The biggest color grading mistake on YouTube
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2022
- Even big RUclipsrs teaching people how to color grade get this one wrong.
___
Get my free Kodak 2383 film print LUT for DWG and ACES here:
procolor.ist/freelut 
Развлечения
![Sean Rii, Karyon, Sharzkii - Taungule [My Love] (Official Music Video)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJoMuypbSzQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As a developer who wrote color management code and worked on color camera and display calibration, it hurts every time I see tutorials on how to "grade" images using curves and saturation, ending up with most of the colors being off due to mismatched primaries.
Then when watching content I see so many being only the log image with a bit of contrast added, it's crazy.
Something I found effective is to describe a colorspace or log as "encoding": it often helps understanding what it is, as well as why it requires a specific "decoding" to get the normal colors back.
Then grading, and output transform, in that order.
I think this is because a lot of beginners (or people who don't want to or have time to dive into color management and grading) find it extremely confusing. If the world of standards wasn't bad enough, here you have 1 million ways to set up attributes to get the image right - or wrong. For someone who just wanna shoot some vlogs and get footage out of the door, the contrast plus saturation gets them "back" to what they saw... ish.
In the end, I guess we need to be aware of the differences between scientifically correct, which is important in a professional setting, vs. just getting something to look OK for your RUclips channel without investing in a Ph.D. in Color.
We also need to be critical of what we watch. Amateurs should also be allowed to make tutorials on what works for them even if it is incorrect. Then it is up to the person watching (and other professionals who can supply additional information, like the video we just watched) to digest the material.
Lots of people who aren't professionals just want a one-click solution.
And what makes the matter worse, is that people that don't know what they doing, paired with customers that don't know what they want ultimately create a trend to a point where when other clients see it, they want it because its different, i had people request the "Smokey look" lol
the camera file defines black and white at an specific luminance level in the file… why is that so? why doesnt the file just leaves it as it is to max black and max white? if we change the display format like rec 2020 HDR and so on, the levels dont change. So for me, the coded form of light in the file doesnt make the image more flexible for different colorspaces.??
So CST node to Widegamut, grade, then final CST to Rec 709 for the output?
@@Fireandagrill yes or in my case transform to Rec.2020 PQ last, with RUclips SDR preview with a custom LUT to check.
Im new to colour grading. On every forum Ive visited, they all recommend you. I understand why!
I have been going through your videos all week. I greatly appreciate that you share your knowledge and experience with us common folk. 🙂
Thanks a lot!
Very classy and concise, Cullen!
Thanks for helping us understand the world of color science. Please don't stop putting out videos.
I'm looking forward to Grade School this Friday!
Each video is so clear to understand. I have been pretty much terrified of grading my own documentary film but since I invested in a Tangent Ripple , I have decided to learn the basics of colour grading and to be completely honest, it was not until I started watching your videos that I now have some understanding how how to start the process of colour grading so thanks Cullen truly appreciated dude.🙂👍
Great work Cullen (and great meeting you at ResolveCon).
As a beginner that has been shooting with one of the prolific pro-sumer cameras available and having recently started using log, I will offer that one of the big hurdles to cross towards working in a Color Managed environment is figuring out what Input Color Space to use. My new camera for instance has three different log profiles and three different color space options for a total of nine different combinations. For me, the biggest head-scratcher wasn't figuring out how to set up Resolve to switch to Color Management (thanks to your excellent presentations) but rather learning to set my camera to record in a log profile and color space that Resolve has an option for within the Input Color Space dropdown. I know you don't do camera tutorials, but its food for thought. I'm probably not the only rookie that is (or in my case 'was') unaware of the myriad of options to sort out before even pushing the record button.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Keep 'em comming!
Brilliant!! I came across your 'Color Management' videos a couple of weeks ago. I tried it out and to my great satisfaction clicking on 'Save', it was like snapping my fingers and 'poof', like magic, realization! In the past 6 months I've searched through countless videos and I'm quite surprised of how many 'pros' do not teach this. 6 months is a short time, better late than never!
