Little tip: if you're trying out different settings such as input color space in the project settings window, you can move the window to the side and use Alt+ click save to see your changes without closing the window every time.
If the footage is in braw, and you don't specify project level camera raw- settings in your project settings, you can see which color science the footage was shot in the RAW tab of color page. Also, one BM Ursa Mini Pro G1/G2 specific thing to watch out for is that in some low-light conditions those cameras can be prone to fix pattern noise in the shadow areas. That may require some massaging of the low end of your contrast curve.
As part of the setup you can also go to the Blackmagic RAW tab (first in the line above the wheels). This allows you to recover highlights, and make overall adjustments to exposure, tint and so on - all part of delivering that best starting point even before you provide the look...
When working on projects in school I have tried to include color space as a part of the camera report, but I noticed a lot of my fellow classmates don't really think that much about color space, so often I don't get the information needed. For my own movie, which was shot on Arri Alexa, I was very clear on needing the color space written down. But there are people in my class that filmed on black magic pocket 4k, and I never found out which color space they filmed on. In our 1st year we all filmed on black magic, and I noticed my newer grades of my old films are a lot better now that I learned how color spaces work. I am a bit sad we didnt learn about it in school though.
For BMPCC 4K I use Film Gen 5 for gamma and Film gen 4/5 for space, I use the gen 4/5 because the cameras got an update to a gen 5 color science before gen 4
The color space and gamma from any clip from a Blackmagic Camera will be listed in the metadata panel in Resolve. Even when production doesn't take notes, you will be able to find the info there. Also, if you work in Resolve Color Management, it will automatically apply the correct input color space to any clip from a Blackmagic Camera.
So why do some do the color magament through the nodes? That seems useless if you can do it globally on the project settings right from the start. Am I missing something?
Both options are valid! It really comes down to preference, and I prefer to be able to see the visual pipeline from sensor to display. You might find that you have a bit more flexibility by setting up your color management manually through nodes.
Knowing which specific Blackmagic camera the footage was shot on also helps with the educated guess. For example, if the footage was coming from a Pocket 4K or 6K, chances are it was shot with the Film Gen 5 color science (unless the camera was on super old firmware which would mean it was shot with Film Gen 4). BMD's naming conventions kinda suck so I totally feel for DPs and ACs that get asked what color gamut they shot with on set by post-production houses lol
I can't believe you are addressing this now. Just this days I was researching how to approach color management for BMPCC footage I didn't know how they shot. Believe in coincidences?
If the footage is camera original, whether ProRes or Blackmagic RAW you can go to the edit page and view the metadata for the clip and see the colour science version used (in the camera section). Pair that with the camera name (also in the metadata) and you dont have to guess and try combinations - the information is there.
Working on a short film that was shot with Blackmagic Cameras right now. I have the BRAW files and what i did was in the RAW settings I changed it to DWG and Davinci Intermediate Gen 5 and started grading from there.
Awesome vid, as always! 🎉 Wondering what computer u re using with the color grading level you do. Kind enough as to make a vid on that? I m deciding on one too, my iMac is already struggling now
Question that im hoping someone can shed some light on, I shot a 3 camera music video with 3 black magic 6k’s (one of them a pro) and one of the 6k’s was accidentally shooting identical settings but prores 422 while the others were shooting 12:1 Braw. Im having a really tough time matching the footage and was wondering if anyone has any knowledge if something like this?
Cullen, i see you work on Mac. Could you please make a video explaining in extreme detail how you set up your color management AND EXPORT SETTINGS AS WELL -- because when i export the gamma always shifts without a doubt, and there doesnt seem to be a clear answer online for this. Many people have different takes. I trust you most, so a video would be extremely helpful for translating what i see in my timeline workspace to an exported playable file Thank you
@@J_HNP I think the need for 709-A depends on the end result you want to achieve. Apple devices (the preview, the players, maybe even safari and ios devices) have a tiny gamma shift (by design) because apple stubbornly refuses to use the same standard as everybody else. So i think this "A" version compensates for davinci NOT having the same "shift" as the apple devices you (in this scenario) want to grade for. So that would help you see you grade the same way these devices would show it. But if you grade for anything else, you should stick with the regular 709. Its kinda confusing but @Darren Mostyn did a great video on it with the conclusion to basically ignore it and dont compensate for the shift unless these devices are what u grade for.
You can figure it out by using automatic color management. The image will look how they shot it. Take a still. Then go back to your normal color management settings and find the input color space that matches
That's the weird thing though. If automatic color management can figure it out - why not have that information somewhere ready to go for those of us who want to use Cullen's approach?
A super useful one ! I agree that BlackMagic should definilty do something about their color management, it's so confusing sometimes xD I often go with Film gen 5 and wide gamut gen 4/5 when using CST's, even done a preset for my sandwich DWG color management so I don't have to set it up again on each single project :D By the way great tip about Film being associated with log, I didn't know that. Next time it'll avoid me having to search in the Video ones ;) I'll only focus on the ones stating "film" in their name as my potential candidates !
@@cicolas_nage That's what I've been using, but I think that's not exactly right cuz it gives me a different result from project level color management or using the provided LUT...
@@cicolas_nage I mainly shoot on the pocket 6k pro, and I used to use the gen 5 film to video LUT, my problem is that the results I get from that lut is very similar to that from the CST, but not exactly the same. I get three slightly different results from the LUT, CST and Color Management workflow. I'm curious why that is since these conversions are all essentially from BMD themselve.
