Okay so if i dont do front squats cause they dont recruit those most muscle mass, then i wont do back squats either since it doesnt recruit as much as deadlifts do
@@insertnamehere2746 Comparing front squat and back squat in this context makes sense as they are both squats. Comparing squats and deadlifts in this contexts makes no sense as they are very different lifts with a different focus and different goals.
@@totallyfrozen except for the fact the back squat and deadlift are POSTERIOR CHAIN exercises. The deadlift is simply better at developing the posterior chain than backsquat is. Not only that, the Front squat is better at developing the anterior chain than backsquats are due to the higher emphasis on quadricep and core strength involved.
I feel like a lot of people that do variations like front squats are doing them because it's fun to have variety in your workouts. That's a good enough reason.
I do them because they have grown my quads and deadlift a ton. My hamstrings have always been far stronger than my quads, so something that doesnt hit them is what I need.
My understanding is that increased conventional deadlift provides significant work to Hamstrings while front squats have added benefits to flexibility, upper back muscles and posture as well as being easier to perform safely. That said, I get back squats are a must for powerlifters and generally maxing out squat weight, but beyond those contexts it doesn't seem nearly as optimal.
@@georgechristiansen6785 What do you mean by that? I know my comment is a few years old, but I've found personally that low bar back squats put my back at more risk than either high bar or front. In the past couple years I've come to believe a lot more that beyond horrendously dangerous things, individuality plays a pretty large part in better exercise selection.
@@nathantripathy You back is no more "at risk" doing low bar back squats than your biceps are at risk doing curls. In both case you have to do something stupid to get hurt. Both of those things make the muscles mentioned LESS at risk by strengthening them. Outside of a pre-existing injury that somehow prevents you from doing any low back loading, it is a form or programming issue, not exercise selection that makes back squats a low back risk. The back squat is objectively safer than a front squat because it requires less skill and coordination to keep the bar in a stable and safe position.
Don't agree at all. First, your average person will front squat quite a bit less than they back squat. But beyond that, if form breaks down too much in a front squat then the bar just falls down... In a back squat it's easy to have bad form and complete the lift. Also, as commented by the late Charles Poloquin, front squats are easier on your knees which is good for people like me with knee issues.
I'm NOT saying don't back squat btw. It's way more of a full leg workout and often shoulders and upper body are THE limiting factor when front squatting rather than the legs. But with my knees, front squats are the only ones that don't give me trouble 😭
Also back squats are more easily fucked in technique which leads to lower back pain because too much ego lifting makes us put more weight than we can handle on our backs. This in turn destroys your lower back because the bar does not travel in a straight line up and down instead you tip forward or backwards
I do Pavel's Simple and Sinister kettlebell program which is 100 kettlebell swings, that handles my hamstring and glutes. I do the front squats to give my quads some love. Front squats are also beneficial to combat athletes because it heavily emphasizes the core.
Stefan Wolf exactly bro hamstrings are easy to target with other exercises. Rip is just a little narrow minded but I understand where he is coming from get the most out of your routine but honestly variety makes exercise more fun plus like you said core stability is immensely important in all aspects of life even to combat lower back pain which is very common in our society thanks to a sedentary lifestyle.
Same here, I have a tiny torso and long legs, back squats didnt do much at all for my legs, fronts squats have made my quads bigger and also are easier to coordinate with heavy deadlifts
Hi Rip, I agree that hamstrings must be emphasized heavily, which is why my new program consists solely of hamstring curls, good mornings, and banded clam shells. The backs of my legs are so fucking huge it's ridiculous. Thank you for this inspiration!
Can't tell if serious or taking the piss, but you certainly can develop a big strong posterior chain with these exercises, so long as progressive overload/eccentric overload/metabolic overload is applied
When it comes to my training, I think it makes a lot of sense to do front squats with conventional deadlifts for one training block, and then do back squats with sumo pulling. This way you always balance out how much you're working the back in relation to gleuts and hamstrings
Low bar squat and deadlift use same muscle groups though. Choose on or the other or do both but as variation. If both are main lift you would train same muscle group twice.
Also I have for a long time in my program paired DL and FS so may it can from here lol since it shows i did like it and the first reply whenever I saw this in the past
I get what he’s saying, and I don’t fundamentally disagree, but front squats work great as a companion to deadlifts. If you’re doing deadlifts and squats on the same day, front squats are often a better option because they’re easier in your back.
The only case where this would be necessary though would be when you are doing a high-ish volume of deadlifting, which almost nobody need to do. The deadlift is the least technical lift and the most systemically taxing, so it makes sense to do less volume of it, but you need a certain amount of volume work for those muscles, so you get it via lighter squats on deadlift days.
Front squats feel far better on my knees (which are pretty jacked up.) So i deadlift, weighted chin/pull up, OHP, FS, bench as my main compounds. DL, RDL and leg curls are enough hammy work.
So will I from now on. I dropped them after the lockdowns ended, or rather forgot to do them. Months in I was wondering why my DL and Oly squat were not going far. Added in heavy front squats and I am back on track. I am always stronger when I am front squatting.
@@Mks25932 so you're saying just because a freak of nature doesn't front squat no one should because there isn't any carry over; and what works for one person works for all? I can get behind the average person sticking to the basics but if you've been in the game for a while and are branching out to try and work through sticking points and to overall become better at strongman than front squats should be rotated into training cycles...
lol because you can do them on deadlift days and they focus on the quads/ core. FS's are amazing. They're good for beginners as well as they teach them how to brace properly.
And while we're at it, omit overhead pressing - it uses less muscle than the bench in the pressing pattern, and you're not one of the 87 Olympic lifters that needs to catch a jerk. (Or maybe there is more to it than that . . . )
I agree. I get much more out of pressing behind the neck when it comes to shoulder development ... beyond that, I get a lot more out of doing a bench variation 3x per week than going A/B style with OHP
Olympic weightlifters hardly train ohp. It has little carryover to the jerk but that doesnt mean its not a great exercise. I’d argue its better than the bench because you can’t internally rotate the shoulder until pressed overhead(which is optimal btw), you’re getting more from less weight, you’re building the triceps which is the prime mover in the bench, you get more upper back recruitment and you have to stabilize the trunk through the press. Better exercise in those regards. Rip and his followers are just dogmatic
I primarily do front squats. I've always appreciated the discipline involved in doing a heavy front squat clean and correct. You really can't "cheat" heavy front squats...
If I do only low bar squat for too long I HAVE to add front squats because of the over emphasis on posterior chain at the detriment of the anterior chain. It's the only way I stay pain free throughout the entire progression
FS - looks manly and no need to do abs exercise. When you suck at it like me - only way to get better is get strong core by front squatting. That's it. I will swallow the pride and squat with the pocket weights on the bar... It is what it is.
I do them to reduce lower back fatigue. I've got a short torso and long legs, so I'm VERY horizontal in the low-bar squat. This lets me get another squat session in without being too fried to hit my low-bar or deadlift workouts.
That is because you do not eat enough, hence your waist is too thin, hence weak abdominals and spinal erectors, hence when you squat heavy they are unable to stabilize your spine. So what you should do is not changing to front squats, but having 8eggs for breakfast together with some toast and oatmeal.
The front squat doesn't have much emphasis on the hamstrings, but the deadlift does, & the deadlift & the low bar squat are similar, emphasising muscles in the posterior chain, so wouldn't deadlift + front squat be more balanced?
