Should You Ever High Bar Squat?
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- Опубликовано: 13 апр 2024
- Starting Strength Coach Grant Broggi explains what the high bar squat is, how it differs from the low bar squat, and why anyone would ever want to consider using this over the low bar.
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Determining which squat is best in a vacuum is kind of weird. Yeah, low bar has more hips and posterior-chain, but you're already deadlifting, aren't you? Barbell programs need quad work. Most people (especially people not competing in powerlifting) should be high-bar squatting instead of doing a squat variation that overlaps more with the deadlift for no reason.
In starting strength programming you're deadlifting heavy but not for lots of volume - 1 top set of 5 so the low bar squat programming actually doesn't overload the posterior. Once you get to 315 and up sure, variation will probably be beneficial but you're probably not "starting" strength anymore.
Low bar primary is quads. How are your quads not getting stronger squatting 315??
@@claudej.montgomery9421 Who said my quads aren't strong? I squat high bar.
@@claudej.montgomery9421 Low bar is not primary quads. Quads barely get any work in a low bar position.
It's all I can do for now along with SSB squats. My 70 year old shoulders won't cooperate.
I‘m 42 and use a cambered bar because my shoulders hate anything else (and it’s fine)
As a High bar squater and doing some 🏋️ as well I got to say this.. As long as you get of the couch and go to the gym it shouldn't matter what squat type are you using, as long as you don't ego lift and have a good form. The rest depends on many factors that you will decide for YOURSELF. 🥂
I get pretty good carryover from high bar to low bar. Elbow tendonitis made me switch to high bar for three months. A week after returning to low bar, I hit a lifetime PR of 500.
I'm dealing with elbow tendonitis as well, any advice?
@@l.em.t3819lay off the low bar squats for a while. I had a similar experience when I was powerlifting, low bar killed my shoulders and elbows, but I could squat heavier weights that way. I trained high bar only up until about 6-7 weeks out from meets and consistently hit pr’s. Worked well for the last 3 meet preps I did, still was in a lot of pain bringing the low bar back in but it was manageable enough for that time period. Now that I don’t compete I only train high bar and it’s just much more sustainable
Ignore my previous comment i deleted it cus i missead your comment.
I started out in the gym loosely following Starting Strength, and therefore low bar squatting. I've recently started training for the sport of weightlifting, but I was moving in the high bar direction on my own. I consider the squat variants (i.e., low bar, high bar, front squat, and overhead squat) to be tools which each serve a purpose; each one has a place in the intermediate or advanced lifter's toolbox.
I use HB squats for my volume squatting. My LB are all about the hips, max weight 5s turn slowly into goodmornings from rep 3 with hips shooting up (not back) at the bottom and back angle becoming even more horizontal. As an result I build big glutes and shitty quads. HB helps to target them. I stop my sets as soon as I start to feel glutes taking over the movement.
one big point id throw in is, if you are very posterior dominant lifter and pull conventional, you can get wicked strong quads with high bar. Depends WHAT you want to get strong. Low bar and conventional and good mornings or whatever else make it hard to get super strong quads without a lot of accessories if you have poor leverages and highball is a great fix
This is a great video.People need to watch.
Anyone who wants quad development should high bar squat over low bar.
I high bar to destroy my quads and then do low bar to focus on posterior chain
@@Niel2760 that's a solid approach. I like to use wedges to elevate my heels when I high bar squat. The stretch in the quads is great. You dont have to use a lot of weight either.
@@user-dn4lg1dv5v right on, i used my wedge this morning for my high bar. I also only go up about three quarters to keep my quads under tension the whole time. Standing up is resting. And you’re right, don’t need a ton of weight and since I’m in my mid forties I’m not trying to impress anymore.
@@user-dn4lg1dv5vI think the not a lot of weight part was critical for me- focusing on high bar and heel elevation has finally gotten some size and strength in my quads, but man did I have to lower the weight especially at first
If you really want quad development why not front Squat?
I have been experiencing discomfort in my right shoulder for several weeks now. Despite my best efforts to perform the low bar squat last week, I simply couldn't manage it. Therefore, I resorted to the high bar instead. While doing the high bar, I couldn't help but think that Grant would give me the business if he saw me high barring. 😂 So thanks for posting this.
Plugging in some high-bar work throughout the week, really helped manage fatigue, so I could break through on my deadlift. Still making gains in my LBS, but now they’re not getting in the way of making progress with my deadlift.
Usually on program I will do my major work low bar and switch to volume and back offs high bar.
As a 35+ yr lifter, I have always performed high bar squats. I found them to be more natural and they have given me excellent thigh (VMO & Vastus Lateralis) development. I place the bar right below the vertebra prominens so the bar is primarily resting on my shoulders and traps instead of my spine.