@@cicolas_nage Yeah, thanks. maybe you can try this on your own footage and see if you observe the same differences. I also tried with slog3 footage shot on the A7siii. and while the CST gives me a slightly orangish-red, the project level color management produced seemingly more accurate reds. the differences are minuscule, and can only be observed when compared side-by-side or looking at the vectorscope, but it is there.
I'm just wondering if you grade for example BM footage together with DJI for drones and so on. I see you putting the LUT on the overall timeline. How do you get the timeline LUT correspond with the overall clips? And work with different camera settings and color management?
I’m pretty confident with my answer on this one: Instead of selecting the color space in the project settings, leave that to timeline. This will allow you to adjust the color space on the timeline itself, clip to clip. you adjust the input color space once your clips are on the timeline. Right click on the clip and there should be an option for input color space then there’s a drop-down menu where you can select that specific color space for DJI, black, magic, etc.. Let me know if this helps.
I haven’t checked this in a while with Blackmagic specifically but does the camera raw tab not give you the info and the color type used in the recording of the material. With Red and others all the meta data shows up. Also if you look at the meta data tab under camera do not get all the data about the camera. I’m going to check this as soon as I’m done here. I can’t believe BMD would have skipped this.
Could you please explain your template node structure? Are the nodes on the bottom level, Layer Nodes? And what are you doing on each specific node. Ie. I can see you have a Contrast Pivot node etc. thank you.
To cut down the time it takes to try different color parameters - you can hit the :Save" button while holding down the Alt/Option key when hitting Save and the change will take hold without the window closing. When trying a bunch of options, and you can see the results in the source monitor- this really makes things a lot faster. Not sure why Blackmagic Design who makes the cameras and the software, can't find the metadata functionality to track the versions and LOG etc. to the BRAW for us to see quickly what was used to shoot the video? You would think that that would be selling point to people for shooters or editor/colorists. If I opened an XAVC file in Sony Catalyst Browser application - I can read the lens setting, Log type and Gamut etc. So it doesn't need to be in RAW for a company to include that in the metadata - so not sure why BMD who holds the cards doesn't accommodate.
Newer BMD cameras do include all kinds of metadata with both braw and ProRes footage, including "Color Space Notes". For example with some BMPCC 6K Pro footage it says "Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro, Color Science Gen 5"
@@KaurH 100% yes, checking the metadata is much better than blindly trying all the options. I’d add that it is not just the newer BMD camera models. In fact, all BMD camera models record color metadata that will show up in the metadata panel of Resolve. Though they don’t all use the same naming as the input color space options, it’s enough info to figure it out.
@@GetUpTo88 At this point in RCM doesn’t Resolve just read that metadata from BMD camera ProRes files to automatically apply the correct input color space anyway? I could have sworn it did that last I checked. But I’ve been working with only BRAW for so long perhaps I just imagined it.
I shoot on BM cameras and always know which Gamma and colour space I shoot in, but the cameras say nothing nothing about Gen 1 or Gen 3 and sometimes when I choose what seem to be correct options it comes out weird so I end up doing what Cullen did and seeing what works. Confusing.
Can you or anyone please help how to set the color management or cst in resolve for slog3 using phantom luts? Also in this scheme of wide gamut which is like log isn’t it hard to do secondary things like pick up skin colour as everything is more broad so it will be hard to pick? I use it after the phantom put conversion
When it comes to qualifying in log, Resolve's qualifiers are color space aware so this shouldn't be a problem as long as you have enabled "Use Color Space Aware Grading Tools" in the color management settings and have set the timeline color space correctly if you're doing node based color management.
I don't use Phantom LUTs but if you open a lot of LUTs in a text editor, some have detailed info as to what the LUT expects on input and what it outputs. Slog-3 can be transformed to almost anything - the LUT is the problem because all LUTs expect a predetermined input and exposure etc. to actually give a result that the author wrote the LUt for.
@@JimRobinson-colors it is slog3 to rec709. Now i am doing just exposure contrast and balance before lut and everything else after lut but every time I come here it’s like everything is before the conversion - then I am thinking ok maybe it works for arri footage - but then I can’t forget that some things are getting better job after the conversion or maybe I am making some mistake - of course I would love to do everything before conversion to get most organic look but some tools are like created for the rec709 like the skin qualifier used in layer nodes etc - or am I wrong ? I see two schools on yt - some are doing everything before conversion some are doing something before something after
what I am doing now is -> color managment is davinci YRGB, timeline and outline rec709-a. then I am switching slog to slog to davioci gamut and i do exposure contrast balance then dw to slog3 - then LUT conversion phantom - and then I just do secondary things, sometimes post-conversion-contrast (seems more clean) HSL changes, hallation, sharpen, grain etc
I just upgraded to 18.1.4 so maybe I have some sort of system bug going on but whenever I switch the input color space on project settings with Blackmagic 4K BRAW clips nothing happens at all. Even tried on non BM color spaces and it just doesn't change. Definitely has color management on it as it looks decent and I can bypass management in timeline and see the log footage. My settings are exactly like Cullens but nothing updates when trying different input color spaces.
Cullen you're a national treasure in the color grading world! We all need to keep sharing and liking your videos so the RUclips algorithm help you get more subscribers. You always put out quality content that definitely deserves to be seen be millions of people! 🫡👏🏽
Great question! Blackmagic footage can be tricky. You're more than likely going to have to follow the same routine that I demonstrated with the input color space using project level color management. Try some different combinations until you find a result that feels right for your material. Hope that helps!
