Very fun video, Jon! I may have mentioned this to you before, but the Les Paul and I go back to the early 80s. And I’ve been in the woodworking industry from that time forward. Anyway, to my ears, I believe that I hear a tiny bit of “extra” presence on the Murphy Lab. I hear a little more “girth” on your VOS. Given my personal preference, the VOS tone is a small bit more to my liking. This is as subjective as things get. Having finished wood for a long time, I can provide a little extra information on how the finish works. Within the category of “nitro” lacquers, it’s possible to create different “recipes”. Plasticiser, helps a tiny bit with durability, but a big part of what contributes to “durability” is the amount of “solids” in the recipe. Plasticiser is one of the “solids” in the brew, but not the only one (while the chemical composition is interesting, it’s probably too boring for most, so I’ll leave that part out). Yes, the finish being applied (sprayed) is fluid, but that “fluid” always includes a certain amount of solids. Basically, the higher the solid content, the thicker and tougher the finish. This aspect is also affected by how many layers of sealer and top coat are applied to the guitar. The more layers of top coat, the tougher the finish and you can also get more depth and translucence in the finish. However, the arguable downside is that you suffocate the wood more with each layer. This is also an arguable benefit to using a thinner finish as the wood absolutely “breathes” a lot more. Unfortunately, thin finishes also increase the wood’s reactivity to environmental changes (climate/season/temperature/humidity). It’s actually a fascinating topic. For whatever this is worth knowing, thin finishes on touring guitars are one of the most dreaded battles touring guitarists have to deal with.
Thanks as always! Amazing insights and thanks for sharing! This makes sense to me and is fascinating to understand more about how this all works. It helps me understand why all my finishes on my boutique guitars all feel/look different despite all of them being “nitro”. It’s probably also a fun / frustrating rabbit hole for luthiers to experiment and find their ideal tradeoff among look, sound, durability, and probably effort/cost as well. Thanks again!
@@RatherBeRiffing You are very welcome. There are a host of other factors involved as well. How was the wood sanded? What kind sandpaper was used and what grit sequence of sand paper was used? The normal approach is to start with relatively coarser grits and move to finer grits with each sanding step (I might start with 80 grit, move to 100 and then 120 and then 150 or 180; finish sand would be 220). Some of this depends upon how much of the sanding is done with machine and how much by hand; flat surfaces more machine and shaped surfaces more hand. It can also depend on the wood specie used. Alder is a closed-grain wood whereas Ash is more of an open grained wood. Maple is close grained but also quite a bit harder than both Alder and Ash. Mahogany tends to respond to sanding much like Ash. Basswood and Pine (Fender) are softwoods. Though Basswood is relatively closed grain, its softness makes the finish dive deeper into the pores of the wood. Maple is so hard that the finish stays much closer to the surface. This also means that I wouldn’t use a thin finish on Basswood though I might on Maple. Hopefully I’ve explained this idea well enough to be understandable. All said and done, finish is 50% science and 50% art.
You are blessed for choice! To my ears, with the clean and lower gain tones, the VOS had a bit more gain and sounded like it had a bit more sharpness to the high end. The ML sounded a bit more dynamic, with a slightly more rounded top end. The differences kind of reminded me of the difference between SD and Ox pickup comparison you did with the ML being the Ox pups. Once you hit the higher gain, I hear very little difference. My preference would be for the ML (like it was for the Ox pups) as it has the tone I would want in a Les Paul and I like the more rounded fretboard edges. I would be very curious what a ML Brazilian would bring to the table and whether it would be markedly noticeable or the equivalent to the differences between different examples of the same model. Great playing, as always. I enjoy your comparison videos and look forward to the next one.
Thanks for the kind words and observations as always - much appreciated! I relate to much of this an heard it very similarly. I found a killer ML heavy aged which I'll shootout with light aged next!
Congratulations on acquiring that awesome ML! Great video as ever. I may have missed it but there are a couple of known differences between these two and at least one unknown. The first is that the WW spec CBs are slightly lower wind, or at least that’s how my R9 60th is. Second known is that the bridge PUP without its cover would result in a pretty noticeable difference tone wise. The unknown, which I may have missed if you mentioned it but the weights of these two guitars would presumably be different and I am going to guess the new ML is the lighter based in part to what I perceived as a better tone overall. I preferred the ML on the opening clean tracks, it just sounded sweeter and a bit fuller. For the medium gain, I think I may have preferred the VOS and wonder if that may be due to the lower wind and the way it works with the Vemuran, perhaps the sweeter clipping was just with the slightly lower output? For the acoustic comparison, the ML eclipsed the VOS, it just sounded so much better, no contest, this may in part be due to the finish but I suspect it has something to do with the weight and bridge and saddles to a greater extent. For the high gain, I much preferred the ML, it once again just seemed sweeter, and more “solid” if that makes sense. As far as a comparison video between the Tele and a LP is concerned, is a Tele better, to be a bit terse, no fucking way, I would say neither is better, just different tools for different jobs. In terms of versatility I suppose an argument could be made for the Tele but I want both guitars for different purposes. Forgive the long reply but given your thorough demo, I feel it merits a thorough response. That was pretty cool the way the two splices seemed to match, very trippy. Thanks for taking time to make these very interesting, cool demos, keep up the great work!
Thanks as always for thoughtful and insightful response, Drew! Indeed the WW has low-win CB's and it's actually the lighter of the two guitars. While the guitars sound different, I expected more of a difference especially considering the different winds, weight, and uncovered bridge - but they're both Lesters afterall. I wholeheartedly agree with your POV on the Tele and LP. I like them both for different things and if I could only have one or the other, a Les Paul would be more versatile for my playing style.
We in the audience can’t judge the feel and playability of course, and these two guitars differed only slightly in sound, but the Murphy lab definitely sounded smoother (VOS a little shrill by comparison in most sections including the A/B clip). Listening by iPhone with Sennheiser earbuds.
I hear stronger mids with the Murphy Labs, and a smoother attack. When you showed us the acoustic tone, I was impressed how these acoustic characteristics come through the plugged sound! The VOS one has a more “modern” attack and scooped tone. Obviously they sound different, not necessarily one better than the other.
Well said - I agree! The ML kids are quite distinct. Also, great observation about the acoustic characteristics translating electrically. That has been my experience as well despite many folks trying to debunk that wood/construction doesn't impact the sound.
Thanks, Steven! Haha - that got a laugh out of me! There's some truth to that for sure! (less so about me and more about the reality of how you play has a bigger impact on tone in general).
I like the overall mood of your show and, of course, nice, warm, thick sounds you achieve every time - keep it coming! As to guitars - I like the sound of the Lab a little bit more and VOS - WAY more for the looks. Sorry for my English, greetings from Warsaw!
Both great sounding instruments and well-done video presentation. Your LPs are voiced differently due to finish and unique characteristics of woods used for each. The VOS is more modern sounding, with an edge of aggressiveness and clarity that would fit into a high energy rock context by jumping out of the mix. The ML has a warmer tone with additional depth, nuances that might get lost in a dense, high energy mix but add color to a soft rock, country or jazz performance. Recently acquired a ML BRW Ltd, first new Gibson in 30 years, the second oldest Gibson I own was made in 1964. Own or have owned and played 1957 Jr, TV, GT, 1958 BB and 1961 LP/SG along with 6 other PAF Gibsons, and this ML is a keeper. Dig the rounded shoulders and the fact that it weighs 8lbs. A5 Custombuckers didn't do it for me so Ron Ellis LRPs made it complete. Great video!
Yeah. I've had 2 R9s, one a Murphy light aged, the other VOS. Royal tea burst, and Southern Fade. The VOS had a nicer flame top, but the ML was painted a bit nicer. They both had the same pickups, and the ML was noticeably darker sounding. I had to sell it to get my dog spinal surgery($12500cad FFS!!), but I'll be hunting for a nice one after the holidays.
Amazing tops, and your guitar playing and compositions are great. I never saw amazing tops like that in any music store ever. Love the dark fingerboard on both guitars. Looks like Indian rosewood.