Definitely would! But one issue with the front squat that its sometimes more limited by your ability to hold the bar up instead of your legs. Not saying front squats + deadlifts are a bad thing , but that’s just something to consider.
The thing is that the front squats were introduced in late novice phase, where you wouldn't be able to do deadlifts every Wednesday, the day where front squats were supposed to be. You will have to learn a new technique (assuming you are "starting" strength) in a phase where is better to focus on the lifts that are already significantly heavy for you. Light back squats are very convenient because of this, and they don't require you to think how to compensate other things. Also, it would be almost the end of your linear progression, after that you are even encouraged to select the variety of exercise you need to follow your goals. So front squats can wait just a little, while you prioritise simplicity on the program. Of course this is debatable to some extent, which is why it even appeared on the program before. Experience showed them that it was not the most effective thing to do and they changed it. Whoever wants to do it, just do it. But it won't be recommended by him or his team.
The high bar squat is, for the non olympic technical superior and stronger lifter, a better match to the normal DL. The Front Squat is often too hard to execute to involve enough muscles and often the chest drops and you lean more and more forward where you can't hold it enough. Even though the high bar squat proportionally involves more posterior chain and less anterior chain, percentage wize, than the front squat, the total activation of the quads will be higher than in the Front Squat since it is easier to go closer to failure with the high bar squat (than the Front Squat). But maybe for the technical superior (and stronger/more developed in the right parts for the Front Squat) olympic lifter, the "Muscle match" with Front Squat/Deadlift will be better since they can exhaust the Quads much more from the Front Squat than a normal person. Then again, I think they focus more on the (front) Squat than the DL since it is often a more critical point.
Front squats are tremendous for breaking back squat plateaus, as well as increasing the deadlift, and strengthening the core. Amazing accessory just don’t forget to target hamstrings
There are great exercises that target the posterior chain. Deadlifts, good mornings, RDL's, etc.. This is their purpose. Squatting to target the posterior chain is like mowing your lawn with a weed-wacker.
@@davidwarren719 I've read Starting Strength and I agree with Yevgeniy. First, hamstrings are already "included" in every squat variation - even the front squat. However, basic biomechanics state that hamstrings will never be the primary movers in the squat. The hamstrings in the squat act as dynamic stabilizers for the knee joint. Do low bar squats use the hamstrings more than other variations? Yes, a little. But even in low bar squats the mechanical stress on the hamstrings is not sufficient to elicit meaningful strength gains. This is like saying that the bench press is good for building biceps. Yes, your biceps are activate during the bench because their role in the bench is analogous to the hamstrings in the squat - the biceps are dynamic stabilizers for the shoulder and elbow joints. A lot of people will say "But my hamstrings get really sore after I squat." It is true that the back of your legs will get sore after squatting, but the muscles that are sore are NOT the hamstrings. What you feel is soreness in the adductor magnus, which happens to cross the back of the leg.
@Madmartigan The Greatest Swordsman That Ever Lived I wrote an entire article on this citing several sources written by experts in physiology. I know a little something about this "hamstrings used in squats" issue. As for missing the point, my comment was in response to the statement that front squats don't include the hamstrings. This is false. In all squat variations the hamstrings act as dynamic stabilizers for the knees.
The low bar back squat is a highly valuable strength training exercise, but there is no evidence that any type of squat can meaningfully develop the hamstrings. Because the knee and hip joints flex and then extend simultaneously, the hamstrings do not change length during the squat and they function isometrically. As hamstring activation increases, greater hip extension torque is accompanied by greater knee flexion torque, which aids the gluteus maximus and adductor magnus while resisting the quads. Biomechanically, hamstring involvement during a squat is substantially less efficient for maximizing performance than glute, adductor magnus, and quad involvement, so the nervous system preferentially recruits these muscles over the hamstrings. I'd confidently wager that one set of RDLs or seated hamstring curls would produce significantly greater hamstring strengthening and hypertrophy than 5x5 low bar back squats. Keep low bar squatting but don't neglect hip hinge or knee flexion exercise if you're looking for stronger hamstrings.
I like doing front squats on days with RDL. Front squats grow your rhomboids and lower traps. I’ve found my OHP is correlated with front squats as well as close grip bench. To each their own, but I love having front squats in my routine.
@@deeg_with_robots plenty of it. Lowbar squat is best form of squat; nonsense. Exercise variations like leg press is stupid and offer nothing; nonsense. You can go to Barbell Medicine and see them contradict everything Rip says and they happen to be way stronger than he ever was and stronger than all SS coaches, and MDs on top of it.
@@ONE-pg7wd Hope can anybody front squat anywhere near the weight they can back squat (high bar or low bar)? For me it's nothing more than an accessory unless you're really unable to get any depth on your back squat (unlikely).
If I'm not in a gym, I use an old barbell to do fronts squats at home. The catch is, I have no squat rack so you always have to clean the weight before hitting reps. This means you keep the weight light and safe. It's by far the best accessory lift I've found to increase overall athleticism.
Adding in front squats to a program allows you to do more total volume *because* they don't heavily tax the hamstrings and the posterior chain. Someone who trains the trap bar deadlift, front squat, and back squat will have a bigger back squat than someone who only trains the back squat.
The biomechanics of zerchers are pretty similar to front squats, except they also involve biceps and forearms to hold the bar and are a lot more painful.
@@Mks25932 you live under a rock your whole life? Zerchers are great, powerlifters, strongmen, body builders and many hobby lifters do them, Kevin Oak, Alexander Bromley and Eric Bugenhagen are all monsters that attribute massive development from Zercher squats. If you just back squat you will develop overuse injuries, not to mention your development through sticking points will have to be overcome with a single squat variety which is stupid, variety is superior to simplicity...always.
Aside from the aforementioned reasons to Front Squat, I find that I can Front Squat without irritating my lower back injury. Now I front squat 3-4 times a week while still allowing my lower back to heal.
The vast majority of people who have only low bar squatted and deadlifted need something like a front or high bar squat eventually. The quads don't get anywhere near what they need in the program.
Front squats are easier on the lower back and put less pressure on the back of the neck ! Also great for the squads and less stress on the knees ! I cannot back squat due to shoulder issues and have the weight resting on spine ! The front squat has its place and is better for many !
coming back from a deadlift injury front squats and rdl's have been great..leg day is basically FS, RDL's, Leg press, Leg curls and extensions. I never see front squats leaving my routine
Nebie question: What is the difference between the "Starting Strength" book and the "Practical Programming" book? Which should I read first to get a head start?
Practical programming takes you through programing from novice to intermediate to advanced and so on. Go with starting strength first if you are just starting out
I've seen lots of strong back squatters who absolutely suck at front squats. The front squat just has different requirements for core and back strength. It's a great total body exercise with great carryover to a lot of activities.
@@michaels5381 No it's because it requires much more core/upper body strength, the bar is very far from your hips and the vertical torso position that causes makes for weaker leverage overall.
Front squats have more of a quad emphasis and a lot of carryover to other athletic endeavors, especially Olympic lifting and strongman. If you don't plan to do any of those other things or don't have the mobility to do them then don't bother, they're not necessary for the average trainee, but I find them quite useful and enjoyable. And because they barely involve the hamstrings you can do them on deadlift day without too much fatigue.