Hi Cullen, thank you for sharing your knowledge. How do ou think one should handle DNG files from a Blackmagic Production 4K camera ? and the original 1080p camera ? Would you also suggest using the color gen 1 ? Thank you.
The same principles apply to color grading DNG files. I would suggest upgrading to latest firmware and using whatever latest color science available, or using the latest color science that looks good to you.
One thing I have been wondering is when using LUT's in the Timeline section, where does this node place itself in the overall grade? For example when using Denoise it's recommended for optimization to put that as the very first node, and something like Sharpen or Grain on the last node.. Where does this node sit on that timeline? Or does it work in a different way altogether and not affect the grading process?
I believe Timeline nodes are applied after everything else. You can create a group from several clips, then you will be able to create a node tree which will be applied before individual clips’ nodes.
Do clip and timeline levels fall under the overall color management in project settings? I’m having to do input and output transforms at the node level and want to know if my output transform should go in the clip level or timeline level. (Davinci isn’t allowing overall color management with vlog from my lumix s5ii, so I’m forced to manage at the node level).
It's incredibly weird to be working with BRAW and then literally not look at the RAW tab in Resolve. While BRAW "technically" isn't RAW, the RAW decoding section is incredibly relevant to selecting precisely how you want it to decode. Which then affects the input color space in the color management section. Because I've been enjoying using ARRI's tools, I actually decode BRAW into LogC3. From here in the project settings you can have your timeline colorspace in LogC3 and the input color space as LogC3 and use ARRI's LUTs (that are free) to get a powerful look you want quickly and easily. This is generally what I'm doing with all cameras now - and as Cullen says "a image centric workflow" instead of a "camera centric workflow". This works regardless of original color space and gamma. I've even done this workflow on 8-bit Sony files and it works fantastically well, provided the camera was setup properly to begin with and is also inside what an 8-bit camera can reasonably provide.
It's a good thing BMD switched their cameras to basically all shoot BRAW and make it so your workflow is effectively the default (you're always aware of what color space you're decoding to and you can choose to adapt to your preferred pipeline). In this video, Cullen must be applying "guess and check" because he's dealing with Prores clips. If they're straight out of camera, you could probably skip that step and find the color space in the metadata tags, but god forbid the clips were transcoded to prores by someone else and you have no idea what settings they used.
DaVinci Resolve Reference Manual p. 224 might shed some light: Ordinarily, resizing is done in Linear, but certain specialty workflows benefit from doing resizing in other color spaces, so this option lets you choose which is best. The available options are: - Timeline: Uses the Timeline Color Space to perform all resizing operations. - Log: Uses a Log Color Space for resizing. Good for avoiding artifacts in certain high-contrast images, such as titles and star fields. - Linear: Usually provides the best results with most SDR media. - Linear Mapped: Usually provides the best results with most HDR media. - Gamma: Provided in case you find a need for this option. - Gamma Mapped: Usually provides best results when mixing SDR media with wide gamut and log-encoded media on the same timeline.
@@Crimbtw I don't think most people use it as a resource to read starting page 1 and then through the whole thing. It's a very well tabulated .pdf file. You can go through and find the subject topics that you want to learn about. So far there is only one topic I haven't found the information, precisely, how Resolve handles something.
But isn't there anywhere you can see all the camera metadata including all the camera settings? I cant find it in the clip info or in the media pool or anywhere?
There is. Check the metadata panel. The color space and gamma for any clip from a BMD camera will be shown there. It's not necessary to blindly apply IDTs as shown in this video. Cullen is great and is just unfortunately wrong here. None of us is infallible.
One of the things you mentioned is not knowing in what color space your own camera shoots. I asked myself this question after watching your video on color management and I have to admit I'm not 100% sure. Where can I find in what color space I shot?
Many cheaper cameras can only shoot Rec.709, but with cameras that shoot log, it depends on the camera brand and the specific model and if you have actually switch on log. If you have switched log on, but the specific type of log isn't named in the camera, you can google around to find the type. For example Sony cameras tend to shoot S-Gamut3 (or S-Gamut3.Cine depending on the selected profile) S-Log3
@@freneticallyYT In that case, if you have set your dynamic range option to "Film", and are not baking in the LUT, the input color space will be Blackmagic Design Wide Gamut Gen 4 / 5 Blackmagic Design Film Gen 5
Hey Yevgen! The automatic check box is definitely an option! It would require that the metadata is correct and in my experience, I would rather have the ability to declare that information to the software myself.
@@CullenKelly thanks, i guess with experience one can do that. I remember that with time i began perceiving colors better but still learning. I guess the eye should learn with time.
Again, Cullen, a great teaching. But I do have questions that I trust you might cover in Grade School sometime. I am confused with “Tone Mapping” in the Color Space Transform in the Group Pre-clip and Timeline. I understand matching the Input Gamma to the camera that shot the footage and using Output Color Space to be DWG and Output Gamma to be DaVinci Intermediate, then going from DWG to display device Rec.709 at the end of the process. (Thank you for the great explanations you have made in previous videos). My problem is what do I expect to achieve with each item in Tone Mapping? For instance, if I use other than DaVinci for the Tone Mapping Method and instead use one of the others from the drop-down menu, like Luminance with various Max. Input (nits), what should I expect? The same goes for Max. Output. Then there is Gamut Mapping Method: None, Saturation Compression, Clip. What’s happening? Finally, could you explain the Advanced checkboxes at the bottom and what I should expect from each of them. This seems like a long series of questions so anything you can cover would be greatly appreciated. Les.
