good as Troyes and with the expansion (that's mandatory for me) even better.
Thanks for the review
Tournesol
I played Troyes last weekend and loved it! Love the straight-up tactical messing that these oldschool euros to do well. Hansa Teutonica, Bruxelles 1893 etc.
Even casually linear ones like Marco Polo 2 are cool. I literally cannot get inside the mindset of people who'd rather play Twilight Imperium, Horseless Carriage etc. Those games are too fussy and seem to think complicated minigames etc are additional fun.
But yeah, I'm also itching to get non-traditional games like Imperial 2030 back to the table. That game is SO good with the right crowd and very rules-light (albeit not easy to 'grasp').
Combat Commander is mindblowingly good too as a two-player game. Just exceptionally well designed, provided you're the kind of player who can hold tight to playing optimally and won't get bored and think "what the hell ... I'll just charge that machine gun nest for fun" as you'll lose :) It's a bit like a game of chicken in that regarding, but the handbuilding mechanism works perfectly to provide moments when you can seize initiative.
Pax Pamir 2 excellent for 3+ players (not sure about 2). A very fluid, sandboxy game with several ways to trigger a game end and an emphasis on interrupting opponents from doing it at the right time for them.
Great game - and I'm pretty sure the lady's expansion is OOP.
Love these classic Euros. They have just the best art. Troyes and Bruges.
SPOILERS
Year of Naveen.
Walmart every once in a blue moon sells it for a 1/3 of the retail price. We picked it up for $12 a couple months ago!
I love Troyes. I might know what those extra cards are.
My copy comes with 4 bonus cards, and a separate solo page that also describes those bonus cards. The solo mode is designed by Shadi Torbey, the creator of Onirim.
If you don't have that page I can scan both sides for you.
Awesome game and really nice video. You should try Black Angel from the same 3 designers
The tithe is power, it gets you yellow dice for free. But you do have to give up white dice first, so you are paying something.
It's a great spot to have control of, especially if opponents booted you out of the yellow building! ;-)
Is influence capped at 20, as it's marked on the board? Or can you hoard as much as you want?
Awesome playthrough and review! Are you sure you're allowed to reroll your dice before facing the black dice? I thought you couldn't but maybe I've been playing wrong.
Yes, they can. "Before countering a black die, or performing an action, you may spend your influence points...." - rulebook, paragraph Influence.
I love this game as it has an excellent official solo variant. I've yet to play it with 4 people but I love it with 1,2 and 3.
Which solo variant do you enjoy mate?
@@craigandrews7544 I love both LeRoy & The King's Challenge. LeRoy is tough though.
wow ... that cover .. as shut up and listen mentioned will blew many off including me ... but seeing this playthrought ... what a fun medium weight euro and lovely gameplay mechanism ... wow ...
I would be interested in your thoughts on black angel is you guys have access to it
Did you ever end up playing with the expansion? and if so thoughts on it?
❤️ Troyes
At 38:45 when Naveen passes (end of turn) he should get 2 coins as well.
1:01:20 MY MAN!!! Atta boy! Represent us! :D :D
Been curious to grab this game, but seems kinda pricey right now. Anyone know about reprints or a good place to get a copy?
Do you will also try Black Angel, from the same creators ? For me it's a kind of Troy but with more theme. And I think they are making a relooking of Troy for next year ;-)
Are you now gonna give Black Angel a try? I am really curious to see what you think about the spiritual succesor.
nowhere near as good.
Haven't played it, I remember being attracted to it when it first came out. Never did get the chance to play/learn it though... :-(
A euro from a time when euros were interactive
When you combat the events in the que as an action do you double red dice?
No. You only double the red dice when countering the black dice Durning the events phase.
What are the plastic cups that hold the chits from?
I really like Troys a lot - expansion is good too! Have you played Crystal Palace - also has interesting dice mechanics where you pick your own dice values - very tight and tense game though.
Haven't played it yet, we received it over a year ago and still haven't gotten it to the table. ;(
Crystal is good more than 3 players.
I like this game, but it has a flaw a lot of dice placement games have which is that rolling higher is inherently better than rolling low. Even with mitigation abilities you still have to use influence (another resource) to re-roll or to flip to the opposite side. These are actions other players don't have to do if they turned out to roll higher more consistently in the game, which means they have more influence to spare. When you roll higher, players tend to want to purchase it from you as well, which puts another good benefit for rolling higher.
The game is designed well enough to where low numbers can be used in spaces like the cathedral or to bump people out of the three regions, but in our games only the cathedral action is used often. Even in those cases, only low white dice are valued. Low value yellow and red are even less useful.
I respectfully disagree with you. Higher roll is not always better.