I understand your argument but if you are squatting to develop hamstrings, then you are already losing. Back squats are minor part in developing hamstrings, and can be raised in many ways. Also, back squats barely raise the front squat imo. I don't know why, but I got my back squat to nearly 400lbs and struggled with 135lbs on the front squat, which is late intermediate vs early novice levels
Why not just do a hamstring exercise to make up for front squatting, I think front squats has a lot of benefits and carry over to leave them out. It’s tremendous for upper back, quad and core development. Will help with deadlift lockout and back squats
I have to choose between FS and low bar now since I am trying to fix my bad left shoulder. It does not like to rest the bar correctly. In the meantime I do FS. I suck at them but I like the way they feel, they look cool and in the end of the day until I learn to put the bar directly under the SPAHHNE of the scapula, I rather FS then do no squats at all. I just wanna follow Rip's instructions correctly and learn to do the low bar the right way. And when I switch - FS will remain... I just like them.
Rip, I’ve found that if I only back squat then my quads tend to cramp on a run. If I only front squat, then my hamstrings cramp on a run. Usually this occurs on any run over 2-3 miles. Since running was a requirement in my previous job, I would mix up the squats. A workout would have front squats, B workout would have back squats. It seemed to keep me from cramping on a run.
Crossfit Athletes do these to help boost their performance on cleans and jerk and cleans. I do them and integrate back squats with them. Crossfit Open 23.2 had a maximum thruster movement.
I get annoyed when ppl try to seperate exercises whats bettwr...just do both depends on your goals u think chinese weightlifters dont do back squats....but for them front is more important
I don't really understand this: You say front squat is only really of use to Olympic lifters, yet you actually include Olympic lifts in the repertoire despite the fact that they can never be really loaded unless they're programmed at a high frequency Your programs heavily emphasize low bar back squats, which involve the hamstrings to a great degree, and of course you program deadlifts So why do a squat variation that doesn't involve hamstrings? Because the hamstrings are already heavily worked in low bar squats and deadlifts. If an athlete ends up with deficiencies in spinal erector/back strength, I don't really see the need to continue to hammer away on the hamstrings instead of doing a squat variation where the limiting factor in most people is going to be back strength
Rip, I completely agree with your thoughts on the front squat. Now, can you tell me why the majority of Division I Football Programs had the NFL have their players doing Power Cleans instead of Deadlifts.
Power cleans can be recovered from more easily. It's the same reason why Rip programs in both power cleans and deadlifts. The power clean allows him to program in more pulling volume. The issue with athletes is that they also have to train their sport. It's sub optimal for strength gains to exclude the deadlift, but sub optimal gains are still gains and strength isn't the only aspect of playing football.
It's easier to F up you knees front squatting rather than training the squat. The reason is simple. One can push the ass back, and use the knee as a hinge, better with the bar on the back compared to having it rest on the clavicles. My opinion? Train them both.
It's cute that Rip still believes any form of squat does much for the hamstrings at all despite all the evidence to the contrary that we have nowadays. I agree there's no need for anyone outside of olympic weightlifting to do them as they don't really add much for general strength or even hypertrophy and they're a more technical lift to learn, but it's really not about the hamstrings at all, because low bar back squats don't use them much either. That's what deadlifts are for.
There are tons of articles that explain this and go into the biomechanics as to why this is true. But Rip and his followers seem to ignore the science.
There are several other ways to hit hamstrings. Front squats are so much healthier than back squat. I’m 40 years old, been lifting for 26 years, everyone I know that did back squats from when I was a younger man have bad injuries because back squat ruined their mobility and lower back. Front squat forces you to use strict technique so massively prevents injury.
The reason why I would say front squat is superior to the squat is because it requires & builds better mobility than the squat, particularly when you do it with a full grip which most people can’t but need to be able to. It also works the quads just as much & the entire core including the back as well as TVA more all while using lighter weight. But most critically of all, there’s no risk of getting pinned on the front squat because if you miss a rep, you can just drop it in front of you whereas it’s more difficult on a squat & has a higher rate of injury to drop a squat off your back than dropping a front squat in front of you. I also tend to get very dizzy from squats but not front squats. Though squats, like power cleans or snatches, should only be done for very low volume & low reps, squats should only be done for a set of 5 whereas the power clean & snatch should only be done for at most 5 singles then use other exercises like leg press, hack squats, belt squats, etc to build up the legs with higher sets & reps. It’s the same reason why I exclusively do overhead press, it builds the entire shoulder girdle while also working the pectorals, it works the triceps better through a longer ROM, develops the core more all while using a lighter weight because if you can overhead press 400 then you can absolutely bench 400, not to mention there’s no risk of shoulder impingement or getting pinned under the weight unlike the benchpress because if you can’t press the weight overhead, just rerack it or put it down. Although overhead press can be done with very high sets & reps, 5 sets of 8-10 reps with 60-65% of your 1 rep max where you add 5 pounds a week to your 60-65% is perfect.
I kept hurting my back with the back squat. My lower-lower back, around the hips. I think it’s because I’m fairly crooked. One of my legs is about an inch shorter than the other, and this causes a pelvic tilt that I think is conducive to strain. The front squat gives me no problems. I can get to beautiful depth. Going to depth on the back squat on the other hand is very uncomfortable.
I have heard of shims being made for your shoes if your legs are not relatively equal in length. There have been threads on the SS board for this. I would look there.
Dude, I find when I do front squats, I have no lower back or hip pain at all! Back squats, used to be my favorite, and I used to really stack them, however my lower back is just not as strong as it used to be.
Because I can actually hit depth with a front squat that I can’t with a back squat (regardless of high or low bar). I try to include one true squat and one true hinge in my programming, as explained in an article found on Stronger by Science.
Front squats are a core exercise, core gives out first and the back starts rolling forward, pushing myself and the bar up with my quads is never the issue. And there's no core pump on earth like a front squat core pump. Doesn't even give me sore quads.
@@agontprevarator5214 one thing is always catching up with another, when my core strengthens then I might be struggling with my quads until they get stronger and then it's my core letting me down again
@@leedowner2249 That's the case with any compound movement. Why do powerlifters constantly work on weaknesses? To overcome plateaus. Because the same thing you just mentioned happens to them and everybody else. Front squats are disproportionately more whined about because its requirements are A LOT of people's BIG weaknesses thus you get all the "but my core and thoracic erectors tire before my quads"... which is simply something that has to be addressed.
Yep - that is my experience with squats when you get them right. You will also find that your walking/getting up/etc improves as all that hip/glute/hamstring muscle mass starts coming in to assist you in your day to day stuff.
@@johnh6928 not for me. Cause gyms closed where I live I've been doing FS for the last 9 months. Been amazing on my quads and they looked like shit when I was doing BS
Ok.. that’s good and all, but if you are lacking leg drive on deads, if you just want to train the front rack position, if you want to teach how to brace properly on the squat, the front squat is very useful. I don’t agree that it’s just for Olympic lifters and that’s it. if you back squat back squat back squat, your front squat.. could very well be shit. The front rack position in itself is a different animal and if you don’t throw it in program you are missing out.
i think front squats is great if u carry a lot of stuff in front of ur body like a sack of rice, luggage, box, ur baby, in the er when you carry a patient. front squats and zercher squats will train u for that.