You are over-complicating the whole thing a bit. Since the release of the first Ursa Mini 4.6k in 2016/2017 all cameras add the used color science version into the ProRes footage's metadata under Color Space notes. For BRAW you can check the firmware version under "Camera Firmware" metadata. Overall you can use these information I've compiled for you: Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5k & Original Pocket (have Color Science Gen 1): Color Space: BM Film Gen 1 | Gamma: BM Film |
I must say. I really love your tutorial. ❤ But there's something that's a bit of concern to me. At the timeline level, can you be more detailed on creating a look, without using LUTS. It'll really help and make you standout more. Thank you 🙏
Just for general context. Imagine LUTs as a packaged preset. If you apply a LUT you apply a bunch of actions/settings at once. That comes with the benefit of being able to skip lots of steps bei pasting (even copying) looks and apply them on the fly or taking a look to different people/DAWs. But that comes with drawbacks like the need to use the exact right lut that fit to your situation (like G-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3 to rec.709 Gamma2.4) and if its not made specifically for that, its probably gonna look strange or not ideal. Also you can only adjust the strength but cant change any of parameters this LUT adjusts. A colorist does all these things manually (for the most part) and is therefore able to adjust everything and even to create a LUT from the grade he/she did.
By the way I have one question : when using CST's (especially for BM footage) we get to pick the colorspace AND gamma in input. But with the project level settings it only allows to pick one colorspace. Should we assume that Resolve is automatically picking the right gamma curve for the chosen colospace ? What if we pick the wrong gamma for a chosen colorspace in CSTs ? That's the confusing part for me xD Especially with BM again, because if we take Arri Wide Gamut, we know that it's either log C3 or log C4. But with BM there are so many options for gamma curves too, is there a chart that can tell us which gamma is associated with which colorspace ? Thx !
Guessing this video was more for people who get handed ProRes files without documentation. At least on BRAW footage, there's plenty of information in the video file's metadata. And I rarely, if ever shoot on anything other than BRAW if I can help it. At least on my camera. In my testing, the 12:1 BRAW is good enough, and more flexible than 4K ProRes 4:4:4 and even smaller file sizes. Pretty sure there's stuff in metadata to read for footage recorded to ProRes in camera as well. But I can't swear to that. Also, in the color page, for raw footage, there's the tab that lets you see what space and gamma it was shot in and you can change it there per clip if you want to. --- Also... people who don't document these settings should not be trusted with these cameras :P Imagine having a film crew where you ask "what was this footage shot on?" answered with a shrug "Idon'tknow, the thing rattled as it used to whan I pressed record."
Most BMD cameras film in ProRes as an option and I know a lot of DPs that prefer it in many situations. If the footage was in BRAW than this video would be pointless because the Color Space is in the Camera Adjustments tab lol
@@FreelanceBrian I own a 6k and I always shoot in braw. ProRes is just a better option if storage space is an issue. color grading 16 bit raw footage vs 12 log footage is a massive difference and another world.
This is why ProRes is such an embarrassing format to shoot in. BRAW has the camera and color science metadata baked in. Also, Gen. 1 color science was released in 2012 - really baffled how/where did you find footage that ancient. The successor, Gen 3 released in 2016 as far as I can tell.
You tied EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE option???? SO SO SO many ways to find out what BM Camera/space it was recorded in. And you did this to promote some kind of rant? Run out of ideas for your videos? Or are you that clueless and have nothing else to do in your free time?
Little tip: if you're trying out different settings such as input color space in the project settings window, you can move the window to the side and use Alt+ click save to see your changes without closing the window every time.
You could use a CST node too🔥
@@lstrk4390 sort of. Potentially a different spot in the signal chain. But not my point.
Thanks That was bothering me
genius!
If the footage is in braw, and you don't specify project level camera raw- settings in your project settings, you can see which color science the footage was shot in the RAW tab of color page.
Also, one BM Ursa Mini Pro G1/G2 specific thing to watch out for is that in some low-light conditions those cameras can be prone to fix pattern noise in the shadow areas. That may require some massaging of the low end of your contrast curve.
This sounds like the answer. I mean, c'mon, we should see the info somewhere easily and not be guessing on it.
i think he wasn't talking about braw
As part of the setup you can also go to the Blackmagic RAW tab (first in the line above the wheels). This allows you to recover highlights, and make overall adjustments to exposure, tint and so on - all part of delivering that best starting point even before you provide the look...
I have learnt soo much from Cullen… become a more pro colorist just by following through these teachings and other good ones at TAC
When working on projects in school I have tried to include color space as a part of the camera report, but I noticed a lot of my fellow classmates don't really think that much about color space, so often I don't get the information needed. For my own movie, which was shot on Arri Alexa, I was very clear on needing the color space written down. But there are people in my class that filmed on black magic pocket 4k, and I never found out which color space they filmed on.
In our 1st year we all filmed on black magic, and I noticed my newer grades of my old films are a lot better now that I learned how color spaces work. I am a bit sad we didnt learn about it in school though.
For BMPCC 4K I use Film Gen 5 for gamma and Film gen 4/5 for space, I use the gen 4/5 because the cameras got an update to a gen 5 color science before gen 4
The color space and gamma from any clip from a Blackmagic Camera will be listed in the metadata panel in Resolve. Even when production doesn't take notes, you will be able to find the info there. Also, if you work in Resolve Color Management, it will automatically apply the correct input color space to any clip from a Blackmagic Camera.
@@jamielejeunetanks mate
How to “set” or find out colorspace of my camera?