Hey Johnathan, this has been one of your best videos...I have tried to find direct comparison videos between the LP VoS & ML and they are pretty much non existent. I'm also in the chase to find the perfect LP and I just traded in my Murphy Lab for another one that has a much better top and oh surprise: The high E string buzzed when bending, much more notable in the high register...The culprit was the saddle, I just filed it very lightly and the problem was gone. It took me a couple days to figure it out but what a coincidence you experienced the same thing with yours! Finally, I hope you can comment on why you wanna buy a Brazilian Rosewood ML...You really think they are better? Why? Thanks! 🤘🏻
Thank you! It means a lot to know as I was proud of my effort on this one. It makes me happy to know the video filled a void out there! Wow - we'd really had parallel experiences with the ML stuff in several ways! Glad you figured out that buzz. I can't believe they don't have 2 extra minutes to spare to catch/fix that kind of stuff before it ships out. The MLB's interest me mostly due to using Brazilian rosewood, which I've come to prefer in general. Several of my boutique guitars utilize it and I associate it with a higher quality instrument. I like the look and feel of it being darker and more oily in general. Also, I believe it adds a little something extra tonally, but hard to say what exactly. That may just be correlation with the higher build quality of the boutique guitars, but maybe not. MLB owners seem to be blown away by them. That said, I haven't heard a single demo on RUclips that excited me so I don't know what to make of that. Also, the color of the metals is a little odd to me, but that is a minor thing really. As luck would have it, a ML heavy aged just hit Reverb that ticked all the boxes for me so maybe I've found the one. We'll see when it arrives and I'll report back in a future video!
@@RatherBeRiffing Thanks so much for your reply. So it looks like we have 2 awesome videos coming up: the new Les Paul ML Heavy Aged and the LP ML Indian Rosewood vs Brazilian Rosewood Comparison. Keep riffing my friend! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
8:52 I found it very interesting when you were speaking of "Old Tops" with a vintage style look to them. A really exceptional flame pattern/type is the top found on "Last Burst" (purportedly the very last LP Burst produced in 1960), it's so amazing how the flame pattern's chatoyance breaks down into small offshoots of figuring. Seriously, do a search for "Last Burst", a very beautiful example of a vintage instrument.
Thank you for speaking for my experience owning and playing a Murphy Lab.Not only does it look good, but when I hold the neck and play I can feel the mojo in my left hand. My Private Stock and Dolphin also give me the mojo, even though I can't explain it in the comments.
Dear Jonathan, first of all, thank you very much for this comparison and another great video! The finish and look of both guitars is fantastic and basically both LPs sound excellent - something that is of course also due to your skill and tasteful playing. Personally, I think the ML sounds a bit more open, transparent and three-dimensional compared to the VOS, as far as I can tell. I've been lucky enough to own a '58 Murphy Lab light aged for a year now and can confirm this sonic impression at least from my own experience. I had compared various Les Pauls at the time (CS / VOS / ML) and the one I now own stood out in the sum of its small details. Above all, the sound was and is "magical" - how the tone can be shaped, how harmonic overtones develop with gently struck chords, a sustain to kneel down to, etc. etc. Also the fantastic playability, the look and last but not least the feeling of playing this guitar... incredible (I have to admit that the psyche certainly plays a role...). But I guess you can tell how enthusiastic I am, so I apologise for my rambling. ;-) In any case, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you find "your" Les Paul. I'm already looking forward to new videos from you and remain with best regards Volker
Thanks for the kind words as always, Volker - much appreciated! It sounds like we've had a similar experience with our ML's - I'm really enjoying mine!! After I posted my last video, I found another ML that I hope is "the one". It has the look, color, an aging that I prefer. It will arrive soon and I hope it has the feel and sound too. I can't wait to try its out and feature it in the next couple of videos. Stay tuned!
@@RatherBeRiffing That’s awesome, I'm pleased for you that you've found another ML and have the opportunity to try it out. And if it meets your requirements even better, that's great - it's a bit like searching for the Holy Grail, isn't it? I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the new one. Best regards, Volker
Hi, great playing Johnathan and top of the line gear.. In the Les Paul' the pho channel switching capabilities are the best part in my opinion. I would go for the better feeling Murphy lab aged. I like the dark burst on the Murphy painted guitar better. Keep rockin'
Great video, Jonathan! Loved the playing and appreciate the comparison! I've wondered how different the ML's are in sound. To my ears, it's so close. Both guitars sound phenomenal. I think the ML had a little sweeter neck pickup, but it's subtle, imo. It could just come down to the feel of the guitar to be the decision-maker. I find I appreciate a guitar's feel and ergonomics much more than I used to. Cheers! 🍻
Thanks as always! I can relate. As I've developed and matured as a player, I find I can get a good tone out of most anything and that the playing experience matters more in terms of inspiration/expression. That said, I still loving chasing/trying new guitars! Cheers!
Great video! They both sound great, but wow... the top and finish on that VOS is gorgeous. I have an 2016 R8 in bourbon burst and can't conceive of a better sounding Les Paul. Haven't tried any of the Murphy Labs though.
Beautiful playing and great work on doing the comparison - I have been looking for this comparison in the past and it was great to see such a professional and considered job in doing it. To my ears there wasn’t really much in it in terms of sound. I agree that the feel of the guitar has such an impact on the player and that’s possibly more of an organic thing, rather than reality. However in a live context, I’m pretty sure most of the crowd ain’t going to hear it. And in a recording, a lot of that sound will be lost in the mix. However in saying that, the performance will be what stands out and that comes from the feeling and bond with the guitar. I feel that there are way to many guitar players out there these days that love to talk every minutia of tone, but never get out of their well heeled guitar room to hear live music or even record with others, that incessant quest for tone goes out the window and you work with what you have and I would argue that the performance can still be great.
The only thing better than owning a Les Paul is owning two! That said, if you could find the right Murphy Lab Brazilian, then YES, trade them both towards that. But only if the Brazilian LP is "The One". I've justified owning more than one Les Paul by leaving them in different tunings. I'll admit though, between my electric and acoustic guitars, caring for them does take time, time I could be spending playing. Great Content, I love the Murphy, however the Wildwood Spec has a top and color I more prefer (almost a reverse Chevron top).
Ive had two R9s, and the ML sounded much darker. I sold one, and traded the other for a 61 Strat refin. Ill be going for another one after the holidays. I also just got the Jan Ray, and that really puts LPs onto another level. Best pedal Ive used in years.
Weirdly enough, my Murphy Lab 59 had the same issue with the buzz on the high E. I just had to push the bridge back a little since it has a little bit of play on the posts and adjust intonation accordingly. If it happens again, I'm gonna check the angles you mentioned. Thanks John for the heads up, great video and playing as always.
I just got a Magnatone Twilighter and I jacked the Magnatone into my Friedman BE Deluxe. It's the best tone I've ever made. I use my R9, but I'm considering a Murphy Lab 68 RI.
Congrats - I bet that rig sounds killer! I've got an original BE100 and that amp changed everything about how I approach tone. The touch sensitivity and dynamics are off the charts!
Well done again Jonathan! This was the video I was waiting for, honestly, being a current owner of a light aged ML ‘59 reissue LP and former owner of an R0. I echo your comments on the feel of the ML in the hand. There’s nothing quite like it, honestly. My R0 felt great but played in comparison to the ML which feels alive in the hand and on your chest. Mine rings like a bell. As for the tone, yeah it’s hard to compare two individual guitars as you know and make general conclusions. However, I have played a number of historic reissues and some I liked much more than others. A few I felt were really nice to great in tone and feel and a few were average. On the contrary, when I went to Gibson Garage to check out the ML LPs I felt that every one they handed me (like 10 at least) was fantastic, even if there was some variance from guitar to guitar, as you would expect. I picked my favorite which is an unbelievable guitar that has a difficult to describe crispy woodiness (that’s the best I got, lol) that sounds so rich and organic, like you said. It’s not miles apart from my old R0 (which I ended up selling because of the ML), but it’s definitely different and nothing I’ve heard from an historic. It just sounds so old and much like you hear from the best of the bursts. Interestingly a friend bought a R9 VOS finish after I bought my ‘59 ML and his sounds and feels a little lifeless next to mine. So yes, I think there’s something to the finish! And BTW I think these ML guitars sound every bit a good as most bursts I’ve heard recordings of.
Hey I forgot to mention about the Brazilians. I haven’t played one but I know Todd Anthony Puma (insane collector) has several of them (in addition to a bazillion LP’s, lol) and he’s crazy about them. He thinks the limited Brazilians are definitely a step up from regular ML. LMK if you want to get connected to Todd, if you haven’t already.
Both are great LP's ! To me, the Murphy lab is more vintage/traditional in its looks and tones, the VOS being more modern. Its pickups have a slightly higher output to my ear. I don't think you would obtain a better instrument with the limited brazilian. I've played two, a LP and a Suhr, and I don't think it makes a real difference except for the look and the price. My advice: keep both if you can or just the Murphy lab if you feel more comfortable and inspired with it. Cheers !
