in this test the weight and flex changed, would be cool to see you test them individually. Like a 50g shaft in R, S, X - then a 60g shaft in R, S, X - etc. I found I prefer a lighter shaft that's X stiff from a feel & performance perspective.
Correct - it would make more sense to test each variable individually. They can't 100% test flex on its own, because in most cases SOME weight is added as you go up in flex. But perhaps test 50R,50X,70R,70X and compare all (4) would be the quickest test.
Agreed. For a channel that is so analytical, some of their comparison videos really surprise me. Must be a reason behind it whether time, or they want you to go in and see for yourself, but it feels incomplete
Totally agree as what we are missing in fitting is who would benefit from more weight but still softer flex. All the big hitters that need 70 go X flex anyway and that’s what the videos show. Light needs regular. I would like to know if I would do better with heavier but softer. Hopefully they make that video next. 50x 60 s 70 reg
Shaft weight, especially for seniors (like me) is very important. I was testing Ping G430 irons. I'm 75 so the fitter gave me what is considered a "ladies" weight shaft. He was amazed that I was hitting the irons dead straight almost every time. Of course, I don't get a lot of distance now. I'm going back to test one more shaft. If the "ladies" weight is better, I'll order the Ping irons with that shaft weight!
I’m in my 30s, 85mph 7i swing speed, and I play a 50g regular flex shaft (professionally fitted). It allows me to deliver the club head dead on every time. The results were so far ahead and I can still afford to lose some carry distance in favor of spin and ball flight.
As someone who has experimented with shaft weight and flex I've learnt too light is easier to swing but poor accuracy, too heavy regardless of flex is just too much "hard work" towards the end of the round so I'm in the middle. The driver shaft I play in regular is only 2 grams lighter than the stiff, same torque same butt diameter. In this particular shaft model based on this information I could play either flex no problem.
Ian has such a smooth swing but generates so much swing speed, can we get a video on how he does that? It doesn't look like a 112mph swing but it sure is.
I prefer bend profile for better sequence, then weight to flatten the swing. At the end, stiffness controls launch angle. Numbers are numbers and that 70s dispersion is the best I've seen you hit!
Great test. One thing I read a lot is having a 3 wood shaft in a driver. I’ve even seen 3 wood shaft in a 5 wood. I would be interested in your thoughts on whether that actually works.
I’m so glad you all put out this video even though you’ve made similar in the past. I work in a “big box” store but I don’t fit like it at least in my opinion. I always have athletes come in and say that they are a certain flex and only that flex, 80% of the time I can prove them wrong either by changing that or a different weight. Fitting is so multi-dimensional and that’s whats fun about it. Nothing is straight forward and that in and of itself is a great conversation to have during the process. Thank you for bringing this to light so other people can learn from it and use it, either in their work or just for their general knowledge benefit, love the content gents!
I play a Tour AD XC-4 S, tipped 1" and playing at 44.75. In a 10* TSR3 set at 9.25...Absolute Beast. The softer handle and the stiff tip, super stable at 48 grams. It was a game changer for me at 49 years old, still moving it our there in the 270 carry, 290's total area.
Sorry Ian. You have the original Sim driver and not the Sim 2. What convinced you to go back to it with all the other options out there? Thank you for your time. Love your work!
I feel like my irons “swing themselves” but my driver needs help to release the club head. I miss my irons left, and my driver way right. Would a heavier shaft help? Irons have KBS $-Taper 130’s, driver has Mitsubishi Diamana TB 6X Can you make my driver feel like my irons???
Making a request for seniors and ladies with slower swing speed please: would like to see a comparison between different 40g shafts at L, SR and R flex.
As allways, fantastic info, fellas. But, Ian, you understand the swing above and beyond most, I feel you could make a hockey stick work. ;) I think it would be great to see a higher handicap swing and compare the same shafts to your results.
You changed two variables at once. Needs flex and weight changed independent from one another. Unfortunately, that's a pretty lengthy and intense test.
What you obviously do not even know is that in the days before vibration testing (CPM) the way shafts were given flex labels was done solely on weight. Shafts were produced and weighed and the heaviest were called X, the next S and so on.