Settings are on Blackmagic Raw
BMPCC 4K?
So why do some do the color magament through the nodes? That seems useless if you can do it globally on the project settings right from the start. Am I missing something?
Both options are valid! It really comes down to preference, and I prefer to be able to see the visual pipeline from sensor to display. You might find that you have a bit more flexibility by setting up your color management manually through nodes.
Had this same thought in my mind. I feel if things can be easy then complicated. Why be complicated especially when teaching
Knowing which specific Blackmagic camera the footage was shot on also helps with the educated guess. For example, if the footage was coming from a Pocket 4K or 6K, chances are it was shot with the Film Gen 5 color science (unless the camera was on super old firmware which would mean it was shot with Film Gen 4). BMD's naming conventions kinda suck so I totally feel for DPs and ACs that get asked what color gamut they shot with on set by post-production houses lol
Thanks for this video. I looking longtime how to color grading blackmagic camera.
Very thankful
I can't believe you are addressing this now. Just this days I was researching how to approach color management for BMPCC footage I didn't know how they shot. Believe in coincidences?
If the footage is camera original, whether ProRes or Blackmagic RAW you can go to the edit page and view the metadata for the clip and see the colour science version used (in the camera section). Pair that with the camera name (also in the metadata) and you dont have to guess and try combinations - the information is there.
@@GetUpTo88 I thought I was sure prores didn't keep metadata. Thank you for the tip
Color management plays a critical role in printing, this is the first time I’ve seen it applied to video!
Beautiful explanation for only scratching the surface. Wonderful video!
Working on a short film that was shot with Blackmagic Cameras right now. I have the BRAW files and what i did was in the RAW settings I changed it to DWG and Davinci Intermediate Gen 5 and started grading from there.
Awesome vid, as always! 🎉
Wondering what computer u re using with the color grading level you do. Kind enough as to make a vid on that? I m deciding on one too, my iMac is already struggling now
Question that im hoping someone can shed some light on, I shot a 3 camera music video with 3 black magic 6k’s (one of them a pro) and one of the 6k’s was accidentally shooting identical settings but prores 422 while the others were shooting 12:1 Braw. Im having a really tough time matching the footage and was wondering if anyone has any knowledge if something like this?
Cullen, i see you work on Mac. Could you please make a video explaining in extreme detail how you set up your color management AND EXPORT SETTINGS AS WELL -- because when i export the gamma always shifts without a doubt, and there doesnt seem to be a clear answer online for this. Many people have different takes. I trust you most, so a video would be extremely helpful for translating what i see in my timeline workspace to an exported playable file
Thank you
Great idea!
If you’re using a color managed workflow, Set “Output Color Space” to Rec 709-A (think, “A” for Apple)
@@J_HNP I think the need for 709-A depends on the end result you want to achieve. Apple devices (the preview, the players, maybe even safari and ios devices) have a tiny gamma shift (by design) because apple stubbornly refuses to use the same standard as everybody else. So i think this "A" version compensates for davinci NOT having the same "shift" as the apple devices you (in this scenario) want to grade for. So that would help you see you grade the same way these devices would show it. But if you grade for anything else, you should stick with the regular 709. Its kinda confusing but @Darren Mostyn did a great video on it with the conclusion to basically ignore it and dont compensate for the shift unless these devices are what u grade for.
I definitely ran into this and like you said, I just tried them all
You can figure it out by using automatic color management. The image will look how they shot it. Take a still. Then go back to your normal color management settings and find the input color space that matches
That's the weird thing though. If automatic color management can figure it out - why not have that information somewhere ready to go for those of us who want to use Cullen's approach?
Man I’d love to see you color some Fujifilm footage
A super useful one ! I agree that BlackMagic should definilty do something about their color management, it's so confusing sometimes xD I often go with Film gen 5 and wide gamut gen 4/5 when using CST's, even done a preset for my sandwich DWG color management so I don't have to set it up again on each single project :D By the way great tip about Film being associated with log, I didn't know that. Next time it'll avoid me having to search in the Video ones ;) I'll only focus on the ones stating "film" in their name as my potential candidates !
I’ve always been curious why there’s not a BMD film gen5 in the CST node.
@@cicolas_nage That's what I've been using, but I think that's not exactly right cuz it gives me a different result from project level color management or using the provided LUT...
@@cicolas_nage I mainly shoot on the pocket 6k pro, and I used to use the gen 5 film to video LUT, my problem is that the results I get from that lut is very similar to that from the CST, but not exactly the same. I get three slightly different results from the LUT, CST and Color Management workflow. I'm curious why that is since these conversions are all essentially from BMD themselve.
@@cicolas_nage Yeah, thanks. maybe you can try this on your own footage and see if you observe the same differences. I also tried with slog3 footage shot on the A7siii. and while the CST gives me a slightly orangish-red, the project level color management produced seemingly more accurate reds. the differences are minuscule, and can only be observed when compared side-by-side or looking at the vectorscope, but it is there.
@@cicolas_nage it could be, yea =.=
I'm just wondering if you grade for example BM footage together with DJI for drones and so on. I see you putting the LUT on the overall timeline. How do you get the timeline LUT correspond with the overall clips? And work with different camera settings and color management?
I’m pretty confident with my answer on this one: Instead of selecting the color space in the project settings, leave that to timeline. This will allow you to adjust the color space on the timeline itself, clip to clip. you adjust the input color space once your clips are on the timeline. Right click on the clip and there should be an option for input color space then there’s a drop-down menu where you can select that specific color space for DJI, black, magic, etc.. Let me know if this helps.