The word you're looking for is Resonance. Relic'd guitars, where the finish is worn down to thin or nothing, tend to resonate more than new finish guitars. Like you show here, I have a two 59 reissues, a Murphy heavy relic (7lbs15oz), and a non-relic'd chambered 59 (7lbs6oz). The Murphy resonates more than the chambered LP, which is kind of crazy. But even though the chambered LP is lighter, it has a normal, nitro, non-relic finish, so it's thicker than the Murphy's heavy relic finish with large parts of bare wood peaking through. I love and will keep both guitars, but for resonance, the Murphy wins. FWIW, I've had the same experience with superstrats. I have several superstrats made by the same company. The relic'd ones resonate more than the ones with normal finishes. And in my personal experience, the more bare wood that coming through the finish, the more the guitar resonates. Your mileage may vary. As for the brazilian rosewood, it's great, but not measurably better than the indian boards Gibson is using in the CS and the ML. I have a vintage LP with a brazilian board and you'd be hard pressed to see/hear any difference between the fingerboard types. Put another way, there's no way in hell that the brazilian board is worth the $8-10K upcharge Gibson is asking for it. They're doubling the price of the guitar just because of the brazilan board. In your shoe's, I'd MUCH rather have the two LPs you have in your hands than ONE with a brazilian board.
I have 14 CS Les Pauls but I'm still on the hunt! :))) I'am afraid I will always be on the hunt, and maybe that's a great thing. I agree about the Murphy Lab: the one in my hands (2023) sounds more alive too. And it's very lightweight: 3,6 kilos (7.9 lbs), so its tone is not so big. But my favourite is still the same: a 59 LP (2013). Its top is nothing special but it is the Les Paul that sounds better among my standard historics. It's funny cause I had a super nice looking 59 (2020) but I sold it right away cause it sounded too dark. My impression is that you are going to sell both! And I could be ok with that, cause even if they are both awesome, your playing is great and you deserve to keep on hunting for the best one.
Great video !! Tonally, I think the Murphy sounded a little more 'warm' across the board both high and low. The VOS sounded very slightly 'brighter / aggressive' especially when overdriven. The VOS was a more beautiful finish i.e. deep gloss (which I love) rather than the Murphy, which looked a bit lacklustre and a might shabby in comparison (clearly Murphy achieved their aim). Both were true 'Les Paul-sounding' and excellent IMHO 🙂 My ideal between the two would be the sound of the Murphy with the finish of the VOS. Great playing BTW.
Thanks for the kind words and observations - much appreciated! I heard some subtle but distinct differences as well. Hard to put into words, but also thought the VOS was more aggressive (I hear it in the upper mids).
I think it has a strong mid focus/push that gives it more attitude. I hear a bit more of an upper mid thing in the VOS that is also cool, but different.
Two beautiful Les Pauls, both with incredible tone. One of them, however, has rolled fretboard edges and a more “natural” finish. There is your winner. Oh, and any video that involves a Tele is a definite YES for me. Thanks for asking!
Thanks for a fascinating comparison. I preferred the sound of the Murphy Labs generally, nicer mids, more body to the sound. Out of interest, what are the weights of the two guitars?
To my ears the VOS had a little more sparkle and presence - as in your playing was more present - than the Murphy lab. The Murphy lab sounded really balanced and really excellent as well. I’d say keep them both and maybe have one in a different tuning but that’s probably not feasible 😂
I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on another that would require me to sell both of these, but keeping both would leave me with two complimentary voiced Lester's so we'll have to see!
Even at the risk of repeating myself: the most impressive thing is your soulful playing. As for these two guitars: both sound great! I really don't know if the laquer is responsible for the noticable difference in sound and I am not experienced enough to say that a Brazilian fretboard makes a difference (except in price 🙂). Two factors that are important to me are the shape of the neck and weight. I used to own an R8. A great guitar but I just couldn't handle the big neck. I am not sure if the weight of such a guitar influences its sound but I know that anything beyond 4 kg is uncomfortable to me. Guitars are individuals - so my advice (if you needed any) would be: choose the guitar that you feel most comfortable with, but don't make things like a Brazilian fretboard a point for your decision.
Thanks for the kind words and input as always, Gary! It’s funny, I already found the guitar that I consider “the one” (I.e., perfect weight, feel, tone, look, etc). It’s my Gil Yaron Bone 59. I don’t think I’ll top that guitar with a ML LP, but I love the look of a LP and on the search for one that ticks all the boxes for me. I have a non-Brazilian ML heavy aged incoming that’s seems to rock many of the boxes… let’s see how it sounds and feels!
Both guitars sound amazing...I can definitely detect a difference in the high frequencies between the guitars, The Gibson VOS has a bit more high frequencies which can be caused by many things! I must admit that the difference in sound between them is very minor
Both the Murphy lab and the VOS sound very similar. I think the Murphy lab articulates just a tiny bit more. The rolled edges are nice and if that's what makes you feel more comfortable than so be it. The only problem I really see is saying goodbye to the Vos would be like saying goodbye to a very good old friend I don't think I could do that my Les Paul is my best friend. I do have many Les pauls but there is one in particular that I could never get rid of.
The carves do feel a bit different. They were made 5 years apart so I’m. It sure if they tweaked the carve. Seems a tiny less shoulder on the ML and the fingerboard edges are rolled. The finish feels very different. The ML feels old and worn in.
Murphy lab is the winner for me. I used to think the concept of aging a new guitar was so dumb, but really I was dumb lol. I am now a big fan of the ML. I hope to have one some day
I used to have an opinion, but it's been shaken by my SG. I love the goldtop for its p90s and comfy, fatter neck, and I love the burst for its looks and more agile neck and the 61 burstbuckers are awesome sleeper pickups. But those necks are nothing compared to the 2004 SG Special Faded I found. It's stained not painted, so after 20 years of play wear, the neck feels like a fender custom shop, you know the weirdly lumpy, slick feel of that grime on a custom shop neck, except it's the real thing the custom shop is trying to recreate. But also there was no gloss to wear through, so the arm wear looks like it's way older, and the way this thing rings out. There is this incredibly loud midrange to this guitar acoustically, it's shocking. And with local made scatterwound pickups and a rare fat neck, this SG weighs in at 5.4 pounds. That is not a typo. So it stands to reason the neck dive is nuts, but there's zero -- none -- all the lightweighyness must be in that big fifties neck that feels so wonderfully smooth yet . . . not smooth, in the fastest way possible. This guitar is worth less than a grand, and it blows everything else away. My other four main guitars are each worth at least 3x the SG, but none of them compare to a custom shop. I would take the Pepsi challenge against a custom shop with my sub $1k SG, and win every time. So now I judge every guitar on its own merit, and I don't overlook anything.
I thought the purpose of CS Gibsons was that there are no plasticizers in the finish. The main difference with USA Gibsons was that, hide glue and neck tenons. ML does use a different formula than VOS with sometimes not great results.
Hmm... I'm not 100% actually. You have me wondering too. Maybe someone could chime in. The ML feels much closer to the finish on my Bartlett Retrospec, which Tom (Bartlett) explicitly markets as no plasticizers. Gibson is a bit more vague with all of this stuff.
Very true, it wouldn’t be the first time Gibson misinformed its customers. I still love my WW 58’ Les Paul no matter the finish. Amazing production and playing as usual!
sounds great. Vos has a lot more attack. more highs and midst. It almost feel like you add a clean boost that has an eq or compression. So from a tone stand point and a feel did the Brazilian have a difference. Was thinking about a prs with Brazilian board.
Oh wow - that’s cool! I didn’t realize they would check (I like the look of it). I’ve had my VOS for 5 years and no checking, but it really hasn’t left the temp/humidity controlled studio much.
@@RatherBeRiffing my 2019 r9 vos has developed checking only horizontally and only on the lower half of the "face". Asking the pickguard, knobs and the pickup rings. But I had recently traded it in for a brand new '68 reissue custom. I've always wanted one and it sounds better than my r9, especially the neck - it has no mud at all - very clear in the whole register. You can try it along your search - it has differently voiced custombuckers, maybe you'll like them, too. As I've mentioned before, you can get a can of compressed air and easily create a very thin checking if you spray your guitar on a warm day or in a warm room. My friend's guitar looks cool afterwards - the cracks are so thin that you see them only if the light falls on their side. If you look at them along the light they disappear almost completely. I'm not much into Murphy lab, I think his checking is very random. I think pre Murphy the aging was more sophisticated, but to each his own :)
Bernie marsden(RIP) the whitesnake guitarist and owner of the 59 named The Beast played a bunch of modern historic's And the only thing he critiqued on was the finish felt thicker to him than on his old original 59. The Murphy lab solves this with its thinner more true to spec Nitro. Vos is better for someone that wants to keep the guitar new looking without checking and dents and dings.
At the end of the day The latest Murphy labs are the closest you're going to get to a old original unless you are OK with the $25k and higher price and long wait time from a private builder. A used Bartlett is selling for 30k😱a Yaron is even more IF you can even find one for sale. Yaron 59 clones were unbelieable!!!
Agree! I’ve played Yaron’s and Bartlett’s. I believe they are on average a notch above the Murphy Lab stuff. My Yaron Bone 59 is unbelievable and it’s my only guitar I truly believe I will never sell.