How do you guys get away with not having the connection adapter in your testing? Every time I've been fit at a CC they've told me they have to kind of guess on swing weight because the adapter adds a few points
Great stuff as always guys! One thing that I would be curious to learn more about is how/whether fatigue is considered in a fitting experience. I often wonder whether I should hit 100+ balls before a fitting to have a better idea what things might look like on days when I walk 18-27 holes or am playing several rounds across a few days. For me in practice, my iron swing doesn't change much, but my 80g 3W/75g D goes from feeling comfortable and controlled to somewhat of a bear to turn over. I'm playing around with a lighter but stiffer class shaft now (attempting to roughly maintain the torque value) assuming that will help, but it's very much speculative.
I'd take more from this that the shaft that was the "right" flex (we know he's X all day long (or stiff stiff)) is the one that performed best. Seeing a 50 M5 and a 70 M3 would have made this test complete.
I noticed your average drive on the sim (at least ones that make the video) is much longer than the Arccos data you looked at in your Arccos video. If I remember right, your average drive was around 280 for Arccos and much longer in the sim. Not hating at all, but curious why that is the case? Wind conditions probably about neutralize out on the course but if you played a lot of cold Canada rounds I feel that could explain it. Thanks
I don't know what Arccos video you are referring to, but in Ian's video "BREAKING PAR CONSISTENTLY On Course Vlog" from May 14 on the Club Champion channel, Ian talks specifically about his on course driver numbers on Hole #4 (about the 8-minute mark) and Hole #9 (about 17:45) and how his on course delivery and launch conditions might vary from indoors in the bay. He was playing with Arccos AND GC Quad on the course in the video. On the course his spin numbers were in the high 2000s (as opposed to low 2000s in the bay typically) and it was also relatively cold (about 45 degrees F) with approximately 10-20 yard winds.
Not arguing what this video shows but a great fitter told me the biggest contribution a shaft makes to a club is the overall weight of the club. Everyone will have a Goldilocks weight class. After that, flex helps more with timing he said. But again this is R, S or X within a weight class not different weights.
Thank you guys, I have a driver fitting appointment next Tuesday at club champion in Syosset NY, not for myself I'm bringing a young kid, 15 years old, he's a tremendous Athlete, amazing how the young kids just pickup a golf swing, they just don't complicate there minds, anyway if anyone had any advice or pointers for him or me about how a younger person might get fitted differnt from an adult , I'd appreciate it, I've been fitted at this location myself a few years back , and I still game that driver the fitter put me in, an F9 Cobras new release that year, idk 5 to 6 years ago with a purple Oban 65gr cut to 44" 3/4,thank God the fitter knew what he was doing ,, because at that piont I really had limited knowledge on getting fitted for a driver,unbelievable club for myself, I gave up zero distance with much better accuracy. Ty again.
Question for Ian. Please give us a rundown on why you went back to the Sim 2. We need (at least I need) an explanation. They are very reasonably priced and might be a huge bargain for us plebs. Thanks again for the great work. You and Mikey are killing it.
Ian, Last thing then I’ll leave you alone. You showed integrity by using an older driver head. We are constantly influenced numerous times a year by the industry that we have to always have the newest gear. You being one of the best, if not the best fitters in the world just went against the grain and told us that ‘newest’ does not mean better. Thank you for your integrity.
Tom Wishon says that for players with early release shaft flex is irrelevant, because the shaft has returned to straight at impact. It only matters for players with a late release. Weight, however, is always important.
Great video! aside from performance, but that 65g shaft was looking really sharp for that driver! One video if you can do it (or if you already did it, whats it called), difference between forged irons and regular metal irons in terms of distance/ball speed/spin etc. Currently i'm gaming the Mizuno JPX EZ-forged irons, and they are super soft, and the reason i love that is because there is little to no vibration and feel from hitting the ball, in the club. But unfortunately my ball distance is lacking. (currently gaming the TP5)
I'm at 95mph ish and play waaaay too stiff according to "conventional wisdom", a tour issue only 70ish gram x-flex tipped 1", and it works on the course where it matters the most, but getting the head weight and playing length right was very important too. I've tried ( and own) reg and stiffs in 50, 60, 70g. Once I started seeing how x flexes actually felt and performed (for me) I stopped worrying about it being wrong. But yeah, my swing is my swing...
I always thought softer shafts would go out to the right because the head of the club trails behind dude to the softness, which then leaves the face wide open causing a big slice..
This club fitting stuff is a joke. I have a GC quad and quite a few shafts and heads. I’ve done the typical 5 shots and have noticed when you bounce between different setups your timing can be off. However do 50 shots of each setup and you get good results. I’ve hit a Ventus red excellent in 5 shots and a tour ad iz fairly badly. However after the initial 10 - 20 shots after alternating the iz was by far the better, I just needed time to adjust
in this test the weight and flex changed, would be cool to see you test them individually. Like a 50g shaft in R, S, X - then a 60g shaft in R, S, X - etc. I found I prefer a lighter shaft that's X stiff from a feel & performance perspective.