Really great succinct, clear, wonderful explanations! You are truly great at translating color management into digestible bites. I don't use Resolve, but I've had to explain this concept frequently and wow you knocked it out of the park.
Can not thank you enough . Watching your video and learning is life changing !!!! Thank you every day ❤
Its people like you that make me happy I live in a world where technology like RUclips exists. I'm new to grading and don't know where to start, but I've watched probably 3+ hours of your stuff up to now and I'm starting to get the foundations understood. Thank you for making this available and thank you for explaining things so well. Truly appreciated
This is the biggest thing Resolve ever did. Color managed is the way to go and this change was huge. Thanks for the tutorial. I think of Color Management as kind of a global lut.
Love your channel! Thanks, brother! Always educational!
Awesome video #CullenKelly, you are a great teacher, found you through Casey's channel. Was great to see you online at Resolvecon, love the way you explain the difference between color managment vs color grading, before your channel I always thought they were the same thing, this in intself is a game changer. Thank you as always!
Great tutorial - I've really enjoyed the deep dive technical aspects of colour grading on your channel as opposed to "get the X LoOk" on others...
the way I've been getting around the issue with the double transform in a colour managed work flow is a little convoluted but works for me, and thats a series of CSTs with the cineonlog transform at the end before the lut, working in the middle in a DWG node tree, A hybrid of scene/display refereed I believe.
This is great information and make *total sense!* This info would have helped with issues on my last project where I did the initial grade by hand that I could have done with color management! This will save a crap-ton of time in the future!
Amazing insigh and perspective, skilfully articulated. NICE!
I have to say Cullen, that it's been a long time since I have seen youTubers doing the LOG to rec709 using the primaries and sat/contrast method. Maybe a few years ago. But most, even the simplest of youTuber tutorials are telling people to use transforms- granted they don't always teach that correctly, but rare to see the old way taught anymore.
Hey Jim, in what way are RUclipsrs using transforms wrong?
@@milquetoes I am commenting in reference to ones I have seen in the past- I don't actually take notes, so the actual ways are sometimes learned incorrectly from a youtuber learning from another youTuber.
I am an admin for the "Davinci Resolve User Group" and we have 114k members and approx 40k posts and comments per week. So when anyone ( at any level ) posts a tutorial that they have made for youtube- in most cases I watch them. This ends up over a year being hundreds ( maybe thousands ) of tutorials on Davinci Resolve.
so my comment above is not aimed at any memorable or well known youtubers that I can name off hand.
But in general setting up the transforms is usually the problem and the reason for the transform and explanation of why they are using it, is a problem sometimes.
Duplication of wrong information that is regurgitated by some youtubers is like any information on social media, the source or logic is sometimes questionable.
Even if many don't show this mistake any more. Many people like myself who thought what they learned years ago is correct may still be doing it and may not think to update their knowledge. I was blown away by this video and I have been editing professionally for 7 years.
My workflow allows me to color grade my LOG footage with a 1 click application of my PowerGrade in Resolve (ruclips.net/video/3cGK2Ugnk64/видео.html) which features my custom LOG to Rec709 corrective LUT I created in Resolve using the DSC Labs ChromaMatch Pro color chart. Granted, this works because I know how to shoot my footage correctly in the field, but for dedicated colorists, they definitely can't rely on such a method. I do not use Color Space Transforms nor do I arbitrarily use primaries for the basic foundational corrective grade. There's a third way which I developed, but again it is only applicable if the camera operator shoots the footage correctly (exposes with middle grey, tone mapping and the Zone System in mind)
You’re amazing Color Grading Teacher!
Learning sooh much here. Thanks, and I'm going to try out this new (to me) approach.
Thanks also for the LUT.
What a great tutorial and valuable information. Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. I came to your channel today from Darren Moistyn advice
Hi Cullen, I just did the BMD color trainers course and in the book there’s a tip that we should always apply LUTs on the pre-clip level. Since in the exercise the color management is done on the project basis, I assume they are talking about creative LUTs.