This guy is wrong. First of all, what’s the problem with exercises that don’t include the hamstrings? Bench press also doesn’t include the hamstring and the glutes and the Quads, so we shouldn’t do it? Second, Both back squats and front squats are NOT meant for the posterior chain. They are both meant for the quads! The problem is that he believes that the right back squat is the powerlifting squat, and the powerlifting low bar squat is nothing but a way to lift more weight without breaking the powerlifting rules of the squat. Squats are for the quads to build power and explosiveness. Doing squats the way he teaches kills this exercise. Everything he says about the front squat is exactly the same for the back squat- torso as upright as possible, knees forward, pushing up with the quads without moving the hips backwards
If carry things from car to house u don't carry them on back of neck. Atm I can back squat 90kg but front squat 40 or so. If say can squat 90 then struggle carrying things then I look a bit silly. I just dont like that I'm not strong front squatting, I don't know if similar movement to carrying things.
What if, as in duality, the frontside benefits from the backside and the backside benefits from the frontside??? I think you said this in your own words.
man i love mark rippetoe but fk me i dont feel like low bar squat is a natural movement. it feels like low bar squat is derived from high bar squat just like the bench press is a variation of military press, overhead press. high bar squatting feels much more natural to perform.
Exactly. Starting Strength overemphasizes the need for the low bar squat for hamstring contribution when you’re already using the hamstrings on a deadlift and leg curls like you mentioned.
@@Kevin3310 Yep. The same arguement can be said that if your front squat goes up, so does your back squat. Rip' has great advice here and there but he definitely is set in his ways lol
To all the front squatters, question: do you lift a greater or at least similar weight as if you were doing back squats ? The answer is no. Than why do you do it ? Bigger weights, more gainz. To those who say front squats are easier on the knees ... I can hardly imagine that being true, for the knee angle is more acute doing the front squat, plus, the knees have to travel further forward, both makes them the front squats putting a higher load, and more chance to injury on the knees. Plus, I think many people who say back squats are hard on their backs, have never learnt to do them back squats properly, or are too skinny/of low weight and relative strenght.
"then why do you do it" Because the overall force on the quads is the same. Imagine performing a lateral raise with a flexed arm and a straight arm. With a flexed arm you can maybe lateral raise 45lb dumbbells but with a straight arm you might be lucky to raise 35lb dumbbells. The overall stimulus on the delt is the same even though you lift more weight on paper with one vs the other. The biomechanics for the front and back squat are not different, and this has been tested it's not just my opinion. For the quads specifically, the stimulus is the exact same despite the difference in weight. So why do people front squat? Because they can achieve the same results for their quads with less weight on their bodies leading to quicker recovery. If you want a stronger posterior chain do rdls, good mornings, hip thrusts etc. However, squats are knee focused exercises. Between back squats and front squats, I choose front squats
Front squats are alltogether a better lift and a more pure squat overall. Less load on the spine, great upper back stimulus, and so much less lower back and hip fatigue. Back squats are awesome, but too many people butcher the movement, get injured or worse
I already know he’s gonna say bc it doesn’t recruit the most muscle mass
bugez!!!!!!
But hack squats recruit more muscle mass
Okay so if i dont do front squats cause they dont recruit those most muscle mass, then i wont do back squats either since it doesnt recruit as much as deadlifts do
@@insertnamehere2746 Comparing front squat and back squat in this context makes sense as they are both squats. Comparing squats and deadlifts in this contexts makes no sense as they are very different lifts with a different focus and different goals.
@@totallyfrozen except for the fact the back squat and deadlift are POSTERIOR CHAIN exercises. The deadlift is simply better at developing the posterior chain than backsquat is.
Not only that, the Front squat is better at developing the anterior chain than backsquats are due to the higher emphasis on quadricep and core strength involved.
I feel like a lot of people that do variations like front squats are doing them because it's fun to have variety in your workouts. That's a good enough reason.
Heresy!
I do them because they have grown my quads and deadlift a ton. My hamstrings have always been far stronger than my quads, so something that doesnt hit them is what I need.
I think for most people the opposite is true, quads stronger than hams.
If u dont compete in powerlifting front squat is the best
@@anxietydisorders5917 Best for what?
My understanding is that increased conventional deadlift provides significant work to Hamstrings while front squats have added benefits to flexibility, upper back muscles and posture as well as being easier to perform safely.
That said, I get back squats are a must for powerlifters and generally maxing out squat weight, but beyond those contexts it doesn't seem nearly as optimal.
There is no planet where equally heavy (relative to the 1RM of either) front squats are safer than back squats, particularly low bar.
@@georgechristiansen6785 What do you mean by that? I know my comment is a few years old, but I've found personally that low bar back squats put my back at more risk than either high bar or front.
In the past couple years I've come to believe a lot more that beyond horrendously dangerous things, individuality plays a pretty large part in better exercise selection.
@@nathantripathy You back is no more "at risk" doing low bar back squats than your biceps are at risk doing curls. In both case you have to do something stupid to get hurt.
Both of those things make the muscles mentioned LESS at risk by strengthening them.
Outside of a pre-existing injury that somehow prevents you from doing any low back loading, it is a form or programming issue, not exercise selection that makes back squats a low back risk.
The back squat is objectively safer than a front squat because it requires less skill and coordination to keep the bar in a stable and safe position.
Don't agree at all. First, your average person will front squat quite a bit less than they back squat.
But beyond that, if form breaks down too much in a front squat then the bar just falls down... In a back squat it's easy to have bad form and complete the lift.
Also, as commented by the late Charles Poloquin, front squats are easier on your knees which is good for people like me with knee issues.
I'm NOT saying don't back squat btw. It's way more of a full leg workout and often shoulders and upper body are THE limiting factor when front squatting rather than the legs.
But with my knees, front squats are the only ones that don't give me trouble 😭
I don't even do back squats anymore.
I have long femurs, and my goal is bodybuilding...and front squats destroy back squats for building quads.
Front Squat Supremacy Gang
Also back squats are more easily fucked in technique which leads to lower back pain because too much ego lifting makes us put more weight than we can handle on our backs. This in turn destroys your lower back because the bar does not travel in a straight line up and down instead you tip forward or backwards
I do Pavel's Simple and Sinister kettlebell program which is 100 kettlebell swings, that handles my hamstring and glutes. I do the front squats to give my quads some love.
Front squats are also beneficial to combat athletes because it heavily emphasizes the core.
Stefan Wolf exactly bro hamstrings are easy to target with other exercises. Rip is just a little narrow minded but I understand where he is coming from get the most out of your routine but honestly variety makes exercise more fun plus like you said core stability is immensely important in all aspects of life even to combat lower back pain which is very common in our society thanks to a sedentary lifestyle.
Same here, I have a tiny torso and long legs, back squats didnt do much at all for my legs, fronts squats have made my quads bigger and also are easier to coordinate with heavy deadlifts
Hi Rip, I agree that hamstrings must be emphasized heavily, which is why my new program consists solely of hamstring curls, good mornings, and banded clam shells. The backs of my legs are so fucking huge it's ridiculous. Thank you for this inspiration!
Peace be to the banded clam shell.
What is a banded clam shell?
@@Aron-ve5fe Google is your friend. You lay on your side and externally rotate the hips with a band around the knees
Can't tell if serious or taking the piss, but you certainly can develop a big strong posterior chain with these exercises, so long as progressive overload/eccentric overload/metabolic overload is applied
How bout deadlifts
When it comes to my training, I think it makes a lot of sense to do front squats with conventional deadlifts for one training block, and then do back squats with sumo pulling. This way you always balance out how much you're working the back in relation to gleuts and hamstrings
Deadlift trains hamstrings, deadlift that you omit in your program by doing 1x5... Front squat and deadlift is a perfect combo.