I haven’t checked this in a while with Blackmagic specifically but does the camera raw tab not give you the info and the color type used in the recording of the material.
With Red and others all the meta data shows up.
Also if you look at the meta data tab under camera do not get all the data about the camera.
I’m going to check this as soon as I’m done here.
I can’t believe BMD would have skipped this.
Could you please explain your template node structure? Are the nodes on the bottom level, Layer Nodes? And what are you doing on each specific node. Ie. I can see you have a Contrast Pivot node etc. thank you.
The video starts at 3:42
Where did the "Input Color Space" go? Setting is not available in Project Settings.
Why do you bypass color management on the first clip if you picked the color management in the first place? Curious
What frames u shot this in ?
To cut down the time it takes to try different color parameters - you can hit the :Save" button while holding down the Alt/Option key when hitting Save and the change will take hold without the window closing. When trying a bunch of options, and you can see the results in the source monitor- this really makes things a lot faster.
Not sure why Blackmagic Design who makes the cameras and the software, can't find the metadata functionality to track the versions and LOG etc. to the BRAW for us to see quickly what was used to shoot the video? You would think that that would be selling point to people for shooters or editor/colorists. If I opened an XAVC file in Sony Catalyst Browser application - I can read the lens setting, Log type and Gamut etc. So it doesn't need to be in RAW for a company to include that in the metadata - so not sure why BMD who holds the cards doesn't accommodate.
Newer BMD cameras do include all kinds of metadata with both braw and ProRes footage, including "Color Space Notes".
For example with some BMPCC 6K Pro footage it says "Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro, Color Science Gen 5"
@@KaurH That's great and how it should be when the software company makes the cameras.
@@KaurH 100% yes, checking the metadata is much better than blindly trying all the options. I’d add that it is not just the newer BMD camera models. In fact, all BMD camera models record color metadata that will show up in the metadata panel of Resolve. Though they don’t all use the same naming as the input color space options, it’s enough info to figure it out.
@@jamielej Yeah this was a bit painful for me to watch.
@@GetUpTo88 At this point in RCM doesn’t Resolve just read that metadata from BMD camera ProRes files to automatically apply the correct input color space anyway? I could have sworn it did that last I checked. But I’ve been working with only BRAW for so long perhaps I just imagined it.
I shoot on BM cameras and always know which Gamma and colour space I shoot in, but the cameras say nothing nothing about Gen 1 or Gen 3 and sometimes when I choose what seem to be correct options it comes out weird so I end up doing what Cullen did and seeing what works. Confusing.
Great video, Cullen. Isn't it worth debayering from the raw tab directly into DWG Intermediate?
Can you or anyone please help how to set the color management or cst in resolve for slog3 using phantom luts? Also in this scheme of wide gamut which is like log isn’t it hard to do secondary things like pick up skin colour as everything is more broad so it will be hard to pick? I use it after the phantom put conversion
When it comes to qualifying in log, Resolve's qualifiers are color space aware so this shouldn't be a problem as long as you have enabled "Use Color Space Aware Grading Tools" in the color management settings and have set the timeline color space correctly if you're doing node based color management.
I don't use Phantom LUTs but if you open a lot of LUTs in a text editor, some have detailed info as to what the LUT expects on input and what it outputs. Slog-3 can be transformed to almost anything - the LUT is the problem because all LUTs expect a predetermined input and exposure etc. to actually give a result that the author wrote the LUt for.
@@JimRobinson-colors it is slog3 to rec709. Now i am doing just exposure contrast and balance before lut and everything else after lut but every time I come here it’s like everything is before the conversion - then I am thinking ok maybe it works for arri footage - but then I can’t forget that some things are getting better job after the conversion or maybe I am making some mistake - of course I would love to do everything before conversion to get most organic look but some tools are like created for the rec709 like the skin qualifier used in layer nodes etc - or am I wrong ? I see two schools on yt - some are doing everything before conversion some are doing something before something after
what I am doing now is -> color managment is davinci YRGB, timeline and outline rec709-a. then I am switching slog to slog to davioci gamut and i do exposure contrast balance then dw to slog3 - then LUT conversion phantom - and then I just do secondary things, sometimes post-conversion-contrast (seems more clean) HSL changes, hallation, sharpen, grain etc
Is YRGB color managed preferable to just the YRGB setting?
I just upgraded to 18.1.4 so maybe I have some sort of system bug going on but whenever I switch the input color space on project settings with Blackmagic 4K BRAW clips nothing happens at all. Even tried on non BM color spaces and it just doesn't change. Definitely has color management on it as it looks decent and I can bypass management in timeline and see the log footage. My settings are exactly like Cullens but nothing updates when trying different input color spaces.
braw is a raw format, the correct transform is already applied and changing the input colorspace transform will have no effect
Cullen you're a national treasure in the color grading world!
We all need to keep sharing and liking your videos so the RUclips algorithm help you get more subscribers. You always put out quality content that definitely deserves to be seen be millions of people! 🫡👏🏽
Just curious, what would be your input color space and input gamma if you use CSTs?
Great question! Blackmagic footage can be tricky. You're more than likely going to have to follow the same routine that I demonstrated with the input color space using project level color management. Try some different combinations until you find a result that feels right for your material. Hope that helps!
Hi Cullen, thank you for sharing your knowledge. How do ou think one should handle DNG files from a Blackmagic Production 4K camera ? and the original 1080p camera ? Would you also suggest using the color gen 1 ? Thank you.