Clarence Kennedy entered the chat…
Is high bar a good assistance movement for lowbar? Not for beginners ofc. But kinda like you said, for a light day workout, accessory or otherwise?
The few strength coaches I ever personally knew were advocates of the high bar squat for athletes and everyday functionality.
I do sets of one snatch with 3 overhead squats. I do sets of one clean with 3 front squats. It took more effort but cost less pain to learn these variations. I want to preserve these abilities, so I practice them. I also get more out of them by doing them barefoot atg, sometimes with a pause. I just enjoy these a lot more than back squats, and that's reason enough to keep doing them. It's also fun to do them at the beach or on a nice lawn.
The best thing is to learn and master both variations. On quad dominant days do high and on hammy days do low. If you dont split the leg into quad and ham then do whichever you like most but its good to master both variations.
I like to do an upper/posterior split and alternate high bar and low bar squats.
I ran starting strength til I hit 225 OHP, 315 Bench, 405 squat and deadlift at 5’5 48 yrs old.
Example split I run now…
Mon
Low Bar Squat 405 3x5
RDL 2x10 225
Barbell Row
Leg curls
Incline dumbbell curls
Tue
Bench Press 315 3x5
Dumbbell fly
Laterals
Upright Rows
Pushdowns
Thu
High Bar Squat 315 3x5
Deadlift 405 1x5
Leg ext
Pull ups
Cable curls
Fri
OHP 3x5 225
Incl DB press
Cable Fly
Cable laterals
Overhead tricep cable ext
hey, how much sets do you do for all of these exercises? I've been looking for a new 4 day split recently and this seems nice
Good vid. High bar squatting will reduce your overall load therefore less fatigue/stress at the same time reducing stress on the shoulders and elbows. Increasing your high bar squat in turn will increase your low bar squat so an overall win if you ask me.
I still can't get my arms back far enough for a straight bar, so I just use the elitlifts SS bar. I just try to hold the handles up to get as close to a low bar. Dr. Sully of GreySteel said that was a low bar squat.
I high bar squat because its intuitive and I never knew what low bar was until I found it on youtube. I never worried about falling over because I always practice safe sets. Never got elbow tendonitis from squatting, its hard to imagine.
Grant, something to consider about recommending high bar squats as a light variation for primary low bar squatters. I did this for a while, but found that I didn't understand how to *not* low bar squat, at least initially. I still tried to use my hips out of the hole which resulted in pretty bad lower back pumps/soreness. For someone who is trying to mix in a lighter variant, it may be better to try pausing the high bar movement to be sure you lead out of the hole with a vertical back or just front squat which makes it really difficult to use your hips and not dump the bar.
high or low the hips are always going to lead out of the hole
We need a how to video too
When I “sit back”, I feel it in quads only.
Also, look into how to dump the bar.
don't ego lift
@@weirdphax5406 its not about ego. If you're supposed to lift close to failure, or to failure, one day you will fail a squat. And you should know what to do before hand. Not learn while youre in the process of failing
@@jackmehoff2363 You DON'T have to go to failure, you can still make gains by leaving a rep or 2 in the tank. ive been lifting 20+ years and NEVER had to dump weight...im. wise enough to kno my limits PLUS i don't wanna dump the weight and hurt some bodyv and look like an idiot
@@jackmehoff2363 again i never failed a squat ... the most i lift is something for 7 reps no lower...
@@weirdphax5406 i dont know how to talk to you. If youve never failed a rep, then you actually dont know your limits. You are either lying to me, or youre lying to yourself about your limits. If youve been lifting 20 years and never failed a rep then you have never pushed yourself.
When I first started out I tried low-bar squats in the past, but my elbows just hates it. So I just do high-bar squats and got used to it over the years.
I remember when Paul Ellison was arguing there's no value in the high bar squat. He trained 3 athletes to go to the NFL. He supported the front squat. I agree that high bar squat is better than not squatting. I have never used the mars bar before. Paul Ellison loved the clean and snatch.
Who else should high bar........ Anyone who wants big quads
Should you do the cooler, more athletic squat variation? Yes. You get a pass to squat low bar if you're obese and balding.
Lol
It’s technically less athletic
@@yoeyyoey8937 it would probably be safe to say that the variation that translates into other athletic sport/movements is more athletic, i cant imagine LB is better than HB in this case.
@@michaelt126 why not? Lowbar uses more muscle mass and it replicates a more natural position for a lot of sports.
@@yoeyyoey8937 It does not. Look at someone doing a vertical jump. They do it upright. This is just not debatable.