To me it seems like the deadlift already blasts my hamstrings, so how could I give my best effort for both back squats AND deadlifts?
Low bar squat and deadlift use same muscle groups though. Choose on or the other or do both but as variation. If both are main lift you would train same muscle group twice.
Completely agree. To do deads and back squats would overtrain the Hams.
Bro I thought u were me cuz the same profile pic lmao
Also I have for a long time in my program paired DL and FS so may it can from here lol since it shows i did like it and the first reply whenever I saw this in the past
I get what he’s saying, and I don’t fundamentally disagree, but front squats work great as a companion to deadlifts. If you’re doing deadlifts and squats on the same day, front squats are often a better option because they’re easier in your back.
The only case where this would be necessary though would be when you are doing a high-ish volume of deadlifting, which almost nobody need to do.
The deadlift is the least technical lift and the most systemically taxing, so it makes sense to do less volume of it, but you need a certain amount of volume work for those muscles, so you get it via lighter squats on deadlift days.
Front squats are just awesome. Excluding them all together is silly.
Front squats are unnecessary.
@@SamsonFitness-w4j Adding front squats to my routine added lots of poundage to my deadlifts
@@SamsonFitness-w4jSo are machines but we still do them.
Front squats feel far better on my knees (which are pretty jacked up.)
So i deadlift, weighted chin/pull up, OHP, FS, bench as my main compounds.
DL, RDL and leg curls are enough hammy work.
I like the feeling in my core and lats when I do Front Squats. I'll always do them.
Exactly
So will I from now on. I dropped them after the lockdowns ended, or rather forgot to do them. Months in I was wondering why my DL and Oly squat were not going far. Added in heavy front squats and I am back on track. I am always stronger when I am front squatting.
Don't forget strongman, we benefit from front squats as well with carry over to any front loaded carry and stones...
Facts i lifting a stong is basically a front squat. I live stone training, if your intrested too might wamma give my insta @zeaswavy a look
they helps conans wheel a lot
It even helps out your push press
@@Mks25932 so you're saying just because a freak of nature doesn't front squat no one should because there isn't any carry over; and what works for one person works for all? I can get behind the average person sticking to the basics but if you've been in the game for a while and are branching out to try and work through sticking points and to overall become better at strongman than front squats should be rotated into training cycles...
And isn't the whole point of starting strength essentially to be strong as strongman is? He seems confused here.
lol because you can do them on deadlift days and they focus on the quads/ core. FS's are amazing. They're good for beginners as well as they teach them how to brace properly.
And while we're at it, omit overhead pressing - it uses less muscle than the bench in the pressing pattern, and you're not one of the 87 Olympic lifters that needs to catch a jerk.
(Or maybe there is more to it than that . . . )
I agree. I get much more out of pressing behind the neck when it comes to shoulder development ... beyond that, I get a lot more out of doing a bench variation 3x per week than going A/B style with OHP
You're bad at analogies.
Olympic weightlifters hardly train ohp. It has little carryover to the jerk but that doesnt mean its not a great exercise. I’d argue its better than the bench because you can’t internally rotate the shoulder until pressed overhead(which is optimal btw), you’re getting more from less weight, you’re building the triceps which is the prime mover in the bench, you get more upper back recruitment and you have to stabilize the trunk through the press. Better exercise in those regards. Rip and his followers are just dogmatic
I primarily do front squats. I've always appreciated the discipline involved in doing a heavy front squat clean and correct. You really can't "cheat" heavy front squats...
If I do only low bar squat for too long I HAVE to add front squats because of the over emphasis on posterior chain at the detriment of the anterior chain. It's the only way I stay pain free throughout the entire progression
@@BigBusiness02 Just elevated the heels
@@lucashenriques4242 they are. Didn't make a difference
@@BigBusiness02 That's impossible, the more you elevate your heels the more it becomes quad dominant.
@@lucashenriques4242 it is not impossible. Learn a little more before just saying things 🫶🏾
If only there were exercises that emphasized hamstrings... exercises like RDLs, good mornings, Nordic curls, etc.
I do front squats to help strengthen my upper back, and it’s a good core exercise for me, really helps with stabilization.
FS - looks manly and no need to do abs exercise. When you suck at it like me - only way to get better is get strong core by front squatting. That's it.
I will swallow the pride and squat with the pocket weights on the bar... It is what it is.
I do them to reduce lower back fatigue. I've got a short torso and long legs, so I'm VERY horizontal in the low-bar squat. This lets me get another squat session in without being too fried to hit my low-bar or deadlift workouts.
How did that work out for you after one year?
@@jocaingles8464 great. doing some more quad-focused work helps with the squat-morning I also struggled with.
That is because you do not eat enough, hence your waist is too thin, hence weak abdominals and spinal erectors, hence when you squat heavy they are unable to stabilize your spine. So what you should do is not changing to front squats, but having 8eggs for breakfast together with some toast and oatmeal.
@@HubertTheBeardless LOL. You've ODed on the koolaid. 'Just eat more' isn't always the answer.
There's another category of people who can benefit from Front Squats...
Those of us with a barbell set at home and no safety rack.
Try out zerchers
@@s-man5647 yuh
The front squat doesn't have much emphasis on the hamstrings, but the deadlift does, & the deadlift & the low bar squat are similar, emphasising muscles in the posterior chain, so wouldn't deadlift + front squat be more balanced?
Definitely would! But one issue with the front squat that its sometimes more limited by your ability to hold the bar up instead of your legs. Not saying front squats + deadlifts are a bad thing , but that’s just something to consider.
The thing is that the front squats were introduced in late novice phase, where you wouldn't be able to do deadlifts every Wednesday, the day where front squats were supposed to be.
You will have to learn a new technique (assuming you are "starting" strength) in a phase where is better to focus on the lifts that are already significantly heavy for you. Light back squats are very convenient because of this, and they don't require you to think how to compensate other things.
Also, it would be almost the end of your linear progression, after that you are even encouraged to select the variety of exercise you need to follow your goals. So front squats can wait just a little, while you prioritise simplicity on the program.
Of course this is debatable to some extent, which is why it even appeared on the program before. Experience showed them that it was not the most effective thing to do and they changed it. Whoever wants to do it, just do it. But it won't be recommended by him or his team.
@@Kevin3310 Improve your back strength and mobility then. Plenty of people with big strong quads from front squats...
The high bar squat is, for the non olympic technical superior and stronger lifter, a better match to the normal DL. The Front Squat is often too hard to execute to involve enough muscles and often the chest drops and you lean more and more forward where you can't hold it enough. Even though the high bar squat proportionally involves more posterior chain and less anterior chain, percentage wize, than the front squat, the total activation of the quads will be higher than in the Front Squat since it is easier to go closer to failure with the high bar squat (than the Front Squat).
But maybe for the technical superior (and stronger/more developed in the right parts for the Front Squat) olympic lifter, the "Muscle match" with Front Squat/Deadlift will be better since they can exhaust the Quads much more from the Front Squat than a normal person. Then again, I think they focus more on the (front) Squat than the DL since it is often a more critical point.
@@Magnus_Loov ok? What’s your point? That’s more or less what Rip was saying.