I know you’re an advocate of grading upstream of a LUT, so could you please comment on that. Thanks :)
This worked incredibly well! I can finally play it thanks
Regret that I second guessed joining your course this year, but next year I will!!
It worked perfectly!!! Thank you so much
This needs to go viral. Pure gold (as always).
Thank you so much for such a heplful video. Is there any difference between this method and the method of using a node with Colour Space Transform for building the foundation?
Thank you so much this helped a lot!!!! You saved my life
I subscribed to your channel because Reolvecon. It was the first time I saw any of your content; and today's video.... AWESOME!
Have a Productive and Helathy Day!
That's definitely the type of content that should appear more often on youtube and socials instead of people just increasing contrast and saturation. Those are the people that make other beginners misunderstand color management. Great video Cullen.
By the way are the footage from a client's project or you picked up on a stock footage website like artgrid?
Excellent video. You’ve gotten me on a color managed workflow from here on out. One question though: I use filmconvert to add a film stock and grain. Is that the same as using a LUT with conversion baked in?
even those arri-c to rec709 creative luts can be made to work inside a color managed working space. You can make use of a CST in the node before (maybe even same node) to give it the color space it expects. You might still need to be careful as color managed usually has an output lut from working to rec709. So you might want to turn that off and manually use csts to 709.
If you have the tricks to avoid the double to 709 conversions. You might even work in the fully managed workflow.
Or you use a CST to HSL and then a splitter combiner (alt+y) to take out the luma component of a lut. And the apply just the hue and/or saturation adjustments.
Great lesson Cullen! I have a question: Where should the 2383 LUT live in the node tree in relation to CST´s? Thanks.
Hey Cullen, thank you so much for everything you do! Speaking of the RUclips, and seeing that you use a Mac for your work - can you please shed some light on Rec709-A? It's the first thing you notice when you start grading on a Mac, even having your display calibrated and color profiles applied to your viewers in DVR - the rendered result that you play in QuickTime and see in Safari on RUclips doesn't match what you saw in the viewer when you made creative decisions on contrast and exposure in particular, considering that you start with the default Rec709 Output. When you dive deeper, you realize that Mac has its own idea of what videos tagged as Rec709 should look like and you end up with results not matching your intentions. Then you realize that Apple's way seems to be using Rec709-A which I ended up using as my Display and Delivery color space so that at least within Apple ecosystem my videos would look the same. I believe it's not the case even for those who will watch it on Windows, is it? And then what strikes me more is that everyone says Rec709 is the most common universal standard for displays. Rec709 has a gamma close to 2.4 and the majority of consumer displays (I mean computer monitors) apart from TVs are meant for sRGB with 2.2 gamma. Then how can Rec709 2.4 be considered common and default when your display most likely won't handle it? What would be your advice on viewing and delivering the content intended for RUclips to have some consistency of the results and intentions? PS Bonus question - how can we add to that equation the fact that Mac's system color space is actually P3? Thank you in advance =)
Can you make a video on creating LUTS for your workflow, I currently use powergrades Ive saved from previous projects . I like having access to the layers/nodes to make tweaks if needed. Maybe that is the best way ?
Once again, thank you very much, Cullen! :-)
Awesome stuff! Thank you!
waiting for next grade school class...thank u sir♥
Hey Cullen, In my constant search for how to ACTUALLY get good edits done I found your channel.
THANK YOU!
I shoot with Sony, I have an a6400 (8-Bit Camera, I can shoot S-LOG 3 but, S-LOG 3 is for 10 bit, or so I've been told on youtube...), and the new FX30 (8 & 10 bit camera)
MY QUESTION is, if I want to film outside of a LOG format, and use like Cine 2, or something like that, HOW DO I COLOR MANAGE THESE?!
I like the Cine 2 look but, it's never consistent because I'm manually trying to match shots etc. I'm thinking about switching to S-LOG 2 on a6400 and s_LOG 3 on FX30 but, I feel like I may run into some matching issues there too... Not sure yet
I've literally searched and searched for days and days and I can't find a good answer anywhere. How do I set it up in Davinici 18 since it's not a LOG format, I've tried experimenting in Davinci and it seems like it's a constant battle and trade off between destroying one thing to make another thing look good.