First time visitor enjoying your videos. Are you saying for the string buzz you filed the nut and not raised the high end of the saddle a half turn or so? Interesting. The guitars definitely sound different and your sound set up broadcasts the nuances beautifully .. but I don't know that I have a preference. They are both beautiful guitars and you're a lucky dude to have them both to compare.
Thank you for the kind words and glad you are enjoying! I filed the bridge saddle to the proper angle to eliminate the buzz. The sitar type buzz occurs on fretted notes when there the string has too much contact point on the bridge saddle. Worked like a charm!
@@RatherBeRiffing With a tip of the cap to stewmac I'm gad you were able to diagnose and fix that buzz so quickly! The gentleman below and his discourse on finishes was great too ..
I think this one is going to have to come down to feel. I did prefer the VOS in some instances and the murphy lab in others. In any case they are much more similar than they are different, sound-wise. I would definitely say keep the Murphy lab because of your experience with it, and I would also suggest grabbing a Yaron or Bartlett 59 replica and compare them!
Thanks for the input! I agree and was surprised how similar they sounded, especially considering they were built 5years apart and have some differences in spec. That would a great comparison (I suspect the boutique guys would still come out on top from my experience).
@@RatherBeRiffing I suspect the same, considering the wood choices the boutique builders use (old growth Honduras Mahogany and Brazilian Rosewood is a hard combo to beat). However it would be interesting to see how they compare!
I couldn’t really discern much about different in the sound, but love the look of the VOS. I’m sure at that price point it’s more about preferences in feel rather than sound. Whatever you do. DON’T play a vintage burst or all others will be ruined. 😂
I went through this probably two months ago. I played all types of custom shops 58 59, 60s. I played ultra light aged Murphy labs all the way to heavy and I went back to a example vos RO I felt the Murphy labs were brighter they were For sale that old pair of jeans that fit perfect, but just bothered me that I’m spending that much money on a relic guitar that I know over time will increase in aging. But then I found an RO re-issue from the beauty and the burst magazine and A. was the one for me.
Thanks for sharing, Michael - so relatable and glad you found the one! I seem to go through this process when Gibson makes major spec changes (I did in 2013, 2019, and now again with ML). I guess it’s part of the fun to some extent. Good point about the aging. I wonder how they’ll hold up over time. I’ve got a ML heavy aged incoming that I love the look of. Hopefully I connect with the sound and feel so I can let my G.A.S hibernate once again!
@@RatherBeRiffing I think the overall thing is the guitar that inspires the one that you don’t have to worry about or it just fits perfect so allows the artist to come through easier. Not sure a lot of people say I like to fight my guitar sometimes not me. I’m excited to see what you’re gonna do with the telecaster versus the Les Paul
I promise you this, put a set of Kossof Throbak pickups in the 2019 R9 and it will wipe the floor with the ML. If you get the chance to then please do, you won’t be disappointed.
Guys... I swear it!... I got my gas under control! I'll probably never buy any new guitar ever again! That's AMAZING!!! I FEEL TICKLES IN MY DANGUS!!! 🎉🎉🎉
To my ears it is as if the Murphy Lab has 9's and the VOS has 10's ...likely both have same guage but that to me is the difference...bright , clear, articulate... opposed to stiff, muffled (slightly) ... Curious what you are using for strings
My My its a deep Rabbit Hole chasing THE tone .. to my ears id keep the WildWood VOS hands down .. in my plight of chasing tone ive found just changing pots from 500k to 550k has made the most difference in my LPs .. also ive found to my ear Tom Doyle PAFs really just hit the mark 100% ,, real oil Bee's or Orange caps im on the fence and use them both in different guitars .. anyway the VOS hands down in my book
Thanks for sharing! It’s a rabbit hole for sure! I’d love to try 550k - any recommendation on make? The Doyle Coils are in my radar as well. What do you like about them?
It’s your imagination LOL. Now, feel is important, and how the neck/fingerboard feels in your hand is more than half the guitar’s value to a player, because playability and sound are the two most important criteria, with aesthetics being the final consideration. Sometimes, the look may positively or negatively affect one’s perceptions of the feel and sound … if you think one guitar is aesthetically superior, that can influence your perception of sound. Both featured guitars are top shelf choices, and superior to 90+ % of the thousands of guitars on the market. I prefer the more durable finish of your original over the Murphy Lab aged, because it will maintain its beauty over time, and whatever aging it experiences will be organic, rather than artificial. The best way to choose is to line up the choices, and play each one, blind folded. That way, you will be evaluating the only two points that are actually relevant …. Feel and sound. Find what feels and sounds best to you, and stick with it. Chasing perfection is a fool’s errand, unless you just have too much money, and need to get rid of some. In a Guitar player’s ideal world, you find a great LP, Strat, and Tele, and you have all of the bases covered. But if you look at the iconic greats, you’ll notice most of them settle in with one primary guitar which becomes their trademark. Stevie Ray and his Strat. Jimi and his Strat. Duane Allman and his Les Paul … Joe Bonamassa and his Les Paul … Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Buddy Guy, Gilmore, and the list goes on forever …. every single one of their guitars are connected to them. When you think of Hendrix, you don’t visualize him with a Telecaster in his hands … when you think tele, you think Brent Mason.
I agree. I've played several guitars from Barltett and Yaron (own a Retrospect and Bone 59). I do find their builds superior to ML. However, I think the ML stuff is excellent and even more accurate in some details (headstock shape, logo, etc.). I would love to hear a ML with old-growth Honduran and a Brazilian board. They'd probably charge $40k for something like that though.
That chorus that you play in all of your videos is so annoying when you try to demonstrate a guitar. Dude, play the guitar without chorus in order to hear what the actual guitar sounds like ... otherwise it's pointless. You just can't compare sounds with that chorus ...
There is no difference. They are the same guitars. Murphy Labs and Custom Shop VOS are finishing options. They are the same exact guitars underneath. So one or the other won’t have any effect on the sound.
Hey Johnathan, this has been one of your best videos...I have tried to find direct comparison videos between the LP VoS & ML and there are pretty much non existent. I'm also in the chase to find the perfect LP and I just traded in my Murphy Lab for another one that has a much better top and oh surprise: The high E string buzzed when bending, much more notable in the high register...The culprit was the saddle, I just filed it very lightly and the problem was gone. It took me a couple days to figure it out but what a coincidence you experienced a similar issue with yours! Finally, I hope you can comment on why you wanna buy a Brazilian Rosewood ML...You really think they are better? Why? Thanks! 🤘🏻
Very fun video, Jon! I may have mentioned this to you before, but the Les Paul and I go back to the early 80s. And I’ve been in the woodworking industry from that time forward. Anyway, to my ears, I believe that I hear a tiny bit of “extra” presence on the Murphy Lab. I hear a little more “girth” on your VOS. Given my personal preference, the VOS tone is a small bit more to my liking. This is as subjective as things get. Having finished wood for a long time, I can provide a little extra information on how the finish works. Within the category of “nitro” lacquers, it’s possible to create different “recipes”. Plasticiser, helps a tiny bit with durability, but a big part of what contributes to “durability” is the amount of “solids” in the recipe. Plasticiser is one of the “solids” in the brew, but not the only one (while the chemical composition is interesting, it’s probably too boring for most, so I’ll leave that part out). Yes, the finish being applied (sprayed) is fluid, but that “fluid” always includes a certain amount of solids. Basically, the higher the solid content, the thicker and tougher the finish. This aspect is also affected by how many layers of sealer and top coat are applied to the guitar. The more layers of top coat, the tougher the finish and you can also get more depth and translucence in the finish. However, the arguable downside is that you suffocate the wood more with each layer. This is also an arguable benefit to using a thinner finish as the wood absolutely “breathes” a lot more. Unfortunately, thin finishes also increase the wood’s reactivity to environmental changes (climate/season/temperature/humidity). It’s actually a fascinating topic. For whatever this is worth knowing, thin finishes on touring guitars are one of the most dreaded battles touring guitarists have to deal with.
Thanks as always! Amazing insights and thanks for sharing! This makes sense to me and is fascinating to understand more about how this all works. It helps me understand why all my finishes on my boutique guitars all feel/look different despite all of them being “nitro”. It’s probably also a fun / frustrating rabbit hole for luthiers to experiment and find their ideal tradeoff among look, sound, durability, and probably effort/cost as well. Thanks again!