+1
Would be great to see Ian do the same weight with the 3 flex options at 112mph 👍🏽
Correct - it would make more sense to test each variable individually. They can't 100% test flex on its own, because in most cases SOME weight is added as you go up in flex. But perhaps test 50R,50X,70R,70X and compare all (4) would be the quickest test.
Flex isn’t uniform across all models and makes. One model’s R can be another model’s S.
I believe they did that with Mikey earlier this year.
Agreed. For a channel that is so analytical, some of their comparison videos really surprise me. Must be a reason behind it whether time, or they want you to go in and see for yourself, but it feels incomplete
To see the influence of weight versus flex, I'd like to see something like a 70R against a 50X and see how it plays out.
I know Ian can’t just swing all day, but I’d be much more curious to see the inverse of this - lighter but stiffer; heavier but softer. 50X, 60S, 70R.
I’ve always had better luck with heavier but softer
Totally agree as what we are missing in fitting is who would benefit from more weight but still softer flex. All the big hitters that need 70 go X flex anyway and that’s what the videos show. Light needs regular. I would like to know if I would do better with heavier but softer. Hopefully they make that video next. 50x 60 s 70 reg
what i found is that light x flew for me are just a straight dead pull, and the heavy soft is more of a better straight shaft line, but a little fade
Bingo. This is the vid we need.
70 S vs 50 X
You guys continue to demonstrate that not all Club Champions are the same!
Shaft weight, especially for seniors (like me) is very important. I was testing Ping G430 irons. I'm 75 so the fitter gave me what is considered a "ladies" weight shaft. He was amazed that I was hitting the irons dead straight almost every time. Of course, I don't get a lot of distance now. I'm going back to test one more shaft. If the "ladies" weight is better, I'll order the Ping irons with that shaft weight!
I’m in my 30s, 85mph 7i swing speed, and I play a 50g regular flex shaft (professionally fitted). It allows me to deliver the club head dead on every time. The results were so far ahead and I can still afford to lose some carry distance in favor of spin and ball flight.
I was fitted with my iron just recently, my swing speed is for s-flex but the fitter noticed that I’m more comfortable with the regular.
As someone who has experimented with shaft weight and flex I've learnt too light is easier to swing but poor accuracy, too heavy regardless of flex is just too much "hard work" towards the end of the round so I'm in the middle. The driver shaft I play in regular is only 2 grams lighter than the stiff, same torque same butt diameter. In this particular shaft model based on this information I could play either flex no problem.
funny. had a fitting and fitter said I should stick with my SIM Max. can’t beat it. changed shaft though.
This test would make more sense if you chose different flexes within each weight category
Ian has such a smooth swing but generates so much swing speed, can we get a video on how he does that? It doesn't look like a 112mph swing but it sure is.
Legs and hands. Legs are the power generator, hands are the multiplier.
I prefer bend profile for better sequence, then weight to flatten the swing. At the end, stiffness controls launch angle.
Numbers are numbers and that 70s dispersion is the best I've seen you hit!
very intersting results... most fitters have givne me 60 stiff for driver, but my 4wood is 55 reg...
Great test. One thing I read a lot is having a 3 wood shaft in a driver. I’ve even seen 3 wood shaft in a 5 wood. I would be interested in your thoughts on whether that actually works.
3 wood shaft in a 5 wood? You mean length? You'd have to finagle the swing weight on that somehow....
You would have to change the swingweight to match the new headweight, not just plug and play.
I’m so glad you all put out this video even though you’ve made similar in the past. I work in a “big box” store but I don’t fit like it at least in my opinion. I always have athletes come in and say that they are a certain flex and only that flex, 80% of the time I can prove them wrong either by changing that or a different weight. Fitting is so multi-dimensional and that’s whats fun about it. Nothing is straight forward and that in and of itself is a great conversation to have during the process. Thank you for bringing this to light so other people can learn from it and use it, either in their work or just for their general knowledge benefit, love the content gents!
I was really surprised by switching to a 70 gram driver shaft in the same flex really got me to find the middle!!
I play a Tour AD XC-4 S, tipped 1" and playing at 44.75. In a 10* TSR3 set at 9.25...Absolute Beast. The softer handle and the stiff tip, super stable at 48 grams. It was a game changer for me at 49 years old, still moving it our there in the 270 carry, 290's total area.