Front squats are tremendous for breaking back squat plateaus, as well as increasing the deadlift, and strengthening the core. Amazing accessory just don’t forget to target hamstrings
yea i love the front squat mixed with the deadlift i kinda kicked the back squat out
@@Mks25932 how many top powerlifters would have the mobility to front squat properly?
No more an accessory than backsquats are
When I go deep with back squats I get butt wink but when I do front squats I can go as deep as I want without any butt wink.
There are great exercises that target the posterior chain. Deadlifts, good mornings, RDL's, etc.. This is their purpose. Squatting to target the posterior chain is like mowing your lawn with a weed-wacker.
It’s not squatting to target the hamstrings, it’s squatting to INCLUDE the hamstrings. Read Starting Strength.
@@davidwarren719 I've read Starting Strength and I agree with Yevgeniy. First, hamstrings are already "included" in every squat variation - even the front squat. However, basic biomechanics state that hamstrings will never be the primary movers in the squat. The hamstrings in the squat act as dynamic stabilizers for the knee joint. Do low bar squats use the hamstrings more than other variations? Yes, a little. But even in low bar squats the mechanical stress on the hamstrings is not sufficient to elicit meaningful strength gains. This is like saying that the bench press is good for building biceps. Yes, your biceps are activate during the bench because their role in the bench is analogous to the hamstrings in the squat - the biceps are dynamic stabilizers for the shoulder and elbow joints.
A lot of people will say "But my hamstrings get really sore after I squat." It is true that the back of your legs will get sore after squatting, but the muscles that are sore are NOT the hamstrings. What you feel is soreness in the adductor magnus, which happens to cross the back of the leg.
@Madmartigan The Greatest Swordsman That Ever Lived I wrote an entire article on this citing several sources written by experts in physiology. I know a little something about this "hamstrings used in squats" issue.
As for missing the point, my comment was in response to the statement that front squats don't include the hamstrings. This is false. In all squat variations the hamstrings act as dynamic stabilizers for the knees.
The low bar back squat is a highly valuable strength training exercise, but there is no evidence that any type of squat can meaningfully develop the hamstrings. Because the knee and hip joints flex and then extend simultaneously, the hamstrings do not change length during the squat and they function isometrically. As hamstring activation increases, greater hip extension torque is accompanied by greater knee flexion torque, which aids the gluteus maximus and adductor magnus while resisting the quads. Biomechanically, hamstring involvement during a squat is substantially less efficient for maximizing performance than glute, adductor magnus, and quad involvement, so the nervous system preferentially recruits these muscles over the hamstrings. I'd confidently wager that one set of RDLs or seated hamstring curls would produce significantly greater hamstring strengthening and hypertrophy than 5x5 low bar back squats. Keep low bar squatting but don't neglect hip hinge or knee flexion exercise if you're looking for stronger hamstrings.
I like doing front squats on days with RDL. Front squats grow your rhomboids and lower traps. I’ve found my OHP is correlated with front squats as well as close grip bench. To each their own, but I love having front squats in my routine.
Do people actually listen to Rip for any reason other to see looney SS logic that was debunked years ago?
@@gersakkun This content doesn't generate "lulz" it generates contempt.
Where was it debunked?
Ouch.
@@deeg_with_robots plenty of it. Lowbar squat is best form of squat; nonsense. Exercise variations like leg press is stupid and offer nothing; nonsense. You can go to Barbell Medicine and see them contradict everything Rip says and they happen to be way stronger than he ever was and stronger than all SS coaches, and MDs on top of it.
If advocating for a squat variation is looney to you, you should open the news / curlean x
I get that back squat is superior to the front squat in a vacuum, but I love the front squat combined with the deadlift.
Nah man. Front squat is superior in my opinion. I am similar to you, i prefer using front squat and deficit deadlifts for my lower body.
I agree
I like to deadlift into a front squat and follow it up with an OHP.
@@ONE-pg7wd Hope can anybody front squat anywhere near the weight they can back squat (high bar or low bar)? For me it's nothing more than an accessory unless you're really unable to get any depth on your back squat (unlikely).
If I'm not in a gym, I use an old barbell to do fronts squats at home. The catch is, I have no squat rack so you always have to clean the weight before hitting reps. This means you keep the weight light and safe. It's by far the best accessory lift I've found to increase overall athleticism.
The front squat trains way more the quads, abs and upper back than a regular barbell back squat, and if you have lower back issues is a life saver
Great for grappling martial arts in my opinion. Opponent is in front clinched up. Strengthens all the good stuff.
Yup. In jiu jitsu the position of a front squat is far closer to the postion of a front squat than a back squat. Both have uses but I train both.
Adding in front squats to a program allows you to do more total volume *because* they don't heavily tax the hamstrings and the posterior chain. Someone who trains the trap bar deadlift, front squat, and back squat will have a bigger back squat than someone who only trains the back squat.
Thaddeus Howe This is simply not true
I wonder what Rippetoe thinks of the Zercher squat. I find if my Zercher goes up my backsquat goes up.
The biomechanics of zerchers are pretty similar to front squats, except they also involve biceps and forearms to hold the bar and are a lot more painful.
@@Mks25932 you live under a rock your whole life? Zerchers are great, powerlifters, strongmen, body builders and many hobby lifters do them, Kevin Oak, Alexander Bromley and Eric Bugenhagen are all monsters that attribute massive development from Zercher squats. If you just back squat you will develop overuse injuries, not to mention your development through sticking points will have to be overcome with a single squat variety which is stupid, variety is superior to simplicity...always.
By “nobody” he means us, the bottoms three percent of society that comment here.
I do high rep front squats after my heavy back squat day, however, my primary goal is aesthetics more than pure strength.
What about reduced axial loading of front squat? Plenty of other ways to train the hamstrings.
i started doing front squats 80% of the time and my deadlift shot up 50 pounds in 3 months
I took a break from back squats did a lot of front squats came back to back squats my lower back felt better and I was able to back squats more
Low/high bar back squat?
I grew up a runner but my coach always had us do front squats and cleans
Aside from the aforementioned reasons to Front Squat, I find that I can Front Squat without irritating my lower back injury.
Now I front squat 3-4 times a week while still allowing my lower back to heal.
The vast majority of people who have only low bar squatted and deadlifted need something like a front or high bar squat eventually. The quads don't get anywhere near what they need in the program.
Front squats are easier on the lower back and put less pressure on the back of the neck ! Also great for the squads and less stress on the knees ! I cannot back squat due to shoulder issues and have the weight resting on spine ! The front squat has its place and is better for many !
Hmm but the bar is on the traps right
@@lalithrockz front squat, no
For the squads 🤙
coming back from a deadlift injury front squats and rdl's have been great..leg day is basically FS, RDL's, Leg press, Leg curls and extensions. I never see front squats leaving my routine
Doing front squats only from now on thanks rip
Dan Green does heavy front squats, so i think they are useful, especially for core strength.
Nebie question: What is the difference between the "Starting Strength" book and the "Practical Programming" book? Which should I read first to get a head start?
Practical programming takes you through programing from novice to intermediate to advanced and so on. Go with starting strength first if you are just starting out
I've seen lots of strong back squatters who absolutely suck at front squats. The front squat just has different requirements for core and back strength. It's a great total body exercise with great carryover to a lot of activities.
But that's exactly the point. You lift more weight with backsquat, because there's more muscle mass involved than in front squat.