The same principles apply to color grading DNG files. I would suggest upgrading to latest firmware and using whatever latest color science available, or using the latest color science that looks good to you.
how can I contact you for a potential cooperation?
One thing I have been wondering is when using LUT's in the Timeline section, where does this node place itself in the overall grade? For example when using Denoise it's recommended for optimization to put that as the very first node, and something like Sharpen or Grain on the last node.. Where does this node sit on that timeline? Or does it work in a different way altogether and not affect the grading process?
I believe Timeline nodes are applied after everything else. You can create a group from several clips, then you will be able to create a node tree which will be applied before individual clips’ nodes.
Do clip and timeline levels fall under the overall color management in project settings?
I’m having to do input and output transforms at the node level and want to know if my output transform should go in the clip level or timeline level. (Davinci isn’t allowing overall color management with vlog from my lumix s5ii, so I’m forced to manage at the node level).
спасибо!
It's incredibly weird to be working with BRAW and then literally not look at the RAW tab in Resolve. While BRAW "technically" isn't RAW, the RAW decoding section is incredibly relevant to selecting precisely how you want it to decode. Which then affects the input color space in the color management section.
Because I've been enjoying using ARRI's tools, I actually decode BRAW into LogC3. From here in the project settings you can have your timeline colorspace in LogC3 and the input color space as LogC3 and use ARRI's LUTs (that are free) to get a powerful look you want quickly and easily.
This is generally what I'm doing with all cameras now - and as Cullen says "a image centric workflow" instead of a "camera centric workflow". This works regardless of original color space and gamma. I've even done this workflow on 8-bit Sony files and it works fantastically well, provided the camera was setup properly to begin with and is also inside what an 8-bit camera can reasonably provide.
I"m not sure but I don't think the footage in the video was BRAW. It was some flavor of ProRes.
It's a good thing BMD switched their cameras to basically all shoot BRAW and make it so your workflow is effectively the default (you're always aware of what color space you're decoding to and you can choose to adapt to your preferred pipeline). In this video, Cullen must be applying "guess and check" because he's dealing with Prores clips. If they're straight out of camera, you could probably skip that step and find the color space in the metadata tags, but god forbid the clips were transcoded to prores by someone else and you have no idea what settings they used.
Hey cullen, I was wondering why do we have apply resize transformations as gamma. Why not log or any other option?
DaVinci Resolve Reference Manual p. 224 might shed some light:
Ordinarily, resizing is done in Linear, but certain specialty workflows benefit from doing
resizing in other color spaces, so this option lets you choose which is best. The available options are:
- Timeline: Uses the Timeline Color Space to perform all resizing operations.
- Log: Uses a Log Color Space for resizing. Good for avoiding artifacts in certain
high-contrast images, such as titles and star fields.
- Linear: Usually provides the best results with most SDR media.
- Linear Mapped: Usually provides the best results with most HDR media.
- Gamma: Provided in case you find a need for this option.
- Gamma Mapped: Usually provides best results when mixing SDR media with
wide gamut and log-encoded media on the same timeline.
@@KaurH Hey thanks a lot! I actually forgot they had a manual. 4000 pages tho :'(
@@Crimbtw Ctrl/Cmd + F is your biggest friend!
@@Crimbtw I don't think most people use it as a resource to read starting page 1 and then through the whole thing. It's a very well tabulated .pdf file. You can go through and find the subject topics that you want to learn about. So far there is only one topic I haven't found the information, precisely, how Resolve handles something.
@@JeremiahBostwick I see, I thought people read the whole thing😭 but for now on i will use that as a resource to find information about resolve :D
a useful lesson, since you often come across a similar question: and in what color space the material was shot.... Answer... mmmm...
But isn't there anywhere you can see all the camera metadata including all the camera settings? I cant find it in the clip info or in the media pool or anywhere?
There is. Check the metadata panel. The color space and gamma for any clip from a BMD camera will be shown there. It's not necessary to blindly apply IDTs as shown in this video. Cullen is great and is just unfortunately wrong here. None of us is infallible.
@jamielejeune I did check and there's nothing there. I got the footage from the Blackmagic site
@@mrfroopy Do you have a link? And are you making sure to select "all groups" in the metadata panel?
One of the things you mentioned is not knowing in what color space your own camera shoots. I asked myself this question after watching your video on color management and I have to admit I'm not 100% sure. Where can I find in what color space I shot?
Many cheaper cameras can only shoot Rec.709, but with cameras that shoot log, it depends on the camera brand and the specific model and if you have actually switch on log.
If you have switched log on, but the specific type of log isn't named in the camera, you can google around to find the type. For example Sony cameras tend to shoot S-Gamut3 (or S-Gamut3.Cine depending on the selected profile) S-Log3
@@KaurH I'm shooting with a blackmagic pocket 6k camera
@@freneticallyYT In that case, if you have set your dynamic range option to "Film", and are not baking in the LUT, the input color space will be
Blackmagic Design Wide Gamut Gen 4 / 5
Blackmagic Design Film Gen 5
Why not just to start with Davinci automatic Color Management as a starting point?
Hey Yevgen! The automatic check box is definitely an option! It would require that the metadata is correct and in my experience, I would rather have the ability to declare that information to the software myself.
@@CullenKelly thanks, i guess with experience one can do that. I remember that with time i began perceiving colors better but still learning. I guess the eye should learn with time.