I have just got a Taylormade QI10 Max and put a slightly heavier regular shaft in(Ventus Blue) and it feels super after super light shafts
6:04 PAPRIKA?!?! 🤣😂🤣…. I snort laughed… the reference went WAY over his head lol
Had no idea
Would be great to see a test on iron shafts 😊
Sorry Ian. You have the original Sim driver and not the Sim 2. What convinced you to go back to it with all the other options out there? Thank you for your time. Love your work!
I feel like my irons “swing themselves” but my driver needs help to release the club head. I miss my irons left, and my driver way right. Would a heavier shaft help? Irons have KBS $-Taper 130’s, driver has Mitsubishi Diamana TB 6X
Can you make my driver feel like my irons???
Making a request for seniors and ladies with slower swing speed please: would like to see a comparison between different 40g shafts at L, SR and R flex.
Mid weight shaft in a variety of flexes needed gents....
As allways, fantastic info, fellas. But, Ian, you understand the swing above and beyond most, I feel you could make a hockey stick work. ;) I think it would be great to see a higher handicap swing and compare the same shafts to your results.
You changed two variables at once. Needs flex and weight changed independent from one another. Unfortunately, that's a pretty lengthy and intense test.
What about a 75 regular, a 65 stiff, and a 55 X? This is more along the lines Id like to see
So the 70g is discarded because you maybe tired on hole 18 - ignoring the previous excellent 13 drives.
Interested to see that in a less premium shaft maybe. See if say, a made for shaft in those 3 specs, came out much different.
Would be curious to see this same test comparing like S400/X100 to LA Golf or Axiom iron shafts
What you obviously do not even know is that in the days before vibration testing (CPM) the way shafts were given flex labels was done solely on weight. Shafts were produced and weighed and the heaviest were called X, the next S and so on.
Sound of OG SIM so good
How do you guys get away with not having the connection adapter in your testing? Every time I've been fit at a CC they've told me they have to kind of guess on swing weight because the adapter adds a few points
Nobody is mentioning that the Spice Girls question went right over Mikey’s head and Ian never corrected him
TIL: Im a baby spice for golf fitting 😂
I feel as if different weights same flex or different flex same weight would have been a better test for this video
Great stuff as always guys! One thing that I would be curious to learn more about is how/whether fatigue is considered in a fitting experience. I often wonder whether I should hit 100+ balls before a fitting to have a better idea what things might look like on days when I walk 18-27 holes or am playing several rounds across a few days.
For me in practice, my iron swing doesn't change much, but my 80g 3W/75g D goes from feeling comfortable and controlled to somewhat of a bear to turn over. I'm playing around with a lighter but stiffer class shaft now (attempting to roughly maintain the torque value) assuming that will help, but it's very much speculative.
I'd take more from this that the shaft that was the "right" flex (we know he's X all day long (or stiff stiff)) is the one that performed best. Seeing a 50 M5 and a 70 M3 would have made this test complete.
I noticed your average drive on the sim (at least ones that make the video) is much longer than the Arccos data you looked at in your Arccos video. If I remember right, your average drive was around 280 for Arccos and much longer in the sim.
Not hating at all, but curious why that is the case? Wind conditions probably about neutralize out on the course but if you played a lot of cold Canada rounds I feel that could explain it. Thanks
look at the spin numbers.
Arccos doesn’t show spin, that’s an impossible comparison
I don't know what Arccos video you are referring to, but in Ian's video "BREAKING PAR CONSISTENTLY On Course Vlog" from May 14 on the Club Champion channel, Ian talks specifically about his on course driver numbers on Hole #4 (about the 8-minute mark) and Hole #9 (about 17:45) and how his on course delivery and launch conditions might vary from indoors in the bay. He was playing with Arccos AND GC Quad on the course in the video. On the course his spin numbers were in the high 2000s (as opposed to low 2000s in the bay typically) and it was also relatively cold (about 45 degrees F) with approximately 10-20 yard winds.
Clubhead speed got slightly faster with the heavier shaft and seemed to time it better
This test didn't distinguish flex from weight. Better test would be 50 M5 vs 65 M3
Not arguing what this video shows but a great fitter told me the biggest contribution a shaft makes to a club is the overall weight of the club. Everyone will have a Goldilocks weight class. After that, flex helps more with timing he said. But again this is R, S or X within a weight class not different weights.