High bar hurts my old and beat up knees.
Low bar puts the weight more into my hips and butt and doesn’t engage my knees like the high bar.
It sounds like you need to warm up better. Maybe even do a 3 to 4 warm up sets starting with the bar with a slow ecentric going ass to grass. Lots of people think the form is the problem but its usually the ego that makes you lift too much.
I was surprised to not see long femurs on this list. I have long femurs (relative to torso), and the physics of this means that I have to lean pretty far forward even with high bar position. Low bar just becomes a good morning and does not feel good at all. My deadlift is like 2x my squat. Lol.
Interesting, I am a fellow long femur lifter and both back squats feel unnatural. Lifting shoes with an elevated heel is a must as well as driving the knees out in both versions. That said, low bar feels just a bit more natural than high bar. I can't reach atg in high bar without slight rounding
That's bizarre! - I've never heard of a max deadlift being 2x a max squat.
I have short femurs, and I seem to prefer low bar - I also have an odd squat / Deadlift split - My max deadlift is no higher than my max squat, unless I use a trap bar for the deadlift. Low bar squatting doesn't bother any part of me except my wrists, which is somewhat alleviated by using tight wrist wraps.
I also have long femurs and almost 2x deadlift than squat, but it's now improving for me since I got weightlifting shoes and started working more on ankle/hip mobility
Glad to know I’m not the only one…
I switched to high bar, probably permanently and will use it as my competition squat. I lack shoulder mobility, but it's getting better overtime (started lifting at the age of 31 didn't help), but I don't want to ruin my elbows for the sake of having stronger squat. Also, my body proportions are a bit off, I have long torso and short femurs, meaning my squat is by defalut, very vertical. When I do lowbar, my torso is still very upright, meaning I have very little wiggle room to angle my torso when squatting - I will end up either not being able to hold the bar on my back since it will just roll down and break my arms or I will tip over and hope the spotters will catch me before I got crushed.
No balance issues with high bar, no elbow pain, my mobility routine can go alongside heavy squatting, I can probably utilize my knee wraps more with more knee bend for high bar. It stays.
I've noticed way more leg hypertrophy doing the high bar variation. A lot of people in my gym can low bar squat a lot of weight, but don't have very strong legs. They are just good at low bar squatting. I would rather high bar squat 225 5x5 than low bar squat 315 for the same sets/reps. There are some bizarre blanket statements in this video. I would recommend high bar for general leg gains, then supplementing glutes/hams with RDL, SLDL, leg curl, etc.
What about people who want to build their quads more?
Yes.
Yes high bar wins for bodybuilding purposes
Every time I low bar squat for more than a few weeks I start to develop shoulder pain. Just not worth it anymore. High bar or SSB don’t seem to cause any issues
Clarenco0 has left the discussion
I squat about an inch or so lower than high bar. Prefer it to low bar. Much healthier on my shoulders for martial arts
I competed in powerlifting for years and squatted realtively high bar for most of it
Doesn't High bar hit the quads more than the low bar?
High bar and conventional pair well as long ROM potentially lighter variations. Low bar and sumo pair well as shorter ROM potentially heavier variations. High bar/Conventional put your squat and pull further at opposing sides of the squat-hinge continuum, and Low Bar/Sumo bring them both closer to the center of the continuum. It doesn't make any sense to choose posterior chain dominant variations of both moves; that's just choosing to have weak quads. Overall it doesn't matter that much, just lift how you want to lift, but if you do any real analysis without weird dogmatic Starting Strength views that's the conclusion you'll come to
Reason 4: You do other exercises that are hip dominant.
I start out high bar, until the weight is heavy enough to help me get into the low bar position. I can't get into low bar position with less than 225lbs.
There isn't a meaningful difference between high bar and low bar. Biomechanics dictate more than bar placement or anything else. If you do the bizarre "Starting Strength" idea of a back squat it might be relevant, but otherwise it doesn't matter
The human body can squat more weight with the low bar position. The book describes the difference in biomechanics with exhausting detail. But more practically speaking, anyone can try both high and low bar and see the difference for themselves.
High bar squat if you want to be strong and athletic. Low bar if you want to lift more weight
I switched to High Bar and my deadlift increased... the fuck?
There’s no rule saying you can’t do both.
Cyclists (don’t hate) find quad dominant high bar squats useful
thats the only squat you should do lol
Low bar squats are a great way to continue looking like an unathetic meatball
Low bar squats is what a deadlift bar is to deadlifts....cheating for ego purposes
That depends on the anatomy of the lifter, if cheat try to move 180 kilos for reps in low bar if is to easy