I think there's a lot of people out there who shoot in something like Cine 2 that could find this info helpful and give us the ability to do it correctly if given the proper information on how to not destroy our images in these formats. lol
Thanks again, keep up the great work!
-Colton
This his so helpful ! I was struggling with colors by using "Primary Rec709" conversion, thanks for sharing you're knowledge ! Just a question I know it is not big drone but How did you set the colorspace for DJI Cinelike colors ? Feeling a bit stuck with DJI colors 😰
Hi Cullen,
what if you handle footage from different cameras, so e.g. different RAW-files in one project? If your preferences are once set in color management as you recommend, this wouldnt work.
What about doing the color management in Resolve on the color page using color space transition?
Thanks for your great efforts!!!
thanks a lot!!! so nice reverb
Awesome content! Question for you though. What about popular formats like DJI DLog-M and DJI DCinelike. How can we get those into color management?
Yo this guy is the real deal! Thank man!
Bro, thank you! As I'm starting to work with S-LOG with wedding videos, No ones talking about how do you batch convert all the shots to a normal baseline color science.
What's the difference between color managing the whole proj and using the color space transform fx clip by clip?
@@CullenKelly
Thanks! Keep up the good work!!
Amazing video thank you so much.👍
One thing that make me hesitate a bit to set the input format as a particular manufacturer is that question of what to do with projects with mixed cameras. But I have a sneaking suspicion that we can set input format on a clip by clip basis...
You should be able to choose a per-clip color space/input transform by right clicking on the clip in the color page and in the media pool.
@@thatcherfreeman
Yeah, that's probably what I'm thinking of. I didn't have my workstation at hand to look it up.
This is great, thank you!
Cullen, I think your talking head shots look just fine. I come to this channel for advice from a colorist, not a cinematographer. Thank you for the FREE information you give myself and the ungrateful children in the comments!
Hey, thank you for this amazing tutorial :)
One question, I use CST to convert my log signal to rec 709, and I saw in others tutorial that it's better to use CST node at the end of the node tree, to use da Vinci's tools on a log signal.
If I use CST, where should I use it on my node tree ? at the beginning ? or at the end ?
and if I use color management at a timeline level like you did, how does it work ? Thank you for your time
Lets keep on trucking!😄
before watching... I'm guessing it is "throw a LUT on it, and by the way I sell these LUTs you might be interested in..."
-OR
"just add contrast and sat"
I'll come back in a sec after watching to see how well this comment aged.
LOL, it didn't age that well.
Appreciate this! Im going to follow your method but just to be sure:
- How should I set up my color management if I am color grading mainly sLog3 footage with a small mix of other media (iphone, goPro, canon 8, 360 cam, etc) and I am grading on an apple display and my main destination is RUclips but I still want it took look as good/comparable on tvs/other non apple displays?
I see tutorials that say to use a CST towards the end of the node tree, or to use Rec-709A for the input and output color space, and now I see your method and I wonder am I grading on top of a CST by doing this. Sorry if this is a dumb question. Theres too many options! Please make it stupid simple or refer me to the video of yours that will answer my question.
I Wish you had a buy me coffee link :)
Hi sir, your videos are very informative thankyou for sharing your knowledge. I'm a beginner in color grading I need to know about your book "10 commandments", is it only for those who already learned color grading or is it for beginners most preferred?
Aside from the color management settings, what are other settings to consider (render page) in order to get a consistent look with the rendered image. You know…that persistent issue we Mac users deal with-having a lighter or “washed out” looking final image.
@@CullenKelly thanks for the reply. I honestly didn’t know if I’d get one. Also, I posted pretty much the same question on another video of yours-your talk on Color Management. You can disregard haha. That was probably the most articulate explanation on the subject that I have seen yet. Great presentation.
can you tell me the explanation please? I don't see the Cullen answer
Thank you for that video Cullen as i´m really interested in that color manegement thing (as a very amateur...)