I hope you’re at the Canadian Open Ian shouting on our Bob 🏴👍🏴🏴
Thank you guys, I have a driver fitting appointment next Tuesday at club champion in Syosset NY, not for myself I'm bringing a young kid, 15 years old, he's a tremendous Athlete, amazing how the young kids just pickup a golf swing, they just don't complicate there minds, anyway if anyone had any advice or pointers for him or me about how a younger person might get fitted differnt from an adult , I'd appreciate it, I've been fitted at this location myself a few years back , and I still game that driver the fitter put me in, an F9 Cobras new release that year, idk 5 to 6 years ago with a purple Oban 65gr cut to 44" 3/4,thank God the fitter knew what he was doing ,, because at that piont I really had limited knowledge on getting fitted for a driver,unbelievable club for myself, I gave up zero distance with much better accuracy. Ty again.
Ian why are you using the Sim driver?
Question for Ian. Please give us a rundown on why you went back to the Sim 2. We need (at least I need) an explanation. They are very reasonably priced and might be a huge bargain for us plebs. Thanks again for the great work. You and Mikey are killing it.
doesn't a heavier weight help counterbalance though?
Not necessarily.
@@ianfrasergolf interesting, I would have thought heavier shaft would make the club head feel lighter. huh
Ian,
Last thing then I’ll leave you alone. You showed integrity by using an older driver head. We are constantly influenced numerous times a year by the industry that we have to always have the newest gear. You being one of the best, if not the best fitters in the world just went against the grain and told us that ‘newest’ does not mean better. Thank you for your integrity.
Tom Wishon says that for players with early release shaft flex is irrelevant, because the shaft has returned to straight at impact. It only matters for players with a late release. Weight, however, is always important.
I’m from South Carolina I’d love to get a driver fitting from u. Never had a fitting
why is Ian using a SIM head?
Driver of the week, it will change again soon (i.e., after he loses a couple of balls on the left side bushes or hits a couple of floaty fades).
Oh they said its his gamer rn
Because the original SIM is still better than most drivers sold today
@@NathanNelson-l3myup, gamer of the week 😂😂😂
Yes, is his gamer. Yep.
Paprika.... 😂 Was Mikey born when the Spice Girls were about. ⛳😂 Great vid.
2:09 caught ya
Great video! aside from performance, but that 65g shaft was looking really sharp for that driver! One video if you can do it (or if you already did it, whats it called), difference between forged irons and regular metal irons in terms of distance/ball speed/spin etc. Currently i'm gaming the Mizuno JPX EZ-forged irons, and they are super soft, and the reason i love that is because there is little to no vibration and feel from hitting the ball, in the club. But unfortunately my ball distance is lacking. (currently gaming the TP5)
Will mythbusters be a new series?
I'm at 95mph ish and play waaaay too stiff according to "conventional wisdom", a tour issue only 70ish gram x-flex tipped 1", and it works on the course where it matters the most, but getting the head weight and playing length right was very important too. I've tried ( and own) reg and stiffs in 50, 60, 70g. Once I started seeing how x flexes actually felt and performed (for me) I stopped worrying about it being wrong. But yeah, my swing is my swing...
it's about what works best for you. Leave the ego at the door when you get fit and the results will speak for themselves.
It would seem the Ventus is only shaft anyone needs. Lol
I always thought softer shafts would go out to the right because the head of the club trails behind dude to the softness, which then leaves the face wide open causing a big slice..
Who slashed Mikey or did he do that to himself - dull yin !
Spice Girls reference clearly escaped Mikey! Generational difference! 😂😂
Don’t care shaft , I still slice.
Maybe try a heavier shaft with softer flex mid kick profile.
Or try some lessons my baw
Spice girl joke went way over Mikeys head 😂🤦♂️
😂😂😂
The spice girls reference went straight over his head haha
Ok. What is that small planet on Mikeys face 😐
Baby face fun Mike gotta address the elephant in the room(or on his face) immediately. That shocked me
Wth is next to his lip?! 👀🦠😷
I wished that ALL fitters had the knowledge/ability to do what you guys do! 🏌️♂️
When did Mikey get herpes?
This club fitting stuff is a joke. I have a GC quad and quite a few shafts and heads. I’ve done the typical 5 shots and have noticed when you bounce between different setups your timing can be off. However do 50 shots of each setup and you get good results.
I’ve hit a Ventus red excellent in 5 shots and a tour ad iz fairly badly. However after the initial 10 - 20 shots after alternating the iz was by far the better, I just needed time to adjust