Again, Cullen, a great teaching. But I do have questions that I trust you might cover in Grade School sometime. I am confused with “Tone Mapping” in the Color Space Transform in the Group Pre-clip and Timeline. I understand matching the Input Gamma to the camera that shot the footage and using Output Color Space to be DWG and Output Gamma to be DaVinci Intermediate, then going from DWG to display device Rec.709 at the end of the process. (Thank you for the great explanations you have made in previous videos).
My problem is what do I expect to achieve with each item in Tone Mapping? For instance, if I use other than DaVinci for the Tone Mapping Method and instead use one of the others from the drop-down menu, like Luminance with various Max. Input (nits), what should I expect? The same goes for Max. Output.
Then there is Gamut Mapping Method: None, Saturation Compression, Clip. What’s happening?
Finally, could you explain the Advanced checkboxes at the bottom and what I should expect from each of them. This seems like a long series of questions so anything you can cover would be greatly appreciated. Les.
You are over-complicating the whole thing a bit.
Since the release of the first Ursa Mini 4.6k in 2016/2017 all cameras add the used color science version into the ProRes footage's metadata under Color Space notes. For BRAW you can check the firmware version under "Camera Firmware" metadata.
Overall you can use these information I've compiled for you:
Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5k & Original Pocket (have Color Science Gen 1):
Color Space: BM Film Gen 1 | Gamma: BM Film |
Finally❤❤❤
Haha. I’ve been waiting for this too hehe
I must say. I really love your tutorial. ❤
But there's something that's a bit of concern to me. At the timeline level, can you be more detailed on creating a look, without using LUTS.
It'll really help and make you standout more.
Thank you 🙏
Just for general context. Imagine LUTs as a packaged preset. If you apply a LUT you apply a bunch of actions/settings at once. That comes with the benefit of being able to skip lots of steps bei pasting (even copying) looks and apply them on the fly or taking a look to different people/DAWs. But that comes with drawbacks like the need to use the exact right lut that fit to your situation (like G-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3 to rec.709 Gamma2.4) and if its not made specifically for that, its probably gonna look strange or not ideal. Also you can only adjust the strength but cant change any of parameters this LUT adjusts. A colorist does all these things manually (for the most part) and is therefore able to adjust everything and even to create a LUT from the grade he/she did.
By the way I have one question : when using CST's (especially for BM footage) we get to pick the colorspace AND gamma in input. But with the project level settings it only allows to pick one colorspace. Should we assume that Resolve is automatically picking the right gamma curve for the chosen colospace ? What if we pick the wrong gamma for a chosen colorspace in CSTs ? That's the confusing part for me xD Especially with BM again, because if we take Arri Wide Gamut, we know that it's either log C3 or log C4. But with BM there are so many options for gamma curves too, is there a chart that can tell us which gamma is associated with which colorspace ? Thx !
That's a great question .i have always have this question in mind too
Guessing this video was more for people who get handed ProRes files without documentation.
At least on BRAW footage, there's plenty of information in the video file's metadata. And I rarely, if ever shoot on anything other than BRAW if I can help it. At least on my camera. In my testing, the 12:1 BRAW is good enough, and more flexible than 4K ProRes 4:4:4 and even smaller file sizes.
Pretty sure there's stuff in metadata to read for footage recorded to ProRes in camera as well. But I can't swear to that.
Also, in the color page, for raw footage, there's the tab that lets you see what space and gamma it was shot in and you can change it there per clip if you want to.
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Also... people who don't document these settings should not be trusted with these cameras :P
Imagine having a film crew where you ask "what was this footage shot on?" answered with a shrug "Idon'tknow, the thing rattled as it used to whan I pressed record."
hm.. your test footage is in Apple ProRes 422 and not in BRAW...
Most BMD cameras film in ProRes as an option and I know a lot of DPs that prefer it in many situations. If the footage was in BRAW than this video would be pointless because the Color Space is in the Camera Adjustments tab lol
@@FreelanceBrian I own a 6k and I always shoot in braw. ProRes is just a better option if storage space is an issue. color grading 16 bit raw footage vs 12 log footage is a massive difference and another world.
so by adding a lut at timeline, then the rest does not apply to the rest of us
YES!!!!!!!!!!
dude, over 9 min in and you haven't started grading on a 12min video...cmon man.
pls make a video for lumix v log footage also
Same as you would literally any other camera. Input v-log, grade, done. V-log-L if it's a GH5.
Boys and girls, do note that inputdrt is set to NONE. This is crucial. If you leave it on davinci , the rolloff is completely different
When you say. Color space from the camera when shooting what do you mean ? How do u know. Nothing in camera says “Color Space” 😆
I think it means cst in the effects of the davinci effects tool (color space T )
Am I the only one that has to lower the low-end of the red curve automatically with BMPC4K?
Material lol It's footage! Everyone else says FOOTAGE!!!
Sorry to disappoint!
This is why ProRes is such an embarrassing format to shoot in. BRAW has the camera and color science metadata baked in.
Also, Gen. 1 color science was released in 2012 - really baffled how/where did you find footage that ancient. The successor, Gen 3 released in 2016 as far as I can tell.
All the ProRes clips from all Blackmagic Cameras contain color space and gamma metadata. Open the metadata panel of Resovle and you will see it there.
Vague or little explanation at all levels.
You tied EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE option???? SO SO SO many ways to find out what BM Camera/space it was recorded in. And you did this to promote some kind of rant? Run out of ideas for your videos? Or are you that clueless and have nothing else to do in your free time?
Yes, I have much free time and I love wasting it…especially when I get heartfelt encouragement like this 😂
Bruder laber doch nicht