@@RatherBeRiffing You are very welcome. There are a host of other factors involved as well. How was the wood sanded? What kind sandpaper was used and what grit sequence of sand paper was used? The normal approach is to start with relatively coarser grits and move to finer grits with each sanding step (I might start with 80 grit, move to 100 and then 120 and then 150 or 180; finish sand would be 220). Some of this depends upon how much of the sanding is done with machine and how much by hand; flat surfaces more machine and shaped surfaces more hand. It can also depend on the wood specie used. Alder is a closed-grain wood whereas Ash is more of an open grained wood. Maple is close grained but also quite a bit harder than both Alder and Ash. Mahogany tends to respond to sanding much like Ash. Basswood and Pine (Fender) are softwoods. Though Basswood is relatively closed grain, its softness makes the finish dive deeper into the pores of the wood. Maple is so hard that the finish stays much closer to the surface. This also means that I wouldn’t use a thin finish on Basswood though I might on Maple. Hopefully I’ve explained this idea well enough to be understandable. All said and done, finish is 50% science and 50% art.
You are blessed for choice! To my ears, with the clean and lower gain tones, the VOS had a bit more gain and sounded like it had a bit more sharpness to the high end. The ML sounded a bit more dynamic, with a slightly more rounded top end. The differences kind of reminded me of the difference between SD and Ox pickup comparison you did with the ML being the Ox pups. Once you hit the higher gain, I hear very little difference. My preference would be for the ML (like it was for the Ox pups) as it has the tone I would want in a Les Paul and I like the more rounded fretboard edges. I would be very curious what a ML Brazilian would bring to the table and whether it would be markedly noticeable or the equivalent to the differences between different examples of the same model. Great playing, as always. I enjoy your comparison videos and look forward to the next one.
Thanks for the kind words and observations as always - much appreciated! I relate to much of this an heard it very similarly. I found a killer ML heavy aged which I'll shootout with light aged next!
Congratulations on acquiring that awesome ML! Great video as ever. I may have missed it but there are a couple of known differences between these two and at least one unknown.
The first is that the WW spec CBs are slightly lower wind, or at least that’s how my R9 60th is. Second known is that the bridge PUP without its cover would result in a pretty noticeable difference tone wise. The unknown, which I may have missed if you mentioned it but the weights of these two guitars would presumably be different and I am going to guess the new ML is the lighter based in part to what I perceived as a better tone overall.
I preferred the ML on the opening clean tracks, it just sounded sweeter and a bit fuller. For the medium gain, I think I may have preferred the VOS and wonder if that may be due to the lower wind and the way it works with the Vemuran, perhaps the sweeter clipping was just with the slightly lower output?
For the acoustic comparison, the ML eclipsed the VOS, it just sounded so much better, no contest, this may in part be due to the finish but I suspect it has something to do with the weight and bridge and saddles to a greater extent.
For the high gain, I much preferred the ML, it once again just seemed sweeter, and more “solid” if that makes sense.
As far as a comparison video between the Tele and a LP is concerned, is a Tele better, to be a bit terse, no fucking way, I would say neither is better, just different tools for different jobs. In terms of versatility I suppose an argument could be made for the Tele but I want both guitars for different purposes.
Forgive the long reply but given your thorough demo, I feel it merits a thorough response. That was pretty cool the way the two splices seemed to match, very trippy.
Thanks for taking time to make these very interesting, cool demos, keep up the great work!
I agree with the above. It is those reasons why I bought a Murphy lab.
Thanks as always for thoughtful and insightful response, Drew!
Indeed the WW has low-win CB's and it's actually the lighter of the two guitars. While the guitars sound different, I expected more of a difference especially considering the different winds, weight, and uncovered bridge - but they're both Lesters afterall.
I wholeheartedly agree with your POV on the Tele and LP. I like them both for different things and if I could only have one or the other, a Les Paul would be more versatile for my playing style.
I like the VOS in this case - and I don't really know why? I like the sound better, I guess, finish wise as well I'm, really not into the relic stuff.
We in the audience can’t judge the feel and playability of course, and these two guitars differed only slightly in sound, but the Murphy lab definitely sounded smoother (VOS a little shrill by comparison in most sections including the A/B clip). Listening by iPhone with Sennheiser earbuds.
Thanks for the observations! Well said - it's a subtle but distinct difference, which seems to be a theme in the comments so far!
I hear stronger mids with the Murphy Labs, and a smoother attack. When you showed us the acoustic tone, I was impressed how these acoustic characteristics come through the plugged sound! The VOS one has a more “modern” attack and scooped tone. Obviously they sound different, not necessarily one better than the other.
Well said - I agree! The ML kids are quite distinct. Also, great observation about the acoustic characteristics translating electrically. That has been my experience as well despite many folks trying to debunk that wood/construction doesn't impact the sound.
Jonathan, your playing can make a Walmart guitar sound fabulous! And, you have great taste in beer! Keep up the great work!!
Thanks, Steven! Haha - that got a laugh out of me! There's some truth to that for sure! (less so about me and more about the reality of how you play has a bigger impact on tone in general).
I like the overall mood of your show and, of course, nice, warm, thick sounds you achieve every time - keep it coming! As to guitars - I like the sound of the Lab a little bit more and VOS - WAY more for the looks. Sorry for my English, greetings from Warsaw!
Totally 100% agreed!
Thanks, will do! I can relate - I'm looking for one that I love both the looks and sound.
Both great sounding instruments and well-done video presentation. Your LPs are voiced differently due to finish and unique characteristics of woods used for each. The VOS is more modern sounding, with an edge of aggressiveness and clarity that would fit into a high energy rock context by jumping out of the mix. The ML has a warmer tone with additional depth, nuances that might get lost in a dense, high energy mix but add color to a soft rock, country or jazz performance. Recently acquired a ML BRW Ltd, first new Gibson in 30 years, the second oldest Gibson I own was made in 1964. Own or have owned and played 1957 Jr, TV, GT, 1958 BB and 1961 LP/SG along with 6 other PAF Gibsons, and this ML is a keeper. Dig the rounded shoulders and the fact that it weighs 8lbs. A5 Custombuckers didn't do it for me so Ron Ellis LRPs made it complete. Great video!
Two exact VOS R9’s will/can sound different. Same with Murphy Lab. Wood is gonna do what wood does.
No doubt!
Yeah. I've had 2 R9s, one a Murphy light aged, the other VOS. Royal tea burst, and Southern Fade. The VOS had a nicer flame top, but the ML was painted a bit nicer. They both had the same pickups, and the ML was noticeably darker sounding. I had to sell it to get my dog spinal surgery($12500cad FFS!!), but I'll be hunting for a nice one after the holidays.
@@RByrne I feel ya, I paid $6,000 for my kids cat to have a blockage in his urinary track cleared. WTH
Amazing tops, and your guitar playing and compositions are great. I never saw amazing tops like that in any music store ever. Love the dark fingerboard on both guitars. Looks like Indian rosewood.
Thanks for the kind words! Indeed IRW on these examples.
Hey Johnathan, this has been one of your best videos...I have tried to find direct comparison videos between the LP VoS & ML and they are pretty much non existent. I'm also in the chase to find the perfect LP and I just traded in my Murphy Lab for another one that has a much better top and oh surprise: The high E string buzzed when bending, much more notable in the high register...The culprit was the saddle, I just filed it very lightly and the problem was gone. It took me a couple days to figure it out but what a coincidence you experienced the same thing with yours! Finally, I hope you can comment on why you wanna buy a Brazilian Rosewood ML...You really think they are better? Why? Thanks! 🤘🏻
Thank you! It means a lot to know as I was proud of my effort on this one. It makes me happy to know the video filled a void out there!
Wow - we'd really had parallel experiences with the ML stuff in several ways! Glad you figured out that buzz. I can't believe they don't have 2 extra minutes to spare to catch/fix that kind of stuff before it ships out.
The MLB's interest me mostly due to using Brazilian rosewood, which I've come to prefer in general. Several of my boutique guitars utilize it and I associate it with a higher quality instrument. I like the look and feel of it being darker and more oily in general. Also, I believe it adds a little something extra tonally, but hard to say what exactly. That may just be correlation with the higher build quality of the boutique guitars, but maybe not.
MLB owners seem to be blown away by them. That said, I haven't heard a single demo on RUclips that excited me so I don't know what to make of that. Also, the color of the metals is a little odd to me, but that is a minor thing really.
As luck would have it, a ML heavy aged just hit Reverb that ticked all the boxes for me so maybe I've found the one. We'll see when it arrives and I'll report back in a future video!
@@RatherBeRiffing Thanks so much for your reply. So it looks like we have 2 awesome videos coming up: the new Les Paul ML Heavy Aged and the LP ML Indian Rosewood vs Brazilian Rosewood Comparison. Keep riffing my friend! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
8:52 I found it very interesting when you were speaking of "Old Tops" with a vintage style look to them.
A really exceptional flame pattern/type is the top found on "Last Burst" (purportedly the very last LP Burst produced in 1960), it's so amazing how the flame pattern's chatoyance breaks down into small offshoots of figuring.