And as such i´m filming with my old Gopro Hero 7 and have no idea at all to what to set the input color space, is there a chance you would help me out please?
Thank you in advance ;-)
What to do with a footage if there's no appropriate option for "Input color space"? For example I've got a footage from a DJI drone shot in D-Cinelike (not D-Log)
Thanks so much!
Thank you!
Hey Cullen, Thank you for the efforts you put on these lessons. Quick question, how do you deal with clog and cinestyle footage ?
@@CullenKelly alright thanks will give it a shot and c if I can match my canon r6 and 7dmark 2 footage
Thanx! Very useful!
You mentioned a video of what to do when you have multiple cameras. I’m grading with the R5, a drone and a GoPro. Could you lead me to that video so I know what to do after setting the main colour management?
absolutely awesome!
What differentiates this from starting with a CST finishing node (other than color management being a global application to all timeline clips)?
This is a great video. My main question is how do you overcome the difficulties in keying and Vs curves when working in log gamma?
I'm hoping that my understanding of the colour management settings happens after the colour page is correct.
@@CullenKelly Thanks so much for your response and all of the content you provide!
this is awesome, one question though, in terms of using the Film Looks luts or other luts, can't I just use a CST node on the top of my grade to convert to the color space needed for a specific LUT? and then put the lut on top of that one?
Hey Cullen I keep running into the same issue, I make sure I have done the same as you (apart from my input colour space which in my case is FujiF-Log) I then hit save and its only effects the look of my image the slightest bit, very far from your results. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong? Thanks
I think a fundamental issue we're missing is "What the camera sees." In this video you chose one of two Arri spaces (around 5:46). There are several BM spaces. I shoot on a BM and I've never seen any options to, say, shoot in Gen 5. So when I go to set my input, I'm just guessing. I think every grading video I've watched, this is glossed over. I've watched as many of your vids as I can find as your teaching style is far and away the best but I don't recall seeing this answer anywhere. A dedicated video (if you don't already have one out) about WHY certain options are chosen would be 🎆🎆🎇🎇
Excellent tutorial for a beginner with Davinci Resolve like me however, in the Second method of Setting up Resolve YRGB Colour Management, after checking the "Default" checkbox I am unable to right click on my Video clip in the timeline (as you have shown in the video wherein one can see the video frames in the Timeline and when you right click on the same you get an option to choose the Input Colour (in your case you have chosen Arri) however I see an entirely different Timeline (blue band) and I do not get any options when I right click on that. Could you please share the what mistake am I doing as the video timeline view in my case is different . Than you.
Hell yeah man good work
Not a pro at all but looking to enhance myself I tried figuring this out for my Sony a7c footage and couldn’t figure out what input Color space to use. Is this even an option for video shot in Cine2 and HLG3 instead of Slog3? So far I have used this as my camera is 8 bit only and I have used Leeming LUTs following Paul’s instructions to make life easier.
really good video that i wished i discovered earlier!
Would it not be possible this color managed space to then add a cst with output to cineon log then apply a lut like the 2383?
What color space should I use for GoPro video with flat picture style?
I think that many people are feared by the wrong thought that color management would affect the starting point of color grading, as I used to think before my teacher taught me during my film academy journey. It’s important to say that when you convert from log to rec709, and then you start to build your nodes, YOU ARE NOT working on a rec709 basis, but YOU JUST SEE that image in REC709 even if you’re still working with your LOG image (taking all the benefits that it has). Trust me, many people think they would loose the versatility of the log if they convert in rec709, that’s why they don’t do it!
I’ve shyed away from LUTs because I did not know how to apply them properly and they messed up my little projects. However now that I am progressing on my learning curve using Resolve I have learned the benefits of good colour management. I come at it a different way, but the result is still the same (CST node).
May I ask what kind of artistic LUTs I should be looking for that play nicely with good colour management, and how I would best go about adding those LUTs to my node tree?