@@michaels5381 No it's because it requires much more core/upper body strength, the bar is very far from your hips and the vertical torso position that causes makes for weaker leverage overall.
I do front squats, because I feel that they help me maintain the proper posture when I do back squats. They're a great upper core exercise.
I need the front squat as a light day, and it gave me core strenght, and back strenght.
and it is not hard on recovery
Front squats have more of a quad emphasis and a lot of carryover to other athletic endeavors, especially Olympic lifting and strongman. If you don't plan to do any of those other things or don't have the mobility to do them then don't bother, they're not necessary for the average trainee, but I find them quite useful and enjoyable. And because they barely involve the hamstrings you can do them on deadlift day without too much fatigue.
I understand your argument but if you are squatting to develop hamstrings, then you are already losing. Back squats are minor part in developing hamstrings, and can be raised in many ways.
Also, back squats barely raise the front squat imo. I don't know why, but I got my back squat to nearly 400lbs and struggled with 135lbs on the front squat, which is late intermediate vs early novice levels
front squatting well requires a strong and comfortable front rack otherwise you lose a ton of stability
right mark but front squats provide other benefits such as better posture and stability and core utilization to keep that bar upright
Why not just do a hamstring exercise to make up for front squatting, I think front squats has a lot of benefits and carry over to leave them out. It’s tremendous for upper back, quad and core development. Will help with deadlift lockout and back squats
I have to choose between FS and low bar now since I am trying to fix my bad left shoulder. It does not like to rest the bar correctly. In the meantime I do FS. I suck at them but I like the way they feel, they look cool and in the end of the day until I learn to put the bar directly under the SPAHHNE of the scapula, I rather FS then do no squats at all. I just wanna follow Rip's instructions correctly and learn to do the low bar the right way. And when I switch - FS will remain... I just like them.
But the squat doesn't do much for the hamis anyway...we know this
Rip doesn't. They thought it did back in the 80s and that's when he stopped learning new things.
@@BigUriel then how come I feel my hams have worked when doing them
@@youragronk6208 Your Body must think it's still the 80s
@@alexcr4345 lol
@@youragronk6208 that would be your abductors and adductors you're working it's very easy to confuse the feelings of the two
Rip, I’ve found that if I only back squat then my quads tend to cramp on a run. If I only front squat, then my hamstrings cramp on a run. Usually this occurs on any run over 2-3 miles. Since running was a requirement in my previous job, I would mix up the squats. A workout would have front squats, B workout would have back squats. It seemed to keep me from cramping on a run.
Back squat should use mainly hips not quads, perhaps your weight is shifted too much forward.
Running sucks
Try doing side lunges
if only there was a barbell exercise to strengthen the hamstrings
If only
Deadlifts? Try doing them 3 times a week at the end of your linear progression.
There's a reason why the program goes the way it goes.
@@Russocass I think you missed a bit of sarcasm.
Or you are further contributing, i dunno lol
@@eugenepoon 😂😂 it was sarcasm. Deadlifting heavy three times a week at that time of the progression is impossible for most, if not for all.
Romanian deadlifts
Crossfit Athletes do these to help boost their performance on cleans and jerk and cleans. I do them and integrate back squats with them. Crossfit Open 23.2 had a maximum thruster movement.
Fair enough, but wouldn't it be good to work the core like zercher squat?
A core exercise that works more than just core
I get annoyed when ppl try to seperate exercises whats bettwr...just do both depends on your goals u think chinese weightlifters dont do back squats....but for them front is more important
Perhaps people would rather build their quads rather than doing half squats/good mornings like a powerlifter and building their arse. Just a thought.
Front squats carryover to advance calisthenics. Since it strengthens your upper back and core, front levers became easier.
So does high bar, though I'd argue specificity is key in calisthenics
@@smokertaisan indeed...
Hello rip im a big fan of the podcast and your sense of humor
I'm not a good Olympic lifter but I am indeed one.
I don't really understand this:
You say front squat is only really of use to Olympic lifters, yet you actually include Olympic lifts in the repertoire despite the fact that they can never be really loaded unless they're programmed at a high frequency
Your programs heavily emphasize low bar back squats, which involve the hamstrings to a great degree, and of course you program deadlifts
So why do a squat variation that doesn't involve hamstrings? Because the hamstrings are already heavily worked in low bar squats and deadlifts. If an athlete ends up with deficiencies in spinal erector/back strength, I don't really see the need to continue to hammer away on the hamstrings instead of doing a squat variation where the limiting factor in most people is going to be back strength
They leave out the hamstrings but so do military pressed and those are included......
Rip, I completely agree with your thoughts on the front squat. Now, can you tell me why the majority of Division I Football Programs had the NFL have their players doing Power Cleans instead of Deadlifts.
Power cleans can be recovered from more easily. It's the same reason why Rip programs in both power cleans and deadlifts. The power clean allows him to program in more pulling volume. The issue with athletes is that they also have to train their sport. It's sub optimal for strength gains to exclude the deadlift, but sub optimal gains are still gains and strength isn't the only aspect of playing football.
It's easier to F up you knees front squatting rather than training the squat. The reason is simple. One can push the ass back, and use the knee as a hinge, better with the bar on the back compared to having it rest on the clavicles. My opinion? Train them both.
It's cute that Rip still believes any form of squat does much for the hamstrings at all despite all the evidence to the contrary that we have nowadays.
I agree there's no need for anyone outside of olympic weightlifting to do them as they don't really add much for general strength or even hypertrophy and they're a more technical lift to learn, but it's really not about the hamstrings at all, because low bar back squats don't use them much either. That's what deadlifts are for.
There are tons of articles that explain this and go into the biomechanics as to why this is true. But Rip and his followers seem to ignore the science.
Front squats are good for improving power cleans.
There are several other ways to hit hamstrings. Front squats are so much healthier than back squat. I’m 40 years old, been lifting for 26 years, everyone I know that did back squats from when I was a younger man have bad injuries because back squat ruined their mobility and lower back.
Front squat forces you to use strict technique so massively prevents injury.
What is rips take on atgmobility
The reason why I would say front squat is superior to the squat is because it requires & builds better mobility than the squat, particularly when you do it with a full grip which most people can’t but need to be able to. It also works the quads just as much & the entire core including the back as well as TVA more all while using lighter weight. But most critically of all, there’s no risk of getting pinned on the front squat because if you miss a rep, you can just drop it in front of you whereas it’s more difficult on a squat & has a higher rate of injury to drop a squat off your back than dropping a front squat in front of you. I also tend to get very dizzy from squats but not front squats. Though squats, like power cleans or snatches, should only be done for very low volume & low reps, squats should only be done for a set of 5 whereas the power clean & snatch should only be done for at most 5 singles then use other exercises like leg press, hack squats, belt squats, etc to build up the legs with higher sets & reps. It’s the same reason why I exclusively do overhead press, it builds the entire shoulder girdle while also working the pectorals, it works the triceps better through a longer ROM, develops the core more all while using a lighter weight because if you can overhead press 400 then you can absolutely bench 400, not to mention there’s no risk of shoulder impingement or getting pinned under the weight unlike the benchpress because if you can’t press the weight overhead, just rerack it or put it down. Although overhead press can be done with very high sets & reps, 5 sets of 8-10 reps with 60-65% of your 1 rep max where you add 5 pounds a week to your 60-65% is perfect.