Seriously, do a search for "Last Burst", a very beautiful example of a vintage instrument.
Oh wow - that is a unique top! I just found a photo of it on the cover of vintage guitar magazine. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for speaking for my experience owning and playing a Murphy Lab.Not only does it look good, but when I hold the neck and play I can feel the mojo in my left hand. My Private Stock and Dolphin also give me the mojo, even though I can't explain it in the comments.
My pleasure! Killer collection you have!
@@RatherBeRiffing
Cheers！
Dear Jonathan, first of all, thank you very much for this comparison and another great video!
The finish and look of both guitars is fantastic and basically both LPs sound excellent - something that is of course also due to your skill and tasteful playing.
Personally, I think the ML sounds a bit more open, transparent and three-dimensional compared to the VOS, as far as I can tell.
I've been lucky enough to own a '58 Murphy Lab light aged for a year now and can confirm this sonic impression at least from my own experience.
I had compared various Les Pauls at the time (CS / VOS / ML) and the one I now own stood out in the sum of its small details.
Above all, the sound was and is "magical" - how the tone can be shaped, how harmonic overtones develop with gently struck chords, a sustain to kneel down to, etc. etc.
Also the fantastic playability, the look and last but not least the feeling of playing this guitar... incredible (I have to admit that the psyche certainly plays a role...).
But I guess you can tell how enthusiastic I am, so I apologise for my rambling. ;-)
In any case, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you find "your" Les Paul.
I'm already looking forward to new videos from you and remain with best regards
Volker
Thanks for the kind words as always, Volker - much appreciated! It sounds like we've had a similar experience with our ML's - I'm really enjoying mine!!
After I posted my last video, I found another ML that I hope is "the one". It has the look, color, an aging that I prefer. It will arrive soon and I hope it has the feel and sound too. I can't wait to try its out and feature it in the next couple of videos. Stay tuned!
@@RatherBeRiffing That’s awesome, I'm pleased for you that you've found another ML and have the opportunity to try it out. And if it meets your requirements even better, that's great - it's a bit like searching for the Holy Grail, isn't it?
I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the new one.
Best regards, Volker
Hi, great playing Johnathan and top of the line gear.. In the Les Paul' the pho channel switching capabilities are the best part in my opinion. I would go for the better feeling Murphy lab aged. I like the dark burst on the Murphy painted guitar better. Keep rockin'
Great video, Jonathan! Loved the playing and appreciate the comparison! I've wondered how different the ML's are in sound. To my ears, it's so close. Both guitars sound phenomenal. I think the ML had a little sweeter neck pickup, but it's subtle, imo. It could just come down to the feel of the guitar to be the decision-maker. I find I appreciate a guitar's feel and ergonomics much more than I used to. Cheers! 🍻
Thanks as always! I can relate. As I've developed and matured as a player, I find I can get a good tone out of most anything and that the playing experience matters more in terms of inspiration/expression. That said, I still loving chasing/trying new guitars! Cheers!
Great video! They both sound great, but wow... the top and finish on that VOS is gorgeous. I have an 2016 R8 in bourbon burst and can't conceive of a better sounding Les Paul. Haven't tried any of the Murphy Labs though.
Beautiful playing and great work on doing the comparison - I have been looking for this comparison in the past and it was great to see such a professional and considered job in doing it. To my ears there wasn’t really much in it in terms of sound.
I agree that the feel of the guitar has such an impact on the player and that’s possibly more of an organic thing, rather than reality. However in a live context, I’m pretty sure most of the crowd ain’t going to hear it. And in a recording, a lot of that sound will be lost in the mix. However in saying that, the performance will be what stands out and that comes from the feeling and bond with the guitar.
I feel that there are way to many guitar players out there these days that love to talk every minutia of tone, but never get out of their well heeled guitar room to hear live music or even record with others, that incessant quest for tone goes out the window and you work with what you have and I would argue that the performance can still be great.
The only thing better than owning a Les Paul is owning two!
That said, if you could find the right Murphy Lab Brazilian, then YES, trade them both towards that.
But only if the Brazilian LP is "The One". I've justified owning more than one Les Paul by leaving them in different tunings.
I'll admit though, between my electric and acoustic guitars, caring for them does take time, time I could be spending playing.
Great Content, I love the Murphy, however the Wildwood Spec has a top and color I more prefer (almost a reverse Chevron top).
Truth! I'm good at rationalizing multiples and love collecting more justifications so thank you :-). Thanks as always!
Ive had two R9s, and the ML sounded much darker. I sold one, and traded the other for a 61 Strat refin. Ill be going for another one after the holidays. I also just got the Jan Ray, and that really puts LPs onto another level. Best pedal Ive used in years.
Weirdly enough, my Murphy Lab 59 had the same issue with the buzz on the high E. I just had to push the bridge back a little since it has a little bit of play on the posts and adjust intonation accordingly. If it happens again, I'm gonna check the angles you mentioned. Thanks John for the heads up, great video and playing as always.
Your playing transcends the guitar. Both sound great.
Thanks for the kind words! That’s what is all about at the end of the day!
I just got a Magnatone Twilighter and I jacked the Magnatone into my Friedman BE Deluxe. It's the best tone I've ever made. I use my R9, but I'm considering a Murphy Lab 68 RI.
Congrats - I bet that rig sounds killer! I've got an original BE100 and that amp changed everything about how I approach tone. The touch sensitivity and dynamics are off the charts!
I’m floored by how different the Murphy Lab sounded.
It’s well known wood selection is different for Murphy Lab
Well done again Jonathan! This was the video I was waiting for, honestly, being a current owner of a light aged ML ‘59 reissue LP and former owner of an R0. I echo your comments on the feel of the ML in the hand. There’s nothing quite like it, honestly. My R0 felt great but played in comparison to the ML which feels alive in the hand and on your chest. Mine rings like a bell. As for the tone, yeah it’s hard to compare two individual guitars as you know and make general conclusions. However, I have played a number of historic reissues and some I liked much more than others. A few I felt were really nice to great in tone and feel and a few were average. On the contrary, when I went to Gibson Garage to check out the ML LPs I felt that every one they handed me (like 10 at least) was fantastic, even if there was some variance from guitar to guitar, as you would expect. I picked my favorite which is an unbelievable guitar that has a difficult to describe crispy woodiness (that’s the best I got, lol) that sounds so rich and organic, like you said. It’s not miles apart from my old R0 (which I ended up selling because of the ML), but it’s definitely different and nothing I’ve heard from an historic. It just sounds so old and much like you hear from the best of the bursts. Interestingly a friend bought a R9 VOS finish after I bought my ‘59 ML and his sounds and feels a little lifeless next to mine. So yes, I think there’s something to the finish! And BTW I think these ML guitars sound every bit a good as most bursts I’ve heard recordings of.
Hey I forgot to mention about the Brazilians. I haven’t played one but I know Todd Anthony Puma (insane collector) has several of them (in addition to a bazillion LP’s, lol) and he’s crazy about them. He thinks the limited Brazilians are definitely a step up from regular ML. LMK if you want to get connected to Todd, if you haven’t already.
Both are great LP's ! To me, the Murphy lab is more vintage/traditional in its looks and tones, the VOS being more modern. Its pickups have a slightly higher output to my ear. I don't think you would obtain a better instrument with the limited brazilian. I've played two, a LP and a Suhr, and I don't think it makes a real difference except for the look and the price. My advice: keep both if you can or just the Murphy lab if you feel more comfortable and inspired with it. Cheers !
The word you're looking for is Resonance. Relic'd guitars, where the finish is worn down to thin or nothing, tend to resonate more than new finish guitars. Like you show here, I have a two 59 reissues, a Murphy heavy relic (7lbs15oz), and a non-relic'd chambered 59 (7lbs6oz). The Murphy resonates more than the chambered LP, which is kind of crazy. But even though the chambered LP is lighter, it has a normal, nitro, non-relic finish, so it's thicker than the Murphy's heavy relic finish with large parts of bare wood peaking through. I love and will keep both guitars, but for resonance, the Murphy wins.
FWIW, I've had the same experience with superstrats. I have several superstrats made by the same company. The relic'd ones resonate more than the ones with normal finishes. And in my personal experience, the more bare wood that coming through the finish, the more the guitar resonates. Your mileage may vary.
As for the brazilian rosewood, it's great, but not measurably better than the indian boards Gibson is using in the CS and the ML. I have a vintage LP with a brazilian board and you'd be hard pressed to see/hear any difference between the fingerboard types. Put another way, there's no way in hell that the brazilian board is worth the $8-10K upcharge Gibson is asking for it. They're doubling the price of the guitar just because of the brazilan board. In your shoe's, I'd MUCH rather have the two LPs you have in your hands than ONE with a brazilian board.