BTW I thoroughly enjoyed the three of you shooting the breeze during your Resolvecon session. 😊
@@CullenKelly Good evening sir and thank you for replying. I will of course take a look at your LUT pack and how it could help me with my little hobby of making RUclips episodes for my personal amusement.😀
However there is one task/skill that I would like to learn and that would be to get a simple Orange/Teal look. I just don't know where to start reserching this project and RUclips is awash with pseudo "Pro Colourists" giving conflicting advice.
Cheers
@@CullenKelly Thank you for that very useful piece of advice about Orange/Teal which explains why I could not see the wood for the trees. And probably explains why my attempts look like s dog’s dinner.
I shall stick with the basics rather than trying to find a unicorn quick fix. It just so happens that I like Resolve’s interpretation of Panasonic’s colour space for my consumer camera. I’ll stick to what I’m good at, which is colour correction. And I’ll leave colour grading to the grown up’s.
Even so, I still enjoy watching your episodes. Little nuggets of information fall into place as my level of understanding gradually expands. 😀
So how is this way of color managing different to using a color space transform node? I often have projects with multiple camera's so this color management won't work for me I feel. Also you can still use the film luts by using a CST.
Am I missing something? It seems CST's are just better for my projects. Would love to hear your thoughts on this!
*Pasted from cullens other reply
1) The Kodak 2383 LUT in Resolve is
meant to receive Cineon primaries, even
though it's said to receive Rec709. It can
lead to a lot of color issues (maybe
you've noticed some weird browns/
yellows/greens using it), and it's not
accurate if you're looking for a solid film
emulation.
2) If you have a job that needs more
than a Rec709 deliverable, you're stuck.
You can't add another CST after the LUT
to bring it to an HDR grade. When you
have a scene-referred LUT, you're able
to create a grade for any display, nearly
with the flip of a CST setting (though
you'll want to do a quick trim pass to
make sure everything is right where you
want it.) If you want to go back to a
project later and export a new version to
look good on new displays, same
problem.
Please help! A beginner in color grading here, trying to understand which output gamma setting to use: 2.2, 2.4 or use Rec.709-A (whatever gamma that one has). The more I read, the more confused I am. I would really appreciate if you could help me choose the correct setting, without me having to take a PhD in color science. I'm more interested in the "what" and less interested in the "why", so short answers are very welcome.
I'm grading on a macbook air (without a separate monitor) and delivering to the internet (youtube and social media, perhaps also vimeo). All I want is to have an identical looking image when grading, when viewing the exported file (in quicktime in my case), and when uploaded to the internet. In my testing, Rec.709-A has been the only one to look correct in quicktime, and one source said it's good for youtube as well. Gamma 2.2 exports look completely washed out in quicktime, and 2.4 looks better but still not correct (lifts the blacks). Therefore I've been using Rec.709-A so far.
However, I've read that 709-A has its limitations (on windows, vimeo and certain web browsers apparently) and gamma 2.2 seems to be the standard for web(?). Therefore I'm having "trust issues" with 709-A. As long as I'm grading on a mac screen and delivering for web, I want to make sure I have one single gamma setting that I can use consistantly on all projects. (Now obviously I'm not grading for netflix or TV in the near future, so I guess 2.4 is not even relevant for me?)
is there a hack to see how i can preview what color managed will do to my footage in camera? using a bmpcc 6kg2 (what a effing name for a camera eh?)
Hi, can you help with this? I have footage shot in the canon log and also rec 709. How would I set up colour management? Would it be better to set colour science to Davinci YRGB and timeline to Davinci WG intermediate? and use CST? Also, is it better to convert REC 709 to Davinci WG with a CST. and back to 709 after colour grading?
Thanks.
Malcolm
What I've done is set the project colour science to Davinci YRGB, make groups for each camera's clips, then use a CST in the Group-Pre-Clip. I don't promise this is the right / best way to do it.
@@verybutton thanks did not think of groups. But logically makes sense.