I kept hurting my back with the back squat. My lower-lower back, around the hips. I think it’s because I’m fairly crooked. One of my legs is about an inch shorter than the other, and this causes a pelvic tilt that I think is conducive to strain.
The front squat gives me no problems. I can get to beautiful depth. Going to depth on the back squat on the other hand is very uncomfortable.
I have heard of shims being made for your shoes if your legs are not relatively equal in length. There have been threads on the SS board for this. I would look there.
C Lewis hell yes, I shall. Thanks :)
Dude, I find when I do front squats, I have no lower back or hip pain at all! Back squats, used to be my favorite, and I used to really stack them, however my lower back is just not as strong as it used to be.
Front squats are better for athletic performance cause u have to stabilize more
Because I can actually hit depth with a front squat that I can’t with a back squat (regardless of high or low bar). I try to include one true squat and one true hinge in my programming, as explained in an article found on Stronger by Science.
Front squats are great and worth doing. And I'll fucking die on that hill 🤣
Just do some RDL's. Front squats are already easier on the lower back, so FS+RDL is good from a fatigue perspective as well.
I’ve been pairing them with good mornings, it’s awesome.
Front squats are a core exercise, core gives out first and the back starts rolling forward, pushing myself and the bar up with my quads is never the issue.
And there's no core pump on earth like a front squat core pump. Doesn't even give me sore quads.
The core is heavily involved in the front squat due to the upright torso angle but it's not a core exercise per say.
@@EliteProAli not a core isolating exercise but I've never done anything that hits my abs harder than a front squat, it's the main reason I do them
@@leedowner2249 Get a stronger core, you should most definitely be feeling the FS in the quads.
@@agontprevarator5214 one thing is always catching up with another, when my core strengthens then I might be struggling with my quads until they get stronger and then it's my core letting me down again
@@leedowner2249 That's the case with any compound movement. Why do powerlifters constantly work on weaknesses? To overcome plateaus. Because the same thing you just mentioned happens to them and everybody else. Front squats are disproportionately more whined about because its requirements are A LOT of people's BIG weaknesses thus you get all the "but my core and thoracic erectors tire before my quads"... which is simply something that has to be addressed.
So will your quads grow with only back squats?
absolutely
Yep - that is my experience with squats when you get them right. You will also find that your walking/getting up/etc improves as all that hip/glute/hamstring muscle mass starts coming in to assist you in your day to day stuff.
They will. But if you're looking for hypertrophy i would definitely supplement with legpress, hack squat, extensions AND maybe front squat.
@@johnh6928 not for me. Cause gyms closed where I live I've been doing FS for the last 9 months. Been amazing on my quads and they looked like shit when I was doing BS
@@ragnarbluechip8795 that doesn't contradict my point :0
What about the anterior chain?
the hwhaht chain now?
Personally Rip, your sense of humor is one of my favorite things about the podcast. Very similar to mine, except your less brutal lol.
You're*
Ur*
Noah Nichols Yore*
Yo*
Ok.. that’s good and all, but if you are lacking leg drive on deads, if you just want to train the front rack position, if you want to teach how to brace properly on the squat, the front squat is very useful. I don’t agree that it’s just for Olympic lifters and that’s it. if you back squat back squat back squat, your front squat.. could very well be shit. The front rack position in itself is a different animal and if you don’t throw it in program you are missing out.
i think front squats is great if u carry a lot of stuff in front of ur body like a sack of rice, luggage, box, ur baby, in the er when you carry a patient. front squats and zercher squats will train u for that.
But doesn't stating strength program the power clean???
This guy is wrong. First of all, what’s the problem with exercises that don’t include the hamstrings? Bench press also doesn’t include the hamstring and the glutes and the Quads, so we shouldn’t do it?
Second, Both back squats and front squats are NOT meant for the posterior chain. They are both meant for the quads! The problem is that he believes that the right back squat is the powerlifting squat, and the powerlifting low bar squat is nothing but a way to lift more weight without breaking the powerlifting rules of the squat. Squats are for the quads to build power and explosiveness. Doing squats the way he teaches kills this exercise. Everything he says about the front squat is exactly the same for the back squat- torso as upright as possible, knees forward, pushing up with the quads without moving the hips backwards
Why perform a movement which does a much better job activating the spinal erectors?
Why not just deadlift 2x a week?
because the upper back and abs are the other part of the equation....?
If carry things from car to house u don't carry them on back of neck. Atm I can back squat 90kg but front squat 40 or so. If say can squat 90 then struggle carrying things then I look a bit silly. I just dont like that I'm not strong front squatting, I don't know if similar movement to carrying things.
Perhaps you havent heard The Zercher Squat! The real front loaded squat for everyday use..
What if, as in duality, the frontside benefits from the backside and the backside benefits from the frontside??? I think you said this in your own words.
Front squat helps my scoliosis and really cranks my upper abs
I get high value from cleans and snatches. FS helps cleans and I get value from it.
man i love mark rippetoe but fk me i dont feel like low bar squat is a natural movement. it feels like low bar squat is derived from high bar squat just like the bench press is a variation of military press, overhead press. high bar squatting feels much more natural to perform.
I like Zercher squat, like squatting while planking.
Front Squat then RDL. But I totally understand Rip's Point.
I use the front squat as an accessory because my squat is hip and hamstring dominate. Cookie cutter advice
I don't see the problem if you already do conventional deadlifts and a couple of sets of leg curls
Exactly. Starting Strength overemphasizes the need for the low bar squat for hamstring contribution when you’re already using the hamstrings on a deadlift and leg curls like you mentioned.
@@Kevin3310 Yep. The same arguement can be said that if your front squat goes up, so does your back squat. Rip' has great advice here and there but he definitely is set in his ways lol
Romanian deadlifts too, or alternate between low bar and front squats.
i like giving them to beginners because i think they teach you how to brace better than the squat.
depends on how you're built as well
To all the front squatters, question: do you lift a greater or at least similar weight as if you were doing back squats ? The answer is no. Than why do you do it ? Bigger weights, more gainz. To those who say front squats are easier on the knees ... I can hardly imagine that being true, for the knee angle is more acute doing the front squat, plus, the knees have to travel further forward, both makes them the front squats putting a higher load, and more chance to injury on the knees. Plus, I think many people who say back squats are hard on their backs, have never learnt to do them back squats properly, or are too skinny/of low weight and relative strenght.
"then why do you do it"
Because the overall force on the quads is the same. Imagine performing a lateral raise with a flexed arm and a straight arm. With a flexed arm you can maybe lateral raise 45lb dumbbells but with a straight arm you might be lucky to raise 35lb dumbbells. The overall stimulus on the delt is the same even though you lift more weight on paper with one vs the other. The biomechanics for the front and back squat are not different, and this has been tested it's not just my opinion. For the quads specifically, the stimulus is the exact same despite the difference in weight.
So why do people front squat? Because they can achieve the same results for their quads with less weight on their bodies leading to quicker recovery. If you want a stronger posterior chain do rdls, good mornings, hip thrusts etc. However, squats are knee focused exercises. Between back squats and front squats, I choose front squats
Front squats are alltogether a better lift and a more pure squat overall. Less load on the spine, great upper back stimulus, and so much less lower back and hip fatigue.
Back squats are awesome, but too many people butcher the movement, get injured or worse
Heavy front squats aren't really a leg exercise.
wrongooo
Oh the sheer level of stupid in this comment