I have 14 CS Les Pauls but I'm still on the hunt! :))) I'am afraid I will always be on the hunt, and maybe that's a great thing. I agree about the Murphy Lab: the one in my hands (2023) sounds more alive too. And it's very lightweight: 3,6 kilos (7.9 lbs), so its tone is not so big. But my favourite is still the same: a 59 LP (2013). Its top is nothing special but it is the Les Paul that sounds better among my standard historics. It's funny cause I had a super nice looking 59 (2020) but I sold it right away cause it sounded too dark.
My impression is that you are going to sell both! And I could be ok with that, cause even if they are both awesome, your playing is great and you deserve to keep on hunting for the best one.
Great video !! Tonally, I think the Murphy sounded a little more 'warm' across the board both high and low. The VOS sounded very slightly 'brighter / aggressive' especially when overdriven. The VOS was a more beautiful finish i.e. deep gloss (which I love) rather than the Murphy, which looked a bit lacklustre and a might shabby in comparison (clearly Murphy achieved their aim). Both were true 'Les Paul-sounding' and excellent IMHO 🙂 My ideal between the two would be the sound of the Murphy with the finish of the VOS. Great playing BTW.
Thanks for the kind words and observations - much appreciated! I heard some subtle but distinct differences as well. Hard to put into words, but also thought the VOS was more aggressive (I hear it in the upper mids).
I have to say the ML sounds smoother and more powerful
Powerful, I mean thicker.
I think it has a strong mid focus/push that gives it more attitude. I hear a bit more of an upper mid thing in the VOS that is also cool, but different.
Two beautiful Les Pauls, both with incredible tone. One of them, however, has rolled fretboard edges and a more “natural” finish. There is your winner. Oh, and any video that involves a Tele is a definite YES for me. Thanks for asking!
Thanks for the comments as always! I’ll put the Tele video on the list!
Thanks for a fascinating comparison. I preferred the sound of the Murphy Labs generally, nicer mids, more body to the sound.
Out of interest, what are the weights of the two guitars?
To my ears the VOS had a little more sparkle and presence - as in your playing was more present - than the Murphy lab. The Murphy lab sounded really balanced and really excellent as well.
I’d say keep them both and maybe have one in a different tuning but that’s probably not feasible 😂
I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on another that would require me to sell both of these, but keeping both would leave me with two complimentary voiced Lester's so we'll have to see!
Even at the risk of repeating myself: the most impressive thing is your soulful playing. As for these two guitars: both sound great! I really don't know if the laquer is responsible for the noticable difference in sound and I am not experienced enough to say that a Brazilian fretboard makes a difference (except in price 🙂). Two factors that are important to me are the shape of the neck and weight. I used to own an R8. A great guitar but I just couldn't handle the big neck. I am not sure if the weight of such a guitar influences its sound but I know that anything beyond 4 kg is uncomfortable to me. Guitars are individuals - so my advice (if you needed any) would be: choose the guitar that you feel most comfortable with, but don't make things like a Brazilian fretboard a point for your decision.
Thanks for the kind words and input as always, Gary! It’s funny, I already found the guitar that I consider “the one” (I.e., perfect weight, feel, tone, look, etc). It’s my Gil Yaron Bone 59. I don’t think I’ll top that guitar with a ML LP, but I love the look of a LP and on the search for one that ticks all the boxes for me. I have a non-Brazilian ML heavy aged incoming that’s seems to rock many of the boxes… let’s see how it sounds and feels!
@@RatherBeRiffing I totally agree with you: I've always loved the LP. Can't wait to see and hear your latest acquisition
@@garyslash7552 should arrive this week. May do an unboxing video to give an interim update while I work on a video on heavy aged vs the light aged.
I’d take either one!
Both guitars sound amazing...I can definitely detect a difference in the high frequencies between the guitars, The Gibson VOS has a bit more high frequencies which can be caused by many things! I must admit that the difference in sound between them is very minor
Thanks! t's those subtle differences that make the hunt for the perfect guitar so much fun!
Both the Murphy lab and the VOS sound very similar. I think the Murphy lab articulates just a tiny bit more. The rolled edges are nice and if that's what makes you feel more comfortable than so be it. The only problem I really see is saying goodbye to the Vos would be like saying goodbye to a very good old friend I don't think I could do that my Les Paul is my best friend. I do have many Les pauls but there is one in particular that I could never get rid of.
Great point! I’ve had the VOS a while and not sure I could really let it go. Something very special would have to come along.
Great video as always! Do you perceive sny differences in the neck carves between the two, or the feel of the neck between the finishes?
The carves do feel a bit different. They were made 5 years apart so I’m. It sure if they tweaked the carve. Seems a tiny less shoulder on the ML and the fingerboard edges are rolled. The finish feels very different. The ML feels old and worn in.
Murphy lab is the winner for me. I used to think the concept of aging a new guitar was so dumb, but really I was dumb lol. I am now a big fan of the ML. I hope to have one some day
That’s cool you were open to a different view on it. Funny how life is like that sometimes!
Man your tones are glorious!
Thank you!
I used to have an opinion, but it's been shaken by my SG. I love the goldtop for its p90s and comfy, fatter neck, and I love the burst for its looks and more agile neck and the 61 burstbuckers are awesome sleeper pickups. But those necks are nothing compared to the 2004 SG Special Faded I found. It's stained not painted, so after 20 years of play wear, the neck feels like a fender custom shop, you know the weirdly lumpy, slick feel of that grime on a custom shop neck, except it's the real thing the custom shop is trying to recreate. But also there was no gloss to wear through, so the arm wear looks like it's way older, and the way this thing rings out. There is this incredibly loud midrange to this guitar acoustically, it's shocking. And with local made scatterwound pickups and a rare fat neck, this SG weighs in at 5.4 pounds. That is not a typo. So it stands to reason the neck dive is nuts, but there's zero -- none -- all the lightweighyness must be in that big fifties neck that feels so wonderfully smooth yet . . . not smooth, in the fastest way possible. This guitar is worth less than a grand, and it blows everything else away. My other four main guitars are each worth at least 3x the SG, but none of them compare to a custom shop. I would take the Pepsi challenge against a custom shop with my sub $1k SG, and win every time. So now I judge every guitar on its own merit, and I don't overlook anything.
I thought the purpose of CS Gibsons was that there are no plasticizers in the finish. The main difference with USA Gibsons was that, hide glue and neck tenons. ML does use a different formula than VOS with sometimes not great results.
Hmm... I'm not 100% actually. You have me wondering too. Maybe someone could chime in.
The ML feels much closer to the finish on my Bartlett Retrospec, which Tom (Bartlett) explicitly markets as no plasticizers. Gibson is a bit more vague with all of this stuff.
Very true, it wouldn’t be the first time Gibson misinformed its customers. I still love my WW 58’ Les Paul no matter the finish. Amazing production and playing as usual!
@@ffbaithank you! WW sure has had some nice specimens over the years!
Lp Murphy Labs de Luxe harmonics
Thanks
I think that is good way to describe the difference!
Yeah this is a tough contest because some VOS lp's sound better than others. Same goes for the ML's.
sounds great. Vos has a lot more attack. more highs and midst. It almost feel like you add a clean boost that has an eq or compression. So from a tone stand point and a feel did the Brazilian have a difference. Was thinking about a prs with Brazilian board.
VOS checks a lot, too. My r9 had lots of checking after a couple of years. A friend of mine has checked his guitar day one with a cool air spray
Oh wow - that’s cool! I didn’t realize they would check (I like the look of it). I’ve had my VOS for 5 years and no checking, but it really hasn’t left the temp/humidity controlled studio much.
@@RatherBeRiffing my 2019 r9 vos has developed checking only horizontally and only on the lower half of the "face". Asking the pickguard, knobs and the pickup rings. But I had recently traded it in for a brand new '68 reissue custom. I've always wanted one and it sounds better than my r9, especially the neck - it has no mud at all - very clear in the whole register. You can try it along your search - it has differently voiced custombuckers, maybe you'll like them, too.
As I've mentioned before, you can get a can of compressed air and easily create a very thin checking if you spray your guitar on a warm day or in a warm room. My friend's guitar looks cool afterwards - the cracks are so thin that you see them only if the light falls on their side. If you look at them along the light they disappear almost completely.
I'm not much into Murphy lab, I think his checking is very random. I think pre Murphy the aging was more sophisticated, but to each his own :)
The Murphy Lab seems to be clearer . The R9 seem slightly muffled to my ears at least
Bernie marsden(RIP) the whitesnake guitarist and owner of the 59 named The Beast played a bunch of modern historic's And the only thing he critiqued on was the finish felt thicker to him than on his old original 59. The Murphy lab solves this with its thinner more true to spec Nitro. Vos is better for someone that wants to keep the guitar new looking without checking and dents and dings.