Thank you
Cullen, when I set up my two color transform color nodes on my BMPCC 4k clips based timeline, I set the first one's "input color space" to "Blackmagic Design Wide Gamut Film Gen4/5", input gamma to "Blackmagic design film", output color space to "Davinci wide gamut" and output gamma to "Davinci intermediate", then as per your advice of output transform, I set the input colour space for that node to "Davinci wide gamut", input gamma to "davinci intermediate", output color space to "rec709" and output gamma to "gamma 2.4", but on doing this, my blacks don't appear as black, they're still somewhat closer to log, but not exactly pure log type image that I started with. What am I doing wrong here? Footage is from bmpcc 4k, in Film mode.
hi i'm new to Davinci Resolve. my question is does this method works with 8bit flat profile footage? thx.
RCM essentially requires that the camera manufacturer has publicly published (or communicated with Blackmagic) the scene reflectance transfer function (mapping from the camera's code values to the quantity of light seen by the sensor) and color primaries (xy coordinates for RGB and white point). These specs are often published for log encodings, but "flat" or "standard" are not standardized in any way and you can't use that footage with RCM in a principled way.
Does it work with 8-bit log formats? Yes, but inherently 8-bit log (like S-Log 3) is succeptible to banding in some situations so it might not make an appealing image even if it's doing the right transforms.
@@thatcherfreeman so what color science do i have to choose? Davinci YRGB?
@@mrsnoo86 yeah, you would choose DaVinci YRGB and grade in the "display referred" way shown in the video, but next time you should try to record in a log format and ideally with a camera that shoots at least 10-bit video
Thank you for this video ! I have a question on color management, when we do corrections on the grades, are we applying them after the REC709 conversion or before ?
after
Probably a silly question but i wondered if you use colour management so the footage is already normalized, are you effectively working downstream of a technical CST? Some people like to use a CST at the end of the node tree and make adjustments before it?
@@CullenKelly ok cool, Thankyou for your reply
Cullen , Thanks for this. A question though, another method I've been recommended is in settings to stay in DaYRGB -timeline color space Davinci WG/Intermediate-output Rec.709 gamma 2.4 . Then in nodes a color space transform to rec709 another node transform to Cineon Film Log & then the Kodak film LUT node. I've tried this & your method & they definitely react differently. I'm wondering what the advantages are to either in actual outcome?
Cullen, I meant to say that I saw your live stream the other day & you answered this. I’d say I’m only a beginner at all of this & it feels like a rabbit hole for me 12 months on. However you are the only person I’ve found explaining this . Much appreciated
why not using color space transform OFX to do the basic correction inside the color managed workflow and then switch back to log (or whatever input color space your LUT assumes) incorporate the LUT this way. Easy set up and you get the best out of both worlds - WITHOUT losing any image quality!
What do you do when you´re using footage from different cameras like Canon Clog2 + Clog3 + Sony Slog 3??
Yeah, I completely agree with problem #1 BUT!
I shoot in ZLog2 … camera colour science that won’t be supported in DR anytime soon.
And the plug-in the manufacturer, Z-Cam, has release is garbage - buggy, unstable and slow.
I wish I had a solution other than using a curve…
@@shebbe is there a good tutorial online that shows the setup process? I’m not sure I’m doing it properly. Thanks!
@@shebbe I don't know if I've followed correctly but for what I can see, what I'm getting is pretty impressive. Thanks!!
I would love to migrate to RCM or ACES but I work a lot with VFX and mates and they just get bugged on those systems. Ive tried a couple of times but always end up crunching and bypassing shots. How has your experience with these issues been? Ive gotten weird black borders on aces and I cant tell RCM that a particular mate is in another color space. Hopefully I'm doing something wrong.
You might benefit from controlling RCM or ACES manually through nodes rather than by using the project settings. Then you can control exactly how mattes and whatnot are processed rather than relying on any form of automation to guess color spaces or whatever.
Doing it in nodes as the other commenter suggested is a decent way around it. I’ve built a few Fusion macros that fix the color issues we’ve experienced when trying to use text or footage in RCM. There are a couple of good videos that tackle this floating around on RUclips if you’re interested in such a fix.