Before the last round, she had a yellow 1. She could have used influence for reroll her dice, or flipped the dice for 4 influence.
Love this game! I’ve played it several times on BGA at 2 players and a few times at 3p and 4p. I felt it was best at 3 players but still really fun at 2p. I haven’t played it in awhile, I need to play again soon.
I've played Troyes most with 3 people, it's also very take-that-y. I think the sweet spot is 2 players.
Whenever anyone says Troyes, I am reminded of David Blaine's appearance on South Park. This is both a blessing and a curse.
Aww I don't know the reference! I can only imagine... hahaha
I mean...now we need at least a sticker for #YoN ;)
GGs!
LOL!!
Great video! I prefer the game best at 2 or 3. The Ladies of Troyes expansion does expand the replayability by quite a bit. Troyes is one of the few great Euros on BGA, which also helps to get alot of plays in during this time.
Any thoughts on Troyes vs Orléans?
I own and enjoy both, but I struggle to find any similarities in terms of gameplay and general feel. Orleans is more relaxing, while Troyes is more intense and thinky.
It strikes me a bit, how you miss most important factor which balances out starting player, and its war, the need to defend the city - where starting players are obliged to spend their dice. Game scales well, you just need to play it as an interactive mean euro (caylus, brass, barrage), not a solitaire, planned euro. I will not even go deep with moves protecting your dice and bluff tactics. Hope you liked the game enough to play it a bit more, its one of my top10 for sure.
Did yalls ever play with 3 or with the expansion?
Yes, we've played with 3 but not with the expansion
i feel for naveen-always stuck having to pronounce the designer’s names lol
LOL yeah, it's definitely tough!
troyes is a knife fight in a phone booth
Giving Twah a second chance. Online.
DO IT!! :-)
1:03:56.....4 players variant>>> R1: 1 2 3 4; R2 2 3 4 1; R3 3 4 1 2; R4 4 1 2 3; R5 1 2 3 4; R6 4 3 2 1 ......for 3 players: R1 1 2 3; R2 2 3 1; R3 3 1 2; R4 1 2 3; R5 3 2 1
We are waiting Black Angel! pls play Black Angel
I need my purple die!
We are excited to try out the expansion!
Love the art, had heard great things, finally got to play it (at 2p)… and just didn’t like it. The slow reveal of the activity cards limited forward planning, the math was tedious, and I never once felt like I’d done anything clever the entire game. Perhaps I’d enjoy it at a higher player count: more opportunities to disrupt others while accomplishing something myself, and more rounds to complete plans. For now it’s one of my biggest let downs in gaming.
I see the slow revelation of action spaces as a plus for this game. Everytime you play the game there is a different engine to discover and exploit. It's both a tactical and strategic game. That is what makes it unique. :)
I've tried to learn Troyes so many times and for some reason my eyes glaze over each time. It's a shame because it is one of the most beautiful boardgames I've ever seen. I have played Black Angel but it was possibly the most fiddly game I've ever played, and all the actions were small and unexciting. Well, at least I quite like Solenia.
Looks fun!!..but not $100 fun.
Is it out of print???
@@BeforeYouPlay Im not too sure. Amazon only has one in stock..the board game economy is a very fickle thing.
Asmodee just got a reprint, and it is in their store
@@Cutieyum4 thanks!!
You guys are super cute. Remind me of my wife and I, who play a ton of euro games together. 😁
Middle Ages, Euro game... And yet it's still dollars, apparently? 😜😂
For me the extention remove the core tension of the game, and I dont like it. I prefer vanilla !
I'm kinda sad to admit that I've been pronouncing it 'Troy Ez' in my head this whole time.
Do people actually like this game?
Well, I believe you summed up the game's weaknesses very well - the randomness from dice rolls and the high importance of acting first. I personally dislike a lot that the game is effectively unbalanced at any player count higher than two, as you always have people who will be last more often than the rest. For a highly interactive game, I believe this is a big turnoff.
The randomness can be mitigated with the spending of influence. Buying dice also overcomes randomness to a degree
The turn order advantage is also mitigated by the fact that players earlier in the turn order have to fight off the event dice (black dice) first (and starting with the higher number black dice).
Im shocked that Monique is lukewarm on Troyes. She generally likes heavier games. It is actually sad becaude you would never truly understand the mechanics and nuances of this game unless u play a few times. I highly recommend yiu guys give it another shot. It’s probably a million times better than any Lacerda games I have played and I am a lacerda fan as well. It’s just too damn good for me.
Prepare yourself. Troyes stans are coming.
(Literally the silliest and most fanatical board game fans on the planet outside of 18xx and wargame grognards.)
LOL!!
The german rules are too complicated, understand nothing