At the end of the day The latest Murphy labs are the closest you're going to get to a old original unless you are OK with the $25k and higher price and long wait time from a private builder. A used Bartlett is selling for 30k😱a Yaron is even more IF you can even find one for sale. Yaron 59 clones were unbelieable!!!
Agree! I’ve played Yaron’s and Bartlett’s. I believe they are on average a notch above the Murphy Lab stuff. My Yaron Bone 59 is unbelievable and it’s my only guitar I truly believe I will never sell.
First time visitor enjoying your videos. Are you saying for the string buzz you filed the nut and not raised the high end of the saddle a half turn or so? Interesting. The guitars definitely sound different and your sound set up broadcasts the nuances beautifully .. but I don't know that I have a preference. They are both beautiful guitars and you're a lucky dude to have them both to compare.
Thank you for the kind words and glad you are enjoying! I filed the bridge saddle to the proper angle to eliminate the buzz. The sitar type buzz occurs on fretted notes when there the string has too much contact point on the bridge saddle. Worked like a charm!
@@RatherBeRiffing With a tip of the cap to stewmac I'm gad you were able to diagnose and fix that buzz so quickly! The gentleman below and his discourse on finishes was great too ..
VOS is my favorit in all Situations
I think this one is going to have to come down to feel. I did prefer the VOS in some instances and the murphy lab in others. In any case they are much more similar than they are different, sound-wise. I would definitely say keep the Murphy lab because of your experience with it, and I would also suggest grabbing a Yaron or Bartlett 59 replica and compare them!
Thanks for the input! I agree and was surprised how similar they sounded, especially considering they were built 5years apart and have some differences in spec. That would a great comparison (I suspect the boutique guys would still come out on top from my experience).
@@RatherBeRiffing I suspect the same, considering the wood choices the boutique builders use (old growth Honduras Mahogany and Brazilian Rosewood is a hard combo to beat). However it would be interesting to see how they compare!
I couldn’t really discern much about different in the sound, but love the look of the VOS. I’m sure at that price point it’s more about preferences in feel rather than sound. Whatever you do. DON’T play a vintage burst or all others will be ruined. 😂
Oh man it’s on my bucket list to try one but I am afraid of exactly that! 😂😂
I went through this probably two months ago. I played all types of custom shops 58 59, 60s. I played ultra light aged Murphy labs all the way to heavy and I went back to a example vos RO I felt the Murphy labs were brighter they were For sale that old pair of jeans that fit perfect, but just bothered me that I’m spending that much money on a relic guitar that I know over time will increase in aging. But then I found an RO re-issue from the beauty and the burst magazine and A. was the one for me.
Thanks for sharing, Michael - so relatable and glad you found the one! I seem to go through this process when Gibson makes major spec changes (I did in 2013, 2019, and now again with ML). I guess it’s part of the fun to some extent. Good point about the aging. I wonder how they’ll hold up over time. I’ve got a ML heavy aged incoming that I love the look of. Hopefully I connect with the sound and feel so I can let my G.A.S hibernate once again!
@@RatherBeRiffing I think the overall thing is the guitar that inspires the one that you don’t have to worry about or it just fits perfect so allows the artist to come through easier. Not sure a lot of people say I like to fight my guitar sometimes not me. I’m excited to see what you’re gonna do with the telecaster versus the Les Paul
I promise you this, put a set of Kossof Throbak pickups in the 2019 R9 and it will wipe the floor with the ML. If you get the chance to then please do, you won’t be disappointed.
Guys... I swear it!... I got my gas under control!
I'll probably never buy any new guitar ever again! That's AMAZING!!! I FEEL TICKLES IN MY DANGUS!!! 🎉🎉🎉
To my ears it is as if the Murphy Lab has 9's and the VOS has 10's ...likely both have same guage but that to me is the difference...bright , clear, articulate... opposed to stiff, muffled (slightly) ... Curious what you are using for strings
I’m using fresh sets of D’addario 10’s on both. Which one are you hearing as more bright, etc?
The VOS is better spec'd in my opnion. And if it sounds good and feels good, then thats all it is!!
That's all there is too it really!
Interesting, I feel the VOS sound to be more 3d if that makes sense.
Before you said it l was thinking that Murphy lab sounded more "nuanced" ... the R9 is beautiful, just a little less refined sounding.
I'm glad you caught that - the ML seems to have a more vintage/organic quality that I really appreciate.
@@RatherBeRiffing Yeah, its got something. Really good find ... especially sight unseen. Its a keeper.
The ML's are having issues again with flaking, so I'll take the VOS any day of week and save a ton of cash doing it...
They are about $3000-4000 different. That’s it.
The light aged ML is $1k more than the VOS
The delta can get up there with the ultra-heavy aged version.
My My its a deep Rabbit Hole chasing THE tone .. to my ears id keep the WildWood VOS hands down .. in my plight of chasing tone ive found just changing pots from 500k to 550k has made the most difference in my LPs .. also ive found to my ear Tom Doyle PAFs really just hit the mark 100% ,, real oil Bee's or Orange caps im on the fence and use them both in different guitars .. anyway the VOS hands down in my book
Thanks for sharing! It’s a rabbit hole for sure! I’d love to try 550k - any recommendation on make? The Doyle Coils are in my radar as well. What do you like about them?
It’s your imagination LOL. Now, feel is important, and how the neck/fingerboard feels in your hand is more than half the guitar’s value to a player, because playability and sound are the two most important criteria, with aesthetics being the final consideration. Sometimes, the look may positively or negatively affect one’s perceptions of the feel and sound … if you think one guitar is aesthetically superior, that can influence your perception of sound.
Both featured guitars are top shelf choices, and superior to 90+ % of the thousands of guitars on the market. I prefer the more durable finish of your original over the Murphy Lab aged, because it will maintain its beauty over time, and whatever aging it experiences will be organic, rather than artificial.
The best way to choose is to line up the choices, and play each one, blind folded. That way, you will be evaluating the only two points that are actually relevant …. Feel and sound. Find what feels and sounds best to you, and stick with it. Chasing perfection is a fool’s errand, unless you just have too much money, and need to get rid of some.
In a Guitar player’s ideal world, you find a great LP, Strat, and Tele, and you have all of the bases covered. But if you look at the iconic greats, you’ll notice most of them settle in with one primary guitar which becomes their trademark. Stevie Ray and his Strat. Jimi and his Strat. Duane Allman and his Les Paul … Joe Bonamassa and his Les Paul … Eric Clapton, Eric Johnson, Buddy Guy, Gilmore, and the list goes on forever …. every single one of their guitars are connected to them. When you think of Hendrix, you don’t visualize him with a Telecaster in his hands … when you think tele, you think Brent Mason.
The MLab has more mids and a slightly lower end however the VOS has more higher end and sustain or...I have no F'in clue. I will go with the that.
What year is the VOS built?
Ah 2019 60th Anniversary as mine
Yup, great year I think!
The thinner aged nitro has more overtones, better tone and sustain.
Treehouse is good sheit
You know!
We could definitely hear differences, if there are any, if there wasn’t modulation on everything. Kind of ruins the comparison.
completely pointless video and to add to the processed tone..... a murphy is aged there is your difference....
The definitive les paul is not a gibson, look for a replica of a well known luthier, bartlet, carneglia, gil yaron, etc
I agree. I've played several guitars from Barltett and Yaron (own a Retrospect and Bone 59). I do find their builds superior to ML. However, I think the ML stuff is excellent and even more accurate in some details (headstock shape, logo, etc.). I would love to hear a ML with old-growth Honduran and a Brazilian board. They'd probably charge $40k for something like that though.
I add Steve Hague, Dave Santucci, and Vaschenko too
@@mattthrun-nowicki8641haven’t had the pleasure of trying any but have seen some nice examples on the forums.
That chorus that you play in all of your videos is so annoying when you try to demonstrate a guitar. Dude, play the guitar without chorus in order to hear what the actual guitar sounds like ... otherwise it's pointless. You just can't compare sounds with that chorus ...
There is no difference. They are the same guitars. Murphy Labs and Custom Shop VOS are finishing options. They are the same exact guitars underneath.
So one or the other won’t have any effect on the sound.
Hey Johnathan, this has been one of your best videos...I have tried to find direct comparison videos between the LP VoS & ML and there are pretty much non existent. I'm also in the chase to find the perfect LP and I just traded in my Murphy Lab for another one that has a much better top and oh surprise: The high E string buzzed when bending, much more notable in the high register...The culprit was the saddle, I just filed it very lightly and the problem was gone. It took me a couple days to figure it out but what a coincidence you experienced a similar issue with yours! Finally, I hope you can comment on why you wanna buy a Brazilian Rosewood ML...You really think they are better? Why? Thanks! 🤘🏻