@@thatcherfreemanYes thanks I know this workaround however I use Groups and Timline nodes to Look dev and when you have something like a 2600 shot documentary with different sources it gets really difficult to manage the look and all the color space transformations. RCM is supposed to help in that aspect. But yeah I might try it down the road. Problem is when ever you stray from rec709 2.4 resolve starts to show its teeth. Thats why I dont incorporate new tools into my workflow nothing like realizing something that you used in 500 shots is broken.
@@andrewjeffreys We do a lot of conforming and final deliveries in my suite so having text not working or any kind of surprises like that are really inconvenient. As I said in my other comment I have tried it in the past but got complicated fast. Might try it again in the future. And im interested in those fixes. I normally work with mattes in the color tab do you do all this in fusion?
Thank you Cullen for every precious information you share with us. For anyone reading, can you suggest me the correct workflow (if exists) to use a Film emulation plugin like Dehancer with the Color management concepts that this video is about? I've set up the CM as Cullen explain but I'm struggling to understand what I have to setup in Dehancer (in the Input panel). I'm obtaining horrible results. I've also tried in the CM to choose "Cineon film log" as output color space but didn't solved. Thank you
You'd set your input color space to be your footage's color space, then you're output would be set to Rec709 or whatever your display is. You should set your timeline color space to DaVinci WG/Intermediate and then set up Dehancer so that its input and output match your timeline color space.
I have not used dehancer specifically, only other similar plugins, but in this workflow, your input and output color space on the plugin would have to match the timeline space in the CM settings, so in the case of Cullen's example DaVinciWG intermediary. you could also do a node base CM workflow (cullen has many example of this in his videos) and put the plugin after the output transform.
Great video.
I have just one question:
What should I don't know what format of the source images is?
Sadly, I have no way of asking the person that recorded it.
Hey Cullen, thanks for this very informative video, I indeed was taught by my colourist teacher to do primaries by hand! Learning something new every single day.
But I am having a real question, which I’ll need to try it out next time on my PC, how does Colour Management work with a project that uses different cameras? Say, bmpcc 6k & arri alexa mini? It seems as though this method only works with having a project that uses the very same camera all the way through, isn’t?
Another concern/question, what if I am editing the full project on DaVinci Resolve (say I am in charge of the whole postproduction of one project), and I import let’s say stills, or logos, packshots which must not be altered? Will the colour management setup “touch/influence/bring modifications” to these? Little bit confused here. Or does DR understand to only take into considerations the log files when using colour management?
I’ll for sure go and watch your whole playlist on Colour Management as these questions may be answered there, let’s see!
Cheers
S.
Hi Sniickerz. If you have multiple cameras, especially those you mention, you can right-click the clip in the color page and see what color Davinci reads. Go to "Input Color Space". Your BRAW footage most likely already has Black Magic Design Color Science set up, the Arri has its ARRI logC3 maybe, and any other camera most likely picks up the correct one here. If you want to disable this, right-click and choose Bypass Color Management.
Note that BRAW footage doesn't show the input color space option when you right-click. I believe you have to go into the raw settings in the Camera Raw settings all the way to the left above the primaries, small camera icon there. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here :D
@@MartinAaberge thank you!! I wasn’t in front of the computer so I could not properly search and test, but glad there are options to « bypass » the Colour Management! Will try that next time on my computer 🥳
Cheers
S.
Some good stuff there, Cullen. But there are much bigger color grading mistakes on RUclips...
Great video!!
Super channel. Glad i found this. But i film with a leica sl2s, in l log but davinci doesnt have a profile (yet). What do i have to chose than? 😊
At this step, how would you deal with clips whos Log profile doesn't have a matching input color space?
What happens if you are using different colour profiles eg. Documentary footage shot on a Black Magic colourspace and Sony colourspace
I used color managed to edit, so i dont edit video in flat log profiles, but when it comes to grading i had problems with different types of codecs, like when you have braw, dji, some panasonic footage all on the same timeline
use CST node
You can set the input color space by right clicking the clip in rcm color tab.
WOW. This is a game changer.
thank you